From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 14 10:55:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13537 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:55:36 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20139 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:01:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:01:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199705141501.KAA20139@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #169 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 169 In this digest: Re: IN> Impudite Imbalance? Re: IN> various in-nomine questions Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> various in-nomine questions IN> Words and changing sides Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> the law of threes... Re: IN> More ramblings about smoking/disturbance... Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Revelations Cycle Re: IN> Impudite Imbalance? Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> More ramblings about smoking/disturbance... IN> Sharing Roles Re: IN> Malakim Honour Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Revelations Cycle IN> Greetings.. Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances IN> Superiors... Re: IN> Greetings.. Re: IN> Sharing Identities IN> Impudite Imbalance? Re: IN> Greetings.. Re: IN> Sharing Roles Re: IN> Re: How might the fall have happened? Re: IN> Stupid musical question Re: IN> the law of threes... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:24:29 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Impudite Imbalance? > Essence is a *very* valuable commodity to a Celestial, so the ability to > siphon it out of other beings is a powerful ability indeed -- and should > therefore come with significant risk. The numbers you quote are, in my > mind, a perfect example of why an Impudite should not attempt to use his > resonance on Celestials unless he *has* to. Humans are easier targets, and > there seem to be plenty of them milling about... That would be fine if angels and demons could actually identify each other by sight....... Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:23:18 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> various in-nomine questions Catching up on the lag here, sorry if these seem out of the blue, Scott Turnbull wrote: > > 1) Actions within a round seem to be resolved simultaneously > > however they are declared from higher stat down which seems to > > put the people with higher stats at a disadvantage. Is this > > the way it works? > > The way it's been put to me by the good IN netrep folks here is > that Actions are not simultaneous, only damage resolution. > [snip] I ... go with a round initiative/action system where > declarations are made slowest to fastest charters, then resolved > fastest to slowest. Several systems use this type of system, the > only one I can recall off hand is Star Wars so you could ask > players of that game if it works for them. It works reasonably well (from a GMs point of view), except that there's problems in determining ahead of time how an NPC is going to react/respond. Too much to track in a large combat. Star Wars also works by resolving damage as it happens, like CP 2020. If the other guy gets a shot off first and your character goes down, that's it for you; you don't get to respond unless the actions happened simultaneously. If you make the one change, I'd suggest that you add this too. ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:42:34 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality > My general impression from Moriah and John Karakash is that officially, > human belief has no immediate effect on reality. In Nomine is not Mage: > the Ascension. > > My *personal* feeling is that belief effects spirits, but in very subtle > ways. More to the point, worship and the Essence it generates affects > spirits. Spirits are "tainted" by the type of Essence they absorb and it > slowly changes them over time. This is especially true of Ethereal > spirits and pagan gods, but may apply to Hell or even Heaven as well. > > There is a feed-back loop here as well: spirits also encourage those > sorts of activities and worship that feeds their Word. This reinforces a > spirit's nature. Sudden shifts in human culture can throw things out of > whack, though, leaving spirits scrambling for new energy and forcing them > to change because of it. It is equally true that spirits can force > change in humans as well, shaping them more to the spirits' liking. > Neither side - either spiritual or physical - dominates. Rather, they > interact in complex and dynamic ways. Good call, from my point of view. Human belief does not affect greater reality, but it can affect local reality. > Hell and Ethereal spirits certainly gather Essence to use in their > schemes. Both have other sources of Essence, but humanity is a big and > important well of energy. What Heaven does with the Essence that it > theoretically gathers is an open question. Heaven isn't obviously mining > humanity for power the way Hell is, but it may be doing the same thing on > a more subtle level. There is a great danger for an angel on earth to miss the forest for the trees. The energy humans can give is secondary to the human soul itself (and the whole world on top of that). An angel who forgets that humans are important in and of themselves rather than for the energy they can give, is perilously close to Falling. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:46:26 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> various in-nomine questions > > Murphy's Rules is a standard feature in Pyramid -- four little > gems, every month... > > I wonder if they're going to do the "games that should not > be played" version at some point? If so, I cast my vote for > Karakash's INWO: In Nomine World Order. If it hasn't shown up > already. I'm braindead enough today it might have and I'd forgotten. > O:< Heh. The Grigori in my campaign are the world's oldest secret conspiracy. You see, it'd take a lot of skill to remain hidden from Heaven and Hell... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 97 20:12:03 PDT From: Christopher Paul Subject: IN> Words and changing sides OK, this is boosted from another thread, but I find it engaging enough to pull from the weave: 1) What is the relationship between celestials, their words, the symphony, and which side they are on? 2) When an Angel is cast out (but doesn't fall) do they lose their word? (This one is actually important to me, as I can think of some pretty cool senarios involving word-bound outcasts). It is pretty clear that words have as much affect on their celestials as the celestial does on the word. It is also clear that celstials with the same word from different sides are either going to hate each other for their mutual misinterpretation, or be pals because they have a compatable interpretation. It seems logical that a word would be lost in falling, not because it is taken away, but because it is betrayed and the metaphysics of falling strip it away. Alternatively, it seems eminently possible that supporting one's word might LEAD to falling, in which case it is less likely to depart. Further, it seems more likely that a word which might lead one to dissonance would only lead to dissonance from a supperior, not personal "essential" choir dissonance, which makes falling after becomming outcast less likely. For example, the Angel of Irish Liberation, whether he works for Michael or Laurence, might have run afoul of their supperior without betraying their nature or the angelic side of their word. The way I understand it, an Angel can only fall through the betrayal of their angelic nature as laid down by their Choir's reasonance, or through an act of Will. If a word-bound angel did manage to fall and keep their word, Lucifer might well leave it to them, both as a lasting reminder of the power of corruption, and because a celestial who has had a word is more experienced in matters dealing with that word, both naturally and selfishly. Your thoughts? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality > >1. Do pagan gods (or other spirits, Ethereal or otherwise) ever > >regenerate essence automatically, the way angels/demons/humans do at > >sunrise/sunset/noon? > > The book actually says they do (I think it's midnight for them). Well, that's what I get for posting from work, and not having the book handy. :) > I've been thinking that Rites probably benefit the Rite-giver with > Essence, as well as the performer ("one for me, one for you"). This > would easily explain a number of things, including why AAs/DPs give > Rites, why a Redeemed celestial can still use old Rites (but it's *very* > frowned upon), and why AAs/DPs have so much power to throw around. That makes a lot of sense, and further explains why using some other AA's Rites can annoy your Superior. It also implies that completely alienating your Servitors isn't a good career move for an AA/DP... - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:57:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality On Tue, 13 May 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > There is a great danger for an angel on earth to miss the > forest for the trees. The energy humans can give is secondary > to the human soul itself (and the whole world on top of that). An > angel who forgets that humans are important in and of themselves > rather than for the energy they can give, is perilously close to > Falling. Ah, but a demon would say that Heaven is just as concerned with the "trees" as Hell is. That the whole point of elevating humanity is so that Heaven can collect as many souls, and their energy, as possible. They may dress it up in pretty terms like "Salvation", but in the end, Heaven is playing the same game as Hell from a slightly different angle. Since no one *really* know what's going on in the upper reaches of Heaven where human souls go, the demons could even be right... On the other hand, angels that listen to demons tend to have problems as well. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:37:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> the law of threes... In a message dated 97-05-13 20:10:25 EDT, you write: << Somehow, I think Eris and Lilith are too much alike to get along. Earl >> Personally, I think Lilith and *Marc* are too much alike to *not* get along... ;-) - -Calabim@Aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 97 01:46:45 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> More ramblings about smoking/disturbance... On Tue, 13 May 1997 09:46:09 +0100 said: > >>From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" > >In my adventure (this actually happens) this would be considered the >same as if the celestial created say a firearm: > >a) If he/she creates the firearm but nothing is done with it and it is >destroyed then there is no disturbance. Agreed. The mere fact that a celestial has something which potentially can cause disturbance is no more disturibing than simply being there. Just becuase I'm holding an instrument doesn't make me disturb the music. >b) If he/she creates the firearm and uses it then there is a >disturbance in proportion to the effect. Whether (s)he created it or not, the disturbance would be there. Perhaps it might be even slightly greater if done with a celestial as opposed to corporeal creation. >c) If a human creates the weapon and the celestial uses it again, a >disturbance. Ditto >>What if a human wrote the virus, but the >>celestial planted it in a key location? I would think this falls under case c above, but I agree with your point for a case d below, where a celestial provides a human with a weapon of mass destruction. The human used the weapon. It's part of the symphony. > >This is the clincher. I'm hesitant to say what would happen but if >forced to I'd be inclined to say that it wouldn't cause a great >disturbance. Human's have free will it would eventually be up to a >human whether to or whether not to use the virus/weapon. > >Naveed -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality > >1. Do pagan gods (or other spirits, Ethereal or otherwise) ever > >regenerate essence automatically, the way angels/demons/humans do at > >sunrise/sunset/noon? > > The book actually says they do (I think it's midnight for them). Well, that's what I get for posting from work, and not having the book handy. :) > I've been thinking that Rites probably benefit the Rite-giver with > Essence, as well as the performer ("one for me, one for you"). This > would easily explain a number of things, including why AAs/DPs give > Rites, why a Redeemed celestial can still use old Rites (but it's *very* > frowned upon), and why AAs/DPs have so much power to throw around. That makes a lot of sense, and further explains why using some other AA's Rites can annoy your Superior. It also implies that completely alienating your Servitors isn't a good career move for an AA/DP... - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 97 02:13:44 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> Revelations Cycle Re: timelines and scheduling: I have to agree with John/SJ on this issue: The Gaming industry as a whole is absolutely notorious about time schedules (almost worse than the software industry) for the simple reason that it is very hard to judge how long it will take to write something. There are zillions of little details for Senior Line Editors to take care of before we get our printed copy. I would rather see vague ideas about whats being worked on followed by a concrete date that the product will be in stores by, perhaps a few weeks in advance, then 4-8 dates changing weekly as the publisher realizes how off their guesses were. The only way to meet a deadline is to have the project done before you set a deadline. -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 97 02:00:48 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> Impudite Imbalance? On Tue, 13 May 1997 08:09:30 -0500 (CDT) Donald G Bixler said: > I was just reviewing some of the resonance mechanics, and >couldn't help but notice that Impudites seem to have a harder time using >their innate abilities than everyone else, demon or angel. [snip discussion of mechanics] > This seems rather imbalanced to me. Any counterpoints, suggested >house rules, or explanations? > > Indeed, you've shown pretty clearly that its a lot harder for an Impudite to get anywhere when using his resonance on other celestials. However, let's look at the plus sides of the incredible ability of the Impudites: 1) there is a limitless supply of humans, which equals out to a limitless supply of essence (not really, as any impudite will point out quickly, but essence is life in the celestial war, and being able to get more faster is huge.) 2) if an impudite is succesful on a celestial: the impudite has become stronger, his opponent has become weaker, and his opponent is not even aware of the attack. 3) This is the only way I can think of for a celestial to lose essence against their will. -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 97 02:17:37 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> Roles In regards to how roles mask disturbance in the symphony, consider the following metaphores: Everything in Existance plays in the symphony. The "real world" is harmonious. It forms the basis of the symphony. It is the main theme of the symphony, the refrain perhaps. Within this symphony, there are players, celestials, who all have a part of the syphony. Usually, the celestials play small notes, notes which blend in, perhaps "backup" to a humans theme, but, they do not change the melody of the symphony. Their notes "blend in". Then, a celestial causes disturbance. A quiet theme suddenly becomes loud, and echoes through other instruments. Some may become silent, in truly powerful disturbances a new theme, a dissonant chord is struck, and may play itself out, rivaling the music around it. A "role" is the type of music a celestial normally plays in the symphony. This is "their part," their notes on the score. Usually, as with all celestial music, these notes are quiet and hidden. Sometimes, however, they become loud, leading themes, even commanding part of the melody. However, these notes are not dissonant. They are loud, but no one hears them because no one can single them out. They are simply a part of the music. Disturbance is always there. But, sometimes, even loud noises aren't heard. -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 97 01:54:20 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> More ramblings about smoking/disturbance... On Tue, 13 May 1997 09:00:09 -0400 John Karakash - Lucent ASCC said: > > If an angel knocks down a tree in the woods with no one >to hear does it make Noise? ;) >~In answer, yes. The trick is that _everything_ in the... Mimes are exempted from this. They are not part of the symphony :) >> Can a celestial cause disturbance while Ethereal/Dream Walking? > > I'd say no unless something was damaged in the process. Ah, but what is damage? Is causing a nightmare (moving a human from one side of the Marches to the other, for example) damage? Can you damage a dream? How many ethereal hits does it take... :) > >> in the world of computers? Can a celestial write a virus to take down >> international computer networks? What if a human wrote the virus, but the >> celestial planted it in a key location? This would seem like a great >activity >> for a demon of technology to be doing. Does it cause disturbance? >> If it does, where (computer networks are not very centralized...) > > I'm still iffy about whether crashing a computer is 'harming' >it for the purpose of Disturbance. I'm leaning toward no at the >moment. Not to try to cheese my way out of an answer, but this may >very well be a GM's call. What's being destroyed? Information. >How much Body does information have? ;) > > Or should Information have soul hits... Well, only if its Deep Blue I guess... (I know, the servitors of Kobal were fooling with the chess computer, that's why it won...) -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:39:53 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Sharing Roles Dear List the "Sharing Identities" thread prompted me to consider something slightly related, Sharing Roles. Example. Dominic has an angel in the City operating under a very light Role (level 1 or 2). He decides that he wants the angel somewhere else, and as the Role is not that well tied to anything the angel just walks away. That angel gets tied down somewhere, but Dominic finds he needs someone to play the Role back in the City. Can he just _give_ the Role to another angel for a while. "On this mission your name is John Green and you are a Private Detective from New Orleans, all usual documentation will be supplied." Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:49:04 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Honour Dear Leath, Walt and David (and List) wow, you all sound like you know Bob Personally. I agree I would have to be pretty hard on anyone who tried this too, and I like Leath's suggestion best. Another thing about Malakim, how pervasive is their conviction that everyone follows their personal Code of Honour, as stated on page 100. Example. Characters have been tracking some badguys and have found their base. They gather to plan their attack. "Who can get us weapons?" asks one character. "I can" says the Malakim and everyone goes on to other things. Night of the assault turns up and the group assembles and are offered a selection of fine swords and axes. Every one looks at the Malakim who exclaims slightly hurt and surprised "What you don't use guns do you??" Would a Malakim who had an oath against seeking medical aid before a combat was finished not realise he should assist an ally. "You wanted me to do what??" Thanking you for your indugence. Yours Peter Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 03:30:38 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Well, here's take on the whole essence/reality/muck-thing. (This non-canon, btw) Okay, first of all, I assume that good old God and his pal Lucy(Fur) are on teh damn side. Yeah, really. Angels test humanity's strengths and demons test humanity's weaknesses. Now, you ask any demon, angels, even Lucy and I'm sure you'd be bound to get a different answer. Of course keep in mind that Lucy is sure to be lying through his pointly little teeth... It's been said that there was a scuffle in heaven because after God created humanity and he told His angles (or whatever) that they were to serve human-kind, about a 7/18 of the angles (hell, let's call it a third of the darn things) said "No way, Jose!" and sauntered vaguely downward. God, as He love everyone, still loved the darn things. Hell, he made 'em in the first place. So, he gave them a plot of land they could live on and call home, or Hell, or whatever they wanted to call it, and then called little ol' Lucy over to His side, tucked him close. Lucy, familiar with the old "let-me-pretend-to-whisper-something-in-your-ear-so-I-can-put-you- in-a-headlock-and-give-you-a-nouge-you-won't-evert-forget" trick, pushed himself away from God a little more, aiming to gain some space in the relationship as well. God smiled, He's a "forgiving", "loving" God and as an experienced parent of EVERYTHING IN EXISTANCE he had a lot of patience when his children wanted a little distance. God cut Lucifer a little deal. He said "Ok, so here's the deal. You all over in..." "Hell," Lucy said. "Yes, Hell. You all can do whatever you like." "Really?" queried Lucy? "Really." Well, Lucy felt that somehow he was getting the shaft. He wasn't quite sure what it was, but he was sure God was up to something. So, he gathered up a whole bunch of his nastiest, most terrible, demons and went to heaven to throw a party. A war party that is. Hell invaded heaven, the inhabitants of heaven were more than a little annoyed. Heaven is their home, and the home of God, they assumed. But why didn't God just pull as Dues ex machina (or whatever) and sent the blimey bastards back to hell where they "belonged"? Now, in the old days before the creation of the human race, God used to hang out a lot with the angels in heaven (this is, of course, before a 7/18 of them left). But, He had grown tired with hanging out with a bunch of being which he had created and whose existance was powered by his LOVE. See, that's kinda like what essence is, love. The love of God, or rather God's love for all that he had made. That's why God made humanity. He made human beings, each with a little bit of his love. He also gave human beings "free will", and the ability to gain essence at specific times during the cycle of the hunk of rock they floated on in "space", perhaps the space in His sock drawer, perhaps the space between His toes, no one knows. But Him. Point is, with the creation of human beings who had free will, but NO freaking clue as to what the heck was going on, there created the possibility to not having to love God anymore. The angels, all of whom had been God's pals because not only had he created them to love him, but also because He was the only one who supplied them with essence (THE POWER OF LOVE), now had an opportunity to get their fuel from somewhere else: the stupid humans! So, essence does not come from humans, it comes from God. All the essence fallen angels use and need (they are still angels, however twisted) comes ultimately from God, even if it has been taken in a round-about way. What does this mean? Well, all essence comes from God, and once spent it is re-released in the cosmos (the hair of God, I'm guessing) and goes back to Him. He gives it all and gets it all back in the end. Not a bad deal. Plus, because now the angels now have to make the choice to love Him, making use of their free will, God knows who his true friends are. That's the cool thing about being human. Ever notice how all those good little humans who love God and all that, who consider God to be a friend and companion, tend to zip on up to the upper reaches of heaven? Well, that's because they have been chosen by God to hang out with Him. Hey, what's cooler than hanging out with the Big Man God, eh? I don't know, man, I don't know. Now the fallen ones have really gotten themselves into a pickle. See, since God is reflected in all that is GOOD to love love things which are GOOD is to love GOD (yeah! it's a spelling error, go humans! GOOD AND GOD are the same bloodly thing!), then the only way to prove that you don't need His love, and that you are a strong, independent angel who doesn't need any of that God-crap, is to to do EVIL, D.EVIL.ISH things. Hmmm... DEVIL, DO EVIL.... hmmm.... Doing good shows that you love God, doing evil "proves" that you don't need God's stupid love anyway. Of course, they still do, they just get in through channels which are distanced enough from God that they can pretend that it doesn't *really* come from Him. Stupid God, He's so overbearing. Why can't He just leave us Demons alone? We can take care of ourselves, really we can! So... what about God and why isn't he hanging around. I bet He and Eli are playing some prancy-fancy game they make up as they go along. As for Lucy? He's still sore about being "tricked" into moving into an house with a bunch of his friends. He may have a hearth, but it's not quite the same as God's... Acutally, I think that God and Lucy still get along, in that parent, distant child "we-respect-each-other-at-a-distance" way. Lucy isstill trying to piss of God, however. Why? Why did you try to piss off your parents? How did you try to piss off your parents. Maybe, just maybe Lucy is testing God to see how much He love "the bringer of light". I just hope God notices the mess Lucy is making. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:52:42 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Revelations Cycle John Karakash proclaimeth that:- > > On May 13, 2:52pm, David.Evans wrote: [snip most of grumble about lateness of release of Night Music...] > > Better late than never... but can > > anybody tell me roughly (or possibly even exactly?) *when* in June? > > Also, if Night Music is out in June, will The Marches till be coming out > > in June, too? Moriah? Mr Karakash? Steve? Anyone??? > > Official Policy: No one says a word until the Big Cheese > (hiya Steve!) gives a date. Well, that makes sense I suppose. > It'll be on the Daily Illuminator > as fast as anyone knows for certain. Steve got enough flack about > the lateness of IN that he is being cautious about other schedules. > Erm, fairy-nuff (who lives at the bottom of the garden :) Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 07:31:21 -0400 From: Steve Syrek Subject: IN> Greetings.. Hello, just bought In Nomine (even after waiting 3 years!!) and just joined the list. After reading through the book (though not all of it yet) I was wondering why the archangel Gabriel is used in the game (and in female form for some reason) as well as the archangel Michael, but the archangels Raphael and Uriel are not. I point out these few because they are, as far as I know, the only biblical angels (though not all are mentioned in the Bible, they are in the Book of Enoch). I know SJG pulled from a great many resources to create In Nomine and altered things to suit the game, but Raphael and Uriel would seem to me to be quite important and as well suited as any angels to be in the game. Heck, they've already been created, might as well use them. Are they being used in a future supplement perhaps? Are they just not going to be part of the In Nomine world? That's all I was curious about. Thanks for a great game and for the opportunity to post on this list. Anyone who can't give an official answer to this is welcome to theorize :) Oh yeah, I just heard that The Prophecy II is in the works! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven J. Syrek -- http://people.delphi.com/syrek -- ssyrek@mail.idt.net * * TV Guide Entertainment Network Sysop -- http://www.tvguide.com * * - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:51:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Emord Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances > My thinking is generally that unless the disturbance gets to the level > where high perception lookouts hear it, the chances of a wandering > celestial hearing it are virtually nil. IOW, unless there's a story reason > for an enemy celestial to be in the vicinity, the GM doesn't have an excuse > to drop a random enemy in. > This is a good point, but I for one know that if I didn't exploit the noise factor, and the sheer fact that someone DOES hear it more often than not, that my characters would soon be doing very LOUD things with no remorse, I think that keeping players on their toes by allowing a little bit of the old 'random encounter' based upon how noisy they are... but this is my view... Brian Emord - --* BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- GCS/E d+>++ s+:+ a? C+++(++++)$ UBLAHS++$ P+++$ L++ E+ W++ N o K++ w O++ M-->--- V-- PS(++) PE(+)(-) Y+ PGP- t+@ 5+@ X R+(+++)* tv- b++>+++ DI+++$ D G++ e(*)>++++ h+(*) r++>+++ y+ - --* END GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 07:15:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Emord Subject: IN> Superiors... I have a little question about superiors (AA/DP): If a superior falls or becomes bright, do his followers suddenly lose all their superior based attunements? How do they (the followers) compensate for the loss? I realize this is similar to the Eli dilema, but he didn't fall, he isn't still a visable figure in the War... Well, just something that came up at a game once... Brian Emord - --* BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- GCS/E d+>++ s+:+ a? C+++(++++)$ UBLAHS++$ P+++$ L++ E+ W++ N o K++ w O++ M-->--- V-- PS(++) PE(+)(-) Y+ PGP- t+@ 5+@ X R+(+++)* tv- b++>+++ DI+++$ D G++ e(*)>++++ h+(*) r++>+++ y+ - --* END GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 07:54:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Greetings.. > After reading through the book (though not all of it yet) I was wondering > why the archangel Gabriel is used in the game (and in female form for some > reason) as well as the archangel Michael, but the archangels Raphael and > Uriel are not. I point out these few because they are, as far as I know, Raphael may be in the works; Derek seemed to hint that he would show up in a Pyramid article. Uriel _is_ in there. He's just not around any more- the big guy called him back to Heaven after he started "cleansing" pagan gods, faeries, dragons, etc. out fo existance... > Oh yeah, I just heard that The Prophecy II is in the works! Yup, and Danzig will be playing an angel!! > Steven J. Syrek -- http://people.delphi.com/syrek -- ssyrek@mail.idt.net Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:56:49 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Identities >time. Which basically means that if you haven't seen your bud in >celestial form, you have no way of knowing if he's human, celestial, >ethereal, or *what*... Let alone what side he's on. Well, if you're a Seraph, you can at least know if your "bud" is lying to you when he says, "Yeah, sure, I'm a Malakim, really." -Loki, who doesn't understand why his players don't like Seraphs - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:01:41 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Impudite Imbalance? >That would be fine if angels and demons could actually identify each >other by sight....... It's fine because it's not likely you're just going to bump into a Celestial on the street. For that matter, it's not likely you're going to just suck Essence out of strangers -- you're going to have someone (or a group of someones) you've Charmed to suck the Essence out of -- by then you should have some idea they're not Celestials. If you're unlucky enough that your girlfriend turns out to be a Malakim in disguise, well, that's just one of the hazards of being Fallen... -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:33:05 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Greetings.. >reason) as well as the archangel Michael, but the archangels Raphael and >Uriel are not. I point out these few because they are, as far as I know, Uriel was (is, actually -- there seems to be some sense that the Word was ever re-assigned) the Archangel of Purity. He got recalled to the upper Heavens by God in C.E. 745 for wiping out all of the mythical creatures on Earth and in Blandine's realm. See p. 52 and 126 of the _In Nomine_ rulebook. As for Raphael, Derek wrote a story about the deal with him that apparantly didn't make it to the book, but is appearing in the next issue of Pyramid (the one out in June). -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:18:12 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Roles >Example. Dominic has an angel in the City operating under a very light Role >(level 1 or 2). He decides that he wants the angel somewhere else, and as >the Role is not that well tied to anything the angel just walks away. That >angel gets tied down somewhere, but Dominic finds he needs someone to play >the Role back in the City. Can he just _give_ the Role to another angel for >a while. Which leads me to another question -- how are Roles established, anyway? Especially the higher level ones. IF I have a Level 6 Role, my human life is as real as any in the Symphony, right? Does this mean I have a family? Friends who've known me for years, even for a Celestial freshly on Earth? To establish a High-level Role, does one have to go through childhood et cetera in a Vessel? ("Oh, isn't Joan such a sweet angel..." "My Bobby is a perfect demon...") I don't really tend toward the latter view, but it might make an interesting scenario. (Several Celestials, on both sides of the fence, have high-level Roles as children, and have been playing together for years. Then, when a bad man takes a knife to Jennifer, Jonny the Servitor of Haagenti, watching from afar, discovers that Jen's friend Jill has the Smite attunement...) -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:42:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Re: How might the fall have happened? On Tue, 13 May 1997, Anca Mosoiu wrote: > Some might be allied with angels like Novalis or > Eli, some with Lucifer, and some will simply not care about the "eternal > struggle between good and evil", since these are not fundamental concepts > in the face of their universe. Besides, if the humans just DON'T CARE > about Heaven or Hell, it will be rather hard for either side to collect the > Essence they seem to be so hungry for. I could see Bast allied with Jordi, and Thoth assisting Yves. By the same token Loki and Set would probably be helping Lucifer. Shadowcat ================================================================================ "Here is my song for the asking." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:53:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Stupid musical question On Tue, 13 May 1997, Thany wrote: > > Which AA/DP would "Alice's Restaurant" be most suited for? > (Sorry. I did all I could to warn you.) > Eli, who else work that much in stream of consciecness. I have seen Arlo in concert a few times, and he never does that song the same way twice. Shadowcat - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:59:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> the law of threes... On Tue, 13 May 1997, Scott Johnson wrote: > (Actually, that's one of the topics that's always interested me: some of > the Old Gods still do have worshippers - does that have any effect on > them? Eris has the Discordians, some of the old Norse and Celtic gods > have various branches of modern Wicca-related creeds, and the Shinto kami > have most of the nation of Japan - does that give them more power than, > say, the old Greek gods, who nowadays are rarely taken as anything more > than guest stars on the next episode of Xena?) And Bastet has a small following of humans, but HOW MANY FELINES ARE THERE IN THE WORLD??? Shadowcat last priest of Bast (as far as I know.) ******************************************************************************** " I've met many thinkers & many cats, but wisdom of cats is far superior" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #169 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. 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