From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 15 15:44:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00292 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:44:05 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15091 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:03:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:03:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199705151903.OAA15091@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #171 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 171 In this digest: Re: IN> Some questions Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Archangles. Re: IN> Sharing Roles Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? RE IN> Redemption and Abyss Re: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality RE IN> Redemption and Abyss Re: RE IN> Redemption and Abyss RE: IN>Archangels (thats E-L-S) Re: IN> Some questions IN> Re: RE: re: RE: rE: re > Redemption and the Abyss Re: IN> Archangles Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality RE: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? Re: IN>Archangels (thats E-L-S) Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Developing Roles Re: IN> Sharing Roles Re: IN> Sharing Roles IN> Joke Demon Prince IN BAD TASTE! Re: IN> Sharing Roles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:43:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Some questions At 4:12 PM -0500 5/10/97, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: >1) Am I right to assume the Celestial Song of Movement causes >Disturbance at both the beginning and end points? Hm. Could choose it either way. I don't know what I'd do. Probably depend on if I want to let PCs use it to escape a nasty situation "easily" (i.e., wouldn't create disturbance at the endpoint) or if I'm in the mode of "Songs are not easy answers to everything," at which point it would make all the disturbance at both locations. Though that wouldn't tell listeners where to find the other person, if they hadn't just seen him/her vanish. Was that a teleport in, or a 'port out? You don't know till you check... >2) Can the Celestial Song of Movement be traced with anything (aside >from a Cherub/Djinn attunement)? I'd say no, unless there's a tracking Song somewhere. >3) Does a Kyriotate of War loose any of his effective Force when his >vessel is manifest? I'd say yes. >4) A celestial causes Disturbance when it damages or kills a human, but >not another Celestial. What happens if a Celestial damages a Kyriotate >or Shedim host? It makes noise. I believe this is canon. >6) Does a Kyriotate have to activate Numious Corpus for every host it >wants to use it, or only once? For every host that it wants using it, I'd say -- but it can switch it around from host to host! (So you can have *one* flying mouse at a time, but you can fly one to the top of the roof, and then, if you've got your Wings song still in effect, fly the next one. But they can't fly up together unless you sing Wings twice.) >7) Is there any effective limit on the distance apart two Kyriotate >hosts can be while ridden? I don't think so. >8) A Kyriotate can possess an insect swarm. How far apart can the >members of that swarm be? Hrm.... Something relating to miles/yards/feet in forces, maybe. Dunno. A network of bees or something as Spies of Jordi would be scary, though. Maybe fun. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:29:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality At 11:35 AM -0700 5/13/97, Rob Coon wrote: >First off, I'm testing out a new mailer, my apologies if this message >appears skrewy. > >Okay, I'm beginning to wonder about In Nomine and the structure of >reality, specifically the nature of belief. It seems like a lot of >posts assume that belief in God/spirits/other actually affects them one >way or another. Is this mentioned somewhere that I've just missed? >(Wouldn't surprise me, as I managed to overlook the line stating Michael >to be a Seraph when I was looking for his choir...) I think it's stated that the Ethereal Gods, at least, are affected by beliefs. Ah, yes, here wer are. P. 54, Ethereal Spirits. "...created through the power of humanity's collective dreams and nightmares." >Second, is there some conflict over Essence -- Do the sides of the >battle need humans for their Essence? This seems to conflict with my >idea of the game -- I thought the Archangels had Essence out the >yin-yang for all intents and purposes, but were sparing with it, for >undisclosed reasons, and the value of Humanity came from it being the >most complex and seemingly important part of God's Creation. Demons seem to collect Essence from their damnedsouls (okay, I stole the term from Holly Lisle...). Angels? It's not clear where they get their Essence. From the Symphony, presumably. Unless the Upper Heavens are Essence-batteries and they're just as bad as demons... (Now, guess what story the *demons* are going to tell?) At 3:40 PM -0400 5/13/97, The Quixotic Ninja wrote: >1. Do pagan gods (or other spirits, Ethereal or otherwise) ever >regenerate essence automatically, the way angels/demons/humans do at >sunrise/sunset/noon? p. 50: Regaining Essence. "...midnight for others." I would assume this is the Ethereal Spirits. The Ethereal Gods may have other problems, relating to their worshippers or lack thereof. >3. If a Word-bound angel Falls (or if a Word-bound demon goes Bright), what >happens to that Celestial's Word? Does its meaning become "twisted," or is >it simply lost? A Word-bound demon would, IMO, lose the Word unless/until the Seraphim Council thought that the new angel was fit to have it again. A fallen angel would lose or keep the Word at Lucifer's whim; if kept, the meaning would undoubtedly twist in some way. (Say Dominic's current worst fear happens, and Eli yields to the dark side of the Force: Creation is a very potent Word, and one whose Power Eli is used to tapping into. There's a chance that Lucifer would grant his new Princeling the same Word... But the sort of Creation might go wonky -- cancers, mutations, diseases, elegant tools of killing or pain, families with more children than they can feed, etc., would become the new focus for a Dark Eli's Word. It might just as easily amuse Lucifer to grant him the Word of Stagnation or Entrophy, in which case... You can guess.) (If Gabriel Fell, there's no telling what would happen -- probably an all-out war between herself and the forces of Belial, setting Hell and Earth totally ablaze as they struggled to see who could take and hold the Word. Alternately, they might be able to share it in some way (fusing into aspects of the same entity?). Or perhaps Belial's presence is what *keeps* Gabriel from Falling, loon that she is -- like the ends of a magnet, his presence repells her. She can't even find the "peace" of the Calabim, poor creature...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:11:45 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Archangles. NOT a flame, but the modification you suggested for the Seraphim of Healing exactly duplicates the Celestial Song of Harmony. No doubt avoiding such a duplication was the intent of Not using the power you suggested in your posting. nevertheless, I do like your point about using a little imagination and going beyond the specific literal meaning of the Word. For instance: Water is flowing, changing, adapting to its container--reshaped riverbanks, waterglass, pitchers, urns---whatever. Soooo--the AA of Water becomes the AA of Life's Evolution . Hmmm....naaahh--no time. Maybe Paul or Hollis or Shadowcat has a little more time... tom, whose Word is Overflowing Emailbox.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:16:47 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Roles In reply to: > Which leads me to another question -- how are Roles established, anyway? > Especially the higher level ones. IMO, Roles are established by 2 main ways. A celestial (or several, over time) can 'grow up' in a vessel and establish the Role the 'real way'. The disdvantages of this is that it takes a long time and there is a chance that the celestials are going to be caught by their enemies who will attempt to kill the Role. The second way involves hacking into computer databases, manipulating the dreams and memories of those people who would have 'known' the person when they were younger, and a lot of other difficult work. This way is much more difficult, yet quicker. This gives me an idea for an adventure. A superior (doesn't matter which one) needs a Role for a new celestial (or old, doesn't matter). He assigns the PCs the job of creating the records, figuring out who the Role would have known and altering their memories to include the person etc. This is a big job, and the amount of successful effort that the PCs put into it will determine what level and status the Role finally has, and whether it is water-tight, or will 'leak', and someone will discover that the celestial is not who they say they are. If you want to put extra pressure on the characters, have the Superior want the Role mmade for THEMSELVES. For some reason, their Superior needs to spend some time on earth, and wants a Role to step into. If the PCs don't do a good job, and the Superior is found out, heads are going to roll. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 01:37:36 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances On Wed, 14 May 1997 16:40:05 -0700 (MST), shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) wrote: >>>>>Putting aside the point that GMs are omniscient in their own worlds, ok. :) >>>> >>>I think that Paul's assuming that the GM hasn't decided to create every >>>single Celestial in the countryside. >> >> Is such a thing possible? ;) >> >I know it comes as somewhat of a shock.... I would only be shocked had you convinced me it was possible. :) >>My thinking is generally that unless the disturbance gets to the level >>where high perception lookouts hear it, the chances of a wandering >>celestial hearing it are virtually nil. IOW, unless there's a story reason >>for an enemy celestial to be in the vicinity, the GM doesn't have an excuse >>to drop a random enemy in. >> >Who says it has to be an enemy? And who says that the enemy takes any >immediate action? You're right that it doesn't have to be an enemy. Since the echoes fade, action has to be taken fairly quickly. >I see it more as a hook for future subplots. It also randomizes the risk of >using essense. Nothing's wrong with the concept. I was just exploring options for implementing it. >Celestial Forces Number of Celectials > 1 10 > 2 100 These guys can't hear someone behind them going celestial. They're insignificant. > 3 1000 > 4 100 > 5 10 > 6 1 > >What do you think? I don't think it needs to be set to fixed ratios. It'll depend on the purposes of the groups involved. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:36:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality > in some way (fusing into aspects of the same entity?). Or perhaps > Belial's presence is what *keeps* Gabriel from Falling, loon that > she is -- like the ends of a magnet, his presence repells her. She > can't even find the "peace" of the Calabim, poor creature...) That's an absolutely fascinating idea, ArcBeth! Excuse me while I go wander off and madly scribble down some ideas... > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net Oops da Ogre, "Very interestink. Tell me how you veel about your Superior" mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:39:32 +1000 From: Mark Grundy Subject: Re: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? | Curious: What happens to an outcast when their last vessel dies? Is that | it? Are the over with a capital 'O'? If they can't ascend to Heaven, can | they get to their heart "the hard way" or not? This must surely be a concern for any surviving Grigori -- either they're very careful to keep the vessels they have, or else they've worked out alternatives. We know that celestial spirits can't hang around the corporeal world very long without a vessel to live in. (Does anyone have any idea why?) So here are some story options more interesting than instant destruction: * Trying to force a soul out of its own body and take over (how might you accomplish this?) * Getting stuck in some mundane object or site, unable to do much until you can move on (is this a way for ghosts and poltergeists to manifest?) * Gradually dissolving or dissipating, unable to find the celestial energies to support you. Maybe deterioration from celestial to lesser spirit to ambience force to symphonic energies... * Contact a demon and try and join Hell. (They should take most anyone if they can get the right hooks into you). * Work in a tether in exchange for a new body. (Some celestials might respond kindly toward outcasts) * Go the way of forgotten gods -- off to the ethereal plane. * Sacrifice some part of yourself to form a new vessel from raw matter. (A mechanistic solution, but one of possible interest to players). * Steal a or trade a vessel from another celestial. (How might this be done? How might this affect the vessel's appearance?) Cheers, Mark - -- Dr Mark Grundy, DCS, Phone: +61-6-249 3785 Education Co-ordinator, Fax: +61-6-249 0010 CRC for Advanced Computational Systems, The Australian National University, Web: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~Mark.Grun dy 0200 Australia Email: Mark.Grundy@anu.edu.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 20:02:20 UT From: "Kurt White" Subject: RE IN> Redemption and Abyss >Abaddon, Habbalah Baron of the Book of Days, 'Angel of Abyss' >(The name suits excellently. Especially the Habbalah part of >seeing themselves as angels...) Just as I was starting work on Abaddon myself :( I like the Baron, but would Abaddon ever have been a Servitor of Kronos? Surely as the Angel of the Abyss he was never in the service of another... BTW the Greeks knew Abaddon as Apollyon "the Destroyer", and he is also equated with the Angel of Death, of which there are at least a dozen. If you want to know their names, (or indeed any angelic or demonic names) I would recommend the Dictionary of Angels (listed in the IN Primary sources), or if you can't find it, email me and I'll send you the names. - -Kurt "The pus of the dead is yummy, It froths up on your mouth. It comes up out of your tummy, When you've run out of health..." TISM - Pus of the Dead ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:04:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? > We know that celestial spirits can't hang around the corporeal world > very long without a vessel to live in. (Does anyone have any idea why?) I would say that an analogy woudl eexplain it best. Celestial spirits are supposed to be in the celestial realm, not down here on earth. Think of it as a person trying to to walk around at the bottom of a pool. Without the ballast of a vessel, the celestial is naturally drawn back to where they belong. Remember, celestials are intruders here on earth and don't belong... > * Trying to force a soul out of its own body and take over (how might > you accomplish this?) Song of Possession. > * Getting stuck in some mundane object or site, unable to do much until you > can move on (is this a way for ghosts and poltergeists to manifest?) Sounds equivalent to taking the "Bound" Discord. Can you intentionally do this? > * Gradually dissolving or dissipating, unable to find the celestial energies > to support you. Maybe deterioration from celestial to lesser spirit to > ambience force to symphonic energies... I'm melting! I'm melting! Oh, what a world, what a world... > * Contact a demon and try and join Hell. (They should take most anyone if they > can get the right hooks into you). Yeah, but you'd likely be well-advised to ask before you are desparate. Hell isn't known for ignoring the chance to negotiate from an unfair position. > * Work in a tether in exchange for a new body. (Some celestials might respond > kindly toward outcasts) I can't help but imagine that most Seneschals would assume that you're a plant for the other side... > * Go the way of forgotten gods -- off to the ethereal plane. And stage a comeback... > * Sacrifice some part of yourself to form a new vessel from raw matter. > (A mechanistic solution, but one of possible interest to players). Not the most pleasant solution, but perfectly reasonable for a desparate spirit and rather dramatic. > * Steal a or trade a vessel from another celestial. (How might this be done? > How might this affect the vessel's appearance?) Song of Possession or Geasa could come in useful here. > Mark > 0200 Australia Email: Mark.Grundy@anu.edu.au Oops da Ogre, trying to be helpful, but on a major sugar crash... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 00:34:18 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality On Tue, 13 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) The Quixotic Ninja said: > >> I've been thinking that Rites probably benefit the Rite-giver with >> Essence, as well as the performer ("one for me, one for you"). This >> would easily explain a number of things, including why AAs/DPs give >> Rites, why a Redeemed celestial can still use old Rites (but it's *very* >> frowned upon), and why AAs/DPs have so much power to throw around. > >That makes a lot of sense, and further explains why using some other AA's >Rites can annoy your Superior. It also implies that completely alienating >your Servitors isn't a good career move for an AA/DP... > This is a great idea. Take it a step further: where does this leave Eli? -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 20:02:20 UT From: "Kurt White" Subject: RE IN> Redemption and Abyss >Abaddon, Habbalah Baron of the Book of Days, 'Angel of Abyss' >(The name suits excellently. Especially the Habbalah part of >seeing themselves as angels...) Just as I was starting work on Abaddon myself :( I like the Baron, but would Abaddon ever have been a Servitor of Kronos? Surely as the Angel of the Abyss he was never in the service of another... BTW the Greeks knew Abaddon as Apollyon "the Destroyer", and he is also equated with the Angel of Death, of which there are at least a dozen. If you want to know their names, (or indeed any angelic or demonic names) I would recommend the Dictionary of Angels (listed in the IN Primary sources), or if you can't find it, email me and I'll send you the names. - -Kurt "The pus of the dead is yummy, It froths up on your mouth. It comes up out of your tummy, When you've run out of health..." TISM - Pus of the Dead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:33:32 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tapio Erola Subject: Re: RE IN> Redemption and Abyss > >Abaddon, Habbalah Baron of the Book of Days, 'Angel of Abyss' > >(The name suits excellently. Especially the Habbalah part of > >seeing themselves as angels...) > > Just as I was starting work on Abaddon myself :( > I like the Baron, but would Abaddon ever have been a Servitor of Kronos? > Surely as the Angel of the Abyss he was never in the service of another... Well, the name is not necessarily carved in stone. He is not meant to be the angel of death, but demon of _fall_, the dark tempter whose domain is not limited to angels alone but also to humans who abandon light and embrace the darkness. (In whatever form that may be.) The reverse of course applies to 'Alita'. - -- Tapio Erola "Live and learn. And learn so that txr@paju.oulu.fi you can keep on living." -Jonah Matthieson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 22:34:02 UT From: "Kurt White" Subject: RE: IN>Archangels (thats E-L-S) Bit of a reply to Corey's mail... The whole point behind creating Raphael as the Angel of Healing is that in the references I read he does take a part in that role. There must obviously be an Angel whose sphere is the health of Man, (used in its non-sexual reference to the human race as a whole, not just men) so why not go with an angel credited with these responsibilities? A good point that the Seraphim could have a counselling power, but I felt that if any attunements existed that were similar, I tried to avoid them, as I feel each Archangel should have unique attunements. The only thing that was a conscious duplicate was the Healing Hands attunement, as I felt that a reworking of it might be suitable to Raphael. Not all created Angels slip into a "mould", for example I am kicking some ideas around for designing Metatron, the Archangel of the Name. As you might be aware, Metatron is one of the greatest of God's angels, and has amongst his own many names the seventy-two names of God. As I see him, Metatron embodies the wisdom that comes from knowing a thing's name, following the philosophy that to name a thing is to define it, which draws close to Eli, AA of Creation. This would open up possibilities for his servitors to hold powers of knowledge and/or creation, rather than a bulk standard attunement such as "On a successful resonance roll, the Seraph instantly knows his target's real name". I think it's just a matter of letting the concept take you where it wants. Hope this didn't sound like a flame, just presenting my side for anyone who is interested. But there may be an update to Raph if I get enough criticism. - -Kurt Archangel of Constructive Debate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 01:57:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Some questions In a message dated 97-05-15 01:41:02 EDT, you write: << >8) A Kyriotate can possess an insect swarm. How far apart can the >members of that swarm be? Hrm.... Something relating to miles/yards/feet in forces, maybe. Dunno. A network of bees or something as Spies of Jordi would be scary, though. Maybe fun. >> That's something I'd been meaning to ask about. Say a Kyriotate with 10 forces takes possession of two mundanes with 5 forces. Is there any limit to how far apart the two mundanes can travel? - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 23:41:37 UT From: "Kurt White" Subject: IN> Re: RE: re: RE: rE: re > Redemption and the Abyss "Well, the name is not necessarily carved in stone. He is not meant to be the angel of death, but demon of _fall_, the dark tempter whose domain is not limited to angels alone but also to humans who abandon light and embrace the darkness. (In whatever form that may be.)" Uh huh, I can see where I made the mistake in interpretation, not a bad idea. :) >How abot an ISBN for the book instead? isbn 0-02-907052-x - -Kurt "I've run out of quotes" - Kurt White, 1997 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 23:37:28 UT From: "Kurt White" Subject: Re: IN> Archangles Corey wrote: "The attunements do not even include malakim! On the grounds that they do not even have much concern for human healing. This is not true at all! There whole job is to heal, well at least in there minds. Even punching a person could be healing, as it can change there frame of mind with right and wrong. Which is healing on a high level. At least in there eyes." Yeah, in the same way as a habbalah *is* an angel, and a Balseraph never lies... I got quite a chuckle going back and reading this mail, I love the concept of punching people in the name of "Healing". My next IN character will be a Malakim of David, who strengthens Humans' resolve by killing them... "Werll, If I hadn't ripped his head off and stuffed it up his butt, how would I know if he was tough enough to face the War?" I deliberately didn't include Malakim for two reasons: 1) I maintain that they do not have the right mindset for Raphael 2) Is it canon that all angels must be represented in all AA's Servitors? " In this case something that might have worked better would be for a special power of 'counseling', or to be able to calm a human out of a rage. Making her peaceful and held together, unable to fight. This could even transfer over to using it on demons!" If you are looking for the Angel of Social Workers, he works for Novalis. The point is that a Seraph's attunement is like a form of counselling, but he is healing the damage that a victim's psyche takes in the form of soul hits. Besides, psychology is a very subjective science, and I think a little to abstruse for a gaming ability Fred: "Oh my life is in tatters" Seraphim: "hang on a sec (rolls d666, succeeds), just lie down and tell me all about it.." Anyway, I thought that would offer further explanation, after reading my first mail, I hadn't really defended my choices. Maybe someone should try doing a broader scale AA of healing, but for now Metatron is calling. - -Kurt Impudite of Bon Mots ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 04:31:47 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality On Thu, 15 May 97 00:34:18 EDT "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" wrote: >On Tue, 13 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) The Quixotic Ninja said: >> >>> I've been thinking that Rites probably benefit the Rite-giver with >>> Essence, as well as the performer ("one for me, one for you"). This >>> would easily explain a number of things, including why AAs/DPs give >>> Rites, why a Redeemed celestial can still use old Rites (but it's *very* >>> frowned upon), and why AAs/DPs have so much power to throw around. >> >>That makes a lot of sense, and further explains why using some other AA's >>Rites can annoy your Superior. It also implies that completely alienating >>your Servitors isn't a good career move for an AA/DP... > > This is a great idea. Take it a step further: where does this leave > Eli? Eli is most likely fine, AA's MUST have other ways of getting essence. In hell, souls are mined for essence, presumably for the DP's or Lucy himself. One other thing, am I correct in asserting that In Nomine does not consider Yahweh to be an etheral spirit created by the dreams and nightmare of men, but rather the creator and GOD above? I know that Laurence favors good ole' Christianity and that someone else supported something else, do BOTH of these religions follow Yahweh? Perhaps Yahweh was cleansed by Uriel "the Pure"? he he he, your God is dead. Perry M. Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:04:54 +0100 From: Niall Teasdale Subject: RE: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? This doesn't just apply to outcasts, it may apply to renegades, and it would also apply to any celestial without a superior, e.g. a Free Lilim. Hearts are created by the angel's superior, so if you have no superior you may not have a heart. If you don't have a heart, what happens when vessel dies? Niall. > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Paul [SMTP:cpaul@rand.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 9:03 PM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? > > > Curious: What happens to an outcast when their last vessel dies? Is > that > it? Are the over with a capital 'O'? If they can't ascend to Heaven, > can > they get to their heart "the hard way" or not? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:53:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN>Archangels (thats E-L-S) >Not all created Angels slip into a "mould", for example I am kicking some >ideas around for designing Metatron, the Archangel of the Name. As you might Of course, in "A Story of Lucifer" or whatever the title of the third story on the In Nomine Page is, Nergal mentions that Lucy carved Hell out of Metatron's corpse. (Shades of Tiamat! And I don't mean the goof five-headed dragon by TSR.) > -Kurt > Archangel of Constructive Debate Oops da Ogre, Calabim of Dark Humor whose Word is "Gifts of the Magi" mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:38:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Perry M. Lloyd wrote: "One other thing, am I correct in asserting that In Nomine does not consider Yahweh to be an etheral spirit created by the dreams and nightmare of men, but rather the creator and GOD above? I know that Laurence favors good ole' Christianity and that someone else supported something else, do BOTH of these religions follow Yahweh?" As I recall, Moriah has said that, among other documents, the Bible is taken as authoritative (though not "inerrant") for In Nomine. So, yes, Yahweh = Jehovah = God = the Creator = Allah. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worship Him, in the game, since they all solidly claim to worship Him in reality. (A few muddled people are under the impression that "Allah" is some other deity, whereas that name is simply Arabic for "God," and is used by Arabic-speaking Christians and Moslems alike.) It seems to me that, aside from the specific exception of the Marches, the whole tenor of In Nomine is against the "belief creates (spiritual) reality" cliche. If anything, the trend runs the other way, with humanity the puppets of the celestials. After all, In Nomine is a variation on the Conspiracy Theory game, where the PCs get to be more or less "in" on "what's *really* going on" -- far further "in" than ordinary humanity, any way. It just happens to use the oldest copnspiracy theory in the world, is all, one that is a sort of "open secret" among humans, though normal humans have no knowledge of the (often disconcerting) details. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:50:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Developing Roles On Wed, 14 May 1997 Cymrys@aol.com wrote: > While we're on the subkect, I offer for your edification one of my players > who doesn't HAVE a role, and deliberately chose not to. His opinion: Roles > are nothing but trouble. If you don't exist, you don't exist - at all. Sad as > it may seem, many people DO slip through the cracks; in essence, he has a > 'non-role' as one of these. Unlike a Role, it can't be proved or disproved. > (This may work better in Britain, than America; it may be only my perception, > but I've heard the US has a more intricate paper trail than we do). Don't bet on it. I know of a few people, myself included who have been able to fall between the cracks with little or no trouble. This includes intentional and otherwise. There was one point a few years ago, where NOBODY knew where I was for a period of 2 months, and I never even left the city of Muncie Indiana. What helps a great deal is to do this in a college town. "Faceless" students are so prevelent, it isn't hard to blend in. Though it can be a bit tricky when you are 6'4" and fairly well know in the area. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:04:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Roles An idea I had come up with forhigher roles was lifted lightly from Highlander. A human dies before his time, but the death is not noticed on earth. A celestial is given a breifing on the person, the more exact the breifing, the higher the role. Thus a level 4 or higher role WAS a person from X, and the angel is just portraying them. the lack of contenuity is do to the angel being unable to remember, or giving wrong details. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:10:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Emord Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Roles On Thu, 15 May 1997, Shadowcat wrote: > An idea I had come up with forhigher roles was lifted lightly from > Highlander. A human dies before his time, but the death is not noticed on > earth. A celestial is given a breifing on the person, the more exact the > breifing, the higher the role. Thus a level 4 or higher role WAS a person > from X, and the angel is just portraying them. the lack of contenuity is > do to the angel being unable to remember, or giving wrong details. > Well depending on how you view celestials, he could have been 'fed' a portion of the chorus that this person was and then that could relate to what he knows/remembers, or back to the computer analogy, he could be 'programmed' with the appropriate data and just 'wake up' one day and know that he is John Smith from Anytown USA and so on... Once again it is that whole 'GM's final decision thing, for the most part though I see this as the dramatic element more than the meat of the matter which is the fact that the higher the level of role, the better the angel is represented as a person in the real world. I smite you all with my THREE cents... Muhaha... }:-> Brian Emord Balseraph of Asmodeus Aspiring for the word of "Redistribution of sugary foods from pre-toddler gluttons" oft referred to as "Taking candy from babies" - --* BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- GCS/E d+>++ s+:+ a? C+++(++++)$ UBLAHS++$ P+++$ L++ E+ W++ N o K++ w O++ M-->--- V-- PS(++) PE(+)(-) Y+ PGP- t+@ 5+@ X R+(+++)* tv- b++>+++ DI+++$ D G++ e(*)>++++ h+(*) r++>+++ y+ - --* END GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 09:56:25 PDT From: Christopher Paul Subject: IN> Joke Demon Prince IN BAD TASTE! I don't know how many of you have gaming sessions that devolve into really, really, funny but tasteless game related jokes, but, well my gaming group does. Here's the TASTELESS produce of a five minute brainflash on my part that left my entire group on the floor. If this is inapropriate, I apologize, and hope it doesn't get past the moderator. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Rect, Demon Prince of Butts: Band attunements: Balseraph of Butts can perfectly conceal any object they can fit in their butt against detection by any means. Djinn of Butts can, by spending 1 essence, fart out a cloud of gas with a radius equal to their corporeal forces in yards which will drive everyone (including the Djinn) out of it who cannot make a will roll. The cloud lasts a number of minutes equal to the check digit. Habbalah of Butts are the masters of making people feel shitty. When using their resonance to invoke depression, they may add their celestial forces to the roll. Calabim of Rect may use their reasonance to cause a digestive disorder (check digit determines severity) in anyone within their normal reasonance range. Lilim of Butts "got back." Anytime one of these sexy butted beauties gets a chance to wiggle her butt, she may add her corporeal forces to either her seduction skill or a reaction roll, whichever is appropriate. Shedim of Rect, may, if unable (or unwilling) to take a host, enter the butt of nearby human/vessel and remain there undetectable for a number of hours equal to the check digit of their successful resonance roll. On a failed resonance roll, that butt may not be entered that day. Impudites of Butts regain essence for participating in sodomy. Servitor Attunements: Butt Hard: By spending a point of essence, the servitor becomes butt hard for a number of combat rounds equal to their total forces, halving all damage that they take after armor. Butt Space: The servitor may store large objects in their butt. Any single object weighing less in pounds than the demon's total forces and occupying cubic feet no more than the demon's corporeal forces may be placed in the demon's butt. Yes, you can put a 10' pole up your ass. Note, used with the balseraph band attunement, this attunement allows items to be stored AND perfectly concealed. Distinctions: Knight of Nature's Call: Demons of this rank may spend 1 essence to make anyone they can see feel nature's call. Check digit determines the urgency of the call. Captain of Ass: A Captain of ass may, by spending one essence, distract a single person within line of sight so that they "have their head up their ass" and will be at a penalty equal to the demon's celestial forces to any perception roll they attempt for the next d10 minutes. This effect ends if the subject takes damage or is engaged in combat. Baron of Booty: Demons of this rank may access the eternal Butt through their own. By reaching into their posterior and making a successful perception roll, they can pull useful objects out of their ass. Check digit determines the quality of items so produced. Essence cost is equal to the mass of the object divided by the demons corporeal forces in pounds. So, for a paltry 3 essence, the average demon could pull a fully loaded 9lb. submachine gun out of their butt. Note that whether or not the perception roll succeedes, essence is spent, and SOMETHING is pulled out of the eternal Butt. Again, check digit should guide you in determining what. Be afraid if you ever pull the Holy Spirit out of your ass... (d666=111) Rites: 1. Produce a butt-noise audible to at least 5 persons that generates applause. 2. Convince someone to put something in their butt that they otherwise would not. 3. Spend 2 hours in a proctologist's office, spending part of that time with the proctologist. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:40:33 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Roles Shadowcat writes: >Thus a level 4 or higher role WAS a person from X, and the angel >is just portraying them. the lack of contenuity is due to the >angel being unable to remember, or giving wrong details. Roles aren't just a cover identity, even though they also double as that. A cover identity can (presumably) be provided by getting some fake ID. With a Role, it isn't fake ID - the angel's role is really part of the everyday world. To quote IN page 43: "Note that anyone could (for instance) impersonate a policeman as part of his celestial mission. That costs no points. But if you buy the role of a policeman, there will be a coffee-cup at the station house with your name on it, and no amount of checking up will reveal you as anything but a real cop. You are a real cop." A Role also covers Dissonance caused in the line of that role: if it is something that a human with that role would normally be doing, it may not cause noise. I would say that a role is thus a matter of a certain vessel being mystically attuned to the Symphony in some way. I am even toying with ways Roles can be damaged - cause enough (non-role related) Dissonance while in a role, and it may start loosing it's attunment. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #171 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.