From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 16 04:29:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02714 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 04:29:19 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA31487 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 16 May 1997 03:40:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 03:40:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199705160840.DAA31487@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #172 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 172 In this digest: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Archangles. IN> Redemption and Abyss Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Some questions Re: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? IN> Roles IN> IN NOMINE Survey IN> Rect Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> the law of threes... Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Malakim Honour Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances Re: IN> Sharing Roles Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Superiors... Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Sharing Identities IN> A new Superior.... sort of Re: IN> A new Superior.... sort of Re: IN> A new Superior.... sort of IN> Lilim inspiration Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> the law of threes... Re: IN>Still yet another kyriotate question Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances Re: IN> Celestial Population Density IN> Recommended Reading Re: IN> Malakim Honour ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:55:49 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Woah, thanks... I figured that there must be some sort of Islam/Christian/We-Love-the-Middle-East thing going on... I just find it somewhat annoying. Oh, well! Has anyone hashed out exactly how Buddism and Taoism might work into the In Nomine world? Perry M. Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 13:59 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality >>> I've been thinking that Rites probably benefit the Rite-giver with >>> Essence, as well as the performer ("one for me, one for you"). This >>> would easily explain a number of things, including why AAs/DPs give >>> Rites, why a Redeemed celestial can still use old Rites (but it's *very* >>> frowned upon), and why AAs/DPs have so much power to throw around. >> >>That makes a lot of sense, and further explains why using some other AA's >>Rites can annoy your Superior. It also implies that completely alienating >>your Servitors isn't a good career move for an AA/DP... >> > This is a great idea. Take it a step further: where does this leave Eli? - Presumably OK, since his servitors still have his Rites (and probably still use some of them with enthusiasm....) - If an AA/DP draws Essence from the strength of his Word (one reason a Rite might generate Essence for the Superior), Eli is in no trouble at all.... Hmmm, maybe he's suffering from a perpetual Essence overdose. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:39:28 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Archangles. There's no such thing as Archangles, arches are made of curves. (Sorry, I couldn't resiste that.) ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:31:16 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tapio Erola Subject: IN> Redemption and Abyss Deuel, Elohim Master of Divine knowledge, Angel of Redemption "I'd like to help you, Fury. Neutralize the anger and relieve the unending pain. There must be a way to reintegrate the broken parts of you. To heal you." --Dorothea MacDonald, _Diamond Mask_ by Julian May. Deuel is one of the more trusted and influential lieutnants of Yves. When demon starts to think about defection, she's just the person to talk to. She has solid 16 forces (as is befitting to angel this important). She also represents true repentance and redemption on mortals, persuading them to permanently change their ways. Her relations to her boss are good, and although there have been some rather spectacular failures, she does good job to merit this. She has a special distrust towards Dominic (Who she thinks is a little too hasty and sometimes denies being a chance to redeem himself). She is not above harboring a demon while negotiating with archangel(s) to arrange his final redemption. This distrust is mutual as Dominic keeps her under constant suspicion and surveillance for talking to demons. She's little distrustful of Marc, due to his deal-making. It implies ulterior motives instead of true repentance. She appears as brown-haired, somewhat attractive woman wearing white-toned business suit. She exudes trustworthiness and help. The quintessential counselor, in legal and psychological sense. Her manner is sympathetic but uninvolved, like befitting to Elohim and she is nothing if not objective in her dealings. Special Rite: Redeeming a human: +1 Arranging a Demon's Redemption: +3 Essence. - ----- Abaddon, Habbalah Baron of the Book of Days Demon of Fall Aka. the 'Angel of Abyss' "Now release your anger! Only your hatred can destroy me!" - -Darth Vader, _Empire Strikes Back_ An counterpart and fierce enemy of Angel of Redemption. He is just the person tempting outcasts, helping them fall to meet their fate in demonic service. Like his counterpart, he has solid 16 forces behind him. Not to mention the fact that he is in very good terms with his boss. (Not to mention the big L). A real habbalah, he excels in emoting dark feelings and persuading his victims to take that last fatal step... He appears as the quintessential smooth operator with engaging smile and _presence_. He wears black suit (Armani, of course) and black tie. He _reeks_ of dark camaraderie with friendly manner and sympathetic understanding. Special Rites: Causing an Angel to Fall: +3 Essence - -------------------------- Redemption and Abyss are too powerful Words for players, so these are best suited as NPC:s for adventures where either possibility is involved. They would suit nicely for any team as involved adventure on either side. Both of them dislike the physical option, preferring to keep things 'civil', but Azzy and Dom are notorious in sending their personal hit squads to prevent any defections. Here they are. Comments, questions, suggestions are welcome and can cause some modification. Flames will be rerouted to Gabriel who will take appropriate action... - -- Tapio Erola "Live and learn. And learn so that txr@paju.oulu.fi you can keep on living." -Jonah Matthieson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:47:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Perry M. Lloyd wrote: "Woah, thanks... I figured that there must be some sort of Islam/Christian/We-Love-the-Middle-East thing going on... I just find it somewhat annoying." Annoying, perhaps, but hardly surprising in a game about playing angels and demons -- figures from the theology/mythology of those religions. "Has anyone hashed out exactly how Buddism and Taoism might work into the In Nomine world?" There is nothing official, but blessed human souls who deliberately return to Earth are termed "boddhisatvahs," and it looks to me like it would be pretty plausible to identify the Symphony with the Tao. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:57:55 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Some questions > That's something I'd been meaning to ask about. Say a Kyriotate with 10 > forces takes possession of two mundanes with 5 forces. Is there any limit to > how far apart the two mundanes can travel? Nope. Scary, ain't it? If you start talking inter-planetary or inter-system distances, I may reconsider. But I doubt it. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:02:02 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? On May 15, 11:04am, Niall Teasdale wrote: > Subject: RE: IN> What happens to an outcast when they die? > This doesn't just apply to outcasts, it may apply to renegades, and it > would also apply to any celestial without a superior, e.g. a Free Lilim. > > Hearts are created by the angel's superior, so if you have no superior > you may not have a heart. If you don't have a heart, what happens when > vessel dies? My own, non-canon, opinion is that they end up in particularly bleak and desolate part of the Far Marches known as Limbo. In fact, the reason its so dreary are all the near-mindless spirits wandering around with nothing holding them in place (i.e. hearts). In my campaign, they are not truly conscious, but are looking for enough energy (Essence) to reform themselves. This would normally be done by their Hearts. Any creature or thing containing Essence can be preyed upon quickly here unless they have a means of protecting themselves. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:55:31 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Roles Here's the NON-canon answer to how Roles are created. Low level Roles, which don't require much in corroborating evidence, are a piece of cake. A legal identity of some sort, a SSN (for those in the US), a driver's license and you are set to go. "Who's he?" "I dunno. He moved into the neighborhood a few months ago. Seems nice enough." Higher level roles require either time (possibly since childhood) or some advanced reality hacking. (Manipulating databases/memories/physical evidence/etc). I don't like the idea that reality alters itself because someone is 'given' a Role. The whole purpose of a Role is that you are integrated into the Symphony as much as possible and that takes time or sweat or both. Time can be simply living in an area, staying in the same job, keeping an identity 'alive' by doing things official in it for awhile. Sweat is either the finicky 'history correction' like alterning records, or minds, or just applying for all the forms needed. It also can be going out and meeting people and really establishing yourself in their minds as a part of the Symphony. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:37:21 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> IN NOMINE Survey Do you ever wonder if SJG listens to you? I mean, beyond the usual phonetaps and opened letters? Well, the answer is yes and you can let yourself be heard in the In Nomine survey. Just point your favorite browser over at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/survey.html _Don't_ make us come looking for the answers... }=> - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:14:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Rect ROTFLMA...^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H um .... never mind. ;->P Really - very funny. Now what happens if a skinny demon with high CF tries to pull *himself* out of his own but? Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:12:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality On Thu, 15 May 1997, PERRY M. LLOYD wrote: > Woah, thanks... I figured that there must be some sort of > Islam/Christian/We-Love-the-Middle-East thing going on... I just find it > somewhat annoying. Oh, well! Has anyone hashed out exactly how Buddism > and Taoism might work into the In Nomine world? I've done my best to avoid the issue, mainly because I have no idea what the Eastern equivalent of Angels are. I've more or less told my players that "The Angel of the East are somewhat different from us..." My gut level intuition is that both Buddhism and Taoism are "correct" religions in the same sense as Christianity and Islam. I have difficulty imagining Heaven allowing such a large segment of the world persist in ignorance. Both are vaguely monotheistic, in the sense that they allude to a single higher power. I'm not sure about Hinduism and Shinto. Too polytheistic. They might be under the Pagan Gods. Then again, maybe not. Paul Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:52:50 -0700 (MST) From: shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) Subject: Re: IN> the law of threes... >> Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!! > >Heh... this reminds me. In all this talk about which various pagan gods >are aligned with who, I wonder where *Eris* wound up. > >(Hey, I could see Janus or Gabriel taking her in... or Lilith. ;) > Or Eli? After all, she *creates* discord and stagnation stunts creativity. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:52:43 -0700 (MST) From: shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality >>That makes a lot of sense, and further explains why using some other AA's >>Rites can annoy your Superior. It also implies that completely alienating >>your Servitors isn't a good career move for an AA/DP... >> > This is a great idea. Take it a step further: where does this leave Eli? > Well, since AFAIK, the Angels that he "gave away" still have access to his rotes.... He's got plenty of Essense to add to what he's getting from the Gregori(sp). Note that that's non canon but it's a neat thought. Almost as much fun as the one about Eli being off to have a fling with Lilith. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:03:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Honour At 5:49 PM +1000 5/14/97, Peter Frederick wrote: [...] > "What you don't use guns do you??" >[...] "You wanted me to do what??" The others have said that they think a Malakite wouldn't *automatically* be this way -- but a young one, fresh out of Heaven, *might* be a little naive in this manner. It could be amusing, so long as the Malakite learned quickly enough that it wasn't *quite* a running gag. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:52:31 -0700 (MST) From: shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances >>>>I think that Paul's assuming that the GM hasn't decided to create every >>>>single Celestial in the countryside. >>> >>> Is such a thing possible? ;) >>> >>I know it comes as somewhat of a shock.... > >I would only be shocked had you convinced me it was possible. :) > >>Who says it has to be an enemy? And who says that the enemy takes any >>immediate action? > >You're right that it doesn't have to be an enemy. Since the echoes fade, >action has to be taken fairly quickly. > Not really, once a Celestial has been spotted, it's easy enough to keep tabs on him. Find out what he's after, and then plot against his goal. (for those of a more subtle nature) >>Celestial Forces Number of Celectials >> 1 10 >> 2 100 > >These guys can't hear someone behind them going celestial. They're >insignificant. > True but I was figuring on adding them in to pull down the odds of being spotted. >> 3 1000 >> 4 100 >> 5 10 >> 6 1 >> >>What do you think? > >I don't think it needs to be set to fixed ratios. It'll depend on the >purposes of the groups involved. > True, but once you've got *a* ratio for a city, you can calculate the chance that a disturbance is noticed in a random part of a random city. Rather than being location specific and requireing the GM to come up with the power structure for each city, it gives the GM a number to roll against. I see it as a way to modify Pauls system to take into account the chance of a high CelF Celestial being in (or wandering through) the area. Hmmm.... If it gets slow, I'll try to work up a table for discussion. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:00:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Roles At 5:39 PM +1000 5/14/97, Peter Frederick wrote: >the "Sharing Identities" thread prompted me to consider something slightly >related, Sharing Roles. [snip] Sounds good, and even likely! I would assume that it would be used for *many* things -- to cover for a high-level role, even, should the celestial come to permanent harm! (If you can hide/vanish the vessel-corpse, of course.) Especially if roles are hard to make at deep levels. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:55:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality At 12:34 AM -0400 5/15/97, Iota (Tom Wenisch) wrote: >On Tue, 13 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) The Quixotic Ninja said: >> >>> I've been thinking that Rites probably benefit the Rite-giver with >>> Essence, as well as the performer ("one for me, one for you"). [...] > This is a great idea. Take it a step further: where does this leave Eli? His angels, you will note, keep their Rites, and have to *earn* Rites from their temp-Superiors. (E.g., "Ana" from Pyramid, the Malakite of Creation in service to Fire, who was *granted* the Rite of Kill a Demon With Fire.) p. 116, paragraph 6, last sentence. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:10:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superiors... At 7:15 AM -0500 5/14/97, Brian Emord wrote: >I have a little question about superiors (AA/DP): > > If a superior falls or becomes bright, do his followers suddenly >lose all their superior based attunements? I would say yes. You know to worry when the Servitors of Creation can no longer generate Essence with a little recreation. Better keep them recreationing, to make sure all's still well! >How do they (the followers) compensate for the loss? Go work for another Superior, probably. They'll be on nothing but their Songs, daily Essence, alternate Rites (if known), and Choir Resonances till then. Though it would be interesting if all the Hearts created by that AA/DP shattered, forcing the scattered Servitors to go find an appropriate Tether... (I'm so *mean*!) If another Superior were elevated to the position, given the appropriate Word, then they probably can tap back into it... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:02:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jared P. Buntain" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality > I've done my best to avoid the issue, mainly because I have no idea what > the Eastern equivalent of Angels are. I've more or less told my players > that "The Angel of the East are somewhat different from us..." I was taught a version of Hindu mythology based on the Vedic tradition, and therein, it is simply a given that various and sundry good and evil celestial beings exist. Not much is talked about them (though the grigori have intresting parellels to titans) other than that Rakshashas where our heros favorite targets... And that by killing them, he redemed them. I really should go back and ask some questions specifically about them, see if there is more to it. > I'm not sure about Hinduism and Shinto. Too polytheistic. They might be > under the Pagan Gods. Then again, maybe not. Hinduism is (at its root) mono"theistic". I view it the same way christians view God. They see a trinity as one. The flavor I was told has a trinity as well (Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva) that are part of a greater whole. That whole isnt specifically referred to as God however, more as all of creation (the Symphony). Your probably being confused by the plethora of Devas, which are actually much more closely aligned with Angels. I can go dig more if people are intrested. > Paul Jared Buntain chandley@nwu.edu www.cauce.org: Because Spam hurts us all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:49:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Sharing Identities > > > >>[...] could angelic society be sufficiently paranoid > >>that one would keep mum with angelic strangers rather than simply walking > >>up, shaking hands and saying "Hi, I'm Bobethesh, Mercurian of Novalis, and > >>in case you need them, here are my attunements..."? > > > >Celestials can't just look at someone and tell whether he is celestial or > >which side he's on. Right - but they are still socially connected. Angels are going to keep track of each other for the sake of co-operating. I'm not talking about walking up to a celestial in teh street and introducing yourself. I'm thinking more of a situation where you are brought together as part of a team. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:08:56 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> A new Superior.... sort of I was sort of leary about posting this Archangel to the list- he's just-slightly-less than serious, after all. but after reading the post on the Demon Prince Of Butts, I feel relatively safe. Grab a bag of salt, and take a few grains with this... Ultimus, the Archangel of Munchkins Contrary to popular belief, Michael was not the most powerful Angel created by God. That honor falls instead to Maximus, Archangel of Munchkins, God's TRUE Chosen One. Formed from the swirling base matter of the Universe itself, Maximus was brought forth by God to be the have-all, end-all Celestial being. Encompassing the strnegth of Michael, the knowledge of Yves, the solidity of David, the speed of Janus, and the pure ineffability of the Lord Himself, Ultimus makes all other Archangels pale in comparison. Maximus' goal in Heavenly society is to make the other Archangels realize the one way to win the War- more plusses. Lots more. Plusses are the one true weapon. In fact, unbeknownest even to Yves, God Himself's favorite manifestation is that of a giant, glowing Plus sign. He is also quick to point out that a certain revered religious mortal's religion revolves largely around the symbol of a slightly deformed plus sign. Maximus has never been defeated in combat. He knows everything that has ever, will ever, and could ever occur. His power enables him to change the Symphony on a grand scale. God is technically in charge of the Universal Symphony, but only because Ultimas knows that serving Him gives him more plusses than running the place would. Ultimus is the only Archangel known to actually shift Choirs- at any given time, he belongs to whichever Choir grants him the most plusses. DISSONANCE Servitors of Ultimus must, at all times and in all situations, use whatever weapon or take whatever action grants them the most plusses. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS All Servitors of Ultimus may, at any time, examine the In Nomine Rulebook and choose one of their Choir's attunements, from any Superior. The attunement chosen must grant that Angel the most plusses in the current situation, of he will suffer Dissonance. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Plus Sight- Angels with Plus Sight can automatically tell what weapon will give them the most plusses in a given situation. All Servitors of Ultimus must purchae this attunement upon creation. Imbue With Plusses- This attunement allows the Angel to imbue any weapon with a number of plusses equal to the Angel's Celestial forces. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to the Angel's Celestial forces. DISTINCTIONS Vassal of Munchkins- These Angels know inherently if an item or weapon can be used in an alternate way that would provide more plusses. Friend Of Power- These Angels may force a six on the check digit of any roll, at the cost of one Essence. Master of Plusses- Any weapon wielded or skill utilized by a Mast Of Plusses automatically gains one plus more than the most powerful weapon/skill equilavent of his opponents. BASIC RITES Convince your GM that your 12 Force angel is a perfectly reasonable starting character. Show your blatant superiority by expressing contempt for an enemy's lack of plusses. RELATIONS- For some reason, jealousy perhaps, all other Celestials (including Archangels) refuse to acknowledge Ultimus' existence. For his part, the Archangel of Munchkins deems all of creation inferior to himself and concentrates solely on giving Heaven and himself more plusses. Since no other Celestials recognize Ultimus, the above attunements and Rites are what he *would* grant, if anybody would admit to knowing him. CHANCE OF INVOCATIONL: 0 Ultimus cannot be summoned unless the summoner utilizes, you guessed it, plusses +1 A rigged set of dice +2 A copy of T$R's 'Complete X Handbook,' where X equals any race/class/species +3 A weapon utilizing at least three differnt guidance/sighting mechanisms +4 A role player using a D&D character with more than two 18s in the abilities +5 A GM who encourages the above player to make even stronger characters +6 18 nomral six sided dice, all rolled at once and all coming up on 6 Hope you like 'im! - -Rogue, who fully expects to be burned at the stake for this one ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:07:48 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> A new Superior.... sort of lighter, please... now if i could just stop ROTFL long enough to light the biggest pyre since Joan of Arc ordered her stake well done! you can't make me admit to my identity, so i may be safe.... FWOOOSH! Aiiiieeeeeeee.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:52:21 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> A new Superior.... sort of Hmm, it would be nice if you get figure out his name :) > Ultimus, the Archangel of Munchkins , and; Maximus, Archangel of Munchkins, Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:18:38 -0700 From: Roger Carbol Subject: IN> Lilim inspiration Just happened to read a short story which seems, to me, to sum up the Lilim rather well, and provide a bit of inspiration. "The Face of Helene Bournouw", by Harlan Ellison. Reprinted in the horror+sex anthology "Shudder Again", edited by Michele Slung, ISBN 0-451-45346-8 Comments, reviews, snide remarks, etc solicited. Roger Carbol .. rog@col.ca .. the most perfect succubus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:07:51 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality >I'm not sure about Hinduism and Shinto. Too polytheistic. They might >be under the Pagan Gods. Then again, maybe not. AFAIK, Hinduism has the idea of Brahma, of which all other dieties are merely aspects - it seems to fit pretty well, after a sort. No idea about Shinto. Personally though, I don't know that god is truely the creator of the universe, at least not in my game. He's powerful, but if he created the universe, he would have the power to end the War at any time; he would not be on the side that's loosing ground. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:38:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Johnson Subject: Re: IN> the law of threes... On Thu, 15 May 1997, Jeff Miller wrote: > >> Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!! > > > >Heh... this reminds me. In all this talk about which various pagan gods > >are aligned with who, I wonder where *Eris* wound up. > > > >(Hey, I could see Janus or Gabriel taking her in... or Lilith. ;) > > > Or Eli? After all, she *creates* discord and stagnation stunts creativity. More than that, in the Principia Discordia, it's actually stated that there's two axes of conflict in the world: order vs. disorder and creation vs. destruction. Humans have typically fixated on 'order vs. disorder' as the major good vs. evil one, accepting both creative and destructive order as good and calling both creative and destructive disorder bad. The Principia encourages people to make the other distinction - creative order and disorder are good, and destructive order and disorder are bad. I can't see Eris really agreeing to serve Eli. But I *really* can see the two of them getting together for coffee on Earth every now and then... - -- Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:51:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@AOL.COM Subject: Re: IN>Still yet another kyriotate question In a message dated 97-05-15 20:07:24 EDT, you write: << > That's something I'd been meaning to ask about. Say a Kyriotate with 10 > forces takes possession of two mundanes with 5 forces. Is there any limit to > how far apart the two mundanes can travel? Nope. Scary, ain't it? If you start talking inter-planetary or inter-system distances, I may reconsider. But I doubt it. ;) >> Hee hee hee hee....so tell me, if I possess four cats and locate them in different time zones does that mean I can regenerate essence at sunrise four times in one "day"? - -Calabim@Aol.com (whose players occasionally try to drive him mad with kyriotate questions) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:02:17 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Essence and the nature of reality Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > AFAIK, Hinduism has the idea of Brahma, of which all other dieties are > merely aspects - it seems to fit pretty well, after a sort. No idea > about Shinto. > > Personally though, I don't know that god is truely the creator of the > universe, at least not in my game. He's powerful, but if he created > the universe, he would have the power to end the War at any time; he > would not be on the side that's loosing ground. Unless he _wants_ to lose... or has other concerns other than the obvious... I like having God in IN being the real deal. I don't feel like exploring grey areas as much as I used to, and the cut-and-dried fact of there being God & the Devil, Good & Evil, appeals to me. Leave moral ambiguity for humanity... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia We are our own wicked gods With little "g's" and big dicks Sadistic and constantly inflicting A slow demise MARILYN MANSON, "My Monkey" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 06:45:39 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Disturbances On Thu, 15 May 1997 14:52:31 -0700 (MST), shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) wrote: >>You're right that it doesn't have to be an enemy. Since the echoes fade, >>action has to be taken fairly quickly. >> >Not really, once a Celestial has been spotted, it's easy enough to keep tabs >on him. Find out what he's after, and then plot against his goal. (for >those of a more subtle nature) It's GM option whether the disturbance traces to the location or the celestial doing the disturbing. Unless the disturbance is caused by something done to the celestial himself (like a numinus corpus or going celestial), I'd generally link the disturbance to a location. As to spotting a celestial, you can distinguish the person who caused it while the disturbance is still echoing, but after that, it is very difficult to spot a celestial, much less tell which side he's on. >True, but once you've got *a* ratio for a city, you can calculate the chance >that a disturbance is noticed in a random part of a random city. Rather >than being location specific and requireing the GM to come up with the power >structure for each city, it gives the GM a number to roll against. Is such a thing possible? ;) >I see it as a way to modify Pauls system to take into account the chance of >a high CelF Celestial being in (or wandering through) the area. > >Hmmm.... If it gets slow, I'll try to work up a table for discussion. All you have to do is use the celestials per square mile table I posted a couple days ago. Look about a dozen messages back in this thread, or I can send you a copy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:35:08 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Population Density Dear David, Elizabeth and List At 08:05 PM 14/5/97 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 12:58 PM -0400 5/13/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>>It would vary; a good rule of thumb would be probably one per 100000, >>depending on importance of the city, evenly split between up and down<<< >> >> >>I disagree that it would be evenly split; Hell has always gone for quantity >>over quality, which means there will usually be more demons than angels. > >And some of those (if not many) will be 7-Forcers, like the group >from the GM screen adventure (at least I got to look at the *picture*...). I had a little brainflash from what someone said on the Celestial Disturbances Thread, that somehitng might be heard by an Imp or Reliever. This suggested to me that while the "Celestial" population density might be about 1 per 50,000 general population not all are 9 force Angels. A good back up population of Force 6 and 7 Celestials and Soldiers of Force 6, and Servants of Force 5 can make up the Celestial Population, and take a lot of work away from the GM, and make the Players tham much more important as the Senior Guys (and Gals) of their Side. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. > > >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net >GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > > > Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:49:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tapio Erola Subject: IN> Recommended Reading For those still wondering about Rock'n'Roll in In Nomine setting I recommended a nice little anthology 'Shock Rock' by Jeff Gelb. Several stories adaptable and especially the last one ('Flaming Telepaths' by John Shirley) reads like a straight IN setting. A real piece against putting Rock'n'Roll wholly demonic. And on other side, Stephen King's "You Know They Got a Hell of a Band" is a nice story about what happens to Rock Stars after they die... SPOILERS BELOW In "Flaming Telepaths": A High-Ranking balseraph of Nybbas posing as Televangelist along his retinue arrives on Rock Club to do a dark miracle and film a little feature of 'divine fire' burning sinners. Unfortunately for it, _Eli_ himself happens to be in that club at same time. Can you say 'Crispy Crittered Demon'? I knew you could. (It could not have been anyone else, the characterization was dead-on. "Sorry that I did not awaken before you were gone." to unfortunate bystander who got toasted and leaving a band to play never-seen-before, virginal piece.) Tapio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:07:00 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Honour Dear Walt, Elizabeth and List At 06:07 PM 14/5/97 GMT, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Wed, 14 May 1997 17:49:04 +1000 (EST), Peter Frederick > wrote: > >>Another thing about Malakim, how pervasive is their conviction that everyone >>follows their personal Code of Honour, as stated on page 100. > >Note also on that page, "...all the Malakim demand from their servants and >their peers is discipline and respect." No mention of adhering to their >stardard of honor. Malakim'd like them to, but they don't get dissonance >from them not doing so. Uhuh, but the passage further down says "Each Malakite has his own seperate code of honor, based on his personal principles of right and wrong, that he expects those around him to follow - which can make meeting a new Malakim very interesting." I take this to mean that each Malakim judges whether you are a good person or not on how you measure up to HIS Code. All will look down on you for not doing everythiung you can to remove Evil and if you surrender to the Forces of Darkness, but one might think someone who shoots an unarmed assailant is a balck hearted cad, while the next thinks he is just being sensible. Okay, the Examples were intentionally over the top. Experience would make a Malakim aware of the reality of the responses of those he is going to be working with, who he might see as friends, or he might not, depends on your player group I guess. >Walt's Words >The key here is that Malakim are weasel-detectors. They cannot weasel their >way into keeping their oaths: they have to do it the hard way, up front and >honest. Definately agree with the need for Malakim to be stand up guys. No Rules Lawyers need apply :) >Elizabeth Wrote >[...] >> "What you don't use guns do you??" >>[...] "You wanted me to do what??" > > The others have said that they think a Malakite wouldn't >*automatically* be this way -- but a young one, fresh out of >Heaven, *might* be a little naive in this manner. It could be >amusing, so long as the Malakite learned quickly enough that >it wasn't *quite* a running gag. It is one of the things I think is not considered enough. Newly created Angels, or those with no experience of the Corporeal Plane may find it to be confusing and while they may be "briefed" by a Superior, it could still be a steep learning curve for the uninitiated. Lots of chances for a few giggles :) . Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours, Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #172 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.