From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun May 25 13:32:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21964 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 13:32:41 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28376 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 25 May 1997 12:30:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:30:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199705251730.MAA28376@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #182 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, May 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 182 In this digest: IN> Don't let the sun Re: IN> Still more Kyriotate/Shedim questions... IN> BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists IN> Lillim are Evil! IN> New Role-Playing mailing list: inferno IN> The White Witch as Superior IN> Jean Kyrio & Possession ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 May 97 12:47:01 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Don't let the sun >Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:57:50 -0400 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Sunrise, turn your face to the day... (Re: IN>Still yet another >kyriotate question) > >At 6:29 PM -0500 5/16/97, tom timberlake wrote: > >> since all four of AA Beth's theoretical cats are all part of the same >>being, > >Somebody's been reading GURPS IOU... > >Okay, instead of the nasty 1/4 essence notion (), what >if one is in a part of the world -- a pole, say -- where the >sun either "never sets" or "never rises"? Do you go to the "every >24 hours" thing? If a player of mine finds themself in this situation, I would say, "24 hours since the last Essence generation." For people who ask this question in advance, my response is, "You never regenerate Essence again." Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:00:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Still more Kyriotate/Shedim questions... > The Problem : Can Kyriotates/Shedim possess the vessels of celestials? OK, > sure, the first, instinctive answer is "Sure they can", but let's look a My immediate thought is a definite `no', actually, just on instinct. Kyriotates especially, actually - remember that they can only hold a number of Vessels whose total forces don't exceed their own, so posessing another Celestial (of 9 Forces, at least) would lock them into one body for the duration...if possible, it's certainly going to be extremely uncomfortable and possibly Dissonant in itself. On a more "rules-lawyer" note, I'd just point out that both the Shedim and Kyriotate descriptions specify "living", which I don't think Celestials quite are; the Song of Possession actually takes the moment to specify that it CAN work on Celestials, so the exclusion of that note under the K/S Resonance could be taken as an indication that it doesn't. I might allow it with some serious bonuses...at least adding the Vessel level to the Will of the Celestial resisting, and a Celestial's mind shunted off to the Marches will know what's going on and not be nearly as `bound' to the location as a human would be.. (And if they have multiple Vessels and were kicked out of their current, I'd say they could manifest another immediately. Actually, the way I view Vessels, they wouldn't even need more than one...I don't see why they couldn't manifest a `twin', as it were.) > problem of "does the host get dissonance for the actions taken while being > ridden by a Shedite?" , for instance. Absolutely not, actually; if this is possible, it's possible only because a Vessel is just a Vessel. That'd be almost like saying of a Djinn steals a Mercurian's car and runs someone over the Mercurian should get Dissonance since it was `his' car. The Shedite's actions are still the Shedite. If the Celestial doesn't RESIST, they might have to accept some responsibility, but what're the odds? > demon *that* way, then why can't he just take over the demon, and then make > him dive under a bus, for instance? Would he get dissonance for taking over My actual major query on this would be, "But why bother?" Sheddim ride; Kyriotates expel. So the Kyriotate is going to be the only one in the Vessel when it gets mashed. The Demon's in the Marches, so there's no immediate reason why he should suffer the Trauma of it, or even know immediately what happened. On the side note, that does open the question of using a Kyriotate as a quick way to the Marches, if you want to get people there who don't have Dreamwalking themselves (eg. the Kyrio just hops quick through the bodies of his friends, who all go willingly...then the Kyrio uses his own Song of Dreams to join them.) The problem that leaps to mind is that it seems to be on the order of a random teleport...there's no telling WHERE in the Marches each one will turn up, and the group's bound to be scattered. ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 97 15:57:07 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists - ----Forwarded Message(s)---- Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:17:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: New Role-Playing mailing list: inferno OK, remember when I said I was only going to post one more PBEM related message. This is it, the last one. I've made up a mailing list specifically for in-character role-playing and interaction. The name of the list is inferno. You can subscribe by mailing to: listserv@unc.edu with the message: subscribe inferno your name For example: subscribe inferno Jane Doe Alternately, you can surf the web over to: http://www.unc.edu/courses/ssp/wilp/ Go to "Subscribing to a list" and follow the instructions. This mailing list is vaguely connected to the Eternal Dawn PBEM game I am running, but there are differences: a) It's not a PBEM. The list is unmoderated. b) The list is completely open. Anyone may join any time they like. I don't want to get too much into the setting, since I'm already wasting enough bandwith as it is. You'll get all the background info once you subscribe. So, I hope to see some of you there... Note to the Players of Eternal Dawn You can't join inferno until you've actually been there in the PBEM game. If you have received a PBEM Reply mentioning Inferno in it by name, that's enough information to go visit. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ - ----End Forwarded Message(s)---- ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 97 15:57:01 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> Lillim are Evil! >Date: Thu, 22 May 97 14:38 EDT >From: Walter Milliken >Subject: Re: IN> Redemption for Lilim? > >[johnk:] >> Redeemed or 'Bright' Lilim are indeed possible, though >>very rare. > > >The real question is, are they any rarer than redeemed demons in >general? Not determined at this point. >It seems to me than Lilim are perhaps a little more likely to go for >voluntary Redemption than the average demon -- their intrinsic nature >seems to be a bit less "evil", though they *are* supposed to partake of >their mother's selfishness. This seems most likely with the "Free" >Lilim. "Why can't I work for the Other Side if I want? Aren't I >supposed to be *free*?" Ahhh, the "Lilim are the 'good' diabolicals" position. Just for the sake of argument (and sending Beth into a raging fury ;> ), let's look at some of the reasons why Lilim are demons and what forces keep them from redemption: 1) While Lilith has the Word of Freedom, Lilith has been granted status as a Demon Princess. She doesn't serve Lucifer out of whim. She furthers the Word of Freedom, not for good, but for Lucifer's purposes. This isn't the 'good Freedom' of civil rights and self-determination; this is the 'evil Freedom' of anarchy and licentiousness. Those Lilim who serve Lilith shouldn't forget this. 2) While Lilith's Word is Freedom, which may make her daughters more prone to shrug off the shackles of servitude to Lucifer -- it is equally likely to make them shy away from servitude toward God, let alone an archangel. 3) While Lilith's Word is Freedom, many of the Lilim serve other Princes. A Lilim of Lust is just as corrupt as an Impudite of Lust. Lilim, in and of themselves are not oriented to 'Freedom' -- their 'Mother' is. And when they're not serving their Mother, they're not that connected to Freedom, either the good or bad kind. The Lilim are 'The Tempters', *not* the 'Freedom Fighters'. 4) Even though some Lilim may be serving 'Freedom', their Resonance is still toward inflicting Geasa. Geasa are not *freely* negotiated contracts; they are ways to impose servitude on others. This is not very good sign of being committed to the good kind of Freedom. 5) The Lilim themselves get caught in their own web of inflicting Geasa and trading Geasa on themselves. They wind up owing the wrong kind of people and being forced to do evil. It's hard to work your way out of debt when you're so tempted to use your credit/Geasa card. And they do this all the while rationalizing that they're making fair trades in services -- a Balseraph's doing, no doubt. This is very akin to the compulsive/obsessive addictive behavior of alcoholics and co-dependents -- which, I sure many know how difficult it is to overcome. >On a related note, I've been thinking a bit about "gray" characters in >general -- ones who don't belong to either side entirely. Besides Free >Lilim, there is also the case of Habbalah who've taken a 111 "lashback" >on the Emptiness emotion. They're supposedly no longer deluded about >their nature (and no longer evil?). Until they swear their allegiance to an Archangel, they are Renegades. They may call themselves 'gray', but they are now on Asmodeus'/Dominic's hit list. Hope they enjoy their freedom -- for as long as they live. ;> Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:07:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: IN> New Role-Playing mailing list: inferno This seems to have bounced for some strange reason the first time I sent it, so here it is again: OK, remember when I said I was only going to post one more PBEM related message. This is it, the last one. I've made up a mailing list specifically for in-character role-playing and interaction. The name of the list is inferno. You can subscribe by mailing to: listserv@unc.edu with the message: subscribe inferno your name For example: subscribe inferno Jane Doe Alternately, you can surf the web over to: http://www.unc.edu/courses/ssp/wilp/ Go to "Subscribing to a list" and follow the instructions. This mailing list is vaguely connected to the Eternal Dawn PBEM game I am running, but there are differences: a) It's not a PBEM. The list is unmoderated. b) The list is completely open. Anyone may join any time they like. I don't want to get too much into the setting, since I'm already wasting enough bandwith as it is. You'll get all the background info once you subscribe. So, I hope to see some of you there... Note to the Players of Eternal Dawn You can't join inferno until you've actually been there in the PBEM game. If you have received a PBEM Reply mentioning Inferno in it by name, that's enough information to go visit. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ - ----End Forwarded Message(s)---- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:16:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> The White Witch as Superior Well, here I go again, with apologies as before to perhaps the greatest Christian fantasist of this century. Since nobody's said they want the info on Screwtape as a Prince, I'm not doing it -- but another of C.S. Lewis' demonic characters suggested herself in Superior terms... JADIS, Princess of Winter "The world is a cold and lonely place. Only those with hearts of ice will survive." Almost any Lilim might someday find her way to the Enemy, but not Jadis. After an unhappy term of service under Belial, she set about becoming the opposite of the Prince of Fire. In taking Winter as her Word, she hardened her heart to any risk of Redemption. Ironically, in making herself Belial's opposite, she has become his reflection as well. Her vessel, when she deigns to enter the corporeal realm, is tall and slender, with that heart-stopping Lilim beauty, dressed in white, herself pale as snow from toe to hair save for blood-colored lips. Like the Prince of Fire, she is stylish in the utmost, but unlike him, she'd never be so gauche as to wear an *obvious* weapon with her good dress. Superficially, Jadis is in personality a typical Lilim like many another, outgoing and friendly, bestowing favors on those who serve her. Any prolonged time in her presence, however, quickly reveals this as a facade barely concealing her true coldness. Moreover, those who openly cross her are "privileged" to see her rages, harsh and destructive as a blizzard in the Arctic. This dual nature reflects her view of what "winter" is about -- by turns numbing and shattering. DISSONANCE Jadis' Servitors gain dissonance if they allow their emotions, especially sympathy, to sway colder judgment. BAND ATTUNEMENTS Balseraphs - With a touch, Winter's Liars can instantly freeze anything weighing up to ten times their total Forces in pounds. It doesn't get cold enough that it would shatter if struck, but it will be too cold for anyone not in Winter's service to hold comfortably. The effect lasts for the Balseraph's Ethereal Forces in minutes before the object starts to regain heat. Djinn - The Djinn of Jadis never become obsessed with objects they are attuned to, and can, with a Will roll, impose their own apathy on an attuned person for a number of hours equal to the successful check digit. Calabim - A Calabite of Winter adds his Corporeal Forces and the stronger of his other Forces to the check digit of a successful resonance roll. If he uses his Ethereal Forces, the target freezes from within; if the Celestial Forces are stronger, the target petrifies as if David's Cold Touch attunement were being used on it, only more slowly. Habbalah - A Habbalite of Jadis gains dissonance for creating and projecting any emotion *other* than emptiness, anger or sadness, but he can make the target experience any of these emotions for *days* equal to his Ethereal Forces times the successful check digit. He still, however, runs the risk of dissonance and redemption if he gets a backlash while using emptiness (though not from merely generating it). Lilim - Winter's Lilim add their Ethereal Forces to any attempt to Geas a victim into an act of betrayal. Shedim - A Shedite of Jadis may hold his host at a constant level of corruption, but each day's cruelty must still be in some way different from the day before, involving some evil act the victim hasn't yet done, or dissonance will be gained. Impudites - An Impudite of Winter adds his Ethereal Forces to any Charm attempt made with any form of frozen water within (total Forces) feet), and if he Charms a victim in such circumstances, he can take Essence from him any time thereafter as long as he's got room for it and the victim has Essence to spare. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Heart of Ice Demons with this attunement are immune to cold down to -40 degrees F. In fact, in such conditions, they can recover up to their Corporeal Forces in Body hits. Killing Frost The demon may freeze anything within (6 + Ethereal Forces) feet of his vessel. This power costs 2 Essence, and does 1d damage, for every round it is maintained. Winter's Chill For 7 Essence, the demon with this attunement may call down a blizzard lasting (Ethereal Forces) hours. DISTINCTIONS Knight of the Snows - The demon knows the ambient temperature, and that of anything else within eyesight, to the nearest degree. This effectively functions as infrared vision. Captain of the Blizzard - The Captain may make the palm of his hand as cold as ice (32 degrees F). This is just a touch effect, and not a weapon, but the cold carries over into anything the demon touches. Also, the Captain faces no vision penalties through snow or hail. Baron of the Frozen Wastes - Demons of this rank are immune to all cold down to about 3 kelvins. With a touch, they may grant anyone else this same immunity for (Ethereal Forces) minutes. RELATIONS: Allied: Kronos (Neutral) Associated: Andrealphus (Allied), Haagenti (Neutral), Kobal (Associated), Valefor (Associated) Neutral: Asmodeus (Hostile) Hostile: Vapula (Neutral) Enemy: Belial (Hostile) BASIC RITES: * Freeze four humans solid (not all at once). * Spend an hour in sub-zero temperatures (half an hour at absolute zero, if the demon can handle it). * Spend two hours looking into an open freezer (four hours for a top-freezer). CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 1 MODIFIERS: +1 -- an ice cube +2 -- a block of ice the size of a human head +3 -- in an icehouse +4 -- a tank of liquid nitrogen +5 -- atop a snow-capped mountain +6 -- at the North or South Pole JADIS'S PRINCIPALITY: CAER PARAFEL On the opposite side of Hell from Sheol is the Pit's tallest, coldest mountain. At its peak, from her fortress of Caer Parafel (pronounced Kire [rhymes with fire] Paravel), Jadis rules over the frozen slopes all the way to ground level and for several miles round. Within the bounds of her Principality, which shares her citadel's name, all demons serving her are immune to the perpetual winter she enforces. Human spirits are trapped in the ice, slowly freezing to the feeling of death, watching themselves fall apart from frostbite. Only by giving up their day's Essence can they buy any warmth. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- And there she is. Any questions? Any answers? Anyone for a mint? Austin George "Bouquets, brickbats, sixteen-ton weights?" Loomis ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 97 12:52:45 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Jean Kyrio & Possession >>Anybody care to think about a really high-force Kyrio of Jean >>possessing the Death Star? > >According to the rules, one with 1 force left could do it. >Scary, huh? If one wants to interpret rules literally in a munchkin sort of way, yes. But the 'rules' in question is the FAQ, and when I answered that, the objects in question were non-complex machines -- a toaster, a computer, a car. When you get to more complex objects, they are several one-Force systems working in tandem. A computer is one Force. The printer, another Force. (Although, if you control the computer...) A tank's steering controls is one Force, it's weapons are another, it's computer system a third. The Death Star has over a hundred systems, and thus over a hundred Forces. In the end, the GM can determine the amount of Forces that any object has by either counting the number of systems it has, taking the 'hit points' it has and dividing by four, calling their psychic adviser, or just by using common sense. Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #182 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.