From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 10 14:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19286 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:39:26 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11351 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:06:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:06:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199706101706.MAA11351@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #203 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 203 In this digest: Re: IN> Ofanim to Calabim? Re: IN> Live Actions IN> IN LARP Re: IN> Live Actions Re: IN> Essence Storage and Acquisition Re: IN> Tethers (and a bit of dissonance...) Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> IN:> Adventure Seed: The Old Stomping Grounds Re: IN> But what about OTHER active religions Re: IN> But what about OTHER active religions IN> Hi! I'm new and I've got a question!:) IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> But what about OTHER active religions Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts IN> Tethers IN> Uriel IN> Re: In Nomine Question IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! IN> Do Distinctions follow Attunement rules? Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> Do Distinctions follow Attunement rules? IN> Question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:41:49 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Ofanim to Calabim? Calabim@aol.com wrote: > My best guess is that they actually slow down when they fall. :-) > >> > > IMO, you are dead right. > > Think about it for a moment. What was the old formula for force? > And what gives an Ofanite dissonance? stopping. slowing down. > > What does an object do when it is forcibly stopped? Often a lot of > damage to > whatever stopped it. Mr. Car, meet Mr. Telephone pole. Crunch. > > A Calabim's resonance is what motion becomes when forcibly stopped. > Destruction. > > Indeed they have slowed down, and like the example of Mr. Car & > Telephone > pole they look very different afterwards... This is the kind of discussion I'd like to see when I first subscribed. I think it's this kind of brainstorm that help us all. Thanx! Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Live Actions > I'm a brazilian player of In Nomine (unfortunately, one of few), > and as a player of WoD Live Actions too, I stayed just craze with the > possibility of live actions for In Nomine, can you send me more > information about this stuff. Well, according to the In Nomine upcoming releases page (at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/upcoming.html), SJ Games is planning to release a set of live-action roleplaying rules entitled "The Symphony" in 1998. As a frequent player and occasional GM of live-action games (mostly one-shots with homebrew settings and systems), I'm rather interested to find out how SJ Games' initial foray into the LARP realm turns out. ("Killer" doesn't really count -- pure "assassination games" don't have a whole lot of characterization-roleplay in them, most of the time.) - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:21:04 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> IN LARP That's for everyone who enjoys some modern 'cops&robbers': SJGames will print a LARP version of IN, 'The Symphony', maybe in 1998. The book is stil under development. If you've got some interest in it now, please e-mail me. I'd be glad to hear, answer and comment all of yours messages, questions and suggestions. Be good (or evil), Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:02:11 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Live Actions Tiago_Ali Oliveira_Bueno wrote: > Hello all buddys at sjgames. > I'm a brazilian player of In Nomine (unfortunately, one of few), > > and as a player of WoD Live Actions too, I stayed just craze with the > possibility of live actions for In Nomine, can you send me more > information about this stuff. > Thank all of you for the attention Yeah, by the way I can... I'm working in an adaptation of IN rules for LARP (you all will hear of it soon...:-)) and my group has already come out with some good insights on the matter... If anyone has any ideas, I'd be glad to hear from you guys.I'm involved in the LARP business since '93, and - personally - I think IN LARP will bring back some of the *game* fun of it. Let's wait for it to be true. Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 97 11:32 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Essence Storage and Acquisition >>Not to mention the fact that starting characters can't even scrape >>together 10 Essence at one time, unless they bought a reliquary. > >Au contraire, ma frere... not only do you have the aforementioned Impudite >of Vapula, but you can buy yourself a familiar, which acts like a little >storage battery, too. The canonical "familiar" is a 4-Force Reliever, Imp, >or Gremlin, which would give the PC another 4 Essence to play with, if the >familiar was filled up, of course. I forgot about familiars, but they're really not much different from reliquaries (though maybe a bit cheaper if you want a contrary one -- "Okay now, Pyewacket, give me some Essence, there's a nice kitty...." "No-oow!"). Impudites of Vapula are a special case. I was talking more about the general case. >Any Impudite worth the name will be able to leech Essence from any nearby >humans on a moment's notice, too... if your Impudite goes into a crowd and >*doesn't* come out filled with Essence, he's not trying. True, but that only works for Impudites (and their friends they feed Essence to -- why am I reminded of the "healing machine" stereotype from D&D...?). And except for Vapula's Impudites, and the occasional character with a reliquary/familiar, your typical starting character *still* can't blow 10 Essence in one shot. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:05:48 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Tethers (and a bit of dissonance...) > > Except that, IIRC, Austin's supposed to have 20 (!) tethers. > > (Can't wait to hear the explanation for that one...) > > > There's a good reason... and it's going to be fun. > There are far less than 20 in Austin (as Derek has pointed out). Other, larger, cities have more tethers. Off the top of my head I can't remember the exact numbers, but just in the US I know that New York and LA have quite a few. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 97 11:21 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question >>> > I'm particularly thinking of the case where a Kyrio wants to >>> >possess hosts during combat. Suppose a 9 force Kyrio is in two 1 force >>> >birds: how many more 1 force birds can he possess in one combat round? >>> >1? 2? 7? >>> >>> I would say 2, unless he's also got a celestial form around too, in >>> which case it would be 3. >> >> Strictly by the rules, you can take over as many vessels >>as you have actions which would make your answer correct. It's >>just that most people only have one action a round... >> >> >Yeah but just how many actions does the Kyrio have? 1, one per host, or >some other number? I believe it's one per host (+1 if it's got a celestial form hanging around). This is implied by the Kyrio example, and the special comment about Kyrios under the Song of Projection. That was the basis for my answer above, which John was agreeing with (I think). I don't think it's terrbily abusive, actually, since a Kyrio can only take over a few hosts at a time, unless they're really small (like birds), and you still have to *find* them to take them over. (Birds are probably the easiest case, since they often come in flocks.) And the average Kyrio can only take over 1-2 humans at a time. The other limit to Kyrios abusing the system is that all the hosts share one Essence pool (the Kyrio's), so the Kyrio is mostly limited to actions that don't require Essence. Thus they make very good spies, and decent combat critters (though the need to protect their hosts hurts them there). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:17:42 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> IN:> Adventure Seed: The Old Stomping Grounds > Does anyone has a complete list of attunements for servitors of > Uriel? It's caught my interest... > > > Rites - remove corruption from a place, object or person. > > Basic rites would be good too...:-) Heh. _No one_ has the list of rites and attunements for Uriel... that's still being written. ;) I think a net- version of Uriel might have come by, but I didn't catch it. Check out the one of the compilation webpages to see if someone donated such a thing. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:46:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> But what about OTHER active religions Niall Teasdale wrote: "The Book of Job is about God wrongfully punishing someone and being told off for it. He then relents. (Or so I'm told.) So he isn't always fair." My own take on the Book of Job is more like this: - Satan claims Job only loves God because God gives him a good life. - God gives Satan permission to torment Job, to prove Job will stay faithful even when his life is no good - Job is duly tortured, and is told by his friends that he must have done something awful to deserve this. - Job insists, truthfully, that he did nothing to deserve this. - Job cries out to God, demanding that He explain Himself - God replies, saying, in effect, "Don't speak to Me in that tone of voice! I created the universe and run it. Do you think I don't know what I'm doing? - Job apologizes. - God undoes the effects of Satan's torments. Job never faltered, so God wins His bet with Satan, but neither does Job ever get an explanation, bearing out your next remark: "What He is is ineffable! There's no point in trying to work out what God is doing, because His plans and methods are beyond the ken of anyone else. Even the Archangels don't really understand what He's up to. "I knew reading Good Omens would come in useful eventually!)" A great book, in which the authors point out that God does not, as is famously known, play dice with the universe. "Instead, He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared from the viewpoint of the other players (i.e. everyone) to playing poker in an unlit room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, against a Dealer Who never tells you the rules and SMILES ALL THE TIME." Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 13:07:09 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> But what about OTHER active religions Niall Teasdale wrote: > The Book of Job is about God wrongfully punishing someone and > being told off for it. He then relents. (Or so I'm told.) So he isn't > always fair. If you read it carefully, you'll see that Satan bets Job will curse God if all he has is taken - and God, trusting Job, says that Satan can do whatever he wants, but Job will always be faithful. So, *Satan* goes for it and makes a havoc out of Job's life (Job 1:6-12). After the whole thing, Job is still strong in his faith, discussing with some men who wanted him to curse the name of God in face of all that had happened - and then God speaks to him (in Job 40:8 He is specific about His justice), rewards him for being faithful during the probation and still has some time to punish the men who were themselves cursing His name (Job 42:7). So, that's the way it is: You are good, God is good. You are bad...well, God has created evil. He *knows* how to get the most of it.... > What He is is ineffable! There's no point in trying to work out what > God is doing, because His plans and methods are beyond the > ken of anyone else. Even the Archangels don't really understand > what He's up to. That's right - His mind, in Genesis, are of a just-born baby: You can't tell what He's up to. But He is a damn (ops!) fast learner. And you can learn from His actions too... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:18:58 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: IN> Hi! I'm new and I've got a question!:) Hi guys!:) I just picked up _In Nomine_ on Saturday, and was so impressed that a game is already being prepared here at Mr. Jefferson's Resort, and it pushed Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. right out the window. Oh well. It even got the Rifts-ies to stop reading the 3,234,235 supplements that Rifts has and spend their time bugging me to borrow my copy of IN, the only one the game store had.:) ANYWAYS, I've been reading all the FAQs and Digests and everything that I could find, and I had one little ole question about vessels that I hadn't found anywhere else. I see where the level of the vessel affects how many Body hits it has. Is that all the level of a vessel does? It seems to me that it should affect more then just that, if not also the physical nature of the vessel, or whatever. I dunno. I'm still learning . SeanMike being a slacker at work - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 18:50:44 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> Seeing Artifacts On page 42 is a box describing the perception of artifacts by sight and touch. Sight has the capability of making artifacts too dangerous to use, depending on how it's interpreted. So my question is, exactly how obvious are artifacts? Maybe I can be clearest by analogy to normal vision: Brilliant strobe light: you'll see an artifact even through smoked glass out of the corner of your eye. Bright light: you can see an artifact through smoked glass if you are looking in that direction. Light: you can see an artifact through smoked glass if you're looking carefully. Day-glow color: you can only see the object in conditions a mundane could see it, but it will catch your eye if you see it directly even peripherally. Bright color: It catches your eye if you're looking generally in its direction. Distinctive color: you notice it if you look right at it. Labeled, "This is an artifact," in black and white: you see it only if you specifically look at the artifact. IOW, the PC has to ask, is the object an artifact? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:08:36 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> But what about OTHER active religions Earl Wajenberg wrote: > "Instead, He plays > an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared from > the viewpoint of the other players (i.e. everyone) to playing poker > in an unlit room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, against > a Dealer Who never tells you the rules and SMILES ALL THE TIME." That's close to what I had in mind (Have you all realized how, in some contexts, *smiling* can look essentially evil?? Read above and tell me if I'm not right...)... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:02:00 -0700 (MST) From: shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question >> Speaking of big sad Kyrios, here's another big sad Kyrio question: How >> many combat actions does a Kyrio get per round? One per host? One per >> force? I'm particularly thinking of the case where a Kyrio wants to >> possess hosts during combat. Suppose a 9 force Kyrio is in two 1 force >> birds: how many more 1 force birds can he possess in one combat round? >> 1? 2? 7? > > One per host. Cool, eh? ;) Yes, it can awfully ugly, but >remember that EACH of the vessels has to be returned no worse for >wear. A lot of small vessels is just _asking_ for dissonance. > > Yeah, but the thought of nine birds with CorpF of 5 dive bombing some poor defensless demon.... Besides, that's what the Song of Corporeal Healing is for. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:02:02 -0700 (MST) From: shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question [John Karakash said...] >> Yeah but just how many actions does the Kyrio have? 1, one per host, or >> some other number? > > One per host. > Does that include Songs? I hope not. That would be way to grossly powerful. If there is a split in *types* of actions (and even though I tend prefer Kyrios I think there should be), then where should it be? OTOH, allowing one Song per host is offset by the fact that the Kyrio would blow a *lot* of Essense in one shot. I can think of three catagories but they may actually be ordered differently. 1) Physical or Skill based actions 2) Resonance/Attunments 3) Songs I can see that it's pretty clear that 1) is a one per host type of action and for play balance it might be best to make 3) a one per "entity" type of action. However, I can see arguments both ways for 2). -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:12:48 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts On Jun 9, 6:50pm, Walt Mazur wrote: > Subject: IN> Seeing Artifacts > On page 42 is a box describing the perception of artifacts by sight > and touch. Sight has the capability of making artifacts too dangerous > to use, depending on how it's interpreted. So my question is, exactly > how obvious are artifacts? Maybe I can be clearest by analogy to > normal vision: > > Brilliant strobe light: you'll see an artifact even through smoked > glass out of the corner of your eye. > > Bright light: you can see an artifact through smoked glass if you are > looking in that direction. > > Light: you can see an artifact through smoked glass if you're looking > carefully. > > Day-glow color: you can only see the object in conditions a mundane > could see it, but it will catch your eye if you see it directly even > peripherally. > > Bright color: It catches your eye if you're looking generally in its > direction. > > Distinctive color: you notice it if you look right at it. > > Labeled, "This is an artifact," in black and white: you see it only if > you specifically look at the artifact. IOW, the PC has to ask, is the > object an artifact? Heh. Interesting analogies. I'd say that it is in the 'distinctive color' category most of the time but let it slip upwards on the chart depending on dramatic necessity and the power of the artifact. In my campaign if I describe someone, I won't give the PC's a chance to detect artifacts unless they say something like, "I examine his clothing and weapons" or "I look at the contents of the suitcase." I _do_ allow a roll if anyone unwittingly _touches_ an artifact, though! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 97 16:57:40 PDT From: Christopher Paul Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts - - --Your message was: (from w_mazur@primenet.com) > On page 42 is a box describing the perception of artifacts by sight > and touch. Sight has the capability of making artifacts too dangerous > to use, depending on how it's interpreted. So my question is, exactly > how obvious are artifacts? This is one that has bothered me a bit, too. I mean, it seems that a major part of the game, regardless which side you are on, is keeping your nature a secret from the other side as long as possible. Carrying a visible artifact, if highly visible, would be like carrying a flag that says "celestial!!!" on it. I've dealt with it in two ways: 1) "Brightness" depends on the level (and, more abstractly, the general "mightiness" of the artifact). 2) If someone uses the artifact, it is pretty obvious to celestially aware observers that it is an artifact, and that it did something. 3) Non-mighty, non-large artifacts (in my game) are concealable in the same way that guns are concealable. Put it in your coat pocket. Someone looks at you, they don't see anything, generally. Someone gives a a good looking over (and gets a high check on a perception roll), in the same way that they might notice the bulge of a gun, they're gonna notice the "glow" or "essenece leak" that might be an artifact. Again, like the gun, they're not going to know what kind until they get a good look at it. And, when that demon whips out his helblitzen handcannon, calibre .666 and points it at you, it pretty much screams "artifact!" The one that really bothers me is the impudites of Vapula, who get these great essence seeing glasses, but have to wear them right on their face! So far, I've made these fairly difficult to notice as artifacts, given their "passive" nature, I figure they blend in against the background noise in the symphony unless you are really looking, or catch them in the right light (high check required, or penalty to perception roll, or both.) How are other people dealing with "artifact glow" practically? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:06:05 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Tethers >>>How does Doc Savage cope with the changes of metaphysical landlord? His secret headquarters are on the 100th floor, you know.<<< He doesn't notice. The Tether is actually on the 103rd floor. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:06:03 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel >>>Does anyone has a complete list of attunements for servitors of Uriel? It's caught my interest...<<< Yes. My write-up isn't available right now, but since it's not official yet either, maybe other people have versions they will post? >>>Basic rites would be good too...:-)<<< Since Uriel is no longer an active Superior, his remaining Servitors don't get to use his Rites. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:26:00 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Re: In Nomine Question > Basically, my question is one of ressonances. I am contemplating playing a Balseraph of Kronos and wanted to take the ressonance/dissodance of a Kyriotate and be able to possess a number of beings at once. My question is that now that my Balseraph has chosen to be like a Kyriotate, does it lose it's base corpreal vessel and have to constantly possess other beings like a Kyriotate, or does it have one or more vessels that it can use as a normal Balseraph and just have option of using several as well as possessing more (limited by total forces of course) at one time? > So I guess, in a nutshell, my question is would the Balseraph of Kronos be 'bodiless' like a Kyriotate if it chose to emmulate their strange resonance? > > Thanks for your advice/insight in advance and if I am directing this letter to the wrong person, then I apologize for bothering you. I'm the right person, this is just the wrong venue. ;) SJG encourages questions to go to the mailing list. Of course since not everyone is subscribed to the mailing list, I'm available. Many questions have been answered and are resident in the FAQ... but this isn't one of them. I would say that the Balseraph is bound by everything listed in the Resonance/Dissonance sections of the Kyriotate description and any relevant text in the Game Mechanics section. So the Balseraph could not buy a vessel and would have all the other restrictions of a Kyriotate. (Note that since the Manner and Appearance is not included in the Balseraph of Kronos' description, the 'stunning' affect is not available when in Celestial form). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:40:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! This is probably been covered before but here goes anyway. Two angels break into an apartment that belongs to a demon. In the apartment they find a body bag with a vessel in it. One angel asks to vacate his own vessel, steal the vessel in the bag, put his vessel in the bag and then steal the bag. Afterwards he plans to pay the demon's fiendish friends a visit wearing the demon's form! Can this be done? How would this work in terms of character points? - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:15:56 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> Do Distinctions follow Attunement rules? I can't find an explicit statement of how Distinctions operate. By Attunement rules, automatically successful and effective after one combat round? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:15:46 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:02:00 -0700 (MST), shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) wrote: >Yeah, but the thought of nine birds with CorpF of 5 dive bombing some poor >defensless demon.... > >Besides, that's what the Song of Corporeal Healing is for. The Song of Healing doesn't heal dead. Maybe you could make friends with a Demon of Saminga so he can restore them as Zombi! :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:16:08 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:12:48 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: > Heh. Interesting analogies. I'd say that it is in >the 'distinctive color' category most of the time but let it >slip upwards on the chart depending on dramatic necessity and >the power of the artifact. Ooh...cool idea. Artifact/1's are hard to see; Artifact/6's glow in the dark. :) While I'm thinking of Artifacts, what's the difference between Holy and Unholy Bullets and Pistols? If an Angel gets hit by a Holy Bullet or a Demon by an Unholy Bullet, what happens? Harmless? Normal? > In my campaign if I describe someone, I won't give >the PC's a chance to detect artifacts unless they say something >like, "I examine his clothing and weapons" or "I look at the >contents of the suitcase." I _do_ allow a roll if anyone >unwittingly _touches_ an artifact, though! Yep. Makes sense. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:15:50 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:02:02 -0700 (MST), shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) wrote: >[John Karakash said...] >>> Yeah but just how many actions does the Kyrio have? 1, one per host, or >>> some other number? >> >> One per host. >> >Does that include Songs? I hope not. That would be way to grossly >powerful. If there is a split in *types* of actions (and even though I tend >prefer Kyrios I think there should be), then where should it be? > >OTOH, allowing one Song per host is offset by the fact that the Kyrio would >blow a *lot* of Essense in one shot. > >I can think of three catagories but they may actually be ordered differently. > >1) Physical or Skill based actions >2) Resonance/Attunments >3) Songs > >I can see that it's pretty clear that 1) is a one per host type of action >and for play balance it might be best to make 3) a one per "entity" type of >action. However, I can see arguments both ways for 2). I think songs aren't especially unbalancing: you have to spend a point or two of essence per song, and a Kyrio is going to have a hard time keeping possession of a reliquary. Resonance has already been answered since a kyrio's resonance is to possess a host; no big deal since the Kyrio will usually run out of Forces. Attunements that are offensive generally require essence to be spent; only a couple choir attunements seem to offer a big advantage to a Kyrio flock, and they're only available at GM option. A couple Distinctions could be trouble, but they're at the Master level, also only by GM option. Still, I could see limiting Attunement use to once per turn, or limiting Attunements so, for example, Gabriel's Malakim attunement could only use the Kyrio's Celestial Forces once instead of once per host. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:25:03 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question > > > > One per host. Cool, eh? ;) Yes, it can awfully ugly, but > >remember that EACH of the vessels has to be returned no worse for > >wear. A lot of small vessels is just _asking_ for dissonance. > > > > > Yeah, but the thought of nine birds with CorpF of 5 dive bombing some poor > defensless demon.... > > Besides, that's what the Song of Corporeal Healing is for. You obviously haven't seen what a flamethrower can do to a flock pigeons. Ugly. Messy. And the smell! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:23:43 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question On Jun 9, 5:02pm, Jeff Miller wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question > [John Karakash said...] > >> Yeah but just how many actions does the Kyrio have? 1, one per host, or > >> some other number? > > > > One per host. > > > Does that include Songs? I hope not. That would be way to grossly > powerful. If there is a split in *types* of actions (and even though I tend > prefer Kyrios I think there should be), then where should it be? > > OTOH, allowing one Song per host is offset by the fact that the Kyrio would > blow a *lot* of Essense in one shot. That's basically it. Kyriotates claim to fame is their multiplicity. Malakim beat the snot out of things, Mercurians get chummy with humans, and Kyriotates can sing three part harmony with themselves. ;) It doesn't really get unbalancing because small vessels means a _much_ greater chance that the Kyriotate will be hurting for Essence to heal all those bodies when the combat is done (small vessels take more damage per blow). There are probably going to be special rules limiting Kyriotates when they are divided between the planes of reality, though. Somehow I managed to overlook the little parenthetical statement on p. 103 about the Kyriotate manifesting on multiple planes. Ouch! Stay tuned for more answers about the most troublesome choir! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:49:23 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Big Sad Kyrio Question > Still, I could see limiting Attunement use to once per turn, or > limiting Attunements so, for example, Gabriel's Malakim attunement > could only use the Kyrio's Celestial Forces once instead of once per > host. Aw, c'mon! Can you imagine it? Hordes of FLAMING GREEN PIGEONS attacking some demon... wow! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:30:27 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! On Jun 10, 1:40am, Calabim@aol.com wrote: > Subject: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > This is probably been covered before but here goes anyway. > > Two angels break into an apartment that belongs to a demon. In the apartment > they find a body bag with a vessel in it. One angel asks to vacate his own > vessel, steal the vessel in the bag, put his vessel in the bag and then steal > the bag. Afterwards he plans to pay the demon's fiendish friends a visit > wearing the demon's form! > > Can this be done? How would this work in terms of character points? The only way to 'steal' vessels is to by a Kyriotate/Shedim or have the Song of Possession. This said, it is _quite_ possible. Both the resonances and the Song have a limited amount of time, so work fast (i.e. you can't get a free vessel out of this). You can still keep the bag, though. O=) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:51:48 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts > While I'm thinking of Artifacts, what's the difference between Holy > and Unholy Bullets and Pistols? If an Angel gets hit by a Holy Bullet > or a Demon by an Unholy Bullet, what happens? Harmless? Normal? Frighteningly, there _is_ no difference in damage. Pow! Ouch! The only difference is what type of gun can fire any particular bullet. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:13:17 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts >The one that really bothers me is the impudites of Vapula, who get these >great essence seeing glasses, but have to wear them right on their face! Actually, I kinda liked that idea. I imagine each Impudite's glasses look different, matching their own personality - some have thin wire frame designer glasses, some bulky black plastic 50s style, etc. It almost makes me want to generate an Impudite of Vapula NPC for my upcoming campaign, just so he can say, "You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses on, would you?" > How are other people dealing with "artifact glow" practically? Dramatic effect. If they need to find an artifact, they'll see it easier. If they're distracted or not paying attention, they won't always realize it's an artifact unless it's something of the caliber of the painting from the introductory stories. It usually takes action to realize it's an artifact; note that no one in the story seemed to know that Adam's car was an artifact of Valupa until they rammed the Barney-mobile (hey, it was described as ugly and purple!) SeanMike - -- We were put on this Earth to suffer; we each have our own private pain. We must pass this pain onto our brother, a neverending cycle starts again. - Techno Destructo, "The Private Pain of Techno Destructo" I'm locked and loaded, and you'll have to pay - "Back to Iraq" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:47:29 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Do Distinctions follow Attunement rules? On Jun 10, 7:15am, Walt Mazur wrote: > Subject: IN> Do Distinctions follow Attunement rules? > I can't find an explicit statement of how Distinctions operate. By > Attunement rules, automatically successful and effective after one > combat round? The Distinctions work differently on a case-by-case basis. Unless specified, none require a roll. Any _active_ Distinction (e.g. Vassals of Fire's ability to raise or lower the temperature of a fire) require a round to perform. Passive ones (e.g. Vassals of Stone's ability to not be hurt by earth or stone) are automatic and continuous. Some that seem active are really passive (e.g. Masters of the Granite Hand get to multiply their check digit by the angel's Corporeal Forces. The _active_ part is making the attack. The Distinction is _passive_ and merely multiplies the amount of damage.) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:52:59 -0400 From: Chris Coghlan Subject: IN> Question. Can a celestial gain forces after chacter creation? If yes, then how? Chris ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #203 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.