From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 12 18:26:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28131 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:26:41 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17805 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:12:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:12:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199706122112.QAA17805@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #207 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 12 1997 Volume 01 : Number 207 In this digest: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> ...And I Thought I'd Never Ask a Kyrio Question... Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! IN> ED> Re: Joshua & Tan's next move Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> Mercurians Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Raphael RE: IN> Raphael RE: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> ...And I Thought I'd Never Ask a Kyrio Question... Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) Re: IN> ...And I Thought I'd Never Ask a Kyrio Question... Re: IN> need help!! Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain Re: IN> Loose Thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 2) IN> Djinn IN> Character Types IN> Valar and Archangels Re: IN> Music, maestro? IN> Smif Re: IN> Music, maestro? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:13:25 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands > Interesting. Do the favoured Choir/Band correspond, in general? In > other words, do people prefer, say, Seraphim and Balseraphs, or Depends. I love Seraphs and can't stand Balseraphs for the same reason I like Seraphs so much. But I dislike Shedim and Kyriotates both for the same reason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:03:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) > > > Batman - Seraph of Dominic. > > No way! Batman lies ALL the time about what he's up to. > I agree Jon....Batman is more like a Cherubim I normally stay out of these, but...Batman is more like a Renegade Djinn, if you ask me. (Could make for a good rolemodel for whoever was worried that Djinn are too hard to play, too - remember, as described, Djinn only PRETEND not to care for anything.) (Albert, on the other hand, is Yves.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:40:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! John Karakash concluded; > > >so work fast (i.e. you can't get a free vessel out of this). You > > >can still keep the bag, though. O=) > > > > Ok. So does an unoccupied vessel have any Will at all? > > My, my, my. I'd have to say it doesn't have any Will. I don't know; basing somewhat on the effects of buying a Corporeal Artifact, I'd be inclined to give it some kind of resistance based on the Level the Vessel was purchased at...(Or, depending, the Level of the Body Bag.) Stealing one out of the Bag also seems to present another problem to me; specifically, that Vessel is only existing in any `corporeal' form because it's supported by the bag, and it's in stasis there. So if you possess it INSIDE the Bag, you're in stasis. Hope the owner's in a good mood when he finds you there...it's probably a bit worse than the idiots who `break' into the back seats of police cars hoping to steal guns only to find that those lock automatically from the inside and no, they DON'T keep guns in the same place they stick prisoners.. Alternatively, you pull the body out, and..poof. This might annoy the owner who now has an empty Body Bag and no ready Vessel to pop into, but doesn't do you much good in terms of stealing it. {Incidentally, on a somewhat related note, there's the comment that as zombis have no Will to resist commands anyway, there's no point buying them as higher than Level/1 servants - I'd like to propose that it WOULD be worth buying to give them resistance against taking orders from anyone ELSE..} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:25:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain > You notice angel/demon things everywhere you go! And I mean *everywhere*! > (I never *knew* there were so many celestial in-jokes surrounding me...) Well, I have to admit, it can get pretty bad...but as long as you don't try invoking your Resonance on someone, I think you're OK. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:32:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts > It almost makes me want to generate an Impudite of Vapula NPC for my > upcoming campaign, just so he can say, "You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses > on, would you?" It's just when the Angel hesitates, and the Impudite gives them that nasty grin and says, "Besides, feather-boy...you've only got two Essence left," and whops them with a Song of Entropy. > artifact; note that no one in the story seemed to know that Adam's car was > an artifact of Valupa until they rammed the Barney-mobile (hey, it was > described as ugly and purple!) Of course, they may just have flubbed their perception rolls, but...on the whole, I think recognizing Artifacts, by sight or by touch, requires SOME degree of conscious effort. (Even an, "I look around the room for anything unusual" probably qualifies, but...) {Impudites of Vapula are a big exception again, of course, with Reliquaries, since any object with its own store of Essence is going to stand out.} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:24:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> ...And I Thought I'd Never Ask a Kyrio Question... Andre Ribeiro > Well, anyway, how do you guys manage to be GM of a troupe of Angels > *and* Demons? I got a strong reason (one of the characters is the son of There are a lot of quick fixes for it, most of which have already been touched on (`bigger threat', `special circumstances', etc.) Similar to the idea of having to band together against some outside threat is the suggestion hinted at in the book to note that sometimes, their Superiors might actually ORDER it..(Asmodeus and Dominic making their Servitors get together to hunt down a troublesome band of Outcasts and Renegades is the easy one. Malpheas might have one of his cooperating regularly with Angels just because it disrupts other Demonic plans, and, knowing that, several of the Archangels might go along with this. And Malpheas is hardly the ONLY Demon Prince (or Archangel, for that matter) with an interest in interfering with his fellow Superiors..) Another somewhat limited option is deception...if you've only got one person wanting to play a Demon in an all-Angelic party, for example, catch them aside for a bit and offer them the Humanity Attunement free if they'll run a Servitor of Asmodeus pretending to be a Soldier of God...(I know, that's ten character points; it's also a major challenge for the player and a great opportunity for the GM. I wouldn't consider it unfair, myself.) Unfortunately, most of those may be fine for a one-shot, but aren't going to help too much for a long-term campaign. (Deception is the only one I can see as an option for setting up in the long term, and if there's a Seraph in the group, that's hardly a given -- a Balseraph could still hold up for a while, given that the Seraph would need to get at least a 5 Check Digit against him to expose it, and presumably even Seraphim of Dominic can only invoke their Resonance against their own team so often..) Anyway, if you're setting up for a real campaign, there are two points. One, a lot of these people KNEW each other before the Fall. (eg. Nicole and Marcus per the Bright/Dark Dream) Granting that those two weren't, a lot of old pairs may still be friends. Two, in any long term conflict (and I think this qualifies,) people from the two sides are occasionally going to get together and find out they get along pretty well, really. {The short story on the list recently about the Interlude in Austin had some good basis for that, though offhand I don't know where you could still find it.} The main point to keep in mind is that everyone involved is probably going to have to keep it hushed up around the Superiors, if possible. (Depending on the Superiors, anyway. Dominic or Asmodeus, forget it. But a lot of the others it might at least be possible to present it in a `positive' light -- eg. you're working with them to try to lead them on the "right" path, whichever that may be. (Even Baal would probably be open to his Servitors hanging out with Angels for the opportunity to pick up intelligence..)) Malakim are a problem, of course, though I still say there are ways around that, some more compromised than others. (My Malakim of Novalis I consider emminently workable, but I admit most ways of claiming they might not have to kill demons right away get to be pretty stretched.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:45:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > Two angels break into an apartment that belongs to a demon. In the apartment > they find a body bag with a vessel in it. One angel asks to vacate his own > vessel, steal the vessel in the bag, put his vessel in the bag and then steal > the bag. Afterwards he plans to pay the demon's fiendish friends a visit > wearing the demon's form! Heh heh. Oh, if I were GM, I'd -DEFINITELY- allow this one. Bear with me here.. Angel steals Demonic vessel, puts his own in Demon's body bag. Angels leave apartment and go visit Demon's cohorts. Meanwhile, off-stage, the Demon in question runs afoul of a Djinn and a pair of Malakim. Gets whupped. Demon's soul, of course, immediately reverts to Vessel in body bag... (this is even BETTER if the Angels are `smart' enough to bring the Bag with 'em..."Oh, hi, Tod." [Doubletake] "Um, wait...if you're Tod, then who...whoops.") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:18:34 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> ED> Re: Joshua & Tan's next move Paul, For the next part of Joshua's story I've contacted Rogue and he's agreed to help with the death cult. He also has decided that we need more help and has said that he's going to recruit some more allies. I think this means he is going to get every other Malakim in the game to come help bash the cult. Don't quote me on this though (but it does make any self-respecting Lilim kind of nervous *grin*). Either way, I'm not sure how long it's going to take to get this together, so I'm asking in advance if it's okay to hand this move in a little late? We may not need to, but then again we may. Anyway, let me know. Thanks, Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:38:41 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands James Rand wrote: > [ODie wrote:] > > Interesting. Do the favoured Choir/Band correspond, in general? In > > other words, do people prefer, say, Seraphim and Balseraphs, or > > Depends. I love Seraphs and can't stand Balseraphs for the same > reason I like Seraphs so much. But I dislike Shedim and Kyriotates > both for the same reason. > I would be hard pressed to choose favourites, but I do like the style of the Elohim, and there's something about the Habbalah, sick little puppies that they are, that makes me really appreciate them as a Band. As it is I only get to GM, and so find myself a little jealous of my players, at times :( Kyriotates look to me to be one of the most fun and challenging of the Choirs though. I _know_ my Kyrio player is having a ball; he really wants to play in the Wraith game that is starting up in our club at the same time as my IN game, and just couldn't abandon Alphidor right now. Especially when he's finally got Yves to deign to acknowledge his existence (formerly served Eli). I do think that the Lilim would be a very cool band to play, in a lot of ways. The wheeling and dealing and struggle to get out of the ever increasing webs of debt and geas are intriguing. Also the slim, and much over-used possibility of redemption is possibly attractive. Still and all, Elo's and Habb's do strike me as sooo much fun. Esp. the "I mess with your head" bits... Dunno, maybe that says something about me. Another tangential thought; Habbalah (despite, or perhaps even because of, their being evil) would make for pretty stunning GMs, when you think about it. After all, how much more effective would the GM be if they could force you to experience what your character is feeling. Hm, on second thoughts... And despite whinging about only getting to GM, not play, that does mean that I get to play the Superiors, and this is a bit of a kick in itself. Something my players can be jealous of I guess ;p Decoy Signal, ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:52:56 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Kingsley Lintz wrote: > > > Two angels break into an apartment that belongs to a demon. In the > > apartment they find a body bag with a vessel in it. One angel asks > > to vacate his own vessel, steal the vessel in the bag, put his > > vessel in the bag and then steal the bag. Afterwards he plans to > > pay the demon's fiendish friends a visit wearing the demon's form! > Heh heh. Oh, if I were GM, I'd -DEFINITELY- allow this one. Bear > with me here.. > Angel steals Demonic vessel, puts his own in Demon's body bag. > Angels leave apartment and go visit Demon's cohorts. > Meanwhile, off-stage, the Demon in question runs afoul of a Djinn > and a pair of Malakim. Gets whupped. > Demon's soul, of course, immediately reverts to Vessel in body > bag... > > (this is even BETTER if the Angels are `smart' enough to bring the Bag > with 'em..."Oh, hi, Tod." [Doubletake] "Um, wait...if you're Tod, > then who...whoops.") Hoo hoo hoo! I smell an adventure coming on here! Body swapping without the Kyriotate character being involved ;p ;p ;p Decoy run, ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:09:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Johnson Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, ZZ No Mail - dpo (leave) wrote: > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >--Kamakazi, Lilim of Dark Humor > > Would't that be "kamikaze"? Or is "divine wind" one that > belongs to Janus? Haagenti? It's an attunement of Yuki no Onna's actually. Trust me on this one. :-) (Just got to write it up, now...) - -- Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:08:17 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands When I was a child, one of the village elders came to me and said: > I would be hard pressed to choose favourites, but I do like the style of > the Elohim, and there's something about the Habbalah, sick little > puppies that they are, that makes me really appreciate them as a Band. +++++++++ > As it is I only get to GM, and so find myself a little jealous of my > players, at times :( ++++++++ My friend: As a GM, you get to play /everyone/. How about a Habbalah NPC? - ------- zingaro@peak.org Gabe's a choad. He's in Choadville. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:53:36 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: Re: IN> Raphael > Damiano *calls* Raphael "seraph" as a kind of nickname or affectionate > honorific, but at one point, at least, reflects that Raphael is not > really a seraph. Raphael is more often called an "archangel," one > of a traditional set of four, along with Michael, Gabriel, and Uriel. > I don't remember clearly, but Satan may be depicted as a fallen > archangel. At least, Raphael speaks of Satan as his estranged > brother. > I have never read the series in question, but according to what I recall form seminary classes [Lewis & Oliver's _Angels A to Z_ supports me], the two lowest classes of angels [Angels and Archangels] were the only ones who had any contact with humans. Seraphs never had to sully their hands with the creations of dirt. - ------- zingaro@peak.org Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 08:15:57 UT From: "Hermes Trismegistus" Subject: RE: IN> Raphael > "To do him from those novels (rather than from Biblical canon), I'd > probably do him as a Seraph of Beauty (or of Music)..." >That would be fine (waiving the issue of choir). I'd specify music. >Working from the book of Tobit, where Raphael first appears, if I >recall correctly, I'd make him an angel of healing and/or exorcism. >Earl Wajenberg I posted a writeup for Raphael ages ago, if it helps or you want to fix it for me, send me a note and I'll pass him on. BTW I went for the archetypal AA of Healing (although only one person responded to the post and he didn't seem to like it so much). Kurt doombu@msn.com Swamped by Email, Stumped by Newsgroups, Baffled by Java ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 07:35:51 UT From: "Hermes Trismegistus" Subject: RE: IN> Choirs and Bands >I was talking about this with Micah up at SJG the other day. It seems as >though everyone has two Choirs and Bands that they really feel an affinity >for, two Choirs and Bands that they have strong feelings against, and can >generally take or leave the rest. >Derek Derek has a very good point here, it seems that way from talking to all the players I know. As for my preferences, I really like the Seraphim, Cherubim and the Impudites & Balseraphs, absolutley hate the Malakim and Lilim & Shedim, and really am ambivalent about the rest. Does anyone else think that this is probably the same for Superiors? I would probably only ever serve Jean or Yves (being a techie), although in Hell this theory falls down because I really do like Kobal, Saminga, Haagenti and Nybbas, with Vapula well upo there too. They are just so much FUN. And for Superiors I hate, well Blandine & Dominic, and in Hell Beleth and Lilith. If it looks like I'm on a Lilim bash, you're probably right. I think they are too easy to abuse, and all of the posts about "Lilim aren't evil, they're just misunderstood" did nothing to change my opinion. Malakim I could be swayed on (as some of the ones metioned on the list are pretty cool sounding). }:-) <--Smiley Calabite Kurt "The world is like an oyster A pearl is the time A fortune watitng for you, So clam up and die" TISM - Kill Yourself Now & Avoid the Rush ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:23:00 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> ...And I Thought I'd Never Ask a Kyrio Question... Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Andre Ribeiro > > Well, anyway, how do you guys manage to be GM of a troupe of > Angels > > *and* Demons? > Anyway, if you're setting up for a real campaign, there are > two > points. One, a lot of these people KNEW each other before the Fall. This sounds cool - I think I'll stick with it. You don't terminate a friendship just because one of you... well... Fell, do you?? Nah, I bet you don't... :-) Seriously, I liked the idea. Thank everybody for all the hints. I'll let you know what'll happen. Andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:30:33 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Damian O'Dea wrote: > I would be hard pressed to choose favourites, but I do like the style > of > the Elohim, and there's something about the Habbalah, sick little > puppies that they are, that makes me really appreciate them as a Band. > > As it is I only get to GM, and so find myself a little jealous of my > players, at times :( Hey, what NPCs are for ?!? :-) > And despite whinging about only getting to GM, not play, that does > mean > that I get to play the Superiors, and this is a bit of a kick in > itself. > Something my players can be jealous of I guess ;p Yeah - I watched again The Ten Commandments before GMing my first Archangel and my players... well, they will never forget it. Andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:21:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands > > As it is I only get to GM, and so find myself a little jealous of my > > players, at times :( > ++++++++ > My friend: > As a GM, you get to play /everyone/. How about a Habbalah NPC? I would agree with this statement. Go for it; you'll love it. I wasn't very excited about habbalah until I played a habbalim of Technology in a 1on1 Feast of Blades ran by my wife. I had an absolute blast! Of course, it was hard to keep a sraight face when Vapula showed up at the end with mirrorshades, a nasty grin, and a horkin' _huge_ flourescent green raygun... Oops da Ogre, Jean's a blue-nosed weenie! PS- For those who have trouble figuring out how to play a djinn: if you've ever had a really bad crush on someone, but knew that it wouldn't work out for some reason, and therefore tried your best to not let it show, you need no further example. To those who do, perhaps Helga Pataki on Nick's "Hey Arnold!" could shed some light on the mindset. That said, don't forget that not every djinn has to act just like the generalizations in the book. After all, I have a mercurian of Jordi that sees humans as only something to manipulate in order to benefit the wildlife of the world, which is what he really loves. > zingaro@peak.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:35:28 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands On Jun 11, 10:13pm, James Rand wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands > > Interesting. Do the favoured Choir/Band correspond, in general? In > > other words, do people prefer, say, Seraphim and Balseraphs, or > > Depends. I love Seraphs and can't stand Balseraphs for the same > reason I like Seraphs so much. But I dislike Shedim and Kyriotates > both for the same reason. Heh. Top of my 'Like' list are Kyriotates and Lilim. Top of the 'dislike' list are Elohim and Habbalah. Make of that what you will... ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:31:27 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) On Jun 12, 7:22am, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) > John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > > > Batman - Seraph of Dominic. > > > > No way! Batman lies ALL the time about what he's up to. > > > Hmmm... actually, _Bruce_Wayne_ lies about what he's up to, but Batman > rarely does... if you make that distinction it makes sense, but you do > make a good objection. Heh. If I were 'Bruce's' GM I would look askance at anyone trying to weasel out of their essential nature in such a way. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:49:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> ...And I Thought I'd Never Ask a Kyrio Question... Andre Ribeiro wrote: "You don't terminate a friendship just because one of you... well... Fell, do you?? Nah, I bet you don't... :-)" The TV series "Touched By An Angel" includes occasional appearances by a fallen angel who was once a friend to the main characters. In that case, the fallen one certainly no longer feels any friendship toward her unfallen acquaintances, and she knows all their hot buttons. On the other hand, the angels know HER hot buttons, and she went ballistic when one of them started praying that God forgive her. There is also a mildly interesting portrayal of an angel of death (one of many). Of course, you have to tolerate the show's level of sentimentality. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:29:55 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> need help!! On Jun 11, 4:04pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > Subject: IN> need help!! > > This is a tough one for me, so I thought some of you might be able to help. > In my game, my players have met a lilim who is trying to become bright. > The problem is that she owes 4 more geasa. Here's the problem, I have > come up with good ones for two, but the other two are gonna be a bitch. > Both for me and my players. The ones I would like input on are one for > Lilith herself, and the Big D, Lucifer. These need to be tricky, I have a > very clever seraph of dominic playing in the group. There's no prizes for > this but the satisfaction of knowing people will be enjoying your ideas. > > think about these, please. (meta)suggestions: Have someone 'collect' the Geasa to make one LARGE one. Have fun! Put the angels on the run for some reason and have the evil one (whoever that is) call in level/1 Geasa to track down the party. Have the Lilim have sex with someone at a party. It turns out later that the person is a politician and someone is blackmailing him into making very bad (evil) decisions (Lilim are, of course, quite photogenic!) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands (Note from Truss to anyone who's playing in his upcoming IN campaign -- Anne, Eric, Marian, Ford, Josh, etc. -- I don't think any of you read this mailing list, but if I'm wrong, DON'T READ THIS MESSAGE. 'k?) > >I was talking about this with Micah up at SJG the other day. It seems as > >though everyone has two Choirs and Bands that they really feel an affinity > >for, two Choirs and Bands that they have strong feelings against, and can > >generally take or leave the rest. I must be an aberration -- I like pretty much all of them, in concept at least. I'm dreading the first time I have to *run* a Kyrio PC, but I think the idea behind that Choir is wonderful. Malakim... well, I couldn't see myself wanting to play one, and there's no way I could manage one in my campaign (given that it's shaping up to be a "mixed" group), but I think they're useful in certain situations. (Same for the Shedim -- not really my style.) I suppose that if I had to pick a few that I particularly liked, they'd be the Elohim, Balseraphs, and Djinn (who I think would be a fun challenge to roleplay). Honorable mention to Lilim, Mercurians, and Impudites. (And then there's the one I had to make up, to make one of the characters playable. :) > Does anyone else think that this is probably the same for Superiors? I would > probably only ever serve Jean or Yves (being a techie), although in Hell this > theory falls down because I really do like Kobal, Saminga, Haagenti and > Nybbas, with Vapula well upo there too. They are just so much FUN. And for > Superiors I hate, well Blandine & Dominic, and in Hell Beleth and Lilith. Probably true a lot of the time, anyway. I *love* Yves, and really like Eli and Gabriel. As a player, the "conventional political powers" of heaven (Michael and Laurence, especially) strike me as... uninteresting. Dominic's an exception -- I think one of his angels would be fun to roleplay, even if I find their boss (and possibly them) to be a tactless jerk. Most of the Demon Princes are fun (though I find Kobal to be a trifle overused, and Nybbas somewhat annoying). One of my players, meanwhile, is on a big-time "I can't *stand* Novalis" kick. I find it amusing. :) And don't put either of us in a room with Uriel, if he ever comes back. ;) > If it looks like I'm on a Lilim bash, you're probably right. I think they are > too easy to abuse, and all of the posts about "Lilim aren't evil, they're just > misunderstood" did nothing to change my opinion. Malakim I could be swayed on > (as some of the ones metioned on the list are pretty cool sounding). }:-) Lilim are easy to abuse if left unchecked by the GM. Every one of them has this dream of "freedom," and a whole lot of them have starry-eyed visions of how great it'll be, and how *easy* it'll be. They're supposed to, I think - -- it's their nature. Everything else comes easy to them, because they can get anything just by finding someone willing to trade for it. Freedom (which is not even remotely the same thing as Redemption) requires a different approach, and it's a lot of work -- it's the GM's job to ensure that the Lilim learns just how much work it really is. - --truss. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:10:59 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! On Jun 11, 11:45pm, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > > Two angels break into an apartment that belongs to a demon. In the apartment > > they find a body bag with a vessel in it. One angel asks to vacate his own > > vessel, steal the vessel in the bag, put his vessel in the bag and then steal > > the bag. Afterwards he plans to pay the demon's fiendish friends a visit > > wearing the demon's form! > Heh heh. Oh, if I were GM, I'd -DEFINITELY- allow this one. Bear > with me here.. > Angel steals Demonic vessel, puts his own in Demon's body bag. > Angels leave apartment and go visit Demon's cohorts. > Meanwhile, off-stage, the Demon in question runs afoul of a Djinn > and a pair of Malakim. Gets whupped. > Demon's soul, of course, immediately reverts to Vessel in body > bag... This is a sticky point. The only reason someone was able to 'steal' a vessel was with a Resonance or with the Song of Possession. Just because the _bag_ belongs to someone, doesn't give them any particular power over the contents. The bag's sole purpose is to keep a vessel fresh. When a Celestial's current vessel gets trashed, the Celestial is drawn to its remain vessel. NOW comes the tricky part. The Demon's soul can't go to the body in the bag, and that leaves two choices. a) Trauma b) Wherever Celestial souls go when their vessel is possessed I'm inclined to say 'b' is the proper answer. And where is this you may ask? Well a non-canon answer (which may become canon in the near future... Moriah is looking at it) is this: What happens to a Celestial's when his vessel is possessed? The Celestial's mind is tossed into the Marches. If they have another vessel they can use, they can get back to earth with that one. A Kyriotate who has no other vessel assumes his Celestial form (p. 102). Shedim are evicted and must find a new host quickly (p. 152). When the duration of Possession is over, the mind of the Celestial is drawn back to their vessel as long as they are still in the Marches. If they are elsewhere, the vessel vanishes. So the Demon would be drawn to his vessel, and get bounced to the Marches. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:44:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > > > You notice angel/demon things everywhere you go! And I mean *everywhere*! > > (I never *knew* there were so many celestial in-jokes surrounding me...) > Well, I have to admit, it can get pretty bad...but as long as you > don't try invoking your Resonance on someone, I think you're OK. My fiance,Fran, and I had a discussion about this yesterday after I forwarded ArchBeth's post to her. We thought you have had IN on your mind to much when you try to figure out which Choirs/Bands your friends are. What realy got scary is when we figured out one of our friends makes more sence as a Kyriotate of Jean then as a human. :-P I will post the stats for him when I get them finished. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:58:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Loose Thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 2) On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > > The Joker - Shedim of Kobal I would have thought a belseraph. He seems to beleave his own lies. And he did swing Harley over. > Two-Face - Habbalah of Kronos > Hmmm... this one was tricky. The self-delusional aspect of Habbalah > fits Two-Face's psychosis, but only just. As for Superior, it came down > to either Kronos or Malpheas, since everyone else seemed inappropriate - Why not both. Harv is seriously srewed up. If anyone he would serve two masters. > Now, who have I missed? The Ventiloquist... the Mad Hatter... > Tweedledum & Tweedledee... Mr Freeze... yep, all the stupid ones I don't > like. Someone else can bother with them. What about Harlequin, and Lock up? > So, any thoughts? Looks good. Shadowcat ******************************************************************************** There is no Saint with out a past ; and no Sinner with out a future ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:15:15 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Djinn >>>One reason that I think Asmodeus is the scariest of the Diabolicals is that he is a Djinn.<<< And don't forget Beleth! Yes, the Djinn are definitely a scary bunch....the Shedim are overtly psychotic, the Calabim are hyper-violent, but the Djinn......they're the ones that just follow you around, watching you.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:15:17 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Character Types >>>I don't know... I think the players deserve the type of fun they want - and if they want this or that character, that's okay: it's their game after all.<<< It's also the GM's game, and he has not only the right, but the responsibility, to turn down character concepts that won't fit well. For instance, I'm highly unlikely to allow a Bright Lilim, much less anything more oddball like an ethereal spirt. In my online game, I disallowed Outcasts and Renegades; I just didn't want to deal with them. Unusual characters can be fun, but a lot of times players automatically jump for something that's not part of the standard rules because they like to tweak the campaign and because they think it will give them special abilities the others don't have. There is plenty of variety in the "standard" character options; anyone who can't come up with an original, unusual character concept using them isn't trying. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:12:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Valar and Archangels Re: IN> Music, maestro? On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, at 14:31:10 +0500, James Rand quoted me: >> * Aule is closest to David > >No, Aule is more Eli. Remember the part of the Silmarillion where the >Tree is dying, and the Vala ask Feanor (Feanor RULEZ! Sorry, had to >say that...) Not a problem. >to break the Simarils so that the light trapped inside >can heal the tree? Aule is the only Vala who understands what Feanor >is going through in that moment... I must have missed that somehow. I'll go back and look... >Aule is the Vala of making >things, craft, and accomplishment. > Ah. Indeed. >Tulkas is David, if you ask me. Very Malakim attitude, likes to >trounce his enemies with nothing more than his bare hands. > That'll win. >> Austin G. "Other thoughts, anyone?" Loomis > >Mandos = Dominic Makes sense to me. >Orome = Michael > Likewise, ish. But see below. >And I think there is a remarkable similarity between Feanor and the >way Milton portrays Satan in Paradise Lost. Makes sense, given Tolkien's background. On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, at 21:39:36 CDT, tom timberlake wrote: >Austin G. Loomis wrote: [...] >> And would anyone else who's read the _Silmarillion_ (specifically the >> Valaquenta) care to join me in the game of guessing which of the Valar >> can be mapped to which Archangels? For starters: >> * Melkor/Morgoth is plainly Samael/Lucifer >> * Manwe Sulimo is either Michael or Janus (or a blend) >> * Aule is closest to David >> * Yavanna Kementari matches pretty well to Novalis >> * Este, the wife of Irmo Lorien, is Blandine displaced >> >> Austin G. "Other thoughts, anyone?" Loomis > >Manwe of the Heavens and Clouds comes closest to a much beefed-up Janus. That's sort of what I thought, but it wasn't precise enough for my own persnicking tastes. >Elbereth the Star-Kindler is Gabrielle gone supernova [pun intended]. Heh. >Orome the Hunter is probably the best match to Jordi. If there is one. >As the father/creator of the dwarves, Aule could be a match to either > David or Eli. Another Aule/Eli vote *and* support for my Aule/David contention. Ask four Talmudic scholars the same question and you get five answers. >Tulkas is either Michael [first pref.] or Laurence. Syncretism is an extremely inexact "science," have you noticed? >Namo, called Mandos, the doomsayer is obviously Yves' Amber-shadow. > That was my first thought, but I wasn't sure enough about it to include it. >enough already. tom, whose Word is Schnauzer: clamp down on a subject, >shake it like a caught rat, and don't turn loose until it's really and >truly dead. > Ah. Indeed. Austin George "Back to the other account, now it's working again" Loomis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: IN> Smif There has been some criticism of Smif's art in In Nomine, on the ground that it gave the book too much of a comic book feel instead of a more World of Darkness atmosphere. However, I recently discovered than many of the best pictures in Mage 2nd Ed are done by Smif. Is it, then, the colouring process which causes problems? What do people think? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:03:20 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> Music, maestro? > Namo, called Mandos, the doomsayer is obviously Yves' Amber-shadow. Actually, when I said Mandos was Dominic, I was wrong. He's not Yves, either. He's clearly Kronos. (Look at his prophecies. All of them are about fates, not destinies. Mandos never speaks up about something good that's going to happen, no, it's always Dooms.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #207 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.