From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jun 14 02:08:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12022 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:08:23 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15871 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:16:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:16:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199706132116.QAA15871@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #209 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, June 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 209 In this digest: Re: IN> Smif IN> Play up, Play up and Play the Game! IN> Smif IN> need help!! IN> Know Your Enemies :- A Rough Guide for Soldiers Of Hell IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> Body Bagging Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> Body Bagging IN> Tick in In Nomine Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> need help!! Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> Loose Thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 2) IN> Smif Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Body Bagging IN> X-Men (to complete the superhero celestial set) IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... IN> Night Music on the way... Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 07:56:58 UT From: "Hermes Trismegistus" Subject: Re: IN> Smif >>Why does In Nomine have to be World of Darkness? White Wolf seems to be generating quite enough WoD gaming supplies on its own, even without the supplemental SJG GURPS conversions. There's no reason that a GM can't run an In Nomine game in 'four colour' mode, is there? This is, after all, supposed to be the epic battle of all epic battles in western society -- the epitomes of good and evil confronting each other toe to hoof on a battleground that consists of the entire planet. Stop me when this sounds like a comic book.<< I couldn't agree with this more. The WoD has been thoroughly overdone by now, and we need another WoD style game like a third nipple. :) I have enjoyed Dan Smith's art since first picking up INWO, and I like the look it gives the IN book. I think that many ppl are playing the game alot darker than my group, but can you think of somebody else that could draw a better Novalis, haagenti or Vapula?? Just my 0.02 Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 11:55:00 GMT From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Play up, Play up and Play the Game! On the Nature of The Game "The Game isn't a matter of life and death. Its more important than that." Termagant, the Arbiter Now I know a lot of the damned seem to have the idea that 'The Game' is just a codeword that we sometimes use to mean loyalty and dedication to the cause. Its one way to look at things, certainly saves a lot of them from having to think too much about the implications (which is just as well in many cases) but each and every one of you who is reading this knows in your ichor that there is more to it than that. There are very few certainties in our existences; the ways of the divine and the infernal are often deliberately vague, frustratingly so at times. The Game defines us, we are those beings who play The Game. Through its rules we can build for ourselves Princes and Barons, lowerarchies and spheres of competence; where g** has refused to make rules and define things for us, we are now able to do these things for ourselves. You are part of The Game, and as well as being a pawn you are also a player. Play it well and you will progress, the things you want will be realised - play it badly and you'll get screwed over. But win or lose, the important thing is that you have to play by the rules. We can't afford to let standards slip, and its for everyone's bad. Whatever freedom we have here in hell is due purely to the existence of The Game. Remember that and never gripe about it. Now this isn't an easy thing; I've mentioned rules and all of you will know some of them, even if only the ones which define your nature and duties. Screw up on those and you're toast. There are other rules though, rules that are easy to forget or misplace, especially when the Prince of The Game takes a turn and decides to change a few when you aren't paying attention. In fact we can separate the rules of The Game into two categories. Rules of Piece and Rules of Play. I'm going to speak with reference to chess (you do all play chess I hope, if not I suggest you learn the rules as fast as you can), one of the more popular and virulent of the Game variants we release on mortals. A rule of Piece defines what a playing piece in the game may do, how it is allowed to move and what its capabilities are. All celestials are pieces so that means /you/. Questioning, neglecting or disobeying a Rule of Piece is usually regarded by arbiters as cheating. The Lord of the Game dislikes blatent cheating and such pieces will be removed from the playing area. In chess, the rules of Piece define that a bishop may move any distance along its diagonal and stop at any point before reaching an obstructing piece. Rules define the other pieces also. A rule of Play defines how Pieces may legally interact with each other. Each superior can define some of these for you (and will do); if the rules of piece define what you are, then the rules of play define how you can actually get things done. Taking the time to learn the rules properly; who you ask for X, what the procedures are for acquiring Y, which forms you need to fill out in triplicate for Z, et al will pay off enormously in the long run. The penalties for infringing a rule of play are largely settled in-game, in that you will find that better players will gain advantage over you. Servants of The Game comprise some of the most competent gamers hell has to offer, unnaturally. Bureacracy is a highly significant part of The Game. In its mortal form, it is one of the ways in which mortals can also take part. The Game is not restrictive; everyone must play. Many servants of The Game, contrary to popular opinion, are not solely concerned with arbitration of demonic players; it is due to our concerted efforts that the spread of bureacracy has been so successful. Understand that The Game is also a metagame, you know this already of course, but it includes every manner of game which has stringent rules. Although individual pieces may have objectives in advancing themselves, the object of The Game is simply to play by The Rules. Finessing the rules of Play is not only acceptable but laudable, especially if accomplished with flair and subtlety - disobeying the rules of Play or ignoring them is a certain way to ensure that your own play will not progress and may be mired down for a considerable time. Naturally, these rules are not written down in any simple and widely agreed form. Learning the rules of play is part of The Game. I've been asked also about the 'other side' - as in, do they also play The Game? Instinctively, they avoid it and seek to avoid its gentle and generous cohesion. The corridors of bureacratic institutions are not places angels often dare to tread, and for good reasons. The Game is contagious, it can be addictive - it is widely rumoured that more of 'them' have fallen due to becoming drawn into the Game than for any other reason. Thusly, if you have an opportunity to entwine your opponents with mortal paperwork, red tape, rules and more regulations and yet more rules, then do so. My superior takes a deep interest in acquiring new pieces, and especially such as are unfamiliar with these mortal things may quickly be drawn into a true competitive spirit. Remember, it matters not whether you win or lose, but how you play The Game. T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:32:44 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Smif Message text written by Gregory Littmann > There has been some criticism of Smif's art in In Nomine, on the ground that it gave the book too much of a comic book feel instead of a more World of Darkness atmosphere. < To me the more four colour style of In Nomine is significantly better than the world of darkness house style. After all the characters are playing some of the most over the top creatures in creation. Second of course is that the game is set up so that you can run a humerous or mythic version[for which the four colour Warrior Nun Arealia / Avengaline look is perfectly appropriate] instead of the dark style. In the real world of course we see every thing in the cartoons of the daily papers. Does that make Dogbert a Djinn of Malphas? Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:32:47 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> need help!! Message text written by in_nomine-digest >On Jun 11, 4:04pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > Subject: IN> need help!! > > This is a tough one for me, so I thought some of you might be able to help. > In my game, my players have met a lilim who is trying to become bright. > The problem is that she owes 4 more geasa. Here's the problem, I have > come up with good ones for two, but the other two are gonna be a bitch. > Both for me and my players. The ones I would like input on are one for > Lilith herself, and the Big D, Lucifer. These need to be tricky, I have a > very clever seraph of dominic playing in the group. There's no prizes for > this but the satisfaction of knowing people will be enjoying your ideas. > > think about these, please.< How about this. Lucifer calls in the debt and asks her to retrive the Sangreal from its hiding place under Glastonbury Tor. The main opposition to this is likely to come from minions of Asmodeus [who are likely to have a better idea why the former Archangel of Light and commander of the heavenly host, wants one of the most powerful healing artifacts in creation...] and Saminga [who just wants it destroyed] [See the Warhound and the Worlds Pain for expainsion of reasons and opposition] Lilith wants to be formally given the freedom of the city by a major conurbation. [Not a problem to give to players lacking in sutblety, but then they shouldn't play Lilim anyway.] Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com "No one walks so deep in the Shadow that they cannot return to the light." Robert Jordan:- Wheel of Time ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:32:51 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Know Your Enemies :- A Rough Guide for Soldiers Of Hell As delivered by a surviving Soldier of Hell Remeber your worst enemy is the demon you wotk for. If you fail he'll kill you, and if you get to powerfull he'll try to kill you. Be ready to do unto him first. Your best advantage is the angels and demons can't hear you kill people like they can when they do it. Choirs ====== Seraphim: Know everything, can't lie. No fun. Cherubim: Heavens Bodyguards take them out before attacking whateverit is that they are guarding. Ofanim: Move to fast to catch, so use landmines. Elohim: Vulcans Malakim: Run Like Hell. These are the old testement avenging angels. Though they have given up on burning chariots in exchange for Helicopter Gunships and Motorbikes. Kyriotates: Anyone or any animal could be one of these. I know its superflous but Trust No one.. Mercurians: The people Angels. Gun them down when they leave their favourite night club. Servitors of... =============== Blandine: Not our problem. David: Half the worlds skinheads work for us half for him. The dificulty is working out which . Don't trust people who don't like guns. Dominic: Guns down angels for us. All you have to do is arrange for them to do colateral causlties. Eli: A Drunken Sot. His angels are a pain, They allways have a trick up their sleaves. Like killing a squad of troops with a packet of playing cards. Anything is a weapon for these guys. Gabriel: Watch out for guys with Green flaming Hands. [Use an Endothermic Fire extinguisher,not CO2, on them.] Janus: Locksmiths, cracksmen, demo experts, the only advantage in facing angels of the wind is they have to move on fast so if you can ride them out they will leave. Jean: Heaven's Q branch. If you find some one asleep with their fingers in a power socket, plant exposives on a timer and sneak off.. Jordi: Ecoterrorists. beware of squirrels and mice that act funny. They are spying on you. Laurence: Walking talking upright prats. Dirty tricks serve realy well here. Litheroy:They can't even hide what they are. Easy to find and not to difficult to kill. Marc:Their best weakness is their love of money. Trash their smart cars and their bank accounts and they go into shock. Michael:Killing Machines. They fight as dirty as we do. but they don't give up. Novalis: Remember to burn off all the plants round any of your bases. then her angels can't hide in the flowers. Yves: Like Seraphs only worse, don't go near libraries when angels of destiny ar arround. They wanted Hitler to be a House Painter, not the worlds greatest man. Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com "We will rule through fear, fear of the Imperial Navy and fear of this Battle Station" Moff Tarkin [Soldier of Vapula] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:06:13 +0100 From: Niall Teasdale Subject: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or whatever. What was his word *before* he fell? Niall. - -- Niall Teasdale - System Administrator - Netfusion Ltd - nt@netfusion.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:48:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Smif Gregory Littmann wrote: "There has been some criticism of Smif's art in In Nomine, on the ground that it gave the book too much of a comic book feel instead of a more World of Darkness atmosphere.... What do people think?" Since I dislike a "World of Darkness" atmosphere, this was not a problem for me. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:29:27 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > But what if the someone else in question isn't home? What if the hypothetical > demon is off somewhere else wearing some other form entirely, but left this > form laying around empty? The original question was if the body could be > stolen under these circumstances. You can 'steal' the body temporarily with Song of Possession or using an appropriate Resonance. If the body doesn't belong to you, you don't have any connection to enter it... it's just a body. The difficultly I had with the scenario that was outlined was when the STEALER's body was in the bag and the original owner got fragged. Let me outline this very clearly: Celestial B has two vessels, "Bob" and "Betty". Betty is in the bag. Bob goes off. Celestial A has one vessel, "Adam". He finds the bag and uses Song of Possession to inhabit Betty. He then places Adam into the bag. The clock starts ticking on the Song. Bob gets fragged. Celestial B's soul is drawn back to his remaining vessel, Betty, but is rebuffed and winds up in the Marches. Celestial A has all sorts of wacky adventures, but finally relinquishes Betty and returns to his own body, Adam. In the other poster's example, Celestial B would find himself in Celestial A's body, Adam. This is what I was objecting to. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:36:11 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Body Bagging > The strange thing is that while I'm not in the least bit shy about making a > non canon, heretical ruling I find that I do need to know what the canon > answers *are*. There's demonic statement if I ever heard one. "In order to break the rules, I have to know what they are first!" ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:57:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? > Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or > whatever. > What was his word *before* he fell? Light. > Niall. Oops da "Talkative" Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? "Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or whatever. What was his word *before* he fell?" Non-canon? Light. And now he's the Prince of Darkness. yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:37:19 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Body Bagging "Is it just me or is the need for "canon" answers a little too much like all those CCGs where the rules and being able to use or abuse them becomes more important than the game?" IMO, it's perfectly legitimate to want to explore the 'game' aspect of IN as well as the 'roleplaying' aspect. Canon answers provide one interpretation of the rules, with the extra 'oomph' of it being the *designers'* interpretation. "Personally I prefer a v. fast and loose game, setting and style, where the story is paramount, there's no such thing as precedent unless I choose to allow it, and hang what the book says, what Moriah says, what anyone says if it gets in my way ;p Anything else smacks of an obsessiveness that I have other outlets for." *sigh* I'd like to call an official moratorium on the phrases "Whatever makes for the best story" and "The object of the game is to have fun." Not that they're not useful concepts, but they're so often used to squelch discussions that the participants are enjoying...it's shorthand for "Anyone who's interested in rules or setting discussion is a roll-playing munchkin out to kill RPGs." Plus, these lists, those statements are pretty redundant -- is there anyone here who thinks that the rules should *not* bend to the story? "along with my wallet being devastated - Weatherlight for MtG came out day before yesterday, I am poor again :(" Trust me. I know all about it. We had to hustle up our set at the pre-release tourney, offering up insane OOPs for lackluster rares. The things you do for journalism. :) yours, Jason Schneiderman (associate editor for InQuest Magazine) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:32:13 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Tick in In Nomine > >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:32:42 -0400 >From: Donnellys >Subject: Re: IN> Supes > >Um, uh, hi, I've seen the previous postings on DC superheroes (tm, I >still dont believed they copyrighted that word, yet I digress), kinda >hard to miss actually. However, I feel, in this, a critical cosm has >been slighted. So I will hazard this realm to bring forth the >incarnations in In Nomine: Tick (what were you expecting, Marvel? Acuse >me of some taste why don't you.) > >Tick - Cherubim of Well, I don't see the Tick as a Cherub. Sure, he's single-minded a lot of the time, but his spontinaety and impulsiveness make me think he fits better as an Ofanite. An Ofanite of Fire, to be precise. Explains his constant pursuit of the Forces of Evil...and goes a little way to explaining his dubious sanity. >Arthur - Elohim of Judging from the cartoon show (I only managed to read the first seven issues of the Comic book) I think Arthur acts upon his fear too much to remain Elohim for long...He's probably not Mercurian, Malakite, Kyriotate or Ofanite, either...which leaves Seraphim, or Cherubim. A case could be made that Arthur is a Cherub of Judgement, assinged not to go after the Tick when he falters, but instead to keep the Tick from getting himself into too much trouble. [Mmmmm...Text...] > >The UberClown - Definately Calabite, Probably of War. >El Seed Deranged Outcast Kyriotate of Novalis? Dunno. >Idea Men Not particularly bright Soldiers of Hell in service to Valefor. >Brainchild Offhand, I'd say Balseraph of Vapula, if only for the Band Attunement. >Pinapple faced dictator of Pinapplesia No Idea about this one, just mentioning I think his name was "Pinapple Pokopo." = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Monty, Lilim Captain of Media, the Demon of Game Shows. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:06:29 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? > What was his word *before* he fell? Power? Rulership? (Or Light?) I'm inclined to think it was something really powerful and important, or else he would never have had the hubris to rebel against God. (BTW, that bit in the rulebook about Michael kicking his ass is misinformation bordering on slander. The only reason Michael won that fight is that God made him invulnerable for the duration of the battle. Of course he's going to win if he can hurt Lucifer and Lucifer can't hurt him!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:19:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> need help!! On Jun 11, 4:04pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > This is a tough one for me, so I thought some of you might be able to help. > In my game, my players have met a lilim who is trying to become bright. > The problem is that she owes 4 more geasa. Here's the problem, I have > come up with good ones for two, but the other two are gonna be a bitch. > Both for me and my players. The ones I would like input on are one for > Lilith herself, and the Big D, Lucifer. These need to be tricky, I have a > very clever seraph of dominic playing in the group. There's no prizes for > this but the satisfaction of knowing people will be enjoying your ideas. Here's a suggestion for the Lucifer's Geas. Ideally, his should be the last, and you should give the players the impression that his will be the most difficult. Instead, Lucifer give the Lilim a seemingly trivial task: make certain that a particular boy fails the second grade. The catch: he insists the Lilim have help from her new-found angelic friends. This should immediately make the angels paranoid. Why is Lucifer using such a big Geas on such a simple task? What signifigance does the child have on the greater scheme of things? What evil scheme is going on in the background? The task of making the child fail should be degrading and humiliating. The child is a particularly clever boy, and has been doing well in his work so far. You have to be *really* awful to actually flunk the second grade. The Lilim will have to seriously warp the boy to get him to fail, and probably corrupt many others in the process - including his teacher, school administrators and possibly even his parents. Satan will make it clear that altering the records isn't good enough. The boy *himself* must fail, in a way that can't be corrected by paperwork. An angel of Destiny should be able to see that this event will destroy the boy's future. His failure in the second grade will cascade a series of event that drive him further and further down until - as an adult - he will be trapped in a meaningless, dreary life with no hope of advancement. The truth of the situation is far more insidious. The boy has no greater signifigance. Satan simply wants the Lilim to commit one final, irredeemable act of petty evil. Ideally, he wants her angelic friends to be involved as a well. He wants them faced with the moral dilemma: is the Lilim's redemption worth the destruction of the little boy. If all goes well, not only with the Lilim fail, her angelic friends will be partially corrupted as well, ripe for the fall. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:35:03 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > > The Celestial's mind is tossed into the Marches. If > S'just like a human, then. No offense, but that strikes me > immediately as too boring a solution...Celestials should react > differently. I'd certainly give them the opportunity, if they have the > Essence, to try jumping straight to Celestial form and staying right > there, when it happens...or to manifest in another Vessel, if they have > more than one. (If only for the amusement of having someone get taken > over, and then appear next to themselves and pop them in the nose...) Mind you, this is still undergoing scrutiny, but if a Celestial has some other way to manifest on the Corporeal Plane, this is not precluded! Another Vessel, a Celestial form, etc. are all fine. > And whether they go Celestial or to the Marches, I think a > Celestial should be able to DISSOLVE the Vessel, even with someone else in > it, though the possessor should similarly be able to resist with their own > Will. (You might kick their mind out, but it's still -their- Vessel. I'd > base their chance of doing it more on the Vessel Level than just Will, > though...Vessel + Corporeal Forces, maybe.) The hell of having someone possess your vessel is that they are maintaining the darn thing. Look in the original story with the example of Song of Possession. He pretty much just jumps in. No attempts to dissolve a vessel or otherwise cause problems. Presumably Adam didn't have any way back to the Corporeal and was just out of luck. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:28:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Smif My Main problem with Smif, is that I have seen it WAY TOO MUCH! I buy both Gurps and IN books, and it seems at times like he has become the Bull Pen artist. I would like to see either Robin Wood, or Ruth Thompson do some stuff for In-Nomine. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 12:09 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! >But what if the someone else in question isn't home? What if the hypothetical >demon is off somewhere else wearing some other form entirely, but left this >form laying around empty? The original question was if the body could be >stolen under these circumstances. I view vessels as being part of the owner, not something you can give to someone else (like an artifact). Thus, you can't just walk off with someone else's vessel by taking physical possession of it. If someone did walk off with a vessel *in* a body bag, I'd probably allow the owner the same sort of chance to track it as they'd get for a corporeal artifcat. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:23:24 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Niall Teasdale wrote: > Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or > whatever. > What was his word *before* he fell? Someone has just said, a few messages ago: He was Samael, former Archangel of Light. Andre ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:03:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Niall Teasdale wrote: > Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or > whatever. What was his word *before* he fell? "How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, Son of the Morning! How art cast down to the ground, thou who didst weaken the nations!" -- somewhere in Isaiah "Lucifer" is a Latinized translation of a Hebrew phrase meaning "shining one" and itself means "light-bearer." His word must have been Light or something closely similar. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:15:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Loose Thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 2) On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > Harley Quinn and Lock-Up are both from the Animated Series, which I > don't watch (I don't think it's playing in this country right now). > However, Lock-Up has appeared in DC continuity now, and I'd forgotten > about him... I haven't READ a Mainline Batman comic in forever,(elseworlds, and Long Halloween withstanding), but my cat Shelley realy likes the cartoon, so she and I wantch it. That reminds me...What are the stats for Clock King. He is an older villian that has made a slight comeback do to the show. Shadowcat %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "I have fought reality for 30 years and I am glad to say that I have won." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:11:09 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Smif >>>Seriously, if you don't like Smif, then who *would* you get? Remember! only name artist's who appear regularly in rpg's. Don't go picking some fantastically great mainstream artist that no gaming company can possibly afford!<<< Oh darn, I was looking forward to NIGHT MUSIC illustrated by Frank Frazetta and THE MARCHES illustrated by David Whelan. - -David ("$100 for an In Nomine supplement? Sure, why not!") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:02:03 -0700 From: "Nate Edel" Subject: Re: IN> Smif Ditto. I'm no big fan on WWG, and In Nomine had done a good job of differentiating itself from "just another V:tM Ripoff..." which would have been harder if it looked just like another V:tM ripoff. I *like* Smith's work; OTOH, I'm getting a little tired of seeing it everywhere in SJG products... the guy's good, but they really need to develop a broader stable of artists... :Since I dislike a "World of Darkness" atmosphere, this was not a :problem for me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:44:11 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Body Bagging > I just seemed to get the impression that some of the bandaid-patches > being applied to the games that SJG publishes - numerous errata, etc - > could be construed as indicating they believe their audience/market to > be very heavily rules-lawyer oriented. This is merely a comparison to > other companies. IN, I should explain, is the first SJG game that I > have run/played in any real fashion, but I note copious errata on all > sorts of games on the Web site... > > Perhaps I should end this by saying that one might also be able to > construe this as meaning that (a) SJG cares about their games more > than any other publisher, (b) SJG consider their games to be more > living or evolving documents and every edition is a prelude to a more > fine-tuned and tighter next edition into which the errata et alii are > being incorporated. Yeah, they aren't perfect over there and the amount of errate and after-edition rulings proves that. Their willingness to trumpet the corrections is a testament to their dedication to a quality product. It also means that gamers aren't forced to buy a new edition to get the fixes! =) > What I was really trying to do was get around to complementing some of > the excellent contributors; Archangel Beth, yourself, GreyDragon, the > Quixotic Ninja, etc (to name those I remember on the spot) and all the > little relievers and gremlins who post such ideas to the > list. Several of these are being incorporated into my campaign even as > we speak / read / post, and so thanks to the collective mind. A lot of good ideas whizz by here. Sometimes I really regret not having time to read every post. (I tend to skim for the rules questions and whatever else catches my eye.) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:25:34 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> X-Men (to complete the superhero celestial set) People are probably going to disagree with a lot of these. I'm not entirely sure of them myself. Still, for the dubious enjoyment of some, and the exorcism of myself: Storm : Seraph of Jordi (Janus and Jean might also be appropriate, but Jordi seemed to fit her natural-world image) Cyclops : Malakite of Laurence Phoenix : Seraph of Gabriel Wolverine : Malakite of Gabriel (Jordi might also fit, but the temper suggested Gabriel) Colossus : Cherub of David Shadowcat : Elohite of Jean Nightcrawler : Ofanite of Laurence Rogue : Bright Lilim of Gabriel Gambit : Ofanite of Janus Magneto : Seraph of Michael / Balseraph of Baal (depending on if he's trying to save the world from itself, and how violently) Beast : Elohite of Yves Forge : Kyriotate of Jean (all those surveillance thingies) Iceman : Mercurian of Novalis (this would be the young, cheerful Iceman) Bishop : Malakite of Dominic Angel : Seraph of Eli (it was the wings) Dazzler : Mercurian of Marc (she is a businesswoman, after all) Psylocke : Elohite of Michael Longshot : Mercurian of Janus Professor X : Kyriotate of Yves (all those Mutants must achieve their Destiny) Cannonball : Ofanite of Jean (or Gabriel, but it felt more like Jean: the unsubtlety of it) Jubilee : Ofanite of Novalis Sentinels : Clearly the work of Vapula Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:29:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... >> Well... okay, let's look at this. Now, if you're maintaining a Role, >> you have to tell lies occasionally - even if only to the extent that you >> say "My name is Bob Simth", rather than "My name is Arglebeth, Seraph of >> Yves". Now, that kind of lie doesn't net you dissonance, I assume, >> unless you worked for Litheroy (in which case you couldn'y have a Role, >> so the point is moot). > > This is not actually a lie. A person may have many names >and use the one that is most convenient. In game terms, if you >have spent points on a Role, then you are just as much 'Bob >Simth' as you are Arglebeth. I had an instant flash of someone engaging a Seraph deep in his Role in conversation at a party... "So, what does your father do?" "Um... well, I don't really *have* a father as such, but He Who Created Me spends his time fulfilling his Word as Archangel of War." "Oh, *that's* nice... 'scuse me, I've got to go mingle with someone else I just spotted. Bye!" Celestials are *supposed* to keep secret the true nature of the Symphony (well, angels, at least... mostly). Sometimes they'll be confronted with situations in which they *have* to tell a deliberate untruth to defend that secret, and I'm fond enough of the pinched expressions my players get while covering that up that I won't punish them for fulfilling this part of their duty. My only Seraph player to date had a pretty solid grip on this, and he was good at redirecting or just dodging questions he didn't want to answer. I let him fudge things a bit, as long as he didn't tell any flat-out lies... if someone chose to interpret "nature calls" as he needed to go make water, rather than go swat a demon, well, that was *their* business. > Of course, any GM is free to adjudicate these things for >their campaign. It's more fun to watch the Seraphs squirm if you >treat them more strictly. Most Seraph-players seem to enjoy >walking that fine line between creative truth-telling and >outright lies. This sums it up pretty nicely, yep, but I'm willing to make small compromises if he at least *tries* to keep within the spirit of the truth. I'll forgive "I've got a prior engagement" as an excuse to disappear, but I won't let "I left my wallet at my apartment... I have to go get it" slide. As long as they're *vague*, they're fine by me. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:46:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN> Night Music on the way... Actually, this is more of just an "open letter" to Derek, and Steve, and John, and everyone else involved with IN production. I saw on the Daily Illuminator where Night Music has finally gone to the printer. I'll be the first to admit that I'm horribly impatient, and eager for New Stuff for IN to come out, especially the stuff about Soldiers and the Undead. That said, though, I want to commend you folks for holding off and taking a little extra time to get the thing *right*. For instance, I've been a big _Traveller_ fan from waaaaaay back when... but when Imperium Games rushed their latest edition of the game out, I was horribly disappointed. The product was buggier than a Florida summer night, and that's saying something. I hope that what I'm about to say doesn't actually *need* to be said, but, just in case... Guys, we're a *lot* more concerned about getting it right the first time than we are with making deadlines. OK, it's true, this is a business you're in, and you need to have *some* respect for the dreaded deadline... but don't ever sacrifice a good product just so it can get out the door in a hurry. I'll buy it, no matter when it comes out, and I'd *much* rather it be done right weeks or months later than originally planned than done in a half-assed way on schedule. Personally, I've been *very* pleased with what I've seen so far here, and I want you to know you have my support, as well as that of a whole buncha other folks out there. OK, pep-talk over. Back to the Kyriotate/Shedim questions... . Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 12:24 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? >Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or >whatever. >What was his word *before* he fell? Probably "Light".... - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #209 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.