From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jun 14 17:13:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11083 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:13:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA06447 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 16:41:08 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 16:41:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199706142141.QAA06447@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #210 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, June 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 210 In this digest: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? IN> Character Types IN> Canon Re: IN> Body Bagging Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> need help!! Re: IN> Mercurians Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain Re: IN> Character Types RE: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? IN> Canon (was Body Bagging) IN> Playing musical vessels. Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Night Music on the way... IN> Shedim Plot Seed Re: IN> Tick in In Nomine Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Smif IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #209 Re: IN> Loose Thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 2) Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! IN> Seraphs and roles Re: IN> Shedim Plot Seed IN> A Couple of Questions IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Re: IN> Raphael Re: IN> ...Running a Mixed Troupe. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:52:42 -0700 From: Roger Carbol Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Donald G Bixler wrote: > > > Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or > > whatever. > > What was his word *before* he fell? > > Light. > > > Niall. > > Oops da "Talkative" Ogre cf Prometheus. Roger Carbol .. rog@col.ca .. http://www.col.ca/rog/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:11:15 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Character Types >>> Of course he has! But he doesn't need to forbid, say, Kyrios, just because he assumed they're too much of a trouble... If there are no surprises for the GM, what's the fun??<<< He doesn't need to forbid Kyriotates, but he can if he wants to. Perhaps he has a particular story in mind that a Kyriotate would ruin. For instance, there are games where it's possible for PCs to have psychic powers, but it's suggested the GM disallow them if he's running a murder mystery, since mindreading and postcognition and the like would replace detective work. When I said I disallow Outcasts, Renegades and Bright Lilim in my campaign, that doesn't mean I think they are inappropriate characters, just that *I* don't want them. (And if someone had a really good character, and was really, really persuasive, I could still probably be talked into it.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:11:13 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Canon >>>Is it just me or is the need for "canon" answers a little too much like all those CCGs where the rules and being able to use or abuse them becomes more important than the game? Personally I prefer a v. fast and loose game, setting and style, where the story is paramount, there's no such thing as precedent unless I choose to allow it, and hang what the book says, what Moriah says, what anyone says if it gets in my way ;p<<< Official canon should never be interpreted as laws that the GM MUST follow. What canon does is provide some consistency between campaigns; if everyone is more or less following the same canon, there usually won't be radical differences between different campaigns, which allows for easier translation of characters between campaigns, as well as preventing future In Nomine releases from producing something that will, if followed, totally wreck the way a GM has been running his campaign. As in every game, the GM is absolutely free to ignore any rules he wants, he should just let his players know how his "house" rules differ from canon. Using your MtG analogy, any group of players can sit down and make up whatever rules they want, but providing canon makes sure everyone is following the same rules at a tournament, and knows what to expect. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:28:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Body Bagging At 9:44 AM -0400 6/13/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> What I was really trying to do was get around to complementing some of >> the excellent contributors; Archangel Beth, yourself, GreyDragon, the >> Quixotic Ninja, etc (to name those I remember on the spot) and all the >> little relievers and gremlins who post such ideas to the >> list. Several of these are being incorporated into my campaign even as >> we speak / read / post, and so thanks to the collective mind. > A lot of good ideas whizz by here. Sometimes I really regret >not having time to read every post. (I tend to skim for the rules >questions and whatever else catches my eye.) Whereas I wish I were some kind of mental Ofanite, so I could get *all* of them. Hm. And multitask utterly, so I could get them into HTML format and slapped onto the web-page. (Which got updated yesterday, BTW. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles .) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:11:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Smif At 2:11 AM -0400 6/13/97, Calabim@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 97-06-12 19:18:10 EDT, you write: [...] >If I were going to take a shot at criticizing I would have to say I have a >problem with pages 11, 19, 47, 51, 52, 54, 74, If you go look at the art gallery at the SJG In Nomine pages, you can find the art from p. 74 -- it seems to be a "first draft" of a Kronos sketch. (But you're definitely right about "bubblehead"; what *is* that, anyway? A manifestation of a Shedite?) >and 79. In all cases they >annoy because I have no idea what is being communicated, or how they connect >to In Nomine. [...] And I like Smif's work for In Nomie too. But I think I *really* like it for the coloring job -- there's a lot of good work in subtle shading there! And I mean a *LOT*! At 7:56 AM +0000 6/13/97, Hermes Trismegistus wrote: >and we need another WoD style game like a third nipple. :) Discord: Vestigium? O;> At 9:28 AM -0500 6/13/97, Shadowcat wrote: >My Main problem with Smif, is that I have seen it WAY TOO MUCH! I buy both >Gurps and IN books, and it seems at times like he has become the Bull Pen >artist. I would like to see either Robin Wood, or Ruth Thompson do some >stuff for In-Nomine. But only the *best* of Ruth Thompson (some of her stuff got awfully skitchy-sketch when she was the house artist, frankly). Robin Wood? Oooooohhhh, yeah, definitely. Probably not feasable, but you betcha she'd be cool. Hm. I'd start bidding in the "picture of self as book character" auctions if she were doing it! At 1:11 PM -0400 6/13/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Seriously, if you don't like Smif, then who *would* you get? Remember! >only name artist's who appear regularly in rpg's. Don't go picking some >fantastically great mainstream artist that no gaming company can possibly >afford!<<< > >Oh darn, I was looking forward to NIGHT MUSIC illustrated by Frank Frazetta >and THE MARCHES illustrated by David Whelan. > >-David ("$100 for an In Nomine supplement? Sure, why not!") Michael Whelan. Yeah. Definitely. And, oh... The one who did the covers for all of Mercades Lackey's stuff for a while -- the first 3 Herald trilogies, etc. Sure. And maybe Kelly Freas. And, a bit more seriously, Kaja Foglio -- her own, personal style, especially when seen in some of her Magic cards, would probably fit great. Phil's style would be best reserved for sexy demon chicks without much in the way of clothes -- Lilim and Impudites. ;-) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:05:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> need help!! At 9:29 AM -0400 6/12/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Jun 11, 4:04pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: >> Subject: IN> need help!! [...] >Have the Lilim have sex with someone at a party. It turns out > later that the person is a politician and someone is > blackmailing him into making very bad (evil) decisions > (Lilim are, of course, quite photogenic!) Hey, "Body by Andre" will do that for ya! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:44:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians At 10:20 AM +0930 6/12/97, ZZ No Mail - dpo (leave) wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 3:06 PM +0930 6/11/97, Damian O'Dea wrote: >> >> >True combat wombat >> >> Wouldn't that be reserved for a Servitor of Jordi? > >Erm, um, Song of Possession with a particular bent for strange >combat vessels? Would you believe... Possibly.... >>--Kamakazi, Lilim of Dark Humor > >Would't that be "kamikaze"? Or is "divine wind" one that >belongs to Janus? Haagenti? Okay, Lilim of Dark Humor can't spell.... (Her real name is "Kanah," I believe... But everyone calls her K.K. She's on my in-nomine characters listings... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles -- go to the rogue's gallery, and thence to the demons...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:41:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain At 11:25 PM -0600 6/11/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> You notice angel/demon things everywhere you go! And I mean *everywhere*! >> (I never *knew* there were so many celestial in-jokes surrounding me...) > Well, I have to admit, it can get pretty bad...but as long as you >don't try invoking your Resonance on someone, I think you're OK. You know, I had this really vivid dream where, at the end of it, I was in the persona of a Lil (of course), and in that period of time where one is just waking up but it's too much trouble to move, the *conviction* that I was still one was in the back of my head. Rather ... interesting. (Not quite scary; when fully awake, I'm quite aware of what I am, thankyouverymuch, but it was certainly an *interesting* sensation, to be utterly sure of oneself as Not Really Human.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:20:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Character Types At 12:15 PM -0400 6/12/97, David Edelstein wrote: [...] >Unusual characters can be fun, but a lot of times players automatically >jump for something that's not part of the standard rules because they like >to tweak the campaign and because they think it will give them special >abilities the others don't have. Special abilities? Who needs special abilities? Special *PROBLEMS*, now... (Who, me, take Amnesia as a disad twice in two different games? Would I do a thing like that? ) >There is plenty of variety in the "standard" character options; >anyone who can't come up with an original, unusual character >concept using them isn't trying. So the weirdies are cheap shots... They're still fun. That said, I, too, believe that the GM should only allow characters that s/he's comfortable GMing for. And only allow players s/he's comfortable GMing for! But this is drifting from In Nomine to general gaming theory... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:30:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Choirs and Bands At 7:35 AM +0000 6/12/97, Hermes Trismegistus wrote: >If it looks like I'm on a Lilim bash, you're probably right. I think they >are too easy to abuse, and all of the posts about "Lilim aren't evil, >they're just misunderstood" did nothing to change my opinion. Lilim are *perfectly* evil, selfish little hell-b!tches. It's just fun to play ones who aren't. Lemme see... Everyone knows I adore Lilim & hate Shedim (but possibly in the "demon one loves to hate" catagory?); also think Habbalah and Calabim are probably the next most fun Bands, can take or leave Djinn and Impudites, and am totally uninterested in Balseraphs. Of Choirs, I empathize most with Kyriotates, which ironically makes me disinclined to play one! (Been there, done that...) Elohim and Seraphim are interesting, with Kyrios on the next rung, and Mercurians and Ofanim below that (it would depend on the Archangel). I doubt I'd play a Malakite. I'd do a Reliever before that. Sadly, human Soldiers just aren't interesting enough to me -- I can do *human* whenever I want, y'know? (This is the Kyrio mindset talking again...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:37:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) At 8:03 AM +1000 6/13/97, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> On Jun 12, 7:22am, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >> > Subject: Re: IN> Loose thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 1) >> > John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> > > >> > > > Batman - Seraph of Dominic. >> > > >> > > No way! Batman lies ALL the time about what he's up to. >> > > >> > Hmmm... actually, _Bruce_Wayne_ lies about what he's up to, but Batman >> > rarely does... if you make that distinction it makes sense, but you do >> > make a good objection. >> >> Heh. If I were 'Bruce's' GM I would look askance at >> anyone trying to weasel out of their essential nature in such >> a way. ;) >> > Well... okay, let's look at this. Now, if you're maintaining a Role, >you have to tell lies occasionally - even if only to the extent that you >say "My name is Bob Simth", rather than "My name is Arglebeth, Seraph of >Yves". Nah, you weasle it: "Call me Bob Simth," or otherwise wriggle. This is one of the reasons that Seraphim hate dealing with mortals; it's so *easy* to get trapped in "What's your name" sorts of questions... If you can get a name that's close to your real one, you have it better. "Arnie Lebeth, yeah, that's my name..." (Which is why the Seraph Terian in the solo-IN game is going by "Terri-Ann" to most people, or even "Terri." It's a nickname, and surely a little pronunciation stretch isn't a problem... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:54:12 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Dear Light Seekers (and List) At 12:24 PM 13/6/97 EDT, you wrote: >>Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or >>whatever. >>What was his word *before* he fell? > >Probably "Light".... IMHO it was Light and when he fell he became the Prince of Darkness. Yours, Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:03:39 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Canon (was Body Bagging) At 09:36 AM 13/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >> The strange thing is that while I'm not in the least bit shy about making a >> non canon, heretical ruling I find that I do need to know what the canon >> answers *are*. > > There's demonic statement if I ever heard one. "In order >to break the rules, I have to know what they are first!" ;) Dear John (and List) you can't have heresy with out orthodoxy . Yours Peter. Soldier for the Angel of Heresy. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: IN> Playing musical vessels. In a message dated 97-06-13 20:31:25 EDT, you write: << In the other poster's example, Celestial B would find himself in Celestial A's body, Adam. This is what I was objecting to. >> Ahhhh...much clearer now, thanks. Does raise a question though. In my game, (and I think in others') a will roll tends to represent an actual effort to resist. If I try to use a song on you and for some reason you don't want to resist, then you don't get a roll. If I follow these rulings then you can't steal a vessel unless you had the song of possession. But if you can sing the song of possession at what point would a resistance roll be made? I wouldn't think an empty vessel would put up a fight, and so it doesn't seem likely to get a role. But would it get a roll when the owner returns? >> The strange thing is that while I'm not in the least bit shy about making a >> non canon, heretical ruling I find that I do need to know what the canon >> answers *are*. > There's demonic statement if I ever heard one. "In order >to break the rules, I have to know what they are first!" ;) 'course it's a demonic statement...I'm a referee! You thought maybe I'd think like an angel? };;;-)> - -Calabim@aol.com (whose really more of a seraph at heart... };;;-)> yep. sure am. God's honest truth...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 16:35 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Smif > I would like to see either Robin Wood, or Ruth Thompson do some >stuff for In-Nomine. Ruth Thompson would probably be OK, though everything I've seen of hers looks like the people are wearing typical Seraphim vessels (usually in atypical clothing...). I've talked with Robin a number of times at cons, and she apparently doesn't like SJGames for some reason -- I don't know whether it's contractual issues or what. Whatever it is, it's too bad. The only other problem with Robin is that I can't recall seeing anything of hers that isn't basically upbeat. (Which is fine with me, I really like her work.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:53:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... Michael C. Nutt wrote: "I had an instant flash of someone engaging a Seraph deep in his Role in conversation at a party... "So, what does your father do?" "Um... well, I don't really *have* a father as such, but ..."" This reminds me of a bit of dialogue from "Touched by an Angel." One of the angels, Monica, is asked by a minor character how she gets along with her mother. "I don't have a mother." "Oh, I'm sorry," says the human, obviously assuming Monica's mother is dead. "Oh, that's all right," Monica replies distractedly, while watering a plant or something, "I have Someone who watches out for me," and of course the human can't hear the capital S. "Thou shalt not lie. But don't believe Thou art required To un-deceive." -- BurmaShave Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:21:44 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! >Hey, let's play a game! What sort of mischievous fun would YOU have with a >demon's body when it's not home? > Well, considering the fact that my Kyrio character is going for the Word: Disrupter of Evil Plans.... I'd have to find out what the demon was working on and then cause whatever damage to those plans as possible while making sure the demon takes the blame. I'd then make sure that the demon's current vessel gets trashed then walk into a room full of Malikim, flip them off and then vacate the body. The fun, of course, lies in the details. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:53:43 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Smif On Jun 13, 10:02am, Nate Edel wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Smif > Ditto. I'm no big fan on WWG, and In Nomine had done a good > job of differentiating itself from "just another V:tM > Ripoff..." which would have been harder if it looked just like > another V:tM ripoff. > > I *like* Smith's work; I like his stuff too. He's _not_ afraid of color, which is a refreshing change. It'd be nice to have more artists, but until then, I'm content. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:16:35 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Night Music on the way... > Guys, we're a *lot* more concerned about getting it right the first time > than we are with making deadlines. OK, it's true, this is a business you're > in, and you need to have *some* respect for the dreaded deadline... but > don't ever sacrifice a good product just so it can get out the door in a > hurry. I'll buy it, no matter when it comes out, and I'd *much* rather it be > done right weeks or months later than originally planned than done in a > half-assed way on schedule. Personally, I've been *very* pleased with what > I've seen so far here, and I want you to know you have my support, as well > as that of a whole buncha other folks out there. We hear and obey. In fact we are _so_ good, we were doing this (to a degree) even before you asked. ;) But, seriously, Steve has set up an interesting method of checking stuff. Many of the upcoming books are going to have multiple authors so that they can check on each other AND the scripts are available for all the authors/editors/select Superiors to review and check against their own stuff. This should both improve quality and reduce the wait for the hungry masses. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:02:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Shedim Plot Seed Nasty, evil masses of celestial slime, yes, but there must be something more to these pestiliant cesspools... After all, they were once Kyrios, and who says that they have to Fall any worse than any other demon? Charmed Life ============ (Probably for Angels) Pick someone the angel-PCs know, perhaps only vaguely, perhaps a Cherub's attuned, or one with a Bright Destiny. All around this person, Things Are Going Wrong. Their priest is arrested for starting a porn ring; their father turns alcoholic; their mother goes streetwalking; their siblings turn to drugs or crime or Microsoft... But the person in the middle... Remains untouched, physically. No harm comes to him/her from all these people going nuts around him/her. They're even very careful to *hide* their excesses from this central person. When the person goes to apply for a job, the boss installs them in the best office, then goes out poisoning the neighbor's pets. *What* is going *on*? Young Shedite in Love, that's what's going on. Somewhere in the morass of sadistic madness that is a Fallen Kyriotate, there's arisen a spark of emotion, of *protectiveness*, towards a human. Yet the dilimna such a creature faces! How to be near the beloved, get a chance to be close, to watch him/her, maybe to touch...without destroying this human as a Shedite must destroy all it touches? It dares not possess the object of infatuation, knowing him/her in the most intimate way possible, because then it would have to break the mortal's will, warp the human into something lesser than what the demon so admired. So it possesses those close to this desired person, puts the human on a pedestal, and tries to smooth his/her way through life even while it's wrenching apart the lives of those around the chosen one... And what happens if the object of adoration gets a boy/girlfriend? Might keep the PCs busy for a while figuring out what's going on, might not. It would certainly get problematic deciding what to *do*... (Hm. Except for the lack of body-swapping, I think this is starting to sound a little like the plot for _Phantom of the Opera_...) It could also be twisted so that the chosen was being periodically inhabited and urged to strive for great riches/prosperity/what have you. Any who got in the person's way would be ruthlessly exploited by the Shedite... (You could do that anyway, with the first option, and have the PCs wondering if the Object Of Affection was really evil, or just having a streak of good luck while all rivals had bad...) That's probably enough... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:18:58 -0400 From: Donnellys Subject: Re: IN> Tick in In Nomine sorry folks that one went out before its time, and went to storage. My profuse appologies ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:54:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Smif In a message dated 97-06-14 00:07:01 EDT, you write: << At 1:11 PM -0400 6/13/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Seriously, if you don't like Smif, then who *would* you get? Remember! >only name artist's who appear regularly in rpg's. Don't go picking some >fantastically great mainstream artist that no gaming company can possibly >afford!<<< >> I BEG YOUR PARDON! David Edelstein did NOT write that. I DID. Please. I say enough stupid things as it is. Don't go putting words in David's mouth, you'll get him in trouble... ;-) - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:47:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Smif In a message dated 97-06-14 00:02:01 EDT, you write: << My Main problem with Smif, is that I have seen it WAY TOO MUCH! I buy both Gurps and IN books, and it seems at times like he has become the Bull Pen artist. I would like to see either Robin Wood, or Ruth Thompson do some stuff for In-Nomine. Shadowcat >> Hmmm, ok. Offhand the names are not familiar. Where does their stuff appear? I will readily concede that Smif appears frequently, perhaps overly so. But In Nomine is one of the few (the only?) spots where he appears in color. To me that sets it head and shoulders above the rest of his stuff. - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:17:42 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #209 At 16:16 13/06/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 12:24 EDT >From: Walter Milliken >Subject: Re: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? > >>Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or >>whatever. >>What was his word *before* he fell? > >Probably "Light".... > > >- ---Walter I know a lot of people have said this, but I sort of like the idea that he was originally the angel/ seraph of 'Truth', and now he is the Prince of Lies. Myabe for that reason, the word 'Truth' never got reassigned.... jo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 97 08:02:27 UT From: "Hermes Trismegistus" Subject: Re: IN> Loose Thoughts on Gotham City... (Pt 2) >That reminds me...What are the stats for Clock >King. He is an older villian that has made a slight comeback do to the >show. > Shadowcat I thought that clock king was from the Injustice League?? anyway, I'd make him a servant of Kronos (not sure what though, probably Impudite??) Kurt INjustice League in a campaign? Frightening concept ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 16:38:16 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:29:27 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: >Celestial B has two vessels, "Bob" and "Betty". Betty is in the bag. > Bob goes off. >Celestial A has one vessel, "Adam". He finds the bag and uses Song > of Possession to inhabit Betty. He then places Adam into > the bag. The clock starts ticking on the Song. >Bob gets fragged. Celestial B's soul is drawn back to his remaining > vessel, Betty, but is rebuffed and winds up in the Marches. Ok, so B doesn't go into trauma even though his last available vessel dies. >Celestial A has all sorts of wacky adventures, but finally relinquishes > Betty and returns to his own body, Adam. At this point B moves from the Marches into Betty? And if Betty were destroyed, at that point B would go into trauma? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:12:04 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: IN> Seraphs and roles One of my players, not the seraph himself, but another think Seraphs can take roles. I ruled that seraphs resonate for truth. Everyone seems caught up in the lying side of them, can they tell this much or that. They need truth, they are truth. I say that if a Seraph want a role it has to be one easlily filled. They could be a race car driver or actually work as a reporter, but they cannot take a last name. If you have an alias it is not your name. A seraph named Tarmus would be flat out lying if he said my name is Bob Smith. But if asked his name and replied "Call me Bob," then he pulled through. The same way if asked what do you do for a living, he coudln't say his role, but he could say," I work as a_____" Still a role as a family man, or as a soldier or any job that would cause him to forge document to get it would cause dissonance. Just my disorganized two cents! Jahon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:07:45 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Plot Seed Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > SNIPPAGE > Charmed Life > ============ > > (Probably for Angels) > Pick someone the angel-PCs know, perhaps only vaguely, perhaps a > Cherub's attuned, or one with a Bright Destiny. SNIPPAGE > So it possesses those close to this desired person, puts the human > on a pedestal, and tries to smooth his/her way through life even > while it's wrenching apart the lives of those around the chosen > one... > > And what happens if the object of adoration gets a boy/girlfriend? > SNI...ah what the heck, you know the drill..... > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net > GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ what happens with a SO? why, the hellborn so-and-so inhabits them and gets really close to the beloved while trashing the rival, turning them into a thoroughly unlovable person who ends up brokenhearted, trashheaped[?], and in jail or shot escaping custody. And so the Shedim has his/her beloved all to his/herself once more.... tom [you don't think James, the Stone Malakim, would come up with this, do you?] timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:34:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: IN> A Couple of Questions First off, a question that's pretty iffy: If a Balseraph of Fate took on the resonance of the Cherubim, would that be close enough to allow them to take the Djinn of fate attunement? Next, could a Balseraph of Fate take the resonance of the Seraphim? My thought would be yes, but self-use of the resonance would obviously be out and if the demon was ever caught in a lie, that would be double dissonance! Now to go play in the flowers... Is a Seraph of Flowers able to ignore hir own aura of peace? (I assume that they can't turn it off temporarily...) And now the obligatory Kyriotate question. When a Kyriotate of Flowers possesses a plant, he uses his own Agility, but the Strength of the plant. Does it still calculate body hits with its own strength? Also, what would be the stats for different vegetation? (Strength, Proctection, vessel level, number of forces...) Oops da Ogre, keeping everyone at SJGames busy mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:33:25 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> So, what was Lucifer's Word? Message text written byNiall Teasdale >Okay, so Lucifer fell and became the Prince of Lies, or Evil, or whatever. What was his word *before* he fell? < Lucifer is on occasions refered to as Lucifer Morningstar or The Peacock Angel or the Son of the Morning. Isiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! So I'd say his word used to be Light or Morning He was also I think the commander of the Heavenly Host before the Fall and possibly a Djinni [made of smokeless flame rather than the pure light that angels are made of.] The description in the Koran [Qu'ran, etc] of Iblis is in the following text And when we said to the angels, Adore Adam,' they adored him, save only Iblis, who was of the djinn, who revolted from the bidding of his Lord. The Chapter of the Cave Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. Zec 3:2 And the LORD said to Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:30:57 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Raphael [Charybdis] > "Well, in the R.A. MacAvoy novels Raphael is a Seraph who befriends a > mortal witch, Damiamo, and teaches him music..." [Earl] >Damiano *calls* Raphael "seraph" as a kind of nickname or affectionate >honorific, but at one point, at least, reflects that Raphael is not >really a seraph. Hmmmm... I don't remember that... I definitely need to re-read the series... I shall have to dig it up from the depths of my bookshelf... [Earl} > Raphael is more often called an "archangel," one >of a traditional set of four, along with Michael, Gabriel, and Uriel. >I don't remember clearly, but Satan may be depicted as a fallen >archangel. At least, Raphael speaks of Satan as his estranged >brother. And Satan too, if I remember correctly, calls Raphael brother... [Earl] >I don't think either "archangel" or "seraph" can be taken in any >way that maps clearly to the IN concepts that use those names. While >Raphael is certainly truthful, I don't know that he exhibits the >concern with truth that an IN Seraph seems to have. I rather thought he did... Again, it's been a while since I read the series, but I seem to recall one instance in particular that dealt with truth. Just after he was purchased by his master, the Berber woman (who's name escapes me at the moment) tells him that for his own safety he needs to conceal the fact that he is a man and not a eunuch. Raphael seems utterly shocked by this and says something to the effect of "but that is like a lie...." [Earl] > He is so gentle and approachable, I tend to feel Mercurian is the most plausible >choir for him. But the impression I got from the story was that he was not *supposed* to be approachable... That it was this openness that caused his downfall... That such weakened him... So such socialization could hardly be his natural state, as it would be if he were a Mercurian... [Charybdis] > "Through extended contact with mortals in general and Damiamo in > particular, he becomes "sullied" by contact with the Earth and is > weakened to the point that Lucifer is able to strip him of his > angelic powers and toss him to Earth as a mortal... [Earl] >"Weakened," yes, but I'd dispute "sullied." Raphael himself tells >Lucifer that "I have done nothing against the will of our Father." >(To which Lucifer replies with a heated "He's not my father!") I would dispute the "sullied" which is why I put it in quotes... I should have been more clear, I guess... [Charybdis] > "To do him from those novels (rather than from Biblical canon), I'd > probably do him as a Seraph of Beauty (or of Music)..." [Earl] >That would be fine (waiving the issue of choir). I'd specify music. Yeah, I think I agree here... I'm gonna re-read the trilogy before working on it any further... once I do, I'll post it for everyone to read... [Earl] >Working from the book of Tobit, where Raphael first appears, if I >recall correctly, I'd make him an angel of healing and/or exorcism. That's why I specified as based on the RA MacAvoy novels... because he is portrayed differently than is traditional.... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "God is an iron."** ** --Spider Robinson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:42:00 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> ...Running a Mixed Troupe. [Andre Ribeiro] >> Well, anyway, how do you guys manage to be GM of a troupe of Angels >> *and* Demons? I got a strong reason (one of the characters is the son of I haven't actually tried it yet, but... I was thinking that it might be possible to run a small mixed group of angels and demons who shared service to the same Word. Perhaps if, for some reason or other, their Word was threatened-- loosing power, respect, usage, etc-- they might band together to re-establish the importance of the Word itself. No specific examples yet-- just something I was tossing about in my mind... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "God is an iron."** ** --Spider Robinson ** ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #210 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.