From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jun 15 19:07:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05324 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:07:24 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15163 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:46:26 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:46:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199706152246.RAA15163@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #211 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, June 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 211 In this digest: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Body Bagging IN> Smif IN> Smif Re: IN> Night Music on the way/pep talk Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... Re: IN> Character Types Re: IN> Seraphs and roles Re: IN> A Couple of Questions IN> Fun you can have if you find a demonic vessel Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Seraphs and roles IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Body Bagging Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) IN> Re: Oops' iffy questions Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... Re: IN> Night Music on the way/pep talk Re: IN> ...Running a Mixed Troupe. Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... Re: IN> Seraphs and roles IN> Project Uriel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 16:26:33 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Choirs and Bands [ODie wrote:] >> > Interesting. Do the favoured Choir/Band correspond, in general? In >> > other words, do people prefer, say, Seraphim and Balseraphs, or I dunno... On first reading, I was most excited about playing an Ofanim or a Mercurian on the Angelic side, or a Balseraph or a Calabim on the Demonic side... Which puts it at a 50-50 correspondence... I was most turned off by the Elohim and the Malakite, angelically and the Djinn demonically. Looking at Superiors, I found Eli, Janus, and Litheroy most appealing angelically, and Vapula, and Nybbas most appealing demonically. I was most turned off by Dominic and Novalis angelically and by Asomodeus demonically. Actually, looking at the trends, I think I lean towards chaos over order, regardless of the side... And in certain combinations I think my initial impressions have shifted. Though I was at first turned off by Malakites, the concept of playing a Malakim of Eli appealed... Though Seraphs in generally did not appeal, a Seraph of Janus did... I always did like roleplaying internal conflict... It's that chaos thing again, I guess... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "God is an iron."** ** --Spider Robinson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:00:09 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Body Bagging [Damian O'Dea] >What I was really trying to do was get around to complementing some of >the excellent contributors; Archangel Beth, yourself, GreyDragon, the >Quixotic Ninja, etc (to name those I remember on the spot) and all the >little relievers and gremlins who post such ideas to the >list. Several of these are being incorporated into my campaign even as >we speak / read / post, and so thanks to the collective mind. Wow! I never thought to make it into a list of such eloquent company after such a short time on the list.. Thanks.. :) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "God is an iron."** ** --Spider Robinson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:35:10 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Smif >>>I BEG YOUR PARDON! David Edelstein did NOT write that. I DID. Please. I say enough stupid things as it is. Don't go putting words in David's mouth, you'll get him in trouble... ;-)<<< That's what happens when people use auto-quotes with their e-mail software....we see exchanges by several different commentators pasted into one long quote, and all attributed to whomever happens to be the last in the thread. - -David (I hate auto-quoters) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:35:12 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Smif >>>Michael Whelan.<<< Oops. (And I have so many artists' books on my shelves, too, you'd think I'd get the names right!) >>>>I would like to see either Robin Wood, or Ruth Thompson do some >stuff for In-Nomine.<<< Frankly, I found a lot of Ruth Thompson's stuff (especially in GURPS Middle Ages and GURPS Camelot) to be not that much better than I could do myself. And I'm no artist. Would someone kindly refresh my memory and tell me who Robin Wood is and what game stuff she's done? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:35:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Night Music on the way/pep talk Michael Nutt commented... > Guys, we're a *lot* more concerned about getting it right the first time > than we are with making deadlines. OK, it's true, this is a business Just wanted to throw in a "Yeah, definitely"; it's not entirely topical, but I think it's important enough. (We picked up the Goblins supplement for GURPS, not because we had any particular use for it..or even interest in the specific topic, really..but just because it was - -THAT- well done. It's more under artwork than game supplement..) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:18:09 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Donald Bixler had a few questions...(Okay, so I'm hardly from SJGames, but you can keep me busy, too...) > If a Balseraph of Fate took on the resonance of the Cherubim, would that > be close enough to allow them to take the Djinn of fate attunement? I wouldn't think so..they take Resonances by it, not Attunements, and I see the two as distinctly separate...particularly in the note that where Resonances are a matter of nature, Attunements are specifically given, so I don't think one would ever just accidentally `pick up' an Attunement like that... > Next, could a Balseraph of Fate take the resonance of the > Seraphim? My thought would be yes, but self-use of the resonance would Sure...it's important to keep in mind, in any interaction between Seraphim and Balseraphs, that the Balseraph can't actually lie either - they just get to custom design their own view of reality, and then believe it. So taking the Seraphim Resonance wouldn't really entail any more problems for them than any other...essentially, they'd then generate Dissonance for any deliberate lie (eg. telling someone something that violates what they currently `believe') for the Seraphim Resonance, and get Dissonance from their own when someone else points out a conflict in their view...but while the difference is somewhat subtle, it's distinct enough that they don't really get `double' dissonance for either. > Now to go play in the flowers... Is a Seraph of Flowers able to > ignore hir own aura of peace? (I assume that they can't turn it off > temporarily...) I wouldn't think so...and, for that matter, I wouldn't assume that, either. The Archangels don't have to be so reasonable, after all, and Novalis has no interest in outfitting her Seraphim with something so militant and unfair as to be the only ones able to act in combat. Seraphim of Flowers are supposed to work AGAINST combat, and Novalis Attunes them thusly - I think they have to make the same Will roll as anyone else, though, of course, always at `ground zero', for any combat action... {Face it - Novalis can be an extremely powerful Superior in a politically oriented campaign, but tends to fall out as just obnoxious in a combat oriented one...} The Kyriotate question I'll leave to the official folk, though...(well, or whoever else feels like dealing with it, of course. My only comment on it is the general note that I'd handle the smaller ones - grasses and regular flowers and whatnot - under a similar aspect to the `swarm' rule on insects...eg. they possess not a blade, but a clump of grass equal to a couple square feet for every Force worth of grass they're inhabiting.) {Hehe..though it does bring up the question - do flowers (or stone, for Kyrios of David) dream?} ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:01:53 +1300 From: Brian Logan Subject: Re: IN> Seeing Artifacts >>Hope the thoughts are useful. I'm feeling vague today. > >Oh, dear. Time to switch hosts? Ok, hands up att the kyrios on this list. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:48:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... > > This is not actually a lie. A person may have many names > >and use the one that is most convenient. In game terms, if you I'd definitely be inclined to count Roles as `not lying'...(With a high enough Level of the Role, it seems, even the paperwork gets taken care of by the Symphony, which should neatly evade the problem that..someone..was mentioning regarding Roles in the military and similar. The Seraph still couldn't deliberately forge something, but taking on a Role doesn't necessarily qualify...this, to me, is one of the reasons they cost points. ) I had a character, in an entirely different game, who was asked if his name was really Flyzzywizzy; his response was, "I am who I say I am, whatever that may be." As long as you intend to ANSWER to the name you give, then it's cool. (If someone asks, "What's your true name?", that might be another matter, but if someone asks a Seraph THAT, chances are darned good it's a Djinn who's figured out what they are and is being obnoxious, so the Seraph is probably well in his rights to ignore the question and manifest his Flaming Sword instead... Which, come to think of it, is an honest enough answer to the question.) > I had an instant flash of someone engaging a Seraph deep in his Role in > conversation at a party... "So, what does your father do?" "Um... well, I Aw, that one's easy...they all have a Father, after all. Response, "Oh, this and that." "He's an artist..he paints sunsets, mostly." "He's kind of an inventor." Heck, it'd be almost impossible TO lie in response to that question, by some views... > Celestials are *supposed* to keep secret the true nature of the Symphony > (well, angels, at least... mostly). Sometimes they'll be confronted with Though true, I generally see this as one of the potential quandaries any Seraph has to face...and probably one of the reasons they, as `most holy', are the least human and most rarely given `earth duty'...too likely to either be lost or have to give things away they shouldn't. (Even given a Role, they can get in trouble too easily...Roles tend to be pretty limited. "What do you do?" "Oh, I'm a private detective." "No..in your spare time." "Uh, er, ahh...I, uh..ulp. Combat the forces of darkness in a great game on which the fate of the earth is balanced. D'oh!") > This sums it up pretty nicely, yep, but I'm willing to make small > compromises if he at least *tries* to keep within the spirit of the truth. I'm willing to let them slide for a WHILE, but if they start to take it for granted, that strikes me as a sign that the character has slipped a bit and should pick up the Dissonance...(eg., as long as they seem to REGRET those little cover-ups, they should be OK. When they start really trying to use them, they're lying.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:32:09 +1300 From: Brian Logan Subject: Re: IN> Character Types At 04:20 pm 13/06/97 -0400, you wrote: [...] >Special abilities? Who needs special abilities? Special *PROBLEMS*, >now... (Who, me, take Amnesia as a disad twice in two different >games? Would I do a thing like that? ) Did you *forget* that you had? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:43:54 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > > One of my players, not the seraph himself, but another think Seraphs can > take roles. I ruled that seraphs resonate for truth. Everyone seems > caught up in the lying side of them, can they tell this much or that. > They need truth, they are truth. I say that if a Seraph want a role it > has to be one easlily filled. They could be a race car driver or actually > work as a reporter, but they cannot take a last name. If you have an > alias it is not your name. A seraph named Tarmus would be flat out lying > if he said my name is Bob Smith. But if asked his name and replied "Call > me Bob," then he pulled through. > The same way if asked what do you do for a living, he coudln't say his > role, but he could say," I work as a_____" Still a role as a family man, > or as a soldier or any job that would cause him to forge document to get > it would cause dissonance. Just my disorganized two cents! > I don't know... I've been thinking about what a Role does, apart from just being a way to mask celestial noise. If Seraphs can't benefit properly from Roles, it seems unfair, and it reduces my interest in playing one. Servitors of Litheroy can't maintain Roles, because (GM Pack, p18) "a Role is a lie and a secret". A secret, certainly, but not neccessarily a lie. In my mind, you have to live a Role to make it work - if you have a Role of Steelworker/4, you'd better be prepared to put in the hours at the factory getting your hands dirty. The game seems to support this view to a certain extent, since it requires PCs with a Role to buy appropriate skills for maintaining that Role. Now, if you're a Seraph of David, working as a coalminer, and someone asks you 'Are you a coal-miner', I'd rule that it _isn't_ a lie, since you _are_ a coal-miner - as well as being an Angel. Now, if someone asks you 'are you an angel?', you have to be cagy... Servitors of Litheroy can't maintain Roles because they're forbidden to hold back that bit of information, to keep the secret of being an angel. Seraphs shouldn't be in that same boat. A Role shouldn't simply be a mask that the PC uses at will. If they have a Role at a high enough level, that Role should form a major portion of their lives. The Seraph of David has to care that there have been lay-offs at the mine, not because there's Diabolical involvement, but because his lifestyle is under threat. Take a Role at a decent level, and it should be _part_of_you_. And it's not a lie to tell people about part of yourself. Now sure, if people start question this Seraph about particular things in his Role, like "what was your father's name", or "where were you born", then things get a bit trickier. The Role's past is fiction, even if the present is truth. That's when the Seraph has to start the creative obfuscation... or scream "Hey! Is that Elvis?" and run when everyone turns to look... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Jazz crowd, walking 'round the gallery, Walking 'round the gallery: "Where'd all the dip go? Where'd all the dip go? "Where'd all the dip go? Is there any more red wine? "Any more red wine? Where'd all the dip go?" ANDY PRIEBOY, "The New York Debut of an LA Artist" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:39:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions > Donald Bixler had a few questions...(Okay, so I'm hardly from SJGames, but > you can keep me busy, too...) As if the various campaigns you're associated with wouldn't? *chuckyl* > > If a Balseraph of Fate took on the resonance of the Cherubim, would that > > be close enough to allow them to take the Djinn of fate attunement? > I wouldn't think so..they take Resonances by it, not Attunements, > and I see the two as distinctly separate...particularly in the note that > where Resonances are a matter of nature, Attunements are specifically > given, so I don't think one would ever just accidentally `pick up' an > Attunement like that... I didn't think it would be, ,but I wanted to see an official SJ ruling on it since the Cherubim and Djinn are the only Choir/Band that are so similar in their resonances... > > Next, could a Balseraph of Fate take the resonance of the > > Seraphim? My thought would be yes, but self-use of the resonance would > Sure...it's important to keep in mind, in any interaction between > Seraphim and Balseraphs, that the Balseraph can't actually lie either - > they just get to custom design their own view of reality, and then believe > it. So taking the Seraphim Resonance wouldn't really entail any more > problems for them than any other...essentially, they'd then generate > Dissonance for any deliberate lie (eg. telling someone something that > violates what they currently `believe') for the Seraphim Resonance, and > get Dissonance from their own when someone else points out a conflict in > their view...but while the difference is somewhat subtle, it's distinct > enough that they don't really get `double' dissonance for either. Good point. It would certainly make the Balseraph's life more challenging, but it'd certainly be an interesting character. I'm glad you and MaBarry are around; with all of the practice with Amber/Chaos/Lessima/Whatever, you've certainly had lots of practice pondering the wierder concepts. (Yes, that was a compliment. ;'} ) > > Now to go play in the flowers... Is a Seraph of Flowers able to > > ignore hir own aura of peace? (I assume that they can't turn it off > > temporarily...) > I wouldn't think so...and, for that matter, I wouldn't assume > that, either. The Archangels don't have to be so reasonable, after all, One second. You wouldn't assume that the attunement is constant? That seems out of context with the rest of your comment. > and Novalis has no interest in outfitting her Seraphim with something so > militant and unfair as to be the only ones able to act in combat. > Seraphim of Flowers are supposed to work AGAINST combat, and Novalis > Attunes them thusly - I think they have to make the same Will roll as > anyone else, though, of course, always at `ground zero', for any combat > action... > {Face it - Novalis can be an extremely powerful Superior in a politically > oriented campaign, but tends to fall out as just obnoxious in a combat > oriented one...} As far as combat goes, if a servant of Novalis _really_ needs some ass-kicking done, that's when you ask the Cherub of Jordi with the Jaguar/6 vessel for a favor... > The Kyriotate question I'll leave to the official folk, > though...(well, or whoever else feels like dealing with it, of course. My > only comment on it is the general note that I'd handle the smaller ones - > grasses and regular flowers and whatnot - under a similar aspect to the > `swarm' rule on insects...eg. they possess not a blade, but a clump of > grass equal to a couple square feet for every Force worth of grass they're > inhabiting.) {Hehe..though it does bring up the question - do flowers (or > stone, for Kyrios of David) dream?} That would be some of the funkiest areas of the Marches around. The Dreamlands of sandstone and honeysuckle... Here's a wierd thought. Could the Kyrio possess seeds? If so, I can imagine some poor soldier of Hell with hayfever being chased by a malignant cloud of pollen or dandelion seeds. Oops da Ogre, Silly and likely to get to go to GenCon (Yippee!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:18:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: IN> Fun you can have if you find a demonic vessel In a message dated 97-06-14 05:04:56 EDT, you write: << >Hey, let's play a game! What sort of mischievous fun would YOU have with a >demon's body when it's not home? > Well, considering the fact that my Kyrio character is going for the Word: Disrupter of Evil Plans.... >> My player's gave me a few today... A) Leave the body bag at an airport luggage collection area B) Booby trap a grenade in the body's pocket C) Bring the body to a tether, put it in a pool of holy water, weighted, with the bag sealed. D)have the malakim of the party do horrible things to the body. If the demon comes home...awwwww. Well that just what the malak was waiting for, wasn't it? - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:31:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Smif In a message dated 97-06-14 13:54:12 EDT, you write: << BEG YOUR PARDON! David Edelstein did NOT write that. I DID. Please. I say enough stupid things as it is. Don't go putting words in David's mouth, you'll get him in trouble... ;-) >> Oops. I'm Sorry, that was a bit premature. You quoted correctly and the mistake was mine. I got your reply before I got his and it caused confusion. So sorry then to put words in YOUR mouth. (I told you I said stupid things.....) ;-) Seriously with everyone quoting everyone and messages sometimes coming back out of synch it can get very easy to misunderstand each other. - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:56:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles In a message dated 97-06-14 20:35:33 EDT, you write: << One of my players, not the seraph himself, but another think Seraphs can take roles. I ruled that seraphs resonate for truth. Everyone seems caught up in the lying side of them, can they tell this much or that. They need truth, they are truth. I say that if a Seraph want a role it has to be one easlily filled. They could be a race car driver or actually work as a reporter, but they cannot take a last name. If you have an alias it is not your name. A seraph named Tarmus would be flat out lying if he said my name is Bob Smith. But if asked his name and replied "Call me Bob," then he pulled through. >> You are actually not so much caught up in the tangle of being a seraph as you are caught up in the tangle of roles. In my game universe I came to the following (heretical?) rules interpretation... If I am a seraph and I claim to be Ricardo Hendricez, a gas station operator I very well may not be lying. If I have a role at level 6 I *am* Ricardo. I have a history. I am documented. I have parents. They adopted me, gave me their name, and raised me. It is as real as their commitment. This is recognized by the law of both the corpereal and the celestial realm. Interestingly in my game the step parents of angels are usually Soggies (From SOG- Soldiers of God) Ricardo could be lying if he had a low level role. If anyone asked directly if he were an angel he would be faced with a tough choice. Say yes, or suffer dissonance. In my game having a poor role has it's advantages. If you take a level 6 role then it's real, so you don't get moved around much. A player with a level two role can shut down and relocate much more easily. Of course, you aren't assumed to have many contacts or friends... - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:49:56 +1300 From: Brian Logan Subject: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Anyone want to comment on this combination. We have a player who always likes playing heroes. He has tried playing a few demons already and has not been overly comfortable with it. The other players include 2 Calibims of Fire, (one subtle and one blatent); and an impudite of Kronos (yours truely). Can anyone see any problems with the fourth player's character> Can they suggest any other character? This is in a campaign where the impudite had to protect a kyrio from one of the calibim who was using a machine gun, and me with only a corporeal song of shields. :) Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 05:22:33 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Body Bagging [Elizabeth McCoy] >Whereas I wish I were some kind of mental Ofanite, so I could >get *all* of them. Hm. And multitask utterly, so I could get them >into HTML format and slapped onto the web-page. (Which got >updated yesterday, BTW. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles .) And you left off another 5-6 hours in each day, so that I have time for all the really important things-- like gaming, planning campaigns, and writing e-mail-- in addition to the sad trivialities like eating, sleeping, and work... :) As it is, with all the PBEM games I play and run, I spend about 2 hours a day answering mail, and most days feel I'm falling behind. But... just to add to the problem... My husband is starting a In Nomine PBEM game, and if you'd be interested in playing, check out our web site (http://www.phoenix.net/~krilion) on the games listings section for details or just e-mail him at krilion@phoenix.net. Yes, I know this is a blatant plug, but *I* want to play, and I can't until we get some more players... :) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) On Sun, 15 Jun 1997, Brian Logan wrote: > Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) > > Anyone want to comment on this combination. Mmm. Sounds like a demon who will die very quickly. You get the Dissonance along with the Resonance, and part of the Malakim Dissonace is that they must take an oath "not to suffer evil to live". The demon would find himself with the unenviable choice of killing himself or racking up Dissonance until he exploded. Even if he somehow convinced himself that *he* was not evil (e.g. he was a Habbalite instead of a Calabite), he would still be forced to hunt all his demonic companions. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:55:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Re: Oops' iffy questions On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, at 14:34:20 CDT, Oops da "Donald G Bixler" Ogre wrote: > First off, a question that's pretty iffy: >If a Balseraph of Fate took on the resonance of the Cherubim, would that >be close enough to allow them to take the Djinn of fate attunement? I'd say so. In fact, as I think I mentioned before (I certainly intended to mention it), I realized after thinking about it that in my write-up of Screwtape, he should have had the Cherub resonance and the Djinn of Fate attunement. (Beth, please insert this as a note in his listing.) > Next, could a Balseraph of Fate take the resonance of the >Seraphim? My thought would be yes, Likewise. >but self-use of the resonance would >obviously be out and if the demon was ever caught in a lie, that would >be double dissonance! Ooh...I *like* it. Go for it, I say. (But that's just my opinion, I don't know what if anything Karakash has said.) > Now to go play in the flowers... Is a Seraph of Flowers able to >ignore hir own aura of peace? (I assume that they can't turn it off >temporarily...) As Beth's mother says, "Blest and bedamned if I know." It doesn't even say for sure that the Seraph *is* affected by the aura. (Though, for all I know, this question may have already been answered.) > And now the obligatory Kyriotate question. When a Kyriotate of >Flowers possesses a plant, he uses his own Agility, but the Strength of >the plant. Does it still calculate body hits with its own strength? I'd say so. The formula, then, would be ((Kyrio's Corporeal Forces + plant's Corp. Forces) * Str), assuming that plants, as corporeal life, automatically have Vessel level equal to their Corp. Forces. >Also, what would be the stats for different vegetation? (Strength, >Proctection, vessel level, number of forces...) > This I must temporarily handwave as an exercise for our old buddy the Apt Pupil. I will opine, however, that a typical plant probably has most of its Forces in the Corporeal category, and maybe 1 Eth and/or 1 Cel (Per) if it's lucky. Or if it *does* have more, we can't understand how they work. Hopefully, the listing on Novalis will go into detail on this. Austin George "If there is one" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:33:03 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... [Earl Wajenberg] > "Thou shalt not lie. > But don't believe > Thou art required > To un-deceive." > -- BurmaShave Reminds me of a poem I came across way back in high school when I was doing research on Victorian London for a game I was running... The poem is called "The Latest Decalogue" and I will reprint it here in that after a hundred years I doubt there are any copyright issues... The Latest Decalogue by Arthur Hugh Clough Thou shalt have one God only; who Would be at the expense of two? No graven images may be Worshiped, except the currency: Swear not at all, for for thy curse Thine enemy is none the worse: At church on Sunday to attend Will serve to keep the world thy friend: Honour thy parents, that is all From whom advancement my befall: Thou shalt not kill, but needst not strive Officiously to keep alive: Do not adultery commit, Advantage rarely comes of it: Thou shalt not steal; an empty feat, When it's so lucrative to cheat: Bear not false witness; let the lie Have time on its own wings to fly: Thou shalt not covet; but tradition Approves all forms of competition. Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: Re: IN> Night Music on the way/pep talk does anyone have a release date for NIght Music? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:34:02 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> ...Running a Mixed Troupe. Charybdis GreyDragon wrote: > I was thinking that it might be > possible to run a small mixed group of angels and demons who shared > service > to the same Word. In my campaign, I managed to get the troupe centered around a human and a Seraph. The human is a senator who is running for president. The Seraph, of Janus, is his daughter, in a Role/6 vessel. There's also a Cherubim of David, who bodyguards the senator; a Seraph of Mark, who raises funds for the campaign and a Kyrio who is the Seraph girl's best friend (and she loves petting his other vessel, a cocker spaniel dog...). There's also a Mercurian of Eli (now serving Yves) who wanders the Earth looking for his former Archangel and enjoys teaching - he's just arrived and is going to be the girl's tutor. The infernal part comprises a Haballah FBI agent, who will watch the senator for the Bureau; a Djinn, who owns the pub frequented by the girl and her Kyrio friend and a Sheddim who befriends the Djinn and who knew the Kyrio before his fall. This Sheddim also knew the Seraph girl in a previous 'life' of hers, but this is another story... The senator is a strong link in my campaign, as is the previous relationship between the Sheddim and the Seraph girl. There's still no explicit mission, but the characters are all connected in some way - so that something that affects one will certainly spill on the others... Now the chronicle may begin - any opinions?? Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:04:01 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... [Kingsley Lintz ] > Though true, I generally see this as one of the potential >quandaries any Seraph has to face... And what makes them interesting to play... :) [Kingsley Lintz ] > and probably one of the reasons they, >as `most holy', are the least human and most rarely given `earth >duty'...too likely to either be lost or have to give things away they >shouldn't. (Even given a Role, they can get in trouble too easily...Roles >tend to be pretty limited. "What do you do?" "Oh, I'm a private >detective." "No..in your spare time." "Uh, er, ahh...I, uh..ulp. Combat >the forces of darkness in a great game on which the fate of the earth is >balanced. D'oh!") Hmmm... How 'bout the ever popular, "Spare time? What spare time?" I mean, how much spare time does an angel really have? And if the angel really *does* have spare time, an answer wouldn't necessarily be that hard. "Not much, I'm pretty boring really." or "I enjoy visiting with my friends." or "I travel quite a bit." Or "I'm a student of Truth..." [Kingsley Lintz ] > I'm willing to let them slide for a WHILE, but if they start to >take it for granted, that strikes me as a sign that the character has >slipped a bit and should pick up the Dissonance...(eg., as long as they >seem to REGRET those little cover-ups, they should be OK. When they start >really trying to use them, they're lying.) Works for me... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:52:10 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles [Jahon] >One of my players, not the seraph himself, but another think Seraphs can >take roles. They can take roles... They just have to be careful about what roles they take and how they interact while in those rolls. [Jahon] > I ruled that seraphs resonate for truth. Everyone seems >caught up in the lying side of them, can they tell this much or that. >They need truth, they are truth. I say that if a Seraph want a role it >has to be one easlily filled. They could be a race car driver or actually >work as a reporter, but they cannot take a last name. Why not? A last name is no harder to get around than a first name? ((And just to be a total smart-hoop, where is it written that angels can't have last names. )) [Jahon] > If you have an alias it is not your name. A seraph named Tarmus would be flat out lying >if he said my name is Bob Smith. But if asked his name and replied "Call >me Bob," then he pulled through. I always prefer, "They call me Bob Smith..." Or "The name plate on the door reads Bob Smith..." Then you can cover last names... Alternatively, use a last name that is descriptive, as surnames were originally intended to be: i.e. Police officer: "So, what's your name." Jeremiah (actually, he's a Ofanim of Litheroy, but he has the same problem with Truth): "Jeremiah." Police officer: "What's your *full* name, Jeremiah?" Jeremiah, shaking his head, "It's just Jeremiah." Police officer: "Don't get smart with me, Jeremiah. What's your last name?" Jeremiah, rolling his eyes heavenward, "deAngelo..." I think the deAngelo, meaning "of the Angels" reveals the truth about him, even if the officer is likely to be blind to it... Jeremiah hasn't lied, in fact, he's given more truth than is really wise, and yet the police officer is off his back... At least until they run prints/names/etc and find Jeremiah deAngelo doesn't exist... {Jahon] > The same way if asked what do you do for a living, he couldn't say his >role, but he could say," I work as a_____" Exactly... And of course there's the ever possible, "Would you believe me if I told you I was an angel?" When the listener says no or rolls his eyes or chuckles or whatever, then go on, "Okay, then would you believe me if I told you I was a ?" You never claimed to really be that role... But that is the assumption most listeners would make... [Jahon] > Still a role as a family man, or as a soldier or any job that would cause him to forge > document to get it would cause dissonance. Just my disorganized two cents! Yeah, I can see that. Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:36:29 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: IN> Project Uriel Have Uriel's stats been printed in a supplement or here on the list yet? I'm on my way to th web page to see if he's there.... - ------- zingaro@peak.org WeSaySo -- We know what you want. We know what you need. We know where you live ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #211 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.