From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 17 18:22:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00887 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:22:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12704 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:22:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:22:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199706172022.PAA12704@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #214 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 214 In this digest: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Re: IN> Playing musical vessels. Re: IN> Arches&Princes IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #212 Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... IN> Uriel IN> "My name is..." Re: IN> A Couple of Questions IN> Novalis, pro & con IN> familiars Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain Re: IN> Playing musical vessels. Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Seraphs and roles Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Re: IN> Re: Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Arches&Princes IN> Goals for Lilim (and seraphim in white latex) IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:20:57 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles > If you're a Seraph, learn how to obfusticate and just not answer the > question... I think everyone is overlooking the potentional for entertaining roleplaying in playing a Seraph who *doesn't* try to evade difficult questions.... why not? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:39:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions John Karakash said from On High (though I won't ask just what he's been smoking..) > identical. Kronos has an attunement for Djinn, not for Cherubs. Besides, next they'll be wanting the Kronos attunement for Tonic... > clever enough to pull this one off, go for it! But EACH use of > the Balseraph Resonance involves a lie and would generate dissonance > for the demon. Umm...that I'd disagree with; remember, the Balseraph description, regarding their own Dissonance, specifically notes, "..a Balseraph is still a Seraph at heart. A Balseraph would no more lie to you - from his perspective - than his Heavenly counterpart would." Telling a deliberate lie (eg. not fitting his world view to it before he says something) would cause the Balseraph the Seraphim Dissonance, but as long as he's telling the `truth' as he `knows' it, I think he'd be alright. (Well...okay, I'm a sadist at heart - if he used the Seraph Resonance and got a 6 on the check digit, suddenly seeing the Truth would not only hit him with a Dissonance, but probably work a bit like a Habbalah rolling that 111 when invoking Emptiness. Come to think of it, if any Demon using the Balseraph of Kronos Attunement rolled a 111, I could see it acting that way, but this would be even riskier...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:47:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Playing musical vessels. > > up a fight, and so it doesn't seem likely to get a role. But would it get a > > roll when the owner returns? > I gave no roll for the vessel since it didn't currently have > an inhabitant. Another poster went the opposite route and let the > empty vessel get a roll as if it were 'occupied'. By my way of Actually, another complication occurred to me earlier today - once the Vessel leaves the Body Bag, it dies in five minutes. Now, there's certainly a case that that's only if it's empty, and would therefor be countered by having been stolen (though I'd say the stealer DOES still have to spend the same point of Essence for it each day that the Bag did, though that'll only come into play for a Kyrio or Sheddim doing it, since the Song is measured in minutes..) BUT, I do think there's a good case for the opposite - eg. that possessing the `dying' Vessel no more stops it from dying than possessing someone who's just had their head cut off will stop them... {Of course, on the other hand, it also brings up the point that if the posessing Celestial `brings along' more Hits than they originally had, it might be a perfectly valid way of saving someone's life...hmm...if only for the amusing image of someone important to a Djinn getting hit by a truck, flying thirty feet and smashing into a wall...and then, just before the last flicker of life leaves their body, they suddenly leap up - all on broken bones - and start yelling, "Quick! Somebody get me to a hospital!" Morbid, but amusing.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:23:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes > the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what > would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have Stats? We're talking about the people who -GIVE- Attunements, and possibly the one who hands out Words...they don't need no steen-king stats. Demon Prices (or Archangels) will react to such stupidity based more on their nature than on any kind of `stats' - getting one really annoyed IS at least as stupid as putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, so it's fair of the GM to file it under `attempted suicide' and just have the Prince succeed...eg. Haagenti eats them, Belial toasts them, Nybbas gets permission from Lucifer to start broadcasting a half-hour special entitled "The Tormenting of ______" across Hell, Vapula hooks them up to his latest invention - you know, the one he's not quite sure if it's going to work or not, but one way or another it's going to suck up all their Essence and three Forces just to fuel one shot...that sort of thing. Once one player is moving off to the side to roll up a new character on account of having been seriously stupid around a Demon Prince, hopefully the others will settle down a bit. {I should note, in most games I really don't go for `invincible NPCs'...but in In Nomine, these are the people you -GET- your power, and indeed, existance from...it's reasonable that they can take it away. If you're really worried about it, just throw that comment in to the introduction...at LEAST make sure they remember that these guys have their Hearts in the next room.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:34:11 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #212 > >******AND NOW FOR THE TYPICAL INTRODUCTION TO A MAILING LIST****** > >Hi! I'm new to this list, so forgive me if this question has been asked >before... but... > >Who is Litheroy? I know s/he's some kind of Superior, but what is his/her >Word? > >Which Side is s/he on? > >Where can I find information on him/her? > >(Come to think of it... that intro wasn't very typical, was it?) B-) > >Thomas Davidson >tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us Litheroy is the Archangel of Relevations. You can find out about him and the Demon Prince Of Secrets in the GM's Pack. >You were most turned off by *Novalis*?! The universe's ultimate "Hippy >Chick"? How could you not love an angel who actually knew whom Jimi >Hendrix and Janis Joplin were? And is actually...well... nice? (with the >*possible* exception of Yves and Eli). I mean, Dominic I understand... >he isn't exactly fun at parties (I know he won't be invited to any more >of /mine/ after the mess he made of the last one ;) ... and we won't even >talk about what Michael did...). Show of hands of anyone who didn't look >at Novalis's picture in the Rulebook and say, "Cool! Janis Joplin!" > >Sheesh. Young people these days... I like Novalis just fine, but I can see some problems with her. She's just a little *too* nice, you know? It's all well and good to be a kind and gentle soul, but there is a *WAR* going on. The demons fight *dirty*. Hell, some of the other angels do, too. Novalis' open-arm ways leave plenty of room for a knife in the back. >You can maintain a Role without lying. To use your example, you can say >something droll like "It says Bob Smith on my driver's license". As a GM, I >would definitely start giving a Seraph dissonance if they were too loose >about what they were saying. No one said being a Seraph was easy. Yep.... our friendly neighborhood Seraph of Janus, carrying stolen ID, was stopped by customs the other day and asked "Is this your passport, sir?" His reply: "It is currently in my possession, yes." - -Rogue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:14:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) > We have a player who always likes playing heroes. He has tried playing a few > demons already and has not been overly comfortable with it. The other Well, without knowing what he's already tried, I can only throw out the easy suggestions first...almost any Habbalite has the `heroic' potential, since they believe they're still on that side... Otherwise; Impudite of War. With their emphasis for honorable combat, they're probably the demons best suited for `heroic' play. (If he didn't mind the "anti-Hero" aspect, almost any Servitor of Baal or Asmodeus could be done well for it, but it sounds like he wants to be as much a good guy as he can while still being a demon...for which I'd go with the Impudite under Baal.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:07:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) [Brian Logan] > > Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) > > Anyone want to comment on this combination. Well, okay, my first reaction was, "Why?" A Shedite might want the Malakim Attunement - being able to sense how honorable a person is to start with could be handy for them - but I'm not sure what use it would be to the average Calabim. > You get the Dissonance along with the Resonance, and part of the Malakim > Dissonace is that they must take an oath "not to suffer evil to live". Still, similar to the idea of taking on the Seraph aspect, I think this could be gotten around. A Balseraph of Kronos, as it was intended, shouldn't have any trouble with the Malakim Oath, since he'll just flip `good' and `evil' in his mind and be fine. (So many of the Angelic Dissonances are based on internal perceptions, Balseraph have a definite edge there..) But beyond that, I'm not sure that one taking it on through Kronos would necessarily have the -SAME- Oaths. Malakim all have them, but Malakim are all actually Malakim and all swear to them in Heaven, and they're just given those two before even being asked what else they want. A Calabim with the Resonance may be able to take a quite different set of `at least 4 Oaths'...though he'd get in just as much trouble for breaking them. {My personal feeling on the matter is that, frankly, Kronos is a Demon Prince. And a Balseraph, at that, as well as being noted as `the most powerful' of the Princes. I don't think a Demon Prince CAN give the Angelic Resonances quite straight. Close enough for government work, sure, but still subtly twisted. I will admit that I think this largely because without that subtle shading, several of them DO become unplayable, and then what's the point?) Oh, though while we're on the subject - if a Shedite of Kronos takes, you'll never guess, the Balseraph Attunement additionally, to get the Kyriotate Resonance..do they get access to the memories, per a Shedite, of the multiple hosts they can possess simultaneously, per a Kyriotate? [Personally, I'd say, "Sure...just remember that you have to corrupt them all, too." Which is an entertaining enough thought that I may have to go make this character real quick. I'm just picture the gradual descent of this poor sparrow...stealing a bit of bread from the ducks one day, targeting some guys new paint job in a `fly by' the next...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:04:47 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > > I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and > perhaps the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get > stupid, what would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that > much. Would they have a strength higher than 12? There are no stats. Deal with it. Strength is an irrelevant thing WRT an Archangel. If we needed to know how many Body hits Michael had, then we'd have been given them, I hope. Work it like this: PC strikes Archangel; Archangel: "...And?" {GM: "He is thoroughly unfazed by your strongest attack"} PC: "Uh oh!" Nothing more, ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:25:04 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:51:31 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: >> >Celestial B has two vessels, "Bob" and "Betty". Betty is in the bag. >> > Bob goes off. >> >Celestial A has one vessel, "Adam". He finds the bag and uses Song >> > of Possession to inhabit Betty. He then places Adam into >> > the bag. The clock starts ticking on the Song. >> >Bob gets fragged. Celestial B's soul is drawn back to his remaining >> > vessel, Betty, but is rebuffed and winds up in the Marches. >> >> Ok, so B doesn't go into trauma even though his last available vessel >> dies. ... > And even after all that, I'm still going to hedge >my bets. This kinda tricky stuff can really mess up a GM's >storyline, so they should pick the outcome they like best. >My favorites, in order, follow: >1) Trauma >2) No Trauma, but an uncomfortable time in the Marches Another option, since Betty is B's body is that B tries to wrest possession of Betty from A, which A may resist with a Will roll. If B fails to get control of Betty, then either of the above options could ensue. I think my preference is to add this to (1) above. > With option 1) above, Trauma would have already occured. >With option 2), there would be no Trauma since the Vessel's >owner was not in the vessel at that time. Yep. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:31:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions > > Donald Bixler had a few questions...(Okay, so I'm hardly from SJGames, but > > you can keep me busy, too...) > As if the various campaigns you're associated with wouldn't? Good point...but now I can at least send out a mailing to my players saying, "Hey, I WANTED to do your moves, but DONALD BIXLER insisted on keeping me busy. So, er, if you could all just take those pitchforks and track him down instead..?" > > > ignore hir own aura of peace? (I assume that they can't turn it off > > > temporarily...) > > I wouldn't think so...and, for that matter, I wouldn't assume > > that, either. The Archangels don't have to be so reasonable, after all, > One second. You wouldn't assume that the attunement is > constant? That seems out of context with the rest of your comment. Oh, hey, good point - I'd misread that as "can". *ahem* You see, it's these subtle but important differences, just like I was saying about the BalSeraph. Yeah. I was just..illustrating the point. That's the ticket. {Speaking of which - I was thinking earlier tonight that Jon Lovitz's old `pathological liar' character could be a Balseraph Remnant...still can't tell the truth, but doesn't have the Will to make it convincing. "Why, I'm...Marilyn Monroe. Yeah, that's it.."} > As far as combat goes, if a servant of Novalis _really_ needs > some ass-kicking done, that's when you ask the Cherub of Jordi with the Well, hey, if they really NEED it, they can do it themselves if they know how...they only get Dissonance for the -unNECESSARY- violence. Heh heh heh. ("You don't understand, Ma'am...Todd really NEEDED his face messed up. He kept repeating everything I said. All day.") > Here's a wierd thought. Could the Kyrio possess seeds? If so, > I can imagine some poor soldier of Hell with hayfever being chased by a > malignant cloud of pollen or dandelion seeds. That's a fun idea...though unfortunately I can't find any ability in there to make plants grow really fast, which would make it a lot MORE fun. (Of course, what if they Possess, say, a packet of sunflower seeds that a Djinn is munching on as he slouches after his current prey? Presumably a quick chew-and-swallow may well not do enough Hits of damage to `kill' them off. But, okay, now we're getting silly...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:57:57 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Charybdis GreyDragon wrote: > > " Reminds me of a poem I came across way back in high > school... > The Latest Decalogue, by Arthur Hugh Clough..." > > Thank you for posting this. My little "BurmaShave" parody was > only an extension of "The Latest Decalogue," which I had never > seen in full. The thread title inspired me to come up with one of my worst ever puns, I think. Which I had to inflic- um, _share_ with everyone. Perhaps someone cleverer than I could come up with the plot for a story called "Sex, Lies and Kyriotates" Sorry. I'll go away now ;p ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:01:45 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: IN> Uriel The outpouring of mail is appreciated, but I've found out where to find him. Now all I have to do is wait for 'Marches' to be released. Chuck, in his quest to make In Nomine more like Touched By An Angel.... - ------- zingaro@peak.org Can I have a gin & tonic and a mop? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:12:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> "My name is..." In the US, at least, your name is what you say it is, so long as you don't shift names to commit fraud. Since there's nothing in the IN book about "true names" or similar, I wouldn't trip up a seraph on something like "What's your name." "Ralph. Ralph Jones." (Ralph Robert Jones, in full. Roger Johns 300 years ago. Raguel in heaven. But "Ralph Jones" will do. It's *A* name of his.) Similarly, "What do you do?" or even "What are you?" expects an answer related to mundane job, in most circumstances, so I don't think a seraph is lying when it says, "Insurance adjuster" or whatever, so long as it really does work at that job as part of the role. As for "What do you do in your spare time?" a seraph could pursue any hobby it likes and refer to that -- "I do Australian aborigine cooking" (learned on location 7500 years ago, but never mind that). Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:26:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions > Good point...but now I can at least send out a mailing to my > players saying, "Hey, I WANTED to do your moves, but DONALD BIXLER > insisted on keeping me busy. So, er, if you could all just take those > pitchforks and track him down instead..?" *bow* Glad to be of assistance. > {Speaking of which - I was thinking earlier tonight that Jon Lovitz's old > `pathological liar' character could be a Balseraph Remnant...still can't > tell the truth, but doesn't have the Will to make it convincing. "Why, > I'm...Marilyn Monroe. Yeah, that's it.."} *twitch* > Well, hey, if they really NEED it, they can do it themselves if > they know how...they only get Dissonance for the -unNECESSARY- violence. > Heh heh heh. ("You don't understand, Ma'am...Todd really NEEDED his face > messed up. He kept repeating everything I said. All day.") Well, there's liekyl to be a good amount of difference between said angel's desire to do violence upon someone and their capabilities. servants of Professor Bobo, on the other hand, tend to be physically oriented. > That's a fun idea...though unfortunately I can't find > any ability in there to make plants grow really fast, which would make it > a lot MORE fun. Hey! The old "swallow a watermelon seed and it'll grow in your stomach routine. I like it!" > (Of course, what if they Possess, say, a packet of sunflower seeds that a > Djinn is munching on as he slouches after his current prey? Presumably a > quick chew-and-swallow may well not do enough Hits of damage to `kill' > them off. But, okay, now we're getting silly...) And sadistic. But let's face it, Kyrios of Novalis can be _nasty_. Think sentient poison ivy. Of course, if you could devise a "quickgrow" song or attunement, think of the fun you could have with certain fungi as well. Oops da Ogre, Novalis might be interesting yet. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:43:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Novalis, pro & con RogueLdr wrote: "I like Novalis just fine, but I can see some problems with her. She's just a little *too* nice, you know?" True, but consider this-- The war is between good and evil, and some aspects of good, like some aspects of evil, are just not overtly martial. I mean, sloth and despair are evil, but it's really hard to present a lot of hustle on behalf of either, for instance. Likewise, mercy and kindness have to "go to war" in somewhat more metaphorical ways than, say, truth or justice. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 09:03:11 -0500 From: David Davis Subject: IN> familiars This actually applies to animal forms in general. The animals as listed would cost more than a starting familiar has to spend, but the book says to buy an animal form as listed. How does this work? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps > the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what > would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have > a strength higher than 12? It is safe to assume that Princes and Archangels can more or less do whatever they want. Nobody short of another Prince or Archangel can fight them on even terms. If the PCs get into a fight with a Demon Prince, they lose. If they live, it will only be because the Prince has mercy (probably for some sort of nefarious scheme). If the PCs look like they are going to do something stupid, make the Prince's power clear to them. Tell them about all the angels the Demon Prince has squished in the past. Tell them about the aura of tremendous power that surrounds the Prince. If you have to, just come out and say "Look guys, if you take this guy on, he'll wipe the floor with you." Don't bother to write down stats for the Princes, because it will encourage the players to believe they can be defeated in ordinary combat. Demon Princes *can* be defeated, but it take *huge* amounts of effort, special quests, arcane weapons, lots of preparation, etc. In other words, the sort of thing that can only be accomplished by role-playing and not dice rolling. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:33:26 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain I saw another one today... A bumper sticker that said, "Never Drive Faster Than Your Angel" And the first thing I thought was, "I hope my angel is an Ofanite..." SeanMike - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 11:26 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Playing musical vessels. [johnk:] > I gave no roll for the vessel since it didn't currently have >an inhabitant. Another poster went the opposite route and let the >empty vessel get a roll as if it were 'occupied'. By my way of >thinking, when the owner returns their natural route of entry is >blocked, so they get bounced to the plane where displaced souls >go (i.e. the marches). If they have another vessel, though, they >can use that. I based this decision on the Song of Possession >text and the story at the beginning of the main rulebook. Mostly for story reasons, I think it's better if a spare vessel is treated as part of the character who owns it, and give them a chance to resist. Maybe it should be a Perception roll ("Hey, someone's messing with my spare body!"), followed by a Will roll if successful. This makes vessel-snatching a somewhat riskier occupation, and opens up the entertaining possibility of someone chasing themselves around town. (I think I'd let characters use the standard rules for attuned artifacts to tell where their other vessel is, if it's instantiated.) The only useful thing I can see that the other way (no roll) does is make people want to protect their body bags/spare vessels more carefully. I think this is rather less interesting. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:50:26 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps >the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what >would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have >a strength higher than 12? I don't know what the cannon ruling would be, but generally speaking the stats on a high ranking NPC like that should be "Whatever could easily whip the party's butts without really trying"... Whatever that level would be for your party. Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 11:47 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps >the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what >would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have >a strength higher than 12? I would say that any Superior at that level is going to be able to reduce the average celestial to a small grease spot and a bunch of fragmented Forces without even devoting much thought to it. I.e., treat their stats as essentially infinite compared to PCs, at least with respect to things involving brute force. On the other hand, it should be possible to Fast-Talk your boss occasionally (if he's not a Seraph), or otherwise weasel your way out of things. Otherwise most demons would be a small grease spot and etc. Superiors are essentially primal forces, and should be treated as such. No PC (other than a Malakim) should even *contemplate* using any sort of force on a Superior. If they try it, have the Superior casually whack them and tear away a couple Forces or something (if you're in a good mood, and the Superior isn't implacably hostile), or reduce them to a small grease spot etc. Most PCs should react to enemy Superiors by a) running away, b) summoning their Superior or c) trying to be incredibly clever and talk their way out. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:45:52 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles [Calabim] >[...] >>Ricardo could be lying if he had a low level role. If anyone asked directly >>if he were an angel he would be faced with a tough choice. Say yes, or suffer >>dissonance. [Archangel Beth] >"An angel? What, *litereally*? Isn't that a heretical question?" > >If you're a Seraph, learn how to obfusticate and just not answer the >question... Like the ever popular: "Oh come on... Do *you* REALLY think I'm an angel..." If they are like most people, they'll back off thinking they asked a silly question... If they are "in the know", you really aren't hurting much by reveling the Truth... Unless they are from the Other Side, of course... But still, it they know enough to ask intelligently, you're probably in it deep anyway... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:06:09 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions > > And sadistic. But let's face it, Kyrios of Novalis can be > _nasty_. Think sentient poison ivy. Of course, if you could devise a > "quickgrow" song or attunement, think of the fun you could have with > certain fungi as well. > > Oops da Ogre, Novalis might be interesting yet. hmmmm, a quickgrow song or attunement and athlete's foot fungus.... "excuse me, I have to halt combat know and scratch myself before I go insane from the itching...[uses corp. motion to rub his whole body along the side of a 50-story building for an hour] ... now we can get back to fighting..what are you looking at?" "you're ...turning from hellfire red to algae-green, and it's growing out of your shirt, encasing your neck!! aagghh! the horror!!" tom t., who works nights and hasn't been to bed yet and obviously needs to... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:11:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs and Bands On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Charybdis GreyDragon sent me the following Celestial Song of Tongues: > > [Charybdis GreyDragon] > >> Looking at Superiors, I found Eli, Janus, and Litheroy most appealing > >> angelically, and Vapula, and Nybbas most appealing demonically. > >> I was most turned off by Dominic and Novalis angelically and by Asomodeus > >> demonically. > > [Thomas Davidson ] > >You were most turned off by *Novalis*?! The universe's ultimate "Hippy > >Chick"? How could you not love an angel who actually knew whom Jimi > >Hendrix and Janis Joplin were? And is actually...well... nice? (with the > >*possible* exception of Yves and Eli). > > I know, I know... What really makes this especially surprising is > that *I* (in the Real Word) have been accused of being a hippie chick on > more than one occasion. I mean, I had a coach back in high school who used > to call me a "hippie, communistic, agitator, heathen, leftist, > rabble-rousing pagan"... and I proudly answered to it... > I wouldn't have as a teen. I was "too good" for that. I was seriously involved in religions that would have given Dom a run for his money. Now I've learned better... Perhaps that's why I've taken to this game so much. It resonates for me on a subconscious level. > But still, for some reason, she turns me off. Which is odd since I >really > like Eli... We're talking about gut feelings, not logical reaction... > To each their own, I suppose. > [Thomas Davidson ] > > I mean, Dominic I understand... he isn't exactly fun at parties > > Yeah, he just plain gives me the shivers... > > [Thomas Davidson ] > > (I know he won't be invited to any more of /mine/ after the mess he > made of the > > last one ;) ... and we won't even talk about what Michael did...). > > Now that sounds like a story in the making... Come on... >give... > Heh. Maybe someday. (I promise I'll come up with a doozie when I have the time;-) ). > [Thomas Davidson ] > > Show of hands of anyone who didn't look at Novalis's picture in the > Rulebook > > and say, "Cool! Janis Joplin!" > > Actually, my first thought was Mary from Peter, Paul, and > Mary (sorry, her last name escapes me at the moment-- and it's too early to > go digging for it; I haven't even finished my first cup of coffee yet...) > Jeez, I didn't even think of her... Actually, I was thinking of the films of interviews with Janis... I think it was shortly before "Pearl" came out (and thus shortly before her death). She looked a lot like Novalis (big, round glasses, long straight hair...) > [Thomas Davidson ] > >Sheesh. Young people these days... > > So, just how much of a methuselah are you, pops? :P > Not *much* of one. I'm 28, but I've been listening to "album rock" since I was 4 (I was an odd child), and have something of a "hippy" mentality. > > So, you favor Cherubs and Mercurians... Any particular Superiors? > > Well, I do sincerely like Novalis, as well as Eli. I think I would get along the best with them. I have a *serious* dislike of Dominic, particularly after what happened at that party (BTW, if you do see him, tell him he owes me for the deposit on that rug he ruined) and Laurence. On the infernal side, I would have to say that I like... I like... Heck, I don't really like *any* of them. I would say Lilith, but she's not really a Superior in the traditional sense of the word. And possibly Valefor. And Andrealphus. The rest of them repulse me. Thomas (Archangel of Rock) tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us "I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed A wound that will not heal A heart that cannot feel Hoping that the horror will recede Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be free." --Rush, "Red Sector A" (Lee/Lifeson/Peart) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:58:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, gibsonc@nku.edu sent me the following Celestial Song of Tongues: > I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps > the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what > would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have > a strength higher than 12? > Okay, now here I have to admit confusion. I thought that the reason that the stats for Archangels/Princes weren't given was that they don't really fit on the same scale as the Servitors. Their stats would just be too darned high. Remember the highest stat is 12, and this is for exceptional Celestials. In other words, Celestial Safety Tip #1: *Don't piss off an Archangel or a Prince*. :) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us "I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed A wound that will not heal A heart that cannot feel Hoping that the horror will recede Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be free." --Rush, "Red Sector A" (Lee/Lifeson/Peart) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:56:06 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Goals for Lilim (and seraphim in white latex) Goals for Lilim - --------------- the Lilim of Baal, who just wants the Malakim to press this button, guaranteed to take out at least one demon in the general explosion.. ... and the Lilim of Asmodeus, who just wants the angels to tell her all about the demons they've met.. ... and the Lilim of Beleth, who thinks that the Ofanite ought to go and watch this movie about car crashes... ...and the Lilim of Belial, who thinks Mercurians with matches are _so_ admirable, and if you'd just light this fire.. ...and the Lilim of Haagenti, who tells the Cherub it's part of his role to eat like a human, and another plateful or three won't hurt him... ...and the Lilim of Kobal (see KK, it's far better than any I could think of)... ... and the Lilim of Kronos, who points out to the Elohite that dark and light are both necessary, so he's really doing the _right_ thing in helping this mortal achieve their Fate... ... and the Lilim of Malphas, who agrees with the Malakite that one has to take action, one can't be continually put down by those snobby unpleasant mean self-righteous servants of Dominic and Novalis, and sometimes you just have to take unpleasant steps, and it's for everyone's good in the end... ... and the Lilim of Nybbas, who just wants the Seraph to look into this camera and give her his opinion of Satanism in the home, and, oh yes, you say you're an angel, don't you? ... and the Lilim of Saminga, who explains to the Cherub that euthanasia is for the best, really, it puts them out of their sufferings, I'm not asking you to _hurt_ anybody... ... and the Lilim of Valefor, who just wants you to turn off the alarm system *there* ... ... and the Lilim of Vapula, who wants the Ofanite to try out this _incredibly_ fast car, she's sure he'll love it once he gets to know it better... .. and the Lilim of Andrealphus, whose personal goal is to get a Seraph or two posing in white latex on the IOU stage in the middle of Graduation.. - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:08:06 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Arches&Princes >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps >the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what >would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have >a strength higher than 12? As stated in the book, Archangels, Demon Princes, and certain God and Lucifer are beyond statistics. They can do anything you, as GM, think they should be able to do. No rolls needed. Therefore, no stats needed. If your players have a problem with this, they shouldn't be playing In Nomine... -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 12:19 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Smif [johnk:] > That's very true... human mores about clothing and sexuality >are very much their own invention. Each choir (and each angel >probably) judges such things by their own, inhuman, standards. This actually brings up a semi-serious question -- do celestial forms have clothing? (Presumably this would have to be a celestial artifact, of sorts, if so.) When I first came up with the question, I noted that Smif's pictures of the choirs and bands seem to lack any visible clothing on the celestial forms. And it seems that clothing isn't particularly relevant to most celestials, anyway. This is contrary to customary depiction in art, but of course that's dependent on local mores, anyway. (Just ask any Cherub how accurate human depictions of angels are....) > The only choir that can easily be tripped up by vanity are >the Elohim. The Elohim just never get to have any fun.... (Well, they *can*, but they can't enjoy it. Sort of....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:22:46 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... [Damian O'Dea"] >The thread title inspired me to come up with one of my worst ever >puns, I think. Which I had to inflic- um, _share_ with everyone. > >Perhaps someone cleverer than I could come up with the plot for a >story called > > "Sex, Lies and Kyriotates" > >Sorry. I'll go away now ;p Ohhh... OUCH! A charming little tale about a Lilim, a a Balseraph and a Kryriotate? Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #214 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.