From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 18 00:28:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA17766 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:28:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA24806 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:38:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:38:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199706180038.TAA24806@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #215 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 215 In this digest: Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... IN> Rules vs. Story IN> Art Auction (Dan Smith fans take heed!) IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Seraphs and roles IN> The Demon of Honor Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Seraphs and roles re: IN>Arches&Princes Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! Re: IN> Seraphs and roles Re: IN> "My name is..." Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Shedim Plot Seed IN> Re: Rules vs Story Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Mixed Groups ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:58:01 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> How You Know You've Got In Nomine On The Brain > Ooh, I think we've had a blowout here. I think he needs to be >put in a rubber room until he stops trying to write up everyone as a >celestial or soldier. ;'} Oh, wait. That was me... >Oops da Ogre, o/~ I was born in a lighthouse; my mother was the sea. o/~ And talking about yourself in the 3rd person like that.... Hmmmm... If your NOT a Kryio, it's time to call the men in the white coats and have you fitted for one of those special coats with the extra long sleeves... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:55:06 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Lies, convenient and not-so-convenient... [Charybdis GreyDragon wrote:] > " Reminds me of a poem I came across way back in high school... > The Latest Decalogue, by Arthur Hugh Clough..." [Earl Wajenberg] >Thank you for posting this. My little "BurmaShave" parody was >only an extension of "The Latest Decalogue," which I had never >seen in full. No prob... Like I said, I found that poem back in high school, and copied it down then... The hardest part was decrypting my own handwriting, which has drifted quite a bit over the years, but is still as cryptic as demonic script... :) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:36:07 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Rules vs. Story >>>Fine. I have no problem with any of this. Tricky spots within the game should be able to be discussed. I just have this horrible image of the GM in the above situation being stuck for the canon answer and putting the session on hold while he posts a question to this list waiting for the answer to come back and then trying to reconvene the session. Ridiculous to the extreme, I know, but one of the challenges of being a GM is being able to come up with an answer on the spot when the players try something out of the ordinary.<<< In situations like that, I usually make a temporary ruling, then try to find out the canon. If I find out I made a mistake, I let the players know, "OK, I didn't know it at the time. From now on, it will work like this..." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:26:53 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Art Auction (Dan Smith fans take heed!) Since Dan's artwork seems to be the topic of choice right now, this seems a good time to mention that he's auctioning off some of his artwork... some that made it to the In Nomine book and selected other pieces. Point your browsers over to http://www.sjgames.com/dansmith/ Dan gets to keep the money, which is fair enough since the buyer gets to keep the artwork. For those of you who _really_ dislike Dan's art, this is your chance to castigate it in the privacy of your own living room! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:28:02 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Arches&Princes Message text written by in_nomine-digest >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have a strength higher than 12?< Entities of that power do not need statistics only descriptions. One of the major rules of roleplaying is that give it stats and someone whill killit. fail to and it can laugh at any thing. If the senior powers like lucifer could be killed by player character level types then they would surround them selves with sufficient guards to stop such, [Like Kings, Queens and Rooks in Heavy Gear.] Since they can manage just about any thing they want as far as dealing with the players is concerned stats will only slow you down. They can manage anything their choir can or any thing their servitors can or any thing else that fits their word and sounds neat. Not much help I'm afraid but being stupid in that sort of situation just gets you killed, either as they use you as a mop or after they leave without deigning to acknowledge your attack and the big guys minions off you for brownie points. Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:13:16 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles [Archangel Beth] >> If you're a Seraph, learn how to obfusticate and just not answer the >> question... [James Rand] >I think everyone is overlooking the potentional for entertaining >roleplaying in playing a Seraph who *doesn't* try to evade difficult >questions.... why not? No, not really... My servitor of Litheroy (who is admittedly not a Seraph, but who does have the same problem) is very open... He does *not* try and evade the Truth... He is quite blatant and open about it... To the point of getting himself in trouble... He has a level one Aura Discord (because he just can't seem to hide his nature, even at Divine command)... His biggest saving grace is that few people actually *believe* the Truth, when bluntly and openly stated... Oh, and as a slight aside, back to the last name thing, which several people have presented as a problem... I just thought of another Truthful way to get around it. To use the same scenario I used before: Police officer: "What's your name, sir?" Jeremiah (my Ofanim of Litheroy): "Jeremiah..." Police officer: "Jeremiah what?" Jeremiah: "Just Jeremiah..." Police officer: "Don't get smart with me, Jeremiah. What's your last name?" Jeremiah: "It's just Jeremiah... No last name. You know, like Cher or the artist formerly known as Prince..." Not that the officer would necessarily believe him... But he can answer the question Truthfully... which is all that matters, right Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "My angel-- his name is Freedom--."** ** --Emerson ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 09:15:30 PDT From: Christopher Paul Subject: IN> The Demon of Honor Here's one off my webpage: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/grads/paul/innomine/characters/honor.htm Sebastian, Demon of Honor Balseraph of Kronos "Honor is as much a burden as it is a boon. I will see yours drag you down." Forces: Corporeal -- 6: Strength 12, Agility 12 Ethereal -- 4: Intelligence 7, Precision 9 Celestial -- 5:Will 11, Perception 9 Skills and Songs: Skills: Acrobatics 3, Climbing 3, Artistry 1, Computer Operation 1, Detect Lies 1, Dodge 5, Driving 3, Emote 3, Escape 4, Fast-Talk 4, Fighting 6, Large Weapon 6, Move Silently 3, Ranged Weapon 5, Savoir-Faire 3, Singing 3, Small Weapon 4, Tactics 5, Knowledge (Chivalry) 5, Knowledge (Bushido) 5, Knowledge (Athenian Honor) 3, Knowledge (Philosophy: Honor) 4, Knowledge (History of Dueling) 3, Knowledge: (Malakim) 4, Language (Japanese) 3, Language (Chinese) 3, Language (Greek) 3, Language (French) 2. [Other skills or languages as appropriate] Songs: Ethereal Attraction 4, Celestial Attraction 5, Corporeal Charm 5, Corporeal Forms 6, Celestial Forms 5, Ethereal Harmony 6, Corporeal Healing 5, Celestial Light 5, Celestial Motion 5, Corporeal Shields 5, Ethereal Shields 5, Celestial Tongues 4, Numinous Corpus: Acid 6, Numinous Corpus: Horns, 5. [Any additional songs you require] Attunements and Distinctions: Balseraph Resonance, Balseraph Band Attunement of Kronos (Angelic Choir Mimic) Malakim Resonance, Fated Future servitor Attunement of Kronos, Temporal Projection Servitor Attunement of Kronos, Knight of the Winged Chariot, Captain of the Infernal Hourglass, Baron of the Book of Days (18th Century (Feudal Japanese period), 20th Century). Rites: Spend Six hours observing the passage of time, Prevent someone from achieving his destiny, help someone meet his fate, Kill an adversary (from Baal). Special Rite: See someone come to harm through adherence to their personal honor. Vessels and Servants: Sebastian has a wide variety of vessel and servants. Story: Balseraphs in the service of Kronos may choose to emulate the Attunement of a Choir of angels, in addition to their own selfish resonance. Sebastian is one of the very few of those Balseraphim who chose to take the resonance of the Malakim. While the nature of Balseraph and Malakite seem fundamentally contradictory, Sebastian has successfully negotiated the fine line of the contradiction for several centuries. Following his brilliant work in Japan during the Feudal era, he was granted his word, "Honor." Though he is a Balseraph, Sebastian rarely lies. In fact, he is a supremely honorable being. He holds everyone he meets to his own ridiculously high standards of moral obligation: it is his Balseraph nature that leads him to this perversion of honor, and his Balseraph resonance which aids him in bringing others to heights of honor that they themselves cannot possibly sustain. Sebastian believes that it is through Honor that the symphony will be purified. If all souls achieve perfect honor, then the symphony will be perfect, and distinctions between beings of all kinds will fall away. In moving toward this perfect conclusion, Sebastian is testing the honor of every soul in the symphony, to see if they can achieve and sustain perfect honor, one person at a time. So far, he has found no-one who is worthy beyond himself. Sebastian's ultimate goal is to try the Malakim. He earnestly hopes that some (or at least one) of them will be worthy. So far,any that he has engaged for long have proven unworthy, but have been destroyed by their brethren before they could fall. He imagines that, if he could get a Malakite to fall, that under his tutelage, he might be able to instill adherence to the same standards of honor that he himself maintains. Malakim Oaths: Sebastian's personal code of honor includes the following oaths: 1. Honor before ALL else. 2. Keep your word. 3. Respect the conditions of a duel. 4. Never let another forget the conditions of their oaths. 5. Unquestionably support the sacrificial honor of another. 6. Never kill an opponent unless your honor demands it. If his honor demands it, then he must "do the honorable thing" himself. 7. The challenge of one who is unworthy need not be answered personally. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:38:57 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes the question though is how much damage can one do. There may come a time when a superior attacks another and servitors are called in to help. I expect there forces to be atleast doubled. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Setty Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles > > At 12:56 AM -0400 6/15/97, Calabim@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 97-06-14 20:35:33 EDT, archangel@io.com: > > > >> One of my players, not the seraph himself, but another think Seraphs can > >> take roles. I ruled that seraphs resonate for truth. Everyone seems > > Oh, sure they could -- a "nickname" is a kind of truth. There are *many* Hola, my first mail to this list... It seems to me that facts about a role aren't necessarily false. If a Seraph has a role named John Smith, then while John Smith only exists as a sort of 'character', the Seraph is the person who 'plays' that character, thus "I am John Smith" wouldn't be a lie. On the other hand, "My name is John Smith" might be, but even in that case it might be said that a Role's name is a name that the Seraph uses, and as long as he didn't claim it's his 'real name' or 'true name', it still wouldn't be a lie. (Like, "My car is in the parking lot" wouldn't be a lie even if the speaker owned a second car that was in his garage at home.) Everyone see what I'm getting at? > > If you're a Seraph, learn how to obfusticate and just not answer the > question... > It's not all that hard really... - -- Dave Setty garpoz@ares.madhaus.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 12:54:00 PDT From: Christopher Paul Subject: re: IN>Arches&Princes >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps >the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what >would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have >a strength higher than 12? I agree with the general outlines of all of the replies given: Superiors are superior; they need no attribute numbers, and they cannot be defeated. I would like to pose for consideration, however, an alternative to their proposed capacity to turn the average celestial into a "grease spot." I like the idea that superiors are composed of the same sort of stuff as "ordinary" celestials (i.e. forces) only more of them. They are more forces, and know great and wonderful songs, including songs for the manipulation of forces. However, I would imagine the are bound by the same symphonic physics, and the same corporeal physics as everyone else. If an ordinary celestial were to be attacked by a superior in celestial form, I expect that would be the end, and right quick. However, a superior in a Vessel against an ordinary celestial Vessel might be an entirely different matter. Vessels are limited. There's only so much coolness you can tuck into a human sized hunk of meat. I would imagine that the corporeal vessels of certain of the non-combat, "feeble" superiors could be whupped if jumped by enough tough angry celestials. Of course, other than the embarrassment, I don't think the superior would be set back in any serious way. I also think they would have to allow it, instead of teleporting away or transporting in hordes of their minions to their defense. Some superior's corporeal vessels probably are undefeatable, but that doesn't mean you can't try. It makes for some great dramatic encounters. Here's an example from the campaign I've been playing in. I play Vilianous Mynor, Ofanim, Friend of the Fighters. (see http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/grads/paul/innomine/characters/mynor.htm). I've had the misfortune of encountering two diabolical superiors during the course of our campaign. The first was Saminga; I fought for about two rounds before invoking Michael, in the presence of whom he swiftly retreated. During those two rounds I didn't even scratch him, and took most of my hits from a single punch (The other round he punched someone else). I'm sure with his word, he could have killed my vessel without even thinking too hard. The next enemy superior I encountered was Baal. Now, this presented a real dilemma. I knew that we couldn't defeat him (this is Baal, after all), and I knew that I couldn't retreat (I work for Michael, and I was the ranking Angel). I also knew that I didn't really want to invoke Michael, as, while I have great confidence in my superior, if there is any superior to superior fight that is at all contingent, it would be that one. I didn't want to be the one responsible for starting the war between War and War, if you know what I mean. So, I attacked Baal while the rest of the party accomplished our mission and withdrew. I very much like the way my GM handled the situation. He didn't roll dice. He just told me what I'd need to dodge (we use an all or nothing dodge system), and described how ineffective my blows were. One of the other characters, a servitor of Gabriel, tried to give Baal a wedgie. He struck her for about twice her total hits in a single blow. (Don't even TRY to give wedgies to Demon Princes). I managed to, through really hot rolling and all of my essence, keep from getting hit more than once. (I couldn't have survived a second blow). I rolled 111, and managed to draw blood. After everyone else had gotten away, I figured I'd ask to retreat. I prayed for permission to retreat, subsequently heard the holy trumpet sound retreat, and got the hell out of there. I never had any delusions about beating (or even hurting) Baal. The character as I was playing him was required to try none-the-less. It was dramatic, it was cool, and I was really surprised to survive. Now, unfortunately, there are many, many Baalites looking for me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:54:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions > Well, there's liekyl to be a good amount of difference between > said angel's desire to do violence upon someone and their capabilities. Aww...combat monsters of Novalis are great fun, as I've commented before. Though, granted, I'd stick more with combat monsters who kind of act like they're of Novalis without really saying it. ("Hey! Servitors of Novalis can't hit first!" "Fancy that. If I see one, {whap}, I'll ask about that.") > > any ability in there to make plants grow really fast, which would make it > Hey! The old "swallow a watermelon seed and it'll grow in your > stomach routine. I like it!" I think I'd offer it more as an alternative Servitor Attunement from Novalis than try to come up with a generalized Song...(probably something like "Happy Maturing of the Vines" or somesuch. Novalis goes for those sappy names. I mean, "Crown of Joy" just doesn't strike the same kind of fear as "Howl", somehow..) > And sadistic. But let's face it, Kyrios of Novalis can be > _nasty_. Think sentient poison ivy. Of course, if you could devise a Ooh, brain itch. Last time I follow YOUR instructions. 'Course, if they get TOO nasty, Novalis is likely to tap them on the shoulders and have a Word with them...(It's when they get to the point that she gives them that special Attunement such that any time they try to speak violence, a flower comes out of their mouth instead.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:10:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes > PC strikes Archangel; > Archangel: "...And?" Hehe...Archangel looks thoughtful, and then nods. "Yes, I suppose that just might be effective against those I'm sending you against. Good luck." (If not, "Um...let me see here, if you were actually intending that to hurt ME, presumably you let loose with the best you had. Oh, dear, you're all going to die if that's your best. Here, you'd better take this.." If the GM's in a really good mood, or if they roll a 111 on their attack...heh) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:35:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes At 3:54 PM -0400 6/16/97, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps >the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what >would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have >a strength higher than 12? They have effectively infinite abilities, save when striving amongst themselves. If the PCs tick them off, the PCs are going to get slapped with Discord, dissonance, and the common cold. And that's only if you're feeling merciful about letting the character survive. Superiors can do pretty much whatever they want to, limited only by the GM's fairness and willingness not to act like a tyrant. If PCs persist in being stupid, the GM can be a real softy, and pause to explain out of game that "Look, guys, this is a *Superior*. He *creates* angels/demons, and can uncreate them and recycle the Forces any time he wants to. He has more Forces than your characters can imagine. Saying things about his mother is akin to walking up to a tornado and telling it to obey traffic signs. Are you *sure* you want to tick him off? Okay, fine, start working on your next character." At 11:47 AM -0400 6/17/97, Walter Milliken wrote: [...] >Most PCs should react to enemy Superiors by a) running away, b) >summoning their Superior or c) trying to be incredibly clever and talk >their way out. Hint with dealing with Princes -- enemy or other -- I suspect that groveling until told otherwise is A Good Idea. Saying "Yes, Dread Prince," and "Yes, Dark Lord," and "Whatever you desire, Prince Andrealphus," and other varients is a good idea. (And if he says "Call me Andre," a smart Servitor says, "Yes, Lord Andre.") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:45:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes Walter Milliken wisely commented; > I would say that any Superior at that level is going to be able to > reduce the average celestial to a small grease spot and a bunch of Or, if you're running the Paranoia crossover, a pair of smoking boots. ("Thank you for your cooperation, Angel Jerem-I-AHH-5. Please terminate yourself at your earliest convenience, which would be now.") > On the other hand, it should be possible to Fast-Talk your boss > occasionally (if he's not a Seraph), or otherwise weasel your way out of > things. Otherwise most demons would be a small grease spot and etc. One important note on that, however, is the comment emphasized several times throughout the Book (no, not THAT Book..the rulebook. Geeze.) The PCs are favored servants granted the much-coveted earthbound duty. These are Celestials who are presumed to have distinguished themselves in some way as either particularly effective or particularly trustworthy. (And given some of the PCs I've seen running around, this suggests that the rest of Heaven and Hell are populated largely by the Keystone Kops...but..) Point being, you don't WASTE people like that. Chastise them, sure, but even a rival Demon Prince should be somewhat hesitant to just destroy one due to the repercussions their Superior is likely to bring to bear.. [Depending, of course, on the Prince. Asmodeus probably has a bit more free reign on this, for example, and Haagenti can get away with it almost specifically because so many of the other Princes DON'T respect him...(as in, "Aw, it's just Haagenti...he's too dumb to know better.") On the other hand, someone like Kobal or Malpheas should never kill someone who's annoyed them...with those two, you probably don't even get to find out you annoyed them. It's just that the next time you get a 666 when you've just lined your target up for a perfect sniper shot, even as you rejoice that the demonic intervention is invariably helpful, it turns out to be Kobal and you slip on a banana peel, miss the shot, and plummet a hundred and eighty stories to your Trauma...] {Yes, I know there's no particular backing for it in the rules, but if a Superior is really annoyed with you, I could see twisting the Interventions that way. Just one more reason not to annoy Superiors if you can avoid it. 'Course, if a Demon somehow manages to get an Archangel's favor, I'd consider the inverse as well...} > them and tear away a couple Forces or something (if you're in a good > mood, and the Superior isn't implacably hostile), or reduce them to a Taking away a Force or two is my personal favorite idea for a truly annoyed Prince/Archangel...it's crippling enough to make any player think twice about doing it again, but leaves them in play and they can recover from it, given time. (If they really prove themselves, most Archangels and some Princes might even give them back...) Othewise, things like Gabriel taking away Nicole's itty bitty gun. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:51:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > In the other poster's example, Celestial B would find himself > in Celestial A's body, Adam. This is what I was objecting to. Well, I have to say, I still prefer it. By the descriptions of Body Bags, the connection seems to be as much with the Bag as the Vessel...I think if Adam puts his body in the bag, Bob can take it. The MAIN reason I like it better is just that it's more interesting, and I'm inclined to take "this'll be a fun twist" over "oh, well, guess you're out of play for the next month, Bob," any day. On the other hand, if Adam thinks things through for half a second, he has no particular reason to PUT his body in the Bag. There's no particular problem with letting your Vessel just go on `hold' in the Symphony, after all. Though, with Adam supporting his other Vessel and Bob still having the connection to it as his Vessel, I'd still just bounce him to the Marches rather than slam-dunking him with Trauma. I'm also inclined towards the suggestion that if Bob's paying any attention, he has a chance to notice when someone's mucking about with his Vessel, wherever it is. It'd be Perception based, which Demons aren't as known for as Angels, but it'd give him that chance to just let his current Vessel fade out and snap on over in time to resist...if he does it right away. {If they're just mucking about with the BAG, he doesn't find out until he goes home and it's not there, though, as someone noted, it's an Artifact like any other so he's got his chance to track it down.} ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:36:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles > Ricardo could be lying if he had a low level role. If anyone asked directly > if he were an angel he would be faced with a tough choice. Say yes, or suffer > dissonance. > then it's real, so you don't get moved around much. A player with a level two > role can shut down and relocate much more easily. Of course, you aren't > assumed to have many contacts or friends... Huzzah! I think people are forgetting a lot of the corollary benefits to a good Role. There has to be a good reason why a Status/6 Level/6 Role is going to cost half your character points, after all, and I think some of it's because you don't get a lot of the benefits if it's only Level/1. (For example, a Millionaire/1 gets a nice gold-colored credit card that he can flash around, but if someone runs it through a machine, chances are it'll respond back that the company has never heard of this person. A Millionaire/6 doesn't have to worry about that so much.) Kind of like they said...if you're a Cop/6, you have a mug at the station, other police recognize you, etc...even if, to you, you just stepped down from Heaven yesterday. Not only that, but you know where your mug is, can recognize the other police, and `remember' what your beat is... In addition to the physical resources, personally I'm inclined to include skills with the role..(Kind of under their comment that you get "How to be ____", but I include the actual skill package. This, I must admit, is largely influenced by my Amber experience - I just tend to hold that skills are cheap and shouldn't be overly restricted.) My current ruling on that is to add the Status and Level and divide by two for the skill levels, rounding down. (Eg. an Acclaimed Neurosurgeon/1 will get Brain Surgery/3, which probably isn't going to be enough to really support their Status if they ever have to actually perform Neurosurgery, unless they've got a good enough Precision to back it up. An Acclaimed Neurosurgeon/6 has Brain Surgery/6, which means they can really seriously do it. A Hobo/1 doesn't get any particular skills with it - just tatty clothing. A Hobo/6 gets Scrounging/3.) On the related note, I'm thinking of using the Level *2 as their target number for rolls to see if they have things that could be related, but aren't absolutely integral to the Role. For instance, anyone with a Policeman Role gets a uniform. On the other hand, while an apartment or birth certificate is certainly something most policemen have, and you might need it if anyone's investigating, it's not integral enough to just `get'. So let 'em roll for it. A Policeman/1 has a very slim chance of getting it, needing to roll a 2. A Policeman/6 only has to roll to check for Intervention. The Status in these cases will influence what you even get TO roll for...(ie. if they've taken it as a Status/2 Policeman/6, then they'll fairly automatically have anything a really down-on-his-luck flatfoot might get, which includes things like a pretty rundown apartment, a beat up car that guzzles gas, etc. One who's taken it at Status/5 is presumably a Captain or somesuch and gets a nice house and a corvette he wrangled from Vice a couple years ago..) Intervention should almost always be worth checking for on these, since Roles are Celestial interventions in the Symphony to start with... Oh, yeah, one last important reason to pick them up at high Levels...I believe those ones can cover for you. For example, again, say our friendly Policeman gets ambushed and killed. He comes out of Trauma a month later. Now, he wasn't expecting this and certainly didn't make any plans for it..but when he gets back and steps into his old Role, he finds (`remembers', actually) that he properly gave notice that his mother was very sick and he's been on Family Leave. The paperwork will be there, his Captain will remember it, etc. Personally, I think all this makes Roles a lot more important and worth actually putting the points out for, and not just taking up the costumes at a local Uniform shop. (Yes, it does give someone the option of taking "Hit Man/6" as a Role instead of buying Stealth and Firearms as separate Skills. He'll also get free black clothing and a sniper rifle. BUT, he only actually gets these while acting within his Role, as the Symphony `supports' him with this particular `tune' playing through him as he embodies it. As soon as he switches over to Call Girl/2, all he's got is some minor etiquette and seduction skills...and, of course, if he has to act actually as himself, he's pretty much out of luck. Whereas if he'd bought Firearms separately, he'd know it as a Hit Man, Call Girl, Angel, Parrot...whatever.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:22:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> "My name is..." At 9:12 AM -0500 6/17/97, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >In the US, at least, your name is what you say it is, so long as >you don't shift names to commit fraud. Since there's nothing >in the IN book about "true names" or similar, p. 134, Seraphim of Destiny. Only mention in entire book that I can recollect, though. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:18:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Kingsley Lintz writes: [...] > Oh, though while we're on the subject - if a Shedite of Kronos >takes, you'll never guess, the Balseraph Attunement additionally, to get >the Kyriotate Resonance..do they get access to the memories, per a >Shedite, of the multiple hosts they can possess simultaneously, per a >Kyriotate? That's sick.... I like you. >[Personally, I'd say, "Sure...just remember that you have to corrupt them >all, too." That's even more obnoxious. I *like* it... >Which is an entertaining enough thought that I may have to go >make this character real quick. I'm just picture the gradual descent of >this poor sparrow...stealing a bit of bread from the ducks one day, >targeting some guys new paint job in a `fly by' the next...) Beautiful, beautiful... I'd warn the Shedite to be careful about getting any Divine Interventions, though -- re-experiencing multiplicity, you see, might "jar" it back to its more angelic personality, causing it to go Renegade... And going Renegade from Fate (most powerful of Princes, remember? *and* he's tight with Azzie) is usually low-survival. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:23:56 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Plot Seed >>SNIPPAGE >>> Charmed Life >>> ============ >Well, something like that. Though if that happens *too* many times, >the beloved mortal might start getting a little "down." ("I don't >*start* by dating twits! But they just all seem to go nuts after >I meet them. *sniffle*") > Thus, driving her to her Fate.... Kronos would love this. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:31:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: Rules vs Story At 11:39 AM +0930 6/17/97, Damian O'Dea wrote: >Fine. I have no problem with any of this. Tricky spots within the >game should be able to be discussed. I just have this horrible >image of the GM in the above situation being stuck for the canon >answer and putting the session on hold while he posts a question >to this list [...] That *is* a horrible image. No, no, I wouldn't expect that -- when given a puzzle that hasn't been solved yet, don't wait for someone else to solve it. Asking "after the fact" is much better. (But it *will* help establish what happens for those who follow in your footsteps!) >More importantly, I feel, "canon" should be used to shape the >universe of In Nomine. It does -- the authors generally read at least the digests, right? If something is a really in-obvious rules-decision, then it has a chance of showing up later in print, I suspect. >Who is the Archangel of Whatever? What >is happening out in the Marches. If I do X with my game, is the >next supplement going to contradict me? Retrofitting an adventure >into a new view of the universe is a pretty cumbersome effort in >an ongoing campaign. This is, to me, more important than what >happens according to the rules when someone's spare vessel is mis- >appropriated... When you see an adventure that hinges on whether someone can steal a spare vessel... O;> Seriously, there are some cool ideas that will be successful only if the GM and the PCs both know roughly what to expect -- if the GM thinks that a spare vessel can be walked off with easily, and the PCs think that it can't be taken over at all (extreme example), then they'll waste a lot of time looking for clues that the GM doesn't have the faintest idea why they're seeking 'em out. Frustrating game for all concerned. I'm one of the people who likes having at least a quasi-canon thing to think about when designing an adventure. Then I don't have to work out all the "is this logical? is this fun?" problems *and* figure out the initial &*^%$&^% plot... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:55:10 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes At 03:54 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote: > >I have a Q. My players are gonna be dealing with some Princes and perhaps >the Bringer of Light himself. On the off chance they get stupid, what >would stats be for a Prince, or Archangel for that much. Would they have >a strength higher than 12? > As other people have pointed out, who needs stats. Just decide how amused/annoyed the Arch/Prince is and decide what response would be dramaticly appropriate. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:12:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mixed Groups At 4:07 PM -0400 6/16/97, Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: >Well, the character generation for the campaign I'm starting up is coming >along well. [...] >On the other hand, we have three angels - one Ofanim of Janus, one Malakim >of (unknown) (I'm trying to convince him to be a Malakite of Eli) and one >Kyriotate of (unknown) (however, I'd much rather she be another choir, >'cause I'm not sure if I'm ready to deal with a Kyrio yet). I'd like her >to be a servitor of Yves, to facilitate the game a little more - or maybe >the ArchDean. > >*QUESTION* - Can a non-Lilim be a servitor of the ArchDean? YES! Definitely. That's what the Choir Attunements in the conversion page are for! Like any other Archangel, she's got a few of everything. A number of them are ones she didn't create, but hey, she's young yet. (There are also demons around, Geased into service...) Kyrios do require an ability to "think on one's feet" a lot, and a willingness for the GM and the player to be flexible -- if you get into rules-arguements with that player, then it's a worse idea. Point out that Kyrios of Knowledge (if I can remember my own conversion well enough) have it easiest of the Kyrios except maybe Destiny -- they can communicate with the host a little, which can really help them rationalize taking over humans when they need to. [...] >Infernal tethers I'm having a harder time deciding where to put. I think >one should be in Gilmer Hall, home of the Bio department here - it's >consistently derided as the ugliest building on Grounds, but I doubt the >ArchDean would allow that. Oh, why not? Mind you, there are probably all sorts of interesting defenses, to make sure that the demonic influences don't disrupt the truce... [The Plots] >[...] A number of human Soldiers and Undead, however, stayed out of >UVA, attempting to take control of the situation and win favor with >their respective superiors while they (the superiors) rest up. Clever. Very clever. So are all the other notions I clipped. You're devious. I like you. [...] >7) The rest depends on exact superiors. Yves is proud of the ArchDean, but >is wary of her approach on his domain of knowledge (her word in my game). >He doesn't want her to erode his influence. [I'd quibble with some of that -- Yves gave away the sphere of technical knowledge to Jean; I thought it wouldn't be out of character for him to reserve The Future (i.e., Destiny) and Philosophy to himself while farming out the rest -- BUT IT'S YOUR GAME! You run it the way you want, and don't let *me* get in the way of a cool plot, *ever*. Got that? O;> ] >I'm also thinking of setting up an Angel of Virginia - her word is >Virginia, as in the Commonwealth. I haven't decided as a name, but I think >my players (as UVA students) would crucify me if I named her Jefferson, >though I might do it anyway. What about naming her "Virginia"? That's a perfectly good name... >She would travel primarily between Richmond >(capitol of Virginia), Charlottesville (a very historically important part >of Virginia), and Williamsburg (another historically important part). I >just don't know which choir to make her. Decide what you want to emphasize about her personality, I guess -- if worse comes to worse, make her Ofanite, for all the traveling... [...] Have fun! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #215 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.