From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 19 01:11:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16209 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:11:21 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA28890 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:53:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:53:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199706190253.VAA28890@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #217 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, June 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 217 In this digest: Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Mixed Groups Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! IN> Tethers Re: IN> Pagan gods... IN> Mighty Mice. IN> Adventure : Play Misty For Me Re: IN> A Couple of Questions re: IN>Arches&Princes Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Tethers Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy IN> Poetry corner Re: IN> Re: Choirs and Bands Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Mixed Groups Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> A Couple of Questions Re: IN>Arches&Princes Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Arches&Princes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:58:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Wilmoth Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes I beg pardon! To avoid confusion: The correct title of 'the Basic In Nomine Scenario Book' is, of course, 'The Basic In Nomine Book of Literary Events', the I N NOMINE  mythological sourcebook supplement- it should be widely available by now. I forget- whcich printing is this, guys? 'Daystar' is a cone of numerous possible translations of 'Lucifer'., and is used not uncommonly in fantasy sources rces with some Biblicareligious n as an element as his name, as is the 'full' version, Lucifer Daystar. 'Lucifer', beyond being a lovely word in nand of itself, has acquired so much linguistic baggage over the centuries it's incredibly wonderful to translate. I like, among others, Daystar, Morningstar, Dayfire, The Light, Prince of Light [obviously MUCH less literal a translation], First Star, Morningfire, Light of the Heavens, etc etc etc. - -using various combinations of the literal translations of the elements in 'luci fer',; titles associated with the Name Lucifer as opposed to the Word lucifer; and his association with the Morning Star, the first ('fallen') star iof the heavens. - -James, Think Bunnies ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:05:54 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> Mixed Groups Archangel Beth wrote: > >YES! Definitely. That's what the Choir Attunements in the conversion >page are for! Like any other Archangel, she's got a few of everything. >A number of them are ones she didn't create, but hey, she's young yet. >(There are also demons around, Geased into service...) > Oooo...that just gives me some even more evil ideas...maybe after the C-ville threads wrap up I can work the whole group into one happy family, all geased to the ArchDean...heh heh heh. >Kyrios do require an ability to "think on one's feet" a lot, and a >willingness for the GM and the player to be flexible -- if you >get into rules-arguements with that player, then it's a worse idea. I'm more worried for the player; she's still a pretty novice at RPGs, and I don't want her to get in over her head. Kyrios seem as complicated to play as they are to GM. >Point out that Kyrios of Knowledge (if I can remember my own >conversion well enough) have it easiest of the Kyrios except >maybe Destiny -- they can communicate with the host a little, >which can really help them rationalize taking over humans when >they need to. Yeah, Kyrios of Destiny would be good for the campaign, also. Isn't there one Archangel that lets Kyrios make their own vessels? David, I think. I'll have to dig my book out from under the tons of papers on my desk here at work. > > Oh, why not? Mind you, there are probably all sorts >of interesting defenses, to make sure that the demonic influences >don't disrupt the truce... > Heh...a chance to devise some interesting relics for keeping demonic influences out. Possibly some corporeal defenses, too, which could bring up some questions for the players. Having the two tethers close together, yet on opposite sides of UVA, would make it pretty interesting. How many tethers do you think a town of ~30,000-50,000 people would have? > >Clever. Very clever. So are all the other notions I clipped. You're >devious. I like you. > Gracias. The boon of being a frustrated writer.:):) > >[I'd quibble with some of that -- Yves gave away the sphere of technical >knowledge to Jean; I thought it wouldn't be out of character for him to >reserve The Future (i.e., Destiny) and Philosophy to himself while >farming out the rest -- BUT IT'S YOUR GAME! You run it the way you want, >and don't let *me* get in the way of a cool plot, *ever*. Got >that? O;> ] > I've been looking at how much of an enigma Yves is; he's obviously always up to something, and I doubt he gives away anything without ulterior motives. IMHO, he gave Technology to Jean because he doesn't want to devote the resources to dueling with Vapula; Kronos is so much more an interesting target. If he's such an archivist, why would he give up knowledge, especially to such a new archangel? Hmmm...it's gonna make the players wonder... > >What about naming her "Virginia"? That's a perfectly good name... > I never even considered it - thanks. Hmmm...I've got so many more ideas lately.:) > >Decide what you want to emphasize about her personality, I guess -- >if worse comes to worse, make her Ofanite, for all the traveling... > I've been busy trying to decide what aspect of Virginia to show through her the most. I can see Novalis, in the agricultural roots of Virginia. I can also see Michael, through all the Army and Naval bases in the state, Laurence, for honor and fighting (institutions such as VMI, UVA, and the southern honor that kept her from surrendering in the Civil War), and Marc, for trade. And what about the Civil War? Was it completely mundane or what role did Celestials have? Next thing I know I'm going to have an entire sourcebook just on Virginia.:):) SeanMike - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:59:52 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes At 04:38 PM 6/17/97 -0400, you wrote: >the question though is how much damage can one do. There may come a time >when a superior attacks another and servitors are called in to help. I >expect there forces to be atleast doubled. > > For one thing the superiors are of such significantly greater power levels that the PCs would have no impact on a physical battle. Think of a single ant attacking one knight who is fighting another knight and you get the idea. Granted the PCs might, if they're lucky or creative, distract the Superior but they aren't going to do significant amounts of damage and the least attack from the superior is going to kill a vessle or shed 1 to 6 Forces. The best way for an Archangel to use a PC group is to have them go retreive/destroy some significant evil artifact while he keeps the Prince busy. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:41:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > The trhead about the spare vessel in the body bag raised the following > question in my mind: What does a vessel look like on close examination? > There's nothing in the book, and obviously some vessels can pass for > perfectly human under all normal conditions, but on the other hand > vessels do not need to rest, sleep, eat, or drink (though they do > need to breathe for some reason -- probably game balance). So a > celestial vessel isn't really a human body. > > So what do people think would be the result if, say, stray humans > found the ever-popular body in the bag and turned it over to the > local coroner for an autopsy? or does it look alive enough to turn > over to the nearest emergency room as a coma case? Anyway, what > would contemporary medical science find, after a good close look > at a vessel? I am of the opinion that the coroner would simply find a brain-dead corpse. If it could somehow be put on life support, it could be kept alive (maybe), but no medical examination would indicate that it was anything other than human. There would, however, be no clear cause of death. Now I admit, the idea of having angelic bodies be different humans ones is somewhat appealing, but I think it raises too many problems. After all, why would Archangels do a half-assed job making angelic Vessels? Besides, I kind of like the idea that maybe human beings wouldn't need to eat or sleep either, if they knew the right tricks. Remember, when a Kyriotate or a Shedim takes a human host, that body becomes a Celestial Vessel in all ways, including not needing food or sleep. This is something John Karakash mentioned, and may be in the FAQ. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:22:37 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: "I'm thinking more like the angels from "The Prophesy" - they look like humans, but upon medical examination, such as an autopsy, they're obviously not." For those who haven't seen the movie, an autopsy on an angel reveals that, though "he" looks like a man, it has genitals of both sexes. After death, the eyes vanish, and there aren't even any traces of eyeball muscles or optic nerves. There are no growth rings in the bones, and the blood resembles that of a 5-month fetus. The bemused coroner felt he would undoubtedly find more discrepancies if he went on looking. I particularly liked the blood and bone anomalies. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 14:30 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy > Anyway, what >would contemporary medical science find, after a good close look >at a vessel? I've been assuming that typical human vessels could pass for human in a medical exam; that the Symphony itself (or a demon's own theme) sustain the body "miraculously" such that it doesn't need to eat or sleep. (Note that these effects also apply to hosts possessed by Kyrios and Shedim, so it's not a property of the vessel itself.) Note that a dead vessel doesn't normally hang around long enough for a coroner to look at -- it evaporates. I'd assume something similar would happen to a vessel taken out of a body bag for too long. But an unconscious celestial could always be taken to a hospital, so it makes sense that vessels should be able to pass a knowledgable examination. There might be a *few* anomalies, but probably nothing worth writing up a journal paper about. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:53:03 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes > As other people have pointed out, who needs stats. Just decide how > amused/annoyed the Arch/Prince is and decide what response would be > dramaticly appropriate. I agree, ther should be no chance that a low level character should be able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show how much above you they were. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:53:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Omigod! a NON- Kyrio question! > >second, he has no particular reason to PUT his body in the Bag. There's > >no particular problem with letting your Vessel just go on `hold' in the > >Symphony, after all. > Well, on p. 67, it does say "... another mortal body to go to *right then*, > he cheats death." (italics in original) You're mixing up Adam with Bob and Betty... There are advantages to HAVING a Body Bag, which is why Bob/Betty has one, but that's a distinct difference from there being a disadvantage to NOT having one, if you see what I mean. To the discussion at hand, Adam, the Angel stealing the demon's Vessel from the Bag, is accustomed to not having one, and may as well let his Adam Vessel just kind of float around rather than putting it in the Bag where, by my view at least, it probably won't do him any good anyway and might well work for Bob instead. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 15:02 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Tethers >Having the two tethers close together, yet on opposite sides of UVA, would >make it pretty interesting. How many tethers do you think a town of >~30,000-50,000 people would have? I would say, normally none. But if there is something there of great relevance to a major Word, then there could be a Tether there, anyway. I'm currently estimating Tether density at about 1 Tether per 100,000 people, on average, with a lot of other factors influencing them. This implies that the typical Superior currently has something on the order of 1000 Tethers, which seems like a lot until you realize how widely-separated they'd be on the Earth's surface, if spaced out equally, which they probably aren't. (The answer, for the mathematically-inclined, seems to be roughly 500 miles apart, if spaced equally over the surface of the Earth's sphere. If you stick just to land areas, it's more like 300 miles between Tethers with a uniform distribution.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:30:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Pagan gods... On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: > I just had this asked by by the assistant GM in charge of NPCs (Bubbles for > short)... > > What do you think if a pagan god, such as Athena, decided she'd had enough > of hiding out in the Marches and petitioned Heaven for "angel-hood" or > whatever. > > I personally think that's something that would take longer then the average > campaign to resolve; however, it's an interesting idea, and would put a > nice plot twist into my campaign. > > Any ideas? I think this sort of thing has *already* happened. As examples, take the Irish St. Bridget, once the Celtic goddess Brigid, and Cupid, once a Greek god but now a Cherub. I think these sorts of switches are harder to pull off in modern times than they were in the past, because many pagan gods are bitter about Uriel's rampage. Hell's gates are always open, though... Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:57:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Wilmoth Subject: IN> Mighty Mice. An exercise for the reader: If one's Vessel is a Mice with 6 Physical Forces (lLevitation optional), is your Superior: a) Jordi. b) James, Prince of Cute, Fuzzy Things. c) Michael. The exercise is to explain which Band and Tribe picks which answer and why, of course. - -James, Michael's MouseMice are Nice? Today on Oprah. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:57:08 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Adventure : Play Misty For Me This is one for all those times your players have complained about lack of attention from Superiors on either sides. It's also one for targetting on a particular player who tends to not get into the mainstream, either through character tendency or through shyness. Suitable for both Angels and Demons and others, with a bit of adjustment. It hinges on the fact that Asmodeus is a Djinn. Consider the recent discussion on this list. Asmodeus is as reluctantly prone to involuntary attachments as any of his Band, painful, humiliating, intense, and compulsive as they are. Now, assume an unwilling fixation on Asmodeus' part. Given that, by the rules on Djinns it should wear off in a week or so. But, for the meantime, some poor PC has the Prince of the Game fixated on _him_. Obsession, need, compulsion. It becomes so important to have this person in one's possession. It's not even necessarily lust in the Andrealphean sense, just the need for ownership. Mine. Mine and nobody else's, safe under my hand, in my keeping. How can poor Asmodeus get his hands on this person .. ah. Accuse them of heresy! They're an angel: no problem. Swear blind they're an undercover demon of his that needs bringing in. Then again, if he has agents nearby, (mis)inform them that the angel has some vital info or object, and have them brought to the nearest Infernal Tether. If the fixation actually gets taken down to Hell, unless we're playing demons, they're probably lost for good. Though if there are Renegades or Outcasts on the team, there might be potential for some kind of rescue. Suit to your players. In the case of Celestials, it'll probably be a running attempt to avoid the forces of Asmodeus across the country till the attunement wears off (and possibly the forces of Dominic and other superiors, if Asmodeus pulled the line about them being a demonic agent). Possible twists: a) Try and play decoy, while your Superior uses the distraction to pull something else off. What fun. b) Another Demon Prince gets wind of Asmodeus's latest fixation (probably a guarded secret, but these things get out) and realises that the PC is the perfect bargaining chip to get a concession off old Asmodeus. Cue a _second_ kidnapping team.. c) Would anybody really think that their sincere affection could Redeem Asmodeus? Probably not, but... Opinions welcome, as ever. Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:08:15 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions At 06:48 PM 6/17/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:27 AM -0400 6/16/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >>> [...]{Hehe..though it does bring up the question - do flowers (or >>> stone, for Kyrios of David) dream?} >> >[...] >> Flowers are _always_ dreaming... they are in >>bed all day! (Ow! Stop throwing things! Hey quit it!) ;) > >But are they *asleep* there? I mean, they *do* talk about >"bird and bees," and you know what bees do, right? (Oooo, kinky. >No wonder Jordi and Novalis like each other. Their Kyrios >are going around being disgusting right under the nose of >Judgment.) > And... ...Laurance.... --> -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:43:17 From: Jeff Miller Subject: re: IN>Arches&Princes > I never had any delusions about beating (or even hurting) Baal. >The character as I was playing him was required to try none-the-less. It >was dramatic, it was cool, and I was really surprised to survive. I like the way that was handled. >Now, >unfortunately, there are many, many Baalites looking for me. > But of course, word is going to spread that your character is a worthy opponent since he actually managed to draw blood on Baal. They'll be gunning for your character to capitalize on his reputation for drawing Baal's blood without the risk of angering Baal by attacking the Prince themselves. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:51:36 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes At 02:53 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: > >> As other people have pointed out, who needs stats. Just decide how >> amused/annoyed the Arch/Prince is and decide what response would be >> dramaticly appropriate. > >I agree, ther should be no chance that a low level character should be >able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's >proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show >how much above you they were. > But in AD&D, that led to power gamers who's characters had actually gods. I actually prefer the lack of stats though I think that a list of likely responses to certain conditions from each superior would be interesting. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:09:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy > The trhead about the spare vessel in the body bag raised the following > question in my mind: What does a vessel look like on close examination? On the whole, I think the question comes largely down to, "Is this a problem the GM wants to give the players?" I think the best-case scenario would still be suspiciously healthy. (You know; the 85-year-old-man Seraph of Yves who gets autopsied and, strangely enough, not only has all his own teeth, but has..well, nothing wrong with him.) They may also not have some of the little unnecessary bits, like the appendix, though they also may. Of course, if they haven't bought a pretty strong Role, there won't be any past medical records... Worst case, of course, you cut them open and a bunch of foam filler poofs out. Peanuts, maybe. (Popcorn is an even better idea, but probably only for Servitors of Kobal...) On the suggestion that they just vanish..that could cause some serious problems, too, if it happens often enough. (Like the Cherub Bodyguard being taken out by a sniper in preparation to go after his pet Cardinal...what are all those witnesses, not to mention the press, going to think when this bodyguard drops, right there on stage, and then disappears in a soft rainbow glow?) The Body Bags would be a problem in any case, if they fell into the wrong hands...there are some humans who would be VERY interested if they noticed that little stasis effect. Beyond having to deal with their own Superiors, I think any Celestial who lets a Bag out of their posession is going to run into problems with Jean and Vapula, too. (And when BOTH of them suddenly appear in your room, look at each other, and then turn their attention to you...) Having it get taken by The Other Side and all set about with traps could be preferable to letting humans get it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:12:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Tethers On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Walter Milliken wrote: > I'm currently estimating Tether density at about 1 Tether per 100,000 > people, on average, with a lot of other factors influencing them. This > implies that the typical Superior currently has something on the order > of 1000 Tethers, which seems like a lot until you realize how > widely-separated they'd be on the Earth's surface, if spaced out > equally, which they probably aren't. Eep! I tend to postulate one *angel* per 100,000 population. One *Tether* per 100,000 seems like *way* too many. I mean, that's means someplace like New York or London has somewhere in the neighborhood of two or three Tethers for *every* Superior. I tend to think each Superior has maybe a half a dozen or so Tethers, a couple hundred total world wide. Most cities have maybe one per side, only the largest and most important places have more. Of course, given the description of Austin as having six Tethers, probably the "canon" answer is somewhere between these two extremes. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:31:31 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy [Earl Wajenberg] >For those who haven't seen the movie, an autopsy on an angel reveals >that, though "he" looks like a man, it has genitals of both sexes. >After death, the eyes vanish, Actually, the eyes didn't just vanish... If you'll remember, in Uziel's case at least, (sp?)they were destroyed when Simon, the opposing angel, shoved his thumbs through the eye socket... [Earl Wajenberg] > and there aren't even any traces of eyeball muscles or optic nerves. This part kinda made me wonder in the movie... I wanted to know *why* none of the optical infrastructure was there... [Earl Wajenberg] > There are no growth rings in the bones, and the blood resembles that of a 5-month >fetus. The bemused coroner felt he would undoubtedly find more discrepancies if he went >on looking. I particularly liked the blood and bone anomalies. I liked that bit about the blood and bone anomalies too... Kinda drove home the point that the angels didn't stay around on Earth much... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "I have a simple rule. I hope you'll follow it too. Never eat anything smarter than you." ** ** from "The Moose Song" ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:08:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Poetry corner For those of you who wondered why Jordi's Cherubim have cats as their primary animal, this excerpt from the _Jubilate Agno_ of Christopher Smart (1722-71): "For I will consider my Cat Jeoffry. For he is the servant of the Living God, duly and daily serving him. For at the first glance on the glory of God in the East he worships in his way. For is this done by wreathing his body seven times around with elegant quickness. For then he leaps up to catch the musk, which is the blessing of God upon his prayer. [...] For when his day's work is done his business more properly begins. For he keeps the Lord's watch in the night against the adversary. For he counteracts the powers of darkness by his electrical skin and glaring eyes. For he counteracts the Devil, who is death, by brisking about the life. For in his morning orisons he loves the sun and the sun loves him. For he is of the tribe of Tiger. For the Cherub Cat is a term of the Angel Tiger." If you'd like me to post the complete "My Cat Jeoffry" segment to the list, or would like to post it yourself, feel free to ask or do. Austin George "Just a suggestion" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:45:01 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs and Bands [Thomas Davidson ] >> >You were most turned off by *Novalis*?! The universe's ultimate "Hippy >> >Chick"? How could you not love an angel who actually knew whom Jimi >> >Hendrix and Janis Joplin were? And is actually...well... nice? (with the >> >*possible* exception of Yves and Eli). [Charybdis GreyDragon] >> I know, I know... What really makes this especially surprising is >> that *I* (in the Real Word) have been accused of being a hippie chick on >> more than one occasion. I mean, I had a coach back in high school who used >> to call me a "hippie, communistic, agitator, heathen, leftist, >> rabble-rousing pagan"... and I proudly answered to it... [Thomas Davidson] >I wouldn't have as a teen. I was "too good" for that. I was seriously >involved in religions that would have given Dom a run for his money. Now >I've learned better... I was pretty "nice" too... Not yet really having learned how to get angry... But I was already a die-hard atheist by then-- even if I would only confess to agnosticism... [Thomas Davidson] >Perhaps that's why I've taken to this game so much. It resonates for me >on a subconscious level. I can't say why it appeals... It just seemed different enough from anything else I was doing, I guess... - --- >> [Thomas Davidson ] >> > (I know he won't be invited to any more of /mine/ after the mess he >> made of the last one ;) ... and we won't even talk about what Michael did...). [Charybdis GreyDragon] >> Now that sounds like a story in the making... Come on... >>give... [Thomas Davidson] >Heh. Maybe someday. (I promise I'll come up with a doozie when I have >the time;-) ). I'll hold you to that :) - --- > [Thomas Davidson ] >> > Show of hands of anyone who didn't look at Novalis's picture in the >> Rulebook and say, "Cool! Janis Joplin!" [Charybdis GreyDragon] >> Actually, my first thought was Mary from Peter, Paul, and >> Mary (sorry, her last name escapes me at the moment-- and it's too early to >> go digging for it; I haven't even finished my first cup of coffee yet...) [Thomas Davidson] >Jeez, I didn't even think of her... Cultural upbringing, I guess... My step-dad was a big Peter, Paul, and Mary fan, and he used to play a lot of their stuff on his guitar when I was little-- I used to get to help turn the pages... I was a really bonding kinda thing... [Thomas Davidson] >Actually, I was thinking of the films of interviews with Janis... I think >it was shortly before "Pearl" came out (and thus shortly before her >death). She looked a lot like Novalis (big, round glasses, long straight >hair...) Yeah, I can see your point... [Thomas Davidson ] >> >Sheesh. Young people these days... [Charybdis GreyDragon] >> So, just how much of a methuselah are you, pops? :P [Thomas Davidson] >Not *much* of one. I'm 28, but I've been listening to "album rock" since >I was 4 (I was an odd child), and have something of a "hippy" mentality. Eeeepp! I should learn to keep my mouth shut... You're younger than *I* am... :) [Thomas Davidson] >Well, I do sincerely like Novalis, as well as Eli. I think I would get >along the best with them. I have a *serious* dislike of Dominic, >particularly after what happened at that party (BTW, if you do see him, >tell him he owes me for the deposit on that rug he ruined) and Laurence. Heheheh... I'll keep that in mind. [Thomas Davidson] >On the infernal side, I would have to say that I like... I like... Heck, I >don't really like *any* of them. I would say Lilith, but she's not really >a Superior in the traditional sense of the word. And possibly Valefor. >And Andrealphus. The rest of them repulse me. I wouldn't go so far as to say they repulse me... I've just had a harder time coming up with interesting demonic character concepts...Go figure... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "I have a simple rule. I hope you'll follow it too. Never eat anything smarter than you." ** ** from "The Moose Song" ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:48:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes At 2:53 PM -0400 6/18/97, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: >> As other people have pointed out, who needs stats. Just decide how >> amused/annoyed the Arch/Prince is and decide what response would be >> dramaticly appropriate. > >I agree, ther should be no chance that a low level character should be >able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's >proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show >how much above you they were. Yeah, and look where *that* got them! PCs at umpti-ump level going and taking out Zeus for kicks. :-pbpbpbpbptt! Stats don't "clearly show how much above" the PCs they are, they say, "Look, if you can get these stats, you can thrash Superiors!" Vague is better, trust moi. The PCs ask: "How powerful are Superiors," and the GM says, with an evil smile, "*Very*." PCs say, "I hit Asmodeus with my Holy Sword. How much damage do I do?" and the GM says, "Not much. But you did make him annoyed, which is a feat for a Djinn." PCs say, "Uh-oh, I didn't make the dodge. How much damage do I take?" and the GM says, "Start rolling Will -- you're in Trauma." That is how you clearly show how much above PCs the Superiors are. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:58:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mixed Groups At 12:05 PM -0400 6/18/97, Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: >Archangel Beth wrote: >> >>YES! Definitely. That's what the Choir Attunements in the conversion >>page are for! Like any other Archangel, she's got a few of everything. >>A number of them are ones she didn't create, but hey, she's young yet. >>(There are also demons around, Geased into service...) > >Oooo...that just gives me some even more evil ideas...maybe after the >C-ville threads wrap up I can work the whole group into one happy family, >all geased to the ArchDean...heh heh heh. I do so like it when people get Really Bad Ideas from my stuff... >>Kyrios do require an ability to "think on one's feet" a lot, and a >>willingness for the GM and the player to be flexible -- if you >>get into rules-arguements with that player, then it's a worse idea. > >I'm more worried for the player; she's still a pretty novice at RPGs, and I >don't want her to get in over her head. Kyrios seem as complicated to play >as they are to GM. Ah, point. Hm. Just so long as you make sure she knows that Kyrios *are* the most complicated Choir, you'll probably be okay, though. If she's a novice, then she's more likely to go "Okay, can I do [x]?" where [x] is a logical extention of the abilities -- instead of being a scummy rules lawyer like me. O;> >Yeah, Kyrios of Destiny would be good for the campaign, also. Isn't there >one Archangel that lets Kyrios make their own vessels? David, I think. >I'll have to dig my book out from under the tons of papers on my desk here >at work. David, for stone vessels, and Laurence, for vessels of those who died "uselessly." >>Clever. Very clever. So are all the other notions I clipped. You're >>devious. I like you. > >Gracias. The boon of being a frustrated writer.:):) De nada. Hope the players learn to appreciate it... O;> >>[I'd quibble with some of that -- Yves gave away the sphere of technical >>knowledge to Jean; I thought it wouldn't be out of character for him to >>reserve The Future (i.e., Destiny) and Philosophy to himself while >>farming out the rest -- BUT IT'S YOUR GAME! You run it the way you want, >>and don't let *me* get in the way of a cool plot, *ever*. Got >>that? O;> ] > >I've been looking at how much of an enigma Yves is; he's obviously always >up to something, and I doubt he gives away anything without ulterior >motives. IMHO, he gave Technology to Jean because he doesn't want to >devote the resources to dueling with Vapula; Kronos is so much more an >interesting target. If he's such an archivist, why would he give up >knowledge, especially to such a new archangel? Hmmm...it's gonna make the >players wonder... Mysteries are always good things for players to be confronted with.... >>Decide what you want to emphasize about her personality, I guess -- >>if worse comes to worse, make her Ofanite, for all the traveling... > >I've been busy trying to decide what aspect of Virginia to show through her >the most. I can see Novalis, in the agricultural roots of Virginia. I can >also see Michael, through all the Army and Naval bases in the state, >Laurence, for honor and fighting (institutions such as VMI, UVA, and the >southern honor that kept her from surrendering in the Civil War), and Marc, >for trade. Sounds like a Kyrio... (%) <--Kyrio smiley #3. > And what about the Civil War? Was it completely mundane or >what role did Celestials have? Well, Malphas was probably *delighted* all through it! Whether Factions had that much to do with it or not, who knows? (The celestials who were there and maybe the GM, but details...) Probably want to keep the celesitial influence minimal, since humans are the point of the struggle, in a weird sort of way... >Next thing I know I'm going to have an entire sourcebook just on Virginia.:):) This is not necessarily a problem... Write it well enough, and who knows, maybe you can submit it? (:O:) <--Kyrio smiley #2. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:32:46 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes > I agree, ther should be no chance that a low level character should be > able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's > proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show > how much above you they were. Luckily for us, this /isn't/ AD&D. - ------- zingaro@peak.org My mother never breast fed. She said she liked me as a friend. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:31:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> A Couple of Questions > >No wonder Jordi and Novalis like each other. Their Kyrios > >are going around being disgusting right under the nose of > >Judgment.) > And... ...Laurance.... --> Mind, if they keep sniggering at him, I understand he's threatened to petition to have his title changed to "Laurence of the Weed Whacker". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:31:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN>Arches&Princes > >Now, > >unfortunately, there are many, many Baalites looking for me. > But of course, word is going to spread that your character is a worthy > opponent since he actually managed to draw blood on Baal. Good point...that'd probably actually be some protection; Baal wouldn't want one of his first worthy opponents to be taken out by a sniper shot in the back from 300 yards away, so at least the Malakim can expect honorable, one-on-one challenges. In most cases, at least. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:12:43 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy In reply to: > >For those who haven't seen the movie, an autopsy on an angel reveals > >that, though "he" looks like a man, it has genitals of both sexes. > >After death, the eyes vanish, > > Actually, the eyes didn't just vanish... If you'll remember, in Uziel's > case at least, (sp?)they were destroyed when Simon, the opposing angel, > shoved his thumbs through the eye socket... Actually, if you want to get picky, Uziel never bothered to make eyes. He just always wore his sunglasses, then when Simon 'killed' him on the glass, he plucked the sunglasses off and there were no eyes. Then he shoved his thumbs in the sockets. Both Simon's and Gabriel's eyes DID vanish when they died, though. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:30:59 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes > >> As other people have pointed out, who needs stats. Just decide how > >> amused/annoyed the Arch/Prince is and decide what response would be > >> dramaticly appropriate. > > > >I agree, ther should be no chance that a low level character should be > >able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's > >proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show > >how much above you they were. > > > But in AD&D, that led to power gamers who's characters had actually gods. > I actually prefer the lack of stats though I think that a list of likely > responses to certain conditions from each superior would be interesting. I agree back, that AD&D had problems with people wanting to become too powerful to make the game anything but hell on the dm, I'm sure that some prince is the prince of powergaming. I would like the idea of how AA's & DP's would react to threats and the like and in the future I hope to see an explaination of how powerful the game claims the superiors to be. But I feel it would be a good idea not to indulge the exact stats for them (I didn't want to know attributes) but instead to tell how many forces each has. This sets up the ranking order and what the servitors might be reaching for. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #217 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.