From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 19 19:49:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29890 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:49:24 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09170 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:57:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:57:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199706192057.PAA09170@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #218 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 19 1997 Volume 01 : Number 218 In this digest: IN> "The world is..." (darkside) IN> Archangels & Princes IN> IRC IN> Singular and Plural Re: IN> Poetry corner IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God Re: IN> Arches&Princes IN> Vessel Anatomy IN> Re: Vessel Anatomy IN> Novalis and Jordi's Cliffhanger IN> unredjester Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Rules vs. Story IN> Archangels & Princes RE: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Mighty Mice. Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> unredjester IN> Alternate combat systems Re: IN> Novalis is NICE? Re: IN> Arches&Princes Re: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God IN> Cycles Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Re: Vessel Anatomy Re: IN> Smif Re: IN> Smif New Discord: FlowerPower (Re: IN> A Couple of Questions) IN> Pagan gods... Re: IN> Re: Vessel Anatomy Malakim (Re: IN> Arches&Princes) Re: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God Re: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:13:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> "The world is..." (darkside) Some of the Archangels and Demon Princes we've seen on the list have "The world is..." quotes in their write-ups. Some don't. I'm here to fill them in for the ones that don't. Specifically, I've finished all the Demon Princes that need it (I feel Leviathan's works just as well for Xexistanai), so I'll start with them. Ralph: "The world is...oh, who cares." Rect: "The world is a pain in the @$$." [Sorry, I just had to say that.] Thrash: "The world is a big hotel with an infinite number of rooms just *waiting* for you to trash 'em up." [If that's too close to what Furfur's take on the world is going to be, I'm sorry.] Tiamanicus: "The world is a lie and a delusion." Yersinia: "The world is sick, and there is no cure." Austin George "What do you think, sirs?" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:37:07 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Archangels & Princes >>> the only documented fight between Superior beings was the Michael/ Lucifer battle, which occured so early the threat of Word Destruction may not have been the factor it was now.<<< Michael has at least sparred with Laurence before. Don't forget that Haagenti is responsible for destroying *multiple* Princes, including the former Prince of Sloth. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:37:08 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: IN> IRC I'd just like to point out this: I've created a registered channel on IRC for _In Nomine_. It's on esper.net; if you don't have any server names for it, try the following: dream.esper.net dragonfire.esper.net airship.esper.net weyr.esper.net The name of the channel is, of course, #in-nomine. I won't be on much, right now, but I'm going to get it up and running, with auto-ops for whomever is nice to me.:):) SeanMike - -- SeanMike Whipkey aka Highway Star - UVA - Mr. Jefferson's Resort GWAR slave - Paintball Player/Ref/President - VA Pep Band "Nothing is more offensive than simple honesty." - The Heretic [D]on't say pigfucker in front of Jesus." - The Spirit of Christmas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:49:59 -0400 From: "Shai S. Laric" Subject: IN> Singular and Plural In terms of plurals, "-im" is the Hebrew plural ending for groups that include at least one male entity and "-ot" the plural for groups that exclusively consist of female entities. The "-ite" singular and "-ites" plural are based on Greek. This was dealt with, sort of, in an earlier post to the list... In Nomine sometimes uses proper Hebrew plurals and sometimes doesn't; in general, rather than trying for accuracy, it's best to go with the list that Elizabeth McCoy sent at the end of the earlier thread on this topic; don't remember which digest, but it should be up on the website. Shai S. Laric slaric@io.com - -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:18:35 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: IN> Singular and Plural My Hebrew sucks. This up front, so nobody confuses me for a rabbi or a linguistic scholar. However. JHVH has been called Elohim on occasion, and the word was mentioned that often one used the plural form of a word to indicate just how much of that particular noun something was. So. Is it appropriate to say "That one Lilim" or "Those bunch of Malakites"? Zingaro, Cherub of Grammar in service under my old English Teacher, a Seraph. - - ------- zingaro@peak.org Hello, my name is Bob. Will you please knock me out? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:43:50 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Poetry corner Yes, Austin "quote" Loomis, I would like to see the poem about the Cherub Cut posted, either to the group or to me personally. Add in one more yes vote! tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:41:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Kabael Subject: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God I have two questions: First: has anyone used the card game Heresy: Kingdom Come developed by Last Unicorn Games, IIRC, as inspiration or a source of NPCs. Has anyone used it as an alternate setting, Last Unicorn was supposed to publish an RPG last I heard. Secondly, has anyone run an In Nomine game without the existance of God or definite good and evil distinctions, but leaning towards a more gray view. *The diabolicals are not really the celestials just say they are* kind of thing. How did it turn out. I think having an absent or silent God might add a whole new dimension of paranoia to In Nomine. thanx :~) >> K A B A E L << MEO N I K E A. D. I. D. A. S. R E E B O K just DO it all day I dream about sex this IS my world Why are we here? The fact that it is asked is the answer. _the weak anthropic principle_ kabael@tiac.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:37:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes > >able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's > >proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show > >how much above you they were. > Yeah, and look where *that* got them! PCs at umpti-ump level going > and taking out Zeus for kicks. :-pbpbpbpbptt! Stats don't "clearly I suppose, if a player is pressing this point, you could bring up the old AD&D examples. "Y'know how a lot of people got characters who were effectively Gods? Yeah? Uriel KICKED THEIR BUTTS!" > an evil smile, "*Very*." PCs say, "I hit Asmodeus with my Holy > Sword. How much damage do I do?" and the GM says, "Not much. But No...GM says, "Oooch, lots and lots. In fact, your Holy Sword is completely demolished - Laurence will NOT be happy. Oh, Asmodeus? He seems fine. He kind of raised an eyebrow curiously." Really, even if you wanted to run a campaign with the players running Archangels (which I think has several potentials), I'd still keep them pretty formless that way... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kabael Subject: IN> Vessel Anatomy <<< The trhead about the spare vessel in the body bag raised the following question in my mind: What does a vessel look like on close examination? There's nothing in the book, and obviously some vessels can pass for perfectly human under all normal conditions, but on the other hand vessels do not need to rest, sleep, eat, or drink (though they do need to breathe for some reason -- probably game balance). So a celestial vessel isn't really a human body. So what do people think would be the result if, say, stray humans found the ever-popular body in the bag and turned it over to the local coroner for an autopsy? or does it look alive enough to turn over to the nearest emergency room as a coma case? Anyway, what would contemporary medical science find, after a good close look at a vessel? Earl Wajenberg >>> I would treat it the same way as they did in the movie *The Prophecy*, where the vessels formed perfectly, like the body of a baby, the bone was elastic and strong and the tissue wasnt aged, as if the angel had just been born, which it had. The only thing is that some angels never formed eyes, but I cant remember why off-hand. Anyone else know. Upon examination, contemporary science would find a body of a being that appears to be, say 30, but as far as the tests confirm, this body was *born* less than a year ago, and stuck in a coma if unocupied. >> K A B A E L << MEO N I K E A. D. I. D. A. S. R E E B O K just DO it all day I dream about sex this IS my world Why are we here? The fact that it is asked is the answer. _the weak anthropic principle_ kabael@tiac.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:34:28 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Vessel Anatomy >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:53:25 -0500 >From: Earl Wajenberg >Subject: IN> Vessel Anatomy > [Impudites of Valefor stole the text away!] >So what do people think would be the result if, say, stray humans >found the ever-popular body in the bag and turned it over to the >local coroner for an autopsy? or does it look alive enough to turn >over to the nearest emergency room as a coma case? Anyway, what >would contemporary medical science find, after a good close look >at a vessel? > While this is by no means Canon (as if I'd be giving Canon answers anyway) I'd say, even with the closest looks contemporary medecine has to offer, A Vessel looks exactly like a Human body. Blood types, fingerprints, brainwaves, down to the very DNA. A very, very healthy human body, but a human body nonetheless. Well then why doesn't it need to Eat, Drink, or Sleep? Why can it keep going at extremely hot or extremely cold temperatures? Well, here's my opinon on that. The Vessel is a normal human body, grown as if cloned, and living off food created specially for it by shaving off a very small fraction of the Essence the Celestial recieves daily, and converting it to the nutrients each cell needs to remain alive. The cells metabolize these nutrients normally, hence the need to breathe to provide the necessary Oxygen. Likewise, it keeps the body comfortable at its 98.6 degrees. Sure, the immune system's very efficeint, and it heals at an incredible rate, but those can probalby be chalked up to minute Essence expenditure as well. Okay then, why do I think things work this way? Well, as has been mentioned earlier, it's important for both sides to keep the War secret. And it probably happens relatively often, more often than either side would admit, that a celestial winds up in a fight that goes badly and wakes up in the hospital. And it would be pretty uncomfortable to have to answer more questions than the standard ones. Not to metntion, bith sides have their own Science HGuys who make a point of knowing exactly what kind of technology humans have their hands on, and what they'll be able to notice. Besides, it's probably easier to construct along the lines of Humans, and teach the celestial to puppet itl that specifically design a parallel lifeform thatlooks himan on the outside. As for the brain, the neurons are firing in a pattern that looks noirmal for humans, as it's the brain that really is controlling the bod, directed by the celestial. Thought patterns are probably mimicked as well, to produce normal displays on MRIs and EEGs. Also this explanation helps determine why Kyriotate-possessed people don't need food or water either (I do remember that being mentioned somewhre, probably on the list.) The main problem I have is with those freaky Elohim who refuse to take sexed Vessels., I mean, get into a car accident and knocked unconscious there, and the hospital will know at leas that you're well...different. Heck, it's obcious in a locker room. I suppose they see some Logic in doing that sort of thing, bu I don't. As for Talking Animal Vessels...I'd hazard a guess that the actual tweaking of the voice box structure is minute enough trhat it would take a very close examination to distinguish it from a normal voice box, whith the difference made up byminute essence expenditure, supporting something akin to a restricted Corporeal Song of Tongues. >Earl Wajenberg = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Monty, Lilim Captain of Media, the Demon of Game Shows. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:43:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Meera Barry Subject: IN> Novalis and Jordi's Cliffhanger No credit is being given to the quoted for purposes of protection. > >No wonder Jordi and Novalis like each other. Their Kyrios > >are going around being disgusting right under the nose of > >Judgment.) [*ahem*. DISGUSTING? Well, I suppose, being angels, they simply can't leave it at being NAUGHTY. Nice, however...very nice, indeed.] > And... ...Laurance.... --> "As the Heavens Turn." Jordi shows Novalis exactly what it is young buck deer like to do with trees in the spring, while they are unknowingly observed by Laurence. Laurence in a fit of jealous pique makes threats that are misinterpreted by Michael, who in an amused cross passes them on to Dominic. Meanwhile, Gabriel and Yves make a coalition intent on distracting Jean from his rivalry with Jordi long enough to sneak a special servitor of Janus out of the Heavens and into the General Hospital Tether. Blandine intervenes on Marc's behalf for the young Lilim, only to find out that she's paying off a little thing Asmodeus wants her to do. Will David find out about Gabriel's plan? Will Gabriel's hot-to-trot rendezvous with Yves ruin her relationship with Michael? Will Novalis' secret seed sprout in fertile ground? Did I mention all of the Angelic Superiours Besides The Funny-Named Litheroy? Find out next week on "As The Heavens Turn." [Sorry. I know where I went wrong; the angel with the Word of Good Intentions seems to have Fallen.] \\ Mb \\ mabarry@xpert.net Trying for the important Word of . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:19:56 -0700 From: Seth Halbeisen Subject: IN> unredjester unredjester ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:10:53 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes Walter Milliken wrote: > No PC (other than a Malakim) should even *contemplate* using any > sort of force on a Superior. Enough with the Malakim-bashing already. This is not directed at only yourself Walter - there's a lot of people who seem to perceive them as gung-ho thoughtless head-crackers. Not So! The only choir likely to try and tackle a Superior is going to be the Ofanim, because they are Motion; action before thought, try anything once and to hell with how much noise I make! ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:19:49 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Rules vs. Story David Edelstein wrote: > > >>>Fine. I have no problem with any of this. Tricky spots within the > game should be able to be discussed. I just have this horrible > image of the GM in the above situation being stuck for the canon > answer and putting the session on hold while he posts a question > to this list waiting for the answer to come back and then trying > to reconvene the session. Ridiculous to the extreme, I know, but > one of the challenges of being a GM is being able to come up with > an answer on the spot when the players try something out of the > ordinary.<<< > > In situations like that, I usually make a temporary ruling, then > try to find out the canon. If I find out I made a mistake, I let > the players know, "OK, I didn't know it at the time. From now on, > it will work like this..." That's what I do, and what any GM should do. However, I wonder if a new GM would have thought of that so easily? There's a hundred little tricks you can use to make your life easier if you know how, but there's always the fallback of knowing every single rule in the book bass-ackwards and the whole gameworld from cover to cover. I prefer the easier (if trickier to come by) way... ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:23:09 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Archangels & Princes >>>I agree, ther should be no chance that a low level character should be able to take out a superior, but in things like AD&D, even the god's proxies and most of the archdemons had stats. something to clearly show how much above you they were. <<< Yeah, and the problem is, munchkin players then took this as an indication of the power levels to which they COULD aspire. Or argued with the GM when a deity did something he shouldn't have been able to do according to his book writeup. ("Hey, I've seen Thor's stats, and I say my Vorpal Sword should have decapitated him with that 20 I rolled!") You're much better off treating Superiors as plot devices in every respect. They needn't be treated as omnipotent- as some other posters have pointed out, the PCs are capable of harrassing them, even hurting them enough that they might consider retreating. But they should not be quantified like any other NPC. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:19:32 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: RE: IN> Vessel Anatomy Vessel anatomy? Here's a good one. Ok, as far as I'm concerned, vessels perform _in every way_ just like a normal human body. Well, without a lot of the drawbacks, like having to eat, excrete, breathe, etc. But, I think it's good for the purpose of storytelling to include bits like: "You pause a moment to calm your vessel's hormones, no need to think about sex while on the job." "Maybe it's your connection to Novalis, but upon seeing the child you find yourself supressing the desire to have a child." "As you confront the demon, fresh from hell you guess judging by his ignorance about current events, you feel the testosterone in your male vessel adding to your Malakim disgust for your fallen brethren. Perhaps a little Trauma will turn them back on the road to the light..." "Your Elohim nature easily overrides the emotional instincts your fellow angels are subject to. Judging by the actions of Jaxal [motioning to the player whose character is a Cherub] who's currently smacking a punk mundane for threating the object of his attunement, you've got it good." I would figure that angels and demons wouldn't be so much like us, they'd be much more omniscient, less emotional hang-ups and without the limits of the human mind. Of course, it makes sense that the game makes the celestials much more like us humans. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to play the game, right? I don't deal with the celestials who exist on the celestial plane for the most part, and I treat them as not having the limitations which the characters have, namely the limitations the players have, being only human. I treat the celestials who serve their existance in hell and heaven as being not as restricted by human emotions and limited thought; I treat those celestials assigned to earth as being restricted a lot by the limits of their vessels, as far as thought and emotion are concerned. Not only does that help explain lack of ability to figure out things, but also why they are as human as they are. Besides, it helps them blend in with mundane society. Of course, if your players and anything like mine, they tend to ignore the emotions of their characters most of the time, especially when it's restrictive. I know the trick is to illicit emotional response in the players, but that's hard to do sometimes. :) - -Perry Serpent at the gates of wisdom Curling round a tree With your eyes so dark and empty Looking straight through me ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - - "Serpent At The Gates Of Wisdom" Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:28:16 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy >> >For those who haven't seen the movie, an autopsy on an angel reveals >> >that, though "he" looks like a man, it has genitals of both sexes. >> >After death, the eyes vanish, [Charybdis GreyDragon] >> Actually, the eyes didn't just vanish... If you'll remember, in Uziel's >> case at least, (sp?)they were destroyed when Simon, the opposing angel, >> shoved his thumbs through the eye socket... [Leathal Weapon] >Actually, if you want to get picky, Uziel never bothered to make >eyes. He just always wore his sunglasses, then when Simon 'killed' >him on the glass, he plucked the sunglasses off and there were no >eyes. Then he shoved his thumbs in the sockets. Both Simon's and >Gabriel's eyes DID vanish when they died, though. Hmmmm... Come to think of it, you're right. I wonder what it is about the eyes that makes them so different from the rest of the vessel? Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "I have a simple rule. I hope you'll follow it too. Never eat anything smarter than you." ** ** from "The Moose Song" ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:20:56 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Mighty Mice. "If one's Vessel is a Mice with 6 Physical Forces (Levitation optional), is your Superior:" "a) Jordi." Probably one of his few ground-bound Ofanim... "b) James, Prince of Cute, Fuzzy Things." "Hello, Vap? Got this idea for you...I call it a Tamagotchi..." "c) Michael." M-I-C...see you in heaven...H-AE-L...hell is his battle ground...M-O-U-S-E... yours, Nybbasketeer, Jason ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:34:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Anatomy Charybdis GreyDragon wrote: "I wonder what it is about the eyes that makes them so different from the rest of the vessel?" There's a sort of anatomical mythology floating around most cultures. In the West, for instance, the heart is both the blood pump and the center of the soul, and this bit of metaphor is reflected in the IN "hearts" of angels and demons. Eyes are traditionally "windows into the soul." This may have inspired the screenwriter of "Prophecy" to pull the funny tricks with them that he did, the soul of an angel being more prominent, so to speak, than a human's. That, plus the empty eye sockets trick is a nice bit of creepery for a horror flick. I took the lack of eye anatomy to imply that the angel's eyes were actually parts of its spiritual body, its "celestial form" in IN terms. This suggests the image of the angel peeking out of the eye-holes in its vessel, like a human peeking out of the eye-holes of a costume. Earl Wajenberg (P.S. -- Anywone else remember the following tag-line from "Dr. Who?"? One Time Lord to another while gossipping about politics: "I agree he's a bit radical, but I think his hearts are in all the right places.") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> unredjester "unredjester" Now *there's* a character name if I've ever read one. Balseraph of Kobal, methinks. yours, The Un-red Jester, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:30:24 -0400 From: John Dye Subject: IN> Alternate combat systems What is the word on the system of adding strength when calculating body hits rather then multiplying. It seems more logical, but how does it work in Essence? On another note, how well does the combat system work period? Lastly, has anyone used the GURPS conversions, and how do they work? Thank you for your support ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:11:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Novalis is NICE? > > 1) She's an Archangel. She wouldn't be where she is today, > ACTIVE and with the attunements she can give if she wasn't > tough. She's kind...which suggests to me she can afford to > be, whereas a number of the others seem so desperate to > violence, she gets what she wants *without it*. > I agree, but I think that it is important that her way is presented as being often more difficult than that of other archangels. Given that she is so much more pleasant than other archangels, there must be a reason why other archangels still hold political power. Although its wrong to make her a hippy, there have to be things to be said against her if she is to be an interesting character. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:26:42 -0400 From: John Dye Subject: Re: IN> Arches&Princes Damian O'Dea wrote: > > Walter Milliken wrote: > > No PC (other than a Malakim) should even *contemplate* using any > > sort of force on a Superior. > > Enough with the Malakim-bashing already. This is not directed at > only yourself Walter - there's a lot of people who seem to > perceive them as gung-ho thoughtless head-crackers. Not So! > > The only choir likely to try and tackle a Superior is going to be > the Ofanim, because they are Motion; action before thought, try > anything once and to hell with how much noise I make! Yeah, it seems pretty obvious that the Malakim have become the In Nom version of AD&D Paladins. Everybody seems so "sure" of what they are that they let their limitations control all of their role playing. Thus all Malakim become the same. Perhaps Anael from Pyramid 23 was a little too off base, but the Old Guy from the Night Music vignette seems to be one of the few original type malk's. Just MHO. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Kabael wrote: > I have two questions: > > Secondly, has anyone run an In Nomine game without the existance of God or > definite good and evil distinctions, but leaning towards a more gray view. No, but prior to the much-delayed release of In Nomine, I did end up producing my own angels/demons game using GURPS rules. There is no God in this game. There used to be one, but, being hugely derivative of KULT, he has disappeared. The game can be found at the GURPSnet ftp site, which you can reach from the SJG web site. If anyone would like to give me any feedback, I would be soooooo grateful. > *The diabolicals are not really the celestials just say they are* kind of > thing. Mine was something like that. Whether someone was a diabolical or a celestial depended on what they decided they were. Much like real life, it was just a matter of declaring yourself on one side or the other. Obviously, not everyone agreed with everyone else's declarations. Many Celestials think that others who call themselves Celestial are really Infernal (the terminoloy in my game for Diabolical). Indeed, in my game there is almost as much out and out hostility between some of the choirs as there is between the two sides. > How did it turn out. I think having an absent or silent God might > add a whole new dimension of paranoia to In Nomine. It seemed to work well. Still, God is *pretty* damned silent (or absent) in In Nomine. Why does he allow such squabling among archangels? P.S. In *my* game, archangel is a self-appointed position, like "king". Anyone with enough strength (either personal or political) can stand up and declare him or herself an anch-angel (or arch-fiend)). Did I mention that it is at the GURPSnet ftp site under Races/Angels and that I would *love* any feedback anyone might like to give? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:32:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: IN> Cycles Given that each book in a cycle is going to advance the plot line of the game world, how will this affect reprints? What if, five years from now, someone wants information on The Marches. Won't they be forced to buy outdated an innacurate information about the political situation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:51:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Smif P.S. While we are on the subject, I am of the opinion that SJG games art was atrocious prior to Smif and damned impressive once he had arrived on the scene. I am not attacking Smif's art per se, just the comic-book colouring. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:22:09 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Re: Vessel Anatomy > somewhre, probably on the list.) The main problem I have is with those > freaky Elohim who refuse to take sexed Vessels., I mean, get into a car Not to mention those Servitors of Baal who take the forms of horrible slavering mythological creatures... > As for Talking Animal Vessels...I'd hazard a guess that the actual > tweaking of the voice box structure is minute enough trhat it would take a Though regarding animal vessels, I'd hazard a guess that people rarely perform serious autopsies on dead animals, so they can get away with a lot more there. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:49:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Smif > > << There has been some criticism of Smif's art in In Nomine, on the ground > that it gave the book too much of a comic book feel instead of a more > World of Darkness atmosphere. However, I recently discovered than many of > the best pictures in Mage 2nd Ed are done by Smif. Is it, then, the > colouring process which causes problems? What do people think? > >> > Personally I think Smif's art really cooks! He's outstanding! I can think of > a few other people's art that I might want to use, but these people are very > very good. Any book with them in it would be really expensive... > > Seriously, if you don't like Smif, then who *would* you get? Hang on! I never actually said I didn't like Smif. What I was suggesting was that uncoloured Smif might actually have been better than coloured Smif. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Smif > > I have enjoyed Dan Smith's art since first picking up INWO, and I like the > look it gives the IN book. I think that many ppl are playing the game alot > darker than my group, but can you think of somebody else that could draw a > better Novalis, haagenti or Vapula?? > Ouch! I think there are some great pictures in In Nomine (the Habbalah and Grigori spring to mind), but there is one that I just *cannot stand* and that is the picture of Novalis. She is possibly my favorite superior but the picture just doesn't look like she is being taken seriously. I would have rather just had a picture of a flower. Come to think of it, I generally prefer to keep my archangels faceless - it makes them more mysterious and awesome. But now I'm changing the topic. My point is just that it should be possible to take Novalis seriously, and I can't take the woman in the picture seriously. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:49:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: New Discord: FlowerPower (Re: IN> A Couple of Questions) At 2:54 PM -0600 6/17/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > 'Course, if they get TOO nasty, Novalis is likely to tap them on >the shoulders and have a Word with them...(It's when they get to the point >that she gives them that special Attunement such that any time they try to >speak violence, a flower comes out of their mouth instead.) FlowerPower Discord At level 1, this is not *too* awful, though it looks odd -- it's mostly things like flower *petals*, appearing at the lips. As the discord mounts, however, the flowers start getting bigger, and actually appearing inside the mouth to be spat out along with the words... At level 6, the unfortunate character is dealing with whole sunflowers, dandilions gone to seed, and bouquets of roses (with the thorns still attached, of course).... And if that doesn't help, Novalis might just slap the person into a potplant vessel for a while to contemplate their sins. emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:31:05 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Pagan gods... From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: IN> Pagan gods... >What do you think if a pagan god, such as Athena, decided she'd had enough >of hiding out in the Marches and petitioned Heaven for "angel-hood" or >whatever. Fine. Brigit did it after all. In this case the obvious Word for her would be Wisdom. Dahak on the other hand is probably waiting for a chance at Uriel before he comes in from the cold. Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com Article XXII :- The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping and Adoration, as well as images as of Reliques, and also invopcations of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and is grounded upon no warrenty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God. 39 Articles of Religon, 1562, Book of Common Prayer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:50:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Vessel Anatomy At 1:34 AM -0500 6/19/97, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: [...] >[...] The main problem I have is with those >freaky Elohim who refuse to take sexed Vessels., I mean, get into a car >accident and knocked unconscious there, and the hospital will know at leas >that you're well...different. Heck, it's obcious in a locker room. I >suppose they see some Logic in doing that sort of thing, bu I don't. I suspect that Elohim *don't* take unsexed vessels -- at least, *most* of them don't. (And if they do, it's probably a "male" who obviously has scar tissue from some "horrible accident.") However, it is a popular statement with the Servitors of Lust that Elohim are not anatomically correct. Then again, Servitors of Lust include Balseraphs, and how many of the others have *really* managed to get into bed with an *Elohite* and check for themselves? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:41:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Malakim (Re: IN> Arches&Princes) At 12:26 PM -0400 6/19/97, John Dye wrote: >Damian O'Dea wrote: >> >> Walter Milliken wrote: >> > No PC (other than a Malakim) should even *contemplate* using any >> > sort of force on a Superior. >> >> Enough with the Malakim-bashing already. This is not directed at >> only yourself Walter - there's a lot of people who seem to >> perceive them as gung-ho thoughtless head-crackers. Not So! >> >> The only choir likely to try and tackle a Superior is going to be >> the Ofanim, because they are Motion; action before thought, try >> anything once and to hell with how much noise I make! > >Yeah, it seems pretty obvious that the Malakim have become the In Nom >version of AD&D Paladins. It's that honor kick. > Everybody seems so "sure" of what they are >that they let their limitations control all of their role playing. Thus >all Malakim become the same. > >Perhaps Anael from Pyramid 23 was a little too off base, but the Old Guy >from the Night Music vignette seems to be one of the few original type >malk's. Hey, hey, the initial wasn't Malakim-*bashing* -- a Malakite probably *would* contemplate using force against a Demon Prince. And then, if smart (and some of them are, despite game mechanics that tend to leave them weak in Ethereal Forces), would eat the dissonance and go back to his Archangel saying, "I saw a Demon Prince today, sir, but thought you should know about it rather than me suiciding in an attack." And if the Archangel is sensible, the Archangel says, "You did well, my Servitor. Here, lemme fix that dissonance for ya." Though it does seem to me that Malakim probably *do* tend to be a little "dim," celestially speaking. Either that, or they specialize -- some are corporeal-fighters, some are celestial heavies, and some are the tacticians with the Ethereal songs (and they *are* smart). Just the way the game mechanics work out -- you make a combatwombat , and there's two major Forces you want to concentrate on: Corporeal and Celestial. And where's smarts? Ethereal... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:45:31 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God > >First: has anyone used the card game Heresy: Kingdom Come developed by Last >Unicorn Games, IIRC, as inspiration or a source of NPCs. Has anyone used it >as an alternate setting, Last Unicorn was supposed to publish an RPG last I >heard. Yes: I am a great lover of the Heresy game, and though I don't play it, I have a lot of the cards. They are just splendid, for both concept and artwork. I've heard that the RPG is still vaguely in the pipelines, though have no clue as to timing, alas. My webpage has a link to a couple more Heresy pages, for the curious. http://www.tcp.co.uk/~maya/heresy.html Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:51:46 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Heresy: Kingdom Come and God Actually as well... When I first read about _In Nomine_ (and I believe it was in Pyramid #1? Sometime way back when) I thought it was a really cool idea. I was writing all the time then too - I still try to write, hope to be a writer, but it's harder for me to write now that I'm not depressed all the time. I took a kind of twisted outlook on angel versus demon warfare. I haven't read KULT, so I don't know what their idea is. In mine, Michael assassinated God back around the time of the late renaissance/early 1700s. He felt that God wasn't doing enough. About half the angels agreed with him. The other half followed Gabriel (male in my story), who felt that God had been doing a great job, and thinks that God isn't dead. God isn't saying either way. Anyways, the internal factionalism of angels gave the demons, who are bigger then either faction of angels but not bigger then the angels as a whole, domain over Earth, as the angels fought in Heaven. By the time they realized what was happening, society had gone down the tubes. The story took place in the mid 21st century, in a very "Cyberpunk" society (the genre, not the RPG). The angels are trying to get a truce to fight the demons, the demons are sabotaging it, where's God, what do humans think, etc. I've actually debated after this campaign setting an IN campaign farther in the future; hmm...cybernetically enhanced Soldiers of God duking it out with Biotech Soldiers of Hell, while Angels and Demons are more cautious because of bigger firepower for humans? Hmmm.... SeanMike *****************Random Thoughts************* *I'm locked and loaded, and you'll have to pay - Oderus *I'm too high to type right now. - Balsac, the Jaws of Death *Nothing is more offensive then the truth. - The Heretic *Are you a real person or do you just play one on TV? - Oderus ***************************************** ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #218 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.