From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 25 19:11:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00512 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:11:09 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02659 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:04:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:04:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199706252204.RAA02659@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #228 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, June 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 228 In this digest: Re:IN> Passwords Re: IN> Outcast Questions Re: IN> Rescue: 666 Re: IN> Looking for Company/Trouble Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers Re: IN> Attunements Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) RE: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' w IN> Separation of cause from effect Re: IN> Angels and the Bomb? Re: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' with the Seraphim) Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) Re: IN> Speaking of bombs! Re: IN> IN: big bombs!!! (And Disturbances of Ungodly Size Re: IN> Rescue: 666 IN> LARP II IN> LARP I Re: IN> INLARP, In League...with whom? Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) Re: IN> Separation of cause from effect Re: IN> Re: In Nomine on the brain.. Vessel Level and Celestial Anatomy (was Re: IN> Roles & Celestial Anatomy) Re: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' with the Seraphim) RE: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' w IN> Toys for Vapula Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) Re:IN> Passwords Re: IN> Rescue: 666 Re: IN> Re: In Nomine on the brain.. Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re:IN> Passwords IN> Nephallim (LONG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:05:13 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re:IN> Passwords > [Christopher Paul] > >Needing to contact a Malakim servitor of Dominic, while in D.C., our > >Elohite goes to the security desk at the supreme court building and pages: > >"Mr. Dominic Malakim." > [Charybdis] > Not a problem among humans, but wouldn't that be a bit obvious to any > Infernals who were around? Yes, but how many crazy Infernals are going to hurry over to see a Malkite of Dominic? Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:08:26 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Outcast Questions Karakash wrote: > No agreement on what should happen yet. The problem is that > the answer is vitally important to how the world works so it can't > be decided in haste. Here's a couple of suggestions and you can > take your pick until the official answer is out. > This is actually an important point, because it probably affects free Lilim as well. They have no hearts to begin with, so their Forces are going to randomly swirl around too if they get killed. I like the suggestions of Limbo, though. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:18:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 At 5:35 AM -0300 6/24/97, Andre Ribeiro wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > [...] > Just a question: Which winged animal would be her celestial >form?? Giant Hummingbird. (It's that "birds and bees" thing, y'know? Hummers are what hang around flowers the most...) - --K.K., Lilim of Kobal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:21:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Looking for Company/Trouble At 6:11 AM -0300 6/24/97, Andre Ribeiro wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> At 11:09 PM -0600 6/22/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> >(we had little quips like, "You wouldn't be with the Guardian Angels, >> >> >would you?", "I've a relation named Novalis...might you know >> >her...brother, Michael?" > >> There's also things like, "'Scuse me, but could you ask if there >> are any friends of one David Stone around?" over the phone. > > That reminds me of a question: Do the celestials instantly >know each other as another celestial (I know they don't, but I had to >ask...)? What would the game mechanics for that perception roll? Angels >would have a bonus to detect Angels? Or they are always walking around >blindly (kinda paranoid, isn't it?)?? They do not automatically know if someone is a celestial, or what side, if all parties are in vessels. Check the INC pages, In Nomine Specific Resources, Tips... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/perception.txt (I gotta HTMLize that one...) This gives clever uses of Resonances and Attunements and Distinctions, to smoke out other celestials. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:29:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers At 7:32 PM -0300 6/23/97, Andre Ribeiro wrote: > If a celestial, say, a demon servitor of Kronos, is surrounded >by a quartz watch, a wind-up clock, a hand-written biography, a >century-old grandfather clock, an atomic clock and is sitting next to >the Big Ben does it means he has a +21 modifier to invocate his Demon >Prince?? p. 109 (for Archangels): "Special invocation modifiers, listed for each Archangel, work only for that Archangel. Unless specified otherwise, only *one* of these special modifiers can be used per attempt!" I would assume it's the same for the Princes, since they follow the Universal Invocation Modifiers (p. 108) as well. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:25:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Attunements At 12:59 AM -0700 6/24/97, zingaro@peak.org wrote: >Thank you for the lovely answers on Roles. Now, I have a new wrench. >My Impudite [of Haagenti] wants to pick up the Lilim atttunement. >It mentions the gesa/geas in the description -- is the geas part of >the Lilim resonance? Or a side effect of it? I would think part of it, since it can only be invoked after the Lilim has met a Need that she's spotted using her Resonance. If you can fast-talk your GM otherwise, of course, that's fine... };) But as a GM, *I* would say, "Nope, sorry." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:16:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) At 3:46 PM -0600 6/23/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> That's where the PCs come in. If they'll agree to a teensie little >> Geas [Assumption: All Superiors can inflict those, if they wish to.], > Though it's similarly probable that they can remove them, [This has never been entirely clear, actually -- don't you think that Bright Lilim would have their Geasa removed by their AA's, if that were the case? But the brief paragraph about them states that such is not the case... The comments about whether it's *wise* to try to get a Prince to do so are still perfectly valid! Heh heh heh. I love 'em.] [...] >> "dancing" Rite, upon successful completion of the mission. (She's >> unlikely to bestow Attunements or Distinctions, unless she thinks >> that they'd influence a demon towards the Bright side of the "Force.") > Oog..I can think of very few Demon Princes I might be serving that >I'd WANT a Distinction from the Archangel of Flowers...can you imagine the >next time you meet them? "Say, what's this bright spot on your soul?" >Asmodeus asks suddenly... "Uhhhh...." >> they try and fail), then one of the angels who was with the kid can >> come out of Trauma and provide some hints -- kinds of Attunements >> that were used, names shouted during the battle, tactics, etc. > This could also be a way to slip one in if one player -REALLY- >wants to play an Angel. (Awfully dangerous, though, but PC's are stupid. >They're bound to think of a way. Maybe pretend it's another prisoner..) "Uh, we've got a Wookie prisoner to transfer..." >> dissonant/Discordant (it would rather be Discordant than Outcast >> or Fallen), or actually become a baby Balseraph (though probably a >> thoroughly ticked-off one). > Or confused...still preaching Truth, Peace, and Redemption, not >even realizing that it's now a Balseraph of Malphas with the Imbroglio >Attunement..(Or, for a very special case like this, perhaps Malphas got >Kronos to take it on, giving it the Seraph Resonance still...if Novalis >isn't paying close attention, even an Archangel might be fooled when they >-really want- something, and that darker shade is just a side effect of >that awful place which she's sure will clear up soon...granting that it >still won't strictly be on Hell's side, I could see Malphas and Kronos >both gleefully working out the whole thing, including the rescue, just to >get a Balseraph who doesn't know it right under Novalis's nose...getting >her in major, MAJOR trouble with Dominic when someone else notices. Not >even Yves could shield her from something like that. Especially if, as >I'd propose, the Seraph of Flowers Attunement would just naturally, >quietly, twist to something equivalent to the Imbroglio Attunement from >Malphas anyway. Poor Shellie wouldn't even know.) You have a sick mind, do you know that? I like you. A Balseraph of Fate with Seraph attunement... Though they'd have had to *not* give it a demonic Heart... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:30 +0930 From: "ZZ No Mail - dpo (leave)" Subject: RE: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' w Jeff Miller wrote: > >ODie... > > > or is there a Demon of Bad Puns instead?> > > > Think about it. > Then there would have to be an Angel of Good Puns. Nah. There's an Angel of Bad Puns too. Just like the guys who argue over the word of Cities ;p Hey canoneers! Do we have these guy's names yet? > Is the world ready for such a concept? Good Puns? I can't conceive of such a thing. ODie... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: IN> Separation of cause from effect Something I was thinking about today: If a demon whips out a gun and blows Yo-Random Mortal (YRM) away, that's a big "DingDingDing" in the Symphony. If a demon directly controls a mortal (Possession, or whatever) and makes them blow away YRM, that also rings the Symphony's glockenspiel of alarm... If a demon talks a mortal into slaying YRM, is everything cool? If a demon casually tosses a pail of oil on a BART platform, hoping to cause confusion, and someone is later on accidentally pushed in front of the Richmond line...what's that? Is the intent enough to make a connection between demon and deed? Suppose Tamin is a Shedim currently occupying an elevator repairman (circa 1987). He tweaks the guy's latent laziness, so he replaces only half the emergency brakes. This means that sometime, in the vague and distant future (1997) the elevator will have an accident, have to rely on the brakes, and the two, worn, unreplaced ones fail...The others are unable to hold it, and it drops. Certainly, Tamin had mischief in mind, but does the poor bloke suddenly find every angel in Pasadena knocking on his door because an elevator-full of mortals died in Tampa Bay? (This sounds vaguely like an LSAT question...) Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:32:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Angels and the Bomb? John Dye noted; > You are correct. We are arguing different points. I just feel that the > Superiors would have a problems with some peon angels setting off a nuke > WITHOUT prior discussion, even if it did frag a Prince. I was afraid of that.. That much I'd definitely agree with, especially considering some Superiors get ticked off if their earthbound servants SNEEZE without asking...(Novalis: "What, my pollen isn't GOOD enough for you to breathe, I suppose?") But I was taking it as given that the Superiors knew the characters were working towards it...though they wouldn't necessarily expect anything to come of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:45:00 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' with the Seraphim) Walter Milliken wrote: > > >> So, if Kyriotates sing three-part harmony with themself, does this > >> mean that they like to sing Kyrioke? > > > >I thought Kyriotates were mainly into free form Jazz? That doesn't seem to > >lend itself to three part harmony very often. > > But a Kyrio of Lightning can have quite a jam session all by itself.... > > ---Walter strwberry or grape? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:55:37 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) >You have a sick mind, do you know that? I like you. > >A Balseraph of Fate with Seraph attunement... > This occurred to me as I wrote up Hypaeos...wouldn't such a demon just suffer a near-instant meltdown? Balseraphs may not know they're lying, but the Seraph Dissonance says nothing about only applying to voluntary lies...(not mistakes, but...hopefully that makes sense). Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:47:50 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of bombs! Jeff Miller wrote: > It must just be the name, but hearing that the Galleria (any Galleria) > has > been blown up is very satisfying. Hey, we've got a shopping mall here in my town who is called Galleria!! Any volunteers?? Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:50:24 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> IN: big bombs!!! (And Disturbances of Ungodly Size Adam Canning wrote: > God's word on the other hand seems to be ineffability, so no one would > > notice him turning up unless he felt it necessary. Apart the fact that God may *be* the Symphony - and He couldn't disturb Himself, could He? Huh... I think He could... Omnipotence is a cross sometimes... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:11:36 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Just a question: Which winged animal would be her > (Novalis) celestial > >form?? > > Giant Hummingbird. > > (It's that "birds and bees" thing, y'know? Hummers are what hang > around flowers the most...) It doesn't need no justification! A Giant Hummingbird you asked, a Giant Hummingbird you've got!! I like it! Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:45:51 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> LARP II Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > I usually just explain it as a form of experimental improvisational > theatre > and they seem to grok that okay. Yeah, that's great! Look what came to me on a morning news' interview: "It's like an interactive theater - one where the actors themselves are the spectators." But we announced we would be doing a live-action game in a club once and it was broadcasted! We couldn't play - - everyone was looking at us, smiling and pointing at the "Vampires"... So we usually just book some tables, when going public, and pretend we're having a party, a celebration. That's RPG, after all, pretending - isn't it?? Andre > -Loki > > -- > Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist > http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key > available. > For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:38:13 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> LARP I Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > > Of course, an ongoing IN LARP chronicle is totally different... > > Ah, you're talking one-shots, then. What I was curious about is how > one > might do a chronicle. That's what I'm working on - an ongoing IN LARP chronicle. How?? I'll use the Principalities concept that appears briefly in The Book and is expanded by Earl Wajenberg on Strack's IN Homepage. Each city will have its own word-bound Angel *and* Demon - one side in control and the other side fighting for it. During the campaign, the city may alternate between Good and Evil possession, and this will affect all its inhabitants. The players, while serving their own Superior, will also be under the City-bounded Celestial - and that's enough for a lifelong campaign ('til Armageddon, at least - I heard it will be the cycle of '99... ). I'm thinking in putting a major Tether symbolizing the word of the city - possessing it would mean possession of the city... something like that... Whadya think?? Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:57:40 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> INLARP, In League...with whom? Meera Barry wrote: > I've been tossing the idea back and forth for an INLARP, > and the scenario which keeps coming to mind is more a > "Revelations Party: Come As You Are" mostly with a mixed > crowd communicating in character, a half-courtesan's-dozen > subplots (basically, each character with about 3 goals) > running through, and Something Big to give it a time limit. Basicaly, for any kind of LARP, that's pretty enough - if you're going one-shot, of course. And who would invite Angels *and* Demons to the same party?? Andre > ["The Final Battle is winding down, and the scores are > close...earn the final souls for your side, redeem yourself, > doom yourself, or plant the seeds for a New Beginning. But, > first, attend The Final Party."] > > \\ Mb \\-------------------------------------------------------------- > > mabarry@abwam.com "moderator" for Courts of Chaos list > > All Chaos! All The Time! > > Chaos List FAQ: http://a-ztech.com/mabarry/chaos/index.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:00:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) Alexander Shearer noted; > This occurred to me as I wrote up Hypaeos...wouldn't such a demon > just suffer a near-instant meltdown? Balseraphs may not know they're lying, > but the Seraph Dissonance says nothing about only applying to voluntary > lies...(not mistakes, but...hopefully that makes sense). We went through this a little in a brief flurry of "Balseraph of Kronos Attunement" thoughts, and I THINK the general consensus ended up being that it should work fine - on the note that, as the book states in several places, Balseraphs really aren't lying...just voluntarily insane - but that if they invoked the Seraph Resonance and got a 6 check digit, the sudden confrontation with Truth would probably be a real risk of abrupt Redemption. (Similar to the Habbalah getting a 111 while invoking Emptiness. On the related note, it seemed agreed all around that ANY use of the Balseraph of Fate Attunement that got a 111 would work that way...but the Seraph one I do think should have that added risk. At the best, it would certainly slap them with some Dissonance.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:20:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) > >> Geas [Assumption: All Superiors can inflict those, if they wish to.], > > Though it's similarly probable that they can remove them, > [This has never been entirely clear, actually -- don't you think > that Bright Lilim would have their Geasa removed by their AA's, > if that were the case? But the brief paragraph about them states I consider a self-imposed Geas to be in a very different class, and most of the ones on a Lilim are...adding to that the note that Lilim Geasa are, similarily, a cut above ordinary ones, and I think there's an easy special case that not even Lucifer could necessarily remove. Though the only Canon case for the idea that Superiors can remove them is that Geasa are listed as an Ethereal Discord, and Superiors can definitely remove those in general... > >I'd propose, the Seraph of Flowers Attunement would just naturally, > >quietly, twist to something equivalent to the Imbroglio Attunement from > >Malphas anyway. Poor Shellie wouldn't even know.) > You have a sick mind, do you know that? I like you. Well, after being obstinate and vain, I had to have SOMETHING going for me, and chose "sick mind" over "football captain" when they gave me the pick...*shrug* > Though they'd have had to *not* give it a demonic Heart... True..though a Celestial with two Hearts is an odd concept...I think it would have very profound effects on their psyche, to say the least. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:09:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Separation of cause from effect > If a demon whips out a gun and blows Yo-Random Mortal (YRM) away, that's a > big "DingDingDing" in the Symphony. Unless he bought "Psychopath/6 (Status 1)" as a Role, of course... > If a demon talks a mortal into slaying YRM, is everything cool? I think so, yeah...just like an Angel can order her mortal servant to do it, and it's cool, or a Demon make an Undead do it... > If a demon casually tosses a pail of oil on a BART platform, hoping to cause > confusion, and someone is later on accidentally pushed in front of the > Richmond line...what's that? That one's cool, too, I think, though it's hard to justify why laying down some oil is cool while setting a bomb isn't...and offhand I'm honestly not sure where I'd qualify a tiger pit. > Certainly, Tamin had mischief in mind, but does the poor bloke suddenly find > every angel in Pasadena knocking on his door because an elevator-full of > mortals died in Tampa Bay? In ANY event, including a bomb, I think there's some `statute of limitations'...after something's been around a while, it'll integrate to the Symphony. The best evidence on this one for a Canon answer, though, I think comes from _A Dark Dream_...specifically, Marcus's little bit setting up the dog to come undone. All he did was make sure a vet had some bad stitching, just like all Tamin does here is make sure an elevator isn't fixed quite right. But though he certainly knew what would come of it, he doesn't seem too worried about any Symphonic echoes... {'Course, Shedim may cross the line a bit anyway. Technically, the Shedim is rarely the one actually doing it..they just nudge their host down the path. Here, for example, Tamin just `tweaks his natural laziness'. The elevator repair guy is ALREADY lazy and might have done that on his own...I'd qualify it similar to a Role's chance to avoid noise, I think.) > (This sounds vaguely like an LSAT question...) Heheh..."One Shedim leaves Chicago at 3:00 in the host of a train operator traveling 35 mph...a Malakim leaves New York in Celestial Form with a Perception of 5 and invokes the Celestial Song of Motion..." Aiieeeee... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:07:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Johnson Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Nomine on the brain.. On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Then we went over to add our customary Anime, and, without even > thinking about it, MaBarry picks up "Battle Angel." I shrugged and > comment, "Well, I guess it fits our theme..." She almost dropped it. Oh, dear. Now you've got me thinking... a Malakite of Gabriel, perhaps? It seems to fit pretty well... and I'm suddenly getting horrible, horrible thoughts about Desty Nova as an Impudite of Kronos... You know, it's scary how things can mesh sometimes... - -- Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:36:18 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Vessel Level and Celestial Anatomy (was Re: IN> Roles & Celestial Anatomy) Dear Kingsly (and List) I wrote: > >> short thought, does this verge over to the "Vessel Anatomy" thread. If you >> have "lived the life" then your vessel might b a lot more human, or maybe >> it's a bonus for buying the level 6 role. > Kingsly replied > Makes sense...actually, based on some of the other things they've >done with that, it might have more to do with Corporeal Forces. (The rules >on Trauma, for example, make clear that those indicate as well how firmly >attached to your Vessel you feel..) Just a thought today that maybe a look at Vessel Level / Corporeal Forces would be interesting. If the ratio is 1 then your vessel is as "solid" as a natural creature of your Corporeal Forces. If it is lower then you are a bit spongey, your vessel dosn't have to be thin or small, but it isn't all there. If the ratio is greater than 1 then you are tough as teak as we say down under. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. > > > Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 11:40 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' with the Seraphim) >> >> So, if Kyriotates sing three-part harmony with themself, does this >> >> mean that they like to sing Kyrioke? >> > >> >I thought Kyriotates were mainly into free form Jazz? That doesn't seem to >> >lend itself to three part harmony very often. >> >> But a Kyrio of Lightning can have quite a jam session all by itself.... > >strwberry or grape? Sorry, wrong Superior -- you want a Kyrio of Novalis. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:33:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: RE: Kyriofluff again (Re: IN> Screwin' w >If so, that would make a secret tryst between two Kyrios a > ... Kyrie liaison? Why do you need *two*? Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:59:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: IN> Toys for Vapula Hi -- I'm getting ready to run a game (a rather abrupt departure from my beloved Amber, I must admit) and last night I was in the midst of plotting. And I got stuck. Some of the plot revolves around this object that I gave Vapula and his minions called "the Device". It's a giant H. R. Geiger-ish hulking monstrosity with metal plates and tubes and wires and computer hunks and the whole nine yards. You power it by stuffing a Celestial in it and it runs off their forces until it drains them dry. The computer interface uses "Microsoft Device" running on Windows 95. (This IS hell, you know.) I even created a minion, an Impudite of Vapula, to administrate it. The problem is............. I can't decide exactly what it DOES, per se. Maybe nothing. I have a 117 ft. neon glowing Jesus somewhere out there that is supposed to do exactly nothing. Or maybe it's a big web server. Has anyone toyed with any really strange automations like this? THANKS. Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Computer Systems Consultant III Medical Center Information Technology Desktop Applications Team Current Quote: Caryn: "Can we be back before lunch?" Connie: "I have to be back before two. I have to go save a universe." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:25:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) At 7:55 PM -0700 6/24/97, Alexander Shearer wrote: >>You have a sick mind, do you know that? I like you. >> >>A Balseraph of Fate with Seraph attunement... >> > This occurred to me as I wrote up Hypaeos...wouldn't such a demon >just suffer a near-instant meltdown? Balseraphs may not know they're lying, >but the Seraph Dissonance says nothing about only applying to voluntary >lies...(not mistakes, but...hopefully that makes sense). So you get a demon who never lies... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:24:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re:IN> Passwords At 10:05 AM +0000 6/25/97, Leathal Weapon wrote: >> [Christopher Paul] >> >Needing to contact a Malakim servitor of Dominic, while in D.C., our >> >Elohite goes to the security desk at the supreme court building and pages: >> >"Mr. Dominic Malakim." >> >[Charybdis] > >> Not a problem among humans, but wouldn't that be a bit obvious to any >> Infernals who were around? > >Yes, but how many crazy Infernals are going to hurry over to see a >Malkite of Dominic? Hmmmm..... I dunno -- it's not *that* dangerous. Malakim of Dominic only harass angels and outcasts, right? Now, a Malakite of Laurence or Michael... Or Gaby. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:52:48 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 Andre Ribeiro wrote: > > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > > Just a question: Which winged animal would be her > > (Novalis) celestial > > >form?? > > > > Giant Hummingbird. > > > > (It's that "birds and bees" thing, y'know? Hummers are what hang > > around flowers the most...) > > It doesn't need no justification! A Giant Hummingbird you asked, > a Giant Hummingbird you've got!! I like it! > > Andre and her Word is Pollination, of course. [g,d,r] tom t ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:24:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Nomine on the brain.. At 2:07 AM -0500 6/25/97, Scott Johnson wrote: >On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > >> Then we went over to add our customary Anime, and, without even >> thinking about it, MaBarry picks up "Battle Angel." I shrugged and >> comment, "Well, I guess it fits our theme..." She almost dropped it. > >Oh, dear. Now you've got me thinking... a Malakite of Gabriel, perhaps? >It seems to fit pretty well... and I'm suddenly getting horrible, >horrible thoughts about Desty Nova as an Impudite of Kronos... You know, >it's scary how things can mesh sometimes... Nova's a Habbalite, not an Impudite. Trust me... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:28:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rescue: 666 (kinda long seed) At 12:20 AM -0600 6/25/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> >> Geas [Assumption: All Superiors can inflict those, if they wish to.], >> > Though it's similarly probable that they can remove them, >> [This has never been entirely clear, actually -- don't you think >> that Bright Lilim would have their Geasa removed by their AA's, >> if that were the case? But the brief paragraph about them states > > I consider a self-imposed Geas to be in a very different class, >and most of the ones on a Lilim are...adding to that the note that Lilim >Geasa are, similarily, a cut above ordinary ones, and I think there's an >easy special case that not even Lucifer could necessarily remove. > Though the only Canon case for the idea that Superiors can remove >them is that Geasa are listed as an Ethereal Discord, and Superiors can >definitely remove those in general... Needs some firming up. Or one could just rule that Geasa from Superiors (and/or Lilim?) can't be removed except with Intervention. I.e., a 111, a 666, or a personal interview with Lucifer... >> >I'd propose, the Seraph of Flowers Attunement would just naturally, >> >quietly, twist to something equivalent to the Imbroglio Attunement from >> >Malphas anyway. Poor Shellie wouldn't even know.) >> You have a sick mind, do you know that? I like you. > > Well, after being obstinate and vain, I had to have SOMETHING >going for me, and chose "sick mind" over "football captain" when they gave >me the pick...*shrug* Wise choice. Football captains are boring. >> Though they'd have had to *not* give it a demonic Heart... > True..though a Celestial with two Hearts is an odd concept...I >think it would have very profound effects on their psyche, to say the >least. I don't think it *could* happen - the implications in Redemption and Falling (the boxes) seem to state "one Heart at a time." The other Heart gets shattered when the new one is created. Mind you, if it happened and the PCs weren't where they could be told... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:25:11 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... At 04:57 PM 6/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >[Disclaimer: The demon described below, while loosely based on an actual >person, is fictional. The similarities, while not coincidental, are >mostly satirical and/or homagical. No insult is intended or should be >inferred. - AGL, in the hopes that by thus covering my @$$, I won't get >my heart punched out if the original ever sees this] > >Nalrah, Demon of Science Fiction, Balseraph Baron of the Media > ROTFLMAO I'm real tempted to send this to him.... Can you email me your phone number? -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:51:28 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re:IN> Passwords At 10:05 AM 6/25/97 GMT+10, you wrote: > >> [Christopher Paul] >> >Needing to contact a Malakim servitor of Dominic, while in D.C., our >> >Elohite goes to the security desk at the supreme court building and pages: >> >"Mr. Dominic Malakim." >> >[Charybdis] > >> Not a problem among humans, but wouldn't that be a bit obvious to any >> Infernals who were around? > >Yes, but how many crazy Infernals are going to hurry over to see a >Malkite of Dominic? > Hmmm.... It might be worth it to leap out and say, "Ha, I told you guys that that would smoke one of them out for us!" It might be worth it you could get the Malakite of D. to smoke the Angels. Not only would you have several Angels in Trauma (at the cost of *you* going into Trauma) but the Malakite would gain Dissonance since he inflicted unwarrented punishment *and* the Malakite wouldn't find out whatever the Angels were trying to tell him. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:39:40 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Nephallim (LONG) - --=====================_867278380==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, all, it's me again. This is my version of Fallen Grigori, the Nephallim, meant to match up with the Grigori info I posted earlier. I'm interested in comments and criticisms, especially with regard to game balance. Not that there's much to worry about game balance with a bunch of demons that are all dead, but... - --- - --=====================_867278380==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" NEPHALLIM -- THE GIANTS Heronaim was angry. Baal had promised him power, and it wasn't coming nearly fast enough. Baal kept telling him to wait. "There are rumors that God is going to send a Flood," Baal had said. Who cares? Heronaim could swim. But Heronaim was just smart enough not to attack a Demon Prince, so he sat in his hole, sulking. But it didn't stop him from being angry. *Pain,* he thought. *Pain will clear this up.* Heronaim wandered to the back of the hole, where the man was tied up, naked and covered with his own filth. Just as Heronaim liked it. Smiling, he covered himself with the form of a warrior from the man's village, right before his prisoner looked up. Relief washed across the man's features. "Quickly," he whispered. "Loosen the bonds." Heronaim smiled and nodded at him, pulling at the rope. "Careful," he said. "Don't pull... so hard." Heronaim kept pulling. Then he returned to his true form. When the man started screaming, Heronaim joined in, still smiling. He didn't stop screaming until Heronaim had finished pulling his arm off. Everyone (at least, everyone with a Celestial soul) knows that some of the children of the Grigori were known to the demons as the Nephallim. What is less well known is that some Nephallim existed even before the Grigori started laying down with the sons of Adam and the daughters of Eve... Nephallim are Fallen Grigori, and the most corrupt of the demons. They make even the Shedim sick. The average Giant has little or no impulse control. They are the ogres, the hags and the trolls of legend. They were so horrifying (mentally as well as physically) that God send the Flood to wipe them out. They are the Nephallim. Where, then, do the tales of gigantic Nephallim born of the daughters of Eve come from? Simple. When a child of a Grigori is born, its soul is either more Celestial or more human. If it is more Celestial, the result, born in sin, is a Grigori that has already Fallen. A member of the Nephallim. Since such Nephallim have a sliver of a human soul, they are generally a little weaker than other Nephallim, though some optimists whisper that they are also more likely to be Redeemed. If the soul is more human than Celestial, the result is one of the smaller, more inconspicuous Children of the Grigori. RESONANCE Where the Grigori are masters at noticing detail, the Nephallim are masters at hiding detail. Their resonance is for illusion, which they use to trick humans into doing what the Giant desires. Gruel can be disguised as a sumptuous meal, the Giant's hideous appearance can be hidden so he can bed the king's daughter, an illusionary bridge can be placed over a deadly chasm. Anything the Giant's twisted mind can devise can (and will) be projected into the mind of another. DISSONANCE To understand the Nephallim, one must first understand the Grigori. The Grigori are charged with remaining aloof from humans. It is dissonant for them to become intimate with Man. The way the Nephallim reconsile this with their selfish, Fallen nature is to stop caring. The Nephallim are much envied by the Djinn -- they don't give a rat's ass for anyone or anything, and they don't become obsessed. All their care about is the gratification of their own desires. Pleasure, of all sorts, is the only goal of the Nephallim. In this respect, a person is no better or worse than a bowl of food, a sword, or a herd of cattle. All that matters is what the Giant wants, and how he decides to go about getting it. For this reason, there are two forms of dissonance for a Giant. If a member of the Nephallim actually comes to care about a sentient being (especially a human), he gains a note of Dissonance for every week it goes on. This dissonance can only be cleared up by destroying the object of his concern. Also, if a Giant is ever thwarted in a desire, he gains a note of dissonance until either he attains the desire or he does something else (usually something violent) to make himself feel better... MANNER AND APPEARANCE The Celestial form of the Nephallim vary widely. Dragons, terribly misshapen humans, fanged creatures with a thousand eyes -- all of these and more are the Nephallim. Two things remain constant: All Nephallim are hideous, and all Celestial Nephallim are gigantic (at least twelve feet tall). Humans who see a Giant in Celestial form usually flee in fear, not stopping until they collapse from exaustion. Grigori prefer equally hideous and gigantic Vessels, though their Vessels are nearly always humanlike. Those born to human women always have a giant human Vessel (and a nearly identical Celestial form), though none are beautiful to gaze upon. Clothing, when worn at all, is usually in the form of sewn-together animal skins. Nephallim gererally distain smaller vessels, using their powers of illusion for stealth. One might think it's odd that a Watcher, in love with humanity in such a personal way, would find it so easy to stop caring about them, even when Fallen. Even Impudites love humans, in their own, twisted way. One might think this might cause something of a mental strain. One would be right. How do the Nephallim deal with this strain? By going crazy. And not crazy in a relatively stable way, like a Balseraph or a Habbalah, but absolutely, completely nuts. The insanity of the Nephallim make them ravening monsters, raping, killing, and devouring their way through life. They are the dark mirror of Man -- Humanity's worst and most base desires are reflected in the desires of the Nephallim. Cannibalism, necrophilia, and torture are only some of their hobbies. The most sane of the Nephallim would be considered serial killers today. And when one considers that it is dissonant for them to ignore their desires... It is no surprise, then, that God destroyed the Nephallim, along with others, in the great Flood. What is less well-known is why there are no Nephallim today. After all, couldn't a Demon Prince just create one, as he might a Balserpah or a Shedite? The fact of the matter is, the Nephallim are natural Renegades, much as the Grigori seem to be natural Outcasts. They are quite unstable and it is Dissonant for them to ignore their desires, whatever they may be. While many Nephallim signed on with varous Demon Princes, it was only a matter of time before they went rogue, following this desire or the other. Even Saminga tired of them, eventually. Nephallim created from scratch are even worse -- even if you order them to rape, pillage, and burn everything in sight, their desires will pull them into doing something else. They are rebellous by nature, no matter how carfully crafted for loyalty. On top of which, despite their resonance for illusion, they are rarely subtle, and angels can smell them from a mile away. For this reason, no Demon Prince has ever created a Nephallim since the Flood. They were of limited usefulness before then, and now they are even more useless, in the quiet War that is currently being waged on Earth. It is said that Lilith learned many lessons from the form of Freedom (i.e. Anarchy) that the Nephallim represented, and this is part of the reason her Lilim are so subtle and devious, in contrast to the Nephallim, who rarely planned more than a half-hour ahead. It is believed all of the Nephalim are dead, their Forces scattered to the four winds by angels, servitors of the Game, and the Flood. If any have survived to this day, they were probably little-known human-born Nephallim who learned how to be subtle and somehow figured out a way to survive the Flood. (Perhaps their Grigori fathers sheltered them.) If such Nephallim actually existed, they would be fearsome indeed, having centuries of experience behind them, and possibly quite refined (but still dark) "tastes". GAME MECHANICS When they want to be, the Nephallim are masters of deception, though of a decidedly different sort than the Balseraphs. They can impose their illusions on any number of people within line-of-sight by making a Will roll. The Check Digit determines how realistic the illusion is, and how many senses it affects, and how long it lasts (see below). The demon can choose to stop affecting any given subject at any time before the illusion's duration is up, "dispelling" the illusion. If anyone new arrives on the scene, the demon may make a Will roll to affect them as well -- possibly even getting a better result! Nephallim that are human/Celestial crossbreeds have a -2 penalty to thier Will roll, and a - -1 penalty to their Check Digit (cannot go below 1). They also may have other weaknesses (GM's decision) -- some sort of Achilles' Heel was common. The victim may make a Will roll when first affected, and any time afterward if they are given good reason to believe that what they are seeing is not real (GM's decision). If the Will roll succeeds *with an equal or higher check digit than the demon*, the illusion doesn't work, or, from the victim's perspective, vanishes, if they had been believing in it previously. Celestial beings may add their Ethereal Forces to their Will roll, and angels may substitute Perception for Will, once again adding their Ethereal Forces. (This is the other reason the angels had such an easy time getting rid of the Nephallim.) Any human who sees a Giant in Celestial form must make a Will roll or run away for at number of minutes equal to the check digit rolled plus the Giant's Celestial Forces. Anyone trying to stop the running person is likely to be attacked, or battered out of the way -- we're talking absolute, primal panic here. Generally, only a threat to life and limb, or to someone the person in question loves very, very deeply (GM's decision) will allow the human to stop running and possibly even face the Giant. Soldiers (and other humans who can control their Essence flow) may spend an Essence to get another Will roll if they fail, after running for at least a round. Nephallim, like Grigori (q.v.), always have a gigantic Vessel, a Vessel/7 or larger. Nephallim human/Celestial crossbreeds are born with such a Vessel, starting with a Vessel of a size equal to their Corporeal Forces +3, or a Vessel/7, whichever is larger. This is one of the few advantages of being such a crossbreed, rather than an ordinary Fallen angel. Unlike the Grigori, Nephallim rarely (if ever) have an alternate, smaller Vessel -- the Nephallim are very tied to the flesh, and many of them suffer from the "Bound" Discord. NEPHALLIM CHECK DIGIT RESULTS 1...The illusion can affect one sense (usually sight) except touch, and lasts for a number of minutes equal to the demon's Celestial Forces. 2...The illusion can affect up to two senses (except touch) and lasts for a number of minutes equal to twice the demon's Celestial Forces. 3...The illusion can affect three senses (except touch) and lasts for a number of minutes equal to 3 x the demon's Celestial Forces. 4...The illusion can affect four senses (except touch) and lasts for a number of minutes equal to 10 x the demon's Celestial Forces. 5...The illusion affects all five senses, including touch, but cannot physically harm the subject, except indirectly. (An illusionary ape can't pummel a man to death, but he can push him over a cliff, since the man, convinced there's an ape there, will stagger backward and fall.) The illusion lasts for an hour plus a number of minutes equal to 10 x the demon's Celestial Forces. 6...As above, but the illusion lasts for a number of hours equal to the demon's Celestial Forces. Below are a list of attunements for Nephallim, in case the GM thinks that any of the Nephallim that served a Demon Prince might still be around. Several Demon Princes are not listed, either because they were not around during that time (and therefore never learned to make them, like Haagenti), or they chose not to have Nephallim as servitors. Andrealphus. Nephallim of Lust could add their one to their Check Digit when using their resonance on anyone they had had sex with. Whether the subject consented to the sex was immaterial. The Nephallim were a little too fond of rape for even Andre's tastes. Baal. Nephallim of War recieved a +1 bonus to their Check Digits when using their resonance during combat. They were often used by Baal for decoy missions, and while they died in droves, they often took many angels with them. Beleth. While Nephallim of Nightmares, unlike Shedim, were still barred from taking their celestial form on Earth, their Vessels caused fear in the same way their celestial form does. Belial. Nephallim of Fire always got a check digit of 6 when creating illusionary fire. Kobal. Kobal's Nephallim regained Essence every time they used their resonance on someone and caused others to laugh at him. They were fond of singling out a particular person and making them seem as if they were crazy, making their friends and family laugh at them despite themselves. Kronos. The illusions of Nephallim of Fate always lasted for a day, regardless of the check digit rolled. They often worked closely with Habbalah, working together to created a hellish landscape of internal and external stimuli that would lead a man to his Fate. Unfortunately, the Habbalah often tired of the Nephallim, and would slay them after a time. Malphas. A Giant of Factions could make a Perception roll to discover what sight (i.e. what potential illusion) will break a person's trust or destroy a relationship. The check digit of the successful Perception roll reflects the importance of the trust or the relationship. Saminga. Nephallim who served Saminga could kill a human without disturbing the Symphony, so long as the Giant did not touch (and was not touched by) the human during the course of the combat. Using a weapon, such as a sword, counted as "not touching". (This is sort of the inverse of the Balserpah attunement. A Nephallim with the Balseraph attunement could kill a human in any fashion and not disturb the Symphony. Such Nephallim were quite common before the Flood.) - --=====================_867278380==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll - --=====================_867278380==_-- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #228 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.