From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 2 22:44:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10666 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:44:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA01308 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:25:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:25:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199707012125.QAA01308@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #233 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, July 1 1997 Volume 01 : Number 233 In this digest: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... IN> GenCon Revisited Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... IN> Undead Q. Re: IN> Undead Q. Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Undead Q. Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... IN> Disturbance Q. Re: IN> Undead Q. Re: IN> Looking for Company/Trouble Re: IN> Attunements Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers Re: IN> Separation of cause from effect Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers Re: IN> Disturbance Q. Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:20:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Jeff Miller wrote: ">SF is not dead. "No not dead but different from the way it started. It started with a "Gosh, I wonder what's out there," "won't it be grand" and "if there's a problem, we can fix it" in the first half of the century. In the seventies, it started moving toward, insurmountable problems and fear for the future." Negative, alarming, and gloomy science fiction did not have to wait for the '70s to be born. The '50s and '60s saw plenty of cautionary tales about the new threat of nuclear holocaust. Pohl and Kornbluth invented the dystopia of the megacorporations in the '60s (or maybe '50s; I'm not sure). Going back to one of the foundational stories of SF, "Frankenstein" is not exactly a pastorale and not exactly pro-science, either. H. G. Wells's "Invisible Man" and "Time Machine" are almost wholly negative in outlook. In "War of the Worlds," humanity escapes annihilation, but only because the Martians screw up. I think I could make similar arguments about Verne's Capt. Nemo and similar characters, but I only know those at second hand. By the way, for the ultimate SF-IN tie-in, the first science fiction story in the world (in my opinion) was "Somnium" ("Dream") by the astronomer Johannes Kepler, in which he describes, with scientific accuracy that is still pretty good, a trip to the moon. The IN tie-in is that the motive force to get to the moon is a demon conjured up by the narrator's mother, who is a witch. (Witches and demons were not fantasy in Kepler's time and place. He had to rescue his own mother from being burned as a witch.) The demon advises the narrator to wrap himself in multiple layers of blankets, to cushion take-off shock, and to hold damp cloths in front of his face to protect against the thin air between here and the moon. The first space-suit, courtesy of Nybbas? Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:02:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: IN> GenCon Revisited I know that earlier there was a brief thread about possibly meeting up for a late In Nomine session at GenCon. By now, everyone should have gotten their Reg. books. So... is it still on? I honestly can't remember many of the posts. I hope so, because the one convention IN session appears to be angels only, and I like to get in a bit of diabolicality (Is that a word?) when possible. Oops da Ogre, whose Habbalah in this weekend's session was trying to keep from getting bored on a road-trip with a Djinn. Passing cow out to pasture + Emptyness = "Mooo..." *thud* Hey, the GM cracked up. ;'} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:25:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... > The first space-suit, courtesy of Nybbas? I menat Vapula, not Nybbas. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:33:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Undead Q. Quick question about Undead. Does bashing on them generate Disturbance? I would say yes, as they don't disturb the Symphony themselves, therefore they must be, in some way, part of it. I'd rule that Zombi's generate no extra disturbance when you kill them, but I'm unsure about Vampires and Mummies. On the other Appendage, I'd bet the *creation* of undead includes the 'kill a human' Disturbance. Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:56:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Undead Q. > Quick question about Undead. > Does bashing on them generate Disturbance? I would say yes, as they > don't disturb the Symphony themselves, therefore they must be, in some > way, part of it. In a similar vein (pun intended), would an Impudite gain Dissonance from offing a vampire, or do undead not count as human for this... > Martin Leuschen > martinl@rice.edu Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:44:40 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... >> The first space-suit, courtesy of Nybbas? > >I menat Vapula, not Nybbas. > >Earl Wajenberg Maybe, but I'd give Jean or Yves credit towards the co-invention of SCUBA as Cousteau has always used it with exploration in mind and most if not all of his career has been aimed at promoting Humanity's awareness of the oceanic environments and our responsiblity as to it's stewardship. A human invention that even Jord might sympathise with occasionally. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:46:21 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Undead Q. >Quick question about Undead. > >Does bashing on them generate Disturbance? I would say yes, as they >don't disturb the Symphony themselves, therefore they must be, in some >way, part of it. > >I'd rule that Zombi's generate no extra disturbance when you kill them, >but I'm unsure about Vampires and Mummies. > >On the other Appendage, I'd bet the *creation* of undead includes the >'kill a human' Disturbance. > I'd say no to all of the above as it can be argued that none of them are intended parts of the Symphonic Composition. If the Symphony doesn't notice their "addition", their subtraction should be equally quiet. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:12:58 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... At 10:10 AM 6/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Actually, if it were sponsered by anyone it would either be someone from >>the Far Marches "Throw off *both* yokes" or Eli "You *can* make a >>difference" or Blandine "Dream big". >> >Ah. Indeed. Obviously I need to be watching it. (First, though, I >need to be where there's a station that shows it at a reasonable hour, >as opposed to 11:30 pm Saturday.) > Well, if you get cable, they'll be on TNT daily, M-F at about 7:00pm in January. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:43:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... At 2:46 PM -0400 6/29/97, Frank Lazar wrote: >>At 09:16 AM 6/27/97 +0300, you wrote: >> >>> >> >>Hmmmm.... If you are a demon and you see an agnel with a light saber and a >>braclett that has a single large multicolored, glowing gem, what do you do? >> >> > My brain is fried today. While I get the light saber, the gem reference >completely flew over me. Now's your chance to embarrass me by giving me the >answer. :) Lensman... It's a Lens for a Lensthing. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:35:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Disturbance Q. Say we have a crazy demon in a clocktower, pegging off passing humans. How long does he have to wait between 'pegs' to avoid the Disturbance stacking. The book isn't terribly clear on this. My kludged proposal : [Current DoD] rounds without causing any Disturbance effectively halves what you've accumulated for stacking purposes. So if said Demon Plugs a human for DoD=12, than waits one minute (12 rounds) before plugging another, the total DoD for that one will be 12 + 6 = 18. If he waited 3 minutes, it would only be DoD 14 or so, and 5+ minutes would essentially clear it out. Toughts? Criticisms? Pipe Bombs? Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:31:00 -3000 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Undead Q. > Does bashing on them generate Disturbance? I would say yes, as they > don't disturb the Symphony themselves, therefore they must be, in some > way, part of it. Well, it almost certainly causes at least SOME, but I'd be inclined to count them as under the "Destroying", rather than strictly "human" - they're part of the Symphony, but not exactly a natural part. (Eg. just +1 per Corporeal Force, not the +10 additional.) I can see a strong argument that Mummies would still get the +10, as those are when the ritual `goes well' and they really just have a new Force and some generally demonic nature kind of grafted on...but my personal belief is that the +10 is largely a result of the release of the soul, and as it's noted that no undead still DOES that, I think the disturbance generated is, as it would be if you killed a snake, just the matter of some Forces being returned to the Symphony... > On the other Appendage, I'd bet the *creation* of undead includes the > 'kill a human' Disturbance. I don't think so, really. Not as they're described, at any rate, as they're NOT `killed' at any stage of the process...`undead' is actually used more aptly in In Nomine than in most systems. The general concept is of "Walking dead" - eg. someone actually dead, the corpse of which has been somehow animated and perhaps even imbued with some degree of personality again. In In Nomine...well, the Zombi Attunement seems to make exactly those, of course, but while those are functionally identical to any other zombi, that seems to be only one method...and starting from a corpse, a zombi is apparently the -BEST- you can get. The actual undead are people who've been through this "black mass" ritual, where you only get a zombi if things go REALLY horribly wrong...so they really don't die, they just trade in the `coherence' of their soul for added power and more time on the corporeal plane. (I say coherence on the comment that it doesn't seem anything is exactly taken from them...it's just that when they die, they just go pft into nothing instead of going somewhere. I DO believe that some of the cause of this is that the ritual specifically injects some demonic nature, which is why you never hear of a `redeemed' Undead working for Heaven - if a Mummy or Vampire really works at it and manages to redeem, what they get for it is a natural death.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:04:01 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for Company/Trouble > > That reminds me of a question: Do the celestials instantly > know each other as another celestial? No. Positively, definitely NOT. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:03:14 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Attunements On Jun 24, 12:59am, zingaro@peak.org wrote: > Subject: IN> Attunements > > Thank you for the lovely answers on Roles. Now, I have a new wrench. > My Impudite [of Haagenti] wants to pick up the Lilim atttunement. > It mentions the gesa/geas in the description -- is the geas part of > the Lilim resonance? Or a side effect of it? The Geas is part of the Lilim Resonance so the Impudite would not get it. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:28:47 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... At 02:46 PM 6/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Hmmmm.... If you are a demon and you see an agnel with a light saber and a >>braclett that has a single large multicolored, glowing gem, what do you do? >> > My brain is fried today. While I get the light saber, the gem reference >completely flew over me. Now's your chance to embarrass me by giving me the >answer. :) > Lensmen. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:01:28 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers > > If a celestial, say, a demon servitor of Kronos, is surrounded > > by a quartz watch, a wind-up clock, a hand-written biography, a > > century-old grandfather clock, an atomic clock and is sitting next to > > the Big Ben does it means he has a +21 modifier to invocate his Demon > > Prince?? > > I'm fairly sure you only get the best modifier available. This is absolutely right... ignore my last post! (I really shouldn't rule on these things without enough sleep...) ;) p. 109 "Unless specified otherwise, only _one_ of these special modifiers can be used per attempt!" - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:10:16 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Separation of cause from effect > If a demon talks a mortal into slaying YRM, is everything cool? Yup. > If a demon casually tosses a pail of oil on a BART platform, hoping to cause > confusion, and someone is later on accidentally pushed in front of the > Richmond line...what's that? Noise at the point of the accident. Which means it only matters if the GM thinks it should. > Is the intent enough to make a connection between demon and deed? Suppose > Tamin is a Shedim currently occupying an elevator repairman (circa 1987). He > tweaks the guy's latent laziness, so he replaces only half the emergency > brakes. This means that sometime, in the vague and distant future (1997) the > elevator will have an accident, have to rely on the brakes, and the two, > worn, unreplaced ones fail...The others are unable to hold it, and it drops. > Certainly, Tamin had mischief in mind, but does the poor bloke suddenly find > every angel in Pasadena knocking on his door because an elevator-full of > mortals died in Tampa Bay? Noise at the point of the accident. Demons love to do stuff that can't be traced to them... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:27:44 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... At 07:50 AM 6/29/97 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, at 12:10:24 ??T, Jeff Miller wrote: >[Tapio Erola wrote:] >>>SF is not dead. >> >>No not dead but different from the way it started. It started with a >>"Gosh, I wonder what's out there," "won't it be grand" and "if there's a >>problem, we can fix it" in the first half of the century. > >Early Heinlein best exemplifies this -- it's escapist literature, as >SF has been accused of being, in that it suggests escape hatches for >problems the mainstream didn't yet recognize as problems (cf "Blowups >Happen"). > Well, that last probably annoyed Jean since nuclear power wasn't supposed to be public yet. I was also thinking of early Clarke. >>In the >>seventies, it started moving toward, insurmountable problems and fear for >>the future. > >This was there all along too, just not as common -- again, the Admiral >provides an example ("Solution Unsatisfactory"). > Yep. And things like _This Perfect Day_ which were inspired by Andre working with Nybs. >>So I have to think that either the Angel of SF fell or became >>really quiet for a while and a demon of Nybbas gained power. > >Works for me. (No Heinlein quote this time, except to note that "Job: >a comedy of justice" is interesting reading for those running a humorous >IN campaign.) > Definatly Kobal influence.... >>In the late >>80's it began turning back around and uplifting SF is once again becomming >>popular. So maybe the Angel of SF was redeemed or maybe Jean let him/her >>become more public once again to start fighting the demon. >> >That'll win. (Did you notice that Tapio didn't actually give a name >to his hypothetical version of the angel?) > That's OK, I have a hard time coming up with names myself. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:25:59 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) > > The secondary but more practical reason is that it opens up a can > > with an infinite number of worms inside of it. > But..but...that's half the fun. {Honestly, John, I feel > compelled to say this - we're all glad you're here. Having a Netrep and > having the potential to get Canon answers to these little tangles is nice, > and something not many games out there are offering...but personally, I do > feel that if the Canon response is going to be, "Gosh, that's just too > complicated", it may be better to just not GIVE one unless someone > specifically asks. In this case, for example, no one had, and, in fact, > we were doing pretty well at sorting out the stickier tangles...and having > a good time doing it. So a Canon "We just don't want to open that can" is > very disconcerting...at least to me. Even with my noted tendancy to > cheerfully ignore Canon and do whatever I want anyway. } That's why it's secondary. =) Meta-attunements and the like are very, very hard to judge. In essence, I'd have to go down the list of _every_ Superior in the game and each of their Attunements and see the ramifications. How each interacts with the Resonance of every Band, etc. (Don't forget about all the new Superiors coming out!) IMO, Letting other Bands take that Attunement cheapens the fact that Balseraphs can have it. Balseraphs are the mightiest of the Fallen, having fallen the furthest, and this is reflected in the very subtle, and very powerful Attunement available from Kronos. If you want to look at another way, Balseraphs can 'lie' to the Symphony so well, that they actually can function as an Angel! How like them! Other Bands don't have the Balseraph 'lying' Resonance which that Attunement is based on. > > BTW, Balseraphs can't take that attunement twice, either. > Heh...I hadn't even thought of that one...can ANY Attunement be > taken `twice'? (Can a Seraph of War pick that up *2 and subtract double > his Corporeal Forces from an opponent's dodge..? Or an Ophanite of War go > TWICE at the beginning of every combat? Or a Cherub of Flowers take TWICE > the damage he heals? (Er...heheh...)) No attunement can be taken twice, but I thought it best to mention it _specifically_ here. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:43:43 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... At 09:20 AM 6/30/97 -0500, you wrote: >Jeff Miller wrote: > > ">SF is not dead. > > "No not dead but different from the way it started. It started with a > "Gosh, I wonder what's out there," "won't it be grand" and "if there's > a problem, we can fix it" in the first half of the century. In the > seventies, it started moving toward, insurmountable problems and fear > for the future." > >Negative, alarming, and gloomy science fiction did not have to wait >for the '70s to be born. The '50s and '60s saw plenty of cautionary >tales about the new threat of nuclear holocaust. Pohl and Kornbluth >invented the dystopia of the megacorporations in the '60s (or maybe >'50s; I'm not sure). > So, it looks like they'be been going toe to toe for a longer time. However, I think that in the really early days, there weren't any angels or demons of SF. Just human invention. It's just that in the early 1900s, SF took a turn toward the extreemly positive and in the late 60s and 70s it took a sharp turn in the other direction. >By the way, for the ultimate SF-IN tie-in, the first science fiction >story in the world (in my opinion) was "Somnium" ("Dream") by the >astronomer Johannes Kepler, in which he describes, with scientific >accuracy that is still pretty good, a trip to the moon. The IN >tie-in is that the motive force to get to the moon is a demon >conjured up by the narrator's mother, who is a witch. (Witches and >demons were not fantasy in Kepler's time and place. He had to >rescue his own mother from being burned as a witch.) The demon >advises the narrator to wrap himself in multiple layers of blankets, >to cushion take-off shock, and to hold damp cloths in front of his >face to protect against the thin air between here and the moon. >The first space-suit, courtesy of Nybbas? > Interesting. Was that before or after the Chech story that introduced the word "robot"? -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:58:47 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers On Jun 23, 7:32pm, Andre Ribeiro wrote: > Subject: IN> Invocation Modifiers > If a celestial, say, a demon servitor of Kronos, is surrounded > by a quartz watch, a wind-up clock, a hand-written biography, a > century-old grandfather clock, an atomic clock and is sitting next to > the Big Ben does it means he has a +21 modifier to invocate his Demon > Prince?? All invocation bonuses are cumulative... a collection like that is _bound_ to attract some attention! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:19:36 -3000 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance Q. > My kludged proposal : [Current DoD] rounds without causing any > Disturbance effectively halves what you've accumulated for stacking > purposes. So if said Demon Plugs a human for DoD=12, than waits one Hmm...I like it conceptually; in play, I'm not sure I'd want the added bookkeeping. Myself, I think I'd keep it more as a conceptual thing...if you're doing it all as part of the same `thing', it builds up; if you actively separate the events, it doesn't. So if the demon sat up there picking people off quickly, it would build...if he waited between them (not just taking aim, but actually breaking off from killing for a moment and starting again...though reloading might qualify), it could be alright. To take the example from the book...the Cherub killing the three muggers is presumably doing it all in one brawl. Goes into the fight, kills one, keeps fighting the other two, gets another, finishes off the third...but isn't for even a moment there NOT working to kill one, or at least taking the actions that risk it (eg. bashing them up against the wall as hard as he can). If he killed one and the other two ran off and he had to give chase, that'd probably qualify as a `break', in my mind... (If the other two ran off and he threw a brick and smashed in the second one's head, that wouldn't, of course..) In both cases, keep in mind that under most circumstances, there's SOME option for a `break' that keeps working towards the goal...but almost any kind is going to have a significant effect on what you're doing. (Eg. with the clocktower demon..well, face it - once one person goes down, the street's going to clear pretty fast. Your "three minutes" is definitely going to cut him down to one kill; my "reloading or pausing for tea" might still give him a chance at one or two more, given the confusion level, but is still going to seriously lower the rate...anyone cutting loose with an uzi in a crowded room had just better be prepared to rack up lots of Disturbance. If the Cherub takes or gets stuck with a pause (on account of them making a run for it), well, at least presumably, the muggers have a chance to get away, which they wouldn't have without that break...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 02:31:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) > No attunement can be taken twice, but I thought it best > to mention it _specifically_ here. Rats. There goes some interesting fun with Proficiency. Please note, however that certain distinctions can be... ;'} Oops da Ogre, stirring up trouble mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 05:57:05 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Yet another Word-bound... >From: Frank Lazar >At 09:16 AM 6/27/97 +0300, you wrote: > >> > >Hmmmm.... If you are a demon and you see an agnel with a light saber and a >braclett that has a single large multicolored, glowing gem, what do you do? > > My brain is fried today. While I get the light saber, the gem reference completely flew over me. Now's your chance to embarrass me by giving me the answer. :)< To be precise:- "a platinum-iridium bracelet carrying, wrist-watch-wise, a lenticular something. It appears to be comprised of thousands - millions - of tiny gems, each of which emit pulsatingly all the colours of the spectrum; it throws out - broadcasting - - a turbulent flood of writhing, polychromate light!" In other words a Lens of Arisia, favourite psionic tool of paladins everywhere. The answer to the question is to ask it how it keeps to the light side of the force while keeping to the code of the lens. [One requires any and all force to be used to protect civilisation the other forbids the use of mental powers to directly harm or in a state of anger]. Then you go celestial and run for hell. Of course Mentor would appear to be a reverse Kyriotate [He has four separate personalities that combine into him], but the arisian and eddorian forms of flesh do seem similar to vessels upto and including the ability to take high caliber bullets without major harm. Adam Dahak@Compuserve.Com "There speaks the sheer folly of cal;low youth; the rashness of an ignorance so abysmal as to be possible only to one of your ephemeral race." Gharlane - Demon Prince of Conspiricy " I shall build an empire and human suffering shall be its foundations and human blood its cement!" Mason/Largo Demon Prince of Renegade Automation "Good, let your anger run through you, soon you will join me on the dark side." Palpitane Cabalim of Baal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:36:05 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tapio Erola Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... > The answer to the question is to ask it how it keeps to the light side of > the force while > keeping to the code of the lens. [One requires any and all force to be used > to protect > civilisation the other forbids the use of mental powers to directly harm > or in a state of > anger]. Then you go celestial and run for hell. Naaah. Don't take that seriously. The toys are just cool props. Something she had had made. I'll be posting the complete version of this word-bound angel sometime soon. At least my interpretation of her. - -- Tapio Erola txr@paju.oulu.fi (No mail to txr@sliver.oulu.fi please) "Never before have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church?" --[Black Adder II] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:27:58 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Invocation Modifiers > > If a celestial, say, a demon servitor of Kronos, is surrounded > > by a quartz watch, a wind-up clock, a hand-written biography, a > > century-old grandfather clock, an atomic clock and is sitting next to > > the Big Ben does it means he has a +21 modifier to invocate his Demon > > Prince?? > > All invocation bonuses are cumulative... a collection like > that is _bound_ to attract some attention! ;) Brain-fry! This is incorrect! You can only use one! Don't answer questions late at night kids! =) =) =) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:45:40 -0400 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... While going through the book one more time, I had some interesting thoughts I thought I would share. 1) In the description of Yves, the rulebook says that Yves doesn't belong to any Choir, and that "It was given to Yves to name God, after God name Yves. Some divine theologians argue that Yves, by giving God a name, created not merely the distinction between Good and Evil but that he created God Himself." Then, in the description of Gabriel, it says, "...she recited the Qu'ran to Mohammed at Yves' instruction... Dominic...declared her heretical and tried to have her exiled from Heaven. Yves and Michael defended her, but she stormed away angrily and has yet to return.... And still those who move against Gabriel find themselves balked by Yves." This just makes you wonder what further purpose Yves has in mind for Gabriel as the war plays itself out, doesn't it? Also, it seems that Dominic is skating on thin ice in the Heavenly Host. If he finds himself "balked by Yves" the one who "name[d] God", then Dominic certainly seems to be in serious danger of being heretical himself, doesn't he? 2) While I liked the description of the Grigori given on this list/digest, the Nephallim have left a bad taste in my mouth. If I'm reading the description of the Grigori right, then *all* the Grigori fell. The Nephallim were children of the Grigori: "Legends say that the children of the Grigori created were... known... as the Nephallim...." Also, the description says, "beyond... the malevolent Nephallim, the Grigori also engendered half-breed children, seemingly human yet part-angel." Has anybody attempted to expand on these Children of the Grigori There is a long description of them on p. 106... but I just wonder: How many Forces do they have? What Songs (if any) are available to them? Do they have any Choir Attunements? 3) Christianity is mentioned several times throughout the text (though, a Christianity I'm not familiar with). This also leads me to wonder: Who was Jesus? Some claim he was the Son of God... is this necessarily true (in game world)? If not, then who was he? And what role does he play in the Symphony? I'll post more thoughts as I think of them.... Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - ------------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - ------------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #233 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.