From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 9 15:57:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29287 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:57:29 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26350 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:19:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:19:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199707091819.NAA26350@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #241 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 9 1997 Volume 01 : Number 241 In this digest: Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party Re: IN> Double Messages Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malaki Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... Re: IN> GenCon Revisited Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party Re: IN> Habbalah question Re: IN> Kyrio/Shedim/Possession vs. Cherub/Djinn/Attraction questions Re: IN> Kyrio/Shedim/Possession vs. Cherub/Djinn/Attraction questions IN> Thoughts/material on Lilith Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) Re: IN> Habbalah question Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party Re: IN> GenCon Revisited Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... Re: IN> The Invisibles? Re: IN> Thoughts/material on Lilith Re: IN> GenCon Revisited IN> Amusing quote (possible adventure seed?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 11:59 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party >> >> >My error: IOU, where U stands for university. I stands for Illuminati. >> >> >You're not classified to know what the O stands for. (I'm not sure that >> >> >anyone short of the ArchDean is. :)) >> >> >> >> If anyone else knew, I suspect it would be me. And she won't tell me, >> >> either.... >> > >> >Actually, if anybody knew, I'd suspect Archangel Beth would (is the >> >Archdean a manifestation of Beth, or vice versa?). >> >> (Yes. O;> ) And yes. > >"Yes on one, no on two." >"Uh, which one was that?" Both, I suspect. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 11:32 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Double Messages >Is anyone else getting double messages, or is it a problem at my end?? I've been getting them too, intermittently. I've been getting them too, intermittently. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 11:54 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party >At 3:52 PM +0000 7/4/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >>> >My error: IOU, where U stands for university. I stands for Illuminati. >>> >You're not classified to know what the O stands for. (I'm not sure that >>> >anyone short of the ArchDean is. :)) >>> >>> If anyone else knew, I suspect it would be me. And she won't tell me, >>> either.... >> >>Actually, if anybody knew, I'd suspect Archangel Beth would (is the >>Archdean a manifestation of Beth, or vice versa?). > >(Yes. O;> ) And yes. > >> I have my guess, but I'm keeping it to myself, so the >>AD's CIB (Cats In Black) don't come after me. > >It's not "online," though agents of disinformation have claimed >such from time to time. You've been known to tell people that they can, if they want, think it's for the "O" in "fnord", too.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:35:33 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malaki > This does bring up the interesting point that Lilith herself should > originally have been something close to human, though since she predates > the exile from Eden, she's still an immortal. (If my vague memories of > the story from childhood are right....) I'd suggest based on this that Abel and Cain are around still, in the Marches most likely, ala Sandman. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:12:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... At 11:09 PM -0700 7/7/97, Alexander Shearer wrote: >>Is this Dictionary a web resource, or a book? Either way, what is >>the ISBN/URL? > > I don't know the ISBN, but it's referred to on p. 204 of your IN >book, in the Primary Sources section. I found it in the infocenter of the >Berkeley main library (Doe). Gustav Davidson _A Dictionary of Angels including the fallen angels_ ISBN 0-02-907052 Barcode: 9 780029 070529 90000> $19.95 for the trade paperback we've got, published by The Free Press A Division of Simon and Schuster Inc. 1230 Avenue of the Americas New York, N.Y. 10020 First Free Press Paperback Edition 1971 Library of COngrewss Catalog Card Number: 66-19757 Printed in the USA, copyright 1994 Simon & Schuster Inc. etc. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:41:22 -0700 From: "Nate Edel" Subject: Re: IN> GenCon Revisited Add another probably... unless I'm remembering wrong, and I've got an event Thurs night, that sounds pretty cool. ---- : Oh, poor thing. Sure thing. Just come up with an Infernal :character, Celestial or Soldier, and let one of us know. So far, other :than you, we have one definite, one probably, and two maybes. :Hopefulyy that tally will improve with everyone returning to their :computers from the holiday weekend. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:07:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) At 11:33 PM -0600 7/7/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> > > Suuuuuuuuure, why not? O;) >> > Actually, thinking about it, it just says the Balseraph >> > can take the Resonance of any Angel...I don't see any reason it couldn't >> > be from among the Fallen. (I'd still say they probably couldn't take the >> > Lilim Resonance, though, because they aren't Angels to start with..) >> Naughty, naughty! It says specifically any _Choir_ of >> Angel (emphasis mine). Whether or not you are willing to call >> the Fallen 'angels', they certainly aren't choirs! > Well...so what if one took the Angelic Resonance, and then picked >up Dissonance according to those rules? Wouldn't they be at risk of >`Falling', logically? You're a twisted person... I suspect that the demon's soul is still twisted enough that it couldn't get any worse -- the demon would just pick up discord, as usual for demons getting into trouble. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:18:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party At 11:40 PM +0000 7/7/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >>>>>My error: IOU, where U stands for university. I stands for Illuminati. >>>>>You're not classified to know what the O stands for. (I'm not sure that >>>>>anyone short of the ArchDean is. :)) >>>> >>>>If anyone else knew, I suspect it would be me. And she won't tell me, >>>>either.... >>> >>>Actually, if anybody knew, I'd suspect Archangel Beth would (is the >>>Archdean a manifestation of Beth, or vice versa?). >> >>(Yes. O;> ) And yes. > >"Yes on one, no on two." >"Uh, which one was that?" First base. >> > I have my guess, but I'm keeping it to myself, so the >> >AD's CIB (Cats In Black) don't come after me. >> >> It's not "online," though agents of disinformation have claimed >> such from time to time. > >Well, that is the first, obvious conclusion. Which means it is >obviously wrong. Bingo. At 11:54 AM -0400 7/8/97, Walter Milliken wrote: >You've been known to tell people that they can, if they want, think it's >for the "O" in "fnord", too.... Oh, right. I like that one almost as much as the real one. Works well. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:33:27 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Habbalah question On Jul 7, 6:28pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: IN> Habbalah question > Do Habbalah get along, or do they snipe at each other mercilessly, > probing for weakness? Or does it depend on the Habbalah in question? I tend to think they get along since they specifically say they have 'disdain for _other_ band of demons' (emphasis mine). > [Hey, it's not a Lilim or Kyrio or Shedite question! It has > nothing to do with Kyrios!] [You're just trying to lull me into a false sense of security... I can sense these things.] }=) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:35:14 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio/Shedim/Possession vs. Cherub/Djinn/Attraction questions > > One point worse than the worst penalty on the Celestial > >Resonance chart. You don't even have a visual reproduction... > >you are _assuming_ that there is a soul there to bond to and > >taking your chances. > > Makes sense. What if the Celestial *knows* it's a celestial in a host? Still the same. You have no direct perception of the Celestial forces and certainly no way to _touch_ them directly. It's sorta like aiming at a person that you are _sure_ is behind a door, but you can't see. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:47:14 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio/Shedim/Possession vs. Cherub/Djinn/Attraction questions > > > >Ok, so what if the part of the Kyrio that went to the Celestial plane comes > >back to some other place on the Corporeal Plane and then the part of the > >Kyrio that was tracked goes to the Celestial Plane? ;> > > Well, even if it's flipping like a see-saw, it's still all > part of the *same* see-saw. The attunement just skews around > to track the part that's in the corporeal realm. > > Mind you, a Kyrio could drive a Djinn nuts with that sort of thing, > I suspect... Heh. Very close to my answer. a) If the Djinn was tracking the physical form, that's all they would get (standard use of the Resonance) b) If they were tracking the _soul_ of the Kyrio, they would home in on the piece they originally found, or the largest chunk on the Corporeal plane if that piece has moved on - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:10:59 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Thoughts/material on Lilith Recent discussion on the list made me check up a couple of memories that I have on Lilith stuff. So, for those who may be interested: a) The entry on "Lilith" from Borges _Book of Imaginary Beings_ - -- "For before Eve was Lilith," we read in an old Hebrew text. This legend moved the English poet Dante Gabriel Rossetti (1828-82) to write the poem "Eden Bower." Lilith was a serpent; she was Adam's first wife and gave him Shapes that coiled in the woods and waters, Glittering sons and radiant daughters. It was later that God created Eve; Lilith, to revenge herself on Adam's human wife, urged Eve to taste the forbidden fruit and to conceive Cain, brother and murderer of Abel. Such is the early form of the myth followed and bettered by Rossetti. Throughout the Middle Ages the influence of the word "layil", Hebrew for "night", gave a new turn to the myth. Lilith is no longer a serpent; she becomes an apparition of the night. At times she is an angel who rules over the procreation of mankind, at times a demon who assaults those who sleep alone or those who travel lonely roads. In popular imagination she is a tall silent woman with long black hair worn loose. - -- b) Eden Bower, by Dante Gabriel Rossetti EDEN BOWER. It was Lilith the wife of Adam: (Eden bower's in flower.) Not a drop of her blood was human, But she was made like a soft sweet woman. Lilith stood on the skirts of Eden; (And O the bower of the hour!) She was the first that thence was driven; With her was hell and with Eve was heaven. In the ear of the Snake said Lilith :-- (Eden bower's in flower.) 'To thee I come when the rest is over; A snake was I when thou wast my lover. 'I was the fairest snake in Eden: (And O the bower and the hour!) By the earth's will, new form and feature Made me a wife for the earth's new creature. 'Take me thou as I come from Adam: (Eden bower's in flower.) Once again shall my love subdue thee; The past is past and I am come to thee. 'O but Adam was thrall to Lilith! (And O the bower and the hour!) All the threads of my hair are golden, And there in a net his heart was holden. 'O and Lilith was queen of Adam! (Eden bower's in flower.) All the day and the night together My breath could shake his soul like a feather. 'What great joys had Adam and Lilith!-- (And O the bower and the hour!) Sweet close rings of the serpent's twining, As heart in heart lay sighing and pining. What bright babes had Adam and Lilith!-- (Eden bower's in flower.) Shapes that coiled in the woods and waters, Glittering sons and radiant daughters. 'O thou God, the Lord God of Eden! (And O the bower and the hour!) Say, was this fair body for no man, That of Adam's flesh thou mak'st him a woman? 'O thou Snake, the King-snake of Eden! (Eden bower's in flower.) God's strong will our necks are under, But thou and I may cleave it in sunder. 'Help, sweet Snake, sweet lover of Lilith! (And O the bower and the hour!) And let God learn how I loved and hated Man in the image of God created. 'Help me once against Eve and Adam! (Eden bower's in flower.) Help me once for this one endeavour, And then my love shall be thine for ever! 'Strong is God, the fell foe of Lilith: (And O the bower and the hour!) Nought in heaven or earth may affright him; But join thou with me and we will smite him. 'Strong is God, the great God of Eden: (Eden bower's in flower.) Over all he made he hath power; But lend me thou thy shape for an hour! 'Lend thy shape for the love of Lilith! (And O the bower and the hour!) Look, my mouth and cheek are ruddy, And thou art cold, and fire is my body. 'Lend thy shape for the hate of Adam! (Eden bower's in flower.) That he may wail my joy that forsook him, And curse the day when the bride-sleep took him. 'Lend thy shape for the shame of Eden! (And O the bower and the hour!) Is not the foe-God weak as the foeman When love grows hate in the heart of a woman? 'Would'st thou know the heart's hope of Lilith? (Eden bower's in flower.) Then bring thou close thine head till it glisten Along my breast, and lip me and listen. 'Am I sweet, O sweet Snake of Eden? (And O the bower and the hour!) Then ope thine ear to my warm mouth's cooing And learn what deed remains for our doing. 'Thou didst hear when God said to Adam:-- (Eden bower's in flower.) "Of all this wealth I have made thee warden; Thou'rt free to eat of the trees of the garden: '"Only of one tree eat not in Eden; (And O the bower and the hour!) All save one I give to thy freewill,-- The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." 'O my love, come nearer to Lilith! (Eden bower's in flower.) In thy sweet folds bind me and bend me, And let me feel the shape thou shalt lend me! 'In thy shape I'll go back to Eden; (And O the bower and the hour!) In these coils that Tree will I grapple, And stretch this crowned head forth by the apple. 'Lo, Eve bends to the breath of Lilith! (Eden bower's in flower.) O how then shall my heart desire All her blood as food to its fire! 'Lo, Eve bends to the words of Lilith!-- (And O the bower and the hour!) "Nay, this Tree's fruit,--why should ye hate it, Or Death be born the day that ye ate it? '"Nay, but on that great day in Eden, (Eden bower's in flower.) By the help that in this wise Tree is, God knows well ye shall be as He is." 'Then Eve shall eat and give unto Adam; (And O the bower and the hour!) And then they both shall know they are naked, And their hearts ache as my heart hath ached. 'Aye, let them hide in the trees of Eden, (Eden bower's in flower.) As in the cool of the day in the garden God shall walk without pity or pardon. 'Hear, thou Eve, the man's heart in Adam! (And O the bower and the hour!) Of his brave words hark to the bravest:-- "This the woman gave that thou gavest." 'Hear Eve speak, yea, list to her, Lilith! (Eden bower's in flower.) Feast thine heart with words that shall sate it-- "This the serpent gave and I ate it." 'O proud Eve, cling close to thine Adam, (And O the bower and the hour!) Driven forth as the beasts of his naming By the sword that for ever is flaming. 'Know, thy path is known unto Lilith! (Eden bower's in flower.) While the blithe birds sang at thy wedding, There her tears grew thorns for thy treading. 'O my love, thou Love-snake of Eden! (And O the bower and the hour!) O to-day and the day to come after! Loose me, love,--give breath to my laughter! 'O bright Snake, the Death-worm of Adam! (Eden bower's in flower.) Wreathe thy neck with my hair's bright tether, And wear my gold and thy gold together! 'On that day on the skirts of Eden, (And O the bower and the hour!) In thy shape shall I glide back to thee, And in my shape for an instant view thee. 'But when thou'rt thou and Lilith is Lilith, (Eden bower's in flower.) In what bliss past hearing or seeing Shall each one drink of the other's being! 'With cries of "Eve!" and "Eden!" and "Adam!" (And O the bower and the hour!) How shall we mingle our love's caresses, I in thy coils, and thou in my tresses! 'With those names, ye echoes of Eden, (Eden bower's in flower.) Fire shall cry from my heart that burneth,-- "Dust he is and to dust returneth!" 'Yet to-day, thou master of Lilith,-- (And O the bower and the hour!) Wrap me round in the form I'll borrow And let me tell thee of sweet to-morrow. 'In the planted garden eastward in Eden, (Eden bower's in flower.) Where the river goes forth to water the garden, The springs shall dry and the soil shall harden. 'Yea, where the bride-sleep fell upon Adam, (And O the bower and the hour!) None shall hear when the storm-wind whistles Through roses choked among thorns and thistles. 'Yea, beside the east-gate of Eden, (Eden bower's in flower.) Where God joined them and none might sever, The sword turns this way and that for ever. 'What of Adam cast out of Eden? (And O the bower and the hour!) Lo! with care like a shadow shaken, He tills the hard earth whence he was taken. 'What of Eve too, cast out of Eden? (Eden bower's in flower.) Nay, but she, the bride of God's giving, Must yet be mother of all men living. 'Lo, God's grace, by the grace of lilith! (And O the bower and the hour!) To Eve's womb, from our sweet to-morrow, God shall greatly multiply sorrow. 'Fold me fast, O God-snake of Eden! (Eden bower's in flower.) What more prize than love to impel thee? Grip and lip my limbs as I tell thee! 'Lo! two babes for Eve and for Adam! (And O the bower and the hour!) Lo! sweet Snake, the travail and treasure,-- Two men-children born for their pleasure! 'The first is Cain and the second Abel: (Eden bower's in flower.) The soul of one shall be made thy brother, And thy tongue shall lap the blood of the other." (And O the bower and the hour!) - -- I think both offer interesting perspectives. Oh, and the Borges is excellent reading in any case. :) Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:51:36 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) On Jul 7, 11:33pm, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malakim) > > > > Suuuuuuuuure, why not? O;) > > > Actually, thinking about it, it just says the Balseraph > > > can take the Resonance of any Angel...I don't see any reason it couldn't > > > be from among the Fallen. (I'd still say they probably couldn't take the > > > Lilim Resonance, though, because they aren't Angels to start with..) > > Naughty, naughty! It says specifically any _Choir_ of > > Angel (emphasis mine). Whether or not you are willing to call > > the Fallen 'angels', they certainly aren't choirs! > Well...so what if one took the Angelic Resonance, and then picked > up Dissonance according to those rules? Wouldn't they be at risk of > `Falling', logically? Nope. Despite the fact that it mimics an Angelic Resonance, it's source is ultimately Demonic and they will generate Discord like any other demon from the Dissonance they garner. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:30:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Habbalah question At 4:33 PM -0400 7/8/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Jul 7, 6:28pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: IN> Habbalah question >> Do Habbalah get along, or do they snipe at each other mercilessly, >> probing for weakness? Or does it depend on the Habbalah in question? > > I tend to think they get along since they specifically >say they have 'disdain for _other_ band of demons' (emphasis >mine). Ah, they're all angels together, and the only ones who know the truth about their mission. Cool. >> [Hey, it's not a Lilim or Kyrio or Shedite question! It has >> nothing to do with Kyrios!] > > [You're just trying to lull me into a false sense of >security... I can sense these things.] }=) [I'll work on a Lilim-Kyrio question later...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:02:54 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party > >>>>>My error: IOU, where U stands for university. I stands for Illuminati. > >>>>>You're not classified to know what the O stands for. (I'm not sure that > >>>>>anyone short of the ArchDean is. :)) > >>>> > >>>>If anyone else knew, I suspect it would be me. And she won't tell me, > >>>>either.... > >>> > >>>Actually, if anybody knew, I'd suspect Archangel Beth would (is the > >>>Archdean a manifestation of Beth, or vice versa?). > >> > >>(Yes. O;> ) And yes. > > > >"Yes on one, no on two." > >"Uh, which one was that?" > > First base. "The duce, you say!" > >> > I have my guess, but I'm keeping it to myself, so the > >> >AD's CIB (Cats In Black) don't come after me. > >> > >> It's not "online," though agents of disinformation have claimed > >> such from time to time. > > > >Well, that is the first, obvious conclusion. Which means it is > >obviously wrong. > > Bingo. Or obviously right, depending on how you look at it. > >You've been known to tell people that they can, if they want, think it's > >for the "O" in "fnord", too.... > > Oh, right. I like that one almost as much as the real one. Works well. Okay, everybody say "fnord" and deny everything; it's the GURPSnet "more Illuminated than thou" thread. What fun - please excuse whilst I get the chips... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:35:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> GenCon Revisited > Add another probably... unless I'm remembering wrong, and I've got an event > Thurs night, that sounds pretty cool. Okay. If you need the services of a reg book, I have mine here and TSR has one at their web page. Provided that you can make it, what would you like to play? Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:47:54 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... Walter Milliken wrote: > > [on the Children of the Grigori] > > > They may be a "third side" in the War. > >> > > You mean that there's actually somebody fighting on the *human's* > >side in the War? ;-) > > The description of the Children certainly gives the impression that they > aren't really on either side. > > For another take on the "third side" concept, look at: > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/IOUInNom.html > [OK, it's a shameless plug... though the IN conversion is strictly > Elizabeth's work.] Having seen the movie "Men in Black" and liked it, I think the Grigori [the Watchers] would make excellent MIBs/third-siders. > Children may have the same resonance as the Watchers -- one which is not > given in the book. I would assume it's something to do with observing > or teaching. The former would fit better with the instinctive dislike > of demons. > > ---Walter My personal opinion on their resonance is, they can see one's Celestial form when you are in a corporeal vessel--Second Sight or Soul Vision, that can even be extended to humans, allowing them to see the shape of the human's soul, thus allowing them to modify how they approach that human, adding to their effectiveness as teachers. {IMO} YMMV [your mileage may vary]. tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:20:32 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> The Invisibles? Dear Austin and List At 09:04 AM 7/7/97 -0500, Austin George Loomis wrote: >On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, at 10:37:48 EAST, Peter Frederick wrote: >[...] >>On the topic of "Secret Human Interferance" I was trying to tinker with a >>version of "The Inivibles" from the comic of the same name created by Grant >>Morrison and published by DC. If it solidifies at all I'll post it, not to >>try to stop anyone else having a hack . > >I was thinking about it myself, but I was going to wait until (a) _Night >Music_ comes out with the expanded rules on Soldiers and (b) whatever >supplement (if any) is going to have the info on Lilith comes along. >(My take on the Invisibles in the IN world, y'see, is that they're the >Soldiers of Freedom.) > Exactly. One of the things that makes the Invisibles most interesting for me is that they are already involved in a War of their own, Dark Invisibles vs Light if you want to put definitions. And while in an IN setting it would seem that the Dark Invisibles are allies (or more likely Lackies) to Hell I don;t think King Mob, Mr 6 and Co would be any more interested in assistance from Heaven than they are in Hell. Hmmm, something starting to simmer here, have to get some other stuff written up to stay ahead of my players then I might give this a hack. Let you all know. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 09:42:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Thoughts/material on Lilith Partly because of this mailing list, I've done a lot of searches concerning Lilith on the Web. One of the best finds was an essay by Eliezar Segal at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/950206_Lilith.html I think there are three basic strands to the Lilith story: 1) Lilith is a demon of the night and mistress of the lilim, a succubus-like figure, classic fantasy femme fatale. This strand goes way back into time immemorial. 2) Lilith is Adam's first wife, who quarreled with him over who should be dominant and ran away to join the demons. This was invented in the early middle ages, so far as I can tell, by the anonymous author of the "Alphabet of Ben Sira," but it became very popular and was widely circulated by Cabbalists and fantasiists ever since. 3) Lilith is the serpent in the Garden of Eden. There is no story connected with this, at least until Rosetti's 19th-century poem, but the serpent is painted with a woman's face, and sometimes with a woman's body, mermaid-like, many times in late medieval and Renaissance art. Michelangelo's picture of the Temptation of Adam and Eve, on the ceiling of the Cistine chapel, is a good example. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:34:55 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> GenCon Revisited On Jul 7, 12:02pm, Donald G Bixler wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> GenCon Revisited > > > Well, if no one else is going to do one, my wife and I may do > > > one Thursday night in our hotel room. It would be demon-preferred. If > > > you are interested, please email me (mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) or my wife > > > (mudmh10@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu). We are currently arguing over who gets stuck > > > Gming; it may end up with the two of us con-Gming. Rats, I want to do IOU with Walter from 8-12... fortunately (or unfortunately) I didn't get my registration off in time so I have _no_ idea if I'm getting into that session. Character should be winging your way any minute now! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:58:53 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Amusing quote (possible adventure seed?) A goody-two-shoes treacle seemd to flow sluggishly through [Heritage USA], and I think it was making Dorothy a little crazy. She kept tugging on my coat sleeve and whispering that we should go behind a Coke machine or in a mop closet or someplace and "pet." They must have this problem a lot at Heritage USA because all the Coke machines were right out in the middle of rooms and the mop closets were locked. We tried a stairwell, but it had a floor-to-ceiling window opening to the hotel lobby. P.J. O'Rourke (Holidays in Hell) [He goes on to talk about the place was driving them crazy and tempting them into all seven of the deadly sins...] ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #241 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.