From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jul 19 00:35:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05182 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:35:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00883 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 22:33:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 22:33:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199707190333.WAA00883@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #250 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, July 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 250 In this digest: IN> Shedim POV Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Moral Decisions Re: IN> Back to celestial populations again.... Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Moral Decisions Re: IN> Malakim of Creation IN> Moral Decisions IN> Word Silliness IN> Gabriel and Dominic IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Malakim of Creation IN> nomine.html (fwd) Re: IN> Moral Decisions Re: IN> Back to celestial populations again.... Re: IN> Back to celestial populations again.... Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Proficiency and Numinous Corpus Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Shedim POV Re: IN> Moral Decisions Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: IN> Items and Age Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Re: Gaby and Dominic (Re: IN> Celestial Age) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:43:06 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Shedim POV > > I have no plans on dropping Shedim into my current campaign, except one > historically. I have trouble getting myself to think about them in > something approaching a rational point of view--even a psychotically > rational POV. Here's one that works for me: All those humans? Not even really alive, dontchathink? Just suits of clothes to put on or take off when they get dirty. 'course, part of the fun is getting them dirty.... HA-HA-HA-HA! Shit. The most is, get this now, the most fun is they think _they_ thought of it! Is that a riot? HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! It's all a fuckin' game, man. If I get them to off themselves afterwards, I win. If they start doin' it on their own, double points! Shedim have the same attitude toward their hosts that vandalizers have for anything in their vicinity. The typical punk might rob a house, but some smash things while in there for the fun of it, or take a dump in the middle of the living room. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:09:18 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation > > I think that this is closer to what they intended in the rules and brings > it closer to a couple of old martial arts movies I've seen. Jackie Chan, Malak of Eli! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:12:47 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Moral Decisions On Jul 17, 5:47pm, Walter Milliken wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Moral Decisions > >> "You two are both disgusting -- okay, so you can do what you want to > >> the humans, but don't you *dare* damage the rainforests!" > >> > >> (Other two demons look at each other, sigh, and mutter, "Habbalah. > >> He still thinks he's working for Jordi.") > > > > Hey, wouldn't this a cool eco-terrorist? Do whatever you > >have to to save the trees, including murder, destruction, mayhem > >and ruined lives! }=) > > So how is this different from Jordi's servitors...? Ummmm... a Habbalah might enjoy the destruction more? Okay, so I can't come up with a difference! Hmph! O=) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:15:27 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Back to celestial populations again.... > I'm still sticking with about a 1/10,000 ratio -- at that rate, a lot of > smaller places in the US won't even rate *one* celestial, much less a > pack of them on both sides. My main problem is that I don't want all > the action concentrated mostly in the cities/seats of power -- to me, > *that* violates the source material, too. Ah, but you get the troublemaker/troubleshooter syndrome to help you. Demons cause problems in town A for some nefarious purpose, Angels arrive to deal with Demons, more Demons arrive to ensure long-term plans evolve correctly, Angels establish tether to keep eye on Demons, etc. Even small towns could have stuff like this happen! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:18:52 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation > Well, suppose the player is in the office of Demonic Arts. The MoE gets > into a Situation, and grabs a bust off a table to use as a weapon. The GM > has predetermined that the bust is hollow papier-mache, weighing an ounce. > It isn't about to hurt any mildly healthy sparrow. Perhaps I'm trying to be > too realistic, but I'm not going to allow that hollow bust to be used as > even a weapon/1 any more than I'd allow the MoE to pick up a sheet of paper > and use it to give paper-cuts/1. The actual maneuver, which the Malak would recognize immediately upon picking up the bust, is to smash it over the guys head, temporarily blinding him and then giving him god-almightiest-kick where it will do the most damage. ;) Need a new weapon after that, though. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:11 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Moral Decisions " Ummmm... a Habbalah might enjoy the destruction more? Okay, so I can't come up with a difference! Hmph! O=)" That's actually one of the things I enjoy most about the Habbalah. While the other bands fulfill the roles of demon-as-tempter, demon-as-liar, etc...the Habbalah are the most apt depiction of demon-as-tormentor-of-the-guilty, prodding the sinners in the various lakes o'fire. Dante's kind. Hmm...anyone thought about writing up the Malebranche from the Inferno as a band type? Or will that sort of thing be in the DemPG? yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:32:30 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation Just out of curiousity - How many GMs give their Malakim of Creation the attunement of whatever other Archangel their working for? Which archangel is popular for Malakim of Creation to work for? Just in it for the dangling participles, SeanMike - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:43:06 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Moral Decisions >>>So how is this different from Jordi's servitors...?<<< Jordi's Servitors won't engage in gratuitous destruction just for the sake of getting back at humans. Earth First! (tree-spiking, pouring sugar in the gas tanks of construction vehicles, etc.) is their style, and under certain circumstances, they might be willing to kill people, but hurting people *unnecessarily* would not be "clean and without pain". - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:46:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Meera Barry Subject: IN> Word Silliness From: "Nathaniel Eliot" > (At times I wonder if name really *is* the > only thing seperating Dominic and Asmodeus.) I keep having this thought... See, when you share a Word, there's a principle attached. I keep thinking of it as in "The Dark Crystal" -- mystics and skeksis. In In Nomine, it would be that you can't hurt the other person with your Word. You're linked through the Symphony. When something happens to the other half of your Word, you are also affected (in a congruent, if not exactly equal manner.) For the preservation of the Word, of course. Pawns of the Symphony. Heh. Someone else (sorry -- didn't catch who, but it's a related note anyway, and I hadn't expected anything more from this message) said in regards to Feng Shui combat in comparison to and in In Nomine: > any flamboyant and interesting way of performing an action is no more > difficult than a mundane way of performing the same action, provided that > no benefit is gained. Now, mixing Mayfair's _Underground_ with In Nomine is about as fun, too. I've been seeing these special suites of Malakim soldiers, under Michael, fighting against Vapula in the Final Days, worried about Celestial "paste..." (Somehow, I can't see servants of Novalis chowing down at Tastee Ghoul.) \\ Mb \\-----------------------------------------------mabarry@abwam.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:43:05 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Gabriel and Dominic >>>All, well now the problem has more to do with philosophy than game mechanics, doesn't it? An easy out for some of us, but what if you do happen to believe in absolute Truth?<<< Do you believe that *everything* is an absolute Truth? A Seraph's resonance, for instance, will simply not determine whether or not "Men In Black" is a good movie. And it won't determine that if a Seraph applies his resonance to someone who says "MIB was a good movie" or "MIB sucks." All it will tell the Seraph is whether or not the speaker is expressing his opinion honestly. Unlike applying it to someone who says "OJ Simpson was guilty", where a check digit of 6 would tell the Seraph whether or not OJ *was* in fact guilty. Some statements can be objectively true or false, others are opinions and cannot be anything else, since there isn't an objective Symphonic standard to determine the quality of a movie. . . So for the situation between Dominic and Gabriel. . . if Gabriel is actually guilty of acting contrary to God's will (whether or not *she* believes she is), Dominic could find that out. But if she's simply guilty of acting in a manner *Dominic* disapproves of, his resonance won't necessarily tell him whether or not God agrees with him.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:43:04 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy For some reason, I keep finding myself wanting to defend Dominic. I guess it's because so many people seem to have a knee-jerk negative reaction against "Judgment". >>>PR, and the name of the Superior that will track down your ass if you screw your side over. (At times I wonder if name really *is* the only thing seperating Dominic and Asmodeus.)<<< Not even remotely. (And I realize you were probably being tongue-in-cheek, so pardon me for using this comment as a springboard to go off a little rant. ) As harsh as he may be, Dominic is also *fair*. Contrary to what some people seem to believe, Dominic does not pursue angels for the sheer pleasure of pulling their wings off. He does not *enjoy* convicting members of the Host. A lot of In Nomine GMs seem to be using Dominic as an indiscriminate Heavenly bad guy. "Oh oh, Servitors of Judgment, that means we're all gonna get hauled in if we say 'boo'..." It seems that several other notes about Dominic, such as the fact that his Servitors (and thus by implication, Dominic) may not inflict a punishment greater than the crime, or stand by while the innocent are punished unfairly, are being commonly overlooked. In other words, Servitors of Dominic could just as easily be defense lawyers as prosecutors. A Servitor of Dominic could even defend someone he knows to be guilty! He would not be trying to get the person off, of course - -- but he'd ensure that all the defendant's Constitutional rights (or the equivalent, based on the venue) were observed, and he'd work hard to prevent the defendant from receiving a more severe punishment than he deserves (doing hard time for shoplifting, for instance.) I think of Dominic's Inquisitors (and remember that not all angels of Judgment are assigned the task of policing the Host, some have other responsibilities....like defending the innocent) as the IAD (Internal Affairs Division) for the Host. Just as many cops despise IAD officers and consider them to be "buddy-f***ers", many angels probably have animosity towards angels of Judgment....yet without them, who would root out the bad apples? If no one stands in judgment over the Host, who's going to tell an angel that he's not following God's plan? Would you want a police department with no internal monitoring, no external oversight committee? Since it's been proven that angels are quite fallible, it makes no more sense to let angels -- with a much greater responsibility -- go without any kind of policing either. Now, some of Dominic's personal obsessions -- such as Gabriel -- may call his objectivity and fairness to question. One can certainly argue that Dominic is no more imperfect than any other being, so even he is capable of making mistakes. But this does NOT mean he's a petty, vindictive tyrant with no regard for the rights of anyone else. Every time Dominic passes judgment on an angel, he has to feel the weight of that responsibility. He certainly knows that if he goes around consigning Servitors to damnation for every transgression, he will lose all respect and moral authority in the eyes of the Host. Dominic is unyielding, uncompromising, and sometimes completely arbitrary. However, he is still an *angel*. He does not act with malevolent intent or out of personal self-interest, as Asmodeus does. He wants the best for Heaven and Earth, as much as any other Archangel, he just has a very different idea of how that should be accomplished. For him, it means not tolerating the slightest amount of corruption. - -David (who thinks assigning oneself a Choir and a Superior is silly, but if I had to, I'd say I have a certain resonance for Elohim of Judgment....) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:04:21 CDT From: U09549@UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation SeanMike asked: >How many GMs give their Malakim of Creation the attunement of whatever >other Archangel their working for? Which archangel is popular for Malakim >of Creation to work for? Personally I haven't given the attunement of the "other" Archangel they are working for. I may eventually, but I made it clear up front that it would be harder for him to earn those attunements and distinctions from "other" Archangels. What Archangel is my MoE serving? Gabriel. Most of my players tend to gravitate towards the more militant Archangels. Except for my Ofanim of Janus player. This leads to great interactions about "The Man with The Plan" in game. Oscar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:09 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation >> I think that this is closer to what they intended in the rules and brings >> it closer to a couple of old martial arts movies I've seen. > > Jackie Chan, Malak of Eli! Scarier still, Saotome Ranma, Malakite of Eli. He's already got a spare vessel.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 14:33 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation >How many GMs give their Malakim of Creation the attunement of whatever >other Archangel their working for? I would allow it, but charge the usual 5 points for an additional Choir Attunement. (I think this may be canon, too.) > Which archangel is popular for Malakim >of Creation to work for? I'd look first at Eli's allies and associates, also look at anyone who considers Eli allied or associated -- they'd be more inclined to take on a servitor of Creation. A Malakite might also be interested in working for Michael or Gabriel, since their servitors tend to see a lot of action. David, too, maybe. Laurence is probably too inflexible for a Malakite of Eli to stand working for, and Dominic is right out, of course. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:19:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: IN> nomine.html (fwd) I found this review on the net and though it would be of interest to folks on the list. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:22:02 -0400 In Nomine Steve Jackson Games Incorporated, 1997 _________________________________________________________________ What you get/need In Nomine $24.95 _________________________________________________________________ Concept - 6 Heaven and hell. God and Satan. Angels and Demons. The forces of good and evil do battle here on earth! The nifty bit is: the game is designed so the players can be either the diabolical forces of the infernal abyss or the winged knights of God. If you're looking for an epic struggle of good versus evil you've got it on a cosmic scale in In Nomine! The game was translated from the French role-playing game In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas which were actually two separate books. _________________________________________________________________ Character Creation - 5 Developing a character in the game is fairly straight-forward. A character is given a certain amount of forces based on their being (Celestial, Human, Mummy, etc.) in which all their stats and spending points are based off. Generation has a bit of a White Wolf feel to it, what with all the types of angels and demons and each of their special abilities based off of which intermediate (Archangel or Prince) they serve. This feeling is further enhanced by the popular coloring system for stats. Only this time the player doesn't fill in dots, they fill in one to six bars around a circle of each of the three main stats. Beyond the stats character creation is relatively limited. You pay for a few starting powers, celestial beings pay for a body to inhabit, and one or two skills are added in after that. Most of the game seems more focused on role-playing, plot development, and character interaction than constant skill checks. Which, while admirable, is rather odd, considering the game is about a war. Actually the largest problem I have with the character creation is covered in the Writing portion of this review. _________________________________________________________________ Playability - 5 In Nomine uses a system very similar to the West End Games D6 System (reviewed elsewhere on this page and popularized in the Star Wars Roleplaying Game) with a bit of a twist, and punnish name. The most common die roll in the game is the d666 die roll. Three dice are used, with one die being a different color as a "check digit" for the measure of success or failure. Also added in this die roll is the "Intervention" rule. When a player rolls 111 or 666 one of the principal powers in the celestial war (God or Satan) puts their two cents in. Really, it's just another way of giving players critical successes or failures, but it's kind of cute. Rolls of any sort are fairly limited throughout the game, most of the rolls are contests of abilities or powers than anything else. But then there's always that chance that God or Satan will dip their hand into the pot and stir things up a bit (111 or 666 roll, remember?)! _________________________________________________________________ Writing - 4 The writing is quite well done, and there's a really nifty story at the beginning of the book. However, the layout is a bit hap-hazard, and the index is sparse. Character creation becomes a game of "find the page" and can be a real turn off for the game. However, jumping back and forth between one book is always easier than jumping back and forth between two books in French! Also the "Primary Sources" portion of the book lists some great books and films to just take in if you're at all interested in the subject. _________________________________________________________________ Highs - Centers around a classic theme. Very balanced gameplay. Really cool introductory story. Great artwork. Lows - Sparse index. Lot of page turning in character creation. Can be a bit hard to follow in parts. Final Call - The only decent angels vs. demons game out there! 5 _________________________________________________________________ -Shadow Sprite ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:13 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Moral Decisions >> >> "You two are both disgusting -- okay, so you can do what you want to >> >> the humans, but don't you *dare* damage the rainforests!" >> >> >> >> (Other two demons look at each other, sigh, and mutter, "Habbalah. >> >> He still thinks he's working for Jordi.") >> > >> > Hey, wouldn't this a cool eco-terrorist? Do whatever you >> >have to to save the trees, including murder, destruction, mayhem >> >and ruined lives! }=) >> >> So how is this different from Jordi's servitors...? > > Ummmm... a Habbalah might enjoy the destruction more? >Okay, so I can't come up with a difference! Hmph! O=) Interestingly enough, I have an NPC Habbalite of Fate who's an ex-servitor of Jordi. She used to roam the American West (in the mid 19th century) in a rattlesnake vessel, biting people who were messing up the countryside. Now she's graduated to bigger and better things -- keeping the unworthy out of Heaven.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:19 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Back to celestial populations again.... >> I'm still sticking with about a 1/10,000 ratio -- at that rate, a lot of >> smaller places in the US won't even rate *one* celestial, much less a >> pack of them on both sides. My main problem is that I don't want all >> the action concentrated mostly in the cities/seats of power -- to me, >> *that* violates the source material, too. > > Ah, but you get the troublemaker/troubleshooter syndrome to >help you. Demons cause problems in town A for some nefarious >purpose, Angels arrive to deal with Demons, more Demons arrive >to ensure long-term plans evolve correctly, Angels establish >tether to keep eye on Demons, etc. Even small towns could have >stuff like this happen! That's fine, but with a limited number of Earthly servitors, a Superior's best strategy is to concentrate on only those activities that affect large numbers of people. Following that notion out to its logical conclusion, nearly all the demons in the US should be in Washington DC, state capitals, and major corporation headquarters -- you get more bang for you buck corrupting people there. I don't like this result -- I want demons out there corrupting Joe the baker in Timbuktu, Arkansas. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:01 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Back to celestial populations again.... >> The rate of advancement of PCs is the main drawback to this theory -- >> they'll gain Forces fairly rapidly, I suspect. (Our games haven't been >> going on long enough for me to get a feel for how players are likely to >> treat cp awards.) One can argue that this is a consequence of >> front-line Earth duty, which is fine, but it means the PCs are scaling >> the food chain pretty fast, relative to most celestials. I'm not sure >> I'm happy with this. > >Remember - they are Heroes. It's a symptom of every RPG - most >games, whether they like it or not, are cinematic. The PCs are >destined for great things. I've never been fond of this excuse, but there is some logic to it.... >> For me, it depends on the size of the city. I'm figuring a population >> of maybe 100-200 celestials in eastern Massachusetts, about 60 in Boston >> proper. This means that our groups are maybe 10-20% of the angels in >> the immediate Boston area. That gives me some room to bring in >> "unknown" celestial NPCs fairly easily. But those other people still >> have plenty of territory of their own to cover. > >Sounds good - I'd say about 2/5 Angelic, 3/5 Demonic, with the vast >majority of the Demons being 7 Force. Actually, I'm running Boston as a bit of an angelic stonghold, at the moment -- the split is about 50/50, but the angels have a slight upper hand due to the current state of human society there (destruction of the Combat Zone, for one). Needless to say, the demons are hiding out and looking for opportunities to turn the tables.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:44:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy > For some reason, I keep finding myself wanting to defend Dominic. I > guess it's because so many people seem to have a knee-jerk negative > reaction against "Judgment". > > >>>PR, and the name of the Superior that will track down your ass if you > screw your side over. (At times I wonder if name really *is* the > only thing seperating Dominic and Asmodeus.)<<< > > Not even remotely. (And I realize you were probably being tongue-in-cheek, > so pardon me for using this comment as a springboard to go off a little > rant. ) > > As harsh as he may be, Dominic is also *fair*. Contrary to what some people > seem to believe, Dominic does not pursue angels for the sheer pleasure of > pulling their wings off. He does not *enjoy* convicting members of the > Host. Sometimes, I sort of see Dominic as the judge from Picket Fences (his name escapes me at the moment.) A gruff old bastard who occasionally yells at everyone to get out of his courtroom, but completely fair, and not one who is going to condemn the innocent or enjoys persecuting the weak. The guilty, on the other hand, feel the full weight of the Law. Although I seriously doubt Dominic would feel bad about convicting the Guilty - after all, he is Mr. Seraph, and if they're guiltly, they're GUILTY. The bit about Dominic is that he upholds the Law, and to the players (mine at least) this is sort of like, "Uh, oh, now we can't go and borrow Dad's car and drive like a couple of hellions all over Creation, or throw a huge party downstairs in the lower reaches of Heaven. Worse, now we gotta go clean up our rooms and take out the trash." He sort of embodies the nuns with the rulers, the tough cop who doesn't put up with the jive talk, the old judge sitting on the bench trying to determine if someone is guilty or not. Dominic is a far cry from Evil or Bad. He is not Asmodeus, because we already HAVE an Asmodeus and the universe really doesn't need two. But he is an Authority Figure (tm), with the authority to make sure there isn't no horseplay and things get done and no one gets hurt. Therefore, the PCs aren't too hot on him and his way of doing things. This makes it easier to picture Dominic as the absolute opposite of Eli. Eli is a total lack of authority figure and centralized administration. He tells his servitors to "Go out, have fun, throw that party, drive like a loon." I can certainly see why Dominic would want to get rid of him and chop up his Word and give it to more 'deserving' angels. Don't you remember your parents pointing out people who were bad influences? Eli could be easily seen as a Major Bad Influence on the angels of heaven, where they're disrupting procedure and there's just too much goofiness going on all the way around. Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Computer Systems Consultant III Medical Center Information Technology Desktop Applications Team Current Quote: "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. "Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." --Professor Robert Silensky of California University ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:58:55 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation At 09:09 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >> I think that this is closer to what they intended in the rules and brings >> it closer to a couple of old martial arts movies I've seen. > > Jackie Chan, Malak of Eli! > Sounds good to me. Though I was thinking of some of the older movies. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:19:15 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Proficiency and Numinous Corpus On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:54:20 -0600 (MDT), Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Well, yes..I said that, I believe, though I may have >forgotten...regardless, the point to that is that getting a relic sword is >a significant expense, even over NC (3:1 strikes me as significant, >anyway..) Though they both use essence, which is a significant disadvantage to both. Maybe another item to throw into the comparison is a talisman sword, which requires no preparation round, no essence expense, but confers up to +6 weapon skill. > The way I read it, you can invoke the Proficiency and strike with >a sword in the same turn..but since invoking any power comes on the same >step, you CAN'T invoke a Song and Attunement simultaneously. So, to use >Proficiency with a sword, you just pull your sword out and have at 'em; >one turn, pow. To use it with Claws, you first Sing up your NC; that's an >action, end of turn. THEN you can start using Proficiency and having at >them; two turns. Yep. Now that I double check, the Artifact Fiery Sword takes a round of preparation just like NC does. But a talisman sword doesn't. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:54:21 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation At 08:32 PM 7/17/97 +0500, you wrote: >> I realize I'm not following the exact wording of the attunement, but the >> exact wording lets you pick up a wet-noodle/6 or for that matter a >> mote-of-dust/6. I'm just not going to go there. I think my solution is fair >> to the player. > >I say, ask the player to explain to you how he's going to hurt >someone with whatever he's picked up. And if he can give you an >answer... not necessarily a realistic answer, or even a sane answer, >but just an answer... then let him do it. > Yeah, you could shove the wet-noodle up the Demon's nostrel and hope he suckes it into his lung.... Actually, I would nix the wet-noodle bit from the outset. No rules needed. Though given enough time, the MoE could so a MacGuyver. Hmmm.... MacGuyver as a MoE.... Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:19:18 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Shedim POV On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:43:06 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: > Here's one that works for me: All those humans? Not >even really alive, dontchathink? Just suits of clothes to put >on or take off when they get dirty. 'course, part of the fun >is getting them dirty.... HA-HA-HA-HA! Shit. The most is, >get this now, the most fun is they think _they_ thought of it! >Is that a riot? HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! It's all a fuckin' game, >man. If I get them to off themselves afterwards, I win. If >they start doin' it on their own, double points! > > Shedim have the same attitude toward their hosts that >vandalizers have for anything in their vicinity. The typical >punk might rob a house, but some smash things while in there >for the fun of it, or take a dump in the middle of the living >room. Thanks. That helps, especially if the Shedite is doing it for some reason that makes sense for his Superior. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:34:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Moral Decisions At 10:58 AM -0400 7/18/97, IQJason@aol.com wrote: >" Ummmm... a Habbalah might enjoy the destruction more? Okay, so I can't come >up with a difference! Hmph! O=)" Habbalah have the tattoos. >That's actually one of the things I enjoy most about the Habbalah. While the >other bands fulfill the roles of demon-as-tempter, demon-as-liar, etc...the >Habbalah are the most apt depiction of demon-as-tormentor-of-the-guilty, >prodding the sinners in the various lakes o'fire. Dante's kind. Except that they've gotten a little turned around on who the "sinners" are -- not those who do evil, but those who are weak... (Well, obviously they're weak because they're evil, right?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:57:37 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation At 12:31 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote: > True, although the most useful idea from Feng Shui (which absolutely >ROCKS guys) for In Nomine (which ROCKS too, don't get me wrong) G.M.s, or >for any G.M. running a rules-low but somewhat cinematic game, is that any >flamboyant and interesting way of performing an action is no more >difficult than a mundane way of performing the same action, provided that >no benefit is gained. In Nomine combat is not too complex and is >reasonably fast moving. It can be spiced up without losing speed by >allowing dramatic maneuvers and actions provided that nothing more is >desired as a result than would be gained from a simple action. Never let >a player just say "I attack". Make him describe the action even if the >rules don't accomodate his deeds perfectly - then just roll as normal >to >resolve the assault without penalising him for flamboyance. > I'm going to have to find Feng Shui.... I like that. I *really* like that. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:33:16 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Items and Age > I agree. Not only does it make more sense, but the other way is just > *way* too complex. If the Essence is limited to use by Songs in the > artifact, let it be divided up any way the user needs; he just can't > draw it out for some other use. (BTW, this is exactly the way GURPS > handles "dedicated Powerstones" in magic, and there doesn't seem to be > any problem with that.) I have rapidly changed my point of view on this one! ;) Relics have an Essence pool usable for the Song. By my new way of thinking, all the Songs in the same Relic share the same Essence pool (regardless of its status as a reliquary). That's one of the reasons that having multiple Songs in a Relic will be cheaper than having them in separate Relics. The rule that _all_ the Essence in the Relic is used up for any use of any Song in it will still apply, though. (This won't touch the Essence in the Reliquary side of a dual artifact unless it's needed, of course!) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:59:20 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Malakim of Creation On Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:04:21 CDT, U09549@UICVM.UIC.EDU wrote: >What Archangel is my MoE serving? Gabriel. Most of my players tend to >gravitate towards the more militant Archangels. Except for my Ofanim >of Janus player. This leads to great interactions about "The Man with >The Plan" in game. Just FWIW, my take has been that a player's Archangel orders him to serve some other Archangel, and generally all the PCs serve the Archangel(s) appropriate to the task they're assigned. IOW, the GM says, "Ok, your Archangels have all assigned you to work for Novalis this month." I pick Novalis just to scare the hell out of my own players. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:37:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Gaby and Dominic (Re: IN> Celestial Age) At 7:31 PM +0500 7/17/97, James Rand wrote: >> Now, if there's no Truth about which *opinion* is right, all a 6 will >> tell you is: "This is opinion, as much as whether _Men In Black_ was >> a terrific movie or not." > >All, well now the problem has more to do with philosophy than game >mechanics, doesn't it? An easy out for some of us, but what if you do >happen to believe in absolute Truth? Even the game-mechanics say that some things don't have absolute Truth. < I.e., O:::) > Maybe the absolute Truth is that Gaby *was* wrong! But that persecuting her for following orders is equally wrong! What do two wrongs in Heaven make? Politics. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #250 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.