From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Aug 3 00:10:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22614 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:10:00 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA06389 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:30:08 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:30:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199708030330.WAA06389@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #274 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, August 2 1997 Volume 01 : Number 274 In this digest: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Saminga and the Pharoahs IN> Know Your Diabolicals 15 Christopher IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Marc the Smuggler IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music IN> Re: Know your Diabolicals 15: Christopher IN> Adventure seed: Not my fault! Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music IN> Dominic, Christianity, and the Universe Re: IN> Andrealphus the Lover Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Religious Patrons IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 11:27:08 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy At 03:17 PM 7/21/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>>>Actually, I haven't seen ANYONE make him out to be petty. >Vindictive, yes - that's his job.<<< > >Some people have suggested Dominic is persecuting Eli and Gabriel because >of a personal grudge, and that he went after Michael for similar reasons. I >see him as being more impersonal than that. I don't. Dominic has his point of view. All others are heresies. >>>>Kind of implies? I don't see it...what standard do you see being kind >of implied?<<< > >See the example that followed. If they have no standard laid down for them, >then why bother including that dissonance rule? "I'll punish 'em however I >see fit...that's MY standard." Doesn't work for Servitors of Judgment. >Exactly what standard they're using is up the GM-- if you want to say they >carry out capital punishment for any crime they see, you can do that. That >doesn't make much sense to me, though...I see Servitors of Judgment more as >old-style Texas Rangers than Judge Dredds. Mm. I see them more as Hanging Judges. >>>>So...what, then? A stolen candy bar for a stolen candy bar? Or do you >go ahead in good Old Testament style and take the one step back from the >head, chopping off the hand?<<< > >I'm not a Biblical scholar, but I don't think the Old Testament advocates >cutting off a hand for stealing, either. Babylonian law. An eye for an eye, and all that. Actually, it's misquoted pretty often. Rich people could just pay for lost eyes. >(Neither does the Quran, >incidentally....that charming law in some Islamic countries is quite >contrary to Islam.) "Make the punishment fit the crime" means equal >severity for the injury you caused. Stealing a candy bar from someone >doesn't harm them as much as cutting off their hand, so that wouldn't be an >appropriate punishment. For such a trivial theft, making restitution and >apologizing would probably satisfy a Servitor of Judgment. Malakim? >Of course, >subsequent offenses would be dealt with more harshly....you're supposed to >*learn* from your punishment. Which is a problem with Hell, but that's another subject. >>>>Well, he accepted it the one time God Himself stepped in, yes. The time >Yves and Michael stepped in, on the other hand, he didn't...<<< > >Dominic is NOT still persecuting Gabriel for the founding of Islam-- he's >accepted that. He's investigating her now because of all the things she's >done *since* leaving Heaven. And who's responsible for the situation she was in when she left? >>>>and he judges according to HIS standard, not necessarily the prevailing >one.<<< > >His standard IS the prevailing one in Heaven-- he's Judgment! God gave him >that authority. He just gets reminded occasionally that this authority >isn't absolute... He needs it. Attempting to cast out the two most major warrior Angels from Heaven, while you're still in war, well, it seems to lack what one would call... good judgement. >His Servitors, on the other hand, enforce both Dominic's standard and the >local laws...the former taking precedence over the latter. They also follow their own personal moralities, something inconsistant with such a strict master. >>>>As I said. Among other things, he has `inferred' that >Christianity is the way to go, and taken some considerable efforts to that >end.<<< > >Dominic is a "Christian" Archangel, but like a Christian judge, he's >capable of making rulings independent of his personal beliefs. Otherwise, >he'd be charging every angel that *hasn't* accepted Christianity with >heresy. I doubt he has that kind of time. No, he'll only go after famous angels to make them an example. >>>>Again; never called him a `rogue' judge. Just a scary one, and a >fanatical one.<<< > >Yes...but what makes him really scary is that he's usually right! Just because he's right often doesn't mean that he's usually right. His screw-ups have been major, you'll recall. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 11:26:58 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy At 11:43 AM 7/18/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >For some reason, I keep finding myself wanting to defend Dominic. I >guess it's because so many people seem to have a knee-jerk negative >reaction against "Judgment". > >>>>PR, and the name of the Superior that will track down your ass if you >screw your side over. (At times I wonder if name really *is* the >only thing seperating Dominic and Asmodeus.)<<< > >Not even remotely. (And I realize you were probably being tongue-in-cheek, >so pardon me for using this comment as a springboard to go off a little >rant. ) > >As harsh as he may be, Dominic is also *fair*. Contrary to what some people >seem to believe, Dominic does not pursue angels for the sheer pleasure of >pulling their wings off. He does not *enjoy* convicting members of the >Host. Neither does he need any real justification for it. There's a reason he's called an Inquisitor - just ask Gabriel. >A lot of In Nomine GMs seem to be using Dominic as an indiscriminate >Heavenly bad guy. "Oh oh, Servitors of Judgment, that means we're all gonna >get hauled in if we say 'boo'..." He's not indiscriminate. He's a bigot. You don't believe what I do, so what you believe is heresy. >It seems that several other notes about Dominic, such as the fact that his >Servitors (and thus by implication, Dominic) may not inflict a punishment >greater than the crime, or stand by while the innocent are punished >unfairly, are being commonly overlooked. They can, actually. They gain dissonance for ignoring what they believe to be heresy, not for being cruel or callous. >In other words, Servitors of Dominic could just as easily be defense >lawyers as prosecutors. A Servitor of Dominic could even defend someone he >knows to be guilty! He would not be trying to get the person off, of course >-- but he'd ensure that all the defendant's Constitutional rights (or the >equivalent, based on the venue) were observed, and he'd work hard to >prevent the defendant from receiving a more severe punishment than he >deserves (doing hard time for shoplifting, for instance.) These would be the good guys among Dominic's flock, but I hesistate to call Dominic anything less than prejudiced. >I think of Dominic's Inquisitors (and remember that not all angels of >Judgment are assigned the task of policing the Host, some have other >responsibilities....like defending the innocent) as the IAD (Internal >Affairs Division) for the Host. Just as many cops despise IAD officers and >consider them to be "buddy-f***ers", many angels probably have animosity >towards angels of Judgment....yet without them, who would root out the bad >apples? If no one stands in judgment over the Host, who's going to tell an >angel that he's not following God's plan? Would you want a police >department with no internal monitoring, no external oversight committee? >Since it's been proven that angels are quite fallible, it makes no more >sense to let angels -- with a much greater responsibility -- go without any >kind of policing either. Would you want a police department's IA division headed up by Torquemada? >Now, some of Dominic's personal obsessions -- such as Gabriel -- may call >his objectivity and fairness to question. One can certainly argue that >Dominic is no more imperfect than any other being, so even he is capable of >making mistakes. But this does NOT mean he's a petty, vindictive tyrant >with no regard for the rights of anyone else. Every time Dominic passes >judgment on an angel, he has to feel the weight of that responsibility. He >certainly knows that if he goes around consigning Servitors to damnation >for every transgression, he will lose all respect and moral authority in >the eyes of the Host. He already is. Michael, Janus, Gabriel, Novalis, and the omnipresent (that's sarcasm, kids) Eli are all resisting Dominic on some level. That's nearly half of the major Angelics that don't find favor with Dominic. >Dominic is unyielding, uncompromising, and sometimes completely arbitrary. >However, he is still an *angel*. He does not act with malevolent intent or >out of personal self-interest, as Asmodeus does. He wants the best for >Heaven and Earth, as much as any other Archangel, he just has a very >different idea of how that should be accomplished. For him, it means not >tolerating the slightest amount of corruption. Or deviation from the Company Line. Dominic deals with Asmodeus on a fairly regular basis, but this is not heresy. At the behest of Yves, Gabriel helped found Islam, and that was heresy. Sorry, I can't help but think that Dominic's not someone I'd want in judgement over anyone. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 13:23:52 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Saminga and the Pharoahs >>>This Leaves him annimating Dead Pharohs as Mummies. Dead Pharoahs were supposed to have been Horus and become Osiris. So either the major powers of the Egyptian panteon didn't notice bits of them being stolen or they didn't exisit or Saminga goes under the name Apep some times.<<< Or the Egyptians were simply wrong about their dead Pharoahs being Horus and Osiris. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 13:23:53 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Know Your Diabolicals 15 Christopher >>>Besides Faction politics immplies [at least to me] the need for a level of cynisism incompatable with innocence.<<< No, faction politics require only selfishness, and children are *born* with that attribute. >>>It takes a certain amount of wordly wise experience to deside that lying and stabing your friends in the back is an advatages behaviour pattern, as opposed to doing it by accident.<<< Factions don't have to involve deliberate betrayal. They can be as simple as one group of kids deciding they won't play with another group. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 13:23:50 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music >>>My basic problem with Night Music is...why is it all together like it is? Can I expect to have an adventure or setting foisted on me with each new world element I want to read about?<<< Well, each release in the current schedule is part of the aforementioned Revelations cycle, which means they're going to tie together in an overall storyline-- so yes, you can probably expect that there will be an adventure and often a new setting with each new supplement. You're certainly within your rights to express discontent with this arrangement-- if enough people agree with you, SJG will likely reconsider how they release new In Nomine supplements. However, frankly, I don't think many people are going to object to having adventures and settings included with other material. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:52:54 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>>Servitors of Judgement gain dissonance according to their own standards of heresy and truth, not Dominic's.<<< Yes, but if a Servitor's standards deviate from Dominic's, there's gonna be trouble. >>>More to the point, that Michael's pride was well-founded.<<< Not necessarily. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:52:56 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>>No, Dominic IS Judgement. Judgement simply implies that the sentence has been carried, not whether justice has been served. I think there's a reason that it's called an Inquisition.<<< There is a distinction between Judgment and justice, yes. But Dominic's brand of Judgment is not devoid of justice, else he wouldn't be an Archangel. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:53:03 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Marc the Smuggler >>>Marc gives an invocation bonus for illegal goods smuggled from another country. Not quite the sort of entity that really believes in legalisation of controled substances.<<< Marc doesn't encourage smuggling because he likes breaking laws. That would be a demon's motivation! The bonus for smuggled goods is because he wants free trade. If goods are illegal, that means someone is trying to prevent them from being traded, which means (from Marc's point of view) that circumventing this attempt to restrict commerce is a Good Thing. But removing the obstacles would be even better.... - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:52:59 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>>Uh, no, there's no indication that most In Nomine angels care about your sexual activities or orientation. (Other than inasmuch as it affects how you treat others.) In Nomine angels aren't following any one religious doctrine, remember? Dominic and Laurence are.<<< They're following the theology of one faith, and supporting the Church for political reasons. Any beliefs they may have about what is and is not proper behavior will be based on their own agenda and outlook, and not that of the church. I find it doubtful that either Dominic or Laurence would care much about human sexual preferences in themselves. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:52:58 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>>Gee, we've just abandoned one of our own to face or join the enemy. Sure, this sounds like a bad thing, but who's to say whether he wouldn't have Fallen eventually anyway?<<< That wasn't the point. Someone (I don't even remember who it was now) said that Dominic's Inquisition might actually *push* angels into Falling. I said it was unlikely, that they're a lot more likely to prevent an angel from Falling, and that if an angel does Fall after the Inquisition starts cracking down on him, it would be hard to demonstrate that it was the Servitors of Judgment who caused it, rather than, at most, precipitating what was inevitable anyway. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:52:53 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>>>Justifiable? No. Justifiable would have been to go after Yves. Dominic wanted to kill the messenger.<<< Like I said before, there was more to it than that (and the bit about Yves *does* bother me too, it just doesn't make sense), and besides, we don't know Dominic was trying to kill Gabriel or do anything else, other than *investigate* just what she was up to. >>>Gabriel's been present at the founding of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. She embodies the principles of education and enlightenment (both of which were better exemplified by Muslims than Christians at the time). Dominic called her in for not being his kind of angel, not because she was betraying Heaven or her Word.<<< That's one possible assumption. Not necessarily the correct one, though. >>>Neither does it make him good or right. You seem to be focussing more on the "Divine", whereas I can't even begin to overlook the ramifications of "Inquisition".<<< No, objectivity isn't inherently right or wrong, good or evil. I'm not overlooking the "Inquisition" part, but the "Divine" part, to me, makes it unlikely that Dominic would become as blind to justice as the Earthly Inquisition did. An "Inquisition" in itself is not inherently evil. >>>Not the point made. Dominic, it would seem, has an exceptionally dim view of non-Catholics/Christians.<<< Again, you're assuming a great deal. Dominic probably has a dimmer view of corrupt Catholic priests than he does of honest atheists. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:53:02 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music >>>Well, yes. The original point was not that it was worthless, merely that the author though there wasn't enough non-Austin, non-adventure stuff to be worth $17.95. About half as much, according to his estimate.<<< I understood that. I was expressing my opinion that there's enough useful material, even if you don't like adventures, settings, or NPCs, to justify buying it. But of course that's up to the purchaser. >>>This, though, I would tend to disagree with. Several times in the setting, it is mentioned that Austin is special, and not your typical major city. Several times "the situation" (as it's put on p. 79) is written of as being something unusual. It'll perhaps spark ideas, yes, but the world as a whole isn't like Austin. I suppose that Night Music gives you *that* idea, at least, but I wouldn't consider that good justification.<<< No, I wasn't saying Austin should be taken to represent the whole world. What I meant was, until now you haven't seen *any* examples of how celestials become a part of the fabric of a city. Now you have one. Maybe your PCs will never go to Austin, but there are surely some ideas there that are exportable. >>>Yeah, well. I'm not convinced that's a major selling point, either. If someone doesn't necessarily like having to purchase a book for a specific setting, I dunno if they'd want to purchase it for a couple of pages on how the general setting is gonna change, whether you like it or not.<<< I think SJ Games will be pretty careful not to make irrelevant the campaigns of GMs in which published adventures *don't* go the way they do in the "official" continuity. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:26:24 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Know your Diabolicals 15: Christopher > >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:11:11 -0400 >From: Adam Canning >Subject: IN> Know your Diabloicals 15 Christopher > >Martin Leslie Leuschen >>> Malphas: The innocent have no faction politics. How he grinds his teeth >> about that. > >What planet did you grow up on?< > >Its not which planet I grew up on that matters [Hong Kong for your >information] . Its more that Christophers party line is faction politics >didn't occur before the fall when the angels were innocent. Remember >Celestials do not really under stand peopel very well. Besides Faction >politics immplies [at least to me] the need for a level of cynisism >incompatable with innocence. It takes a certain amount of wordly wise >experience to deside that lying and stabing your friends in the back is an >advatages behaviour pattern, as opposed to doing it by accident. > I think what Mr. Leuchen meant by "What planet did you grow up on?" is that faction politics are a part of childhood. Kids gang up and tease other kids. Cliques form, containing some, excluding others. Us versus Them happens all through childhood. Sometimes it's Grown ups versus Kids, sometimes students versus teachers, and sometimes boys versus girls. Heck, I've read that the latter division happens about the same age all over the world, regardless of culture. I've never seen a schoolyard where there weren't factions of some kind. Everybody has preferences towards the type of people they want to associate with, save for people who are too young to tell people apart, and that's where factions begin. As for "Celestials do not understand people very well", I'd argue that Christopher has to understand children quite well, it's his Word. I doubt the Seraphim council would award such a human-oriented Word to someone who doesn't know how kids relate to one another. I'd also doubt that you reach Archangel status without knowledge of the way Demon Princes work. I'd imagine a servitor of Christopher saying something like this instead. Malphas: "The truly innocent have no faction politics, but nobody stays truly innocent for long. The Minions of Malphas will lurk around playgrounds, starting brawls for kicks, and they love reducing the functionality of a family. Be ready to give them a spanking." = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:18:59 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Adventure seed: Not my fault! "Are you Jesse Melcer?" Jesse looked up from his newspaper at the wiry man standing before him. He raised an eyebrow. "Who wants to know?" The man paused, plucking a name out of thin air. "My name is Denton Hayes. We have a mutual friend by the name of Phoebe Bradley. Do you remember her?" The power of the Geas settled around Jesse. Yeah, he remembered. "About a year ago, I was walking to work when it started to rain. Real downpour. Ducked under an awning, but I knew I was going to be late, second time that week too. I was all ready to get chewed out by my boss, when a woman walked oout of the coffee shop, and offered to give me a ride. Said her name was Pheobe Bradley. Well, for some reason, I didn't argue, Got to work on time, hell, I was early." Jesse wondered briefly why he remembered a the chance meeting so vividly, and why he was telling it to a guy he just met. "I remember." Hayes smiled. "Miss Bradley sent me to you. She needs a favor." "Well, I guess I can oblige, if it's not too much trouble. What is it?" "Kill your wife." Jesse stared at the man in shock. "You're joking, right?" "No. Miss Bradley requires that you kill your wife. Preferably by this afternoon." Hayes smiled nastily at him. "Miss Bradley expects to be repaid for her favors." "You're fucking crazy! Both of you! Get the hell away from me!" Jesse leapt to his feet and threw the newspaper down.. And the worst thing was, just for the briefest moment, he considered it. Repulsed and confused, Jesse stormed out of the cafe. Hayes watched him go,, then looked down. In his hand appeared a green poker chip, with Melcer's face in the center. As he watched, the chip cracked down the middle, and disappeared in a puff of smoke. Hayes smiled, and somewhere, hundreds of miles away, a traitorous Bright Lilim screamed. - ------------------------------------------> Well, Here's my first serious adventure seed contribution. It hinges on something that I've seen neither confirmed, nor denied yet. That when Lilim A trades off a Geas on Person C, to Person B, and Person B activates the Geas but Person C resists, Lilim A gets Dissonance. What's Happening: Asmodeus hates traitors. Well, he hates a lot of people, but he hates those Demons who have managed to successfuly switched sides more than most. So naturally, he tends to keep tabs on those who have made the transition successfully, Especially those who can be induced to trip. Calvin, a Balseraph of the Game was assigned to watch Phoebe, back when she was a Lilim of Fate. She seemed to be leaning towards the wrong side, and Asmodeus instructed Calvin to keep an eye on her, and stomp her into a reddish paste if she went renegade. Very unfortunately for Calvin, he wasn't watching Phoebe as closely as he thought he was, and she slipped through his fingers and went Renegade, jumped town, and was eventually Redeemed. Asmodeus was not pleased, not pleased at all. Smarting ffrom being busted down a Distiction and a few Forces , he hatched a plan to take revenge on the one he thought most responsile for his predicament: Pheobe herself. While waiting for another Earth assignment, he busied himself in Hell acquiring Phoebe's Geasa. Not the ones on her, but the ones she'd collected on Humans, and traded away. By the time he got another Earth assignment, he'd collected about twenty of Phoebe's Geasa, most of which were Geas/1's on relatively obscure humans that the current possessors didn't see much need in. Once he was back on earth, he set about tracking down the Geased. Once he finds one, he claims to be a representative of Phoebe (backing it up with his Resonance if neccessary), and activates the Geas. He then requests of the target something extremely abhorrent, and above the Geas's power to enforce. Naturally, the target resists. And Phoebe gets Dissonance. It's Calvin's plan to keep doing this until Phoebe Falls, or is too Discordant to be of much use to the Other Side. And he would have gotten away with it too, if it werent for that meddling Seraph. Well if this is so successful at tripping up Lilim, why doesn't it happen all the time? Main reason: Doing this sort of thing really ticks Lilith off. If Lilith gets wind of what Calvin's doing to one of her kids, he's in for a goodly bit of retribution, at the worst possible time. Of course, being an Angel now, Pheobe's not liekely to call Lilith up to let her know, unless she's very desperate. Second, he's wasting a lot of perfectly good Geasa, just to trip up one Lilim. It's a testament to his vengefulness that he was able to track down and obtain that many Geasa gathered by Phoebe. Where the PC's come in: The Triad had been performing a routine investigation of a newly-redeemed Bright Lilim in the area, named Phoebe. Standard operating procedure, checking up on those whjo had recently defected to the Side of Good, and making sure they're not backsliding. The Malakite noticed that the Lilim had accumulated some Dissonance since their last meeting, and the Seraph inquired about it. Phoebe had no idea where the Dissonance was coming from, and said so. Malakite and Cherub looked to the Seraph for confirmation, and were surprised when the Seraph responded, "She's telling the truth. And I know the Truth." Fortunately for the Lilim, the Seraph's resonance had discerned the reason she was accumulating the Dissonance. The Triad of Dominic seeks out the PC's, as the local angels capable of keeping poor Phoebe from Falling. Clearly, Calvin has to be stopped from pushing her. Alas, the Triad can't do it themselves; they arent autonomous servitors, and they have a schedule to keep. If necessary, they might imply that the PCs own activitiescould use a little scrutiny. Why doesn't Phoebe go to her archangel and ask to have the Dissonance removed? Yeah, she could do that. In fact, she has. Recently. Got in a bad position a week or two ago, which was mostly her fault, and had to ask for Dissonance removal. She'd rather not do it again for awhile. What can be done? Pheobe has a decent memory of who's Geasa she traded away when she was a Demon, and the list of those that are still alive Once one of the victims is found, and if Calvin has been there, it shouldn't be too difficult to get a description of the Vessel he used during the visit. The suggestions Calvin is making are pretty memorable. Of course, there is the problem that most of them still believe that he was acting under Phoebe's orders. Rather inconvenient. Here's the tricky part. What can you do to stop Phoebe's descent? Here are a couple ways it could be done. 1) Kill Calvin. That pops him into Trauma, and keeps him out of the way...For a little while. Unfortunately, he still has the Geasa, and if he makes it back to Earth, he can start the whole buisiness all over again. That is, unless you can get him into Celestial combat and kill him permanently. 2) Persuade Calvin to give up the Geasa. Probably the surest course of action, and the most difficult. He's driven by revenge against Phoebe, and he's not likely to give up his Aces in the Hole anytime soon. 3) Get rid of the Ensuing Dissonance. This can be done by either inducing the Geased to do what Calvin told them to do (not very likely, or nice) or by having Phoebe successfully get and call in Geasa on them. Be creative. 4) Let Lilith know. She'll act to put a stop to this abuse. Of course, then Phoebe will owe her another one, as well as having the problems of summoning up a Demon princess, should her Archangel find out. Your players, will, of course, pick none of the above. \|=) Permutations: Rather than have this happen to Pheobe, this could be sprung upon a PC Bright Lilim instead. Eliminate the Triad of Judgement. Phoebe's getting Dissonance, she doesn't know why, and she comes to the PC's on her own for help. Calvin isn't a Balseraph, he's a Shedim. Makes him that much harder to track down. Against all odds, a Diabolical Intervention shows up, and one of the targets succumbs to the Geas! The poor guy does exactly what Calvin tells him to, gets caught, and tells the police his reason is "Because Phoebe told me to" Now she's wanted by the cops for questioning, at the very least. Well, that's the adventure seed. Tell me what you think. = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:56:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music > > > > You're certainly within your rights to express discontent with this > arrangement-- if enough people agree with you, SJG will likely reconsider > how they release new In Nomine supplements. However, frankly, I don't think > many people are going to object to having adventures and settings included > with other material. > Hm. SJG is pretty wary of doing adventures for GURPS for just the reason that people don't buy them. I know that GURPS players are probably unusually self-reliant, but I don't think *anyone* makes money off of adventures. I have even been told, though obviously not the the companies themeslves, that White Wolf and TSR only do adventures to promote their games, without those adventures being profitable in themselves. If someone has heard the same thing, or indeed, something different, I'd be interested in hearing about it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 18:41:58 -0400 From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> Dominic, Christianity, and the Universe > I presumed, and as with all things I could be wrong, that, since it was > earlier established that the Universe (and by that I think we can also read: > God) is not necessarily Christian, that therefore what Dominic was > supporting was the advancement of the Christian church. But Dominic's a Seraph. Promoting something he *knows* is false would be a Bad Thing. Also, the "no more than the universe is Christian" comment came from Nicole, an individual angel, in conversation with her human servant. While much of Nicole's exposition was obviously coming straight from Derek Pearcy to the reader, we should remember that within the IN universe, her opinions should carry no more weight than Dominic's. As a Servitor of Gabriel (of Khalid, in the original writeup), Nicole was probably taught to believe either that Islam is true, or that *no* human religion is true (since Gabriel's been around for all of the Big Three). But just 'cause she said that, we have no reason to believe she's right and Dominic's wrong. Indeed, I prefer an IN universe where no one (or at least no one but Yves, who keeps his mouth shut) knows for sure which human religion is closest to the truth. That seems to be what SJG is going for, since that kind of universe will appeal to the widest possible fan base and will minimize the "controversial" nature of the game. Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:04:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Andrealphus the Lover > > > > > > I was thinking about creating an AA of "Love" to be counter to > Andrealphus. > > Some Distinctions I had in mind: "Vassal of the Devoted", "Friend of > Lovers", and "Master of Hearts." > > But I made a judgment call that this probably wouldn't be in the best > interest of everyone. I felt that maybe there was a reason that there was > a Demon Prince of Lust, but no Archangel of Love. > > Then I made a realization: Isn't Love God's Word? > I think that if you want an Archangel to counter Andrealphus, you will need to leave English in order to find a word specific enough. The Greek "Eros" might do for romantic love. Man - AFAIK, it hasn't been since ancient Greece that a western language has found it necessary to produce words to distinguish between the different kinds of love. Hundreds of English words for abusing people with, one word for all the different kinds of love. I think I'm going to sit in a corner and cry now... :( ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 10:20:25 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music Thomas Davidson wrote: > San Diego was my first > > vampire Chronicle, so I picked my (then) home town, so I'd be able to > > understand where and why everything was. > > Well, this is just common sense GMing. Only the most experienced GMs > should run a campaign in a city other than their own. > Unless you live in a city or area that's wildly inappropriate for 'adventuring'. I grew up in a country town of 10,000 people - not much point in setting a supers game there. Nor would I set a Feng Shui game in my current home city, because it just wouldn't feel right. Actually, it's only as I became a more experienced GM that I even considered running 'home-town' games. It's a lot easier to make stuff up than it is to be true to the facts. > Unfortunately, it is this color (color comic book plates) that detract > from it in a real way. You mean the fuckin' dreadful art in New Millenium? Jesus, that sucked. Working in a comic shop, I saw a lot of bad comic art, but that rulebook really bit the pipe. Shame, since the rules and setting are pretty worthwhile. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Covered with hope and vaseline Still cannot fix this broken machine Watching the hole, it used to be mine Just watching it burn in my steady systematic decline NINE INCH NAILS, "Gave Up" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 20:06:58 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy > >>>More to the point, that Michael's pride was well-founded.<<< > > Not necessarily. Oh no. Michael is proud for a reason. Michael is "the shit". He is "the most powerful angel, in mind and body", he "bested Lucifer in hand-to-hand combat". He is, by inference, either the second or third most powerful being there is (second only to God and perhaps Yves). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 21:41:58 -0400 From: David Paul Subject: IN> Religious Patrons Okay, so Laurance is the patron of Christianity and Khalid is the patron of Islam. But who are the patrons of other religions? Here are some of my theories: Judaism: Yves. Jews are the original "people of the book", and were the first religion to codify their beliefs in written form. Yves is the Archangel of Destiny, and it's suggested that knowledge falls under his provenance as well. (Litheroy is another possibility.) Zoroastrianism: Well, since this religion centers around the worship of God as Fire, I'd say Gabriel is a pretty safe bet. This may be another reason why Dominic called her out: He may have felt that she was setting herself on an equal level with God -- heresy of the worst kind. Any other ideas? Those are the only major monotheistic religions I can think of. There are various sects, etc. as well, but those are the main ones that spring to mind. Oh, BTW, what about Vodoun ("Voodoo")? Are the Loa pagan gods or manifestations of Archangels? Vodoun has become so mixed up with Catholicism that it's hard to tell the difference. - -- David Paul janus@ioa.com - ----------------------------------------------------- Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home. -- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:16:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) > >>>>PR, and the name of the Superior that will track down your ass if you > >screw your side over. (At times I wonder if name really *is* the > >only thing seperating Dominic and Asmodeus.)<<< Kudos to whoever said this (there was no attribution), because you predicted what I was about to write tonight. :) For a while now, something has been bothering me about Dominic. Not so much his methods or his morality -- they've been discussed at length -- but two very minor things: his name and his cloak. I mean, WHY does a Seraph need a cloak? Why should Dom cultivate the dark, looming visage of a Spanish Inquisitor? And then there's the name; 'Dominic' sounds so...foreboding. I was pondering that when it hit me. Transpose the vowels in his name. Dominic --> Dimonic. Demonic! The reason he wears the cloak is because HE'S A BALSERAPH! Consider this: Heaven, just after the trial of Michael. Dom is -seething- about God's intervention. He resents the fact that he's been overruled, and can't understand why God would pardon such an obviously guilty Archangel. Dom begins to develop doubts about the Plan...in fact, begins to doubt the motives of God. Dom becomes convinced that if God was wrong about Michael, then He could be wrong about a great many more things. He begins seeing his views as superior to God's, and the Word of Judgement takes on sinister aspects. Dominic Falls...but doesn't realize it. By convincing himself of the rightness of his actions, he unwittingly uses the Balseraph attunement upon himself. What happens when an Archangel Falls? Surely it merits the attention of Lucifer himself, who would certainly savor the irony of the situation. Lucifer grants to Dominic the Balseraph of Fate attunement, allowing him to maintain his Seraphic abilities. So...we have a Fallen Archangel who doesn't realize he's Fallen. Who's going to call him on it? Those who question the Word of Judgement surely meet with...intensive investigation. Such remarks are dismissed by the majority of Heaven, who sympathize with the speaker but consider such accusations to be beyond the realm of absurd. And so the lie continues... This explains many of Dominic's actions. Why did he persecute Gabriel? Because, deep down, he knew her to be a threat -- punishment falls under her purview. By bringing her competence into question, he would be safe from her. Why not persecute Yves? Yves might learn the truth if Dom let him get too close. Why work so closely with Asmodeus? Because, deep down, they're on the same side.... So maybe Dominic DOES drive angels to Fall through his Inquisition. He keeps Heaven divided into camps, and dicourages those who show initiative and inventiveness by punishing them when they don't adhere to the party line. And down in Hell, Lucifer is laughing his ass off. Thoughts? Comments? Rotten Fruit? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #274 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.