From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 4 08:11:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24538 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:11:13 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA03705 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 06:39:05 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 06:39:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199708041139.GAA03705@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #277 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 277 In this digest: Re: IN> Relic Weapons Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music Re: IN> Laurence and the Catholic Church IN> Lilith's Distinctions. Re: IN> Know your Diabolicals 15: Christopher Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #274 Re: IN> Religions and patron Archangels IN> Laurence and the Catholics Re: IN> Why I DID buy Night Music Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Marc the Smuggler IN> Proud Michael IN> IN Cities Re: IN> Why I DID buy Night Music RE: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy IN> Re: Adventure seed: Not my fault! IN> Maarath, Familiar Outcast from Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 21:14:01 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Relic Weapons On Aug 3, 7:07pm, Adam Canning wrote: > Subject: IN> Relic Weapons > What is the point of Nicole's Holy Pistol/1 ? > It does check digit times 1 damage > Revolvers do Checjk digit damage and do not cost a character point per > shot. > > Also Marcus must have been a lot more hurt than he appeared if 1d6 damage > took him down. The _Power_ for the Holy pistol is equal to Resource level multiplied by the check digit. So a HP/1 would do a base of 1d6 (the check digit) + (the check digit) times 1. In other words [1d6]*2 damage. Remember that the Power of a weapon is added to whatever is rolled on the check digit. Still, it seems a bit unlikely since the top damage is 12. I don't put it past the possessor of the body to have deliberately damaged it somehow to make the death easier.... (since he was planning on letting it die anyways). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 21:42:00 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music On Aug 4, 10:10am, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music > Hermes Trismegistus wrote: > > > > Now, after straying from the point I was originally making: I don't want > > background info on US cities. The only campaign I have ever written for > > America was Rifts[1], everything else is local. This means that settings, and > > usually adventures, are of no real use to me as they do not apply to my games. > > Other gamers from Australia, England and wherever else[2] may agree with me > > on this, maybe its just my problem. > > > Easy for you... you live in Sydney, where things do _happen_ > occasionally. Try running a decent game set in Brisbane. Players > always want to know why important things happen in one of the world's > backwaters. > The possibility does exist, however, for 'canon' Australian material - > White Wolf put out Rage Across Australia, which was written by a group > of gamers from Sydney. Make enough noise and have enough material for > submission to SJG, and you might get somewhere... Yup. Several SJG products do quite well in Australia (notice that several of the new INWO expansion cards came from down under). A good submission has a chance for getting a supplement, though it would probably be in the second Cycle (currently untitled... or perhaps I have been sworn to secrecy) ;) A Pyramid submission is probably the best way to get noticed. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 21:59:39 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Catholic Church At 05:35 PM 8/3/97 -0400, David Edelstein wrote: >For that matter, Archangels are in a position to *know* whether homosexuals >are automatically damned to Hell, aren't they? How? Not to many archangels get to roam hell to take a census. Even if a homosexual is *IN* hell, that doesn't mean homosexuality is what got him there. No one gets to go to the higher reaches of heaven, so you can't go see if there is a homosexual in heaven. Speaks "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 12:05:59 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Lilith's Distinctions. I've been thinking about some ideas for Distinctions granted by Lilith. Obviously very few demons would have them, but it does say in the book that Lilith *rarely* grants Distinctions (emphasis mine), rather than she has *no* Distinctions (as in Eli's case). So if anyone has any ideas, please post them. Some ideas appear below. Knight of the Bound Can sense at a glance if someone is psychologically chained, if not physically. They do not know who or what these bindings are, however. Examples would be Victims of Geasa, Servants of AAs or Dps who do not want to be doing something etc. Captain of Escapees Can instinctively sense the best ways of escaping from any building or prison, the ones least guarded or overlooked. With 1 Essence and a Touch, they can transfer this knowledge to any other prisoner. Baron of the Free Not only can the Baron sense the best way to escape, they can alter things so that escape is more likely. By succeeding on a Will roll, the Baron causes small events to occur which aid freedom. The Check Digit of the successful roll is added to the Target Number of any roll made by the prisoners while attempting to escape. This power manifests as Guards 'forgetting' to double check a lock, the keys being left slightly too close to a cell, short circuits causing alarms to fail just as the prisoners walk past them etc. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:31:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Know your Diabolicals 15: Christopher > > > > > >From what I understand Malphas stands for deliberate creation of Factions > and for deliberate action between tham and along with Aelmon for ever > increasing Paranoia. Not what I remember from school where while there were > personal differences they didn't break down into my gang verses your gang. > That may be unusual though. Either way the sort of groupings you are > describing are not actively hostile towards each other, more not > interacting. I suspect that your experience is unusual, although I hope that you are right and I am wrong. Where factions simply don't interact, I assume that this is just because the teacher won't let the children kill each other. Violence in the schoolyard is pretty common as it is and faction seems to be a big contritubtor to this. > Indeed, it has always seemed to me that the innocence of children has more to do with lack of power to do evil than lack of nastiness. If anything, humans are born bad, but with loving care can gain a sense of empathy that makes them fit for decent society. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:23:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #274 > >I think that if you want an Archangel to counter Andrealphus, you will > >need to leave English in order to find a word specific enough. The Greek > >"Eros" might do for romantic love. Man - AFAIK, it hasn't been since > >ancient Greece that a western language has found it necessary to produce > >words to distinguish between the different kinds of love. Hundreds of > >English words for abusing people with, one word for all the different > >kinds of love. I think I'm going to sit in a corner and cry now ... :( > > Love. > Lust. Is a pretty negative word that I wouldn't class under even a broad interpretation of "love". > Friendship. Is reasonable - O.K.. > Infatuation. Ain't a kind of love. Nor is > Attraction.> Compassion. > Empathy.> Sympathy.> Kindness.> Gallantry.> Chivalry.> Benevolence.> Philanthropy. I can feel/show any of these to people I don't love. > ... > English has _lots_ of words for the different facets of love. You > can probably come up with a dozen more if you try hard enough. > > I'll go with the person who stated that Love is God's Word (if, indeed, > the concept of "Word" can be said to apply to the Composer of the > Symphony.) It just works out so nicely... > I tend to think that God does not have a word, but rather a dictionary that He Himself wrote. But I could bet wrong. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:43:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Religions and patron Archangels On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Stacy Stroud wrote: > >Okay, so Laurance is the patron of Christianity and Khalid is the patron > >of Islam. But who are the patrons of other religions? Here are some of > >my theories: > > > >Judaism: Yves. > I don't know who wrote this... I'm grabbing it from Stacy's posting. Actually, the rulebook states that Yves supports Islam. How about Metatron for Judaism? (He has a rather extensive write-up in the Dictionary of Angels by Gustav Davidson). > The book of Daniel puts forth Michael as a contender. > > Dunno if his IN characterization really fits, though. > > > > > Stacy Stroud > sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net > > > Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 00:23:48 -0400 From: "S. John Ross" Subject: IN> Laurence and the Catholics > >>>I don't. Laurence wants the Catholic Church to be the single > most powerful group on Earth. This would mean its tenets > be important as well. Dominic's kinda iffy, though. I could > see it either way.<<< > > You have to look at his motives for supporting the Church. Remember, angels > are above dogma, and even Catholics don't all agree on these issues. Do you > think Laurence believes something because the Pope says it? ;) > > For that matter, Archangels are in a position to *know* whether homosexuals > are automatically damned to Hell, aren't they? Hi, folks. S. John here; first time posting in here, I think . . . Had to respond to this. Here is the response: (A) Go ask Gabriel if she thinks angels are above dogma. Yves is, perhaps. Perhaps. (B) As far as Laurence's perception of the infallibility of the Pope, or of Catholicism in general: Remember his motives for what he attempted with Martin Luther. That is all. - -Sjohn The Blue Room . . . http://www.cybercity.com/blueroom/blue.htm IT'S NOT JUST A WEBSITE WELL, ACTUALLY IT IS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 01:55:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Why I DID buy Night Music In a message dated 97-08-03 12:07:02 EDT, you write: << I can believe that, but what about Chaosium? There always putting out new adventures for Call of Cthulhu. >> At the risk of getting off of the list's subject of In Nomine- Only the game company in question is able to tell you if it's popular. You're right about Call of Cthulhu, I'm always happy to see their stuff. A lot has to do with labor and complexity of the game. For super labor intensive games adventures are a godsend. Ditto if the game is easier, but you haven't quite got a mental handle on the game, but are interested in it anyway. Gurps is a great game. In fact, it's so good that to me adventures are useless, and settings are highly optional. Genre books, however, can be a must have if the Genre appeals. As far as In Nomine goes... The Game was great. Fix the typos, organization and editing, but it was great all the same. Maybe change game attitude a little- no two GM's have the same feel for what Angels and Demons would be like- so maybe design the game for a broader range of play styles. All in all though, it's still the best game I've seen in well over five years. The Screen: The actual screen itself stinks- sorry. I think "Feast of Blades" was awesome though, so I'm glad I bought it. Well worth the price. Pyramid Magazine: Keep those In Nomine articles coming- some are good, some are only fair, but all of them are appreciated. Just rename the magazine "The In Nomine Journal" and I'll be a happy cancer. Night Music: I liked it. Everything BUT Austin. It's a fine town, It's a great place, but I'm sorry I hate the truce. I can see having sympathy for demon, but I can't see deciding that what it does is okay, and should be allowed to continue. I certainly can't see a setting that is anethma to one of the most popular choices for player character- the malakim. Yes, it's nice to have interactions that don't involve pitched battles, but it's almost unavoidably easy to come up with a less contrived method. However I have nothing against the choice of city per se. Some of the stuff in it was still of minor interest to import elsewhere. I've liked almost every new superior to date, except for Christopher you manages to be inoffensively dull. I can rationalize almost any other angel filling in for him, with quite a few doing so with vigour. I can't see why my game needs him or how he spices it up even if my game is really really big on protecting children. But if he adds nothing at least he subtracts nothing as well. Maybe some day I'll have a player who really really wants to serve him and they'll show me why he's in the least bit interesting. The rest of the superiors were great, however. I thought Demon Prince of Rock And Roll was awesome. I thought the section on Saminga was way cool. I did enjoy Lawrence but I'm getting the feeling that SJG is conflicted or uncertain about what to do with him. The sections on Saints and Soldiers was very well done. As for what I would like to see in the future: - - More songs. Please. I shown this game to several people and so far EVERYONE has said the number of songs should be just about doubled. This is not a coincidence. This is something that novice gamers and veteran gamers are seeing right away. A good set of rules are like having a good prop department. They can't make up for a lack of acting ability, but on the other hand they don't hurt. So much time is spent talking about how awful it is being an angels servant and what pesky jerks they are that I wonder at the fact any have servants at all. I'd like to see a little discussion on the list and in printed material about how swell they can be and why I would WANT to risk my life for them. I mean, these servants can't ALL be being blackmailed! I would actually like to see more info on heaven and hell itself with an eye toward why I would want to spend some (but not all) of my time there and how these places could be used as a setting for an adventure. I think SJG should be proud of what they've done. This is the best game of the 1990's - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 01:00:09 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy At 10:23 AM 8/3/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>>Some people have suggested Dominic is persecuting Eli and Gabriel because >>of a personal grudge, and that he went after Michael for similar reasons. >I >>see him as being more impersonal than that. > >I don't. Dominic has his point of view. All others are heresies.< > >Eli is out of control and out of his mind [IN p116] >Gabriel is too disturbed to rehabilitate [IN p118] > >Doesn't look like Dominics wrong to be worried about them. Dominic's not after either of them because of their sanity (from a human perspective, how many Archangels are sane?), but because he doesn't like what they're doing. Eli left Heaven for parts unknown and reasons unknown. Dominic's calling an Inquisition on no real basis. Gabriel was brought in for Islam, not making cooing noises during the Seraphim Council Meetings. Furthermore, Michael wasn't nuts, either. >On the Heresy point Dominic listens when Yves speaks, even when it is >against his personnal views. Neither Gabriel or Eli have ever answered the >cases against them. Micheal did and God quashed the case on public intrest >grounds. Gabriel walked out, even when Yves spoke in her defense. Eli may or may not know about the charges against him. >Why dominic is as hard on ardchangels as it appears he is is given no >reason. However he is the Archangel of Judgement and his behaviour may be >intended to cause some other result than the one it appears he is after, >i.e. if you start trying the other archangels for herasy it encourages them >to prove themselves not guilty and to work together, something that Gabriel >and Micheal seem to find difficult. Interesting theory, but with one small problem: Dominic's actions have alienated those people. >It also sends a signal to the lesser angels, stick to the party line or have >proof you are right to deviate. Something which seems to be needed when >you consider what Druiel and Tomas are upto. Using people as examples in trials isn't what most people would consider just. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 01:00:08 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy At 03:45 AM 8/3/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>>>I don't. Dominic has his point of view. All others are heresies.<<< > >Not necessarily heretical, but wrong. In any case, prosecuting what he >considers to be heresy doesn't mean he's persecuting people he has a grudge >against. Heresies. Variations of the truth that are wrong. >>>>For such a trivial theft, making restitution and >>apologizing would probably satisfy a Servitor of Judgment. > >Malakim?<<< > >Probably, though it would depend on what else the Malakite saw with his >resonance. Granted. >>>>And who's responsible for the situation she was in when she left?<<< > >Gabriel and Dominic both, IMO. Not that Dominic would even begin to acknowledge it. >>>>He needs it. Attempting to cast out the two most major warrior Angels >from Heaven, while you're still in war, well, it seems to lack what one >would call... good judgement.<<< > >Well, gee.....what if in the middle of WWII we'd discovered evidence that >Patton or McArthur were engaged in profiteering, or trying to set up their >own little dictatorships, even while they were waging the war on behalf of >the U.S.? I think the War Department would have initiated court martial >proceedings, even if it would have been disruptive. What about court martials if Patton were arrogant and MacArthur was off forming another army that would probably help the Allies? >>>>They also follow their own personal moralities, something >inconsistant with such a strict master.<<< > >Like I said earlier, a Servitor of Dominic whose personal morality differs >too much with that of his master is going to have problems. Again, this is probably something we'll have to wait for in Heaven & Hell. >>>>I doubt he has that kind of time. No, he'll only go after famous angels >to make them an example.<<< > >Given that the majority of angels probably have no great predisposition >towards Christianity as the Way Things Ought to Be, I'd say Dominic's >either not trying to persecute non-Christians out of existence in Heaven, >or if he is, he's awfully ineffectual. I lean towards the former. Or he's picking and choosing, like I said. >>>>Just because he's right often doesn't mean that he's usually >right. His screw-ups have been major, you'll recall.<<< > >First, as I've pointed out repeatedly, it's a matter of opinion whether he >really "screwed up". God came down and told him so. >Secondly, as I've pointed out repeatedly, even if he was wrong, that's two >or three mistakes in several thousand years. Looks like a pretty >respectable record to me. How many successes of his have we seen? How many failures? Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 01:00:07 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy At 10:22 AM 8/3/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >At 01:27 AM 8/3/97 -0500, Andrew Getting wrote: > >>"Dominic... declared her heretical and tried to have her exiled >> from Heaven." >> >> - In Nomine, page 118 >> >>He tried to force an Archangel into being Outcast. >>Astoundingly bad idea. > >You would prefer have an insane firebrand in your ranks? The last thing I >would want in a war is an incredibly powerful insane person on MY side. With a few problems: Gabriel was not on trial for insanity, but for heresy. Furthermore, the way her insanity is presented links it to Dominic; being the subject of an Inquisition may have been what broke her mind. >>>>>>Gabriel's been present at the founding of Judaism, Christianity, >>>and Islam. She embodies the principles of education and enlightenment >>>(both of which were better exemplified by Muslims than Christians >>>at the time). Dominic called her in for not being his kind of angel, >>>not because she was betraying Heaven or her Word.<<< >>> >>>That's one possible assumption. Not necessarily the correct one, though. >> >>What other options do you propose? > >I like the option that Gabriel was listening to Yves as if he were God. THAT >and not starting islam was the no-no. Then Dominic probably would have sent a messenger or two to Gabriel, rather than have one of the most powerful creatures in Heaven leave there because of his actions. >>>I'm not overlooking the "Inquisition" part, but the "Divine" part, to me, >>>makes it unlikely that Dominic would become as blind to justice as the >>>Earthly Inquisition did. An "Inquisition" in itself is not inherently evil. >> >>I disagree. The triatic method of the Inquisiton involves >>the loss of all privacy, dignity, and respect for the accused. > >I don't understand why you say this. I think that the Seraph could be very >respectful. The others don't ask questions. They just keep you from running. Seraphim aren't respectful. They're the Most Holy, and Inquisitors. Having a Cherubim bound to you against your will, so that he knows where you are at all times, is obviously a breach of privacy. >>>>>>Not the point made. Dominic, it would seem, has an exceptionally >>>dim view of non-Catholics/Christians.<<< >>> >>>Again, you're assuming a great deal. Dominic probably has a dimmer view of >>>corrupt Catholic priests than he does of honest atheists. >> >>Then why did he try to exile Gabriel for Islam but not >>Christianity? > >Perhaps with Christianity Gabriel was operating under GODS instructions and >with Islam he was operating under Yves's instructions. We don't have enough evidence to even begin to support that. Perhaps Dominic was simply jealous that Gabriel might know whether or not Dominic's patron religion is true, but won't say. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 01:00:08 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy At 03:45 AM 8/3/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>>>Neither does he need any real justification for it. There's a reason >he's called an Inquisitor - just ask Gabriel.<<< > >Yeah, so? We still don't know exactly what his motives were and whether or >not he had legitimate reason. Given Yves' involvement in the matter, Dominic's appearance doesn't make him look like he had a legitimate motive or reason. >>>>He's not indiscriminate. He's a bigot. You don't believe what I do, >so what you believe is heresy.<<< > >You're confusing terms, here. It's possible to believe in heresy without >being a bigot. (To Catholics, technically any non-Catholic beliefs are >heretical, but that doesn't mean they want to discriminate against >non-Catholics.) You may want to read up on some of the Pope's views. And as a Catholic, I don't consider other views heresies. >Dominic is the one who defines heresy in Heaven, by virtue of being >Judgment. I've been around and around on this one before, but I maintain >his judgment on the matter is usually sound. No, he chooses what he believes heresies are. It's obvious other Archangels have some say (Yves and Michael's defense of Gabriel, and God's defense of Michael). >Now what you *do* about heresy defines whether or not you're a bigot. >Dominic is harsh, but IMO, the angels he prosecuted will inevitably have >done something-- or be suspected of having done something-- that IS a crime >against Heaven. Dominic is described as a tyrant. Furthermore, pride and founding religions isn't, to the best of my knowledge, on the same level as consorting with the Infernal. >Consorting with demons, for instance. Now we know that >angels in In Nomine are going to consort with demons all the time, it's the >basis of many plots. Some Superiors tolerate this, whereas Dominic might >have you hauled in because you were caught having a friendly chat with your >buddy the Impudite who sometimes trades information with you. That's not >bigotry, it's rigid (excessively so, in some cases) enforcement of the >laws. Except that Dominic and the Servitors of Judgement consort with Asmodeus and the Gamers on a semi-regular basis. This is one of my major problems with Dominic; he calls Gabriel a heretic for fullfilling her word and (as far as she knows) the Will of God, but consorting with the third-most-potent demon in Hell isn't heretical. >What you seem to be saying is that, for instance, Dominic will prosecute >for heresy any angel who says he doesn't believe Jesus Christ was sent by >God. I doubt it. Beg pardon, but that's what he did to Gabriel. I have no reason to believe he wouldn't do it again. >>>>They can, actually. They gain dissonance for ignoring >what they believe to be heresy, not for being cruel or >callous.<<< > >Reread page 114. Did that the other day. Oops ;> >>>>Would you want a police department's IA division headed up by >Torquemada?<<< > >I don't agree that Dominic is Torquemada. Similar viewpoints, similar methods. >>>>He already is. Michael, Janus, Gabriel, Novalis, and the omnipresent >(that's sarcasm, kids) Eli are all resisting Dominic on some level. That's >nearly half of the major Angelics that don't find favor with Dominic.<<< > >Janus, Novalis and Eli are all neutral towards Dominic. Sure, they disagree >with him about some things. They disagree with other Archangels about some >things too. ALL the major Archangels are resisting to the same or greater >degree half of all the other Archangels. That's called politics. >Dominic isn't held in special disdain. Novalis ignores Dominic. Eli either doesn't know about Dominic's efforts, or doesn't care. Janus is afraid of Dominic. >>>>Or deviation from the Company Line. Dominic deals with Asmodeus on a >fairly regular basis, but this is not heresy. At the behest of Yves, >Gabriel helped found Islam, and that was heresy. Sorry, I can't help but >think that Dominic's not someone I'd want in judgement over anyone.<<< > >Well, I wouldn't want him in judgment over ME. I'd like to think angels are >held to a higher standard, though. Consorting with demons was a common capital punishment during the Inquisition, you'll recall. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:00:29 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Marc the Smuggler >>>Then wouldn't a copy of a free trade agreement be a better item for the invocation modifier list?<<< I'd certainly give a bonus for that. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:00:27 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Proud Michael >>>Using cliches won't prove a point. Michael's probably been proud ever since he made a footprint on Lucifer's ass.<<< If I can use a six-word "cliche" to make the same point as a more lengthy paragraph, it saves wear on my keyboard. My point was that being a demon-kicking bad-ass doesn't excuse everything an angel might do. Michael may indeed have reason to be proud, but excessive pride has always been something to be wary of. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:00:26 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> IN Cities >>>I would be interested in seeing your write up, as a matter of fact I would be interesdted in most city write ups. Idea, why don't folks do In Nomine write ups for theyr local areas and send them to the net.<<< My (very unofficial) write-up of In Nomine New York City is on my web page. (Along with the Archangel of Cities, the Archangel of Salvation, the Demon of Cities, and In Nomine "Touched by an Angel"....what can I say, I *like* cheesy TV shows. ) - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:01:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Mowery Subject: Re: IN> Why I DID buy Night Music On Mon, 4 Aug 1997 Calabim@aol.com wrote: > Night Music: I liked it. Everything BUT Austin. It's a fine town, It's a > great place, but I'm sorry I hate the truce. I can see having sympathy for > demon, but I can't see deciding that what it does is okay, and should be > allowed to continue. I certainly can't see a setting that is anethma to one > of the most popular choices for player character- the malakim. Yes, it's nice > to have interactions that don't involve pitched battles, but it's almost > unavoidably easy to come up with a less contrived method. Not knowing what the designers were thinking, I'll hazard a couple of wild guesses. In Nomine is, in large part, a satire and meant to be played as one (although precious little help for GMs wanting to run a satire game is given in the rulebook). The situation in Austin could be a satire of expected celestial interaction, or an homage to "Good Omens". Also, like in Good Omens, it's possible for angels to be tarnished and demons to have merely sauntered in a vaguely downward direction rather than being actively malevolent. With the exception of Mercurians and Impudites, most demons and angels don't necessarily like people. Even if they're on the other side, and angel and a demon probably have more in common and than a celestial and a mortal. As long as the demon isn't doing evil right in front of you or interfering in your plans.... "You want to talk about what a jerk Haagenti is? Lemme tell you about working for Yves, buddy!" (Taken to the extreme, you get a situation like in "Good Omens" where the angel and demon will occasionally perform little jobs for each other, since these things would get done anyway, and it really saves effort on each being's part if an angel travelling to Islington can stop to spread a little misery on the way, while a demon travelling to, oh, someplace else further away (being a native of Ohio, my London geography is not very good) can stop on the way and do a good deed.) Kevin "Professor Bobo" Mowery______________kemowery@freenet.columbus.oh.us "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals." --Kay, "Men In Black" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 08:13:25 UT From: "Hermes Trismegistus" Subject: RE: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>Secondly, as I've pointed out repeatedly, even if he was wrong, that's two >or three mistakes in several thousand years. Looks like a pretty >respectable record to me. How many successes of his have we seen? How many failures?< First[1] law of customer feedback: for every compliment you get, you get about 25 complaints. Seems like Dom is suffering from a surfeit of customer feedback. I don't agree with alot of what he has done, but I'm sure that all of the real heresies he has exposed are not going unnoticed by Someone, or he wouldn't retain the position he has. Kurt "If you want the Big One, You'll have to queue and if you do you're gonna get some" PWEI ~ Cape Connection [1] maybe not the first, but who know what the f@ck goes through the minds of marketing people? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 22:45:33 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Adventure seed: Not my fault! >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 03:45:48 -0400 >From: David Edelstein >Subject: IN> Adventure seed: Not my fault! > >I see two problems with it: > >1) A Geas can't be used to demand something above the level of the Geas. >The rules don't make it explicit, but I'd say if a Lilim (or anyone else) >holding a Level 1 Geas on someone tried to invoke it for a Level 6 favor, >the target doesn't even need to make a Will roll to resist. There's no >backlash-- the Geas hasn't even been invoked properly. (Or if you're a mean >GM, you could say it vanishes.) > My opinion differs, of course. I'd come down on the side thatif the victim resists, the Lilim gains Dissonance. Asking for a higher-level favor beyond what the Geas can enforce, I'd file under Automatic Resistance, assuming the subject had any reason not to go through with it. >2) Again, the rules don't make it clear, but I don't think if a Lilim >trades a Geas she holds on someone to another person, that *she* will take >dissonance if the subject resists when the Geas is finally invoked by a >third party. Seems to me if this could happen, Lilim would be a lot less >likely to trade Geases! (Are you really going to count on Lilith's ire >saving you?) Aye, there's the rub. It's a seed hung off a specific interperetationof the rules. This seed works better with the view that the celestial form of the Geas is a small piece of the Lilim's form, pulled free to allow easy trading. Each lilim is thus intimatelyt connected which every geas she creates. Granted, there's nothing to support that view but the demented ramblings of my own mind. I'd asked earler about who gets Dissonance when a third-partu Geas is resisted, but that wwas never answered, mainy becase it was hidden in the middle of a post on a completely different subject. Ah, well. True, relying on Lilith isn't that good of an idea. On the other hand, I'd think a few spectacular demonstrations the first few times someone took a Lilim down that way would serve to make a suitable example. Lilith is someone you don't want on your bad side. Most Demon Princes will only (eventually) kill you. Anyway, it was either this seed or the Jurassic Park-based one, where a Lilim of Vapula with a Geas/6 on an Angel uses it to get her to go to Heaven, visit the Cathedral of Purity, and take a few samples from the Dragon skulls. I hadn't quite decided what Vap would do with cloned Dragons, though. = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 21:44:17 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Maarath, Familiar Outcast from Fire Maarath, Familiar Outcast from Fire. Corporeal Forces: 1 Ethereal Forces: 1 Celestial Forces: 2 Strength: 1 Intelligence:2 Perception:5 Agility: 3 Precision:2 Will:3 Skills: Dodge(AGI)/2 Area Knowledge(Seattle)/2 Fast-Talk(WIL)/2 Escape(AGI)/3 Songs: Tongues(Celestial/4) Vessels: Parakeet/1 Body: 2 Mind:2 Soul: 6 Discord: Fear [Celestials]/1 It all used to be a lot simpler. Meet Vile person, punish him for his misdeeds, meet another vile person, repeat. Once in awhile, trounce the occasional Demon, thwart the occasional Diabolical plot. He was assigned to an Elohite of Fire named Helen working in Australia. Nice, calm, rational. Practically stereotypical Elohite. It was quite straightforward for the first month or so. Then things changed. For an Elohite. Helen began acting rather oddly. For one, she relocated to Seattle, Washington. When she expained it, it made sense why they weren't punishing this person or that person. It made sense that she hadn't been in contact with Gabriel for months. The Dissonance was only temporary, and the Archangel would gladly wipe it when they saw her next. And then it happened. It was a simple errand, really. A woman embezzeling money from the family business. Just sneak into the house, grab the balance sheets, and go. Getting in wasn't that difficult. Down the chimney, and it was simple enough to find the books. Just nearby, though, Maarath stumbled upon the womans diary. Reading it, he discovered that she wasn't embezzeling at all, but instead was doing quite the opposite. Supporting the failing enterprise with her own money, secretly. Helen had lied to him. So he went back to Helen and confronted her. The Elohite flew into a rage, demanding that he obey her unqestioningly, that she knew what was best, that she was acting on the authority of God himself.That sometimes the inocent needed to be hurt so that the guilty could be Punished. Maarath saw,finally, that Helen wasb't an Elohite anymore, but a Habbalah. And she'd dragged him down with her. Shocked and repulsed, he fled. And as he did, he felt his connection with Heaven shattering. Simultaneously, he felt his connection with Helen shattering. He was Outcast, trapped on Earth, and alone. Maarath's in a pickle now. He's trying to maintain supporting Gabriel's word on Earth, as best as a parakeet can. He's deathy afraid of Celestials. He believes any Angels he runs across are itching to hand him over to Dominic, and he believes (probably rightly) that any Demons he runs across want to tear him into tiny shreds. Oh, and there's Helen, who believes she's still an Angel, and also wants to tear him into tiny shreds, then rip his Forces away. She "knows" he's become a Demon, and a traitor, and must be destroyed. What's worse, is that he's not at all sure he hasn't Fallen yet, and he can't go Celestial to check. He's also trapped in a very weak Parakeet Vessel, not at all good for remaining inconspicuous in Seattle. In addition, he has to fend off attacks from urban predators, and well-meaning "rescuers." On the plus side, being a Familiar whoese bonds have been severed, he has no Dissonance conditions. Barring extraordinary circumstances, he can't Fall. Of course, he doesn't know that... What he wants is to get back into Gabriel's Good Graces, and be reassigned to Heaven for a good long while. He's been doing his best to uphold his former Archangel's orders, punishing the wicked. Generally, he does this by opening mailboxes and taking out bills, letting the air out of tires, hiding keys, unplugging alarm clocks, stuffing grass into exhaust pipes,and that sort of thing. If neccessary, he can use the Celestial Song of Tongues to let the authorities know what's going on.. He very rarely resorts to arson, it attracts way too much attention. Maarath feels his best option is to hook up with a Soldier, and work with him or her until he can conquer his fear of Celestials. From there he can hope to become involved in something sufficient to curry Gabriel's favor, and get him back into Heaven. = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #277 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.