From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 4 23:05:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23482 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 23:05:50 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09214 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:53:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:53:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199708050153.UAA09214@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #279 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 279 In this digest: Re: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) FW: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: What *would* you buy? (Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music) Re: IN> S. of Hell -> Demons & a Saints ? (Night Music) Re: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) Re: IN> Know your Diabolicals 15: Christopher Re: IN> Laurence and the Catholic Church IN> IN PBEM:Need more Demons... Re: IN> S. of Hell -> Demons & a Saints ? (Night Music) Re: IN> Children and Factions Re: IN> S. of Hell -> Demons & a Saints ? (Night Music) Re: IN> Celestial Enquirer (A Publication of Kobal Enterprises, Ink.) IN> Spawn as an example of recruiting... Re: FW: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) Re: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) Invocation Bonuses (Re: IN> Marc the Smuggler) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #274 Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy Re: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) Re: IN> Last Session's Qestions... IN> Maarath, Familiar Outcast from Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:02:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) > >The reason he wears the cloak is because HE'S A BALSERAPH! Heh..I still prefer the idea that it's because he's Kobal, but... > Dominic's Malakim have the ability to hear discord like a wailing scream. That (and the Ofanite comment a bit on) assumes that Angelic Resonances can work against the Archangel/Demon Prince who assigns them... There being no particular reason to believe either way, I don't see that it's unlikely they at least could have the option of setting themselves up as an exception. > Gabriel's Elohim can sense those who delight in inflicting psychological or > emotianal pain in others. Perhaps that would be a tip off. If he does, it might, but who'd listen? Gabriel, as has been pointed out numerous times in the "Dominic's A Cool Guy" thread, IS completely off her rocker AND has known motives against Dominic...if one of HER Servitors came in and said, "He's just nasty and mean," do you see all the Archangels going wide-eyed and gasping, "Gosh! We never noticed that! We'll persecute him immediately for this!" Suffice to say, I sure don't. > Seraphim of Lawrence can tell whether a foe is ultimately on the side of > good or evil. While this requires the seraph to make a foe of Dominic, it > stand to reason of Dom gets all broody, Lawrence might send someone to > "check him out." Laurence is Dominic's staunchest ally. From this point, I'd have to say your three examples as to Why He'd Be Found Out are a STRONG case for why it's perfectly plausible he's a Balseraph...the three people who might have uncovered it are 1) himself, 2) driven out by him, and 3) made a close ally. > I think you are confused about which angel is insane. Thats Gabriel, not > Dominic. Nah..this view of Dominic isn't the least bit insane. This one gives more basis to some of his `wilder' actions than any other presented, really...(I'd also point out that a Balseraph doesn't HAVE to lie constantly...though I would be inclined to suggest that, in fact, he DOESN'T have his Seraphic Resonance back. Who's checking up on DOMINIC, after all?) The only serious problem he's likely to run into is Michael...who dislikes him enough and is vain enough and, well, a Seraph enough, that he very well might - which could be why Dominic tried to throw him out. (I like the idea, actually, that Michael and Yves DO know...but a public trial would throw Heaven into such absolute chaos that it's probably what Lucifer had in mind when he put/kept Dominic there in the first place...so for now, they try to minimize the damage and come up with a plan...) > Add me to the list of people who thinks Dominic gets a bad rap. I feel that > these days it is "Cool" to bash authority figures. I find that sad. White Having dropped out of the Dominic Is/Isn't Cool argument a while ago on the grounds that it's not going to go anywhere (the only reasonable answer is, "He's however he is in a particular GM's campaign"; it's been well proven he can be quite reasonably done both ways - and I personally use both, concurrently), I just want to emphasize my response on this is as to the adventure-seed possibility of him being a Balseraph, which is intriguing on a very different light. {Now, I'm unlikely to use it in an adventure, though I like the idea of having some rumors going around to the effect...dark mutterings among those not quite Fallen but listening to the other side, gradually gaining strength among the resentful...Relievers casting suspicious glances upon Dominic's Triads...finally bursting when an Outcast spits back to one, "Who are YOU to Judge me, Demon-servant?"} Dominic as Balseraph (Demon Prince of Deception? Corruption? The Inquisition, perhaps?) Choir Attunement comments/addendums; Seraph: The Seraphim of Dominic Resonance does not, of course, work on Dominic, and their Resonance when invoked under Judgment's Name is subtly twisted to reveal the Truth as they, the Seraph, -want- to see it. Note that in all cases, it is still true...but Dominic's subtle corruption of his servants has colored their Resonance to reflect their own minds, rather than their subject's. (Eg. if they get a 3, rather than getting why the subject thinks they lied, you get why YOU think they lied...) Cherubim: No modifications, of course; giving his Cherubim the same thing Djinn get (not having to care if their subject gets harmed) strikes me as a perfectly demonic thing to do as it stands...with the note that, yes, it still only applies to those Attuned in Dominic's name. Ofanim: Again, it obviously doesn't work on Dominic himself, otherwise no change. (With the comment that, according to the Malakim resonance, the Ofanim one only works on humans, anyway...be nice if it mentioned that under the Ofanim, if that's the case - I'm thinking the difference may be more that Ofanim detect Discord while Malakim pick up Dissonance..) Elohim: Only the emphasis that their Resonance is SPECIFIED, in the rules, to not care whether the guilt is justified or not..only if they feel it. Dominic, of course, feels no guilt at all for what he's doing. Malakim: Again, it doesn't work on Dominic. The further note being that, yes, he does encourage the slaughter of Malakim over their Falling - this suggests that, perhaps, it really IS true that Malakim simply DON'T Fall, and he therefor works to see that they are instead attacked by their own kind at the faintest excuse...the other option is that he instigated this in hopes that, as it has worked in several other cases, if he came down really hard, he could push a few into running to the other side. It hasn't fallen out that way yet, and he can't put on the heat too much without risking Laurence, who could indeed be a serious risk to his cover, so... Kyriotates: Again, no comment needed; their hosts don't even have to be under Judgment. If they have any Discord at all, the Kyrio gets to treat them as badly as a Shedim does...get 'em used to it. Mercurians: Are, strangely enough, a little more difficult to seriously corrupt than most...even Fallen Mercurians still love humanity. But showing them how bad humans can be (the addition to their natural Resonance that, whenever they use it, they find out not only the happy, useful bits they want to know, but are also shown the humans MOST deviant behavior...) may be a start. And, again, encouraging them a bit towards their Dissonance by giving them his usual exception and LETTING them spill the blood of `the guilty'...which, with that hitch in their Resonance, could be almost anyone, for who among us is wholly innocent? As to his Servitor Attunements, I'll just point out that when it comes down to it, neither of them is that big a deal, from his point of view. Okay, let them know human law - it's cute, keeps them out of trouble down there, and it specifically says that Dominic has `little interest in the laws of mankind'. As to "Heavenly Judgment"...oh, it LOOKS nasty, but big deal? You whup on their Vessel big time, but since when does Dominic care about Vessels? It's only really useful against Outcasts (who many demons enjoy beating up on) and Renegades (when he's cooperating with Asmodeus..) Need I go into the uselessness of his Distinctions? Great - maybe you can force a Reliever or a human to confess. Those aren't what Dominic's really here for. If it can be used to put a weak willed Angel under his jurisdiction, great, but I don't think he worries much about his Friends and Vassals. The Masters of Law? Hah. Hang out in New York and just try, for ten minutes, being automatically aware of every jaywalker, litterbug, hubcap thief, and con game in 30 yards. Bleah. If anything, Dominic gives this distinction to Angels who are doing TOO good a job...it keeps them distracted going after those petty human injustices he doesn't care about. Oh, and I'll make the small comment that you only ever see Dominic when HE feels like showing up. Not when you summon him. This eliminates any risk of some Servitor calling on him when he's, say, checking in with HIS Superior... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:59:16 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: FW: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) I'm sorry-this is just too frustratingly cool to not be available somewhere. I know SJG has made a decision to not have the IN universe parallel the INS/MV universe, but these little bits that are dropped here and there-this, Stella Inquisitorius, the gun that shoots Lucifer's semen-just make me want to see more of this universe, separate from the IN universe. Has anyone actually got any of the French stuff? Is it as cool as it sounds? Would I sound like a total fanatic if I considered getting some of it-the basic set at least-and having it translated? :) steve - -----Original Message----- From: R. Coon [SMTP:robcoon@u.washington.edu] Sent: Monday, August 04, 1997 9:40 AM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Sam Kington wrote: > Dominic and Asmodeus don't know. God does, and He's quite pleased with > the situation: Janus/Valefor is a particularly striking example of the > Good/Evil duality, and if ever He wants to stop the War and strive > towards forgiveness, he's got a good starting point. I don't understand at all how ANYONE could miss the correlation. I mean, look at Janus's NAME-the two-faced Roman god?!? What kind of excuse can be made for this? Is God clouding the minds of the angels and demons? For what purpose? Just curiousity mixed with a little confusion... Rob Coon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:20:47 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy >>>What about court martials if Patton were arrogant and MacArthur was off forming another army that would probably help the Allies?<<< Arrogant to the point of disrespect to his Commander in Chief, or disobeying orders from the War Department because he felt he knew better.....certainly. And forming another army using illegal methods, sure. There's only so far you can take the analogy, but my point was, just because someone is an Archangel and Heaven and Hell are in the middle of a War doesn't mean they should be above scrutiny. >>>>First, as I've pointed out repeatedly, it's a matter of opinion whether he really "screwed up". God came down and told him so.<<< No, he didn't. He pardoned Michael because Michael was needed, he didn't say Dominic was wrong. >>>>Secondly, as I've pointed out repeatedly, even if he was wrong, that's two >or three mistakes in several thousand years. Looks like a pretty >respectable record to me. >>>How many successes of his have we seen? How many failures?<<< Obviously the book isn't going to catalog every success & failure. However, common sense says that if Dominic was making mistakes on a regular basis, there would be a lot more unrest in Heaven. And he also suffers from the cop syndrome...if you're doing a great job by preventing trouble before it happens, no one notices and they start to say you're unnecessary and should be removed.....make one mistake and they say you're a menace and should be removed. I think a scenario that would be interesting would be if Dominic *does* start getting carried away and pushes things too hard....it's possible this process has begun. (Depends on just how "Bad" you want to play Dominic.) But Judgment and the Inquisition are not evil in themselves. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:10:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: What *would* you buy? (Re: IN> Why I didn't buy Night Music) > Well, considering that Night Music is already published, and the other > books of the Revelations cycle are probably in edit mode right now... > If SJG pulled out all the stuff and packaged up the Superior > expansions, and the other rules-stuff (humans, non-Marches > stuff from Marches, etc.), would you buy *that*? Would there > be enough people who'd want all their Superior expansions in > one place to make it profitable? Yes. It's much like the old and not-so-old Shadowrun sourcebooks, which I played for many years. There was the Mage sourcebook, the Rigger sourcebook, etc. etc. All it contained was information, character templates, expanded rules, that sort of thing. But no adventures. Worked for those of us who never used the packaged adventures anyways. > *I'd* buy it -- especially in hardcover! (I love my hardcover > In Nomine, I just *love* it... It stays open where I want it, > the cover doesn't peel, I can drop it and not worry about > bending the cover...) Me too. > > But would enough? Could they stick frills in it that would > make it even more appealing to people who didn't buy the > Revalations cycle, and not annoy the people who did? > (A check-digit summery, for instance, on a photocopiable page...) Oh, man, would that be nice. *nod so much my head almost falls off* I've seen supplements done two ways - the AD&D\Shadowrun method with specific money-sucking sourcebooks without too much background but hordes of rules and expansions, with the adventures seperate, and those like Call of Cthulhu, which sort of tosses expansions in their games along the way. I find the CoC method frustrating, because usually I want a book of spells and I don't care about Dunwich in the 1890's. But is there one? Nope. Thus I own very few CoC books, and many of the aforementioned. I prefer specific sourcebooks. The Great Manual of Archangels I could see far more useful then a sourcebook containing a handful of new rules/expansions/clarifications and the setting for Lansing. My feeling on it is that I can go to the bookstore and buy a map for a buck, or a tourbook for $5. I will probably never go to Austin, and trust me, Michigan has enough places for demons to hang out it ALL BY ITSELF. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:35:24 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> S. of Hell -> Demons & a Saints ? (Night Music) John Karakash tries to fit a smiley into non-Internet speech: "Try saying it with a really sarcastic voice. If necessary add 'Not!' or 'Yeah, right!' onto the end. O=)" Actually...I think the phrase yer thinking of is "It could happen!" as spoken by commedienne Judy Tenuta. yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 14:11:22 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) - --------------E4D98252A2A860423765CBF3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam Kington wrote: > Anyway, Janus became an Archangel after a particularly spectacular > theft > (from right under the nose of Kronos himself, allegedly); then started > > working his way up the Demonic ranks, to eventually become a Demon > Prince after a spectacular theft from right under the nose of Yves > himself ;-). "After that, God remembered of Noah and all kind of wild and domestic animals that were with him inside the ark, and God made a wind blows upon the Earth and the waters beginned to lower." ~ Gen 8:1 In the original hebrew text, the word for 'wind' is ru'-ahh, which can be also translated as 'active force' or 'spirit'. It lead us to that: God sent a spirit to blow away the Flood waters. A Wind spirit. Janus??? It could be. I see Janus as being pretty young by then (we're in Genesis, remember!), and almost overwhelmed by the responsability... But he did it. He dried the whole world. That's a great occasion for him to became an Archangel, don't you think?? Andre - --------------E4D98252A2A860423765CBF3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam Kington wrote:
Anyway, Janus became an Archangel after a particularly spectacular theft
(from right under the nose of Kronos himself, allegedly); then started
working his way up the Demonic ranks, to eventually become a Demon
Prince after a spectacular theft from right under the nose of Yves
himself ;-).
        "After that, God remembered of Noah and all kind of wild and domestic animals that were with him inside the ark, and God made a wind blows upon the Earth and the waters beginned to lower." ~ Gen 8:1 
        In the original hebrew text, the word for 'wind' is ru'-ahh, which can be also translated as 'active force' or 'spirit'. It lead us to that: God sent a spirit to blow away the Flood waters. A Wind spirit. Janus??? It could be. I see Janus as being pretty young by then (we're in Genesis, remember!), and almost overwhelmed by the responsability... But he did it. He dried the whole world. That's a great occasion for him to became an Archangel, don't you think??

                Andre
  - --------------E4D98252A2A860423765CBF3-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:16:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Know your Diabolicals 15: Christopher At 10:23 AM -0400 8/3/97, Adam Canning wrote: >Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [...] >That is a better epigram than I managed and it fits what I see the >situation as. > >Beth, if its not too much trouble could you swap the above description for >the one I did when you put KYD 15 on your web site. No prob. Got it marked. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:08:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Catholic Church At 9:59 PM -0400 8/3/97, speaks@mindspring.com wrote: >At 05:35 PM 8/3/97 -0400, David Edelstein wrote: > >>For that matter, Archangels are in a position to *know* whether homosexuals >>are automatically damned to Hell, aren't they? > >How? Not to many archangels get to roam hell to take a census. Even if a >homosexual is *IN* hell, that doesn't mean homosexuality is what got him >there. No one gets to go to the higher reaches of heaven, so you can't go >see if there is a homosexual in heaven. Unless s/he's a Bodhi. Or achieves Destiny. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:08:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: IN> IN PBEM:Need more Demons... I need a couple of more Demon player charcters for a PBEM if anyone is interested. Please mail me privatly. What sick person put an "S" in lisp? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 14:17:25 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> S. of Hell -> Demons & a Saints ? (Night Music) John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > On Aug 2, 9:47am, Grim88 wrote: [SNIP] > > The second thing I wanted to address was this: Under Laurances expanded > > write-up, it is stated that Saints are reincarnated and are born again and > > lose their memories until a tramatic event happens each time they go back to > > earth. In the Saints section, it mentions buying a Role and vessel, which > > seems to imply this is not the case. Again, I ask the question, "what up wit > > dat?" > > Ummmm.... I don't know. Lemme get back to you on that one! Well, clearly they need a vessel, as they're being reincarnated in a new body and the old one won't do. And if you're being sent down to the Corporeal plane from up high in an artificial body, having a Role (or not) is part of the whole deal. And losing your memories isn't problematic either: you make the conscious decision to be reincarnated, in *this* vessel and with *this* Role, and then *bang* it happens, and you forget until the traumatic event. Maybe this gap of forgetfulness is what is needed to make sure the Saint becomes part of the Symphony again - - while the Saint himself doesn't know he's special, the world gets used to having him around. Then he wakes up, realises he can do strange Godly stuff, and by this time the Symphony is so used to having him around and not doing anything strange, that it doesn't notice when he changes his pattern. (Think of it like an organ donor process - eventually this foreign body is absorbed and accepted, given enough time and expensive drugs). On this line of thought, if you could pull this trick off with *Angels* - - now *that* would be something. (It would be game unbalancing as well, though.) Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati If you cannot convince them, confuse them. - Harry S Truman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 16:51:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Children and Factions David Edelstein wrote: > Humans are born *selfish*, because there is no natural reason to care > about anyone other than oneself and one's immediate kin. And children > are incapable of higher-order moral reasoning. In other words, easy > prey for Factions. To me, "selfish" implies you know about the other people's rights and needs, but don't give a damn about them. Children simply don't realize that those other points of view exist, I think, so it seems overly harsh to call them "selfish." Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:00:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> S. of Hell -> Demons & a Saints ? (Night Music) At 6:58 AM -0400 8/4/97, Adam Canning wrote: >From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" >> > "Stories abound among the Hellsword of those who have made >themselves a place in the Pit after death, and have even become demons. >It can happen. But the truth is that Soldiers are usually Fated to >die horrific deaths and to spend eternity screaming in Hell."< > >I think you are missing the sentance "It can happen." in your analyisis. A Balseraph snuck in and typed it in while the editor was in the bathroom. Trust Karakash. (Otherwise, a Hellsworn Soldier could turn into a demon, and later be Redeemed into an angel. Roundabout way, but hey...) [Hey, Karakash, what did I tell you about that line when I first saw it? };) Didn't I say it was gonna need FAQing or errating?] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:31:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Enquirer (A Publication of Kobal Enterprises, Ink.) At 7:51 AM -0400 8/2/97, Adam Canning wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy >>She goes around resonating Malakim for >their Needs to kill demons and then reveals her nature and throws >herself on their swords, potentially gathering Geasa.< > >Her problems come when she runs into a Malakim of Flowers or Destiny, >Either of whom is more likely to resonate a need to redeem a demon and >either of whom are going to be quite happy to hopld her down while >explaining why herbal teas make you a lot less cranky or why it is your >destiny to fight against the forces of darkness. Well, Malakim can't suffer evil to live, but I suppose that they could rationalize it as "If we can redeem her, she won't be evil, so we're just keeping her alive while it's expedient to try...." Walks kinda close to dissonance, but... K.K. probably gets really frustrated by Malakim of Flowers... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:35:25 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: IN> Spawn as an example of recruiting... On the spur of the moment, I decided to see the midday showing of Spawn while I was in Japantown on Saturday. Passable movie (though I wouldn't bring young kids to it, especially if you like movies with a logical moral message). Anyway, one thing that immediately made me think of IN was the idea that both sides are on the lookout for mortals who are really, really good at things like...killing. It's a bit like the need for that army guy's soul in Prophecy - in this case, hell needs a leader for its armies. Actually, Spawn is an interesting example of several types of recruiting. Hell goes to a lot of effort to get master-killer Simmons knocked off so he can come back as Spawn. The Violator also recruits spymaster Win in a more traditional fashion. I just liked the idea of both sides trying to get a hold of certain special Soldiers. Mind you, if you now have an urge to rush out and see Spawn, I heartily recommend going to the cheapest matinee showing you can find. Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:33:29 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: FW: Janus/Valefor same person (Was: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph) Steven Feldon wrote: [snip] > Has anyone actually got any of the French stuff? Is it as cool as it > sounds? Would I sound like a total fanatic if I considered getting some > of it-the basic set at least-and having it translated? :) [snip] Well, I was back in France a month or so ago and picked up most of the French stuff. And IMHO, the SJGames version is *way* better. The French version has more of a sense of humour - e.g. Jesus is an Archangel, and is the most powerful because he's Daddy's boy, even though he screwed up his first mission so badly that he decisively split the Jews and the Christians when he was supposed to bring the Jews round to Christianity. There's a fun quote: "That didn't even hurt" *But* it's almost impossible to run seriously. There's no Falling, no resonances, it's more or less AD&D with Angels and Demons. It's a *lot* more combat-orientated (nearly everyone has magic weapons that behave like Laurence's Scabbard attunement), a lot less subtle (no cold war, no real reason why the whole thing is kept secret although it obviously is). Oh, and there are no Choirs and Bands either - you're either an Angel or a Demon, and that's it. As an example: David's write-up (he's called Daniel in the french version) has the following quotes: What Daniel thinks about... Humans: The military and skinheads are OK. The others are boring. Animals: I don't like animals Violence: Violence is cool. Politics: Eh? As another example: Andre Ribeiro mentioned Genesis 8:1 as a possible explanation of how Janus came to be (promoted to an Archangel after successfully dispelling the Flood). This is a far more impressive reason, IMHO, than just stealing something big. Also, I get the impression that the SJGames people might well have thought of this, whereas I'm pretty sure the French version never would have. So: the SJGames version is far more intricate, offers much more scope for intelligent roleplaying, and is far easier to run if you're not aiming for a Toon-type angels-with-big-guns adventure. (NB: I haven't really looked through Stella Inquisitoris - In Nomine in space -, so there might be some fun stuff in there.) Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) On Sun, 3 Aug 1997 speaks@mindspring.com wrote: > I am sure the Order of Preachers (Dominicans), a well established branch of > the Catholic church will be pleased to know their name is so forboding. Now > if you want to go on with this. The Holy Office of the Inquisition was run > by the Dominicans. Neat. Now I have justification to dislike the name. :) > I think you are confused about which angel is insane. Thats Gabriel, not > Dominic. No, I am -not- confused, and I don't particularly care for the way you said this. Personally, I dislike the entire notion of insane angels, and so I don't use it. > Add me to the list of people who thinks Dominic gets a bad rap. I feel that > these days it is "Cool" to bash authority figures. I find that sad. White > Wolf does it all the time. I don't want In Nomine to be another World of > Darkness. True, only someone with power can abuse it, but that doesn't mean > everyone who has power does. Of course, I don't use Dominic in my games, either. I've replaced him with an Elohite Archangel of Justice = Raphael. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:27:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Invocation Bonuses (Re: IN> Marc the Smuggler) At 3:00 AM -0400 8/4/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Then wouldn't a copy of a free trade agreement be a better item for the >invocation modifier list?<<< > >I'd certainly give a bonus for that. This brings up something I've been thinking about... The Invocation Modifiers listed surely aren't the *only* modifiers that would work, right? They're just common, useful examples. (Says so for the Princes.) For instance, if you want to talk to Jean, I'd probably give a decent bonus for sneaking into the middle of the Boston Museum of Science Electricity demonstration and turning it on... (I only saw it once, more's the pity -- a room with some big electrical-spark-generator thingies, and a cage in the middle where the lecturer sits, controls the stuff, and probably goes deaf...) But wouldn't that be great? The whole Museum is a place to learn science (okay, watered down for the public, so?), and this is a demonstration given over to man-made lightning. Probably up there for a +4 or +5 to get him, right? Likewise, the ever popular Andre (or Andrea, in a fem-vessel?) might be perfectly happy with an X-rated URL with a lot of hits on it... (A +1, say?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:15:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #274 At 10:23 PM -0400 8/3/97, Gregory Littmann wrote: >> >[...] all the different >> >kinds of love. I think I'm going to sit in a corner and cry now ... :( >> >> Love. >> Lust. >Is a pretty negative word that I wouldn't class under even a broad >interpretation of "love". Hey, a little healthy lust can be fun! Especially with one's spouse! Mind, that kind of desire isn't *Andre's* Word... >> Friendship. >Is reasonable - O.K.. >> Infatuation. >Ain't a kind of love. What, you've never had a crush on somebody in high-school? Infatuation is a kind of love. A really shallow, unrealistic, good-way- to-get-heartbreak-and-angst kind of love, but... It's an emotional attachment to another person, where you want to be with him and want good things to happen to him, right? >Nor is >> Attraction.> Compassion. >> Empathy.> Sympathy.> Kindness.> Gallantry.> Chivalry.> Benevolence.> >Philanthropy. > >I can feel/show any of these to people I don't love. Love is Empathy cranked up to high. Spousal love usually includes a dose of lust/desire, had better include friendship, empathy, compassion, attraction, sympathy, kindness (big doses), gallantry (when appropriate)... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Coon" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic is not a Bad Guy On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, Andrew Getting wrote: > At 10:22 AM 8/3/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: > >At 01:27 AM 8/3/97 -0500, Andrew Getting wrote: > >>I disagree. The triatic method of the Inquisiton involves > >>the loss of all privacy, dignity, and respect for the accused. > > > >I don't understand why you say this. I think that the Seraph could be very > >respectful. The others don't ask questions. They just keep you from running. > > Seraphim aren't respectful. They're the Most Holy, and Inquisitors. > Having a Cherubim bound to you against your will, so that he knows > where you are at all times, is obviously a breach of privacy. > I would agree to the loss of privacy; however, this complaint implies that there is something that needs hiding. Why would ANY angel need privacy, other than to hide things? Actually, this is an extension of my perception of privacy, in general, as I don't see any reason for it in an ideal society. To need privacy in Heaven is to imply that Heaven is not ideal; and while this may be true, and a valid point, it does imply negative things about the denizens of Heaven, and especially those concerned with enforcing the rules. So, to sum: to require privacy implies distrust and/or dislike of Dominic and his servitors. As to the loss of the other two, I would not be able to say, as I do not see the correlation. It is my perception that this would not be the case. Rob Coon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:43:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Falls the Inquisitor (adventure seed/mad rambling) On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Captain Nemo wrote: > > As long as he's very, very careful -- and he > > will be, because he believes himself to be an angel and acts > > accordingly -- it shouldn't show up. > > No, not necessarily. If he feels himself to be an angel, that gives > him *less* reason to be careful, not more. E.g., there's no need to > avoid disturbing the Symphony around Yves's Malakim if he thinks of > himself as an angel. I meant this to mean that he'd avoid acting demonically because he still thought he was an angel. Why would any good angel want to act like a demon? > Neat idea. Realistically speaking, impossible to pull off for > centuries on end. *Someone*, *sometime* would get suspicious, and the > Balseraph would be discovered, even with the little boost from > Lucifer for Dom to get his original Seraphic resonance back. Heck, I suppose you could make it into an adventure by making it a more recent occurrence. Dom hasn't been seen in Heaven lately and his catherdral is turning away all visitors. Official word from his servitors is that Dom is on an extended trip to earth, and no he can't be contacted as he's traveling incognito. He's personally investigating this disturbing increase in angels falling, and he's quite busy, so please go away. Of course, angels -have- been falling at an increased rate. Dom's new and 'improved' inquisition has seen to that. The PCs are called in to investigate by a Superior -- most likely Michael, though Gabriel, Yves or Eli can also work -- because the AA feels that a recently condemned servitor didn't deserve such judgement, being such a model angel and all. PCs investigate, find out that such outstanding angels -are- being targeted...and, well, mayhem ensues. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:58:26 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Last Session's Qestions... > * When you buy Discord at creation, how many points do > you get per level? 3 pts. per level (p. 49) up to level 6. (Yeah, it's kinda hard to find...) > * Can you raise your characteristics levels at character > creation? What is the cost of it? Officially, no. In your particular campaign you may run things differently. The cost is 10 points per Force or 3 points per individual characteristic. (from the FAQ) > * When their hosts sleep, do the Sheddim go to the > Marches (and: Do they need a Will roll to sleep as the other > Celestials?)?? If yes, in what form do they appear there?? Good question! I have no idea! =) I'll try to take a stab at it, though... The relationship between a Shedite and his host is a unique one: unlike other forms of possession, both the host spirit and the invading one are still in the body. As long as the Shedite wants his host to stay awake, the vessel doesn't need sleep like any other vessel. But if the Shedite _does_ want the vessel to sleep (and the host doesn't disagree), sleep comes naturally. As long as the host is asleep, the Shedite is in the hosts dreamscape and _cannot leave_ unless he gives up possession of the host. A third scenario is when the host manages to beat off the demon (i.e. makes a Will roll to avoid being led into evil acts) and tries to stay awake. The demon can force sleep with a Will roll but the victim doesn't get any bonuses for days of possession (due to tiredness). Stimulants can give a modifier for this roll. Note that most victims won't know that the rest will re-strengthen the demon, or even realize they are possessed and will fall asleep without a fight. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:34:27 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Maarath, Familiar Outcast from Fire From: Nana Yaw Ofori > If neccessary, he can use the Celestial Song of Tongues to let the authorities know what's going on..< It shouldn't be that necessary familiars vessels[p192] like all celestial animal vessels can talk]and all celestials start with one language at Level 3 wwhich in this case would have been English anyway. [p75]. Also are the Seatle authorities really that blase about recieving telepathic mesages from a parakeet they once met. Hed be slightly better sticking to using the phone. It's a nice character though and I may end up using it as a henchman for one of my soldier's at some time. Adam Caninng Dahak@Compuserve.Com I'm beginning to suspect Legion of being the Demon Prince of Borg, which raises some questions about Archangel Beth. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #279 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.