From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Aug 6 23:45:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02270 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:45:59 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA06590 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:38:33 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:38:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199708070238.VAA06590@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #283 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 283 In this digest: IN> Interludes Re: IN> Satire or straight? IN> Wedsday evening get together before Gen_Con Re: IN> IN Cities Re: IN> Relic Weapons Re: IN> >Samniga's write up in Night Music Throws the relativistic styles out the Re: IN> Why Humans work for Angels IN> Lilim Geasa Re: IN> Relic Weapons Re: IN> Laurence and the Catholic Church Re: IN> Adventure report: Slugs of Vapula [Long] IN> Dominic IN> Relic Weapons IN> The Seven Skulls of Satan Re: IN> The Seven Skulls of Satan Re: IN> Dominic IN> Re: GenCon IN> Mail failure IN> Soldiers, and so on (again) Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Adventure report: Slugs of Vapula [Long] IN> Contributions and Point Awards IN> Dupe post. IN> Character creation quick reference sheets Re: Non-omnipotent God (Was: Re: IN> Dark In Nomine) Re: IN>Paradox Angels Re: IN> Dupe post. IN>Um..ok need some Angels..... IN> The First Family ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:05:26 -0400 From: "Joshua Knorr" Subject: IN> Interludes While going through some stuff I had worked up for my campaign, I found a few things that, when modified, might be useful as general "world-type" material. More on the First Family and an IN Chicago when I get the chance... Interludes Everyone wants a place to unwind, to relax, talk shop with a few buddies, or maybe talk about anything but work for a while. Maybe a few drinks, some nice music, a little flirtation with the opposite sex. Even celestials like to kick back now and then, and when they do, there's a place that never closes, serves every kind of drink imaginable, and offers the best music in the known universe. Welcome to Interludes. A little song, a little dance ============================= Interludes is a place quite unlike any other. A nightclub/bar/concert hall/neutral meeting ground, the very existence of Interludes baffles celestial scholars on both sides of the War. No one is quite sure in which plane it lies, although the safe money puts it somewhere in the Marches. Among its more notable features is an insanely large bar, staffed by a combination of 'normal' celestials and rarely-seen ethereal spirits (which adds credulity to the hypothesis that Interludes exists on the Ethereal side of things); scattered throughout the halls are room dedicated to every form of music imaginable, from orchestral to jazz to techno to, well, anything. And the greatest performers in all of history regularly drop in to dazzle the crowd. Interludes is equally accessible to both angels and demons (although this does not translate to 'easily accessible'), and all patrons are expected to behave themselves when visiting. Violence, or for that matter any form of overt conflict, is not allowed. This truce is partially enforced by Interludes' mysterious 'owner', named Adam, and partially by the fact that the natural resonance of celestials is severely dampened. The Man in Command ================== No one is quite sure what to make of the guy who calls himself Adam. While he freely admits to being proprietor of Interludes, that's pretty much all you'll get out of him. Any other inquiries into Adam's path, identity, affiliation, or the origins of Interludes are politely deferred. When asked if he is that Adam, he simply flashes an amused smile. Adam exhibits powers which defy understanding, including (not limited to) telekinesis, telepathy, teleportation, and a lot more. He's definitely no average mortal, and no ethereal spirit, and if he is celestial, no one knows who he works for. He seems more powerful than most angels and demons, although it is difficult to figure out how powerful any being is within the confines of Interludes. He takes an interest (or pretends to) in the affairs of his customers. More than one angel has found himself telling his life story to Adam when all he planned to do was stop in for a quick drink! He has been known to shelter a celestial (for a while) who was in trouble with a superior. On occasion, he even offers them a job helping out in the club until "other arrangements" can be made. Adam does not appear to have any solid loyalties to either side, helping and hindering both angelic and Diabolical in turn. He has been known to defy even Demon Princes and Archangels, producing the most famous story (which may even be true) about the time Adam kicked out Dominic himself after giving shelter to an outcast Malakite. "The only one who understands Adam," the saying goes, "is Adam." Game Mechanics ============== There are three ways to get to Interludes. The first is the hard way: similar to ascending to either the Ethereal or Celestial planes, a Will roll is required. However, given its unusual nature, Interludes is somewhat harder to get to: the first time you go, there is a -3 penalty! The second time, the penalty is -2. The third, -1. After that, the modifiers begin to go in the opposite direction: when you've been there enough times, getting to Interludes is decidedly easier than going to the other Planes. You may also follow someone else traveling to Interludes: if they succeed, you succeed, and get the experience of the trip (for later attempts). The second way involves finding a special tether. Interludes tethers tend to be rather ephemeral - they sprout up near places of intense artistic release or inspiration. A really good Dead show might sprout a tether for the duration of the performance, and maybe a few hours after, while the studio where an artist had a major flash of inspiration might also provide a gateway to Interludes. These tethers are evident to any celestial, no Perception roll required. The third way is by the personal blessing of Adam himself. Occasionally he gives out rather unique pins, in the shape of a linked set of treble and base clefs. The bearer may travel to Interludes at any time, but may not bring anyone else with him. When someone goes to Interludes, his/her vessel vanishes. When going to Interludes, patrons take the form of their most recently inhabited vessel. NOTE: If you've been kicked out by Adam, there's nothing you can do. If he doesn't want you around, tough. Inside Interludes, celestial resonances are severely dampened. Subtract 4 from the check digit of a successful resonance roll. Also, given the invasive nature of demonic resonances, they may attract additional attention from Adam himself. Superiors may not be summoned within Interludes, although the superiors, like any other celestial beings, are welcome. Soldiers and undead, however, are not allowed in. When asked about this policy, Adam once replied, "It's best if the audience doesn't see the strings." On the flip side of the coin, however, it seems that celestials are, for some reason, considerably less restricted by their natures: it is more difficult to acquire dissonance in Interludes (just how much harder is left for the GM to decide). Also, dissonance rolls are unneccessary: angels cannot Fall, and demons cannot acquire Discord, within Interludes (on the other hand, there are no Interventions here, either). Joshua Knorr A conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who has just been booked. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Mowery Subject: Re: IN> Satire or straight? On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Emily K. Dresner wrote: > > > >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 09:34:22 -0400 (EDT) > > >From: "Emily K. Dresner" > > > > > You know, satire doesn't necessarily equate with 'funny, light plot'. Or > > rather, it can be funny without being light - part of the thing with > > satire is that you can use the humour to brush against some rather dark > > issues which would be difficult to deal with in a straight way. > > At this point I'll call an end and say that it's a matter of taste and > style. I very much enjoy British satire, but I think (for myself) trying > to keep up that sort of wit would get very difficult in a long run > campaign, and for my players, I would get pretty predictable. > > On the other hand, I don't expect everyone and their cousin to be a pack > of drooling Sandman addicts. When I think "satire", my first thought is "A Modest Proposal". In its time, AMP was reviled by many obviously congenitally brain-damaged people who thought Jonathan Swift was *serious*. He chose to take a real problem and make it funny (to those people who got the joke, anyway) through exaggeration. And can you exaggerate something more than to make any minor human squabble a matter of great import in the celestial struggle? For instance, let's say I have a campaign set in Hollywood, and a director known for his ultraviolent film-making style is getting his own TV show. He wants to use the show as a forum for showing what he doesn't in his movies: the true impact of violence on society. Angels and demons would then be set to making sure that the show was on at 8pm, on at 10pm, never aired at all, aired just like the director wanted, or gave up on its social message and just went for the violence. Just the idea of a bunch of angels and demons taking seriously their own efforts to muck with network programming and the production of a television show, to me, is satire. The adventure in Night Music, to me, is satire not just because of the setting, but because there is not only a Demon of Hardcore, he's trying to raise his station through a rock song that summons the devil! It's funny because some people think it's true. The same people who thought that Mr. Swift advocated eating Irish babies. Kevin "Professor Bobo" Mowery______________kemowery@freenet.columbus.oh.us "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals." --Kay, "Men In Black" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:28:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> Wedsday evening get together before Gen_Con @ For those that are interested How about getting together at the food court at Grand Avenue Mall at 7 Wedsday evening? I will be there wearing a brown photographers vest with a winged cat on the lapel. For more info drop me a line. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:45:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: IN> IN Cities On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>I would be interested in seeing your write up, as a matter of fact > I would be interesdted in most city write ups. Idea, why don't folks do In > Nomine write ups for theyr local areas and send them to the net.<<< > My (very unofficial) write-up of In Nomine New York City is on my web page. > And I'll hearby volunteer to put an In Nomine version of Louisville up as I get time, and assuming a group of MIBs don't tap me on the shoulder and tell me that it's already in the works, so kindly don't do it. :-) I'll post the URL when I get something useful together. Still waiting for Night Music, and getting to see the UPS strike firsthand (Louisville is a major UPS air hub). *** From the Desktop of Mark Allen Kinney mailto:alberich@iglou.com | http://www.iglou.com/nations "Okay, Plan B: Let's kill each other." -- Caster Troy, "Face/Off" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:06:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Relic Weapons > However, you're right - there seems to be no point to a HP/1 unless it's > errata'd that CD*level is the weapon's power. (Even then, a .44 would Well, there are a couple minor advantages, like the ability to track it down if it gets lost (negligible at Level 1, admittedly) and, of course, the eensy option of having a pistol in Celestial combat... > OTOH, HP/6 is *worth* 36 pints, especially with high skill. 'Course, after 36 points, you don't have any points left to get a high skill. Or bullets, which might come in handy. But I thought they were only 3 points per Level? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:31:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> >Samniga's write up in Night Music Throws the relativistic styles out the > the various AA/DPs have spent time in history masquerading, so to speak, in > more, shall we say, 'authoritative' guises. In the Greek pantheon alone, > we've got Saminga filling in for Hades, Novalis for Demeter, I got some impression from the book that that might've happened, but...hey, what a shocker for Uriel, huh? Uriel [Bursting through the door, flaming sword raised, the Host of Heaven at his back all screaming for blood]: DIE YOU HEATHEN PAGAN GODLING!! I'LL SMASH YOU TO BITS AND SEND YOU SPIRALLING DOWN TO...to...oh, hi, Mike. Um, listen, I was about to go after Demeter next, and after that embarrasing snafu with `Kuan-Yin', I don't want to annoy Novalis AGAIN... (Quick notes; yes, I know `heathen pagan' is kind of redundant...and Kuan-Yin is a Goddess of Mercy and Healing.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:45:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Why Humans work for Angels [Snip 20 or so reasons why humans work for angels] An excellent reply! The need for this sort of conversation cannot be overstressed. If the overall conflict of the game is a war, then mortal souls are the terrain that the celestials fight over. To that end I am struggling to make mortals much more center stage. I would say about 3/4ths of your motives are already in evidence in my mortal npcs, but you gave me about three cool ideas. If that sounds mediocre...it isn't! Trust me, I need every good idea I can get, and rare is the person who gives me three at once. A BIG THANK YOU! I might add to your list MUTUAL INTEREST....I have some college age mortals who have been recruited. The philosopher of the group is quite appreciative of out Angel of Ives. The mortal who was considering a military career is awed by our resident Malakim of Micheal. - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:48:14 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Lilim Geasa In reply to: >>>I can't see a resisted Geas inflicting dissonance on anyone but a Lilim. Dissonance results from violating one's *own* celestial nature, and failing to invoke a Geas isn't going to be dissonant for non-Lilim. (What if a mortal invoked a Geas and failed? Mortals can't incur dissonance.) I think a Geas invoked by a non-Lilim loses the power to inflict dissonance. Yes, it offers Lilim a way to avoid risking dissonance for their Geases, but it also adds a level of complication for them to reap any benefits from fulfilling Needs, and how many Lilim will want to go around fulfilling Needs and then letting someone *else* call in the sucker's debts?<<< IMO, the 'backlash' experienced when a Geas is resisted is part of the Geas, not the Lilim. I tend to view the Lilim resonance as being able to inflict a Geas on others by fulfilling their Needs. One of the side effects of these Geasa is that while they can force the victim to do something, if they fail they spring back at the holder. The main reason (I think) that the backlash is described in the Lilim dissonance section is because Lilim are the most likely ones to use Geasa, as very few Lilim are going to risk their butts getting a Geas on someone and then just trade it away, unless the payment is really good. Most non-Lilim have forgotten that the dissonance doesn't only apply to Lilim. Therefore if a non-Lilim invokes a Geas which is subsequently resisted, the Geas bounces back to injure them. It's all part of the risks of trying to force people to do what you want them to. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:54:42 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> Relic Weapons > 'Course, after 36 points, you don't have any points left to get a > high skill. Or bullets, which might come in handy. But I thought they Or a Vessel that has the requisite trigger finger. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:50:53 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tapio Erola Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Catholic Church > Also, it may be hard to recognise a dead homosexual as *being* > homosexual. There's not much fun to be had in Hell, so I'm told and > somehow I don't see the fun in Heaven being that carnal. I haven't been > to church in a while, but I'm *sure* that if there were loads of sex in > Heaven, they would have mentioned it - it would be a big selling point. Well. I think (in my rather twisted imagination) that there would be no sex in heaven. It is one of the perks in assignment to earth. - -- Tapio Erola txr@paju.oulu.fi (No mail to txr@sliver.oulu.fi please) "If you're up against someone more intelligent than you are, do something totally insane and let him think himself to death." -- Pyanfar Chanur ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:39:29 -0500 From: Jaeden Subject: Re: IN> Adventure report: Slugs of Vapula [Long] Christopher Paul wrote: They close up the morgue and head for > Denny's, a perfectly reasonable thing for Angels to do at 3am. This is so weird, my 2 friends and I do this all the time, with the black Trench's and everything =) Guess we're Angels then. ;) Deus Ex Machina, Jaeden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:39:18 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Dominic >Gender isn't relevant in Heaven. When Dom is in celestial form, s/he is a six-eyes (Bal)Seraph. So the picture on p45, nice as it is, really isn't relevant to celestial forms. I don't imagine Dom wears a hooded cloak when he's in a male vessel, either. < [IN p114] countless eyes peering form under his robe. Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:39:24 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Relic Weapons > Which writeup? Surely not the one on p.71 since I'm looking right at it and it sure enough says _Power_. (second column, 5th line, 1st word)< page 71 column 1 second sentance under holy or unholy bullets. You are right though under Holy or Unholy pistol it says Power rather than damage. Ho Hum thats obviously where I got confudsed. From: Nana Yaw Ofori > Me, I want a Holy M-16. I'd rather have A Holy Dragnov SVD or H&K G11. The first for the range and accuracy, the second for range, accuracy, fire rate, magazine capacity and the cute little laser targeting spot. On the other hand A Relic that gives the wielder the Smite attunement or the Celestial Song of Light. "Honest this is just an experimental Laser Rifle." Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:39:27 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> The Seven Skulls of Satan From: Earl Wajenberg >Since that bit of Revelation is the whole basis for the conflict >between Michael and Lucifer, I'd assume that it describes the >war at the Fall, way back at the beginning of time, and that the >seven-headed dragon was a vessel assumed by Lucifer for the occasion. The Dragon is Called Satan i.e Adfverary, It turns up in chapters 11+ of revelations after the last trump, the breaking of the seals and the fall of the Star Wormwood which poisons a third of the worlds oceans. My analysis is this is Lucifers combat form for the rematch against Micheal. Revelations describes the Dragon as surviving the battle though wounded and being worshipped by the people of the earth until the seven angels drop the seven plagues, bind the dragon into the pit for a thousand years and build an new Jerusalem. The Book of Revelations should have been part of the Apocrapha.but the chronology in it is at the end of the world the dragon and Micheal fight. Lucifer had no need for a combat form before the creation of man, so why did he have it ready for the fall. The Fall as told by Gabriel to Mohammed in the Chapter of El 'Hagr of the Koran. And we did create man from crackling clay of black mud wrought in form. And the ginns had we created before of smokeless fire. And when thy Lord said to the angels, 'Verily, I am creating a mortal from crackling clay of black mud wrought into shape; And when I have fashioned it, and breathed into it of my spirit, then fall ye down before it adoring.' And the angels adored all of them together, save Iblis, who refused to be among those who adored. He said, 'O Iblis! what ails thee that thou art not among those who adore?' Said he, 'I would not adore a mortal whom Thou hast created from crackling clay of black mud wrought into form.' He said, 'Then get thee forth therefrom, and, verily, thou art to be pelted! And, verily, the curse is upon thee until the day of judgment.' Said he, 'O my Lord! respite me until the day when they shall be raised.' He said, 'Then, verily, thou art of the respited until the day of the noted time.' He said, 'O my Lord! for that Thou hast seduced me I will surely make it seem seemly for them on earth, and I will surely seduce them all together; save such of Thy servants amongst them as are sincere.' Said He, 'This is a right way against me. Verily, my servants thou hast no authority over, save over those who follow thee of such as are seduced: and, verily, hell is promised to them all together. It has seven doors; at every door is there a separate party of them.' Verily, those who fear God shall dwell amidst gardens and springs: 'Enter ye therein with peace in safety!' And we will strip off whatever ill-feeling is in their breasts; as brethren on couches face to face. Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com "A great king of terror will descend from the skies, The year 1999, seventh month, To resuscitate the great king of Angolmois, Arond this time Mars will reign for the good cause." Nostradamus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:09:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Seven Skulls of Satan Adam Canning wrote: "The Book of Revelations should have been part of the Apocrapha.but the chronology in it is at the end of the world the dragon and Micheal fight." The chronology of the Book of Revelation is actually much disputed. The War in Heaven has been variously dated as: - at the beginning of time - at the creation of humans - at the birth of Christ - at the resurrection of Christ - at the end of time I repeat: the War in Heaven is, for IN, clearly part of celestial history. The main (if not only) literary source for that War is this image in Revelation, so, for IN purposes, I think one can use details from Revelation (such as the seven-headed dragon shape) for fleshing out IN war stories. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:59:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Dominic On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Adam Canning wrote: > >Gender isn't relevant in Heaven. When Dom is in celestial form, s/he is a > six-eyes (Bal)Seraph. So the picture on p45, nice as it is, really isn't > relevant to celestial forms. > > I don't imagine Dom wears a hooded cloak when he's in a male vessel, > either. > > [IN p114] countless eyes peering form under his robe. Exactly....Dom's celestial form. Your point is...? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:07:10 -0500 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: IN> Re: GenCon > We'll try not to. >;) When are you getting to Milkyway? Would >anyone be interested in a general get together? > I know I would, preferably Saturday too, since thats the only day I'll be there. Ryan Beall aka: Grim88 Look for me in #innmonine on Efnet rbeall@fdl.fdldotnet.com grim88@hotmail.com grim88@as-if.com http://members.tripod.com/~Grim88/index.html "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall through an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 08:57:01 From: MARITZ/FENTON/POSTMASTER (by way of Jeff Miller ) Subject: IN> Mail failure At 02:31 PM 8/4/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Her problems come when she runs into a Malakim of Flowers or Destiny, >>Either of whom is more likely to resonate a need to redeem a demon and >>either of whom are going to be quite happy to hopld her down while >>explaining why herbal teas make you a lot less cranky or why it is your >>destiny to fight against the forces of darkness. > >Well, Malakim can't suffer evil to live, but I suppose that >they could rationalize it as "If we can redeem her, she won't >be evil, so we're just keeping her alive while it's expedient >to try...." Walks kinda close to dissonance, but... > I dunno on that one. I'd think that if they let a demon live while it is likely that that demon can be redeemed and they are actively trying to redeem that demon (no weasel factor here) then it wouldn't be dissonant. By redeeming a demon, they are actually getting the value of two kills. If good is 1 and evil is -1, most Malakim get 1 kill by killing the demon (making it 0). By redeeming a demon you would get the value of 2 kills (moving a -1 to a 1). I would figure that Destiny's Malakim would do it if they saw that the demon was likely to redeem itself while a Malakim of flowers might kill a demon only if it has demonstrated that it can't or won't be redeemed. >K.K. probably gets really frustrated by Malakim of Flowers... > K.K. looks into the eyes of a Malakim of Flowers and reads: "I *need* you give up your evil ways and learn how wonderful it is to be good" and then leaves to worship the porcelain alter. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 18:25:50 -0100 From: Henry Leirvoll Subject: IN> Soldiers, and so on (again) I accept Elisabeth's answer which more or less indicated that I should not be too dependent on others .. take initiative .. and she's right! :) .. BUT .. I still feel this area of SOLDIERS/SERVANTS is very .. foggy .. During game - A demon (for instance) is supposed to be able to make new servants. - How does this happen, and what must be done .. There must be a difference for familairs, imps, humans, vampires, and so on .. after all, they are different values. Also .. - Rewards from your superior .. I know this rule was added in for balance, but I, as the GM, has removed pointcost on rewards. I consider myself a fair GM, and trust the players to accept my judgements. - Through this - when a player does something to further his superior's Word well enough - and he is rewarded .. say .. a relic, or a servant, or whatever .. I won't charge the player character points. Because I think this is silly. If the player collects character points, he may have a plan for these points. If I spurt rewards on them, which he has to pay off during the game - then they aren't going to BE "rewards". He MIGHT see it as a damned way of losing his already saved points. I had the same dilemma when playing GURPS campaigns (not the right channel, but this is just a note, so...). When the players came across a suitcase full of money - say .. $2 million .. having them pay it off by buying the WEALTH advantage, would just result in my players never Wanting this kind of success - because they knew it would interfer with their plans. In short .. I do not like to deprive the characters of FREEDOM OF CHOICE. - If I, as the GM, choose to REWARD them .. it shall be a REWARD .. not a bargain. - -- 0000,0000,ffffH. Leirvoll / kulde@intercom.no ICQ - UIN : 1255494 ffff,0000,0000- ^Heksheim / Black Metal^ - http://www.intercom.no/~kulde ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:51:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Dominic On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Adam Canning wrote: > > >Gender isn't relevant in Heaven. When Dom is in celestial form, s/he is a > six-eyes (Bal)Seraph. So the picture on p45, nice as it is, really isn't > relevant to celestial forms. > > I don't imagine Dom wears a hooded cloak when he's in a male vessel, > either. > < > > [IN p114] countless eyes peering form under his robe. > [IN p94] "In his celestial form, a Seraph resembles a winged, many-eyed serpent." Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:17:22 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Adventure report: Slugs of Vapula [Long] >I recently ran "Slugs of Vapula," an adventure seed that was posted here. >Thanks to Maya for the seed. Here's what happened: > Thank you very much for telling me what happened, and I'm glad that you (and your players) enjoyed it. If anyone else does play any of my other seeds, I'd be curious to know the results. ;) Thanks again, Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:56:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: IN> Contributions and Point Awards To make a very long story short, my players are all a pack of Amber gamers. And contributions, somehow, somewhere, made their way across from game A to game B. You just get into the habit, I guess. So, must to my happiness, I have players that write diaries and post web pages for the game. Myself, I write up rather lengthy game synopsis, because I have a large pack of lurkers who actually follow the game with some sort of detached interest. (It's amazing how well I just don't know the rules. Heh.) So.... here we come to the rewards part of the game. We've only had two sessions, the third being on monday, so no one is getting anything for a while. But I really need to present to my players some sort of framework for contributions and the like. My question is: How many points are typically given out after some good natural stopping point, and how much should I hand out for going above and beyond? I'm looking at a collection of the following: Diary entries Short Fiction Personal/Character Web Pages Art or Art Collections Etc. Anywho, thoughts would be appreciated. I was going to do it today, but I can't really decide where to start. The GM, btw, gets nearly a zillion bonus points for doing the log and the master web page, and gets to be the Demon of Internet Buzzwords. :) Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Computer Systems Consultant III Medical Center Information Technology Desktop Applications Team ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:19:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Dupe post. Sorry about the duplicate post. Anyone else getting wierd `undeliverable' messages back from their IN mailing list messages? Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 18:46:17 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Character creation quick reference sheets Hi, I remember a while ago people were talking about various quick reference charts for character creation, Archangels, and so forth. I haven't noticed any of these linked to from the official Steve Jackson Games pages, but ISTR this was for copyright reasons. Would any kind souls be willing to mail me anything? Thanks in advance. Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Heavy, adj.: Seduced by the chocolate side of the force. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:04:02 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: Non-omnipotent God (Was: Re: IN> Dark In Nomine) At 07:35 PM 7/26/97 +0100, you wrote: > >Eli left a while ago to wander the earth in an attempt to create >something so worthwhile that God Himself would take notice. Whether this >was to show that angels are as worthwhile as humans, or to draw His >attention to the War that has got out of hand, is up to you. > Or, maybe he's out to cause humans (not himself) to create something spectacular so that He would look on humans as more than lab mice/chess pieces. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:15:04 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN>Paradox Angels At 11:22 PM 7/26/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Schrodinger? >> > >> >> Just don't expect him to come in the Vessel of a cat. :) > >Why not? He is the angel of Paradox, remember... > And he'd be kinda hard to oppose then he can be there and not be there at the same time. Valefor will never know if any of his stolen treasures have disappeared until he goes in and looks at them. It could cause a pretty strong sense of paranoia. This sort of thing could be why the Princes don't show up on Earth very often. They have to keep an eye on their belongings to make sure that they stay where they are supposed to be. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 19:23:28 -0400 From: Charles Badger Subject: Re: IN> Dupe post. At 14:19 08/06/97 -0500, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >Sorry about the duplicate post. Anyone else getting wierd `undeliverable' >messages back from their IN mailing list messages? Yep I did. Someone's address is bad or has had service discontinued. - ----- Charles T. Badger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:49:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: IN>Um..ok need some Angels..... Due to someplayers dropping out I need some Angelic Celestials for my PBEMs. I know this is getting tiresome. I really apologize. I have room for three. What sick person put an "S" in lisp? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:08:44 -0400 From: "Joshua Knorr" Subject: IN> The First Family The First Family No one knows much about the first humans created by God: Adam and Eve, or their children, Cain and Abel. While the stories of the Garden of Eden and Cain's crime are more or less common knowledge, what happened afterwards has been shrouded by history. Repeated searches of Yves' library have turned up nothing, and if Yves himself knows, he isn't talking Eve === Eve proved unable to handle the dual shocks of being expelled from Eden and the murder of her firstborn by his sibling. After Cain was sentenced to wander the earth for all eternity, Eve's husband Adam fell into a profound depression, and withdrew from his surroundings. As her family crumbled, so did her sanity. Eventually, Eve simply forgot (some say abandoned) her identity and her past, and simply started walking. Eve no longer knows who she is and cannot remember beyond about 2 weeks into the past. With each town she enters, her story changes. She remembers that she had a husband and two sons, but cannot recall their names. She remembers that her oldest son died, but cannot remember the nature of the 'accident'. Wherever Eve goes, strange things seem to happen. A person wins the lottery one day, then watches as his house goes up in flames the next. One-in-a-million chances occur with frightening regularity. Subconsciously, eve retains some fragments of her previous life. She is both drawn to and terrified of gardens - she is deathly afraid of apples. And then, just as mysteriously as she appeared, Eve departs, leaving everyone around her confused, but with the lingering sense that they had met someone profoundly special. Adam ==== Whereas Eve found shelter for the trauma of events in her own madness, Adam forced himself to confront, and eventually come to terms with, the tragic series of events that befell his family. He suffered a deep depression after Abel's murder and Cain's punishment, and the departure of his wife transformed sadness into anger. Adam railed against the universe: how could God, the same being who gave Adam the blissful peace of Eden, who granted to Adam a wife and family even after the Garden was taken away, how could such a God allow this awful thing to happen? Someone, possibly Yves, possibly God Himself, came to Adam and gave him the explanation he asked for: angels, demon, the Symphony - everything. This knowledge gave Adam a certain degree of peace with the situation, if not contentment. He, like his wife, spent much time wandering the face of the Earth. But Adam was not driven by insanity, but by a desire to learn, to attain ever higher levels of enlightenment. Adam has not only grown in knowledge and wisdom, but in power as well. Adam is now a mage, a human with the ability to bend reality to his will. Eventually his control over the Symphony became strong enough for him to craft entirely separate realms, albeit small ones. Interludes is his greatest achievement, and was significant enough a creation to attract the attention of Eli himself, over 200 years ago (angels of Creation are still the most frequent visitors to Interludes). Now, Adam is unsure of what happened to his very first patron, although he has his suspicions. While Adam is friendly enough towards celestials of either stripe, on the whole he disapproves in their meddling of human affairs, for good or ill. He feels that humanity should be allowed to exercise its free will however it chooses, regardless of whether those choices are good or bad. If he ever gets ahold of the balseraph who appeared as a snake in Eden, that is one demon who will not get off easy. Adam is aware of Eve's plight, and hopes to one day reconcile with his mad wife. One of the primary reasons why he founded Interludes was to provide a place to (hopefully) gather celestial gossip about goings on around the globe, in the hopes of locating Eve. Celestials in Adam's debt may find themselves sent on truly bizarre needle-in-a-haystack missions, attempting to find some clue to Eve's current whereabouts. Adam knows that Cain is out there, somewhere, and knows that Cain is up to no good (being the only human mage in existence who is more powerful than Cain, he can detect Cain's activity better than almost anyone, celestials included). Adam is not sure just what Cain is planning, but given his apparent state of mind (they have met on a few occasions) and abilities, it can only mean trouble. Cain ==== And then there was Cain. Cursed by God for murdering his brother, Abel, Cain has been damned to eternal life, sentenced never to know the death that he sent Abel to. The millennia that have followed have not been kind to Cain. Like his father, Cain wields powers beyond even those of the celestials. Like his mother, Cain is totally and utterly insane. The torment of eternal life has pushed Cain over the edge, and now all that drives him is his rage and hatred: against God, against his family, against the entire Symphony which (from his point of view) serves as a perpetual prison. After many years of wandering, Cain was found by a young, ambitious demon, who offered to teach Cain the darker secrets of the universe: Lillith. Much of what Adam learned from his conversation of the divine, Cain learned (albeit in a lesser, more twisted form) from Lillith. She started him on the path to darkness, gave him the power to control and focus his insanity. However, Cain was unwilling to make the same pledge that Lillith had made: he would not become a vassal of Lucifer, not even for the title of Demon Prince. Cain chose a more solitary, a more dangerous path. Whereas Adam's studies concerned the nature of the universe at large, Cain focused on the bonds of life and death within human beings. He came to understand the nature of the curse God had placed upon him, and discovered that it could also confer power as well. Cain learned to drain the Forces, the very Essence, from other living beings: what he is became known as vampire, although he is far more powerful than the vampires created during a partially successful Black Mass. Cain uses the life energy of other mortals to fuel his dark magic - he unravels the very core of the Symphony in order to produce his own bizarre, twisted melodies. He has also learned how to transform other humans into beings similar to himself, whom he calls the Kindred (to separate them from the common, everyday vampires). He teaches the Kindred small fragments of what he knows, in exchange for their eternal service to further his dark designs. And just what does Cain want? He wants nothing less to smash apart the entire universe - to silence the Symphony once and for all. At the very least, he hopes to destroy the corporeal plane, allowing the chaotic madness of the Marches to reign unchecked. At best, he wants to undo it all, and reforge the universe with himself as Chief Executor. Can he pull it off? Maybe - no one knows the ultimate limits of the power of a mage. He knows that his father is watching: Adam, being older and more skilled, could best him in a straight-out one-on-one confrontation, but Cain knows better than to force such a match. He is working from the darkness, slowing gaining power and knowledge. To this end, Cain employs agents from across reality. Aside from his mortal allies, the Kindred, he has befriended (or, at least, mollified) many of the more malevolent spirits on the Ethereal plane, promising them a chance to run unchecked across the Symphony once more in exchange for information or assistance. He even occasionally takes in Outcasts and Renegades, masquerading as a Superior who wants to bring the celestial "back into the fold" - for just a small price (usually a mission to either Heaven or Hell, places that Cain cannot go). In the end, though, Cain always destroys his helper: he hates all celestials, seeing them as extensions of the God that condemned him so long ago. Joshua Knorr A conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who has just been booked. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #283 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.