From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Aug 8 06:01:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10541 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:01:46 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA08030 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 04:46:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 04:46:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199708080946.EAA08030@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #284 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, August 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 284 In this digest: IN> Kyrio of Azrael Re: IN> The First Family Re: IN> Why I DID buy Night Music IN> Interludes Re: IN> The First Family IN> Lilim Geases IN> Asashiel, Malakim of Knowledge IN> Relic Weapons IN> Soldiers, and so on (again) IN> One Ring to Rule them All IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> The First Family Re: IN> Relic Weapons IN> Relic weapons Re: IN> The First Family Re: IN> Soldiers, and so on (again) Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> Dupe post. IN> Requesting guidance on human use of Essence IN> Geas and Dark Desire IN> In Nomine Sterotypes IN> Slightly off Topic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:39:23 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: IN> Kyrio of Azrael Something I thought of last night - it requires promoting Azzie to archangel of vengeance, but it works fine with that idea. Kyrios of Vengeance, those who serve Azrael, have an attunement similar to that of Kyrios of the Sword, with one exception. The vessel does not seemingly heal from their wounds; rather, it comes back from the dead, months or years later. Kyrios of Vengeance are big on Corporeal Songs of Healing, Motion and other similar Songs... Of course, as with most starting Kyrios, a Kyrio of Vengeance won't have enough Forces to animate more than one human Vessel at at time, though there are enough left over for an animal. I'll stop there before the allusion becomes too obvious. Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:43:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> The First Family Wonderful work! One thing, though: Cain was the eldest son, not Abel. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:07:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Why I DID buy Night Music > > ... > > What about precisely because the War is the most important thing > in the universe? It's been going on for a very, very long time, even > after adjusting for their lifespans...it would make sense that, as happens > in a lot of wars that go on for more than a couple years, both sides have > started to forget what they're fighting FOR. It could happen, but these creatures would be far too morally depraved to be recognisable as Angels. Maybe that's O.K. for some people's games, but its not how I want to run things. > Hence, you're starting to get Angels who are in it just to beat up > all the Demons, who don't much care about humans. You're getting OTHER > Angels who see this and find it horrible. But what about Angels who neither want to beat up on demons *nor* want to protect humans? That seems to be what is required for a truce. > The first of these might ally with demons for strategic advantage. > (Having a few demons you talk to gives you a source for information and a > way to learn about some of their abilities without having to experience > them the hard way..) A pragmatic Angel could do that, but they would then take the knowledge and use it to fight with. > The others may strive for truces precisely BECAUSE > they care about humans, and have seen the way indiscriminite warring can > take them out on the sidelines... > Human death is pretty insignificant compared to Damnation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:12:57 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Interludes Interesting concept, though it's kind of been done to death (Sanctuary in Champions, Elysium in WoD, Blades in Legacy, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon, GURPS IOU, Tales of the Floating Vagabond, etc. etc.) It seems to defy some of the basic premises of In Nomine, though. For a "neutral ground" where any celestial can meet, I kind of prefer a concept like Austin, or a Tether with a really powerful Seneschal who has an interest in allowing both angels and demons to come and mingle. For that matter, theoretically someone could set up a spot in Hell, but even if safety was guaranteed (hah!), very few angels would ever go there. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:49:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> The First Family I thought this was fantastic! One nitpick, though. Adam and Eve had *three* sons: Cain, Abel, and *Seth*. The Bible does say that Seth died, though, so for game purposes, he can be pretty much ignored. Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:12:58 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim Geases >>>IMO, the 'backlash' experienced when a Geas is resisted is part of the Geas, not the Lilim.<<< Then the Lilim would have no inherent dissonance conditions, which makes no sense since the whole point of being a celestial is that one has a particular theme in the Symphony, and violating it causes dissonance. >>>I tend to view the Lilim resonance as being able to inflict a Geas on others by fulfilling their Needs.<<< Yes, that's their resonance. The dissonance part comes when they are unable to enforce the other end of the bargain, thus failing to impose their will on the Symphony. For anyone else, it would be irritating, but not dissonant to their fundamental nature, to fail to enforce a Geas. >>>Therefore if a non-Lilim invokes a Geas which is subsequently resisted, the Geas bounces back to injure them.<<< What about humans? - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 06:12:16 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Asashiel, Malakim of Knowledge In Pyramid 26 one of the NPC is troubling me. Asashiel Malakite of Knowledge. Ok, Rapheal was Archangel of Knowledge before going head to head with Legion. So Sasha having since aquired an attunment and distinctions from Yves [Divine Destiny,Vassal of Destiny and Friend of the Sages] since is fine but what does the Malakim of Knowledge Attunment do? Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com Who is very angry his local games shop failed to get Pyramid 24, so he has problems with understanding the scenario. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 06:12:14 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Relic Weapons Kingsley Lintz > Well, there are a couple minor advantages, like the ability to track it down if it gets lost (negligible at Level 1, admittedly) and, of course, the eensy option of having a pistol in Celestial combat...< Isn't the tracking things down ability the special ability of Corporeal Artifacts not Celestial ones? On the Celestial Combat, it would be nice but the only weapon that states it is usable in celestial combat is the Flaming Sword. Holy bullets state they damage the celestially generated corporeal vessel. Admitedly if they don't hurt any thing else that is quite useful.. Adam Canning Dahak@compuserve.Com . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 06:12:07 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Soldiers, and so on (again) From: Henry Leirvoll >I consider myself a fair GM, and trust the players to accept my judgements. - Through this - when a player does something to further his superior's Word well enough - and he is rewarded .. say .. a relic, or a servant, or whatever .. I won't charge the play! er character points. < What I find myself doing in these situations is giving the players experience points and giving those people who as you put it help their superiors word the toys or trinkits on topon average the players who get given just character points get more than those who get tangible rewards but somewhat less than the character point value of those rewards and the character points the characters get. Thus they can still spend cp for what tey want but if they do well I have more control over what they receive. Servants recruited in play have the disasdvantage that you do not get the level bonus to get them to do what you want. Adam Canning Dahka@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 12:58:00 GMT From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> One Ring to Rule them All (NB. This is a rather mythic sort of relic I wrote up - I haven't added any plot hooks as of yet, but I thought it might be interesting; although it does imply that there was a period of a few years in the past during which The Game was almost completely unpoliced.) Name: The Ring of Solomon Appearance: A plain gold band with no markings. It is sized to fit a man's hand. Owner: Asmodeus (probably has the best claim although Solomon might dispute this - it is in neither of their possessions currently) Cost: Ha ha. Err... no. "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them." History: The ring is the most powerful of a number of relics created by King Solomon the Wise with the blessings of Uriel, Archangel of Purity, and Michael, Archangel of War. The king was gifted with divine wisdom at a young age, as is told in the bible, and with the aid of the ring he was able to extend that divine wisdom to the arts of rulership. By calling on advisors from amongst the many races of people around the world and from amongst the birds of the air and beasts of the field and by being able to walk amongst his people unseen or in disguise, the King was able to gain an understanding of how they lived and worked and died that has never been surpassed. However, not satisfied with all these sources of earthly knowledge, the king was able also to enchant the ring with powers of dominion over all Djinn. Certainly he did so with the aid of his own divine wisdom and the best of all possible intentions. It is rumoured that he sought help in this endeavour from infernal entities or perhaps the Prince of Lies himself, who laughed as He invested the required power in the artefact. After having learned a great deal of how these minor Djinn operated, and forcing them away from tormenting his people, the King planned a great thing. He summoned the most powerful of all Djinn -- with the aim of imprisoning that Prince for all eternity and thus spare the mortal world from his evil predations. As he walked in his gardens, the demon appeared to him in the guise of an old man with a mild face and spoke to him in riddles of the future and the past and of heaven and hell. Divining the meanings of these things effortlessly, the King was impressed by the demon's advice and decided that instead of imprisoning the great Djinn, he would press Asmodeus into service as a royal advisor and he commanded the demon to stay within the confines of his mortal realms. The Demon Prince bowed his head and accepted the dominion of the ring, because to break such powers would have been against the very rules of The Game as it was played. He chafed silently and vowed a revenge that would last eternity, and that he would have Solomon's soul as a plaything when the king passed from the mortal realm. On at least one occasion he was able to assume the King's place for several months due to a badly worded command, but Solomon was able to reassert his authority and prove that the imposter was in fact the demon, as could be seen by his cloven hooves (for in seeking to overthrow the master of the ring, the Prince of The Game had fallen foul of his own rules). Over time, the King fell prey to the curses of kings - hedonism and lassitude and hubris - and the demon who had become the most valued advisor in his realm saw the weakness within his soul and whispered in his ear that even Solomon, the King of Kings,would die and be forgotten and everything he had won would fall, and everything which he had learned would be forgotten. So, slowly and inexorably, the wisest man who ever lived was drawn into The Game. After having heard from the prophets that he had lost divine favour, the king was more willing to give ear to Asmodeus and eventually sold his soul for immortality, and the chance to live forever as a mummy. The two left Jerusalem together and once away from his palace and his supporters and laid open to the realisation of what remained to him, it was a simple task for the Prince to finally retrieve the ring which had been his master for too long, or so he had thought. When the pair were waylaid by 'bandits' who searched the old king for the artefact, it was nowhere to be found. With the last of what remained of his freewill, Solomon informed the demon that the ring had been swallowed by an eel that had been landed at Jaffa the previous day, before it was thrown back into the Mediterranean and now it was lost forever. Showing unusual interest in his revenge (for a Djinn) Asmodeus tortured the king in various creative ways for half a century before he tired of the sport and allowed the mummy to walk the earth again as his servant. He is sufficiently vicious on those occasions when he does still choose to crack the whip to show that he has still not forgotten the old slight, and speaks with Solomon personally on the same weekly basis as he speaks to his celestial servitors. In fact, the old bitterness seems largely kept up for show and on the weekly meetings the djinn and the mummy simply play chess. Perhaps if Solomon ever won a game the demon prince would release him, but this has never happened. Nor does it seem likely in the foreseeable future. In all that time, the ring had remained hidden from both mortal and celestial seekers, of whom there have been several. Reputed Powers: The ring is reputed to have had several powers, depending on which finger of the right hand it was worn upon. To activate a power, the user turned the ring once anti-clockwise, and once clockwise to deactivate it. Forefinger: Invisibility Middle Finger: Ability to comprehend and speak with animals. Ring Finger: Ability to speak any mortal language. Little finger: Ability to change appearance (an illusion) Despite these incredible powers, this was not the main value of the ring. If worn on the forefinger of the left hand and twisted once anti-clockwise it gave the user the ability to summon any Djinn if he knew its name, and compel it to service (the djinn also becomes attuned to the wearer of the ring, for the duration (ie. until another djinn is summoned or the user removes the ring)). The sting in this aspect of the ring's power is that it may only be wielded by a mortal. Current Powers/ Location: The ring has remained hidden, largely because several demon princes have a strong interest in it not being located. It is usually assumed to be in one of the world's oceans, but could equally be in the Marches. It has proven impossible for any cherub to attune to it, which implies that either God or Satan is taking an interest. Asmodeus would give a great deal to recover the thing. Since its creation, the themes of the symphony have changed enough that its use would be very noisy and would also be likely to attract the attention of any Djinn, who can perceive its use at twice the distance of any other celestial. Despite having accepted his place as a slave to his superior, Solomon still holds out the forlorn hope that he might one day be able to retrieve his ring and make amends to God and to all of creation for the evil that he has done. Meanwhile, he feels that trying to help remorseful demons to avoid his master's eye is the best he can do (unfortunately Asmodeus is well aware of this and usually sends a Shedim to secretly watch him and pick off quietly the demons with whom he interacts - it is another part of the game which the pair play). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:41:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> In Nomine Diceless Emily Dresner writes: "To make a very long story short, my players are all a pack of Amber gamers." Anyone contemplated a diceless version of IN? ('Course, there \ goes the famous d666.) Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:07:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The First Family Interesting. Now: what can we do with Abel, who has the distinction of being the first of the dead? Might the Eldest Ghost be out there giving the Eldest Vampire trouble? Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:15:35 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Relic Weapons > Kingsley Lintz > > Well, there are a couple minor advantages, like the ability to > track it down if it gets lost (negligible at Level 1, admittedly) and, of > course, the eensy option of having a pistol in Celestial combat...< Adan Canning; > Isn't the tracking things down ability the special ability of Corporeal > Artifacts not Celestial ones? No, that goes for any of them..it's just the ONLY ability of Corporeal ones. (p41; being attuned to them is listed under "Using Artifacts", and THEN they go on to the individual types..) > On the Celestial Combat, it would be nice but the only weapon that states > it is usable in celestial combat is the Flaming Sword. Holy bullets state S'true, but p54 notes that any Celestial artifact goes with you when you take Celestial form. Being designed against Vessels, I'd say they don't get their damage bonus, but you've got both the gun and bullets, so I don't see any reason you can't use them as such. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:16:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Relic weapons From: Kingsley Lintz >> However, you're right - there seems to be no point to a HP/1 unless >> it's errata'd that CD*level is the weapon's power. (Even then, a >> .44 would > Well, there are a couple minor advantages, like the ability to > track it down if it gets lost (negligible at Level 1, admittedly) You can get the same effect for corpreal artifact cheaper. > and, > of course, the eensy option of having a pistol in Celestial combat... But is it worth the 6 points? I don't think so, personally. You could get a NC/6 instead. >> OTOH, HP/6 is *worth* 36 pints, especially with high skill. > 'Course, after 36 points, you don't have any points left to get a > high skill. Of course you do, after you take Discoloured/6 and Angry/6, that's 36 points right there! (I *said* it was a munchkin.) > Or bullets, which might come in handy. But I thought they > were only 3 points per Level? Sez 6/lvl in my hardback. Of course, you can do roughly the same thing with Smite for 10 CP and some Essence, which is easier to get than CP. Scary Gabrielite Combat monster: 4 CorpForces - 12 ST, Smite, Fighting/6, Talisman (fighting)/6. (8CP left for vessel etc.) Blowing all 9 essence on Smite, she gets (1d6+13)*9 damage (126-171). This assumes Smite is off a fighting roll, of course. You might argue it was Throwing, in which case the Onafim get really nasty... 0;^> I don't want to think about what Gabby herself can do. Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:59:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The First Family In addition to Cain, Able, and Seth, Adam is described as begetting multiple anonymous "sons and daughters." The conventional view is that their mother was Eve, and that one of these daughters was the wife of Cain (and another the wife of Seth). Of course, one can amuse oneself by playing variations on that. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:25:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Soldiers, and so on (again) > During game - A demon (for instance) is supposed to be able to make new > servants. - How does this happen, and what must be done .. There must be About like adding any other Resource, I suppose, which is to say, "by myriad and sundry means". Imps and Reliever types either have to be requested/assigned from their Superior, or they may be able to pop off to HQ and pick one up. Humans it seems you just connect with and, presto, they're subverted to your needs. (The guy in Bright Dream struck me as a little more than just being bullied/blackmailed - Nicole picked him, so when she told him to kill her old servant, there was one of those Will vs Servant-Level conflicts and he lost...) Undead you probably have to either make or get assigned somehow, unless you can track one down who isn't already working for someone... > Also .. - Rewards from your superior .. I know this rule was added in > for balance, but I, as the GM, has removed pointcost on rewards. Huzzah! I agree with that; at the least, they should be at a significant discount. (They effectively ARE `character point' rewards, but chosen by the GM rather than the player, so the player should still be given at least a few points to do what they want with..) Of course, if a Superior is rewarding a character with something because it's what the player wants, that's presumably a bit different... Still, I'd note that if you LOSE something, there's no suggestion that you automatically get the points to recycle, depending a bit on what it is...plus, the system is really set up with some assumption that people are going to play different types because they WANT to, not because they get the most points. (I just get the feeling In Nomine just wasn't written with munchkins in mind...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:19:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > Emily Dresner writes: > > "To make a very long story short, my players are all a pack of > Amber gamers." > > Anyone contemplated a diceless version of IN? ('Course, there \ > goes the famous d666.) > > Earl Wajenberg > Yep. And I pretty much intended to make a conversion. But between getting players and plot and all that, I haven't had the time to sit down and start building a diceless version. BUT... I have no lasting fondness for dice, so my PCs don't roll them very much. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:17:51 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Dupe post. At 07:23 PM 8/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 14:19 08/06/97 -0500, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >>Sorry about the duplicate post. Anyone else getting wierd `undeliverable' >>messages back from their IN mailing list messages? > >Yep I did. Someone's address is bad or has had service discontinued. Yep. It seems to have been temporary though. It looks like it's better now. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:25:14 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Requesting guidance on human use of Essence I was trying to work out something relating to human use of Essence, because it might come into an adventure seed I'm working on. In Night Music it says that 5-force-humans can't control their Essence expenditure, and tend to blow it all at once, and this stops them being Soldiers and learning Songs. Okay. What I am trying to work out is if a 5-force-human could put all his Essence into one effort, if he were rote-following some song, and just copying the tune/pattern and singing his heart out. Technically, they can't use Songs directedly. I'm just wondering if they could be coached and shoved into producing an undirected low-power Song this way. Opinions welcome. Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:57:50 -0100 From: Henry Leirvoll Subject: IN> Geas and Dark Desire A lilim uses her Servitor Attunement DARK DESIRE. - Now, this - for a given moment in time - affects a target with a deep desire. Should I, or should I not (as the GM) , allow GEAS to be used upon this desire? And if so - how should I run the mechanics? How deep Is the desire, and what level geas could be put upon it. A lilim enters a bathroom stall (yes, she's sleazy this one) - where a man is already on his feet doing what comes natural to a man in his position. She successfully employs her DARK DESIRE upon him, which wreathes the smell of SEX. This man becomes appauled (of course), and she tells him that she will give him the wildest sex he could ever imagine .. Here .. Now .. if he would only "owe her one". You owe me one Kenobi, sort of thing. ;) How about this? - -- 0000,0000,ffffH. Leirvoll / kulde@intercom.no ICQ - UIN : 1255494 ffff,0000,0000- ^Heksheim / Black Metal^ - http://www.intercom.no/~kulde ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:03:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: IN> In Nomine Sterotypes I just thought of some of these sterotypes in In Nomine. Anyone have any more? I was trying to come up with as many as possible to try and avoid for awhile in my game (futile I know but still I try...) 1. All Malakim are mindless combat monsters 2. All Calabim are mindless combat monsters 3. All Lilm are fun loving borderline nymphomaniacs 4. All atttractive Demons are lust Servitors 5. Lilm aren't truly evil, they're just drawn that way. 6. Servitors of Dominic have no sense of humour or idea of extenuating circumstancs. 7. All Serphs are snooty straight men 8. Malakim have no "lives" and will never develop one. That's what I came up with.... What sick person put an "S" in lisp? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:42:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: IN> Slightly off Topic O.K., this is slightly off topic and may even be old news, but it is probably of interest to most of you. I just read (on the net, so take it with a grain of salt), that Wizards of the Coast will be releasing an AD&D Dominia. If this can get the attention of all those card players out there, it just may be the biggest shot in the arm the role-playing hobby has ever had. Just imagine if we can get even a fraction of magic players to give R.P.G.s a try. We may be on the verge of something big... BTW, the rumour is that Jonathan Tweet will be in charge of the whole thing. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #284 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.