From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 11 16:15:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15367 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:15:15 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08801 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:32:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:32:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199708111832.NAA08801@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #287 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 11 1997 Volume 01 : Number 287 In this digest: IN> Gabriel & Dominic & Eli & Asmodeus & Ted & Alice IN> The Austin question Re: IN> The Austin question Re: IN> Night Music Error IN> Re: Night Music Re: IN> The Austin question Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Gabriel & Dominic & Eli & Asmodeus & Ted & Alice IN> remove IN> Re:remove Re: IN> PERCEIVING CELESTIALS Re: IN> Drew Angel of Sexuality IN> Superior Ideas Re: IN> PERCEIVING CELESTIALS Re: IN> The Austin question Re: IN> Drew Angel of Sexuality Re: IN> Drew Angel of Sexuality IN> Fwd: Mail failure IN> * FREE SOFTWARE * Re: IN> IN, Contact and Stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Aug 97 09:22:19 -0400 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> Gabriel & Dominic & Eli & Asmodeus & Ted & Alice Pardon me for butting in, but I saw here an opportunity to interrupt and make some potentially constructive suggestions. Usually, though, they explode into a flurry of enraged, half-shouted obscenities and poorly formed emotional arguments. The words "Soldier of Malphas" keep ringing in my head; I can't imagine why. Anyway... Previously, from the desktop of in_nomine-digest... >>>>>There's nothing to say that Gabriel was nuts before the trial. >>Her description, rather, suggests that the trial itself was what >>pushed her.<<< >>It may suggest that, but there are other factors involved. >Probably, but being on trial for serving Heaven and her Word >wouldn't help. Let's jump back a step or two and consider Gabriel's nature. As an Ofanite, she may be a little flighty and unstable to begin with. Obsession with freedom and chaotic motion may be interpreted by some as symptomatic of insanity. As an Ofanite given the Word of Fire (in the Celestial sense, not just Corporeal, though the fact that she's made her home in a volcano says something), whatever interest she has in that freedom and chaotic motion will be intensified to the point of monomania. Upshot: by this point, if she's NOT insane, it's hard for even an Archangel to tell. She might as *well* be insane, because it's all part of her Word, and she's not going back on it. All this time, she has been celebrated for her nature and resonance. It may go to her head, or she may just see it as part of her job. Now figure: Yves, as part of one of her philosophical experiments, gives her instructions that fly in the face of certain of the existing philosophical memes in Heaven at the time. As a result, she's put on trial, investigated and persecuted by Dominic, and censured for carrying out orders and obeying that nature and resonance for which she was renowned. Upshot: If she was crazy before, this ordeal could have made her just the slightest bit crazier. In any case, it would definitely have made her more bitter. And regardless where she's freshly crazy, even crazier, or just really unhappy with her treatment, she pulled up her tentstakes, moved into the volcano on the border between Heaven and Hell, and doesn't deliver messages anymore. >I don't think of Dominic as evil, or petty. I think of him >as an Archangel who, over the millenia of his own success, >got drunk on his own hubris. I don't see him as evil or petty either. But hubris sounds an awful lot like a Discord to me. Instead, I prefer to see him as single-minded and overzealous: it's his duty to find and persecute any transgressions, and he does so to the fullest extent that he can. The fact that he may ruin lives and careers in the process is irrelevant. Using the Paranomine paradigm, think of Dominic as the head of Internal Security. Or at least as the head of Internal Affairs in any big city police department. During the course of investigating any crime, legitimate or not, he has to investigate everything which he thinks is suspicious. Besides, Dominic is a Seraph. Everyone knows they're all starchy-shorts. :) Consider Dominic's target of investigation: Eli. In the campaign background I've put together, I've made Eli's absence from Heaven a necessary and important part of maintaining his Word. However, the persecution continues. Regardless of whether Eli's absence is angelic, diabolic, or something entirely different in nature, his actions are still suspicious, and therefore he is suspect. > He then started making ill-advised >accusations against fellow Archangels, as well as associating with >one of the most powerful Diabolicals in Hell. I BEG your pardon?? When was this? I was under the impression that Dominic and Asmodeus were both in charge of justice (or lack thereof in Azzie's case) in their own respective realms, and never really bothered to consider the existance of one another, much less meet on anything less than the coldest of terms. Obviously I've missed a supplement somewhere. Geez, first day or two I sign onto a mailing list, then this fish drops into my lap. (That's a metaphor. No, really.) > I don't think these >are unrelated, nor do I think Dominic's really evil in his own >right. I simply believe that Asmodeus is attempting to manipulate >Dominic. If they see each other frequently, then it would certainly be in Asmodeus' best interest to try to manipulate Dominic, or at least to find out which angels he has under investigation so he can make plans to handle defections. Dominic would probably want to do a certain amount of that, but Seraphs and lying, well, let's just say it gets ugly. By the same token, though, whatever deceptions Asmodeus pulled on Dominic, Dominic would have the foresight to see through. Upshot: It's awfully hard to pull the wool over Dominic's eyes, and Asmodeus would probably find better things to do than try it. Like preventing people on his own side from defecting to Heaven. But given that Dominic and Asmodeus are on non-hostile terms (I'd still like to know why!), there's obviously more there than in the basic set. This all becomes conjecture, ripe for the shooting down. >Kestrel - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ No, not THAT David. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:53:31 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> The Austin question From: "Joel Mathis" >A holy city guide book would be absolutely fantastic if it included Austin style guides to several cities< Prefereably ones that show us whats going on in the war and on the etherial spirit side, rather than Oh look White wolf have done a city where the Vampires and werewolves get on shock horror. Austin looked to have no long term play value, any group of angels my players run will demolish the treaty as being bad for heaven because of how Druiel's behaving not to mention the suffer not evil to live oath of the Malakim [My players are tired of the send the paladin out to guard the coridor while the party comits unspeakable acts style of typecasting.] So my prefered cities and why: The Vatican [Which side the popes on sort of matters.] Mexico City [What Uriel left of the Aztec Gods] Paris, [Notre Dame!] Mecca [How much of what Gabriel told Mohamed is true] The Forbidden City [Is the Heavenly Beaurocracy, Heaven?] Moscow [Some where for the gum bunnies to play.] Washington [Because it's a sink of sin and depravity] Tokyo [They'd never notice the war what with Gojira] Salt Lake City [Who did start the Mormons?] LA [Because Kim's PBEM is set there] London [Amercians rarely underrstand the place.] Bagdad [Sadam, The Whore of Babylon and Saladins sword] Terahn [Definitly a front line in the war.] I however have a tidy mind and a limited carrying capacity so Iwould like to see these seperate from the rules and general background information [i.e new songs, detaile and new superiors, new choirs and bands, what Janus is upto,] But then I would like to see the supperiors written up in one or two volumes at most [One divine and one diabolic for example.] A players guide with a quick reference sheet on character generation would be nice as would the stuff on sorcererors. Adam Canning. Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:16:50 -0500 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: Re: IN> The Austin question >And lets not forget the complete guide to Nybbas-ville aka LA. Well, I've heard from a very reliable source that LA will be detailed in Heaven and Hell. Ryan Beall aka: Grim88 Look for me in #innmonine on Efnet rbeall@fdl.fdldotnet.com grim88@hotmail.com grim88@as-if.com http://members.tripod.com/~Grim88/index.html "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall through an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:19:06 -0500 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: Re: IN> Night Music Error >On page 105 under the description for "Trent: Cherub Servitor of the >Sword," he has the following skill listed: Large Weapon/5 (shotgun). >Obviously, this is a mistake given the fact that a shotgun would be covered >by the Ranged Weapon skill. My question is, how is this supposed to read? >Ranged Weapon/5 (shotgun) or Large Weapon/5 (?) with a contact weapon >listed in the parenthesis. Um, maybe he swings it like a bat? :) Ryan Beall aka: Grim88 Look for me in #innmonine on Efnet rbeall@fdl.fdldotnet.com grim88@hotmail.com grim88@as-if.com http://members.tripod.com/~Grim88/index.html "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall through an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:11:34 -0500 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: IN> Re: Night Music >While only a few people have fallen over themselves to blast SJG for putting >the Austin stuff, I haven't heard all that many people praising it, either. >I haven't (I sure could be wrong) heard anyone speak up about how they are >rushing to set (or re-set) their campaign in Austin. For the record, I Well, I can't discuss my campaign too much since all my players are on the list, but I find Austin VERY interesting and my players may stop by some time for an undeterminable amount of time in the future. Ryan Beall aka: Grim88 Look for me in #innmonine on Efnet rbeall@fdl.fdldotnet.com grim88@hotmail.com grim88@as-if.com http://members.tripod.com/~Grim88/index.html "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall through an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:15:56 -0400 From: "Joshua Knorr" Subject: Re: IN> The Austin question >Vampires and werewolves get on shock horror. Austin looked to have no long >term play value, any group of angels my players run will demolish the It seems to me that Austin has lots of long term play value. You've got Mitrah's plans for Frex's tether, the possibility of Druiel possibly (hell, likely) going off the deep end, Lauren's possible Redemption (with some prodding by Zara), the possibility of the Old Man finding out about the truce, Nicole's ongoing investigation into Marcus and the Sanguine Painting.... Sure, you can simply have a bunch of angels march into town and tear the truce to shreds. At which point they have earned the wrath of a good half-dozen reaonsably-powered celestials, not to mention at least one Archangel (Novalis) and possibly one newly minted Demon Price. There's a lot going on here - and it can take a while to sort through it. Joshua Knorr A conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who has just been booked. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Hobbes Subject: Re: IN> Dominic According to dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org: > >I don't think of Dominic as evil, or petty. I think of him > >as an Archangel who, over the millenia of his own success, > >got drunk on his own hubris. > > I don't see him as evil or petty either. But hubris sounds an awful lot > like a Discord to me. Instead, I prefer to see him as single-minded and > overzealous: it's his duty to find and persecute any transgressions, and > he does so to the fullest extent that he can. The fact that he may ruin > lives and careers in the process is irrelevant. > > Using the Paranomine paradigm, think of Dominic as the head of Internal > Security. Or at least as the head of Internal Affairs in any big city > police department. During the course of investigating any crime, > legitimate or not, he has to investigate everything which he thinks is > suspicious. > Then he continued with: > By the same token, though, whatever deceptions Asmodeus pulled on > Dominic, Dominic would have the foresight to see through. Upshot: It's > awfully hard to pull the wool over Dominic's eyes, and Asmodeus would > probably find better things to do than try it. Like preventing people on > his own side from defecting to Heaven. I think you've hit on one of the key disagreements about Dominic though; singlemindedness AND insight (the latter being something of a question). If it IS hard to "pull the wool over his eyes", then Dominic is - much as you say - akin to a head of internal security. If this is not quite true, however, and Dominic is a bit more singleminded and zealous than plain evidence suggests, then he becomes more like a member of the Inquisition than an internal services head. For example, Dominic reads Eli's behavior as suspicious - granted. This definitely merits investigation, but does it give him the right to persecute servitors of Eli to delve into his workings? I guess it sorta depends on how you read into "persecute". I know both types of people - those who read him as zealot and those who play him as a hard-nosed cop. Personally, I read him as more of a cop than an Inquisitor, but I definitely acknowledge a healthy dose of bull-headed persecution..... Dan Ozdowski - -- Beware the single most feared person in life..... The Articulate Incompetent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 97 13:40:00 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Gabriel & Dominic & Eli & Asmodeus & Ted & Alice At 09:22 AM 8/10/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >Pardon me for butting in, but I saw here an opportunity to interrupt and >make some potentially constructive suggestions. Usually, though, they >explode into a flurry of enraged, half-shouted obscenities and poorly >formed emotional arguments. The words "Soldier of Malphas" keep ringing >in my head; I can't imagine why. > >Anyway... Only a Soldier? >Previously, from the desktop of in_nomine-digest... >>>>>>There's nothing to say that Gabriel was nuts before the trial. >>>Her description, rather, suggests that the trial itself was what >>>pushed her.<<< > >>>It may suggest that, but there are other factors involved. > >>Probably, but being on trial for serving Heaven and her Word >>wouldn't help. > >Let's jump back a step or two and consider Gabriel's nature. > >As an Ofanite, she may be a little flighty and unstable to begin with. >Obsession with freedom and chaotic motion may be interpreted by some as >symptomatic of insanity. >Upshot: If she was crazy before, this ordeal could have made her just the >slightest bit crazier. In any case, it would definitely have made her >more bitter. And regardless where she's freshly crazy, even crazier, or >just really unhappy with her treatment, she pulled up her tentstakes, >moved into the volcano on the border between Heaven and Hell, and doesn't >deliver messages anymore. Sure she does. Through friends ;> >> He then started making ill-advised >>accusations against fellow Archangels, as well as associating with >>one of the most powerful Diabolicals in Hell. > >I BEG your pardon?? When was this? I was under the impression that >Dominic and Asmodeus were both in charge of justice (or lack thereof in >Azzie's case) in their own respective realms, and never really bothered >to consider the existance of one another, much less meet on anything less >than the coldest of terms. > >Obviously I've missed a supplement somewhere. > >Geez, first day or two I sign onto a mailing list, then this fish drops >into my lap. (That's a metaphor. No, really.) Um, it's in Dominic's description in the main book. >> I don't think these >>are unrelated, nor do I think Dominic's really evil in his own >>right. I simply believe that Asmodeus is attempting to manipulate >>Dominic. > >If they see each other frequently, then it would certainly be in >Asmodeus' best interest to try to manipulate Dominic, or at least to find >out which angels he has under investigation so he can make plans to >handle defections. Dominic would probably want to do a certain amount of >that, but Seraphs and lying, well, let's just say it gets ugly. No, not lying... just seeing the truth from a different point of view (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). >By the same token, though, whatever deceptions Asmodeus pulled on >Dominic, Dominic would have the foresight to see through. Upshot: It's >awfully hard to pull the wool over Dominic's eyes, and Asmodeus would >probably find better things to do than try it. Like preventing people on >his own side from defecting to Heaven. Well, Dominic's got a lot of eyes, but it's entirely possible to not lie to someone and still deceive them. >But given that Dominic and Asmodeus are on non-hostile terms (I'd still >like to know why!), there's obviously more there than in the basic set. >This all becomes conjecture, ripe for the shooting down. Nope. Dominic and Asmodeus have been known to team up against Renegades. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:15:25 -0500 (CDT) From: corey@cfanet.com Subject: IN> remove At 08:32 PM 8/9/97 -0700, you wrote: > >>A side thought, faking an orgasm with a Seraph would be a very bad idea. >> > OTOH, a Balseraph who tried that would actually convince themself >they did, indeed, have the orgasm. Just try to prove they didn't. :) > >Alexander Shearer >nightgaunt@earthlink.net >gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:15:09 -0500 (CDT) From: corey@cfanet.com Subject: IN> Re:remove At 02:14 AM 8/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 06:13 PM 8/8/97 -0700, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>I have a few Superior ideas for In Nomine. >> >>Archangels: Katrina, archangel of humility, William, archangel of honor, >>and Frederick, archangel of courage. > >Katrina would be interesting, but the latter two would >infringe on the territories of Laurence (big on honor, him), >and Michael. > >>Demon Princes: Jasper, demon prince of envy, Cassandra, demon princess >>of pride, and Craindre, demon prince of panic. > >Jasper's going to be subsumed into Mammon, Prince of Greed, >and panic would probably belong to Beleth (fear's her priority). >Lucifer himself is likely Pride. > >Kestrel > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:23:09 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> PERCEIVING CELESTIALS On Sun, 10 Aug 1997 03:29:19 -0100, Henry Leirvoll wrote: >The more powerful a being, the easier it is to see? > >A Demon Prince would be noticed by anyone - even a mortal, at a mere glance! ... >But no .. I Really have a problem with this .. Keep in mind that this is just when they're in Celestial Form. In Corporeal Form, they're only detectable as special in just a few ways. (See Archangel Beth's list in the Resources section of the SJ Games In Nomine page.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:23:07 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Drew Angel of Sexuality On Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:13:22 -0400 (EDT), Thomas Davidson wrote: >... Have you ever tried jogging anywhere in New York? Yes... >that's it... breathe in those exhaust fumes. There is nothing I love more >than getting up at 4 in the morning to go outside and get a nostril full >of carbon monoxide. But that's probably just me. Just a suggestion, but it's probably just New York City and similar dense urban areas. Around here, it's typically fresh air just off the Pacific Ocean. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:26:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Superior Ideas >From: The Herder Family <"HERDER "@ix.netcom.com> >I have a few Superior ideas for In Nomine. > >Archangels: Katrina, archangel of humility, William, archangel of honor, >and Frederick, archangel of courage. Isn't that Katrina, *Reliever* of Humility? :) Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:47:24 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> PERCEIVING CELESTIALS >On perceiving celestials, views within "sight" rolls their perception PLUS >the number of Celestial forces the seen being has. - This the book tells >us. > > >I think this is odd. > > >The more powerful a being, the easier it is to see? > For a Celestial, yes. Possibly even for a Soldier, for a mundane, I wouldn't even bother to roll unless the Celestial in question was doing something to disturb the Symphony, or about to, as after all in Biblical mythology, thought is as damming as action. Also remember, that the more powerful a Celestial, the more unlikely they'll be found on Earth in any event. As for Seneschals, I think of Tethers as having a dual aspect, corporeal and divine that exist in the same space. Celestials travel to the corporeal aspect and can access the divine if the Seneshal admits them. Otherwise they're like the rest of the tourists who'd tramp up and down Normandy Beach (a Tether of Michaels)and never see anything else but sand. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:08:01 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: Re: IN> The Austin question >Sure, you can simply have a bunch of angels march into town and tear the >truce to shreds. At which point they have earned the wrath of a good >half-dozen reaonsably-powered celestials, not to mention at least one >Archangel (Novalis) and possibly one newly minted Demon Price. I don't think the original poster's point was that they necessarily wanted that...but I saw this immediately as well. For a lot of angels, being dumped into this setting would be something like... "What do you mean you're /friends/?" ...which would devolve into a massive conflict, etc. Yes, they'd earn those people's wrath, but...that would just be the tragic, inevitable end to their intrusion on the situation. The question is...do you want your group getting mangled like that? (The answer may be yes.) I just really didn't like Austin. It seems like all the angels are ready to trip, while the demons are sitting pretty. So what if there are angels there? They still get to do their thing without interference (as long as they avoid the semi-senile Malakite). The basic problem with the reply given above is that it assumes the players realize what would come of being good kids in the given situation. If that situation was just dropped in my lap as an angelic PC, I'd immediately run off and blow the whistle to someone.Of course, as written all the archs are copacetic with it, so then it would turn into some tragic realization that all the hierarchy seems to be teetering... (Which could also be a campaign.) Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:50:39 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Drew Angel of Sexuality Joel Mathis wrote: > > Hmmm... don't know about that. Bring focused on the needs of > the > > other person(s) in sex is not automatically a Good Thing. Some > people > > want that intense focus, some people want more distance. There's > > nothing wrong with viewing sex as primarily a means of pleasing > yourself > > - but you'd better develop some ability to please others if you want > to > > get regular sex! > I agree that specific method would differ from angels superior to > superior, > but my basic thought about it is that for the most part, angels would > not > be in it for themselves. I honestly don't think that many angels > would > have a good time if they thought that their partner wasn't enjoying > the sex > too. Caring about your partner(s) enjoying themselves isn't the same as having sex with the aim of pleasing them. It's a mutual gratification thing, most of the time. If you only have sex to please your partner, that's kinda dysfunctional. > A side thought, faking an orgasm with a Seraph would be a very bad > idea. They'll know, but will they understand why? - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Tell you a secret, they shared a needle once or twice I loved her, she loved me, we slept together a couple of times You think I'm proud of this, well maybe, but the shame you never lose Infatuated with a lunatic and cornered by the Muse. AFGHAN WHIGS, "What Jail is Like" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Drew Angel of Sexuality Realized I forgot a rite for Drew. Bring someone sexual pleasure Aid a human in exploring/learning a more postive sexual outlook(+2) SO, How does the character look over all? What sick person put an "S" in lisp? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 06:03:47 -0400 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> Fwd: Mail failure Pardon me for butting in, but I saw here an opportunity to interrupt and make some potentially constructive suggestions. Usually, though, they explode into a flurry of enraged, half-shouted obscenities and poorly formed emotional arguments. The words "Soldier of Malphas" keep ringing in my head; I can't imagine why. Anyway... Previously, from the desktop of in_nomine-digest... >>>>>There's nothing to say that Gabriel was nuts before the trial. >>Her description, rather, suggests that the trial itself was what >>pushed her.<<< >>It may suggest that, but there are other factors involved. >Probably, but being on trial for serving Heaven and her Word >wouldn't help. Let's jump back a step or two and consider Gabriel's nature. As an Ofanite, she may be a little flighty and unstable to begin with. Obsession with freedom and chaotic motion may be interpreted by some as symptomatic of insanity. As an Ofanite given the Word of Fire (in the Celestial sense, not just Corporeal, though the fact that she's made her home in a volcano says something), whatever interest she has in that freedom and chaotic motion will be intensified to the point of monomania. Upshot: by this point, if she's NOT insane, it's hard for even an Archangel to tell. She might as *well* be insane, because it's all part of her Word, and she's not going back on it. All this time, she has been celebrated for her nature and resonance. It may go to her head, or she may just see it as part of her job. Now figure: Yves, as part of one of her philosophical experiments, gives her instructions that fly in the face of certain of the existing philosophical memes in Heaven at the time. As a result, she's put on trial, investigated and persecuted by Dominic, and censured for carrying out orders and obeying that nature and resonance for which she was renowned. Upshot: If she was crazy before, this ordeal could have made her just the slightest bit crazier. In any case, it would definitely have made her more bitter. And regardless where she's freshly crazy, even crazier, or just really unhappy with her treatment, she pulled up her tentstakes, moved into the volcano on the border between Heaven and Hell, and doesn't deliver messages anymore. >I don't think of Dominic as evil, or petty. I think of him >as an Archangel who, over the millenia of his own success, >got drunk on his own hubris. I don't see him as evil or petty either. But hubris sounds an awful lot like a Discord to me. Instead, I prefer to see him as single-minded and overzealous: it's his duty to find and persecute any transgressions, and he does so to the fullest extent that he can. The fact that he may ruin lives and careers in the process is irrelevant. Using the Paranomine paradigm, think of Dominic as the head of Internal Security. Or at least as the head of Internal Affairs in any big city police department. During the course of investigating any crime, legitimate or not, he has to investigate everything which he thinks is suspicious. Besides, Dominic is a Seraph. Everyone knows they're all starchy-shorts. :) Consider Dominic's target of investigation: Eli. In the campaign background I've put together, I've made Eli's absence from Heaven a necessary and important part of maintaining his Word. However, the persecution continues. Regardless of whether Eli's absence is angelic, diabolic, or something entirely different in nature, his actions are still suspicious, and therefore he is suspect. > He then started making ill-advised >accusations against fellow Archangels, as well as associating with >one of the most powerful Diabolicals in Hell. I BEG your pardon?? When was this? I was under the impression that Dominic and Asmodeus were both in charge of justice (or lack thereof in Azzie's case) in their own respective realms, and never really bothered to consider the existance of one another, much less meet on anything less than the coldest of terms. Obviously I've missed a supplement somewhere. Geez, first day or two I sign onto a mailing list, then this fish drops into my lap. (That's a metaphor. No, really.) > I don't think these >are unrelated, nor do I think Dominic's really evil in his own >right. I simply believe that Asmodeus is attempting to manipulate >Dominic. If they see each other frequently, then it would certainly be in Asmodeus' best interest to try to manipulate Dominic, or at least to find out which angels he has under investigation so he can make plans to handle defections. Dominic would probably want to do a certain amount of that, but Seraphs and lying, well, let's just say it gets ugly. By the same token, though, whatever deceptions Asmodeus pulled on Dominic, Dominic would have the foresight to see through. Upshot: It's awfully hard to pull the wool over Dominic's eyes, and Asmodeus would probably find better things to do than try it. Like preventing people on his own side from defecting to Heaven. But given that Dominic and Asmodeus are on non-hostile terms (I'd still like to know why!), there's obviously more there than in the basic set. This all becomes conjecture, ripe for the shooting down. >Kestrel - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ No, not THAT David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 06:30:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Johnson Subject: IN> * FREE SOFTWARE * 1) What is SoftSEA Programs Center ? It is the most comprehensive Distribution Web Site for Windows Shareware & Freeware Software Programs The center is divided into 30 software areas, GAMES, JAVA, GRAPHICS, Windows Utilities, File & Disk Utilities, Business, Finance, PIMs, Screen Savers, and many others! These areas contain only the newest & coolest programs available. Every program has its own screen shot. All the programs can be downloaded for FREE by FTP, HTTP, or sent to you by E-mail. There is even a service by which you can discuss with all the users of the program you use. If you have uncertainties about the program, this is the place where your questions will get answered! 2) Where is SoftSEA Programs Center ? It is located on the World Wide Web at: http://www.softsea.com 3) In the end ... Hoping that you will download as many programs as you wish from the center, we kindly thank you, and we are waiting for you to surf over our sea of software at http://www.softsea.com Sincerely, Steve Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:31:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> IN, Contact and Stuff On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Dave Conrad wrote: > Just a few thoughts, mostly about Nybbas > > 1) I saw Contact earlier, and as soon as I saw James Woods, I thought > *It's Nybbas*, and as the movie went on, the impression grew. Of > course, when I first saw Nybbas in the book, I thought *It's James > Woods*, so . . . This is aided by the fact that Mr. Woods, did the voice of Hades in Disney's Hercules. Shadowcat ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #287 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.