From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Aug 16 23:37:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05112 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:37:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA12042 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:21:08 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:21:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199708170321.WAA12042@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #297 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, August 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 297 In this digest: Re: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism IN> In Nomine Pbem: Fade to Gray IN> Cambion Re: IN> lucifer's word Re: IN> Lilim Geases IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #296 -Reply IN> Superiors' Appearance IN> Lilim Geases IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism IN> Corporeal Vessels IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism Re: IN> Mortals who can change Reality Re: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism IN> What happened to the Light (was Lucy's Word) IN> Saints and the RC Church Re: IN> Saints and the RC Church Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels Re: IN> Chains of Command Re: IN> Immortal soldiers. Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels Re: IN> Lilim Geases IN> Motel 666 (6/9) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:47:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Hobbes Subject: Re: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism According to Casca: > > Interesting! You can even look at it the other > > way. Communism is basically faith since, despite decades > > of contrary evidence, people still believe in it. ;) > > I remember something a college economics professor said: from a strictly > theoretical standpoint, Communism is inherently more Christian than > Capitalism because, ideally, it tries to make sure everyone has what they > need. Ha ha! Then Capitolism would be sorta Karmic - cause everybody gets what they deserve! Dan Ozdowski - -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\//\ Beware the single most feared person in life..... The Articulate Incompetent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:32:06 +1000 From: ehp Subject: IN> In Nomine Pbem: Fade to Gray Hello. I was told by one of the people that responded to my pbem advertisement in the PBem news about this list, and so here I am. I am in the process of starting a Pbem game using In Nomine, and am accepting character submissions for the next couple of days. If you are interested, here is the blurb, if not, sorry to spam. :) Evan Fade to Gray There are some sounds that even immortal angels will never forget. Their first moments; the first time they heard the Symphony. That incredible moment when first a voice was raised in Discord, and Lucifer cried rebellion. Then, the awesome magnitude of sound as the Symphony drowned out the discordant voices, and the rebellion was cast out. But now, another sound will remain indelible in their minds. Now, it nears the turn of the Millennium. The rebellion was quashed over six thousand years ago. Only one third of the angels of heaven joined the Light Bringer, and all signs of the Serpent have been diligently cleansed from the Earth whenever they were found, and driven into Hell. The mundane world has remained mundane, with only the rarest occasions of possession or demonic intervention. Celestials on Earth, hidden in their Roles, go about their day to day tasks, without real concern for the future. Then, It happens. Utter, complete silence. The Symphony stops. Nothing moves. Creation holds its breath. Mortals remain frozen in place, and time holds still. The angels look up to the sky in that silent moment, and watch in utter confusion as all their Hearts fall from Heaven, tumbling down like snowflakes, a thousand baubles of light dropping from the sun as from a broken chandelier. They fall into the bodies of their vessels in silence. Then, distantly, a lone voice begins to sing. It is joined by others, and others, until once more the Symphony sounds out across the cosmos. Humans abruptly carry on their lives as though nothing has just happened, but for the occasional priest or shaman, who look about themselves strangely, as though seeing the world again for the first time. But You know that Something has changed forever. An In Nomine game, with a slightly altered perspective from the one presented in the rule book. I will be accepting submissions of characters and will choose only a few from them based upon background write up and how well they mesh with this intro. I am more looking for angels, but have not ruled out the possibility of accepting one (or perhaps two) well written demons. The last day for expressions of interest is monday (18th I think), and I will post back a list of things a character should include in their background. I intend this game to be bit of a stayer, with posts once to twice a week. I also would be happy to include anyone who wanted as a lurker (reader), to receive all pertinent posts of the game. All the best, Evan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:24:55 -0400 From: "Samuel J. Donnelly" Subject: IN> Cambion Hi folks, an idea I have been kicking around for a little bit. It was spawned from a small subconscious displeasure developed from too many sessions in systems with much more regemented differences between classes. Class type-Cambion Cambion have always been a point of confusion among the angels since the very begining. However, Dominic, in his "infinite wisdom" has decreed the spawning of a cambion by any celestial spirit is grounds for termination. Devils, on the other hand, have no such restrictions, as cambion, are, more or less human, if they fail to make any other life full of suffering, at least their own was a waste of humanity. So what is a cambion. - -They are the result of invested forces in a human, put there in celestial-mortal intercourse. - -This intercourse always results in a child being concieved, but in the process 1 pt of celestial forces is burned, perminently. This is not something done lightly. - -At Birth, the child is born with an extra force (celestial) and a point of etherial discord. - -Within two months, the child may be used as a location for the spirit of the demon/angel. The spirit then may enter dormancy until the child reaches puberty (yes, plot device. yes, a used one) - -At puberty the cambion develops 1 additional point of Corporeal forces and one additional point of corporeal discord. Here any dormant spirits make their play, the victor forcing the loser into dormancy, until a dramatically appropriate moment occurs. - -Another advantage is the cambions natural prelictitude to Numinus C. Songs, ever 2 points spent buys 3 actual points - -Cannot learn Ethereal and Celestial songs. - -Normal natural life expectancy is around 300 years (actuall more like 20 minutes after dominic discovers their existance, but the theory is at least that the body could last) - -needless to say, Eli and Dominic have discovered that this is one of their many points they do not reach eye to eye on. - -There is still the question being raised on the Messiah incident. Character creation (usually without dormant spirits) 2 for 3pts n. corp 7 forces (2min in Cel and Corp). Short life span 1pt discord (one phy, one ethereal) Just a thought.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:02:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> lucifer's word In a message dated 97-08-15 14:23:11 EDT, you write: << "light" could also mean something like "enlightenment," and enlightening someone often means they stop being conformists. which means they might rebel against something that they don't see are Right. however, i've also heard his name was the Son of Morning, as in the Dawn, the Bringer of Light. so maybe he enlightens others as well. >> Lucifer's word probably was "Dawn", but centuries went by and he got bored with it so he flipped the "W" upside down to spell "Damn". Sorry, couldn't resist...was cleaning it and it went off...sorry... - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:54:00 -0500 From: "Yeager, Alex" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases At 5:22 PM -0400 8/14/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> If you have a favor from Willard, the local mayor, President >> Clinton (don't ask), or something on that cute little Servitor of >> Creation who's operating the rival brothel.... >Though not specifically mentioned, this particular governor was not >adverse to other 'needs'. }=) Now the "Truth" Can Be Told!... [ring] "Senator D'Amato? This is Bill. You remember how I signed that welfare bill for y'all? Remember how I said I was sure you could return the favor someday? Well, I've got this budget bill, and there's a few things I need in there..." Would you put it past the leader of the "Free" World?... Alex Yeager yeagerAW@maritz.com MIB/FoL/INWO Local 23 P.S. My politics are not reflected in the preceding message. Nor the following. Fnord. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:03:32 -0400 From: Tony DeGeorge Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #296 -Reply I'll be out of the office from August 15th through the 24th, back again on August 25th. If you have publishing business that can't wait until I return, please contact Cindy Achar. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:37:54 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Superiors' Appearance >>>Probably depends on the boss, though -- Blandine probably *only* shows up corporeally (dissonant for her servitors to go celestial and all that) or uses the Ethereal Song of Tongues when you contact her... [etc.]<<< Yup. ;) - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:37:56 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim Geases >>>Only if the Geas was "At some point in the future, I or my agent will ask you for an unspecified favor roughly comprable to the one I did you, and you will do it."<<< Ugh! I don't think that should be allowed at all. MUCH too great a variable. That's kind of like "pre-testing" a Geas: you might as well let a Lilim, immediately upon putting a Geas on someone, say "Now, when I come back and ask you for a favor in return, you're going to do it", and make the subject roll his resistance right then. This is another thing Lilim would almost always do if it were possible-- why leave every Geas an unknown quantity, when you can test every one immediately upon creation, and THEN go back at some point in the future, secure in the knowledge that whatever you ask the subject, he'll HAVE to obey and you won't be risking any unexpected dissonance? Bad mechanic, no donut. >>>["Year." Only the most trivial of things could be geased "forever." (Hiding information, say.)]<<< Sheesh! Picky picky! I wasn't looking at your darn chart just to write an example off the top of my head! :Þ - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 06:58:49 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" > [analogy between God's plan and communism snipped] Interesting! You can even look at it the other way. Communism is basically faith since, despite decades of contrary evidence, people still believe in it. ;)< Then you get the effect that turned up in one of the TSR novels, where a devote communist can repel a vampire with the Hammer and Sickle. Adam Canning DahaK@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 06:58:56 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Corporeal Vessels From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" >Then again, I'm not adverse to giving a character Discord to pay for a vessel until they earn their Superior's good favor again. ("Well, the only Vessel I have in stock is the blind, three-legged dog... OR you can have the human with bad breath, wall-eyes and that darn flatulence problem") }=)< Discord is good, especially things like a Geas [Well I can get Novalis to make one for you but you are going to owe her]. or Addiction [ I think I've got one spare, but it needs a little work.] One the other hand, 1 point vessels become very use ful for pulling the it doesn't matter who nasty you are you can only kill me once a round and thus it just costs 1 character point [Spent in advance but 5 or 6 spare vessels bought in advance and people are going to start wondering if you are Legion back with a new trick. Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 06:59:01 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick When running Feast of Blades recently as a pick up game the parties ofanim of Jean decided to dial his friend on the motorway from the airport on his mobile phone and use his choir attunement to flash from one phone to the other. [Totally destroying both of course and wrecking a 5 series BMW's interior in the process.] Stricktly by the rules of course it probably shouldn't work by mobile phone, even if it does by land line, however since we were pressed for time I haddescribed the attunement as being like Crowleys Telephone trick in Good Omen's so I let it pass. The expressions on the other players faces however were priceless, especially the servitor of jean whose stolen car got trashed. What do people think is it to unbbalancing an extension of the ability to let the electrical body they create be transformed like other electrical signalss into radio waves or not? Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 06:58:59 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Lilim Geases On the various trading of Geas questions. I've been looking through the rules and there are a only three ways of being subject to a geas so far A)The favours you owe for being a Free Lilim B) Having a Lilim fufil a need for you C) The Gm decides to subject you to one [It is not on the random list] Under Lilim Game mechanics [IN p149] it says If she helps her victim, the lilim may at any time in the future ask for something in return.Lilim may only impose geasees on those whose need's they have attended to. The only place there is any state ment about trading Geases is Lilith's ability to give the favours that being a free lilim means you own to other people. [Thes are not subject to a will roll to resist.] On the other claw all it says about invoking the geas is when the victim hears what the Lilim wants. This I think would include could you do X for Mr Y but not you now owe Mr Y one.[unless you want to expend the geas to make the person feel in debt to Mr Y at which point you are relying on his personal code of behaviour to get a benefit.] On a simplistic view the lilims geases are favours people owe her. If she wants to trade them for some thing she is going to have to call those favours in herself to get something the person she is trading with wants, rather than passing them around like currency. I.E "Could you smneak my friend here into the company's private party" rather than this is Eric , you now owe him the favour you owed me. Lilith on the other hand can and does trade favours[which are then inflicted as Geases] Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:48:47 -0400 From: "Joel Mathis" Subject: Re: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism Casca Wrote > On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > [analogy between God's plan and communism snipped] > > > > Interesting! You can even look at it the other > > way. Communism is basically faith since, despite decades > > of contrary evidence, people still believe in it. ;) > > I remember something a college economics professor said: from a strictly > theoretical standpoint, Communism is inherently more Christian than > Capitalism because, ideally, it tries to make sure everyone has what they > need. > > An interesting idea, that. Another similarity to Christianity. Both look absolutely spectacular on paper, but when you introduce real human beings into the equasion, you wind up invading small countries. Joel Mathis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:31:27 +1000 From: peterf@wr.com.au (Peter Frederick) Subject: Re: IN> Mortals who can change Reality Dear John. >> Bodhisattva - mortals who have gained a glimpse of the Eternal Reality by >> their own actions. Most easily recognised amongst Mystics or Ascetics of a >> Gnostic or Zen background, but coming from any and all backgrounds. > > Bodhisattva is a game concept already. They are the human >souls of people who have died, but have chosen not to go to their >deserved reward in order to help their fellow humans. The ones that >return to earth are called Saints. (NM p.14) Hey I know the catholic church doen't make one a Saint before they die, but I think that It is bit cruel withholding union card til you pass that final exam. And similar for Bodhisattva. Anyway haven't found a copy of NM that has managed the swim to down under. And I still have that permission to do what ever I want in my game . Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:26:14 +1000 From: peterf@wr.com.au (Peter Frederick) Subject: Re: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism Dear John, Casca, Earl and others who commented. >Casca wrote: > >> I remember something a college economics professor said: from a strictly >> theoretical standpoint, Communism is inherently more Christian than >> Capitalism because, ideally, it tries to make sure everyone has what they >> need. > >The early Christians were often communal, that is, pooling their >possessions, and so "communist" in the old, pre-ideological sense. >Monastic communities still are, aren't they? > >Earl Wajenberg I just finished a book called "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" by Bishop Spong who made a comment that Early Christianity had a strong Social Justice element that later more organised christianity lost, only for it to be picked up by the Socialist movements reasonably lately in history. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:37:42 +1000 From: peterf@wr.com.au (Peter Frederick) Subject: IN> What happened to the Light (was Lucy's Word) Dear guys and gals Casca notes that Lucifer's Word of Light might be metaphorical and refer to spiritual and mental Enlightenment as well. Which I think is pretty spot on. But what happened to the duties of the Angel of Light when he left them. IHMO thare are two people who likely took some of the strain. The Angel of Purity and the Angel of Fire. And what happened to them, hmmm, one Gone and the other Mad (by some peoples measure). And then who had to pick up the slack from Purity having been taken away. How about Judgement? And has people's opinion of Judgement been going up or down since about 700 AD? Just a whisp of cognition. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:38:13 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: IN> Saints and the RC Church At 11:31 PM 8/16/97 +1000, Peter Frederick wrote: >Hey I know the catholic church doen't make one a Saint before they die, but >I think that It is bit cruel withholding union card til you pass that final >exam. And similar for Bodhisattva. Anyway haven't found a copy of NM that >has managed the swim to down under. The Catholic Church doesn't MAKE anyone a saint. They DECLARE that people were saints. I think it is good to wait until they have passed beyond. What if John Paul II declared Mother Teresa a "living saint" and then she went on a killing spree in India. That would be embarrasing. After a person is dead you can better evaluate their life and their sanctity. Sure people can be saints while they are alive, but they aren't recognized by the church as such. Speaks "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:36:52 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Saints and the RC Church speaks@mindspring.com wrote: > > At 11:31 PM 8/16/97 +1000, Peter Frederick wrote: > > >Hey I know the catholic church doen't make one a Saint before they die, but > >I think that It is bit cruel withholding union card til you pass that final > >exam. And similar for Bodhisattva. . > > The Catholic Church doesn't MAKE anyone a saint. They DECLARE that people > were saints. I think it is good to wait until they have passed beyond. > What if John Paul II declared Mother Teresa a "living saint" and then she > went on a killing spree in India. That would be embarrasing. After a person > is dead you can better evaluate their life and their sanctity. > > Sure people can be saints while they are alive, but they aren't recognized > by the church as such. Another thought--this is about what Heaven and Hell [the IN game] call Saints and Bodhisattvas, not what organized religions, even in the game [disregarding RL], call Saints and Bodhisattvas. After all, a Seraph, with a high CD, can determine a Soldiers Sainthood much easier than an human Church Commission. tom t., mandarin's butterfly to James the Stone Malakim "I am James--I will help you" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 16:30:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels > to earth. ;) Then again, I'm not adverse to giving a > character Discord to pay for a vessel until they earn their > Superior's good favor again. ("Well, the only Vessel I have Heh...though, now that you mention it, I'm afraid I'd see that more under the same rules as the added Charisma...I think you could get, say, a crippled Vessel WITHOUT having the Crippled Discord, which seems to be the case here. After all, the Corporeal Discords really have to be based in the Celestial, rather than the Vessel, or you'd just have to get another Vessel and ignore 'em. (Y'know, three points for that Vessel/1, then give it Crippled/6, Discolored/6, Stigmata/6, and Ugly/6...spend a few of the, what, 72 points you just got there on a Vessel without those and have a good 60 or so points left over...and just never invoke the first one. This obviously isn't how Discord was intended. ) I'd say you could get Discord at 1 point per Level, Vessel-specific, to otherwise offset the costs of that Vessel... (Mostly Corporeal Discords, but I could see a case for the others - say, you pick up a Vessel with inordinantly high testosterone levels, giving it Anger/3 and Lustful/2..) But, like the low Charisma, you can't use those points elsewhere... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:47:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Chains of Command > > I'd be inclined also to point out that the class of Servant also > > reflects its type, which entails a bit more than just Forces-and-CP count. > > So what you've got here is a Zombi or a puppy ordering around two basic > Well, Scoobiel might *want* a puppy - perhaps Scrappy? ;) Dogbert or Lassie, I think, are your best options, but the rules specifically note that the GM doesn't have to let it be "as smart as Lassie." (Hey, I bet the Abracadabra attunement for Eli can make Scoobie Snacks, though..) > cost for someone with these kind of resources? Surely a servant with > Staus/6 (Socialite), is worth less than one with Status/6 (President of > USA), or Status/6 (Director of CIA), even if they're the same force level. Hm, good point...now, they DO take a moment to rule out the Prez himself as a Servant for a beginning Celestial, but they don't give enough solid basis for that to make it very expandable...the Servant rules seem very much geared for Soldier and Undead servants, without real allowances for servants in other `roles'...though Status, in that regard, seems separate from the Servant Class. (Eg. you buy your Human Male Servant4/2 for 4 points, and then ten of HIS twenty character points have to go to buying him up to Status/6 (2 points per level, but the first one's free, kid..)) Status, of course, doesn't go all the way up to President, and I don't see to much trouble between the Socialite and the Director of the CIA...from the Socialite, you can get a million dollar loan, rent the Concord for a night, or crash at his mansion; from the Director, you can get a team of agents, a peek at some records, or access to some interesting experimental weaponry (which, if you're Angelic, you'll probably have to track down and get rid of anyway, since half that stuff comes from Vapula..) > Another thought: A cheap trick is to make your servant really low on Will > so you can push it around, even at low level. A servant/6 at level 1 is Yeah, but I consider a low Will to be enough of a disadvantage that this isn't really much of a trick. (Balseraph walks up and says, "Hey, man, that's not the guy you work for..that's his evil twin." [Invoke resonance, and hey presto - your Servant helps him attack you] Haballah walks up and says, "Don't you just HATE the way he bosses you around?" [Invoke Fury, and hey presto - your Servant helps him attack you] Lilim does him a little favor. [Invoke Geas, and hey presto] Shedim shacks up in him, Impudite Charms him, hey presto hey presto...) And the tougher you made him, the worse off you are. Not to mention just about any Song working like, well, a charm... On the flip side, I still like using the Servant Level on Zombis to allow them to RESIST commands from other people (since, by definition, they HAVE no Will...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:07:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Immortal soldiers. > > One of my soldier players noticed that if a Soldier spends one point on > > Corporeal Song of Entropy, he's immortal. Oh, sure, he can't control > As far as I know, no one thinks this is a bug. Mind you, > the odds of intervention go up dramatically if you attempt this Besides, if you really want to live forever, just befriend an Ofanim of Eli. They don't even have to roll for it.. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:05:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels > On Aug 13, 1:19pm, Michael Stanley wrote: > > When a Vessel is killed, and the Celestial form goes off to recover from > > Trauma, how does the angel/demon make a new Vessel once the Trauma is over? And Karakash replied; > It does, in fact, cost points (YMMV depending on the campaign!). I have to admit, I hadn't even noticed there was a question on this..I didn't think you HAD to `buy' a new Vessel. (For `canon' precedent, I'd note the comment under Servants that if your Servant dies, you can get a new one, either next session or when you can play it out.) It had struck me that if you're an Angel, you get bounced back to Heaven, where, once you come out of Trauma, you have to deal with your Superior..(and your peers, who may or may not snigger a little)...but chances are, you get healed up and sent back. If you're a Demon, you pop up in Hell, where, again, you have to deal with your Superior (and your peers, who will definitely snigger and may or may not tie you down in your weakened state and beat you for a few hours just for the heck of it)..whereupon you're either healed and sent back or sent back still badly weakened, depending on your Superior's whim and possibly on what other influence/contacts you may have in Hell. {In most cases, however, I'd suggest they heal you - they don't want to see your ugly face right back in a couple minutes, after all.} The risks of `dying' Corporeally come in being out of the action for a few days, the fact that Trauma is, how can I put this..traumatic (a role-playing problem, and one that should rightly vary greatly from character to character, but worth noting), and, of course, the fact that if it happens too often, you get pulled from Earth Duty and they send someone perhaps a mite more durable (eg. you get to make up a new character. Congratulations, Punching-Bag Boy!) Malakim, of course, only have to worry about the last and their reputation, but that's just one of the perks of being Malakim. Granted, this makes Corporeal Death not terribly significant for most Celestials, but I'd got the impression it wasn't intended to be. They're Celestial, after all. It's Celestial death that scares 'em. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:31:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases > > Now, Beth has a good point HERE that a Lilim could > >seriously abuse a Servant this way...but hey, that's what Servants are > >for, right? > It's still way too easy. (Listen to me, arguing *against* a way > for my favorite Band to escape dissonance forever...) Actually, thinking about it, it'd be a silly waste of a Servant anyway. How high a Level of Geas can it be to just ask someone to go up to a stranger and say, "Go call up Lawrence and sing `I'm a little tea pot'", anyway? Just catch someone in a Geas/2 and invoke THAT to make them invoke your Geas on the Malakite, with the note that after subtracting the Geas level, hardly any humans have a chance of resisting anyway.. > per se in the book right now. Currently, *only* Seraphim get the > Whole Truth bit, *only* Elohim (and Habbalah) can sense emotions, > *only* Mercurians spot social ties, *only* Balseraphs impose their > lies on others, etc. Only Seraphim get the WHOLE truth, but anyone can learn to get a bit of it. Anyone can learn to read emotions, just not as reliably as an Elohim. Anyone can lie or talk another person into feeling a particular way, or learn their social ties, et cetera...heck, anyone can rip a door apart, with a little effort. Resonance just does it BEST. As it stands, the Lilim Geasa are the ONLY Resonance that flat out can't be imitated, if not duplicated...so I'm very much liking the idea that what the Lilim Resonance amounts to is the two-fold ability to see what people Need, and in being the only ones who subtract the Geas from the victim's Will to resist. > (Though if such Songs do start showing up, it will still be *only* > the Choir/Band that can do it *quietly*... Unless they're boosting Yep. Quieter, easier, better, but not only - just like everyone else's. > >'em. ('Course, he can spend that Essence, but don't forget - Lilim have > >Essence, too.) > Lilim Essence doesn't matter -- it's not a Will contest. It's rather > one-sided that way. I was thinking it could be used to lower an opponent's Target number as well as raise your own...I think I was confusing with some other system, though. > >(As Andrealphus looks at you quizically and asks, "But darling, what do > Ah, but if you have a favor from Willard, the local mayor, President > Clinton (don't ask), or something on that cute little Servitor of What, you think Andrealphus doesn't have plenty of favors on Clinton as it is? > Creation who's operating the rival brothel.... That might be of some interest, but that was also harder to get, and Andre MIGHT have some curiosity as to just what Need you fulfilled. (This is always a danger with Geasing Angels, I think. Usually you have to do something that's going to annoy Asmodeus, at least, just to have the shot at it...) > Exactly.... And that's the sort of thing that makes > being a Lilim *fun*! Huh. I thought it was the leather corsets. *shrug* (Oh, wait..that's what makes being WITH a Lilim fun. Nevermind.) > It all depends on how you work it. Go up to them in the department > store, and watch them grit their teeth. Might be a good idea to have Depends on the Malakim. Their Oath says, "Don't suffer an evil to live," not "Don't make a mess in Bloomingdales." I'm willing to bet a fair number of them will off your servant right there, as soon as he opens his mouth and says, "Hey, you owe me this fav--" > No, the dissonance has to hit *someone* -- no free lunches. (And I've > decided that letting non-Lilim invoke untested Geasa is A Bad Idea. > Too many weird effects.) Nah, not for me. Just not letting Lilim trade untested Geasa is easy, but boring, and this concept of broad `testing' irks me. Geasa are traditionally pretty specific - I don't think you CAN invoke one with something that open-ended. That's what an UNTESTED Geas is - "I or my agent will contact you to request a favor, which you will then do." If you could just invoke that as a Geas and then have it stick when you come back later and ask them to do something horrible, they'd just do THAT all the time. And ESPECIALLY considering that an invoked Geas hangs out as Discord until its fulfilled, while the untested ones don't. (I think we're all agreed on that aspect, anyway.) Nope, sorry. I just can't go with that. Invoking a Geas -HAS- to give the subject something to DO, that they can fulfill and get it over with. (Otherwise, forget sending that Malakite to annoy Lawrence. Just invoke it, untested, and walk away. Wait for Dominic's guys to notice this splotch of Discord and rip 'im to shreds. This strikes me as FAR too easy, even if the poor widdle Willim has to risk a whole point of Dissonance to do it..) > I'm just thinking that letting non-Lilim invoke untested Geases is > a Can'O'Worms that will generate lots of nastythings -- if they > *can* invoke them, then you have to explain why (when it's not in > their natures) Again, I see Geasa as a Lilim nature thing the way emotions are an Elohim nature thing. It's not like they aren't and can't BE there without the appropriate Celestial...just that the Resonance lets you do it BEST, by leaps and bounds. > I prefer to think that an untested Geas is too fragile for trading > around except to those who instinctively know how to handle Geases I'll grant, that makes sense, at least...but I still think it's boring. (It's okay, I'd actually let you have a doughnut anyway.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:51:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Motel 666 (6/9) Margali here again for Motel 666, where we're not gonna charge you a dollar for a bucket of ice. Heck, we don't even *have* ice. We haven't even *seen* ice since...well, since Hell froze over. But come on down to Motel 666, where the coffee is always hot, and whatever temperature the room is is room temperature. We'll leave the goat on for you. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #297 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.