From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Aug 20 01:15:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18597 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 01:15:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02431 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:57:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:57:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199708200157.UAA02431@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #301 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, August 19 1997 Volume 01 : Number 301 In this digest: Re: IN> Words for Destiny Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels Re: IN> Words for Destiny Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Re: IN> Humans Q. Re: IN> Night Music - Comments and hopes Re: IN> Fluff (Superiors' Appearance) Re: IN> Lilim Geases IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Re: IN> Words of God and Satan Re: IN> Words for Destiny IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN> Words for Destiny Re: Celestials and Computers (Re: IN> Humans and Skills) Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:42:19 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny On Aug 18, 10:56am, Emily K. Dresner wrote: > Subject: IN> Words for Destiny > > Hallo - > > I'm planning for my next session, and I'm suddenly in need of a good solid > NPC. But I cannot figure out good words for angels of destiny for the > life of me. > > Angels\Demons of Corruption, yes. Destiny, no. :) A lot of the teaching-style words will work well for Destiny. Yves' word is about becoming the best person you can possibly be, right? So teachers of all sorts should be solidly in his good category. Libraries seem a natural as well. Knowledge sounds good, as well as Archives. You could get totally wild with this one, if you wished! A possible Role for an angel of Yves might be something like this: Kalamon Angel of Street Gangs Malakim Servitor of Destiny, Friend of the Sages Corporeal Forces - 6 Strength 12 Agility 12 Ethereal Forces - 4 Intelligence 7 Precision 9 Celestial Forces - 5 Will 10 Perception 10 Vessels: Human/6 (Michael Jones, young adult), Human/3 (Katy Corman adult female), Charisma/2 Role: Gang Leader/5, Instructor/3 Skills: Various... especially combat stuff Songs: Numerous. Healing is important here! ;) Attunements: Malakim of Destiny, Mercurian of Destiny, Divine Destiny, Divine Logic Vows: The standard, teach at least 12 people a year to defend themselves, organize at least one event that brings a community together each month, patrol 'home' area at least once a week (a minimum of eight hours). Special Rites: Each time a person is encouraged to learn something that puts them closer to their Destiny (i.e. increases a skill while under Kalamon's tutelage), he gets 1 Essence. If Kalamon creates a Soldier, he gets 5 Essence! Kalamon spends his days organizing and training people to defend themselves against predators... other humans. He encouraged the formation of the various 'goodie two shoes' street gangs that protect the local citizens. He's active in women's self defense groups (in his female vessel). He even teaches boy scouts karate. He likes neighborhood watches and 'take back the streets' nights. His followers sometimes get a little rough with the criminals they find, but war is hell as they say. Kalamon pushed hard for the basketball courts for inner cities program (he plays a mean game himself!) ;) Any time people start to take charge of their own lives and destiny and come together to face evil, he's a little bit happier. Michael Jones is an african-american man, about 22-23 years old. He has the uncanny ability to gain the trust of even the younger street kids and has stolen quite a few of them away from working for drug dealers. Naturally the drug dealers objected which usually made them subject to a 'raid'. During a raid, Michael's boys rush in with a uhaul, bust into a crack house (for example), chase all the drug addicts out and ruin all the drugs and paraphernalia. Sometimes the addicts are given to the cops, other times they are just hasseled. No one uses a gun, but some of the Soldiers have learned various Songs to help out on the more dangerous raids (Song of Healing is universal). Katy Corman is a more public figure in the community. She speaks, goes to seminars, trains women in a particularly vicious form of self-defense and generally seems to be everywhere at once. She counsels women in abusive relationships. It's no coincidence that some spouse-beaters have found themselves at the wrong end of some _painful_ attention! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:45:37 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels On Aug 18, 10:52am, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels > > Non-canon stuff! > > ================ > > But very good none the less - now I have a better idea of how new > angels are formed. With the concepts I had before, either nothing > formed new forces, and everything was recycled, or regular essence > could be used to make forces. > > > During a session one point of quintessence can be converted > > immediately to five points of essence but causes five disturbance > > (over and above whatever use the essence is put to). > > Any reason for five, or is that just pulled from thin air? Quint=five. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:58:20 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny At 22:22 +0100 8/18/97, Sam Kington wrote: >Actually, make that the Demon of Human Resources ;-). Wouldn't that be Phil, Demon Prince of Heck? Along with his Spoon, which is obviously a talisman of some sort? Of course, Catbert is just a disguised vessel for a truly evil Demon Prince instead, maybe. Just the thing you need for a silly game of IN. SeanMike would that make Scott Adams a Seraphim?:) - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:34:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Joel Mathis wrote: > No, time is an absolute. If you travelled in time, you could not change the > course of history if you tried. Admittedly less dramatic, but thats the > only way I can resolve time travel with chaos theory. If you go back in > time you would disturbing how the particals move, and this would continue > to expand, getting worse and worse as time goes by. The butterfly's wings > in China changing the course of the hurricane in the Atlantic. Another veiw on chaos therie is proposed by Ray Bradbury in "A Sound of Thunder" in "R is for Rocket." If you haven't read it you need to. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:24:22 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > 1. Possessor's strength x possessor's corporeal forces > (matches the host vessel of zero idea) > > 2. Possessor's strength x possessor's corporeal forces + host's Toughness > (matches John K.'s ruling for death at negative body + Toughness) > > 3. Possessor's strength x (possessor's corporeal forces + host's Toughness) > (matches the idea that Toughness is close to an added vessel level) I'm pretty much in favor of '3'. There is a caveat in that there's some talk among the Gods to limit the stats a possessor can bring into a Host. My vote was that it wasn't a huge problem, even if a sparrow ends up with Strength/10. (They may be strong, but leverage is awful! ;) ) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:47:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Joel Mathis wrote: > No, time is an absolute. If you travelled in time, you could not > change the course of history if you tried. Admittedly less dramatic, > but thats the only way I can resolve time travel with chaos theory. > If you go back in time you would disturbing how the particals move, > and this would continue to expand, getting worse and worse as time > goes by. The butterfly's wings in China changing the course of the > hurricane in the Atlantic. Actually, it's possible, both in physical theory and in role-playing practice, to have time travel without changing the past, and in role-playing it can be fun. On the real-world physical theory side, one of the current gurus of general relativiy, James (I think) Misner, has found that you can do weird things with wormholes and such to produce timegates, and that you can have consistent history and physics around such, since, in quantum-mechanical terms, any history changing amounts to a wave pattern than cancels itself out by self-interference. Long before Misner came up with that, my role=playing cronies and I have been gaming a time-travel game of mixed fantasy and SF (elves in space opera, for instance, or robots in the Falkenstein world) where the past cannot be altered. We didn't know abou;quantum mechanics -- we were just reasoning on historical consistency. In our game, if you *try* to alter the past while visiting there, you are welcome to try, but you'll fail. The apparent bad luck that prevents you we call "timelock." So, for instance, if you travel back a week and take it into your head to call yourself on the phone to tell your past self to avoid the terrible mistake that resulted in your being chased back a week in the past ... you can try, but you won't be able to find a working phone, or you'll dial the wrong number, or your number will be busy, or SOMETHING. Having to maneuver around the established past in this way actually makes the tactical situation of the game MORE interesting. It is also fun to see players worry about whether a given piece of bad luck was timelock or just bad luck. The massed logs of this campaign (which has been running, on and off, for many years) are posted on the Web at http://www.ultranet.com/~brons/Tuesday/Pantope.html Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:16:49 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > You still have to worry about Trauma unless you have a _lot_ of Body Bags. (BTW, do small vessels have Body Baggies? Is that with or without the ziplock(tm) feature?) < Not if I'm a Malakim. Also Trauma only effects you if you have no vessels left [IN p 67] "If he has another mortal body to go to right then, he cheats death. Otherwise he suffers Trauma." Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:06:06 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Humans Q. John Karakash (you've no idea how often I typo that...) said:- > > On Aug 5, 11:22am, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: > > Subject: IN> Humans Q. > > According to the new (Night Music) rules, humans don't have vessels - > > they just get CorpF*ST hits. (Implies Vessel/0.) > > > > Question: What happens to them at negative hits? Under the current > > rules, they die instantly... > > Good question! Hmmmm... I'd say that they die when they > get to negative ST. I'm not entirely happy with that idea personally. My idea is that humans die when they reach -1*(CorpF + Str). Any other ideas? I think death at - -1*(CorpF*Str) is OTT, even for IN. Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:37:26 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Night Music - Comments and hopes Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > > While we're on the subject of metal and Superiors: > > > > David is the AA of Power Metal; Saminga is the DP of... you got it, > > Death Metal; Yves is the AA of Neo-classical Metal; Michael is the AA > > of Metal Solos (and therefore would be Yngwie's Superior if it > > weren't for the fact that Y.M. is a Balseraph); > > Vapula and Jean are battling furiously for control of Techno... ...and Gabie is running pyrotechnics, at least when she can get the B-man to stop interfering with her work [he keeps trying to outdo her in pyro...]! tom t., mandarin's butterfly to James, the Stone Malakim singing baritone background vocals... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:29:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fluff (Superiors' Appearance) At 4:43 PM -0500 8/19/97, Shadowcat wrote: >On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Not necessarily, you know -- there's smut and there's smut. Eli >> likes caring smut, at least in our games. The XXXenophile >> Card Game, for instance... And the comics, of course. > > Does Eli ever appear as "Le Petit Morte?" ;-) Sorry, I just spent >last night organizing all my spare XXXenophile cards. "That...that form! That robe! WHO COULD IT BE!" (Secret Reason Dominic is bent on persecuting the Archangel of Creation...) emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:02:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases At 1:37 AM -0400 8/16/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Only if the Geas was "At some point in the future, I or my agent >will ask you for an unspecified favor roughly comprable to the >one I did you, and you will do it."<<< > >Ugh! I don't think that should be allowed at all. MUCH too great a >variable. That's kind of like "pre-testing" a Geas: you might as well let a >Lilim, immediately upon putting a Geas on someone, say "Now, when I come >back and ask you for a favor in return, you're going to do it", and make >the subject roll his resistance right then. Exactly. Pre-testing it. Resistance is rolled right then. (And, I am thinking, that would use up some of the Geas' levels -- so if you "pre-test" a Geas/6 in that manner, you can only call in a Geas/5. Or maybe it just takes out half -- a Geas/2 or 3 becomes a Geas/1, a Geas/1 goes poof, a Geas/4 or 5 turns into a Geas/2, and a Geas/6 becomes a Geas/3.) >This is another thing Lilim >would almost always do if it were possible-- why leave every Geas an >unknown quantity, when you can test every one immediately upon creation, >and THEN go back at some point in the future, secure in the knowledge that >whatever you ask the subject, he'll HAVE to obey and you won't be risking >any unexpected dissonance? You lose levels of Geas that way. (And I don't mind pre-testing 'em -- if the guy makes his Will roll, they get dissonance. They're just choosing "sure thing, lower Geas/dissonance when I'm expecting it" or "higher Geas/chance of dissonance in a crunch when I can least afford it".) >Bad mechanic, no donut. Oh, I don't know -- using "part" of the Geas up to "test" it sounds like a notion. Maybe you can use as much of the Geas as you want, and *that's* the penalty to the Will-roll, but those parts go poof? (E.g., Tahapenes gets a Geas/6 on some poor mortal, in the course of planning something. She really only *needs* him for a day, but she *really* needs him then. She chooses to use four levels of the Geas to "test" it ("You owe me.") and the mortal rolls Will-4 and probably fails ("Yes, I owe you."). Taha can now inflict a Geas/2 on him in the future, with no chance of lashback.) >>>>["Year." Only the most trivial of things could be geased "forever." >(Hiding information, say.)]<<< > >Sheesh! Picky picky! I wasn't looking at your darn chart just to write an >example off the top of my head! :Þ :-pbpbpbpttt! Well, why not! :-) At 6:58 AM -0400 8/16/97, Adam Canning wrote: >On the various trading of Geas questions. I've been looking through the >rules and there are a only three ways of being subject to a geas so far > >A)The favours you owe for being a Free Lilim >B) Having a Lilim fufil a need for you >C) The Gm decides to subject you to one [It is not on the random list] D) A Lilim's self-Geas. Yes, it's perfectly valid to be able to say, "You can't trade Geases at all, except to Lilith herself." But that's no fun. At 6:31 PM -0600 8/16/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Actually, thinking about it, it'd be a silly waste of a Servant >anyway. How high a Level of Geas can it be to just ask someone to go up >to a stranger and say, "Go call up Lawrence and sing `I'm a little tea >pot'", anyway? Just catch someone in a Geas/2 and invoke THAT to make them >invoke your Geas on the Malakite, with the note that after subtracting the >Geas level, hardly any humans have a chance of resisting anyway.. That too. >> per se in the book right now. Currently, *only* Seraphim get the >> Whole Truth bit, *only* Elohim (and Habbalah) can sense emotions, >> *only* Mercurians spot social ties, *only* Balseraphs impose their >> lies on others, etc. > > Only Seraphim get the WHOLE truth, but anyone can learn to get a >bit of it. Anyone can learn to read emotions, just not as reliably as an >Elohim. Anyone can lie or talk another person into feeling a particular >way, or learn their social ties, et cetera...heck, anyone can rip a door >apart, with a little effort. Resonance just does it BEST. As it stands, >the Lilim Geasa are the ONLY Resonance that flat out can't be imitated, if >not duplicated...so I'm very much liking the idea that what the Lilim >Resonance amounts to is the two-fold ability to see what people Need, and >in being the only ones who subtract the Geas from the victim's Will to >resist. Ah, but if you mean by *mundane* means, Lilim are just as duplicable: anyone can use Knowledge: Psychology to gently interrogate someone about what they want, and then guilt-trip them into a favor later. >> Lilim Essence doesn't matter -- it's not a Will contest. It's rather >> one-sided that way. > I was thinking it could be used to lower an opponent's Target >number as well as raise your own...I think I was confusing with some other >system, though. I can't recall any rules that let you use Essence on somebody else's Target Number. >> >(As Andrealphus looks at you quizically and asks, "But darling, what do >> Ah, but if you have a favor from Willard, the local mayor, President >> Clinton (don't ask), or something on that cute little Servitor of > What, you think Andrealphus doesn't have plenty of favors on >Clinton as it is? Details, details... >> Creation who's operating the rival brothel.... > That might be of some interest, but that was also harder to >get, and Andre MIGHT have some curiosity as to just what Need you >fulfilled. Hey, these are Servitors of Creation we're talking about here! Look at their Rites... ("Well, she needed some Essence, y'see...") >(This is always a danger with Geasing Angels, I think. Usually >you have to do something that's going to annoy Asmodeus, at least, just to >have the shot at it...) (Nobody ever said that it was easy to trade with the featherheads.) >> Exactly.... And that's the sort of thing that makes >> being a Lilim *fun*! > Huh. I thought it was the leather corsets. *shrug* (Oh, >wait..that's what makes being WITH a Lilim fun. Nevermind.) (Depends on how well the corset fits, and what other... *AHEM*.) >> It all depends on how you work it. Go up to them in the department >> store, and watch them grit their teeth. [...] > Depends on the Malakim. Their Oath says, "Don't suffer an evil to >live," not "Don't make a mess in Bloomingdales." I'm willing to bet a >fair number of them will off your servant right there, as soon as he opens >his mouth and says, "Hey, you owe me this fav--" It does tend to trash the Role you've got, though. And, as said above, it doesn't *really* need a servant -- just someone with a Geas/2 or Geas/1. >> No, the dissonance has to hit *someone* -- no free lunches. (And I've >> decided that letting non-Lilim invoke untested Geasa is A Bad Idea. >> Too many weird effects.) > Nah, not for me. Just not letting Lilim trade untested Geasa is >easy, but boring, and this concept of broad `testing' irks me. Geasa are >traditionally pretty specific - I don't think you CAN invoke one with >something that open-ended. That's what an UNTESTED Geas is - "I or my >agent will contact you to request a favor, which you will then do." Unfortunately, not. There are two kinds of Geas -- the kind that Lilim can self-Geas themselves to do, and the kind that they get on other people. On the first, there's no Will roll. (No Will roll if you promise Lilith anything in return for a chat, either.) On the second, there is, and there's a chance of dissonance if the Will roll succeeds. *** Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the target should make the *** *** Will roll *when the Need is fulfilled*, & if he fails it, then *** *** the Lilim gets her Geas (tradeable, visible as Discord), and *** *** if he makes the Will roll, she gets the dissonance. Get rid *** *** of all this dratted nonsense about tested vs. untested. :-p *** >If >you could just invoke that as a Geas and then have it stick when you come >back later and ask them to do something horrible, they'd just do THAT all >the time. True, though I don't think I'd mind that -- they still have to risk getting dissonance with a "pre-test." And, as you say below... >And ESPECIALLY considering that an invoked Geas hangs out as >Discord until its fulfilled, while the untested ones don't. (I think we're >all agreed on that aspect, anyway.) That won't matter as much with humans, though if you're concerned about Servitors of Judgment wandering around.... >> I prefer to think that an untested Geas is too fragile for trading >> around except to those who instinctively know how to handle Geases > I'll grant, that makes sense, at least...but I still think it's >boring. (It's okay, I'd actually let you have a doughnut anyway.) What about burning part of a Geas to "test" it ahead of time? Get a smaller, tradeable Geas, etc. At 4:39 AM -0400 8/19/97, David Edelstein wrote: [Karakash wrote] >>>>I think that was with the assumption that either the Geas level would be >reduced if tested, or that the Will roll would be better for the Geasee.<<< > >I still don't like it. Geases should be binding when the task is >announced-- they shouldn't be blank checks. If you put a Geas/6 on someone, >and turn it into an unspecified, pre-tested Geas/4, that's still a pretty >powerful effect! Hey, it's what the Lilim themselves are walking around with, and what they trade with people! Why is it any less fair to let them take the risk ahead of time and get that blank check? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:16:44 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Angels, God's Plan and Communism From: Jeff Miller >> >> Interesting! You can even look at it the other >>way. Communism is basically faith since, despite decades >>of contrary evidence, people still believe in it. ;)< >> >>Then you get the effect that turned up in one of the TSR novels, where a >>devote communist can repel a vampire with the Hammer and Sickle. >> >Which TSR novel? >BTW, the same thing was done in Doctor Who (seventh Doctor). St John the Pursuer: Vampire in Moscow by Richard Henrick. From other evidence it appeared to be inteneded as the first of a modern day horror series but TSR only published the one. Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony > > No, time is an absolute. If you travelled in time, you could not change the > course of history if you tried. Admittedly less dramatic, but thats the > only way I can resolve time travel with chaos theory. You don't need anything as complex as chaos theory to rule out changing the past. It involves a contradiction. If it is true that the allies won in 1945, then going back and ensuring that the Nazi's win means that the allies did *not* win in 1945. Moreover, they *never* won in 1945, because there is only one time for them to have won in 1945 and that is in 1945 - when Hitler wins. Hitler won in 1945 and as things were never any different, nothing has changed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:18:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Words of God and Satan On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Jeff Miller wrote: > >That sounds rather similar to 'Creation' to me. Amusingly, 'Eli' translates > >as 'My God' > > > Oh, my! > > Wouldn't *that* put Dominic's knickers in a twist.... > > It would indicate a bit of a sense of humor on the Creator's part too. Of course God has a sense of humor. Look at the duckbilled platypus... - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:16:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Sam Kington wrote: > Hmmm. How about the Angel of Second Chances (anyone who saw the > Hudsucker Proxy will know what I'm talking about), or the Demon of > Downsizing (poor sap loses his job, goes mad, blows up a building / > opens fire in a supermarket and gets gunned down by the police). > Actually, make that the Demon of Human Resources ;-). After reading this, it occurred to me that reading Dilbert would give a GM lots of ideas for Words of servitors of Kronos, Asmodeus and especially Malphas. Which Word would Catbert serve? ;) - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:16:52 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" > Not unbalancing, per se, but probably outside the scope of the Attunement. This is, however, probably not outside the scope of _Jean's_ word, so allowing it as a 'higher level' version of the Attunement wouldn't be out of the question. Maybe five more points so that you can be a radio wave as well? < How about like this if you think it's too powerful. [This is how the Ofanims who started the question believes his ability works anyway.] Servitor of Lightning Attunement Direct Dialing. The angel can by making a telephone connection. Transmit his corporeal vessel from the telephone he is holding to any other telephone, modem or fax machine in existance. This will do 3 dice damage to any obstructions if there is insufficient space for the Angels celestial form to appear close to the exit device. This attunement ony costs 5 points to Ofanim of Lightning. Cherubim of Lightning may use the telephone that they can materialise with their choir attunment.. Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 16:29 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny [johnk offers:] >Angel of Street Gangs >Malakim Servitor of Destiny, Friend of the Sages Wouldn't this character make a *lot* more sense as a servitor of David than Yves? After all, the description sounds a lot like the sorts of things David's lot does.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:41:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Coon" Subject: Re: Celestials and Computers (Re: IN> Humans and Skills) On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > On Aug 18, 10:05am, Tapio Erola wrote: > > Subject: Re: Celestials and Computers (Re: IN> Humans and Skills) > > > I'd say it does save state, right in the angel itself, I'd call that > > > part of the attunement. The angel doesn't have to waste time booting up > > > the machine, it appears right and ready, all booted up in Divine-DOS 1.0 > > > > No way. Heavenly machine would _NEVER_ operate on _any_ kind of DOS. > > That software comes directly from Vapula. > > > > Divine computers run UNIX. (Probably Jean or Yves deemed that time was > > right and gave a sample to certain finnish hacker... :) > > Y'know... I think Jean must have a tether somewhere in Bell > Labs. Look at the cool stuff that has come out of there... Unix and > C to name only two. Of course, since I work for a division of > Lucent/Bell Labs, I'm pretty sure we are on the side of angels! ;) I'm pretty sure _every_ OS was designed by Vapula, with a special bit of coding to make the user extraordinarily devoted to the OS over all others... No frigging way would I call UNIX divine. I suppose it's closer to it than MS/Mac, but I think that's like saying a politician is divine because he hasn't slaughtered his family and stuffed them in a freezer... Anyway, DOS isn't necessarily the Microsloth product. And, Mr. Karakash, I have a feeling my corp would argue with your opinion of whose side you're on... (I'm interning with Siemens Business Communication...) :) Rob Coon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 15:49 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases >>>>I think that was with the assumption that either the Geas level would be >reduced if tested, or that the Will roll would be better for the Geasee.<<< > > >I still don't like it. Geases should be binding when the task is >announced-- they shouldn't be blank checks. If you put a Geas/6 on someone, >and turn it into an unspecified, pre-tested Geas/4, that's still a pretty >powerful effect! Yeah, but it doesn't let you do anything more than you could have asked the guy for, if you'd asked something specific in the first place -- in fact, with the level reduction, it's less. And he'd *still* have failed the roll, since the task itself doesn't generate any modifiers to the Will roll, just the Geas level. I don't see this as unbalancing, in fact I see it as favoring the victim (due to the level reduction). All it really does is give the Lilim some more flexibility in who she can trade the Geas to, and when. In strict mechanics terms, it simply pre-rolls the Will roll for the victim -- whether he rolls now or later doesn't really make much difference to what the ultimate result is. The Lilim's presence can't affect the Will roll, either -- there are no modifiers there. Also, this *is* the way Lilith's Geases on Lilim work -- an unspecified future task. It seems reasonable that Lilim can get these from their victims, too. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:38:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases > >>>I think that was with the assumption that either the Geas level would be > reduced if tested, or that the Will roll would be better for the Geasee.<<< > I still don't like it. Geases should be binding when the task is > announced-- they shouldn't be blank checks. If you put a Geas/6 on someone, I've got to agree with David on this; a Geas is a specific task to be fulfilled. It CAN be as broad as, "Serve this person for ___ time", if the Level is high enough, but it has to be something that the Geasee can either NOT do (and gain Dissonance/damage) or DO (and get it fulfilled and out of his karma)...neither of which applies to testing it without specifying anything. The whole, "I or my agent will come back and ask something of approximately the same level favor I did for you in return at some unspecified date in the future" is precisely what a NON-tested Geas is... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:56:22 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick > >What do people think is it to unbbalancing an extension of the ability to > >let the electrical body they create be transformed like other electrical > >signalss into radio waves or not? > > While it's probably no more unbalancing than the Kyrio teleport trick, I > don't think I'd allow it, given the way it's described (if I remember it > right) -- the Ofanite is essentially a bolt of lightning, not just a > signal pattern. > > The problem with my above comment is that a good part of the phone > system, CATV systems, etc. are now photonic rather than electrical in > nature, which requires a GM to make a ruling whether the path the Ofanim > wants to follow is actually a continuous electical circuit. Even > electical power lines aren't actually complete metallic circuits for > very far -- they go through transformers, which don't typically have a > conductive path between the two sides. Walter is on the money with this one. The attunement's main focus is the conductive aspects of the medium travelled through, NOT the communication aspect. A metal walkway, power lines, cable television lines (!), etc. Phone lines just happen to be convenient and prevalent. Due to the short range possible with the attunement, most ofanim won't have to worry too much about the satellite stuff. This could make a dramatic history for a Remnant Ofanim of Jean. During a great storm (at least partially caused by battling celestials), a lightning bolt strikes the lightning rod of a church (the angel becomes a remnant). The pastor who comes out find a badly burned man next to the church and cares for him. After the mysterious nameless man is healed, he decides to stay near the church and help out with chores. Except for his habit of running the lawn mower all over the place, he seems fairly normally, but a bit absent-minded. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:51:24 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? On Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:24:22 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: >> 3. Possessor's strength x (possessor's corporeal forces + host's Toughness) >> (matches the idea that Toughness is close to an added vessel level) > > I'm pretty much in favor of '3'. There is a caveat in that >there's some talk among the Gods to limit the stats a possessor >can bring into a Host. My vote was that it wasn't a huge problem, >even if a sparrow ends up with Strength/10. (They may be strong, >but leverage is awful! ;) ) Me, too, but I like that for negative body, too, with the addition that, unlike celestials, mortals deteriorate at negative body very rapidly. As to the limit on stats, I don't think we really need still another mechanic to further complicate matters. IAC, the difference between 10 and 12 strength is only 20%--not worth a rule IMHO. A more useful change would be to adjust shotgun stats. Negative accuracy from a weapon designed to make it easier to hit things??? I wonder if accuracy and power were accidentally reversed. Suppose you're trying to hit that sparrow: you're better off with an Uzi on auto than a shotgun? Changing shotgun stats would be a better way to down those pesky sparrows. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:45:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > their use and cost). I would say that the mortal's Forces are suppressed > during their possession, so it's the Kyriotate's Stats that take > precedence while the Kyrio is in charge. That's seemed generally clear to me as well, but I don't believe Kyriotate's do (or should) have Vessel Levels.. > This means also that the formula for a Kyrio's Body Points are the same as > everybody else's. In effect, yes, it means in a particular Vessel a Kyriotate has much lower potential Body Points. (And Shedim, for that matter). This strikes me as largely fair, given their reciprocal shot at avoiding Trauma (or even the inconvenience of GOING back to HQ, which even the Malakim have to put up with) when their Host dies...(they all get, what, Celestial Forces*10 minutes to find a new host? Except in fairly bizarre circumstances, that shouldn't be too hard...even if it means temporarily shacking up in a lizard under a rock...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:43:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels At 10:08 AM -0400 8/18/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Aug 16, 6:58am, Adam Canning wrote: >> One the other hand, 1 point vessels become very use ful for pulling the it >> doesn't matter who nasty you are you can only kill me once a round and thus >> it just costs 1 character point [Spent in advance but 5 or 6 spare vessels >> bought in advance and people are going to start wondering if you are Legion >> back with a new trick. > > You still have to worry about Trauma unless you have a _lot_ of >Body Bags. (BTW, do small vessels have Body Baggies? Is that with >or without the ziplock(tm) feature?) (Karakash, you are a sick, sick puppy.) And you don't have to use a Body Bag, do you? The statement reads, IIRC, "If you have another vessel to go to *right then*, you avoid trauma." Does this mean that if you change vessels *right then*, you can store the old one (in "mostly dead" state) and use the new one (in the same battle, with the same Big Ugly Opponent looming over you...)? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #301 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.