From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 21 04:35:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA32682 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 04:35:16 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08151 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:49:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:49:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199708201649.LAA08151@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #302 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 302 In this digest: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? IN> How do you Unsubscribe then? Re: IN> Zeal! Zeal! Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Re: IN> Lilim Geases IN> Superior Pronunciations Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #300 -Reply Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #301 -Reply IN> Lilim Geases IN> Lilim Geases IN> (Another) Q about Lilim IN> Words for Destiny IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Re: IN> Words for Destiny Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> (Another) Q about Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:15:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Walt Mazur wrote: > On Tue, 19 Aug 1997 01:13:30 -0400 (EDT), Thomas Davidson > wrote: > > >This is true: Mortals don't have a Vessel. But that doesn't mean that > >Kyriotatim/Shedim don't. They *do* have a Vessel level. > > Generally no. Some are allowed vessels but most aren't. IAC, they aren't in > a vessel when they're in a host. Night Music has made it very clear that > mortal bodies are not vessels, no how, no way. > Ooops. You're right: [IN p. 48] "Shedim and Kyriotates cannot create vessels at all..." Grrr! I *hate* being wrong.... :-) > >This means also that the formula for a Kyrio's Body Points are the same as > >everybody else's. > > When you don't have a vessel, what do you put in the Body formula in place > of vessel? We all know that the Kyrio/Shed/Possessor's Strength and > Corporeal Forces are used, but what is used for the Vessel number, since > even the ones which have or can have vessels are not in them when they're > in the host? > Hold on... [Jeopardy theme playing]... I'm back! I would say (as a GM ruling) that your third formula is correct: Kyrio Strength * (Kyrio Corp Forces + host's Toughness) which is the same formula as the one presented in NM. But that would be my ruling, and Mr. Karakash might have a different idea. Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:41:17 -0400 From: danamon@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: IN> How do you Unsubscribe then? > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 02:38:43 +0100 >From: Sam Kington >Subject: Turn vacation off, *please* (Was: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #297) > >Tony, > >You wrote: >> >> I'll be out of the office from August 15th through the 24th, back again on >> August 25th. If you have publishing business that can't wait until I return, >> please contact Cindy Achar. > >This went to the mailing list. Three times (one for digest #295, one for >#296, one for #297, and so on until you get back). > >When you go on holiday, unsubscribe from mailing lists, even digests. >*Especially* if you have a vacation program, or some other automatic >responder to all mail that comes in. > >Sam >- -- >There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. >Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ >INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati >Did gyre and gimble in the wabe So how do you unsubscribe? I have been trying for weeks and in various ways... Help Jon Compton Danamon@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:43:19 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Zeal! Zeal! At 01:56 PM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> I thought she found them under a cabbage leaf, and a stork brings >>>Jordi's. ;-) >>> >>No, you hear Jordi making new Servators at night in the alley.... >> >> ...That *would* make throwing that bucket of water a much riskier task. > >The real reason Jordi hates humans? > "Snip, snip." Hmmm.... I wonder how Jordi feels about spaying and neutering pets. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:21:40 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 At 11:16 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> > You still have to worry about Trauma unless you have a _lot_ of >Body Bags. (BTW, do small vessels have Body Baggies? Is that with >or without the ziplock(tm) feature?) >< > >Not if I'm a Malakim. > True. >Also Trauma only effects you if you have no vessels left [IN p 67] "If he >has another mortal body to go to right then, he cheats death. Otherwise he >suffers Trauma." > But those other Vessels don't exist unless they are in Body Bags. They aren't there until you create them. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:19:50 -0400 From: "Joel Mathis" Subject: Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony - ---------- > Earl Wajenberg Wrote: > In our game, if you *try* to alter the past while visiting there, > you are welcome to try, but you'll fail. The apparent bad luck > that prevents you we call "timelock." So, for instance, if you > travel back a week and take it into your head to call yourself on > the phone to tell your past self to avoid the terrible mistake that > resulted in your being chased back a week in the past ... you can > try, but you won't be able to find a working phone, or you'll dial > the wrong number, or your number will be busy, or SOMETHING. > > Having to maneuver around the established past in this way actually > makes the tactical situation of the game MORE interesting. It is > also fun to see players worry about whether a given piece of bad > luck was timelock or just bad luck. > > The massed logs of this campaign (which has been running, on and > off, for many years) are posted on the Web at > > http://www.ultranet.com/~brons/Tuesday/Pantope.html > This is basicly what I was talking about, however its too late. I thought about it too much. By brain exploded and I came up with a set of dramatic time travel rules for In Nomine so that if players wanted, they could play time travel like on TV or in the movies. Basically, anyone travelling in time causes a huge disturbance in the Symphony. The normal disturbance bonuses are doubled by someone who has traveled in time. Even normal humans or soldiers that travel through time cause a +20 disturbance in the Symphony by killing another human. Arriving or departing through time causes a +50 disturbance. The reason for such a huge ammount is by arriving or leaving, you change the mass of the universe and place or remove matter. Also merely being there, a time traveller is constantly emitting a +3 disturbance in the Symphony as the time traveller is screwing up partical movements, from sub-atomic to people. Directly changing history (GM's discression as to what actions the time traveller takes that causes the change) causes between +5 and +10 disturbance. A +5 disturbance would be something like hiding someone's car keys in the couch. A plus +10 point disturbance would be something like preventing JFK's assassination. Of course the effects are cumilitive, so a normal human going back in time, materializing on a rooftop in Nuremburg during a Nazi rally, and assassinating Adolf Hitler would cause a +83(!) disturbance there. (+50 for arriving, +3 for being there, +20 for killing a human, +10 for causing a major change in history.) There are two ways the GM could play the effects of changing history. First, the time traveller that changed history can immediately observe the effects such as his companions fade out of existance before his eyes. The second is anyone who has time traveled along the same relative time frame does not have any effects and can travel forward to the revised history. The GM should pick whichever is more interesting for his campaign. Joel Mathis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:47:11 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases On Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:02:09 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >*** Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the target should make the *** >*** Will roll *when the Need is fulfilled*, & if he fails it, then *** >*** the Lilim gets her Geas (tradeable, visible as Discord), and *** >*** if he makes the Will roll, she gets the dissonance. Get rid *** >*** of all this dratted nonsense about tested vs. untested. :-p *** I have to agree with the sentiment: this whole Geas business is getting to be a real can of worms. Vigorously avoiding the T word, it seems to me that a standard, discord-type Geas is "activated": it's a Geas for a specific task. The clock is running, and dissonance or strength is being drained. In the Lilim Game Mechanics: "If a she helps her victim, the Lilim may, at any time in the future, ask for something in return. The Check Digit of her original roll is the level of Geas she can inflict..." So until activation, it's not a Geas. Last in that Lilim section is, "Lilim may only impose geases on those whose needs they're attended to..." That says to me that only those Lilim who have satisfied the need can activate the Geas--trades are basically prohibited. However, that doesn't bar indirect trading. Take a free Lilim who has all those Geas/3's to Lilith. She acquires a nice Geas/6 on an angel who was about to get soul-killed. She's going to have trouble activating the Geas, and beside, she doesn't really have a use for him. But she figures Lilith does, so she invokes Lilith. The Geas/6 would be very useful to Lilith, so Lilith agrees to release two of her Geas/3's if the Lilim will invoke the Geas as Lilith instructs. Agreed. To help the Lilim activate the Geas/6, Lilith loans her a Song of Charm Relic, a couple body guards, and grants her a celestial force, with the understanding that if she fails, the force gets taken back. Now this isn't the free market, "Get your hot Geases here!" kind of scenario we've been talking about, but it does mute the problem of unbalancing Geas-getters like K.K., who haven't a hope of personally using the geases they get. A Lilim has to invoke her own geases; if she needs to make some kind of deal to survive the process, tough. One other point: it should probably be prohibited to Geas someone to invoke a Geas. Otherwise, Lilim would be infighting: doing a tiny Geas/1 for a sister so they can force them to invoke the big Geas/6 they have. Bad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:15:00 -0400 From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> Superior Pronunciations I've not yet actually run or played IN, so I haven't had to pronounce the Superiors' names aloud so far. However, here's what I use when reading/thinking about them. With some Superiors, I actually have a more Americanized, "lazy" pronunciation in most situations, and a "fancier" one when I think about how I'd actually pronounce them aloud. Here's what I go with (including the yet-to-be introduced Superiors that have been mentioned, and the retired/dead ones): LAZY FANCY BLANDINE: Blan-DEEN Blahn-DEEN CHRISTOPHER: Typical American pronunciation in both cases. DAVID: Typical American pronunciation in both cases. DOMINIC: The usual. ELI: EE-lie EE-lie GABRIEL: Typical American pronunciation in both cases. JEAN: ZHAHN Same, swallowing the final "n" JORDI: JOR-dee JOR-dee KHALID: Kah-LEED in both cases LAURENCE: LAWR-ence LAWR-ence (have considered "law-RAHNCE") LITHEROY: LITH-uh-roy in both cases (no idea if that's "right") MARC: Typical American pronunciation, sometimes swallowing the R a la French MICHAEL: Typical American pronunciation in both cases. NOVALIS: No-VAL-iss in both cases (a friend prefers NO-vuh-liss) RAPHAEL: RAH-fay-ell or RAH-fye-ell URIEL: YOUR-ee-ell YVES: EEV in both cases ZADKIEL: ZADD-kee-ell ZAHD-kee-ell ALAEMON: AL-uh-mon (have considered a-LAY-mun, but find the first easier to say) ANDREALPHUS: Ahn-dray-AL-fuss (or just AHN-dray) ASMODEUS: Az-mo-DAY-us (I can't *stand* "Az-MOE-dee-us") BAAL: BAY-uhl (as in Sunday School) BELETH: BEE-luth Something between BEH-luth and BAY-luth (Hmm, hadn't considered "b'-LETH" . . . until just now) BELIAL: BEE-lee-uhl or BAY-lee-uhl or BEEL-yul, as the mood strikes (Haven't tried "Buh-LYE-uhl" much, but I kinda like it) FLEURITY: FLOOR-ih-tee. Might try "Frenching it up," but rarely. FURFUR: Like "fur," said twice. How else? HAAGENTI: ha-GEN-tee (hard G). Or is it like "Haagen-Dasz" (groan)? KOBAL: KOH-ball in both cases KRONOS: KROH-nohs or KRON-ohs, as the mood strikes LEGION: American pronunciation ("LEE-jun") MAGOG: muh-GOGG or MAG-ogg MALPHAS: MAL-fuss MAMMON: MAM-un NYBBAS: NIB-uss SAMINGA: suh-MING-guh VALEFOR: VAL-uh-fore. Sometimes (rarely) VAL-uh-fer. VAPULA: VAP-yoo-luh And the Choirs and Bands: LAZY FANCY SERAPH (SERAPHIM): SAIR-uff(-im) SAIR-ahf(-eem) CHERUB (CHERUBIM): CHAIR-uhb(-im) CHAIR-oob(-eem) Sometimes I use a hard "k" sound in place of the "ch" OFANITE (OFANIM): OH-fuh-nite (-nim) Plural OH-fah-neem ELOHITE (ELOHIM): ELL-oh-hite (-him) Plural ELL-oh-heem MALAKITE (MALAKIM): MAL-uh-kite (-k'm) Plural MAL-uh-keem KYRIOTATE(S): KEER-ee-oh-tate(s). Never tried the more proper Latin (hangs head) MERCURIAN(S): mer-KYOOR-ee-uhn(s) GRIGORI: grih-GORE-ee BALSERAPH(S): BAL-sair-uff(s), "bal" rhyming with "gal." May try "bal-SAIR-uff" DJINN: Like "gin." CALABITE (CALABIM): CAL-uh-bite (-bim) Plural CAL-uh-beem HABBALITE (HABBALAH): HAB-buh-lite (hab-BALL-uh), in both cases LILIM: LIL-im (oddly, never tried lih-LEEM) SHEDITE (SHEDIM): SHED-ite (-im), never tried sh'DEEM IMPUDITE(S): IMP-yoo-dite(s) NEPHALLITE (NEPHALLIM): NEFF-uh-lite (NEFF-uh-leem), never used "-lim" for some reason Oddly, I've *never* put the accent on the last syllable of a Section's plural, even though that's probably more correct when the plural ends in -im. *And* the Principalities (Cathedrals tend to have English names): ABADDON: AB-uh-donn (not uh-BAD-uhn, even though it's a cute pun) GEHENNA: guh-HEN-uh HADES: HAY-deez SHAL-MARI: shall-MAH-ree (first syllable as in "I shall do it") SHEOL: SHEE-all (I really wish I knew the correct pronunciation for this) STYGIA: STIJ-ee-uh TARTARUS: TAR-tah-russ Well, those are mine. Wow, this was longer than I expected. Sorry, fellow digest recipients. Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:45:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick A > Walter is on the money with this one. The >attunement's main focus is the conductive aspects >of the medium travelled through, NOT the communication aspect. >A metal walkway, power lines, cable television lines (!), etc. >Phone lines just happen to be convenient and prevalent. Due >to the short range possible with the attunement, most ofanim won't >have to worry too much about the satellite stuff. > This could make a dramatic history for a Remnant Ofanim >of Jean. During a great storm (at least partially caused by >battling celestials), a lightning bolt strikes the lightning >rod of a church (the angel becomes a remnant). The pastor who >comes out find a badly burned man next to the church and cares >for him. After the mysterious nameless man is healed, he decides >to stay near the church and help out with chores. Except for his >habit of running the lawn mower all over the place, he seems >fairly normally, but a bit absent-minded. This is totally off topic but I've notcied something. It seems that only Angels are mentione becoming Remnants. Is this is rule or just a conicidence? What sick person put an "S" in lisp? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:36:27 -0400 From: Charles Badger Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick At 09:56 08/19/97 -0400, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> >What do people think is it to unbbalancing an extension of the ability to >> >let the electrical body they create be transformed like other electrical >> >signalss into radio waves or not? >> >> While it's probably no more unbalancing than the Kyrio teleport trick, I >> don't think I'd allow it, given the way it's described (if I remember it >> right) -- the Ofanite is essentially a bolt of lightning, not just a >> signal pattern. >> >> The problem with my above comment is that a good part of the phone >> system, CATV systems, etc. are now photonic rather than electrical in >> nature, which requires a GM to make a ruling whether the path the Ofanim >> wants to follow is actually a continuous electical circuit. Even >> electical power lines aren't actually complete metallic circuits for >> very far -- they go through transformers, which don't typically have a >> conductive path between the two sides. > > Walter is on the money with this one. The >attunement's main focus is the conductive aspects >of the medium travelled through, NOT the communication aspect. >A metal walkway, power lines, cable television lines (!), etc. >Phone lines just happen to be convenient and prevalent. Due >to the short range possible with the attunement, most ofanim won't >have to worry too much about the satellite stuff. > This could make a dramatic history for a Remnant Ofanim >of Jean. During a great storm (at least partially caused by >battling celestials), a lightning bolt strikes the lightning >rod of a church (the angel becomes a remnant). The pastor who >comes out find a badly burned man next to the church and cares >for him. After the mysterious nameless man is healed, he decides >to stay near the church and help out with chores. Except for his >habit of running the lawn mower all over the place, he seems >fairly normally, but a bit absent-minded. Or worse one. A remnant Ofanim of Jean that was tranfering over the phone lines when the two stations on either side went down hard. So both ends of the phone line were hung up. Now everyonce in a while someone making a call gets this wierd insane person answering the phone but if anyone would run a trace on where the call ended up it never connected with where you were trying to call. The OFanim is stuck permenantly in the phone lines no vessel. No celestial forces and stuck forever. - ----- Charles T. Badger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 01:16:20 -0400 From: Tony DeGeorge Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #300 -Reply I'll be out of the office from August 15th through the 24th, back again on August 25th. If you have publishing business that can't wait until I return, please contact Cindy Achar. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:44:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > I'm pretty much in favor of '3'. There is a caveat in that > there's some talk among the Gods to limit the stats a possessor > can bring into a Host. My vote was that it wasn't a huge problem, I certainly don't see it as a major problem..I can see where people might have qualms with, say, that Kyrio of Jordi animating a bazillion swarms of gnats, each with Strength/12...but enhanced strength is positively traditional throughout possession tales. (Besides, it works both ways - if a Kyrio with CorpF/2 and Str/3 possesses Arnie, they may LOOK tough, but they still only have Strength/3...) I WOULD be inclined, personally, to suggest that if they stay very long, it may burn out the host, especially using the Song... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:00:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 > >Also Trauma only effects you if you have no vessels left [IN p 67] "If he > >has another mortal body to go to right then, he cheats death. Otherwise he > >suffers Trauma." > > > But those other Vessels don't exist unless they are in Body Bags. They > aren't there until you create them. Sure they do, at least for practical intents and purposes. They're described (p49) as having only "potential" existance, but that's like saying since a boulder only has "potential" energy until it falls, you don't have to worry about it falling on you. I believe it just takes a point of essence to switch between Vessels, even in the midst of combat...though I would be inclined to suggest that to go to one AFTER losing all your Body Hits, you'd need the Bag...otherwise, the Bags seem kind of pointless. (Honestly, they strike me as kind of pointless anyway, especially given the rulings against Stupid Possession Tricks using them, but that's just me.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 02:25:09 -0400 From: Tony DeGeorge Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #301 -Reply I'll be out of the office from August 15th through the 24th, back again on August 25th. If you have publishing business that can't wait until I return, please contact Cindy Achar. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 03:17:36 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim Geases >>>All it really does is give the Lilim some more flexibility in who she can trade the Geas to, and when. In strict mechanics terms, it simply pre-rolls the Will roll for the victim -- whether he rolls now or later doesn't really make much difference to what the ultimate result is. The Lilim's presence can't affect the Will roll, either -- there are no modifiers there.<<< See above. Plot-wise, it makes a big difference. >>>Also, this *is* the way Lilith's Geases on Lilim work -- an unspecified future task. It seems reasonable that Lilim can get these from their victims, too.<<< Lilith is a Superior. The Lilim don't get to make a Will roll to resist their unspecified Geases, pre-tested or not. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 03:17:39 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim Geases >>>Exactly. Pre-testing it. Resistance is rolled right then. (And, I am thinking, that would use up some of the Geas' levels -- so if you "pre-test" a Geas/6 in that manner, you can only call in a Geas/5. Or maybe it just takes out half -- a Geas/2 or 3 becomes a Geas/1, a Geas/1 goes poof, a Geas/4 or 5 turns into a Geas/2, and a Geas/6 becomes a Geas/3.)<<< Don't like it. It contradicts the whole meaning of a Geas. Geases are obligations to perform a specific service. Any method of "pre-testing" Geases lends itself to all kinds of abuses. ("Level 4 Geas, do what I say at some unspecified point in the future" -- based on what constitutes a level 4 Geas at the time it was slapped on? The time it's called in? I slap you with a level 2 Geas, pre-test it down to level 1, have a bunch of other Lilim do the same thing, make some trades, bang! I have a pre-tested level 6 Geas, with a net effort far lower than what it would normally take to get such a Geas on someone. Go ahead, make up rules to counter these abuses, I can come up with more. >;)) >>>You lose levels of Geas that way. (And I don't mind pre-testing 'em -- if the guy makes his Will roll, they get dissonance. They're just choosing "sure thing, lower Geas/dissonance when I'm expecting it" or "higher Geas/chance of dissonance in a crunch when I can least afford it".)<<< They risk dissonance no matter when they test it. The advantages of having a pre-tested Geas are *enormous*. Without being able to pre-test, there is always an element of uncertainty with a Geas-- even a feeble-minded mortal could roll a Divine Intervention on his Will roll. Which means calling in a Geas in a crunch is always risky. Allowing them to pre-test Geases allows them to take away that uncertainty completely! You slap someone with a Geas, and either right then, or as soon as is convenient (i.e. when you can do so from a safe position, and at a time when you have no extra dissonance and are prepared to deal with the note you might get), you pre-test it, and it's locked on! If I were a Lilim, then barring high-level Geases on very powerful people-- the kind that I'd never be able to get again and would not want to reduce-- I'd *always* pre-test my Geases. So what if they're lower on the average? I can collect scads of level 1-3 Geases, and every single one of them is a *guaranteed* safe, dissonance-free, irresistable service! >>>Yes, it's perfectly valid to be able to say, "You can't trade Geases at all, except to Lilith herself." But that's no fun.<<< I'd say go with only Lilim taking dissonance from them....or only Lilim being able to resist them. >>>Hey, it's what the Lilim themselves are walking around with, and what they trade with people! Why is it any less fair to let them take the risk ahead of time and get that blank check?<<< No one else can do it. Part of the danger of dissonance is you never know just when it will whack you. Earning a note of dissonance when you have none is rarely a problem, especially if you're prepared for it. Earning a note of dissonance in the middle of a crisis after you've already racked up 2 or 3 is BAD. And it goes against the spirit of a Geas. Lilim are traders in favors, service for service. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:32:07 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> (Another) Q about Lilim I remember reading someone (John Karakash's?) idea for a Lilim who picked up geases by being a cordon blue chef, and although I thought it was a really neat character concept, it sparked off some questions in my mind. If a Lilim is performing a service for someone as part of their role/ job - does the salary not take care of any potential geases? I really don't think a Lilim should be able to pick up a geas just for performing their mortal role, unless they are doing some added extra that isn't in their job contract. (eg. If I employ a cordon bleu chef then I don't feel I owe them anything if they cook me a nice meal -- I am already paying them to do precisely that. If it is a stunningly nice meal then I might just give them a pay rise. As far as I am concerned, they are now entirely repaid for the original effort, as it wasn't a favour at all. It was their job.) For this reason I don't think that Lilim like to do 'honest jobs'; they want to be paid in geases, not in cash. A Lilim who has a role as a prostitute is already being paid for what she does, a Lilim who is a social worker is also covered by that. On the other hand I can imagine a Lilim in a role as a bartender doing the same thing as the social worker in return for geases and might get really annoyed if someone she sat and listened to one night comes back the next night with an expensive bunch of flowers and box of chocolates. She doesn't want presents, she wants her geas! In fact she must not accept the presents or any favours from the geased individual until she has claimed her geas, or its strength might be affected. I see Lilim as being the accountants of the demonic world, they are always very very aware of who owes what to whom and how much each small favour is worth. Its sort of similar to some of the stories about the fae and how they got enraged if people tried to thank them for favours, because they saw the thanks as being offered in place of a repayment. jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 05:57:37 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Words for Destiny >>I'm planning for my next session, and I'm suddenly in need of a good solid >NPC. But I cannot figure out good words for angels of destiny for the >life of me.< How about Redemption Foreshadowing Patience Circumstances Enthusiasm [Probably on lone from Eli] Philosophy Mascots The Eshaton Consumation [Also probably one of Eli's] Transubstantiation The Philosophers Stone [Eli again] Inspiration Scripture Benediction Unction Theology Poetry Contemplation Prognostication Portents Illumination [Ex Minion of Lucifers from before the fall.] Erudition Wisdom Prayer Proof reading. Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 05:57:25 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony From: Earl Wajenberg >One meaning of "eternal" is "timeless," i.e. standing outside of time. Angels, according to Thomist theology, are somewhere between time and eternity, so making them time-travelers is a very natural role-playing interpretation. Take IN and cross it with the "Dr. Who?" RPG, for instance, with a dash of GURPS Lensman. The Arisians and Edorreans are whole races of Soldiers of God and Hell, respectively, both eagerly recruiting from the Time Lords of Gallifrey, e.g. the Doctor and the Master respectively.< The Arisians and Eddorians behave a lot more like Celestials than soldiers. They run around with Forms of Flesh i.e. vessels [See Dr Bergholm, Nero andGray Rogers] Unholy Guns [See Gharlane try to Kill Dr Bergholm during one of the earlier books] recruit humans to achieve their ends and gift them with supernatural powers [Lensmen, Black Lensmen, certain others] and they are fighting a war over what is correct behaviour. GURPS Lensmen has some odd background rulings especially the there is no cyberware one. How does Haynes manage to keep people from noticing that he has lost all four limbs and replaced them with prosthetics? Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:44:53 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 On Aug 19, 11:16am, Adam Canning wrote: > Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 > Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > > You still have to worry about Trauma unless you have a _lot_ of > Body Bags. (BTW, do small vessels have Body Baggies? Is that with > or without the ziplock(tm) feature?) > < > > Not if I'm a Malakim. > > Also Trauma only effects you if you have no vessels left [IN p 67] "If he > has another mortal body to go to right then, he cheats death. Otherwise he > suffers Trauma." The only current way to have an immediately available body is with Body Bags (p.71). The description of the artifact makes it clear that it is necessary to have another of your vessels available to prevent Trauma. Getting another vessel ready involves an act of conscious will that a just-killed celestial (malakim, kyriotates and shedim notwithstanding) can't manage. Hence the artifact. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:22:16 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny On Aug 19, 4:29pm, Walter Milliken wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny > [johnk offers:] > > >Angel of Street Gangs > >Malakim Servitor of Destiny, Friend of the Sages > > Wouldn't this character make a *lot* more sense as a servitor of David > than Yves? After all, the description sounds a lot like the sorts of > things David's lot does.... Well, yeah. Whoops! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:27:43 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick On Aug 19, 11:16am, Adam Canning wrote: > Subject: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick > From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" > > Not unbalancing, per se, but probably outside the scope > of the Attunement. This is, however, probably not outside the > scope of _Jean's_ word, so allowing it as a 'higher level' version > of the Attunement wouldn't be out of the question. Maybe five > more points so that you can be a radio wave as well? > > < > > How about like this if you think it's too powerful. [This is how the > Ofanims who started the question believes his ability works anyway.] Not too powerful, it just doesn't fit. > > Servitor of Lightning Attunement > > Direct Dialing. > The angel can by making a telephone connection. Transmit his > corporeal vessel from the telephone he is holding to any other telephone, > modem or fax machine in existance. This will do 3 dice damage to any > obstructions if there is insufficient space for the Angels celestial form > to appear close to the exit device. This attunement ony costs 5 points to > Ofanim of Lightning. Cherubim of Lightning may use the telephone that they > can materialise with their choir attunment.. The problem with Servitor Attunements is that anyone can get them. What's the big fuss about being an Ofanim when you can reach out and touch someone for only 10 points? Notice that the Ofanim of Lightning Attunement specifically restricted the range. This particular attunement strikes me as far too cheap (or too powerful if you want to look at it that way). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:19:45 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases Looks like it's time to summarize (for me, at least!) There's no need to comment on these individually, since they have all been commented to death, previously! O=) 1) I don't like the idea of non-Lilim getting dissonance for a Geas 2) I especially don't like the 'last Lilim' getting dissonance for a failed Will roll (bookkeeping... bleck!) 3) The pre-test ideas sound okay, though a little hard to justify (I'd set the tested Geases at one level lower) 4) While I don't have a problem with the 'trusted servant' gambit, I understand how it can be munchkinized (or at least in common use among Lilim!) To keep Geases from being traded to trusted users rampantly, perhaps there can be a cost associated to trading with non-Lilim (one essence per level, perhaps). A hefty price just to make use of a Geas/2 or 3! (not to mention 5 or 6...) 5) Untested Geases don't count as Discord > *** Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the target should make the *** > *** Will roll *when the Need is fulfilled*, & if he fails it, then *** > *** the Lilim gets her Geas (tradeable, visible as Discord), and *** > *** if he makes the Will roll, she gets the dissonance. Get rid *** > *** of all this dratted nonsense about tested vs. untested. :-p *** This is an intriguing idea... I would say that the next time the Lilim meets the victim after the Need is fulfilled, they can try to make the Geas or lose the opportunity forever. This gives the Lilim a chance to 'pass up' a juicy possible Geas if they find out exactly how strong-willed their target is. Heck, you can still try to use Psychology to guilt them into doing their side of the bargain! I view the proximity as necessary since it _is_ an imposition of Will and needs to occur like any resonance that affects Will. Makes for better Roleplaying, as well. Witness the following example: (Will roll as soon as Need is fulfilled) The Lilim slid up behind the woman in the parking lot and non-chalantly thrust a sword through her torso. When the dying mortal slid off the blade, her body rolled over revealing a look of uncomprehending shock. "Sorry, sister, but business is business, y'know?" [Make will roll for cheating husband a thousand miles away. Either the Geas is established of the Lilim takes some Dissonance from out of the blue.] (Using regular Resonance rules) Moving quickly to avoid the hounds that would come baying after the source of the disturbance, the Lilim drove away. She picked up a cellular phone and called an unlisted number. A man picked up the phone. He sounded distracted, nervous. "Yes?" "It's done." [Make will roll here.] (Successful will roll) She doubled over with pain as the man resisted the Geas. "Who is this? What's done? Don't bother calling, this number is being cancelled!" The sound of the slamming receiver signaled the termination of the call. Scowling, she drove determinedly into the night. She would settle the score with this guy... in person. (Unsuccessful will roll) She smiled as she felt the shackles being formed. "Who is this? What's done? Don't bother calling, this number is being cancelled!" The sound of the slamming receiver signaled the termination of the call. Her merry laugh filled the cab of the car as threw her own phone onto the passenger seat. He could deny it all he liked, she _owned_ a little piece of his soul. > >And ESPECIALLY considering that an invoked Geas hangs out as > >Discord until its fulfilled, while the untested ones don't. (I think we're > >all agreed on that aspect, anyway.) > > That won't matter as much with humans, though if you're > concerned about Servitors of Judgment wandering around.... Yes, I agree as well. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:11:25 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> (Another) Q about Lilim > If a Lilim is performing a service for someone as part of their role/ > job - does the salary not take care of any potential geases? I really > don't > think a Lilim should be able to pick up a geas just for performing their > mortal role, unless they are doing some added extra that isn't in their > job contract. In general, I agree with you, but just the existance of the Role does not preclude getting a Geas as well. A Lilim with a Doctor role doesn't have an agreement with every person they meet on the street who might need medical attention. "Hey man, you look like you've been shot! Want some help?" On the other hand, as you say, if you working in a hospital, you have already been recompensed for your efforts when a patient shows up. > (eg. If I employ a cordon bleu chef then I don't feel I owe them > anything > if they cook me a nice meal -- I am already paying them to do precisely > that. If it is a stunningly nice meal then I might just give them a > pay rise. As far as I am concerned, they are now entirely repaid for > the original effort, as it wasn't a favour at all. It was their job.) That particular case has to do with the Lilim of Gluttony's specific attunement, not as a general matter of Roles/Geases. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #302 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.