From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 21 02:14:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27666 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 02:14:38 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03658 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:22:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:22:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199708210422.XAA03658@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #303 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 303 In this digest: Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Re: IN> Superior Pronunciations Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN> How do you Unsubscribe then? Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: Celestials and Computers (Re: IN> Humans and Skills) Re: IN> How do you Unsubscribe then? Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Remnants (Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick) IN> Chistopher Attunements Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Words for Destiny Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 Re: IN> Chistopher Attunements Re: IN> Fluff (Superiors' Appearance) Re: IN> Religious Patrons Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels Re: IN> Religious Patrons Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: IN> Fluff (Superiors' Appearance) Re: IN> Lilim Geases IN> Another word from our sponsor (7/9) Re: IN> Superior Pronunciations Re: IN> (Another) Q about Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:28:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> 4 dimensional Symphony Adam Canning wrote: "The Arisians and Eddorians behave a lot more like Celestials than soldiers." Yes, you could cast it either way. Perhaps Arisians and Eddorians could be introduced as a new choir/band pair of celestials. If anyone recalls the White and Black Guardians from the "Dr. Who?" series about the "Key of Time," these two are obvious candidates to re-cast as superiors, probably Yves and Kronos, or at least Word-bearing servitors of theirs. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Superior Pronunciations Stacy Stroud, by assembling a list of things to day, helps me immeasurably. :) More thoughts on pronunciation -- again, take as you will. No repeats, neither. "DAVID: Typical American pronunciation in both cases." Me, too. But occasionally I get tempted by the Hebrew dah-VEED. "URIEL: YOUR-ee-ell" I tend to drop the 'y' -- more like OOH-ree-ell. "KOBAL: KOH-ball in both cases" Really? Heard it as koh-BALL. "NYBBAS: NIB-uss" ...and nih-BAHS (or, when I'm feeling silly, NBC) "SAMINGA: suh-MING-guh" After seeing an alternate spelling in a text once, I throw in an apostrophe between the n and g: sah-MIN-ih-ga. "SERAPH (SERAPHIM): SAIR-uff(-im) SAIR-ahf(-eem)" ser-APH, SER-aff-im. "CHERUB (CHERUBIM): Sometimes I use a hard "k" sound in place of the "ch" Update that to 'always'. :) "BALSERAPH(S): "bal" rhyming with "gal." "bal" rhyming with "ball" or "gall". "SHEOL: SHEE-all (I really wish I knew the correct pronunciation for this)" It's Hebrew for graveyard, kinda like "shay-OHL" yours, using that Rite: Edit electronic text, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:46:58 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick > This is totally off topic but I've notcied something. It seems that only > Angels are mentione becoming Remnants. Is this is rule or just a conicidence? Mere coincidence. In fact, a demon Remnant was mentioned in a Pyramid article as being the creator of some 'cheesy' artifacts. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:10:26 -0500 (CDT) From: corey@cfanet.com Subject: Re: IN> How do you Unsubscribe then? At 09:41 PM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: > >> >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 02:38:43 +0100 >>From: Sam Kington >>Subject: Turn vacation off, *please* (Was: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #297) >> >>Tony, >> >>You wrote: >>> >>> I'll be out of the office from August 15th through the 24th, back again on >>> August 25th. If you have publishing business that can't wait until I >return, >>> please contact Cindy Achar. >> >>This went to the mailing list. Three times (one for digest #295, one for >>#296, one for #297, and so on until you get back). >> >>When you go on holiday, unsubscribe from mailing lists, even digests. >>*Especially* if you have a vacation program, or some other automatic >>responder to all mail that comes in. >> >>Sam >>- -- >>There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. >>Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ >>INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati >>Did gyre and gimble in the wabe > >So how do you unsubscribe? I have been trying for weeks and in various >ways... > >Help > >Jon Compton >Danamon@mindspring.com > I have felt the same way, and have been stuck in almost the same condition. I attempted to unsubscribe from this list before I left. I failed as well. -Pitifully Ignorant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:59:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases At 9:19 AM -0400 8/20/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Looks like it's time to summarize (for me, at least!) There's >no need to comment on these individually, since they have all been >commented to death, previously! O=) > >1) I don't like the idea of non-Lilim getting dissonance for a Geas >2) I especially don't like the 'last Lilim' getting dissonance for > a failed Will roll (bookkeeping... bleck!) >3) The pre-test ideas sound okay, though a little hard to justify > (I'd set the tested Geases at one level lower) >4) While I don't have a problem with the 'trusted servant' gambit, > I understand how it can be munchkinized (or at least in > common use among Lilim!) To keep Geases from being traded > to trusted users rampantly, perhaps there can be a cost > associated to trading with non-Lilim (one essence per > level, perhaps). A hefty price just to make use of a > Geas/2 or 3! (not to mention 5 or 6...) >5) Untested Geases don't count as Discord Sounds about right to me. Re: #3, what about using the levels of Geas to determine both how much of the geas goes poof, and what the Will penalty is? >> *** Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the target should make the *** >> *** Will roll *when the Need is fulfilled*, & if he fails it, then *** >> *** the Lilim gets her Geas (tradeable, visible as Discord), and *** >> *** if he makes the Will roll, she gets the dissonance. Get rid *** >> *** of all this dratted nonsense about tested vs. untested. :-p *** > > This is an intriguing idea... I would say that the next time >the Lilim meets the victim after the Need is fulfilled, they can >try to make the Geas or lose the opportunity forever. Ah, right, right, that's what I meant. When the Lilim notifies the target that his Need has been fulfilled, maybe? (I was assuming that the demonic modifiers to Resonance (p. 57; can't work via recorded media) were somewhat in effect.) The Lilim, in "gray" cases, will have to be able to tell that there's a potential, though -- in a case of a Need/6: "Needs to finish school," does it count if you get this kid a Seraph tutor and she does a GED or whatever those things are called? (*) The Lilim needs to know when she has her chance. (* This has been happening....) [...] > I view the proximity as necessary since it _is_ an imposition >of Will and needs to occur like any resonance that affects Will. >Makes for better Roleplaying, as well. Witness the following example: > >(Will roll as soon as Need is fulfilled) > The Lilim slid up behind the woman in the parking lot >and non-chalantly thrust a sword through her torso. When the >dying mortal slid off the blade, her body rolled over revealing >a look of uncomprehending shock. > "Sorry, sister, but business is business, y'know?" > [Make will roll for cheating husband a thousand miles >away. Either the Geas is established of the Lilim takes some >Dissonance from out of the blue.] Mmmm. I could see this, almost -- the resonance-sensed Need is fulfilled. The karmic ties move to bind... (This might make this Geas stuff more "risky," too.) But you're right -- it's much more fun to do the "You owe me" part. At 3:17 AM -0400 8/20/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Exactly. Pre-testing it. Resistance is rolled right then. (And, >I am thinking, that would use up some of the Geas' levels -- so if >you "pre-test" a Geas/6 in that manner, you can only call in a Geas/5. >Or maybe it just takes out half -- a Geas/2 or 3 becomes a Geas/1, >a Geas/1 goes poof, a Geas/4 or 5 turns into a Geas/2, and a Geas/6 >becomes a Geas/3.)<<< > >Don't like it. It contradicts the whole meaning of a Geas. Geases are >obligations to perform a specific service. Any method of "pre-testing" >Geases lends itself to all kinds of abuses. ("Level 4 Geas, do what I say >at some unspecified point in the future" -- based on what constitutes a >level 4 Geas at the time it was slapped on? The time it's called in? (Called in, of course. The "test" just makes it a standard Discord- Geas. Even a Lilim is free to ignore someone trying to invoke a Geas for "too much.") >I slap you with a level 2 Geas, pre-test it down to level 1, have >a bunch of other Lilim do the same thing, make some trades, bang! >I have a pre-tested level 6 Geas, with a net effort far lower than >what it would normally take to get such a Geas on someone. Go ahead, >make up rules to counter these abuses, I can come up with more. >;)) That's not an abuse, any more than doing several level-1 favors to get a Level/6 proto-Geas is an abuse. (Mind you, I think the way Geasa "add" is a bit wonky as well, so you could claim it's *inherently* abusive... But that's a different can of worms.) The other thing with that is that there's *more* risk of dissonance to pre-test Geas/2's! Unless this person has Will 2 or less, there's a chance he'll resist, and cause dissonance! (Even if he is only Will 1, he might yet spend Essence.) Your sisters probably aren't going to help with that, though you can be Little Miss Helpful yourself, of course. >>>>You lose levels of Geas that way. (And I don't mind pre-testing >'em -- if the guy makes his Will roll, they get dissonance. They're just >choosing "sure thing, lower Geas/dissonance when I'm expecting it" or >"higher Geas/chance of dissonance in a crunch when I can least afford >it".)<<< > >They risk dissonance no matter when they test it. The advantages of having >a pre-tested Geas are *enormous*. Without being able to pre-test, [...] > calling in a >Geas in a crunch is always risky. Allowing them to pre-test Geases allows >them to take away that uncertainty completely! Yup, any Geas that they've pre-tested is safe. Takes extra time, leaves Discord visible to some celestials, has a lower Geas-level -- but is safe to invoke. Why should Lilim be the only ones to have Geas-conflicts slamming down on them unexpectedly? (Though it's not going to be totally unexpected for the person Geased, actually; she had to come up and *say* "You Owe Me" to do the test. If anything, this gives some people a more sporting chance -- if they know about Lilim, they've got a great chance to deal with her right there, before she *really* asks them to do something. [Angel: "I...owe...you... MY SWORD THROUGH YOUR HEART!"]) >>>>Yes, it's perfectly valid to be able to say, "You can't trade Geases at >all, except to Lilith herself." But that's no fun.<<< > >I'd say go with only Lilim taking dissonance from them....or only Lilim >being able to resist them. Hrm? Resist them? Lost me, sorry. >>>>Hey, it's what the Lilim themselves are walking around with, >and what they trade with people! Why is it any less fair to >let them take the risk ahead of time and get that blank check?<<< > >No one else can do it. Part of the danger of dissonance is you never know >just when it will whack you. Earning a note of dissonance when you have >none is rarely a problem, especially if you're prepared for it. Earning a >note of dissonance in the middle of a crisis after you've already racked up >2 or 3 is BAD. > >And it goes against the spirit of a Geas. Lilim are traders in favors, >service for service. And that's what they're getting -- a "promise not to resist later," and the lower level of unspecified. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:28:49 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: Celestials and Computers (Re: IN> Humans and Skills) > > And, Mr. Karakash, I have a feeling my corp would argue with your opinion > of whose side you're on... (I'm interning with Siemens Business > Communication...) :) That's just how they recruit Soldiers of Hell over there... flee while you can! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:43:28 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> How do you Unsubscribe then? Quoted, in part, from the subscription message ============================================== Welcome to the in_nomine-l mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the following command in email to : unsubscribe Or you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe in_nomine-l - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:35:09 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > A more useful change would be to adjust shotgun stats. Negative accuracy > from a weapon designed to make it easier to hit things??? I wonder if > accuracy and power were accidentally reversed. Suppose you're trying to hit > that sparrow: you're better off with an Uzi on auto than a shotgun? > Changing shotgun stats would be a better way to down those pesky sparrows. I agree! Someone flubbed up bad on that chart, IMO. Here's how I would handle shotguns: Power +6, Acc +1. Power is reduced by two for each range increment, but the accuracy penalty is halved (round down) for each range increment. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:29:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Remnants (Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick) At 10:45 PM -0400 8/19/97, Kim Foster wrote: >This is totally off topic but I've notcied something. It seems that only >Angels are mentione becoming Remnants. Is this is rule or just a conicidence? Coincidence. Demons turn into Remnants just the same, as far as I know. (Heh. This nice, slightly pathetic Remnant that the angels are gritting their teeth and trying to help... turns out to have been a Servitor of, oh, Lust. Or the Game. Or Nybbas...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 14:10:47 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> Chistopher Attunements Hi, folks!! I was kinda busy, and it's kept me away from the list... but I'm back with a request: I still could not put my hands on NM (I live in Brasil, you see...), but I got a new player who wants to be a real guardian angel - more, a child's guardian angel. So we both agreed that Chris would be perfect as his AA. But I don't know anything about him, apart he's the Archangel of Children. Could someone pass me at least his Dissonances, Choir & Servitors Attunements and Rites?? Any other information on him would be useful also... Thanx all!! Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:49:57 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 On Aug 20, 12:00am, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 > > >Also Trauma only effects you if you have no vessels left [IN p 67] "If he > > >has another mortal body to go to right then, he cheats death. Otherwise he > > >suffers Trauma." > > > > > But those other Vessels don't exist unless they are in Body Bags. They > > aren't there until you create them. > Sure they do, at least for practical intents and purposes. > They're described (p49) as having only "potential" existance, but that's > like saying since a boulder only has "potential" energy until it falls, > you don't have to worry about it falling on you. I believe it just takes > a point of essence to switch between Vessels, even in the midst of > combat...though I would be inclined to suggest that to go to one AFTER > losing all your Body Hits, you'd need the Bag...otherwise, the Bags seem > kind of pointless. (Honestly, they strike me as kind of pointless anyway, > especially given the rulings against Stupid Possession Tricks using them, > but that's just me.) Those other vessels are not immediately available, though. Someone who has just been whacked does not have the presence of mind to do _anything_, much less something as complicated as bringing a new vessel into existence. That's why the Body Bags exist at all! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels > > Any reason for five, or is that just pulled from thin air? > > Quint=five. ;) Prick. Anybody care to lend me a Clue-by-Four so I can smack John for the really well hidden pun? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I have returned from Pennsic - sorry for the delay in replies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:06:42 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases > That's not an abuse, any more than doing several level-1 favors to > get a Level/6 proto-Geas is an abuse. (Mind you, I think the way > Geasa "add" is a bit wonky as well, so you could claim it's > *inherently* abusive... But that's a different can of worms.) I think it's wonky, too - six little favors (like buying somebody dinner) in exchange for killing somebody? No. I'd say that to form a geas from smaller geas, you need x geas of the next level, where x is the level of the new geas. So a level 2 geas takes two level 1 geasa, and a level 6 geas takes six level 5 geasa. You may also want to limit the amount of times a geas can be increased - even 720 meals won't equal killing somebody. Say that a geas cannot be included in any geas more than two levels higher. So level one geasa could only be made level 3, and it would take level 3 geasa or higher to make a level 6. Comments/abuse? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:57:16 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases > 1) I don't like the idea of non-Lilim getting dissonance for a Geas What about some other problem, such as soul hits? > 2) I especially don't like the 'last Lilim' getting dissonance for > a failed Will roll (bookkeeping... bleck!) I agree. > 3) The pre-test ideas sound okay, though a little hard to justify > (I'd set the tested Geases at one level lower) It also cheats the geased - what if they don't like what you later ask them? Normally they could blow essence to resist better. > 4) While I don't have a problem with the 'trusted servant' gambit, > I understand how it can be munchkinized (or at least in > common use among Lilim!) To keep Geases from being traded > to trusted users rampantly, perhaps there can be a cost > associated to trading with non-Lilim (one essence per > level, perhaps). A hefty price just to make use of a > Geas/2 or 3! (not to mention 5 or 6...) I like this idea a lot. A whole lot. Why not make it so that *any* traded geas must first be "tokened"? The lilim pays x essence to change the geas into a token (ala the one in the story that sparked this thread), which can then be passed freely. The geas works like normal - the geased person will recognize that they owe the holder of the token. If it is resisted, it causes soul hits instead of dissonance, of an amount equal the the CD of the will roll. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:19 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Words for Destiny >Which Word would Catbert serve? ;) Management Sadism.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:16 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases >Oh, I don't know -- using "part" of the Geas up to "test" it sounds >like a notion. Maybe you can use as much of the Geas as you want, >and *that's* the penalty to the Will-roll, but those parts go poof? No, I think the Will roll should be determined by the favor level -- it's not necessary for balance to do it the other way, I think, and it adds complexity to split things. Just reducing the Geas level by one is enough game balance. Also, I can't think of a good explanation for why it should work that way -- it makes more sense that the "hook" is as strong as the favor. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:43 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 > The only current way to have an immediately available body >is with Body Bags (p.71). The description of the artifact makes >it clear that it is necessary to have another of your vessels >available to prevent Trauma. Getting another vessel ready >involves an act of conscious will that a just-killed celestial >(malakim, kyriotates and shedim notwithstanding) can't manage. >Hence the artifact. Huh? I think there was a ruling (from Moriah or Derek?) a long time back that said that you *could* switch to another vessel after being killed (i.e., as a dying action). The drawback being that your new vessel is right where the old one got toasted. The main advantage of a Body Bag is that the new vessel *isn't* in the line of fire. Or so I recall.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:24 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick >Servitor of Lightning Attunement > >Direct Dialing. > The angel can by making a telephone connection. Transmit his >corporeal vessel from the telephone he is holding to any other telephone, >modem or fax machine in existance. This will do 3 dice damage to any >obstructions if there is insufficient space for the Angels celestial form >to appear close to the exit device. This last doesn't make sense -- celestial forms *can't* be space-constrained by normal matter, since they can move through them. Or did you mean corporeal form here? It would make more sense, given the first sentence. > This attunement ony costs 5 points to >Ofanim of Lightning. Cherubim of Lightning may use the telephone that they >can materialise with their choir attunment.. It could work, though I think it makes things a bit too easy for the Lightning crowd. You might want to limit carried items to what can be taken with a celestial form, or be even more restrictive (nothing but clothing and small pocket items). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:45:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 At 9:49 AM -0400 8/20/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Aug 20, 12:00am, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #299 [...] > Those other vessels are not immediately available, though. >Someone who has just been whacked does not have the presence of >mind to do _anything_, much less something as complicated as >bringing a new vessel into existence. That's why the Body Bags >exist at all! Oh, I don't know -- even if you could swap right after your first body got whacked, there are still advantages to waking up somewhere *BESIDES* right in front of the person who just toasted your first vessel and is probably quite willing to trash this one as well... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:44:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Chistopher Attunements At 2:10 PM -0300 8/20/97, Andre Ribeiro wrote: > Hi, folks!! > I was kinda busy, and it's kept me away from the list... but I'm >back with a request: I still could not put my hands on NM (I live in >Brasil, you see...), but I got a new player who wants to be a real >guardian angel - more, a child's guardian angel. So we both agreed that >Chris would be perfect as his AA. > But I don't know anything about him, apart he's the Archangel of >Children. Could someone pass me at least his Dissonances, Choir & >Servitors Attunements and Rites?? Hrm... You *are* going to buy Night Music when it shows up, RIGHT? Christopher: Cherub, former servitor of David. Dissonant to be patronizing to kids, or to harm them. Seraphim and Malakim get auto-success of resonance on kids; Cherubim can invoke the effects of the Ethereal Song of Form while they're watching over their attuned kid; Ofanim get a bonus to their resonance when around kids; Elohim of Christopher are kid-only Lilim! (without the Geas-half -- they get Essence instead); Mercurians can spot problems with their resonance (bullies, abuse, etc.). Servitor Attunements: Memories of Youth -- make people cheerful, using Essence. Luck -- once per session, can re-roll a d666 roll, *EXCEPT* Interventions. Take the best roll, or an Intervention (if you get one). Rites: 4 hrs resting in toystore; 2 hrs playing with kids. Now, with luck, that's enough to do up the character, but not enough to be infringing on copyright. You *will* buy the book, though, right? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:25:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Fluff (Superiors' Appearance) On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 4:43 PM -0500 8/19/97, Shadowcat wrote: > >On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> Not necessarily, you know -- there's smut and there's smut. Eli > >> likes caring smut, at least in our games. The XXXenophile > >> Card Game, for instance... And the comics, of course. > > > > Does Eli ever appear as "Le Petit Morte?" ;-) Sorry, I just spent > >last night organizing all my spare XXXenophile cards. > > "That...that form! That robe! WHO COULD IT BE!" > > (Secret Reason Dominic is bent on persecuting the Archangel > of Creation...) ROTFL. I hadn't even thought of that. And Pele from "XXXenophile Presents #1" is Gabriel when she get a little "Hot and bothered" ;-) Shadowcat &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& "Courage Mon ami el Diable est morte." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Religious Patrons > Oh, BTW, what about Vodoun ("Voodoo")? Are the Loa pagan gods or > manifestations of Archangels? Vodoun has become so mixed up with > Catholicism that it's hard to tell the difference. I will be doing a writeup of Vodoun as soon as Marches reaches me. If it doesn't get into Pyramid, it will get on the net. They look like Ethereal Spirits that allied themselves with Heaven or Hell during Uriel's purge. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Vessels > You still have to worry about Trauma unless you have a _lot_ of > Body Bags. (BTW, do small vessels have Body Baggies? Is that with > or without the ziplock(tm) feature?) Man, that's a cute demon trick - have a hamster vessel in a Body Baggie. When your current vessel gets axed, wake up as the hamster, get out of the baggie, change to another vessel, and put the hamster back in the baggie. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I have returned from Pennsic - sorry for the delay in replies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Religious Patrons > >Any other ideas?< > > Gabriel was, if I remember correctly, the angel that supposedly dictated > the book of Mormon to Joseph Smith Junior and thus started the Mormons. I think she gets the role of "Celestial mouth" a lot. > As for Voodo > One could map the Archangels and demon princes onto the Loa's > without loosing too much of their feel . Being a Horse of course > is our friends the Shedim and Kyriotates. I am doing a writeup of Voodoo loa for In Nomine as soon as the Marches comes out. If it isn't accepted by Pyramid, I'll post it to the net. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A silly Ofanim of Jean Trick > It may actually be easiest to ignore that whole mess and say the Ofanite > is transformed into a high-energy information pattern, not specifically > electrical. I fear that may lead to other problems, though -- consider > the case of an Ofanite who enters the transmitter of a radio broadcast > station; he could conceivably emerge at the radio of *anyone* listening > to the station. This notion bothers me.... Why? He can only have one body at once, and the same effect (albeit costlier) can be had from Celestial Motion. If you really find it unbalancing, say that he is sent to one radio at random - if he doesn't like where he is, he can spend a turn "fighting his way upstream" and try another. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I have returned from Pennsic - sorry for the delay in replies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:42:57 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? On Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:35:09 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: >> A more useful change would be to adjust shotgun stats. Negative accuracy >> from a weapon designed to make it easier to hit things??? I wonder if >> accuracy and power were accidentally reversed. Suppose you're trying to hit >> that sparrow: you're better off with an Uzi on auto than a shotgun? >> Changing shotgun stats would be a better way to down those pesky sparrows. > > I agree! Someone flubbed up bad on that chart, IMO. Here's >how I would handle shotguns: > Power +6, Acc +1. Power is reduced by two for each range >increment, but the accuracy penalty is halved (round down) for >each range increment. Is that really enough of a change, though? I was serious about reversing the stats: Power -1; Acc +6. Since the Acc will probably translate into a check digit plus at short range, I think that make them reasonably lethal at short range. At long range, power -1 is appropriate for a sawed off shotgun, but you're still very likely to wing the birdie with some of the shot. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Fluff (Superiors' Appearance) > > I'm also planning on having Yves meet one of the PCs in a Blockbuster > > Video. At one point, he'll see two men in the adult video section, > > nonchalantly pick out a video, and hand it to one of the men. Take my > > word for it, the scene takes on a rather surreal turn after that... > > > > Hmm.... I wonder--what do you have in mind? How can it get any more > surreal than Yves giving a couple of men an adult video? I mean, the > tapes he's giving them are tools of Andrealphus... Not necessarily. Not having seen many pornos, I couldn't name a movie, but something along the lines of Lady Chatterly's Lover, Silent Came the Stranger, or other well written smut might be very good for the soul. Andy deals with stuff like Dolly Does Dallas. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I have returned from Pennsic - sorry for the delay in replies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:47:43 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases > >I still don't like it. Geases should be binding when the task is > >announced-- they shouldn't be blank checks. If you put a Geas/6 on someone, > >and turn it into an unspecified, pre-tested Geas/4, that's still a pretty > >powerful effect! > > Hey, it's what the Lilim themselves are walking around with, > and what they trade with people! Why is it any less fair to > let them take the risk ahead of time and get that blank check? Because testing a Geas doesn't take into effect environmental factors. What if the eventual Geas is one that is fit for the level, but which the geased character would, for some reason, be better able to resist. For example, a geas high enough to get somebody to kill a person, that was invoked to have them kill their lover. Even if the GM ruled that that would increase the level required, it also misses one more thing - the character's essence expendature. A character isn't likely to blow all their essence to resist a "you owe me" (at least, not the first time), but will blow it for a "kill your wife". Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:34:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Another word from our sponsor (7/9) While those of us who don't get the list in our inboxes wait for IO's (and SJGames') webserver to come back up, here's another word from our sponsor. Margali here again for Motel 666, and there's no mistaking *our* sign along life's highway. I mean, it sort of says it all. Why say any more? We may not put your name out on our sign, but don't worry -- [pats large book] -- I'm sure we have you in *here* somewhere. I'm Margali for Motel 666, and we'll leave the goat on for you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:55:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Superior Pronunciations On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Stacy Stroud wrote: [Explanation and some superiers sniped] > JEAN: ZHAHN Same, swallowing the final "n" I pronounce this one Gene little simple but hey. > LITHEROY: LITH-uh-roy in both cases (no idea if that's "right") Lith-roy (I thought the E was silent) > MICHAEL: Typical American pronunciation in both cases. I have heard this as both [my-KULL] and {ME-kell} > NOVALIS: No-VAL-iss in both cases (a friend prefers NO-vuh-liss) No-VAHL-us But that could just be me. > YVES: EEV in both cases IVES (rymes with Dives) > BAAL: BAY-uhl (as in Sunday School) I had a preacher who said BALL, but that may be a Hoosier thing > BELIAL: BEE-lee-uhl or BAY-lee-uhl or BEEL-yul, as the > mood strikes (Haven't tried "Buh-LYE-uhl" much, > but I kinda like it) Same Preacher: Bell- EYE-ull > MAGOG: muh-GOGG or MAG-ogg I go with the Gealic: MAY-gog > CHERUB (CHERUBIM): CHAIR-uhb(-im) CHAIR-oob(-eem) > Sometimes I use a hard "k" sound in place of the "ch" The hard K makes them sound like an artifical chocolate candy ;-) > BALSERAPH(S): BAL-sair-uff(s), "bal" rhyming with "gal." May try > "bal-SAIR-uff" BELL-sur-af > LILIM: LIL-im (oddly, never tried lih-LEEM) LIL-um > SHEDITE (SHEDIM): SHED-ite (-im), never tried sh'DEEM she-Dite Mainly a difference in where to break > NEPHALLITE (NEPHALLIM): NEFF-uh-lite (NEFF-uh-leem), never used "-lim" for > some reason NEFF-uh-lum Aside from these few differences, this sounds about like how I have heard them. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:25:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> (Another) Q about Lilim At 10:32 AM +0100 8/20/97, Hart, Joanna wrote: >I remember reading someone (John Karakash's?) idea for a Lilim who >picked up geases by being a cordon blue chef, and although I thought it >was a really neat character concept, it sparked off some questions in my >mind. > >If a Lilim is performing a service for someone as part of their role/ >job - does the salary not take care of any potential geases? I really >don't >think a Lilim should be able to pick up a geas just for performing their >mortal role, unless they are doing some added extra that isn't in their >job contract. If there was a Need sensed, then I'd say the Lilim can pick up a Geas. Of course, they don't sense needs automatically (one can always fail that Perception roll), and some Needs are too small to rate even a Geas/1. (If you're a waitress, you don't get anything for spotting they want their check now -- except maybe a good tip.) If you're a chef, and you cook something great, then you probably haven't *really* gotten a Need-Geas link (unless you have the Lilim of Haagenti attunement). On the other hand, if you use your resonance and detect that the person wants some particular little "extra" on their dish -- providing that *might* get you a Geas/1. If you give it "compliments of the house," then you're more likely to get a Geas-hold in return... Or so I'd say. [...] >I see Lilim as being the accountants of the demonic world, they are >always very very aware of who owes what to whom and how much each small >favour is worth. Definitely. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #303 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.