From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Aug 24 23:32:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28725 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:32:47 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA26855 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:11:50 -0500 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:11:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199708250211.VAA26855@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #310 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, August 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 310 In this digest: IN> night music question.... Re: IN> Ofanim Re: IN> noise in the symphony Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con IN> A question of essence Re: IN> Kyriosity Killed the Kat IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #309 -Reply IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... IN> Motel 666 (8/9) IN> Lilim and geases IN> Character idea: Rolemaker Re: IN> A question of essence Re: IN> A question of essence IN> Tilimok vs. Jordi Re: IN> Kyriosity Killed the Kat Re: IN> Asmodeus's Humanity Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? [none] Re: IN> A question of essence IN> night music question... Re: IN> Word Bound Celestials IN> Stuck in corporeal form? IN> Starting out with discord IN> Lilim Geases IN> Lilim Rules Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 20:47:27 -0400 (EDT) From: NemesisXVI@aol.com Subject: IN> night music question.... Pertaining to the Night Music supplement: What are the opinions of Litheroy and Alaemon regarding the Austin situation and Furfur? please e-mail me at: Nemesisxvi@aol.com Thanx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 20:53:01 -0500 From: Colin Fredericks Subject: Re: IN> Ofanim Adam Canning wrote: > As I saw the Telephone thing it was only Phone to Phone [and you had to get through on the number first.] which brings it down to no worse than teleporting to a plant. It is also one of the few tricks the celestials in Good omens get up to that thre is't a good match to in IN. However I'm not sure whether I think the Cherub of Lightning attunemet would make it seriously unbalanced.Even if in normal use one might get stuck in a voice mail system.< The Good Omens phone trick (where Crowley traps his persuer in the answering machine) is something I see as more of a different Vessel. Crowley, in game terms, would have an electron for a vessel. While IN distinctly forbids this, it would still be a great campaign to run using IN rules plus the abilities and background of Crowley and Aziraphale. In game terms, it looks like Ophanites can temporarily change their Vessel into a whole lot of energy at once, but only short duration. As a note to the "official people" who read this list, it might be a good idea, if you ever release a second edition of the main book, to clearly state somewhere what is and isn't available as a standard vessel. Right now there's just a lot of exclusions, listed under the choir and band attunements for various Superiors. Stay Cool; -Sir Colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 19:24:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> noise in the symphony > On Aug 21, 7:23pm, Alex Helm wrote: > > If a human is saved from harm or a natural death eg rescueing a mortal from > > the path of an on rushing truck does this cause a disturbance in the > > symphony? if so how much? And Karakash replied simply; > None. Of curiosity..why not? Logically, keeping something IN that should have just gone away should cause MORE noise than taking something out before its time... Or, granting that the mortal's Forces haven't just been dumped back into the mix, which I gather is a good chunk of the disturbance, things they DO for a while after their rescue ought to be disturbance-prone. (Be an interesting trick, actually - when some Angels (or Demons) are planning to do something somewhat noisy, they first save a bus full of people and let them make some noise to cover it up...though the average person isn't likely to be doing any of the REALLY loud things, like killing people.) At the very least, I think someone so rescued should be somewhat `out of tune' for a while. (This might explain the detached feeling people tend to get after close brushes with death..) Unable to spend or regain Essence for a few days until they get back into the rhythm of things, as it were.. (Which I'd consider to be on a similar scale to my feeling that if a demon, say, leaves a banana peel (one bet who his Superior is) on a narrow walkway with a long plummet, it'll cause disturbance if someone slips and falls and dies right away..but not if a little time passes, as the Symphony naturally adjusts to the new location of the peel.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 22:06:53 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >P.S. Archbeth just hoe many list folk DO owe you Geasa?? > > I dunno. At least 3-4, I'd say. > I stopped paying as much attention to those when I went Bright. > O;> That's just folks on the *list* .... };p .j. bcnu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 11:55:07 +1000 From: ehp Subject: IN> A question of essence Here is a fairly silly question, but I am actually interrested in hearing the answers, so here goes. It is inspired by the movie gremlins 2. So, and angel gets essence back at dawn. What is to stop an angel catching a plane for half an hour and seeing the dawn again several hundred miles to the west, and thus regain more essence? Or, to take the more borderline (not so much munchkin) question... What about arround the world in 80 days? How many essence would Mr Fogg have build up if he were an angel? He did the trip in 81 days, and 80 days at the same time, dependant upon your point of view (and the length of the day). Suppose an angel and a demon are on a world crossing quest. The angel travels east arround the globe, crossing the planet in what is for him 9 days. He crosses the date line, so one of the days becomes the next day in terms of human day counting, so arrives 10 stationary days later, but only 9 essence richer. The Demon goes west. The same trip took him 11 days, but the same time. As he crosses the date line it becomes the day before, and he arrives, 11 essence richer, ten stationary days after starting. And proceeds to blow the angel to kingdom come with his extra essence. How does one resolve this little problem? Does the date line absorb and distribute essence too? I have a picture in my mind of all these angels hanging arround the pacific, jumping across the date line to get the extra essence, singing songs to get rid of their essence, jumping back when they are on zero and doing it again... Would explain those weird storms that blow arround the pacific some times. ;) Enough silliness. Related question: When do angels and demons regain their essence if they are above/below the arctic/antarctic circle? Or close, for that matter. All the best, Evan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 22:21:40 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriosity Killed the Kat > Since Jason asked the question, I've been TRYING to see them that > way, and I keep running into the problem that the Kyriotates -DON'T- > sample multiple perspectives. They drive the Host's mind out completely > and remain entirely themselves, just in a different body... Example from the mind of Nybbas: think of a Kyriotate like Sam Beckett in "Quantum Leap." He inhabits a body belonging to a host who is driven out (and into the future body of Dr. Beckett). He then*samples the perspective* of that person by living their life for a little while. Kyriotates are the same way. They *have* to understand many perspectives to fool their various host's friends, relatives, coworkers and complete strangers. > so the Kyrio > can, to pick up your example, inhabit people on both sides of an > argument...but to what end? Admittedly, this seems more like a kyriotate party trick... > They don't actually gain the PERSPECTIVE on > both sides of the argument any better than..well, than anyone can just by > trying to think about it both ways. ...as above, if it argued about it over a period of days, it'd get the perspective of both host through their lives... .j. bcnu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 22:43:22 -0400 From: Tony DeGeorge Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #309 -Reply I'll be out of the office from August 15th through the 24th, back again on August 25th. If you have publishing business that can't wait until I return, please contact Cindy Achar. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 22:34:41 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Whew! Just glad to be Ofanim, with a fairly straitforward resonance.... .j. bcnu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 21:27:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Motel 666 (8/9) [Okay, so the Web servers *weren't* impaired, just AOL's ability to connect to them...but anyway, here's a break from Tony DeWossname's reminders that he's on vacation.] Margali here for Motel 666, thanking all you folks who've made us your *final* resting place. Remember, when you've no place left to turn, there we are. And if you don't have reservations -- you *should.* I'm Margali for Motel 666, and we'll leave the goat on. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 20:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: IN> Lilim and geases The more I hear people talk about, the more complicated it becomes, and IN really isn't supposed to be a rule-complex game. (I get more than enough of that via Star Fleet Battles.) So, my take on it: 1) Lilim are the only ones who can _create_ a Geas (well, excepting Superiors and other oddball stuff like that). 2) They can't create a Geas unless the person has consented to their aid. (The old "deal with the devil") bit. You can always do something and then try to guilt-trip the person into doing you something in return, but you can't create a Geas on someone unless _they_ asked _you_ for help. This doesn't have to be a deal signed in blood, of course; it could be something as simple as "Hmm... sounds like you're in trouble. Want some help with X?" "Yeah, sure." But consent/permission is part of the deal. The victim, of course, doesn't know that the Geas is around, until you show back up and say something like "Y'know, I did a favor for you. Can you do one back?" 4) No such thing as "testing": you can create the Geas, but there's no way of knowing how successful it will be unless somebody actually tries to invoke it. You have a lien on their soul, but maybe they know a good lawyer, or God is looking out for them, or they're just incredibly strong-willed that day. 5) If they agree to do whatever-it-is, then the Geas binds them to do so, and they don't (barring exceptional circumstances like direct divine intervention) get any roll to resist it: they agreed, after all. (One might create exceptions at the point when they realize what they've actually gotten into it, but those should be very rare.) The Geas goes away once the job is done; meanwhile, it keeps them doing it. 6) If somebody resists, they get a Will roll; if they fail it, then the Geas locks and they're forced to do it. If they successfully resist, then the Geas goes "poof" and the invoker gets the backlash. 7) I would suggest that dissonance for a refused or broken Geas affects the person who invoked the Geas, _whoever_ they are. The potential for backlash is part of the Geas as created, and can't be separated from it. Invoke the Geas, and you risk getting hammered if things go wrong. That's the price of getting a Will-reducer--it might blow up in your face. 8) Trading Geases -- that's probably something that a GM would have to rule on for his campaign. I'd probably allow it (just because K.K. is such a fun character), with a couple of points noted: a) Only the Lilim who created the Geases can combine them. (If you're feeling more broad-minded, maybe "only Lilim but nobody else can combine Geases"). This keeps part of the mystique of Geases in Lilim hands. b) Maybe a +1 or +2 Will bonus should be given to someone resisting a Geas that isn't invoked by its creator, if you think that trading them freely is too powerful. How's that sound? Tony Z ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 23:55:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: IN> Character idea: Rolemaker Just a brief idea, inspired by Karakesh's excellent post on how Roles are made. How about a character who takes the Role the 'long way' and, upon growing up, gets a job in the local government whereby he has the capability to manufacture Roles for other Celestials? Someone who can assign SSNs and birth certificates, for example... Or have them work for the Federal Witness Relocation Program, where not only can a person be created on paper from scratch, but also could be used to protect Soldiers and their families. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:18:24 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> A question of essence At 11:55 AM 8/24/97 +1000, ehp wrote: > Here is a fairly silly question, but I am actually interrested in >hearing the answers, so here goes. It is inspired by the movie gremlins 2. > So, and angel gets essence back at dawn. What is to stop an angel >catching a plane for half an hour and seeing the dawn again several hundred >miles to the west, and thus regain more essence? Angels who gain more than 1 essence in a 24 hour period, discounting any gained through reliquaries, superiors and rites, explode and are never seen again. Speaks There are few situations in life that cannot be resolved promptly, and to the satisfaction of all concerned, by either suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night. -- Ernest Bramah (Kai Lung stories) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:22:20 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> A question of essence > Related question: > When do angels and demons regain their essence if they are >above/below the arctic/antarctic circle? Or close, for that matter. > >All the best, >Evan Actually for all of the above, here is my multi-part answer. I'll elaborate for other angels later. Most angels and demons for that matter, are stationed in a general area. Whereever the angel happens to be around the planet, "dawn" for essence purposes, is the dawntimeof its station point. For wanderers like Janus and Valefor, assume that they have a station point "of the day" which is the locale focus of their current assignment. In any circumstance, no angel or demon will gain more than 1 pt of Essence per day, save for the performance of rites, or gifts from another celestial. BTW, I've always found a low tolerance of munchkinism helps any game. :) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 10:51:53 -0400 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> Tilimok vs. Jordi Previously, from the desktop of in_nomine-digest... >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 10:43:16 -0600 (MDT) >From: Kingsley Lintz >Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. > > The `samples' given by his Angel Attunements give a pretty strong >push for [nonhumans], with his Mercurians coming the CLOSEST with Primates >and that still noted to `help humans to see the similarities between >themselves and their cousins'. Honestly, I don't even get the impression >he applies to a human's animal nature... I'd agree there. In fact, I saw the disparity, figured there are a great many humans who act more like animals than the animals described in Jordi's chapter, and figured something should be done about it. I had the idea for a demon prince to fill that other niche for some time, but I couldn't think of a good way to introduce him. Then this message comes up, and suddenly I think, "It's Time." Whether Yves or Kronos did the prompting... Anyway, I'll get him posted up when I finally get all the writing done on him to my satisfaction. Unless anyone objects, of course... - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ "I love the surgical garment. Enjoy the delights of the Victor Mature abdominal corset. Sail down the Nile on the Bleed-It Kosher Truss. And don't forget the Hercules Hold-'em'in, the all-purpose concrete truss for the man with the family hernia." - -Monty Python, episode 26 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 11:33:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Kyriosity Killed the Kat > > way, and I keep running into the problem that the Kyriotates -DON'T- > > sample multiple perspectives. They drive the Host's mind out completely > into the future body of Dr. Beckett). He then*samples the perspective* of that > person by living their life for a little while. Kyriotates are the same way. My main qualm with this point is that most of them don't seem to do it that way; they drive the host out (to the Marches, of course, not having a handy future body to use) and then go off on Celestial business for a few days, after which the person wakes up and goes home to, hopefully, a happy reunion. I can see that this may apply more to PC Kyrios, so that may be the general purpose of the Choir, but personally, I'm not quite comfortable with it... > > They don't actually gain the PERSPECTIVE on > > both sides of the argument any better than..well, than anyone can just by > > trying to think about it both ways. > ...as above, if it argued about it over a period of days, it'd get the > perspective of both host through their lives... Still, I think, no better than the Elohim who just sits down with each of the parties afterwards and asks them why they feel the way they do. Which, actually, is my other qualm; it's the Elohim's job to balance perspectives, which this view of Kyriotates would overlap. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 12:06:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus's Humanity > Asmodeus's Humanity Attunement - What really happens to a demon with this > 1) Vessel/Body? My interpretation is that the demon's Vessel becomes a human > body. This means that it would have the Body hits of a Mortal (NM, p. 31.) I don't think so, actually...though, under the "To All Tests" clause (which is almost as abused as the commerce clause of the US Constitution, I think), I'd suggest that once he's taken about a dozen hits, he has at least the option of falling down `dead' for a number of hours equal to, say, his Celestial Forces...during which time he will be dead to all tests. I'd let him have some limited awareness of his surroundings, but no option to wake up early, and that awareness would be very foggy. (Keep in mind, even having the Body Hits `of a mortal' is likely to leave him more than the average mortal, since many Celestials have more Corporeal Forces to start with...) > 2) Death? So, speaking of vulnerable, what happens to a demon when their Above, but that's just my idea. > 3) Songs? I don't understand why a demon can't use songs. I'd think that I found it kind of amusing, myself, that they couldn't do a lot of things humans can, but still do several things humans can't. I suspect the provision against regaining Essence was to put a time limit on how long he could keep the Humanity cloak going, but if so, I like it even less...(it costing 1/day means that he basically doesn't gain any anyway..he can keep it up indefinitely unless he's spending otherwise, which seems fair to me..) Otherwise, I'd be inclined to suggest he can use Corporeal songs (as humans are supposed to be able to do that), and can use Attunements that DON'T require Essence, since those don't cause any Disturbance (Renewing the Humanity as the exception, of course), and can use his Band Resonance but can't spend Essence on it. Otherwise, you can spend Essence as you wish on things humans can spend it on (Songs, skills, etc.) but no more than 5 at a shot. {Which is at least nicer than saying, "But, like a human, you blow it all at once if you want to do it at all."} > 4) Disturbance? Obviously they don't cause disturbance, but what happens if > an angel smacks a demon using 'Humanity'? Does that act cause disturbance? It'd have to; that's too easy a test. (On the side note, this may also apply to smacking any Celestial in a strong Role who's acting in that Role as you smack 'em...but probably not, or the Humanity attunement loses a lot of its point and becomes more a bunch of limitations.) My question on this, actually, was, "Does a demon under the Humanity Attunement cause any disturbance when he spends Essence? For that matter, does a human?" It seems not, in both cases, but I'm not immediately sure WHY not. > 5) Tethers? Can a demon using 'Humanity' go into a Divine Tether? If yes, To which I'd like to throw in the question of our favorite Balseraph of Kronos...can they? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 12:33:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > > I certainly don't see it as a major problem..I can see where > >people might have qualms with, say, that Kyrio of Jordi animating a > >bazillion swarms of gnats, each with Strength/12...but enhanced strength > But in this case, I'd say that the swarm itself has the strength not the > individual gnats. The swarm has to work together to perform any feat of > strength. Well, yeah, but a swarm is "about 30 insects"...so you've got a Kyrio of Jordi with, say, 5 CorpF, holding a mass of...45 swarms of 30 gnats each at 12 Strength. Even if you figure they don't have many body hits, I could see a definite case for saying this is wildly unbalanced...even having already said I don't have much problem with it in concept. (Even without getting so extreme, consider a swarm with a Strength/7, say. Thirty - count 'em - no-see-ums land on someone's shoulders, and just pick the guy up, fly him a few hundred feet into the air and let go...at the worst, the Kyrio brings in a couple swarms, so maybe it takes a whopping 90 tiny insects to carry an elephant without getting too winded..) [Alright, maybe a baby elephant, but you see my point.] Though as to burning out the host, we're thinking over here that maybe it's more a matter of doing Celestial things that causes the Host problems...we're not settled on it yet, but..pondering. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 12:41:57 -0500 (CDT) From: corey@cfanet.com Subject: [none] remove corey@cfanet.com in_nomine-l@lists.io.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 11:51:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> A question of essence > So, and angel gets essence back at dawn. What is to stop an angel > catching a plane for half an hour and seeing the dawn again several hundred > miles to the west, and thus regain more essence? Regarding most of these, I'm pretty sure it's actually noted somewhere that they regain Essence once every 24 hours...it'd be a GM call whether that overrides the "sunset/sunrise" provision or not, but I'd tend to think not. (Angelic jetlag can be a terrible thing.) > 9 days. He crosses the date line, so one of the days becomes the next day in > terms of human day counting, so arrives 10 stationary days later, but only 9 > essence richer. > The Demon goes west. The same trip took him 11 days, but the same > time. As he crosses the date line it becomes the day before, and he arrives, Though on this note, there's the definite override that you can't hold more Essence than you have Forces, and racing around the world in opposite directions is an awfully complicated way of getting a couple points up on someone. (You're better off sending one of Beth's Lilim over to ask 'em a little favor...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 16:08:40 -0400 (EDT) From: NemesisXVI@aol.com Subject: IN> night music question... Pertaining to the Night Music supplement: What are the opinions of Litheroy and Alaemon regarding the Austin situation and Furfur? please e-mail me at: Nemesisxvi@aol.com Thanx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 12:46:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Word Bound Celestials > more weird thoughts in a hallucinatory sort of way. You should hallucinate more often.. > ranking celestial in Dominic's camp who embodies the Word of Religious > Wrath, or something to that effect. Either that, or Sin. I haven't Aw, not the Angel of Piling Rocks On A Person's Chest Until They Confess? > So, what I would like, is that when he appears, something actually happens > to the people in his presence. Humans feel suddenly like they have done I LIKE this. It's something that's been sitting in the back of my head for a while, but I haven't been quite able to formulate it... It should probably be based somewhat on the number of Forces the Celestial has...I'd consider its radius to be somewhat based on the amount of Disturbance the Celestial causes when they manifest, with the effects kind of kicking in as humans DO `hear' this, and don't know what do to with it... I'd otherwise suggest toning the effects down a little from your examples, or Word Bound celestials couldn't go ANYWHERE...(eg. even if Andrealphus comes by, while people for miles (or whatever) find themselves eyeing their secretaries or just generally feeling suddenly lustful, they don't start ripping off their clothes..except maybe one or two who are pretty unbalanced to start with. A lesser Word-Bound would leave little ripples of odd feelings as they pass, but on the whole, not overwhelming...not even something that could reliably be used to track them down, as in most people, it would get kind of caught in the undertow of their subconscious and quickly forgotten) At the same time, any Word-Bound celestial should probably have the option of `amplifying' it, at least for a while, by performing one of their personal Rites... {I also kind of like the idea that it can effect Celestials of lower Forces, at least when it's `invoked' like that...the Forces-comparison would probably have a lot of impact on how strong the influence is - possibly just in the difference in Will roles, or possibly as a more fundamental thing - so where the average Celestial rolls his eyes, the average human starts trying to look up people's skirts, and the average squirrel pounces the nearest chipmunk...) > Hosts appears, and you feel the need to confess your darkest secrets. The > Demon of Hot Sauce appears, and people start eating jalapenos by the > bucketful. That sort of thing. And maybe it happens on a (very) small Oog. I take it the Demon of Hot Sauce has the Angel of Alka-Seltzer following him around at all times? > Yes? No? Too bizarre? Probably too bizarre, but still definitely yes... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:02:12 GMT From: dsarrazin@cyberus.ca (Denis Sarrazin) Subject: IN> Stuck in corporeal form? I may have missed it, but is there such a thing as the possibility for an angel to be stuck in their corporeal form such that if their physical body die, the angel dies with it, permanently? Is this described in the book anywhere, and if so, could someone point me to it? Thanks, Denis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:02:10 GMT From: dsarrazin@cyberus.ca (Denis Sarrazin) Subject: IN> Starting out with discord Hi, One of my players has submitted a character which has a fair bit of discord initially. This has given him more point, of course. I'm wondering what you guys think about characters that start with discord (angels, to be more precise). This discord can be eventually removed through proper methods, if I understand the rules correctly, which would eventually leave him with a particularly powerful character. The discord (for an angel) might also make it difficult for him to interact with other PCs, due to the stigma attached to it? I'm basically looking for opinions about this, as I'm curious on how this will work out in game play, and whether it is fair or not. Thanks, Denis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:27:07 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Lilim Geases Elizabeth wrote: >I think the fundamental problem is that little Geases have huge >penalties and big Geases have tiny penalties. The ability to make a >will roll out will help celestials, who are pretty likely to bounce >the Geas anyway, but mortals won't have a chance. I think the only point you are missing with this system (which does seem wierd to me in certain ways as well) is that although humans may not be able to resist geas/1's, the limit on what you can ask for a level 1 geas means that the average human will be able to get it done easily within the hour. I tend to view the time limit on geases not just for how long before the victim suffers again, but how long the geas can be expected to take. So a geas/1 should take about an hour. If the victim takes longer, they suffer. A geas/6 can take up to a year. Therefore if the geas will take a year, the victim shouldn't be punished every hour. Picture it this way. If the geas will take approx. 1 year to complete, the victim can put it off for 11.5 months with no hassals, BUT they're going to be left with a 12-month geas to fulfill in about 2 weeks. That's hard to do. I think though the point is that if you ask a victim to do something difficult but not time-consuming with a geas/6, you can probably set a time limit as part of the geas. Then they'll suffer each time that limit goes past. Of course, the GM would have to rule what a fair limit was. Leath. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:30:13 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Lilim Rules Question Dear List, Yes, yet another Lilim-related rules question. I'm unsure how to interpret the Lilim of Kronos Attunement. It reads "Kronos' Lilim can see Discord in the eyes of others. Also, they can add their Celestial Forces to any attempt to inflict a charmed person with their infernal geas." Now the first part about the Discord is straightforward, but the second part confuses me. Does it mean that the Lilim adds their Celestial forces to the Perception roll to get the geas, or does it mean that their Celestial Forces are added to the difficulty of the victim to resist the geas (like the initial level of Geas being subtracted byt he will roll)? Or does it mean something else entirely? Thanks in advance. Leath. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #310 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.