From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Aug 26 04:51:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06063 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 04:51:50 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA10258 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 04:16:10 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 04:16:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199708260916.EAA10258@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #313 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, August 26 1997 Volume 01 : Number 313 In this digest: Sleep Discord (Re: IN> In Nomine) Re: IN> Smut (and nothing but) Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. Re: IN> New Drugs Re: IN> Hire Purchase of Lilim IN> An angel with discord Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Re: Sleep Discord (Re: IN> In Nomine) Re: IN> An angel with discord IN> Lilith's Potence Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con Re: Re: IN> Re: Smut (and nothing but) Re: IN> Lilim and geases Re: IN> Asmodeus's Humanity Re: IN> Lilim and geases Re: IN> Stuck in corporeal form? IN> Songs and Celestial Resonances Re: IN> A Question of Essence pt 2 Re: IN> Ichor and Angels on ER? Malakim falling (Was: Re: IN> Who is most reliable Cherubs, Malakim, Seraphs or Lilim?) Re: IN> Asmodeus's Humanity Re: IN> A question of essence Re: IN> Starting out with discord Re: IN> Lilim Rules Question Re: IN> Songs and Celestial Resonances Re: IN> Demon becomes an angel? Re: IN> Kyriosity Killed the Kat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:04:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Sleep Discord (Re: IN> In Nomine) At 8:25 PM -0700 8/24/97, The Herder Family wrote: > Sleep: The victim must sleep for the level of discord times 2 hours >in the last 24. If he doesn't, he must suffer the level subtracted for >a number of hours equal to the level. > > Example: Leon, an angel has Sleep/3. He must sleep 6 hours from one >sunrise (Sunset for demons) to another. He didn't, so he suffers -3 to >all his stats for 3 hours. I'd make the length of time much longer than a mere 1-6 hours for the penalty... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:09:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Smut (and nothing but) At 5:55 PM -0400 8/23/97, Adam Canning wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy >>(Though all those "gynocologist" scenes really really shouldn't >be watched by anyone under the age of getting a pap smear...) >< > >So being male, I should never watch them since I'm never going to be old >enough to get a pap smear? Well, once you're over the age of consent for gender-surgery... >> The orgasm is within one's mind only, and post-cuddling >is tidily swept under the rug.< > >Except where his Djinn can use it to manipulate people. Yeah, but *they* don't care... :-p - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:35:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. At 5:58 PM -0700 8/22/97, zingaro@peak.org wrote: >Quick question: >Do folks think that Jordi's word is 'Animals' or 'Animals that aren't humans'? It's animals. Except that humans no longer act in the way that Nature intended (i.e., they've got these nasty, complex tools and they go around doing annoying things with their intelligence). So Jordi would like someone low-tech more than someone high-tech... And he might be persuaded to approve of certain activities -- a mother defending her young, for instance. Where biology inspires actions, Jordi can accept humans as animals... Where humans love animals, he can approve. Jordi is a very prickly person. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:40:07 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> New Drugs On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:45:02 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: > Strength is also a combat 'to-hit' stat. Perhaps rule that the >lifting/carrying ability of Strength is the same, but all skills based >on it still go down? Good point. You're right. >> Tobacco is more like +1 Int, -1 Precision: there's a reason smokers get >> into far more car accidents than non-smokers. > > Lighting cigarettes and accidentally dropping lit ones in your >lap. ;) Or smokers are psychologically risk-takers, and cut things closer. >> By the way, the caffeine analog in chocolate is named theobromine because >> the Latin name for chocolate is Theobroma. Broma means food; most people on >> this list should know what Theo means. Chocolate is God's Food, or so its >> namer thought. > > Damn straight. O=) No argument here! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:40:09 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Hire Purchase of Lilim On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:14:16 +0000, "Nathaniel Eliot" wrote: >> >> This all makes sense, but one huge loophole remains: Lilith is >> >> a Demon Prince: She can impose fifty Geas/6's for no reason at >> >> all if she wants. >> > >> >How do you figure? I assume she'd have to sense need like any other >> >Lilim. >> >> AAs and DPs can basically do anything, at the discretion of the >> GM. They *make* celestials. > >Yes, but that's assuming that Lilith has the nigh infinite power that >you (as GM) would give her. That is *far* from the default >assumption. Canonical: AAs: "Most angels were created by their Archangel molded from the purest patterns of the Symphony." (P. 108) DPs: "More than likely, the PCs were 'born' and trained in their master's Principality in Hell..." (P.155) Lilith: "Each Lilim is an individual creation of Lilith herself." (P.150) But, by all means a GM shouldn't use this power arbitrarily, and I'll be using some non-canonical rules myself. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 05:35:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> An angel with discord Here is the character I ran in Sean Reynold's campaign till he was transported out west by the "Mages by the Sea." I would like to hear peoples opinions on him. Shadowcat - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Steward Cherub of Creation Corporeal: 3 St. 6 Ag. 6 Ethereal : 3 In. 6 Pr. 6 Celestial: 4 Wi. 7 Pe. 9 Attunements: Cherub of Creation, Malakite of Creation, Abracadabra Vessel: Human/2, Role(Museum Director)/5 Skills: Artistry/3, Fighting/4, Knowledge(Archeology)/2, Knowledge(History)/2, Large Weapons(Sword)/2, Small Weapons(Dagger)/2, Throwing/2, Songs: Corporeal Tongues/1, Corporeal Entropy/3, Corporeal Healing/3, Celestial Light/3 Discord: Anger/1 Andrew has been a cherub of Eli for nearly a century now. He acquired the attunement of a Malakite and his discord after a lady in his protection and his lover, a Cherub of Blandine, were killed by a Balseraph of Andrealphus. He feels he could have saved both their lives if he hadnt been detained by a Seraphim of Dominic, who was trying to win brownie points with his archangel. He now constantly looks for the Balseraph, hoping to "even the score. He also will do his best to humiliate servants of Dominic, but not to the point of causing dissonance, or tilting the balance of the war towards hell. He also DOES NOT want to get rid of his discord till after he has met and beaten the Demon that caused it. Andrew is presently working as the head curator of a small museum in southern Oregon. The collection consists primarily of strange and bizarre curios brought from around the world by a family of importers. Most of the items in the collection are quite mundane, though a few have been shown to be mild talismans. There is a small room in the basement of the museum designed to hold more powerful relics. This is where Andrew keeps any items that could prove too dangerous to display. Recently Andrew traded a jeweled bracelet to a Lilim of Valefor for a 3 point Geas. It was the last errand she had before she could start the road to enlightenment. She has not yet decided if she will follow that path or not. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no Saint with out a past, and no Sinner with out a future. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:39:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Speaking of Lilim and Kyrios, what happens when a Lilim does a favor for a Kyrio -- not realizing that it IS a Kyrio, of course -- and then tries to call in the Geas once the Kyrio has left for another host? Does the Geas simply fail, because it was the Kyrio that was Geased, not the host? If so, it makes for a good way for Kyrios to screw over Lilim. If not, then the poor human will have gotten a Geas for absolutely nothing in return. What say you, Beth? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:07:33 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sleep Discord (Re: IN> In Nomine) Elizabeth replied with: > At 8:25 PM -0700 8/24/97, The Herder Family wrote: > > > Sleep: The victim must sleep for the level of discord times 2 hours > >in the last 24. If he doesn't, he must suffer the level subtracted for > >a number of hours equal to the level. > > > > Example: Leon, an angel has Sleep/3. He must sleep 6 hours from one > >sunrise (Sunset for demons) to another. He didn't, so he suffers -3 to > >all his stats for 3 hours. > > I'd make the length of time much longer than a mere 1-6 hours for > the penalty... I'd agree with Elizabeth here. Off the top of my head, I'd suggest that if the celestial doesn't get their minimum amount of sleep, they are distracted and unfocused until they do, with subsequent lost nights (days) being cumulative. Therefore, in the example above, I'd say that Leon suffers -3 until he sleeps for 6 hours. If he misses the next night (or day) he'll be at -6, and likely very cranky. Also, I wouldn't restrict angels/demons to sleep only during the day/night, I'd allow them to sleep any time, as long as they got their minumum requirement every 24 hours or so. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:25:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> An angel with discord In a message dated 97-08-26 01:08:49 EDT, shadowcat wrote: << Here is the character I ran in Sean Reynold's campaign till he was transported out west by the "Mages by the Sea." I would like to hear peoples opinions on him. >> He's cool enough I will likely steal him for my campaign. He has discord, but not so much he's useless. The discord is used to build up and describe his personality. It's not like he did it solely hunted for points. A whole whopping 3 points? He did it for the roleplaying. He should recieve a bit of criticism from his fellow angels, but honestly I can see most angels sympathizing with him. He has a reasonably good motive to keep the discord. Honestly this is a model of what creating a character with discord should be. - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:14:20 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilith's Potence I know this is gonna get Elizabeth riled up, but.... >>>This all makes sense, but one huge loophole remains: Lilith is a Demon Prince: She can impose fifty Geas/6's for no reason at all if she wants.<<< I don't think so-- if Lilith can do that, so could other Princes (yes, Geases are Lilith's specialty, but I don't think she even invented them), and if other Princes could slap Geases on angels at will, they would. >>>Since her Word is Freedom, it would be out of character; but acting in character, she can basically do anything she wants with her Lilim, barring a truly Bright Lilim with an Archangel's protection--even then it better be an old powerful Archangel, not a newbie like Laurence--Lilith is nearly as old as Yves.<<< Oh, I don't agree that Lilith is necessarily more powerful than Laurence...or any other Archangel. My take on Lilith has always been that she started out as a mortal; Lucifer elevated her to the status of a Superior, but she's still inherently weaker than born celestials. (I'm not saying she's necessarily the weakest Superior of all....but I seriously doubt she'd want to go toe-to-toe with Laurence, Heaven's greatest demon-slayer.) Also, remember age isn't necessarily an indication of power, especially with Superiors. Haagenti munched several Princes who were much older than him. The power of a Superior waxes and wanes with the power of their Word. >>>However, since Lilith's Word is Freedom, my take is that she'd be relatively kind to her Lilim.<<< Relatively.....for a Demon Princess. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:42:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con At 12:36 PM +0000 8/22/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> P.S. Archbeth just hoe many list folk DO owe you Geasa?? > >I think I am in that crowd - I could have sworn the resonance needs >eye-contact, but she looks like she found and is fulfilling my "Needs >a mature group to RP with as a player". It's one of the things you can buy from Jean -- "requires email contact"... O;> [We gotta get together on stuff -- have we swapped phone numbers yet? And good times to call?] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:38:32 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: Re: IN> Re: Smut (and nothing but) > "Though now you have me thinking - surely there must be some good love scenes > from something..." > > Maybe...but they'd be accidental. Movies are Media, too. I don't think Nybbas goes entirely unchecked. There is some decent stuff on TV. Mind you, the dung-to-diamonds ratio is a bit large, but there is good stuff. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:54:06 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and geases At 16:14 25/08/97 -0500, Walt Mazur wrote: > >On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 20:12:24 -0700 (PDT), Tony Zbaraschuk > wrote: >>2) They can't create a Geas unless the person has consented to their >>aid. (The old "deal with the devil") bit. > >No, consent of the Geased is not required--check the Lilim section. The bit >with the conversation with the businessman on page 149 is that he could >refuse to accept that money; some favors you just can't refuse accepting, >like saving your life. Well, the bit with the businessman on p149 does show the Lilim asking first. If its a real need and she hasn't flubbed her perception roll then the person is very unlikely to refuse (someone walks up to you from out of the blue and suddenly offers you the chance to solve all the problems that were keeping you awake at night with no effort? Do you refuse? :-) ). I very much like the deal with the devil idea and it gets over the concept of the maternity nurse which I really wasn't keen on. I mean, if you can geas a baby like that then presumably you can geas a dog to kill its owner etc etc -- got to be similar intelligence. That wasn't a fair deal in any sense of the word and I think Lilim should have to work harder for their geases. YMMV. 'What do you mean I have to kill someone because you mixed up some baby food 30 years ago?' It may not need conscious consent but some subconscious understanding of the deal should be there, I think. People do get into them willingly, even (especially) if they don't understand. I thought that was sort of the point. jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:17:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus's Humanity > On Sun, 24 Aug 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > > Constitution, I think), I'd suggest that once he's taken about a dozen > > hits, he has at least the option of falling down `dead' for a number of > > hours equal to, say, his Celestial Forces...during which time he will be > This could get VERY inconveniant for the demon, if they deside to > do an autopsy before the time is up. >;-) Just imagine having to lie Aw, it's just a Vessel. Actually, having given it more thought, a Will role to shake it off wouldn't be unreasonable - though my inclination would still be that you can't do it until AFTER a number of hours equal to your Corporeal forces. (eg. with 2 CorpF and 5 CelF, you're solidly out for two hours, with an option on three more if the people bugging you are still around...after that, you have to either start the heartbeat going or let the Vessel go. With 5 CorpF and 2 CelF, you're just out for two hours...) Besides - how often do they get a good autopsy going within a couple hours? [MaBarry: "Not in any city worth a Tether *I*'ve been in"] Now, I'd have to grant my `experience' in the matter comes mostly from movies, but it seems like the police like to futz around a little first, and that only starts when they find you... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:03:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and geases At 12:02 AM +0000 8/25/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 20:12:24 -0700 (PDT), Tony Zbaraschuk > wrote: [...] >>6) If somebody resists, they get a Will roll; if they fail it, then >>the Geas locks and they're forced to do it. If they successfully >>resist, then the Geas goes "poof" and the invoker gets the backlash. > >The Lilim gets two will rolls, at invokation and one CD days later. The *subject* gets two Will rolls (the Lilim only ever makes a Perception roll). The first is Will minus Geas Level. The second is straight Will. [...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:38:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Stuck in corporeal form? > > Sort of. See the Etherial Discord, Bound. (p 87) > Though I don't think a Bound Celestial would die if the body > did...that'd be a MAJOR disadvantage to being Bound that I think they'd've > mentioned. (MY read on it is similar to Outcasts, since they can't That's why I said sort of. They don't die when they "die", but they have a hard time going celestial and can't go to Heaven or Hell while suffering from this Discord. Not quite what he asked about but very nasty nonetheless. Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:40:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Songs and Celestial Resonances It occured to me, reading the stuff about how the Song of Motion is faster than most Ofanim, that perhaps celestials have a *bonus* to Songs that are akin to their Resonance? Say, add the appropriate Forces to either the skill roll or the Check Digit of the Song? (I like adding them to the Check Digit, I think.) So Ofanim would add Corporeal Forces for the Corporeal Song of Motion, Ethereal Forces for the Ethereal Song of Motion, and Celestial Forces for the Celestial Song of Motion. Cherubim & Djinn would add Forces for the Songs of Attraction. Impudites would possibly add forces for the Songs of Charm? Kyrios would add Forces for the Song of Possession (!!). Elohim would add Forces to the hypothetical Song(s) of Empathy, and Seraphim to the equally hypothetical Song(s) of Truth. That sound like a way to keep particular Choirs/Bands "the best", even when there are Songs out there that duplicate resonances? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:06:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A Question of Essence pt 2 At 2:57 PM +1000 8/25/97, ehp wrote: > Thanks for the talkback. :) > Well, if it is to be assumed that it occurs once every 24 hours, and >angels et al have an "anchor" time zone, is it not possibly to assume that >angels can in effect /choose/ the time of day they get their essence by >realligning their temporal anchor? Nah -- then you couldn't tell the difference 'tween them, Ethereal spirits, humans... Demons... And it's too much bookkeeping! > Or, how long after one moves time zone should an angel take to adapt >to the new dawn time? A drift perhaps of one hour per day, lengthening the >time between essence regeneration to 25 hours each day that passes till the >time zone and the angel are in allignment... > Thoughts? Just give it to them the next sunrise that occurs at least 24 hours after the last time they got dawn-Essence. So they have bad luck and don't get essence for 47 hours. That's their problem. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:51:09 -0500 From: Colin Fredericks Subject: Re: IN> Ichor and Angels on ER? Hail. Wow. Ichor sounds neato. Really neato. That's one of the best-sounding new Discords I've seen in a *while*. My only complaint is that it isn't really that debilitating the way some others are. Making it Celestial would balance it out more, since Celestial discords are nastier (possibility of not regenerating Essence). It does make sense as Corp, though. It's really cool. As for the saving of lives... well, it's an interesting idea that God created the original Symphony without any sort of evil. Of course, that idea rests solely on the ideas that a: God created the Symphony in the first place, and b: God is neither omnipotent or omniscient. If you take a look through the corners of the book, you see that God (according to IN) may not have created the Symphony, and may simply be the most powerful deity around right now. Now, going by the Christian belief system, God is both omnipotent and omniscient. Either of these would preclude a good God (which we are undoubtedly dealing with here; I don't think anyone would argue with me on that) creating a Symphony in which upstarts would rebel against Him and in which pain would ever really exist. Here's my reasoning. An omnipotent God could create a Symphony so strong that no one would ever challenge Him. Only a really stupid God would foget that. An omniscient God would know beforehand how to write a Symphony without pain and suffering. Having both, of course, fixes the whole thing up. Therefore, if God did create the Symphony (essentially a GM's call at this point), He created pain and evil, at least the potential for it, from the very beginning. God, in all technicality, is above our mortal ideas of "good and evil." Why? Take a look at Good Omens. It's not the Great Plan. It's not the Powerful Plan. It's not the Good Plan or the Evil Plan. It's the Ineffable Plan. The Unknowable Plan. No one really knows what the hel.. um, what the heck God is doing, and no one ever can. Knowing *why* is just as impossible. Maybe He did it for contrast, as so many people say: "you can't have the ups without the downs." We can't argue that saving someone's life is bringing the Symphony back into order - that's a campaign decision. What we know, from the book, is that destruction and meddling cause disturbance in the Symphony. Saving a life can be just as meddling as killing someone. I think that unless the campign is run from the perspective of someone overthrowing the perfection created by a perfect God (how?), that saving someone would likely cause disturbance in the same way as killing someone. Stay Cool; -Sir Colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:38:06 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Malakim falling (Was: Re: IN> Who is most reliable Cherubs, Malakim, Seraphs or Lilim?) Nathaniel Eliot wrote: [snip] > I would point out that it hasn't been decided if Malakim *can't* > fall, or if they simply get axed before they do. At least, not in my > mind... p.100: "There are no Fallen Malakim [...] They point to this as evidence that they are incapable of Falling, but other angels - without denying the Malakim's strength of character - speculate that it's more a sign of how serious they are about policing themselves." But, OTOH, p. 58, box on Falling: "When an Outcast angel fails another dissonance roll before getting rid of dissonance, he Falls. [...] The only exceptions are Malakim. They don't Fall; they just gain another level of Discord." Maybe if a Malakite lives long enough to accumulate *lots* of Discord he could fall. Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Furious activity is no substitute for understanding. - H H Williams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:46:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus's Humanity At 12:06 PM -0600 8/24/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: [...] >> 4) Disturbance? Obviously they don't cause disturbance, but what happens if >> an angel smacks a demon using 'Humanity'? Does that act cause disturbance? > It'd have to; that's too easy a test. (On the side note, this may >also apply to smacking any Celestial in a strong Role who's acting in that >Role as you smack 'em...but probably not, or the Humanity attunement loses >a lot of its point and becomes more a bunch of limitations.) I'm not sure -- you have to pay for a high Role, and you'd have to be *in* that Role. A demon with Humanity can drop into a place without even a Role/1, and causes no disturbance... ("Who was that masked man?") > My question on this, actually, was, "Does a demon under the >Humanity Attunement cause any disturbance when he spends Essence? For >that matter, does a human?" It seems not, in both cases, but I'm not >immediately sure WHY not. Or it causes a more "normal" kind of disturbance -- the sort of calm hum/chitter from a disk-drive, rather than the screech of the speaker system going bad... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:58:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A question of essence At 9:18 AM -0400 8/24/97, speaks@mindspring.com wrote: >At 11:55 AM 8/24/97 +1000, ehp wrote: >> Here is a fairly silly question, but I am actually interrested in >>hearing the answers, so here goes. It is inspired by the movie gremlins 2. >> So, and angel gets essence back at dawn. What is to stop an angel >>catching a plane for half an hour and seeing the dawn again several hundred >>miles to the west, and thus regain more essence? > >Angels who gain more than 1 essence in a 24 hour period, discounting any >gained through reliquaries, superiors and rites, explode and are never seen >again. That's only if you planned it in advance, like sticking about nine cats at various points around the globe... It's every 24 hours, you get a point of Essence. Angels get it at sunrise. If they get more than one sunrise at a time, then they get their next essence at the first sunrise after 24+ hours. If an angel has multiple vessels/hosts, then the GM arbitrarily decides which one it is (usually the first) and gives the player dirty looks. (This came up before, and ought to be in the digests. Go to http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine and poke around. I think the digests are located under Resources.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:11:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Starting out with discord At 10:02 PM +0000 8/24/97, Denis Sarrazin wrote: >Hi, > >One of my players has submitted a character which has a fair bit of >discord initially. This has given him more point, of course. I'm >wondering what you guys think about characters that start with discord >(angels, to be more precise). This discord can be eventually removed >through proper methods, if I understand the rules correctly, which >would eventually leave him with a particularly powerful character. >The discord (for an angel) might also make it difficult for him to >interact with other PCs, due to the stigma attached to it? > >I'm basically looking for opinions about this, as I'm curious on how >this will work out in game play, and whether it is fair or not. If he's an angel, then he'd better have a good reason why his Archangel *tolerates* all that Discord! See p. 61, Angelic Discord. If he really wants it, make sure that he *earns* the Discord's removal!! And make him pay back the character points he got for it, too. And if the character just isn't able to manage it... Well, maybe he should be filing books in the Library/cultivating flowers in the Garden/doing more training in the Groves or something, instead of being on Earth, where he keeps getting into trouble... Don't forget Servitors of Judgment will not like finding someone with Discord. Other angels know that Judgment can make things hard for friends of a Discordant angel, too. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:15:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Rules Question At 5:34 AM +0000 8/25/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:30:13 GMT+10, "Leathal Weapon" ><938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> wrote: > >>Yes, yet another Lilim-related rules question. I'm unsure how to >>interpret the Lilim of Kronos Attunement. It reads "Kronos' Lilim can >>see Discord in the eyes of others. Also, they can add their Celestial >>Forces to any attempt to inflict a charmed person with their infernal >>geas." Now the first part about the Discord is straightforward, but >>the second part confuses me. Does it mean that the Lilim adds their >>Celestial forces to the Perception roll to get the geas, or does it >>mean that their Celestial Forces are added to the difficulty of the >>victim to resist the geas (like the initial level of Geas being >>subtracted byt he will roll)? > >The former, I'd say. The will roll is the victim's roll, not the Lilim's. >However, since the initial roll is boosted, the final check digit will be >boosted. I might make it the latter, myself -- they have to *charm* that fellow first, but it will toast his Will. (Though "charm"? What, you need an Impudite? Song of Charm? Argh.) >But to take the extreme case, suppose the Lilim has 6 celestial forces and >perception of 12. That makes her base roll 18, so her check digit will be >7-12. Plus any essence spent! Does she really get that level of Geas and >will reduction, or always 6? 6! 6! Dear ethereal gods, 6! (Okay, the *Will roll* might be reduced by more. Maybe...) Or maybe she picks up a need/6 and a need/1-6? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 04:11:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Songs and Celestial Resonances On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > It occured to me, reading the stuff about how the Song of Motion is > faster than most Ofanim, that perhaps celestials have a *bonus* to > Songs that are akin to their Resonance? > > Say, add the appropriate Forces to either the skill roll or the > Check Digit of the Song? (I like adding them to the Check Digit, > I think.) > > So Ofanim would add Corporeal Forces for the Corporeal Song of > Motion, Ethereal Forces for the Ethereal Song of Motion, and > Celestial Forces for the Celestial Song of Motion. > > Cherubim & Djinn would add Forces for the Songs of Attraction. > > Impudites would possibly add forces for the Songs of Charm? > Mercurians aren't without charm in their own way, thank you very much. (Yeah, I know.... a Mercurian's Resonance is based on Perception, not Will, but I just had to throw this in). > Kyrios would add Forces for the Song of Possession (!!). > > Elohim would add Forces to the hypothetical Song(s) of Empathy, > and Seraphim to the equally hypothetical Song(s) of Truth. > > That sound like a way to keep particular Choirs/Bands "the best", > even when there are Songs out there that duplicate resonances? > Yeah, I have to agree that rule was weird. And while your idea at the surface may seem great on the surface, I'm concerned the effect this would have on game balance. Just think what havoc a Kyrio with a Song of Possession could do. And then what about demons? Impudites and Djinn were the only band you mentioned. What do they have to tip the scales in their direction? > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:31:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demon becomes an angel? At 12:35 PM +0000 8/22/97, Denis Sarrazin wrote: >Basically, her PC used to be a Demon, but then something >happened and she now only does good, following the advice of an angel. >What exactly does that make her character? A demon still? A >renegade? A Renegade demon. (I've got one of those as well -- trying to balance her selfish nature against what she feels is and is not right to do to humans. She's fallen in with angels, too, and they've been warping her with subtle peer pressure. Angel cooties!) If you got an appropriate Divine Intervention in play, then it is *possible* (you're the GM, of course it's possible, if you like the idea!) that the character might be spontaneously Redeemed -- they would then be an Outcast angel, Heartless, unable to ascend to Heaven (without following another angel or using a Tether?), and number one on Asmodeus' hit list. >How would one create such as character, then? We did it basically the same as creating any other character -- we didn't mandate that any Discord be around (though mine *does* have 9 Geas/6's, for various reasons...). If you wanted to stick something like Merciful in there, you probably could. >What does the process of converting demons to angels normally involve, >if it is even possible to do so? P. 60, Redemption box. Demons who can somehow spurn enough of their selfish nature to be acceptible may ask an Archangel to redeem them. Many demons don't survive (one assumes they weren't *really* repentant, or at least not enough). They then become a Servitor of that Archangel. If you don't want to deal with the mechanics of that, then you can, as Calabim@aol.com noted, play an angel who *was* redeemed. That's more likely to get trusted by other angels, and she'll have an Archangel to serve (though she might not yet have the Choir attunement for him!). >What about a renegade: can they do good if they used to be a demon? They have free will. It may be *hard* for them to manage it as instinctively as an angel, but they can do it if they want. (And a renegade is still a demon. Just a demon with a lot of other demons who would like to kill him if they caught him.) >Would an angel actually "use" and trust one such? It would depend on the angel. Use? -- lots could probably justify that. Trust? Probably not, or at least not entirely. The goal would likely be to get the renegade into a state where they wanted Redemption, and would be likely to survive it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:06:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriosity Killed the Kat At 11:49 PM -0600 8/22/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 IQJason@aol.com wrote: >> > I'm having trouble understanding the way that the Kyriotate resonance -- >> > multiplicity -- is an aspect of the Divine in the way that truth or [...] > Since Jason asked the question, I've been TRYING to see them that >way, and I keep running into the problem that the Kyriotates -DON'T- >sample multiple perspectives. They drive the Host's mind out completely >and remain entirely themselves, just in a different body... I see Kyrios as akin to role-players... They don't (except for those of Destiny) get the *experiences* of their hosts' memories, but they get to see what it's like to be: nearsighted, farsighted, fat, thin, every race and species you can think of, flying above the city, running through the alleys, bagging stuff at the checkout stand, weaving through traffic, hiding in gutters... They're like an expert actor, dropped into situation after situation, where they have to figure out who they're supposed to be, how they're supposed to act -- and they get the reactions of others to them, and the sensations of being in a body that's probably not quite perfect. They possess the bully, and see people cringe away; they possess the battered victim, and must cringe themselves (lest they provoke something to harm a host); they possess a beautiful person and receive the attention; they possess an ugly person, and watch as eyes are averted. They can, one presumes, feel the hunger of the alley cat they've taken (though they don't *need* to eat), and understand the interesting scents of a dog. They can know what it is to be tone deaf, and to have perfect pitch, and to hear into the ultrasonic. They can see color-blind, and "color-sense." They can be hyper-sensitive to any sensation, or with no sense of pain. So they can range over everything, gain different perspectives, even though the host's memories are closed off to them. A Kyrio *can* walk a mile in someone else's shoes. At 11:33 AM -0600 8/24/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> > way, and I keep running into the problem that the Kyriotates -DON'T- >> > sample multiple perspectives. They drive the Host's mind out completely >> into the future body of Dr. Beckett). He then*samples the perspective* of that >> person by living their life for a little while. Kyriotates are the same way. > My main qualm with this point is that most of them don't seem to >do it that way; they drive the host out (to the Marches, of course, not >having a handy future body to use) and then go off on Celestial business >for a few days, after which the person wakes up and goes home to, >hopefully, a happy reunion. I can see that this may apply more to PC >Kyrios, so that may be the general purpose of the Choir, but personally, >I'm not quite comfortable with it... Any Kyrio in *our* games who tried that one would be in Big Trouble. (Worrying friends and family sick is Not Okay. Most Kyrios that we know of are in cats, pigeons, and easily-portable mice, most of the time...) >> > They don't actually gain the PERSPECTIVE on >> > both sides of the argument any better than..well, than anyone can just by >> > trying to think about it both ways. >> ...as above, if it argued about it over a period of days, it'd get the >> perspective of both host through their lives... > Still, I think, no better than the Elohim who just sits down with >each of the parties afterwards and asks them why they feel the way they >do. Which, actually, is my other qualm; it's the Elohim's job to balance >perspectives, which this view of Kyriotates would overlap. Kyrios have to remain themselves throughout their body-swapping -- they need some essential core of "self" to counteract how society will treat them (as well as the different sensations of different bodies). They *experience* everything, directly (and from the itty-bitty sample, seem to seriously glory in it). Elohim take subjective viewpoints and combine them, giving weight only where it's rational to do so. (Elohim are not Spock, but they're distant cousins...) A Kyrio thinks of what's best for itself/its host; an Elohite thinks of what is best for the Symphony... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #313 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.