From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 28 19:14:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15624 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:14:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04519 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:33:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:33:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199708282333.SAA04519@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #317 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 317 In this digest: Re: IN> Lilim and geases Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con Re: IN> Lilith's Potence Re: IN> Songs and Celestial Resonances Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Roles (was Re: IN> Character idea: Rolemaker) IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) Re: Roles (was Re: IN> Character idea: Rolemaker) IN> Re: Changing nature (was - Hire Purchase of Lilim) Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con Re: IN> New Drugs Re: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) Re: IN> Re: Changing nature (was - Hire Purchase of Lilim) Re: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... Re: IN> Lilim Geases Re: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Lilim Geases ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:00:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and geases At 7:53 PM +0000 8/26/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:54:06 +0200, Jo Hart wrote: [...] >>I very much like the deal with the devil idea and it gets over the concept >>of the maternity nurse which I really wasn't keen on. I mean, if you can >>geas a baby like that then presumably you can geas a dog to kill its owner >>etc etc -- got to be similar intelligence. That wasn't a fair deal in any >>sense of the word and I think Lilim should have to work harder for their >>geases. YMMV. 'What do you mean I have to kill someone because you mixed up >>some baby food 30 years ago?' > >I'm not really keen on that either, nor on the Lilim waitress, paramedic, >etc. I wouldn't mind a canonical ruling that some level of consent is >needed, especially for small things. But those aren't the rules now. So far, the only "consent" is whether or not you refuse the boon. If someone offers you a lot of money when you need it, and you say "No," then no hook is established. If a baby spat up that babyfood, then the hook probably wouldn't be there. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:17:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... At 12:22 AM -0600 8/27/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> >Does the Geas simply fail, because it was the Kyrio that was Geased, not >> >the host? >> The Geas-hook... >> #2: (assuming she didn't use the hook to trackdown) won't invoke at all. >> It will remain inert and the host will be going, "huh? do I know you?" > I don't think Geas hooks can reasonably be used to track someone >down...that's too much overlap with the Cherub/Djinn Resonance. Tough. Karakash canoned it a while back -- Lilim can use Geases (and hooks) to track someone down. Once there, the Geas *MUST* be invoked, or it will go poof. Once you start tracking, you can't stop, either, or the Geas/hook will go poof. (They roll daily against Perception + Geas-level, using the location part of the Cherubim Resonance table. "General condition," etc., doesn't come through. Only location.) This is one of the things that keeps Free Lilim from just vanishing themselves and going Renegade. If Asmodeus wants to buy one of the suspected Renegade's Geasa, he can... And then he gives it to one of his Servitors and sends them out to check up on her. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:57:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con At 8:46 AM -0400 8/25/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Aug 22, 5:29pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con >> At 12:17 AM -0500 8/22/97, Shadowcat wrote: >> >P.S. Archbeth just hoe many list folk DO owe you Geasa?? >> >> I dunno. At least 3-4, I'd say. >> I stopped paying as much attention to those when I went Bright. >> O;> > > How about all those Geas/1 you gather for digging through >the archives? ;) Must be getting pretty close to a Geas/5 or 6 >on some of those Superiors right now! Shhhhhhh! Don't *tell* them! The hooks don't show as Discord! At 12:50 AM +0000 8/27/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >>>I think I am in that crowd - I could have sworn the resonance needs >>>eye-contact, but she looks like she found and is fulfilling my "Needs >>>a mature group to RP with as a player". >> >>It's one of the things you can buy from Jean -- "requires email >>contact"... O;> > >Oooh - Bright Lilim resonances! I like it - it fits very well. Got >any others? http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/rules.html#BrightLilimChoirAttunements But, of course, a Superior could do up a custom-tailored version. And/or a Word-bound might get one. And Superiors can do anything they want (nearly), and I *am* the Archangel of Archives... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:51:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence At 5:23 AM -0400 8/27/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Maybe it's not worth the trouble? Hm.... I would assume it's >*easier* for Lilith to do it, since it *is* her resonance...<<< > >Sorry, but I repeat: if Princes could slap Geases on angels at will, they >would. "At Will" is different than "takes enough effort that doing it regularly will make you a target for the other Princes." Other options: It alerts the celestial's Superior ("A Superior is messing with my Servitor!"); It makes you slightly vunerable while you do it; It makes more noise than Baal dropping a planet-buster from orbit; It makes noise *and* makes you vunerable; It makes noise *and* makes you vunerable *AND* alerts the Servitor's Superior! If imposing Discord is at least as hard as removing it, then it's much easier to get a *willing* subject... ("I'm going to Geas you, and you're not going to resist. In return, I let you live. You like that bargain, don't you?") Remember -- the Superiors are all but omnipotent from the viewpoint of lowly Servitors. But they have each other as equals, so you *can* say that something is too hard/dangerous for them to bother with, though still *possible*. (Of course, there's always the "take them back to Hell and disassemble at one's leisure over a cold glass of wine" option, as you point out. In one's stronghold, one isn't in as much danger...) >For that matter, I kind of doubt Superiors can easily slap *any* >kind of Discord on someone else's Servitors. Sure, if you capture them and >have some time to spend with them...but Archangels and Princes would both >go around tossing Discords right and left at other celestials if that were >feasible. (I guess you could propose that they don't by mutual agreement-- >"If you go around Geasing my Servitors, I'll do the same to yours"-- but I >can't believe any kind of universal "treaty" among Superiors would survive >for long.) Same way the Internet works, except they don't have laws to prevent them from nuking AGIS. If you go around being too much of a pain, everybody teams up against you and you turn into a smoking spot on the floor. Lucifer and Malphas and Asmodeus work very hard to make sure there's a balance of terror in Hell. >>>>She can't be all-over "weaker" than the other Princes, at least, or else >she'd have been dogfood centuries ago.<<< > >*Someone* has to be the weakest. They aren't all equal. Not equal in all areas, but they have to have some minimum power to remain Princes. (And they derive some minimum power from *being* Princes -- look at Furfur.) If anything, Furfur should be weakest. Among other things, he *owes* Lilith! (Being a Prince doesn't allow him to remove the Geas upon him?(!) ) >>>>(Can't have it both ways -- either she's got enough personal power to >defend herself, or she's got Lucy backing her up and *nobody* wants to >cross her...)<<< > >I think she has enough personal power to defend herself-- but she'd still >probably lose a fight to the death. It's just that that she'd take a big >enough piece out of the Superior who did her in, it wouldn't be worth it. >She stays alive by being more useful than she is annoying. And Kobal stays alive because Lucy likes him... Otherwise, everyone would gang up and pound him. (I'm actually of the opinion that he and Lil are of similar power; Nybbas is young and growing, but doesn't have the same power as the old hands like Andre and Asmodeus. Beleth scares people into giving her more power than she could really claim normally; another one not worth the trouble to take down, especially since one doesn't want to cause problems for the gatekeeper of the Marches. Kronos, Baal, and Asmodeus are probably the most generally accepted as "Don't mess!" Valefor is too hard to catch, ditto Malphas, and Lucifer likes him. Vapula is too useful overall. Haagenti and Kobal come as a pair. Saminga and Belial are easier to manipulate than fight.) Of the one-on-one matches of "fight to the death," I think Kronos, Baal, Asmodeus, and maybe Belial are the "sure bets for surviving" no matter who they're fighting against. Beleth comes close, too. IOW, I don't think you can stick any of the Princes into a weakest/strongest scale. They have strengths and weaknesses, and any conflict between them will depend on whether they're matching strength to strength or weakness to weaknesses. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 14:13 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Songs and Celestial Resonances >How about the opposite, kind of: Should songs that emulate resonances allow >use of choir and band attunments where they make sense? From a meta viewpoint, I'd say this is bad -- it would blur the Choir and Band Resonances too much. I think this is why some other similar things aren't allowed (like having Choir Attunements from multiple Superiors blurs *them* too much). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 18:57 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases >>>>One more thing I've been thinking about as a house rule is that >dissonance (or damage) from Geases shouldn't be curable -- it's not >really an instantaneous thing like normal dissonance, but an ongoing >process. This precludes the trick of going into a Tether once a month >to get the dissonance from your Geas/4 removed, and makes ignoring a >Geas/6 a nastier proposition....<<< > >It takes a week to remove a note of dissonance in a Tether. If you want to >constantly spend 25% of your time just working off dissonance....and how >many Seneschals will put up with that? True, but for a Geas/5 or Geas/6, it's much less of an issue. And it shouldn't be that way, as others have pointed out. A Geas/5 should be harder to deal with, not easier. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:03 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... At 12:50 AM 8/27/97 +0000, you wrote: >> Speaking of Lilim and Kyrios, what happens when a Lilim does a >> favor for a Kyrio -- not realizing that it IS a Kyrio, of course >> -- and then tries to call in the Geas once the Kyrio has left for >> another host? > >What happens if the reverse happens - Lilim Geas-hooks a mortal, >Kyriotate possesses mortal later, and Lilim tries to use the Geas. > "Hello Miss. Joe isn't home right now but stick around. I have a friend who really want's to meet you." [Picture raven tapping on the window of a Malakite's car] Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:32:36 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. At 03:39 AM 8/27/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:07:44 -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >>Two likely points in history for Jordi to get soured on humans >>are (1) right after our Fall, ... and (2) right after the Flood, ... > >I think other points could be the founding of cities, which caused >disruption of everything within traveling range of the city--wood cutting >for building, agriculture taking over from native plants, domestic animals >pushing out wild animals, etc.--and the industrial revolution which caused >much more massive changes. > I agree. The stuff after the Flood would probably have been viewed as simply a hunter-prey interaction by Jordi. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:54:56 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... At 11:37 PM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Jeff Miller wrote: > >> At 12:39 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >Speaking of Lilim and Kyrios, what happens when a Lilim does a favor for >> >a Kyrio -- not realizing that it IS a Kyrio, of course -- and then tries >> >to call in the Geas once the Kyrio has left for another host? >> > >> Oh, my! >> >> ROTFLMAO > >(sarcasm) Oh, well then, this explains everything. (/sarcasm) > >Pray tell, how does this response help things in the slightest? >I get the distinct feeling that I'm being mocked and that's the surest >way to get me pissed off. > I'm sorry no mocking intended. I was just picturing the look on the Lilim's face when the mortal went, "Huh? Do I know you?" Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:50:40 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... At 12:22 AM 8/27/97 -0600, you wrote: >> >Does the Geas simply fail, because it was the Kyrio that was Geased, not >> >the host? >> The Geas-hook... >> #2: (assuming she didn't use the hook to trackdown) won't invoke at all. >> It will remain inert and the host will be going, "huh? do I know you?" > I don't think Geas hooks can reasonably be used to track someone >down...that's too much overlap with the Cherub/Djinn Resonance. It'd >probably be quite reasonable to say a Cherub or Djinn could do it (using >the Geas as a kind of `material link', similar to, I suppose, attuning to >someone via photograph...), but Lilim don't have tracking like that. >Unfortunately, a Geased subject probably CAN weasel out of it if they can >actually vanish like that...which isn't particularly less fair than the >fact that they can get away just by devoting their lives to being >completely useless. There could be a whole adventure in figuring out just *who* she got her hooks into. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 13:55 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Roles (was Re: IN> Character idea: Rolemaker) [Me:] >> The tricky part of Roles isn't the government paperwork to substantiate >> it, but the *people* -- as I see it, a high-level Role requires other >> people to remember you. A Role/6 would withstand an FBI Top Secret >> security clearance check, while a Role/1 (which I view basically as >> being a driver's license and an SSN) probably wouldn't stand up to even >> a superficial investigation by the local cops -- the documents may not >> be backed by appropriate computer records, or would fail a simple >> cross-check. [Nathaniel:} >I don't see why a Role/1 wouldn't be completely backed by paperwork - >given the "ease" of doing it, I would think all Celestials with roles >would have documents covering everything. Like you said, the role >refers to *people* - if they go to check on that "mother" on your >birth certificate, they aren't going to find her. Either she's >already dead, or she never existed. And if they use a corpse as a >"mother", nobody is going to remember her having you. I see full documentation coming at about Role/2 or Role/3 -- if you want a fully-consistent paper trail, it's a lot of work. Most people are accepted fine in society if they've got a driver's license (for ID), a SSN (can't get a job without one), and a credit card (you're nobody if you don't have a credit record...). You don't *need* anything more than that unless you expect someone to investigate your background. Therefore, I figure Role/1 is the minimum to get by day-to-day in human society without being questioned/hassled. There's no need to go through all the effort for anything more sophisticated in the way of records in most cases. The way I view the various Role levels from this perspective: Role/1 -- will withstand a cursory look; if a cop stops you for jaywalking or a speeding ticket, he won't see anything funny about you. You can get a job, rent an apartment, drive a car. Role/2 -- will withstand a cursory background check in records; an IRS auditor wouldn't find anything funny about you. You could buy a house, or get a minorly-sensitive job. Role/3 -- will withstand a substantial investigation, the paper trail is impeccable, but much of it is unverifiable with real people. You could probably get a low-level security clearance (passing a cursory FBI check), and pretty much any level of investigation by local police won't turn up anything funny. You could easily get a sensitive corporate job. Role/4 -- most commonly-consulted human sources (doctor, neighbors, former employers) will substantiate your identity, many people in your locale know you. Your backtrail grows significantly less substantial more than a few years ago, being nearly all paper. Most private investigators doing a detailed check (with a big budget) on you would conclude you were OK. You could probably pass a superficial FBI investigation, but it's not a sure thing. You can survive modest media attention. You could run for local office. Role/5 -- will withstand all but the most thorough investigation; don't run for President (or seek a Cabinet or Supreme Court position), there are still holes here and there in your background -- a year where no one saw you, a grade school teacher who is *sure* you were never in her class, etc. You can survive substantial media attention. Enough anomalies exist that a major FBI investigation would turn them up, or a muck-raking newspaper reporter would probably smell a rat. You could run for a state office in most states. Role/6 -- *everything* about you will check out perfectly, no one would ever suspect you are anyone other than who you appear to be. You can withstand any amount of investigation by any mundane means, including massive world-wide media attention. You could run for President. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:06:44 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) Rivet, the demon knight of mistaken identity is a balseraph & loyal servant of Kobal. He is responsible for all the annoying, embarrassing, dangerous and amusing mistakes that people can make when they mistake one person for someone else. On the whole he satisfies himself with inspiring sitcom writers and playing with mortals, although he has successfully impersonated other demons (thus getting them into 'amusing' trouble with The Game) in the past. His great ambition, however, is to try to impersonate an angel. Not just any angel but an AA -- any AA, whichever would be most amusing. Evidently he can't 'manifest' in a tether, although its easy for him to generate a decent disturbance in the symphony by killing a couple of mortals -- of course he needs to figure it all out very carefullly, especially as he doesn't want to get caught by any actual AAs. Now, all he needs to do is follow some angels around, figure out who their superiors are and whether he could manage the imitation. Its a drawn-out task but a dedicated trickster needs to make time for research, even dangerous research. When he is ready, he makes his move (most likely to try to start with Eli, as its unlikely that anyone would be able to summon the original) - he is just experimenting, seeing how the angels (PCs?) react. He'll try to catch them at a time they aren't expecting, when they are tired, and try to get them to do something totally vague & pointless, just to test how good his 'disguise' is. After this his own DP drops in on him, seeming more amused than he has been in .. well.. centuries. He also has a small itsy suggestion for an improvement to the prank -- next time, the Balseraph is told, it would be far more amusing to impersonate Dominic and get the angels to take out other angels. Naturally the reason Kobal finds this amusing is that he is very much looking forwards to seeing the AA of judgement deal with Rivet when he is caught (they call it dark humour for a reason) -- he is quite happy to lose a decent servant in the cause of a minute or two of genuine amusement. He even offers to help cover his servants tracks (which he may or may not deliver on, depending on how amusing Rivet manages to be...) Rivet is rather less keen on this but... when your DP makes an itsy suggestion, a demon has to do what a demon has to do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:36:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: Roles (was Re: IN> Character idea: Rolemaker) [snip] This is a cool list. I'm going to pass it on to my players. > Role/6 -- *everything* about you will check out perfectly, no one would > ever suspect you are anyone other than who you appear to be. You can > withstand any amount of investigation by any mundane means, including > massive world-wide media attention. You could run for President. > All of the sudden I see a plot. Imagine a Balseraph of Factions running for President... or maybe it's already happened. :) (later... LATER!) Actually, I'm using something like this. Except I don't have a President, I have a TV Evangelist. Somehow, I think that's worse. Roles are great for fun AND profit. Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Computer Systems Consultant III Medical Center Information Technology Desktop Applications Team Current Quote: "Angels are just Demons not yet Fallen." - B. T. VandGrift ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:21:36 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Changing nature (was - Hire Purchase of Lilim) >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:10:08 -0400 >From: Elizabeth McCoy > >At 9:44 AM -0400 8/27/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > >>Superior swapping is _very_ rare! > >One presumes (hopes!) that celestials are generally happy with the >Word that created them! Which is why I think changing superiors (or attempting to) would be more common among angels who weren't directrly created by their Superiors (though still pretty damn rare). Angels created by other, non-Superior angels,by voluntarily splitting off their own forces and making a Reliever. Not being individually hand-crafted by the superior they serve, I see sucj angels as being less likely to be content in their positions overall. Of course, this would also make them more likely to Fall, by far the easiest way of switching Superiors. Presently, I'm playing an angel who was "born" of two servitors of Blandine, as a Releiver. "Dad" still works for Blandine, "Mom" Fell during World War II. Said angel did switch superiors, and thst's one of the rasons it took her 700 years to go from reliever to full-fledged angel. So there's the general stigma againstthose not Archangel-crafted, the superior-switching thing, and "Mom's" recent Fall counting against, and attracting the intermittent attention of Dominicans. That's the breaks, I guess.\|=) = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. Smoking or Non? ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:41:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. Speaks wrote: > This assumes Evolution in the In Nomine Universe. I would think > Creationism is more likely. The dinosaurs could be an "old earth" > theory or a trick of Lucifer's to help Science "debunk" God. On the other hand, I remember the IN book saying how it was easier to get God's attention back when life was simpler and the universe was a ball of compressed energy. This suggests buy-in to the Big Bang and consequent old-earth cosmology. For well over a hundred years, Christians and Jews have had many different schemes for reconciling the Genesis account with modern geology, cosmology, and biology. IN could fit in with several of them. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:01:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and Domestic Pets. Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Maybe it's a combination -- evolution, possibly for everything > *but* humans? So the celestials got to play around with dinosaurs > for a while, and then proto-humans appeared, and this was interesting, > so the Divine fast-forwarded some evolution and created a few > full homo sapiens to examine... Evolution/creation combinations I have encountered include: Divinely-directed: Adam was born of a just-barely-pre-human hominid. Spiritual: Adam was born as a pre-human hominid, but was given a human-calibre soul (a force added?) as a mature adult. Resurrectional: Adam was a pre-human hominid who died and was resurrected as the first human. "Narnia"-style: Adam was a pre-human hominid who was spiritually and physically transformed into the first full human. The role of celestials in all this is left wide-open. For instance, if Jordi is in charge of the animal creation, does he direct its evolution? Did he direct our evolution up to the creation of Adam and feel really, personally affronted by the Fall of humanity, it being his own project getting trashed? Did any diabolicals have a chance to throw bugs into our genetic code? Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:56:17 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Diabolical Dealings at Gen Con > >>It's one of the things you can buy from Jean -- "requires email > >>contact"... O;> > > > >Oooh - Bright Lilim resonances! I like it - it fits very well. Got > >any others? > > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/rules.html > #BrightLilimChoirAttunements I like it, but I have a couple of suggestions: David: Working stone? How about "A Lilim of Stone subtracts her Celestial Forces from a targets Will on any Geas where cooperation is the primary goal (GM discression)." Dominic: "Dominic's Lilim, which are few and far between, are his main vehicle of redemption. They can automatically sense the Need to be Redeemed in a Demon, Soldier of Hell, or Undead, if it is genuine." Gabriel: add ", and reduces the will (by an amount equal to her Celestial Forces) of a subject Geased for this purpose", after "...repent his cruelty". Jean: I like the idea you had a couple of messages back better. Something like "A Lilim may forego the eye-contact if she is communicating with the subject through a technological medium. A five minute phone conversation, or several long email messages from the person, are often enough to invoke the resonance. A Lilim of Jean gains reaction bonus equal to her Ethereal Forces when dealing with computer geeks (GM's discression)." Marc: I'd say if anyone entered into a legal agreement with the lilim, his ability to resist it would be reduced by the Lilim's Celestial Forces. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:49:39 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> New Drugs Walt Mazur wrote: > >What Choir is the Angel of Chocolate? Mercurian of Eli? > > Has to work for Novalis. Mercurian is a good thought but other > possibilities are: > Seraph: "The Most Holy" :) > Elohite: Chocolate calms people, making them less emotional. I would think chocolate inspires the emotion "pleasure." (though I realize that single word does not do the feeling justice;) An Elohite could indulge, but shouldn't make too many decisions under the influence.... > All in all, I think a Mercurian would be more interested in person-to- > person Words. My guess is an Elohite of Novalis has the Word Chocolate, > unless an angel of Marc got there first. Marc's angel would probably have the Word of Chocolate *bars*, referring to teh production and marketing of the stuff. .j. bcnu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:56:21 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) Hart, Joanna wrote: > Rivet, the demon knight of mistaken identity is a balseraph & loyal > servant of > Kobal. > > When he is ready, he makes his move (most likely to try to start with > Eli, as its unlikely that anyone would be able to summon the original) Eli's invocation roll can be relatively easy--the target number can be as large as 6, plus a max of +6 for a 12! (are invocation modifiers cumlative? i.e. 6 +1s = +6 ? if so, it could be even easier to summon Eli.) He visits his servitors all the time, granted not when they expect it, or on any regular basis, but more often than Janus, Michael or Yves... .j. bcnu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:14:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Changing nature (was - Hire Purchase of Lilim) At 7:21 AM -0500 8/28/97, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: >>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:10:08 -0400 >>From: Elizabeth McCoy >> >>At 9:44 AM -0400 8/27/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> >>>Superior swapping is _very_ rare! >> >>One presumes (hopes!) that celestials are generally happy with the >>Word that created them! > > Which is why I think changing superiors (or attempting to) would be >more common among angels who weren't directrly created by their Superiors >(though still pretty damn rare). Angels created by other, non-Superior >angels,by voluntarily splitting off their own forces and making a Reliever. >Not being individually hand-crafted by the superior they serve, I see sucj >angels as being less likely to be content in their positions overall. Of >course, this would also make them more likely to Fall, by far the easiest >way of switching Superiors. > > Presently, I'm playing an angel who was "born" of two servitors of >Blandine, as a Releiver. [...] I think we (our group, me, whatever) have been assuming Relievers are more free to flit about and work for different Superiors -- so a Reliever might do minor work in an Archangel's Cathedral for a while, see if the Word matched its temperment, drift around a little, and start getting sent on full Earth assignments (as a familiar or something) when it pledged formal loyalty to a Superior. Since we've been viewing Relievers as "baby angels," it seemed likely that even the Superiors would be relatively tolerant/understanding of one trying to find out where it fit in the Scheme of Things. Though one created by two Servitors of the same Word would probably retain that affinity. It's when you get cross-Word liasons that things start getting confusing for the poor little sprites. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:34:09 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) At 11:06 AM 8/28/97 +0100, you wrote: > >Rivet, the demon knight of mistaken identity is a balseraph & loyal >servant of >Kobal. > I like! Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:38:10 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases Yup, any Geas that they've pre-tested is safe. Takes extra time, leaves Discord visible to some celestials, has a lower Geas-level -- but is safe to invoke. Why should Lilim be the only ones to have Geas-conflicts slamming down on them unexpectedly? > How to soul kill a Malakite in two easy steps. If it was *that* easy, there wouldn't be any Malakim left. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:19:58 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Kyriotates... >> The tack I was taking with the Ofanim resonance >>was it involved moving the _Ofanim_. Swimming, Running, >>Driving, Climbing, etc all fit. Escape and Dodge barely >>do (you really don't go anywhere with these skills). >>Throwing does not. > >Self-movement, rather than moving other things. Escape and >Dodge both involve freedom of self-movement. Throwing doesn't >involve self-motion from point A to point B. > Just in the hopes of seeing John explode.... What about zero G situations where you throw something to give yourself velocity? Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:24:50 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases >However, that doesn't bar indirect trading. Take a free Lilim who has all >those Geas/3's to Lilith. She acquires a nice Geas/6 on an angel who was >about to get soul-killed. She's going to have trouble activating the Geas, >and beside, she doesn't really have a use for him. But she figures Lilith >does, so she invokes Lilith. The Geas/6 would be very useful to Lilith, so >Lilith agrees to release two of her Geas/3's if the Lilim will invoke the >Geas as Lilith instructs. Agreed. To help the Lilim activate the Geas/6, >Lilith loans her a Song of Charm Relic, a couple body guards, and grants >her a celestial force, with the understanding that if she fails, the force >gets taken back. > Well, if she's getting a Force in the deal she should only be able to get rid of one of her Geas/3's. Otherwise, I agree. > Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:03:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Will the real Elvis please stand up? (story seed) At 5:56 PM -0400 8/28/97, C. J. Hunter wrote: >Hart, Joanna wrote: > >> Rivet, the demon knight of mistaken identity is a balseraph & loyal >> servant of >> Kobal. >> > > > >> When he is ready, he makes his move (most likely to try to start with >> Eli, as its unlikely that anyone would be able to summon the original) > >Eli's invocation roll can be relatively easy--the target number can be as >large as 6, plus a max of +6 for a 12! (are invocation modifiers cumlative? NO! I think it says so, in the section on summoning Demon Princes. But you can use Essence, get lucky with a 6 (he happens to be in the area), and use Invocation modifiers... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:10:00 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Roles At 13:55 -0400 8/27/97, Walter Milliken wrote: > >Role/6 -- *everything* about you will check out perfectly, no one would > ever suspect you are anyone other than who you appear to be. You can > withstand any amount of investigation by any mundane means, including > massive world-wide media attention. You could run for President. > This gives me a good idea for a plot hook. Any of y'all ever watch "The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest"? Yesterday's episode had an alien that had gotten legally elected as vice-president - legally except for the fact that he was born on another planet. After finishing up some business on Earth, and in the process beating up on some MPs sent to arrest him and putting the general in charge of the mean nasty space defense program out of a job and into a mental hospital, he ascended to his "ride" up in space, and the government announced the death of the vice president. Other then the Quest group, only one government official remembered what happened... Now, which superior would be most likely to try to get an angel or a demon elected? Hmmm... (I'm thinking Impudite of Kobal, personally.) SeanMike - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:27:53 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases At 06:58 AM 8/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >On the various trading of Geas questions. I've been looking through the >rules and there are a only three ways of being subject to a geas so far > >A)The favours you owe for being a Free Lilim >B) Having a Lilim fufil a need for you >C) The Gm decides to subject you to one [It is not on the random list] > [...] >On a simplistic view the lilims geases are favours people owe her. If she >wants to trade them for some thing she is going to have to call those >favours in herself to get something the person she is trading with wants, >rather than passing them around like currency. I.E "Could you smneak my >friend here into the company's private party" rather than this is Eric , >you now owe him the favour you owed me. > >Lilith on the other hand can and does trade favours[which are then >inflicted as Geases] > This is the way I always saw it. It's less prone to loopholes than any other interpretation, I've seen, that doesn't totally take all the punch out of the Lilim. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #317 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.