From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Sep 1 09:08:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09627 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:08:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA00114 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:50:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:50:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199709011350.IAA00114@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #320 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, September 1 1997 Volume 01 : Number 320 In this digest: IN> RELICS CONTEST Update IN> Malakim Vows IN> Lilim Trackers Re: IN> Malakim Vows Re: IN> Lilim Trackers Re: IN> Lilim Trackers IN> Firing shots to signal for a couple canon Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? Re: IN> Firing shots to signal for a couple canon IN> Diana, Princess of Wales ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:54:28 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> RELICS CONTEST Update >>>Question: When will we know whether or not our entry made it?<<< Soon. I am in the process of editing the book now. Those whose entries will be included should be notified within the next month. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:54:26 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Malakim Vows >>>Uh uh. No donut. Malakim have a vow "to never suffer an evil to live", *not* to kill demons. Mind you, it *often* amounts to the same thing, except that it means Malakim are prone to kill evil humans just as often (or more so, since there are more of them around...). But a demon who isn't actively "evil" doesn't necessarily fall under a Malakite's vow.<<< I have to disagree. Demons may come in various shades of black, but they are the very definition of evil, at least the Malakim definition. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:54:25 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim Trackers >>>Well, Karakash has been wrong before... I dunno..I'm REALLY not liking this. (Enough to feel compelled to respond, anyway, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't geased into it...) Granting that they don't get the `extra' information, you do realize this makes Lilim better trackers than Djinn and Cherubs?<<< I tend to agree. Making Geases automatic tracers gives Lilim an extra power that is not in any way supported in the rulebook. I think they need to find their victims normally. So some of their victims will run and hide, and the Lilim may have to go to a lot of trouble to find them..... too bad. Professional assassins have the same problem. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:50:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Vows > >>>Uh uh. No donut. Malakim have a vow "to never suffer an evil to live", > *not* to kill demons. Mind you, it *often* amounts to the same thing, > I have to disagree. Demons may come in various shades of black, but they > are the very definition of evil, at least the Malakim definition. I still say it depends on their personal view and, perhaps even moreso, that of their Superior. (For the obvious examples, Lawrence definitely considers all demons evil; Novalis quite demonstrably doesn't. Dominic may consider some angels evil...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:50:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Trackers > On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:18:26 -0600 (MDT), Kingsley Lintz > >Djinn, at least, can only hold onto it for so long. A Lilim in this case > >can pick up a Need/1 from across the room, hold on to as many such hooks > But she does have to satisfy the need/1 before she has the hook and can > track him. I can think of a number of cases where an Need/1 would be easier to fulfill than walking up and touching the person would be...especially without the requirement that you actually have to clear the deal with the person, but even if you don't. (The vast majority of people are going to be a lot more comfortable with a minor exchange of favors with a stranger than having some weirdo walk up and TOUCH them in -ANY- way...even handshakes can be awkward if you're not in a setting where they're expected.) > Still, it might be a good thing to limit the Cherub tracking check digit > to the geas level. IOW, for need/1 you can't get better than direction. That would help, at least; I'd also limit the role to Celestial Forces + Geas Level, instead of Perception, since it's a secondary power like that. (Rather, I'd also suggest that for someone who wants to use this in a campaign without completely overrunning Cherubs and Djinn with it; personally, I'm happy letting the Song of Corporeal Attraction work and noting that a Cherub or Djinn can attune to a person through a Geas as a material link (probably only a -1 to the resonance roll, even)...which fulfils the reasons for it - making them somewhat trackable and noting a powerful way Asmodeus can keep tabs on Lilim trying to go Bright - but keeps Cherub and Djinn in their function without over-powering Lilim.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:52:49 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Trackers On Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:50:56 -0600 (MDT), Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:18:26 -0600 (MDT), Kingsley Lintz >> >Djinn, at least, can only hold onto it for so long. A Lilim in this case >> >can pick up a Need/1 from across the room, hold on to as many such hooks >> But she does have to satisfy the need/1 before she has the hook and can >> track him. > I can think of a number of cases where an Need/1 would be easier >to fulfill than walking up and touching the person would be... >> Still, it might be a good thing to limit the Cherub tracking check digit >> to the geas level. IOW, for need/1 you can't get better than direction. > That would help, at least; I'd also limit the role to Celestial >Forces + Geas Level, instead of Perception, since it's a secondary power >like that. ... >personally, I'm happy letting the Song of Corporeal Attraction work and >noting that a Cherub or Djinn can attune to a person through a Geas as a >material link (probably only a -1 to the resonance roll, even)...which >fulfils the reasons for it - making them somewhat trackable and noting a >powerful way Asmodeus can keep tabs on Lilim trying to go Bright - but >keeps Cherub and Djinn in their function without over-powering Lilim.) I think you make excellent points here. Perhaps if a Lilim wants to be sure she can track her Geas, she better buy the Song of Attraction--Celestial, I would think, Geases being Celestial in nature. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:53:21 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> Firing shots to signal for a couple canon On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:03:33 -0400, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>What about zero G situations where you throw something to give yourself >velocity?<<< > >I think that would be Acrobatics skill, not Throwing. "If I wasn't a gunner, I wouldn't be here. Starboard gun: Fire!" --gunners chant for timing signal guns Speaking of Acrobatics (p. 73), "The Acrobatics skill may sometimes be combined with Dodge (p. 74)." Under Dodge, "Acrobatics skill can be substituted for, or *added to,* any Dodge roll against non-projectile weapons..." Errata: "Dodge is based on Agility, Precision, or Perception depending on the type of combat (see p. 66). As things stand now, Acrobatics is based on Agility. Nothing prohibits its use in Ethereal combat (mental gymnastics?) or Celestial combat (aerobatics?), but it is still based on Agility in any of the three Realms. I think it might be better to either base it on Agility, Precision, or Perception, just like Dodge; or confine it to Corporeal Combat. "If I wasn't a gunner, I wouldn't be here. Port gun: Fire!" --gunners chant for timing signal guns Singing (p. 77) says, "...skill at Singing (unmodified by Emoting) enhances the effects of some Ethereal Songs." However, as far as I can tell, this is never backed up anywhere. I suggest, "The Singing skill can be added to skill of any Ethereal Song directed at a person or people present at the time of the Song. Thus, it would not be generally useful for the Ethereal Song of Form, and it not be useful at all for the Ethereal Songs of Motion, Projection or Shields." This parallels the Emote-Singing (p. 77) and Acrobatics-Dodge mechanics. Singing aided by emoting seems to have no particular value except entertainment. Perhaps instead of Emoting aiding Singing, Singing should aid Emoting, allowing singers to impart powerful emotions on their listeners. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:24:07 +1000 (EST) From: peterf@wr.com.au (Peter Frederick) Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? >> >>>Uh uh. No donut. Malakim have a vow "to never suffer an evil to live", >> *not* to kill demons. Mind you, it *often* amounts to the same thing, >> I have to disagree. Demons may come in various shades of black, but they >> are the very definition of evil, at least the Malakim definition. > I still say it depends on their personal view and, perhaps even >moreso, that of their Superior. (For the obvious examples, Lawrence >definitely considers all demons evil; Novalis quite demonstrably doesn't. >Dominic may consider some angels evil...) Thinking about this and the "Getting Malakim to fall with Geasa" idea. How do malakim of David sort out the situation where someone walks up and saysd "I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any way"???? What if it is 5 Demons? Do you get 5 Dissonance for not killing any of them, or just one? If you start the fight and hit each one before they hit you, or strike at each before they strike at you, depending on your interpretation, do you get 1 dissonance or 1 per first strike??? IMHO you have to get the Dissonance, but it is one for the whole lot if you dont attack them and 1 each for each one you preempt if you do attack. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:31:38 +1000 (EST) From: peterf@wr.com.au (Peter Frederick) Subject: Re: IN> Firing shots to signal for a couple canon Dear Walt and David >On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:03:33 -0400, David Edelstein > wrote: > >>>>>What about zero G situations where you throw something to give yourself >>velocity?<<< >> >>I think that would be Acrobatics skill, not Throwing. > >"If I wasn't a gunner, I wouldn't be here. Starboard gun: Fire!" > --gunners chant for timing signal guns > >Speaking of Acrobatics (p. 73), "The Acrobatics skill may sometimes be >combined with Dodge (p. 74)." Under Dodge, "Acrobatics skill can be >substituted for, or *added to,* any Dodge roll against non-projectile >weapons..." Errata: "Dodge is based on Agility, Precision, or Perception >depending on the type of combat (see p. 66). > >As things stand now, Acrobatics is based on Agility. Nothing prohibits its >use in Ethereal combat (mental gymnastics?) or Celestial combat >(aerobatics?), but it is still based on Agility in any of the three Realms. >I think it might be better to either base it on Agility, Precision, or >Perception, just like Dodge; or confine it to Corporeal Combat. As far as I can see you do this with all combat. Fighting covers it all, but you use the first stat in each realms pair when you are in that realm to attack and the second one to defend. Didn't this appear in the FAQ?? Any way it aseems reasonable to me. Not sure about taking dodge and Acrobatic over as well into Ethe and Cele combat, but you could. >Singing (p. 77) says, "...skill at Singing (unmodified by Emoting) enhances >the effects of some Ethereal Songs." However, as far as I can tell, this is >never backed up anywhere. I suggest, "The Singing skill can be added to >skill of any Ethereal Song directed at a person or people present at the >time of the Song. Thus, it would not be generally useful for the Ethereal >Song of Form, and it not be useful at all for the Ethereal Songs of Motion, >Projection or Shields." This parallels the Emote-Singing (p. 77) and >Acrobatics-Dodge mechanics. > >Singing aided by emoting seems to have no particular value except >entertainment. Perhaps instead of Emoting aiding Singing, Singing should >aid Emoting, allowing singers to impart powerful emotions on their >listeners. The "Sing adds to Songs" thing is a known error and I thought was in the FAQ, which I dont have on me if you can't tell. However I was tossing up an idea where the higher your singing was the more of the nuances of the Celestial tounge you could squeeze into your speach while in a Corporeal form. It is a part of my campaign that you lose a lot of precision of language trying to discuss Celestial thing in Corporeal languages, and this would lessen that loss. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 10:44:25 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> Diana, Princess of Wales ...And somewhere deep below, the Demon Prince of the Paparazzi must be grinning. :,,( ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #320 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.