From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Sep 2 10:49:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11452 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:49:44 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA32081 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:24:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:24:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199709021524.KAA32081@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #321 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 2 1997 Volume 01 : Number 321 In this digest: Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? IN> Some demon Ideas I had,,,, IN> Re: Malakim Vows - David?? Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? Re: IN> Diana, Princess of Wales IN> Malakim Vows Re: IN> Diana, Princess of Wales Re: IN> ghosts IN> Resisting Angelic Resonance IN> Lying Re: IN> ghosts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:21:15 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Roles Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > Now, which superior would be most likely to try to get an angel or > > a demon elected? Hmmm... > > Asmodeus, Malphas, Nybbas, or maybe Kronos. On the angelic side, > Eli, Marc, or maybe Yves. A Balseraph of Nybbas, for sure!! Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 10:18:40 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? At 02:24 PM 9/1/97 +1000, Peter Frederick wrote: >Thinking about this and the "Getting Malakim to fall with Geasa" idea. How >do malakim of David sort out the situation where someone walks up and saysd >"I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any way"???? I think it depends on the intent of the demon. Attempting to make a Malakim gain dissonance *IS* an attack. The Malakim would be justifed in attacking a demon who did this purposefully. Now if they actually didn't know the person they were talking to was a Malakim; they are just looking for some heavenly sanctuary and they picked a VERY bad target, the Malakim is in a bind. I would say he WOULD get dissonance unless he could provoke them to attack him. A GM who does this more than once should have his head squeezed into tomato paste, but for the group who likes moral delemmas (like me) it could be fun. Speaks There are few situations in life that cannot be resolved promptly, and to the satisfaction of all concerned, by either suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night. -- Ernest Bramah (Kai Lung stories) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:52:29 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Some demon Ideas I had,,,, More Demons (these are all as yet unstatted - I figured the ideas were more interesting than any stats would have been) -- these ones are servants of Fate Sprocket, Djinn of Time-Wasting The obsessively tidy Djinn has been alotted the task of locating creative minds that might otherwise have done great things and diverting them via totally pointless and timewasting tasks, hobbies and obsessions into the sidelines of life. He is an obsessive-compulsive and some of that rubs off on people he touches or attunes to; soon they will begin to devote their lives to building models of the Empire State Building out of used matches, designing the ultimate TQM (total quality management) documentation and filing systems or breaking the World Record for the number of storeys ever built into a house of cards. Before long his victims lose all sight of the fact that the task is basically pointless and it becomes the sole driving force of their existences. They meet with their fates. Jamal the Faceless, (Balseraph Baron of Enigmatic Philosophy) Known as 'the faceless' as he often uses his mastery of the celestial song of form to mould the faces of his vessels into emotionless masks, underneath the hood and robes which are his usual attire. His role is often as a Buddhist monk or guru of some description, but his brand of Zen is littered with Koans that really are meaningless, or that when unravelled will lead the interpreter closer to the encroaching jaws of his Fate. He has servants within the mystical side of many major religions and occult societies; whenever anyone is offering enigmatic knowledge, insights into the true secrets of the universe etc etc there is a fair bet that at least one of his servants will be involved (or will have been at some time in the past). Carrie, Habbalah of Failed Diets (I wondered if this one should go under Haagenti but figured in the end that failed diets were more to do with self-image and lack of willpower than food). Carrie is a Habbalah with a mission, and its a mission that has taken her to stardom (or at least one of her roles as is a famous TV doctor). She locates people who have made a decision to try to take control of their lives by dieting and uses her emotional resonance to fill them with despair and self-loathing when those resolutions get broken. She has servants who write slimming books and devise excercise plans, full of impossibly difficult regimes -- she has an unusually good relationship with Nybbas and with certain of his servitors who ensure that thin men and women are staring out of every advertising in the country (world, even). She has high hopes of progressing within the lowerarchy, and has proven time and time again that something as seemingly simple as a failed diet can be the first teetering step in a mortals loss of self-confidence and long fall towards their final Fate. She may be responsible for more personal misery than any other demon in hell :) (and one for Mammon who hasn't been detailed yet but I think is to be the DP of money?) Agne, Lilim of Chequebook Journalism As she explains to the proprieters and editors with whom she has to deal in her major role as the negotiator for many hotshot freelance photographers, all she wants to do is make sure that 'the public gets what the public wants'. You can have the pictures that will sell your papers and make everyone happy, really you can, and all you have to do is pay a fair price. A fair price? Well, its more than anyone else is willing to pay --- you DID want an exclusive, right? Well, maybe that'll cost you just a little bit more... she explains it to the photographers as well. She has an offer just waiting on the table, all you have to do is get the shots, now how hard can that be...? jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ E = A cos (omega T + phi ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 13:19:46 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Malakim Vows - David?? >Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:24:07 +1000 (EST) >From: peterf@wr.com.au (Peter Frederick) >Thinking about this and the "Getting Malakim to fall with Geasa" idea. How >do malakim of David sort out the situation where someone walks up and saysd >"I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any way"???? > You tell your Friendly Neighborhood gang member servants to "Kick His Ass." Now, if the Demon attacks any one of them, you are free to join in. You didn't start the fight, you reccomended to your friends that they do so, you're just joining in. Some mental gymnastics there, most Malakim probably won't stoop to that, unless it's very important. Barring that, you could follow the demon around and thwart his schemes untill he gets ticked off and gets people to attack you. I see 'Thou shalt not suffer an Evil to Live" toallow a Malakite not to instantly attack a demon on sight, if he's working dilligently to do so in the future. Which makes it a lot harder to make Malakim Fall. "Fine. For the next hour, you can do your little Dance of Evil around me. Keep in mind, though, that the very second this hour is up, I'm going to hunt down, kill, and force-strip every one of you sorry-ass Demons. That Includes you, Little Miss Lilim." [On the flip side, it's easier to makea Mercurian fall. "Punch eight different humans." Or a Seraph. "Repeat 'I am a wooden parrot' eight times".] >What if it is 5 Demons? Do you get 5 Dissonance for not killing any of >them, or just one? If you start the fight and hit each one before they hit >you, or strike at each before they strike at you, depending on your >interpretation, do you get 1 dissonance or 1 per first strike??? 1 dissonance, if it can be considered one fight. So, if they're all in the same room, and none of them leave while you're kicking the ass of the first one, feel free to beat up the rest. No waiting five hours and going after the rest. Freferably punch each one of them before any one of them goes down, but if you have to chase any of them down, when you catch them, it's a new fight. Prudent Demons will either gang up on you, or run once the fighting starts. = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. Smoking or Non? ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:30:34 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? >At 02:24 PM 9/1/97 +1000, Peter Frederick wrote: > >>Thinking about this and the "Getting Malakim to fall with Geasa" idea. How >>do malakim of David sort out the situation where someone walks up and saysd >>"I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any way"???? > My personal thought is that the Malakite would be justified in acting to provoke first blow on the demon's part. Insult his Prince, insult him, pick him up by the scruff of the neck and carry him to the town jail, tip a bowl of washing-water over him, ask your helpful gang to mount an assault, threaten to be about to report him to the nearest Servitors of the Game.. I would expect a Malakite of David to be inventive on the subject. "Ah. You hit me. _Thank_ you." Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:29:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Vows - David?? > Thinking about this and the "Getting Malakim to fall with Geasa" idea. How > do malakim of David sort out the situation where someone walks up and saysd > "I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any way"???? I suspect they slug the demon in the nose, and the next time they see David, they explain, "This demon walked up and said, `I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any way', so I had to hit him first." David waves his hand, removing the Dissonance, with a commisserating grimace, repling, "Ooh, I hate when that happens.." (On a more serious note, I have to agree with Speaks; trying to force Dissonance qualifies as starting a fight, at least as far as that's concerned; if the demon is doing it `innocently', however - or even just obnoxiously, not knowing who the MoD is but being snide in general - the Malakim is probably in trouble.) > What if it is 5 Demons? Do you get 5 Dissonance for not killing any of > IMHO you have to get the Dissonance, but it is one for the whole lot if you > dont attack them and 1 each for each one you preempt if you do attack. I'd actually interpret that quite the inverse; it's five evil's you'd be letting live, but only one fight you'd be starting. However, I'd really say you still only get 1 Dissonance for the whole thing. One for attacking still because it's only one fight; remember, David thinks in terms of groups, so that should be cool. And only one in both cases because Dissonance is an internal thing, and essentially, the DECISION is made only once by the Malakim. (eg. he says, "Alright, David didn't expect this, let's rumble." He leaps at them and feels a twang of Dissonance. Alternatively, he sighs, "Much as I'd like to whack these twits, David says to let them go unless they swing first.." He feels a twang of Dissonance at the violation of his Oath, but while it's five demons, it's still only one violation...he doesn't sit there going, "Okay, I won't attack him, I won't attack him, I won't attack her, I won't attack him, and I won't attack her," picking up Dissonance at each choice.) {On a contrarian note, if he had another Oath that applied, I'd count it double. Eg. if he specifically swore to Obey his Superior, then he'd be violating David's rule AND his oath, and that's two points.} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:15:16 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Diana, Princess of Wales > ...And somewhere deep below, the Demon Prince of the Paparazzi > must be grinning. The really sad thing is, I can see Nybbas doing this as a calculated sacrifice. The paparazzi and the media take a whack, and people might try to root out some of the bad elements, but her positive effect is removed. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "O Lord, protect me from those to whom You speak directly." - Arrowblue@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:49:24 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Malakim Vows In reply to: > I still say it depends on their personal view and, perhaps even >moreso, that of their Superior. (For the obvious examples, Lawrence >definitely considers all demons evil; Novalis quite demonstrably >doesn't. Dominic may consider some angels evil...) >Thinking about this and the "Getting Malakim to fall with Geasa" idea. >How do malakim of David sort out the situation where someone walks up >and saysd "I'm a Demon, but I'm not going to attack you in any >way"???? IMO, they're going to get a note of dissonance anyway (by attach\king first or by letting an evil live), so they'd probably tear the creature apart. When David asks why they have the dissonance, they explain and he frowns but does nothing about it. Of course, if the GM is kind, they'd probably interpret a superior's dissonance conditions as falling under the 'if it the malakite's choice' part of the oath. Therefore they could quite happily not kill the demon until it attacked, because their Superior told them not to. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:16:22 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Diana, Princess of Wales Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > The really sad thing is, I can see Nybbas doing this as a calculated > sacrifice. The paparazzi and the media take a whack, and people > might try to root out some of the bad elements, but her positive > effect is removed. And the Princess was doing too much good to be left on her own... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 22:09:45 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> ghosts Shadowcat wrote: > I just thought of something. How are ghosts treated in In Nomine? Those human souls who still have some business to accomplish on the Corporeal Plane got stuck in The Marches - they become Ethereal Spirits. Those who have fulfilled her objectives, go to higher planes of the Celestial Plane. So, I think your Lost Soul can be treated as an Ethereal Spirit - book your copy of The Marches!! Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:00:33 GMT From: dsarrazin@cyberus.ca (Denis Sarrazin) Subject: IN> Resisting Angelic Resonance Hi, In the book, they say "On the other hand, the passive nature of agnelic resonance makes it difficult to detect." They don't say impossible, but difficult. Is there any rules that describe this "difficulty" that I missed? The reason I'm asking is because I have one angel trying to use his resonance on another angel and I'd like to know if the other angel can try or not to resists this. I know that Demonic resonance (except for Lilim, I believe) can be resisted as a Will contest, but that this is not supposed to apply to angelic resonance. Thanks, Denis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:57:16 GMT From: dsarrazin@cyberus.ca (Denis Sarrazin) Subject: IN> Lying Well, one of my player had an interesting question regarding the Lying skill and Detect Lies skill. Here it is: Lying p.76 says that "the victim is free to make a Detect Lies roll, minus the successful roll's check digit." The next sentence implies that a successful Detect Lies roll results in the lie being recognized, because it calls for "an immediate reaction roll." OTOH, Detect Lies p.74 doesn't mention the liar's check digit as a modifier to the Detect Lies roll. But it does say that "The check digit of the successful Detect Lies roll must be higher than the check digit of the liar's successful Lying roll." Requiring the victim's check digit to be higher than the liar's check digit means (in the case of simple d6 vs d6 check digits) there is less than a 42% chance of detecting a lie despite a successful Detect Lie roll. And applying both rules further diminishes the positive results of the skill. What are the proper game mechanics here? Also the wording in the last sentence of Detect Lies p.74 seems faulty. Shouldn't it read "When someone MAKES a Detect Lies roll ... (with the check digit of the SUCCESSFUL roll ...." After all, if the Detect Lies roll fails, then the listener has no reason not to trust him. Anyone one have any thought on this? Thanks, Denis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> ghosts > > > > I just thought of something. How are ghosts treated in In Nomine? > > Those human souls who still have some business to accomplish on the > Corporeal Plane got stuck in The Marches - they become Ethereal Spirits. > Those who have fulfilled her objectives, go to higher planes of the > Celestial Plane. > Or to Hell, presumably. And the million dollar question is...can Bad ghosts be Saved? That is, can a ghost headed for one destination use its unlife to change direction? If so, it doesn't seem fair on the other dead who got one chance only. If not, it should make it hard for Angels to get rid of ghosts - they would be sending most of them straight to Hell. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #321 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.