From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Sep 4 17:36:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15094 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:36:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA02391 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:36:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:36:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199709042136.QAA02391@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #325 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 325 In this digest: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence Re: IN> Celestial Plane Questions Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: Chocolate Fluff (Re: IN> New Drugs) Re: IN> ghosts Re: IN> Celestial Plane Questions Re: IN> Night Music rules change Re: IN> Lilim Trackers Re: IN> Lilith's Potence Re: IN> Lilith's Potence Re: IN> Lilith's Potence IN> Motel 666 (the final chapter) IN> Lilith's Potence Re: IN> A Marches thought... IN> Lilith's Potence IN> KYD addenda -- Furfur IN> KTE addenda -- Christopher IN> KYD addenda -- Fleurity Re: IN> KTE addenda -- Christopher IN> Putting Discord on Celestials Re: IN> ghosts Re: IN> ghosts Re: IN> Lilith's Potence IN> (well, IN-ish) SkreechCaps alert! Re: Gaming War Stories (Re: IN> Lilim Geases) Re: IN> Celestial Plane Questions Re: IN> Lilim Geases ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:18:54 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence > >Oh, that one's easy. Have Lilith appear just after the Seneschal gets > >toasted. Mad as Hell, she rears back to slap the angel into its component > >forces -- and stops herself an inch from the angel's face. The angel, > >expecting to be zapped, breathes a silent "thank you", only to have > >Lilith reply with, "You're welcome. Now you owe me one. Payback will > >consist of guarding this tether until I find another Seneschal." > > I like it, I like it... I'll have to remember that one... > It's fulfilling a Need. (Frozen in place by the Superior's Power, > make a Will roll to avoid wanting to survive. Add +1 if you're an > Elohite. If you're a Malakite, you'll just have to kill yourself > afterwards.) Ah, ah, ah. I would NOT allow a Lilim to get a Geas by NOT doing something _to the victim_. I've always ruled that you have to actively do something to fulfill a Need. For example, you wouldn't be able to put a gun to someone's head and read their Need for you not to pull the trigger. On the other hand, you could toss them out a window and offer to pull them back in where they are dangling by their fingertips. }=) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:13:04 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Plane Questions On Sep 3, 7:28pm, Kim Foster wrote: > Subject: IN> Celestial Plane Questions > I hope this hasn't been beaten to death before I joined the list but I've > been having some trouble with these two things. > > First, What does Celestial combat "look" like. I mean how do you describe it > with out resorting to game mechanics. A Ofanim using A numious Corpus, say > horns in the celestial form looks like.....a big wheel of fire with horns > for example? > > Second, Discords are "bruttally apparent" in celestial form. How so? Is it a > modification or new feature added to your celestial form, a "change" that > only Celestial perceptions would notice and can't be described with the > normal human senses or a little sign floating above you saying "Angry/3" or > whatever. :) These things are up to the descriptive powers and imagination of the GM. (tah-dah!) ;) Seriously, though, I mean exactly that. The being _looks_ different in ways that celestials can comprehend and we limited mortals cannot. As a human GM (at least I'm assuming that...) you have to be creative and come up with an image that conveys the discords in ways that your human players (another assumption...) can understand and empathize with. So Geases commonly show up as chains, anger might be an 'angry red nimbus', Fearful celestials forms might be smaller and cower a lot, etc. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:55:09 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? On Sep 2, 2:15pm, Jeff Miller wrote: > Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > >> Right, but at short range, suppose you have an average human precision of 4 > >> and a moderate skill of 4. Add the accuracy of 6: 4+4+6=14=12+2, automatic > >> success with +2 on the check digit, -1 for the power, for an average damage > >> of 4.5, same as +1 power and an automatic hit, reasonable, I think for a > >> shotgun--no missing, just varying degrees of damage. A reasonably skilled > >> human might be 5+5+6=12+4-1, 6.5 average damage, equal to a .44--he's > >> skilled enough to get the target in the full blast. > > > > The problem is that if an UNSKILLED person with a low precision > >hits you with a shotgun, it's not going to wing you. It's going to > >blow a hole in you. > > An unskilled person is *more* likely to wing you than blow a hole in you. > It's the spread of the shot that makes the shotgun the weapon of choice for > unskilled shooters. You're more likely to get hit by the edge of the blast > since the guy isn't very good at aiming. Though he might get lucky. It's > much easier to hit someone with a cone of shot 1 to 3 feet in diamiter than > a bullet 1/4 to 1/2 inches across. However, unless you place that shot > well, you won't do very much damage. The rationale behind a very skilled person doing more damage (higher check digit) is that they can precisely place where the bullet is going to go. This matters a little less with a shotgun but trust me when I say that it is difficult to do a moderate amount of damage with a shotgun. If you are hit at all, the odds are it is going to be a solid hit. Let's take a looksee at what a high accuracy, low power shotgun rule would do... A low skill person could never do any real damage: unrealistic. A moderate skill person _might_ get a couple of extra points: unrealistic. A high skill person would get a moderate bonus: unrealistic. The first example is damning enough... the low skill person can _never_ get good damage. Ever. This is not how shotguns work in the real world! An unskilled person wielding a shotgun is likely to do ugly amounts of damage if they hit at all. A 'wing' means the person rolled a '1' on their check digit. Shotgun shells have more metal and more gunpowder... there's just more damage being handed out! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:21:34 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: Chocolate Fluff (Re: IN> New Drugs) > >>*White* chocolate? Clearly Vapulan... > > > >Hey, *I* like the stuff! > > HERETIC!! > > >Why Vapulan? > > It's usually a perverse technological replacement for *real* chocolate. I > quote from the rec.food.chocolate FAQ: > > >White chocolate is somewhat of a misnomer. In the United States, in order > >to be legally called 'chocolate' a product must contain cocoa solids. White > >chocolate does not contain these solids, which leaves it a smooth ivory or > >beige color. Real white chocolate is primarily cocoa butter, sugar, milk > >and vanilla. There are some products on the market that call themselves > >white chocolate, but are made with vegetable oils instead of cocoa butter. > >Check the label to avoid these cheap imitations. White chocolate is the > >most fragile form of chocolate; pay close attention to it while heating or > >melting it. Mmmmmmm.... cocoa butter *drooool* - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:59:41 -0400 () From: Greg Subject: Re: IN> ghosts > > Dead humans that don't get a new body or go onto their > 'final' reward become Corporeal Spirits. 'Ghosts', at least for > now, is a indistinct term created by humans to describe a number > of apparitions. It could be a celestial, ethereal or corporeal > spirit. Or it could just be their imagination or swamp gas! ;) > There is an essential difference between corporeal, > ethereal and celestial beings and one type cannot be converted > to another. > This is probably in the book, but what do once-mortal souls in Heaven and Hell counts as? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:44:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Plane Questions Concerning the appearance of combat and discord on the celestial plane: You could borrow a page from the Theosophists and use auras a lot. (It works for Katherine Kurtz's Deryni.) We all "know" angels have haloes, right? Discord might show up in atypical coloring or streaks or sparks or little lightining bolts or wisps of smoke in the celestial's aura. Combat might be done with colorful bolts of lightning and showers of disney-dust. That way, the physical shape of the celestial doesn't get in the way, and Ofanim and Kyriotates are more on the same footing as the more bio-morphic celestials. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 13:26 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Night Music rules change >> 3) How many Body Hits does it take to kill a non-Human Mortal? (i.e. >> negative BH's)? Strength? > > There are no non-human mortals (in this context). Animals? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 13:19 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Trackers >> Well, Karakash has been wrong before... > > Lies, foul lies! It wasn't me! I wasn't even there! You >can't prove nothin'! That's a dangerous thing to say when the Archangel of Archives is listening. At least she's not a Seraph.... > Two things, though. They can only do it once per Geas because >they are _required_ to use up the Geas once they activate it in this >way. Those darn Cherubs and Djinn can follow you around for a long, >long time. Quite true. So what's the other thing...? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 13:24 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence > Ah, ah, ah. I would NOT allow a Lilim to get a Geas by >NOT doing something _to the victim_. I've always ruled that you have to >actively do something to fulfill a Need. For example, you wouldn't be able >to put a gun to someone's head and read their Need for you not >to pull the trigger. On the other hand, you could toss them >out a window and offer to pull them back in where they are dangling >by their fingertips. }=) Then there's what Andre's Lilim do.... So, it's OK to generate a Need, and then fulfill it, as long as fulfilling it involves doing something? So no "blackmail Needs". Hmmm... Aleamon's Lilim are an exception to this, if they use their Choir Attunement. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:38:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Ah, ah, ah. I would NOT allow a Lilim to get a Geas by > NOT doing something _to the victim_. I've always ruled that you have to > actively do something to fulfill a Need. For example, you wouldn't be able > to put a gun to someone's head and read their Need for you not > to pull the trigger. On the other hand, you could toss them > out a window and offer to pull them back in where they are dangling > by their fingertips. }=) Sounds like little more than a semantic difference to me. Both cases involve heavy-handed manipulation of someone under duress. Why is one acceptable and the other is not? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:29:29 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence At 11:29 04/09/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:17:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: Casca > >On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, David Edelstein wrote: > >> Geases are imposed for fulfilling a Need. She had to sense the angel's Need >> "to survive" in order to pull that off. > >I don't see why this shouldn't work. I mean, why can't angels have >survival instincts too? > So the question is, is an individual angel's need to survive going to outweigh its need to serve its superior devotedly and follow its own theme in the symphony? I can see them trying to escape or to call on their own superiors to help them, but if all else fails I suspect they are expected to bite the bullet , look up at the demon princess and just say 'I won't accept that. Kill me now.' They may well have a need to survive but I think loyalty to the cause is expected to outweigh these selfish desires :) I suspect that if it doesn't, the servitors of judgement might have come calling some day or other. This way they'll come sooner rather than later. Evidently this won't work if the angel has the fear discord... jo (OK, call me callous but I tend to see angels as not being terribly subject to human fears and doubts). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:00:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Motel 666 (the final chapter) [The series is now complete, Beth. (Of course, if you use this next one in your campaign, feel free to substitute some other media object for Thriller Theatre -- say, _The Sun Also Sets_.)] Margali here one last time for Motel 666. We don't offer those expensive cable channels like HBO, Cinemax or ESPN. All we've got is Thriller Theatre 24 hours a day. And if that's not Hell, what is? We're Motel 666 -- and Glen, when you lock up, put out the goat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:22:54 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilith's Potence >>> Besides, Archangel Beth agrees with me, so there. ;P <<< Well, ask Archangel Beth how much weight that carries with me. >>>Well, she's got to have a reason to appear in a bloodthirsty mood. Her word is Freedom, not Extortion.<<< I'm just saying I thought the example was a little spurious. Not completely impossible, but it rubbed me the wrong way. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:54:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: Re: IN> A Marches thought... On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, at 11:34:57 EDT, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 11:39 AM -0500 9/2/97, Austin George Loomis wrote: [...] >>Has it occurred to anyone else that maybe giving a Cherub the Word of >>Fear wasn't the brightest possible idea, given that Fear is the Discord >>that counts as dissonance for Cherubim? > >That was a long time ago, though... They probably didn't know >any better then. Nobody knew angels *could* Fall. Point taken. ("Remember, youth -- any fool can predict the past.") Thank you, whichever Servitor of Destiny that was. >Besides, it >was the Fear that, when faced, makes one stronger. > That makes sense. But judging from what Blandine's expanded write-up has to say about what drove the lovers apart, it must have done *some* devouring of Beleth's guts (or celestial equivalent thereof). >Now it's the Fear that cripples. :~( > *sigh* Something like that, no doubt. 8-( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:22:55 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilith's Potence >>>I'm on the side of most Superiors being *very* powerful. But, I think they have implicit limits. They act through servitors because acting directly would too greatly disturb the Symphony they're all trying to get to play in their favor: if it collapses into cacaphony they've all lost. So, while Lilith *could* drop as many Geases or any other discords as she wanted on anyone, she doesn't because it would be counter productive.<<< You'd have to add rules about Superior intervention causing negative consequences. It's an interesting thought, but definitely not canonical. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:00:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> KYD addenda -- Furfur Know Your Diabolicals (series created by Elizabeth McCoy) A young angel's guide to the Fallen and their masters. Addenda -- Furfur (It may be premature to write this, but the adventure provides very few ways in which the Demon of Hardcore can be definitively prevented from attaining Prince status.) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #1: As delivered by a Servitor of Dreams "They live to destroy people's hopes. Menunite help can get the human's dreamscape back to our side of the Marches." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #2: As delivered by a Servitor of Stone "The ideal opponents for us -- they practically *have* to strike first, and they can't hold back." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #3: As delivered by a Servitor of Judgment "More of a threat to vessels than to the souls within them, but they can break the spirits of Soldiers by convincing them the War is a waste of time -- Heaven help us all if ever they do the same to an angel." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #4: As delivered by a Servitor of Creation "Just plain bummers." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #5: As delivered by a Servitor of Fire "From preliminary reports, it seems that Elohim and Kyriotates have the best chances to spot demons of Hardcore. They serve destruction -- give them what they serve." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #6: As delivered by a Servitor of the Wind "There's a fine line between shaking people's thinking and just breaking their spirits. These bozos want to erase that line. I vote we erase *them* first." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #7: As delivered by a Servitor of Lightning "They provide the opposite of inspiration. Pull the plug on them." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #8: As delivered by a Servitor of Animals "Vicious, unnatural creatures. Give them the fight they're itching for. Remember, killing them doesn't solve anything, but it keeps them out of your fur while you decide what to do next." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #9: As delivered by a Malakite of the Sword "With time, the Servitors of Hardcore may become worthy opponents. As it stands, they are a nuisance, but one with which we must contend as we find it." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #10: As delivered by a Mercurian of Trade "His sort have always been more interested in *taking* what they want than paying a fair price for it." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #11: As delivered by a Servitor of War "Good for a scrap when you need to work off some tension. They can't back down any more than we or Baal's crew can." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #13: As delivered by a Servitor of Destiny "Only time will tell whether Hell's newest Prince becomes a true threat or remains merely a nuisance." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #14: As delivered by a Servitor of Revelation "They use the truth as a weapon. Feel free to return the favor." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Austin "Rock on!" Loomis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:56:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> KTE addenda -- Christopher Know the Enemy (series created by Elizabeth McCoy) A comprehensive course for young demons, in determining the strengths and weaknesses of The Enemy. Addenda -- Christopher - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #1: As delivered by a Balseraph of Lust (telling the truth for once) "Personally, I say child molestation is a waste of time -- they're too young to really understand what's being done to them, and there's a good chance it'll make them grow up to *hate* sex, which puts them out of our reach. Still, some of our team -- especially Shedim -- practically swear by it. Use your own judgment." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #2: As delivered by a Servitor of the Game "Seldom a danger to morale, but a pronounced risk. Keep Servitors and children alike away from Suspects -- especially from Suspects in juvenile vessels -- lest they become hopelessly tainted by Enemy ideology." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #3: As delivered by a Servitor of the War "Tactically insignificant." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #4: As delivered by a Servitor of Nightmares "A child is the ultimate toy. Servitors of Lynoure, this is what the Word of Shadow Shapes is all about." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #5: As delivered by a Servitor of Fire "Ah, there's nothing like the fresh-faced innocence of kids out playing with matches..." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #6: As delivered by a Servitor of Gluttony "Mmm...candy. Cookies! Soda!! *Sugary cereals!!* I hope you brought enough for everyone!" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #7: As delivered by a Servitor of Dark Humor "Still POed over the whole Children's Crusade thing. Honestly, some folks just *can't* take a joke..." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #8: As delivered by a Servitor of Fate "It is never too early to begin leading a child on the proper path. The accursed Yves recognized it when he took Christopher underwing; we must acknowledge it as well." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #9: As delivered by a Servitor of Factions "Use your attunements. Polarize the playgrounds, for starters. Just remember -- it's never too late to have an unhappy childhood!" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #10: As delivered by a Servitor of the Media "Depict similar types as sour-mouthed Puritan oldsters. Win the hearts and minds of the next generation away by making the villains *cooler* than the heroes. Now you know, and knowing is half the mandatory `edu- cational content' segment (another thing we have these killjoys to thank for)." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #11: As delivered by a Servitor of Death "Good rite-fodder. They say the good die young, right? Help Chris' boys keep that in mind." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #12: As delivered by a Servitor of Theft "Teach 'em a little shoplifting, a little filching from the cookie jar, and you're halfway there, y'know?" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #13: As delivered by a Habbalite of Technology "This pressure group often uselessly bemoans the passing of older, less engineered forms of entertainment." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #14: As delivered by a Daughter of Lilith "There's almost nothing most kids Need enough to get a really high-level Geas -- and even if you do spot a Need like that, you might find yourself racing with an Elohite of Children to see who fills that Need first." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #[You're not cleared for that]: As delivered by a Servitor of Secrets "There's nothing in the corporeal realm that gives one quite the same feeling of accomplishment as the look in the eyes of a child with some- thing to hide." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Austin George "Now, what Choir is Hobbes?" Loomis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:58:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> KYD addenda -- Fleurity Know Your Diabolicals (series created by Elizabeth McCoy) A young angel's guide to the Fallen and their masters. Addenda -- Fleurity - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #1: As delivered by a Servitor of Dreams "Some of the concoctions he offers can shut a mortal out of the Marches completely. If one of your dreamers is trapped on Beleth's side and you can't get him free any other way, this is *almost* forgiveable. Any other time, it's not worth it. Be particularly aware of compounds that can *trap* a dreamer in the Marches -- the longer he's shut out of the waking world, the greater the chances his dreamscape will drift to Beleth's side on its own." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #2: As delivered by a Servitor of Stone "Increase patrols outside crack houses and shooting galleries. Sooner or later, they'll get paranoid enough to start something." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #3: As delivered by a Servitor of Judgment "While more interested in corrupting mortals, these Servitors may take an interest in an angel who becomes addicted to Earthly substances." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #4: As delivered by a Servitor of Creation "If he'd just be content with natural highs, and if he didn't turn them into a tool of damnation, I could almost like the guy. But then, if he *could* be content with them, I guess he'd have been an Elohite. If you can Transubstantiate, my advice is to turn the hard stuff into something harmless, or nearly so, before it gets out to the street." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #5: As delivered by a Servitor of Fire "Almost any Choir has a chance to detect them, but Seraphim, Elohim and the occasional Kyrio have the highest success rates, and Mercurians will sometimes find a Servitor of Drugs among a patient's connections." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #6: As delivered by a Servitor of the Wind "Bill Burroughs said that when you stop growing, you start dying. *That* was sensible, but then he said that an addict never stops growing, which is obvious BS. Maybe someone in a perpetual kick-and-relapse cycle, like old Bill Lee himself, never stops growing, but even that can turn into stasis. The ones that get you going can be useful, but drugs, just in general, are traps." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #7: As delivered by a Servitor of Lightning "A woefully inadequate substitute for true inspiration, and an example of the abuse received by ideas in diabolical hands." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #8: As delivered by a Servitor of Animals "Typical human decadence. Not generally our concern. Report them to other angels and go on about your business." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #9: As delivered by a Malakite of the Sword "The Prince of Drugs does more to advance the infernal cause in a day than many another Prince can achieve in a year. His particular service to Saminga makes him especially repugnant. Strike down his Servitors wherever situate." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #10: As delivered by a Mercurian of Trade "They make free trade almost as much of a bad joke as Nybbas' lot do. Free trade is about giving value for value, dash it all -- not a cheap holiday in other people's misery!" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #11: As delivered by a Servitor of War "The glassy-eyed sock-puppet on Saminga's rotting hand. Not really a high priority, but if they're dumb enough to start something, you may as well finish it." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #13: As delivered by a Servitor of Destiny "Though he rose in Haagenti's service, Fleurity has made himself a tool of Kronos, enticing humans to *choose* Fate over Destiny. Thwart these Servitors at every opportunity." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #14: As delivered by a Servitor of Revelation "They tell us things about ourselves that we may not wish to know, but we must face them, and help mortals face them, head-on. We must also unmask the Servitors of Drugs for what they are -- Friends of the Quest and Masters of Discovery will have advantages in tracking them to their squalid lairs." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Austin "Selling is more of a habit than using" Loomis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:56:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> KTE addenda -- Christopher > Austin George "Now, what Choir is Hobbes?" Loomis I'd say Elohite, given the constant critique he offers of Calvin's harebrained ideas. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:22:57 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Putting Discord on Celestials >>>If it were true brainwashing in the sense of having a mole, yes. But inflicting Discords isn't really all *that* effective, in my opinion. Yes, you can make the celestial's life get screwed up, but I *really* don't buy the "better than killing thousands" aspect. Maybe a couple times more effective, yes. But a *thousand*??<<< If you can Geas someone to find out where his Archangel's key Earthly Servitors are? To betray his own side at a crucial point? To go flying back to Heaven and start hiding angelic Hearts? I can think of all kinds of ways that a single infernal double-agent among the angels could do enough damage to significantly alter the course of the War. >>>And if it takes more time and effort than just killing people, is it worth it?<<< Yes. And some have been proposing that it *doesn't* take more time and effort than killing people (Lilith shows up: "Hi angel, I just put a bunch of Geas/6s on you. You're mine.") >>>Especially if the effect is unpredictable and can be cured by the victims Superior at least as easily as you added it?<<< So Geas him to avoid his Superior. It's not foolproof, but it's still way powerful. >>>I don't buy this as a "killer trick", though I agree it needs to be hard enough that Superiors can't just point their fingers and people and say, "Bang! You've got Discord X/6"....<<< It needs to be hard enough that it's rarely, if ever done. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:41:33 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> ghosts On Sep 4, 11:59am, Greg wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> ghosts > > > > > > Dead humans that don't get a new body or go onto their > > 'final' reward become Corporeal Spirits. 'Ghosts', at least for > > now, is a indistinct term created by humans to describe a number > > of apparitions. It could be a celestial, ethereal or corporeal > > spirit. Or it could just be their imagination or swamp gas! ;) > > There is an essential difference between corporeal, > > ethereal and celestial beings and one type cannot be converted > > to another. > > > This is probably in the book, but what do once-mortal souls in Heaven and > Hell counts > as? Corporeal souls with a new address. ;) They are _not_ angels/demons. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:29:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> ghosts > > There's always the reincarnation option -- a "bad ghost" who is > busy repenting might get reincarnated for another go 'round. > (After all, the premise is that they didn't fulfill destiny or > fate, right? That's why they're a ghost in the first place. If > they manage both, then reincarnation would probably help too.) > > If a ghost manages to hit Destiny and *not* Fate, then it'll > be Upward Bound. If it got Fate, then it goes down. > > Or so I'd rule. > Your ruling makes perfect sense, but I wouldn't use it for two "feel" reasons. 1. Reincarnation is not usually associated with monotheistic world views, and I want my In Nomine game to feel monotheistic. 2. Reincarnation is a big feature of the World of Darkness games. My In Nomine already feels enough like its set in the WoD without reincarnation too. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:53:10 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence On Sep 4, 1:38pm, Casca wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence > On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > Ah, ah, ah. I would NOT allow a Lilim to get a Geas by > > NOT doing something _to the victim_. I've always ruled that you have to > > actively do something to fulfill a Need. For example, you wouldn't be able > > to put a gun to someone's head and read their Need for you not > > to pull the trigger. On the other hand, you could toss them > > out a window and offer to pull them back in where they are dangling > > by their fingertips. }=) > > Sounds like little more than a semantic difference to me. Both cases > involve heavy-handed manipulation of someone under duress. Why is one > acceptable and the other is not? It's more than semantic. One involves action and the other involves lack of action. The fact that the Lilim caused the Need to be imminent is irrelevant. You could as easily ask why a celestial generates disturbance for killing a human, but not when they allow a mortal to die that they could have easily saved. In the gun example, a lack of action will negate any need for a favor. In the window example, a _lack_ of some assistance will have dire consequences! Perhaps a new example will make it clearer. Bob needs $50. A Lilim can sense this and fulfill it. Bob doesn't need $50, but somebody (perhaps the Lilim) just robbed him for $50. That puts you back in the first case with a detectable Need. Bob doesn't need $50. You can't go up and say, "I'm not going to steal $50 from you. You owe me a favor now." - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:49:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> (well, IN-ish) SkreechCaps alert! Out doing some shopping earlier this afternoon, I noticed the latest issue (cover-dated September 1997) of Sendai Publishing's EGM2 (the secondary issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly). The cover promised a story on Mortal Kombat 4, to which I flipped. Imagine my surprise when I thought to myself, "Y'know, that font they've printed the character names in looks *awfully* familiar...could it be...?" I looked again -- it was. Our old pal SkreechCaps. The official font of IN. Austin George "Just wanted to let you know" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:47:08 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: Gaming War Stories (Re: IN> Lilim Geases) At 12:09 PM 9/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Potential Feast of Blades spoilers, and a number of Stupid Kyrio of >Jean Tricks. > >Have we mentioned that Kyrios of Lightning are seriously obnoxious? Kyrios are supposed to be obnoxious. That's their job. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:01:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Plane Questions At 12:03 AM -0400 9/4/97, Casca wrote: >On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Kim Foster wrote: > >> First, What does Celestial combat "look" like. I mean how do you describe it >> with out resorting to game mechanics. A Ofanim using A numious Corpus, say >> horns in the celestial form looks like.....a big wheel of fire with horns >> for example? > >I thought that since the Numinous Corpus songs were Corporeal, they >couldn't be used in Celestial combat. p. 82, box, 3rd paragraph: "When the user is in celestial form, these powers do celestial damage!" - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:04:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Geases At 11:56 AM -0400 9/4/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Sep 3, 11:49am, Leathal Weapon wrote: >> Subject: IN> Lilim Geases >> Yet another Geas question. >> >> If a Lilim (or anyone, for that matter) kills a holder of their Geas, >> does that geas cease to exist? Therefore Lilim A finds out Human X >> has a geas on them. They track that human down and kill them before >> they can call in the geas. Does the geas vanish. Logically I'd have >> to say yes, but I'd like a few other opinions. > > Sounds like yes to me! Depends on where the soul goes. Humans are weak and easily killed -- there has to be *some* reason they can invoke Geasa on Lilim. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #325 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.