From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Sep 9 14:16:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07328 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:16:08 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA23540 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:50:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:50:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199709091850.NAA23540@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #331 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 9 1997 Volume 01 : Number 331 In this digest: IN> DP Beth (was - Celestial Plane Questions) Re: IN> Lilith's Potence IN> Re: ArchAngel Beth Re: IN> Converting Lillim Re: IN> Converting Lillim IN> Bright Lilim and Dark Attunements Re: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives (LONG) IN> Lilim Trackers Re: IN> Eli is more than he appears IN> Another take on Eli (and why the Chez Ennui campaign is 20% stranger...) Re: IN> What's up with "The Marches"? Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #329 Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." IN> The Marches IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives IN> Re: Another take on Eli IN> Superiors inflicting Discord Re: IN> Eli is more than he appears Re: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives Re: IN> ghosts Re: IN> Lilim Trackers Re: IN> DP Beth (was - Celestial Plane Questions) Re: IN> Superiors inflicting Discord Re: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:56:12 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: IN> DP Beth (was - Celestial Plane Questions) > >You're the one with the Dominatrix button... > > Hey, it was at a con, I was in a weird mood. > Besides, that's my Demon Princess button, not my Archangel button. Out of curiousity, what would that button be? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy ... neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." - Fortune Daemon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 00:54:52 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Potence On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:01:12 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>I think this still allows for Geas factories: A Lilim health spa, "Oh, now >>you Need the steam cabinet door unlocked or you'll die? You own me." Nope. >>No sale here. > > It's not automatic -- she has to be able to look into >the person's eyes and make her resonance roll. Even a Perception >12 Lilim will fail sometimes, especially if she's using the >difficulty modifiers to sense the Need she most wants to find. Perception 12 is auto-success. I would argue the Need is so obvious--either the person is screaming to get out or has fainted--she's got to be at +2 for Very Easy and she can get the resonance +2 for physically touching, which she'll have to do, to open the eyes of a fainted victim. So that's +4 for a CD of 5 or 6; if she wants to guarantee 6, she can spend 1 essence. That's all canonical without putting in any of my opinions that she would know what the situation is and would know the Need/6 automatically. >I see no difference in the Lilim locking someone in the steam >cabinet vs. an evil human doing it and the Lil just shows up, >or even vs. the person himself doing it accidentily. Mind you, >a Free Lilim would probably find putting someone in captivity >*distasteful*... (Hey, they can get a Geas *and* Essence!) Let's take a mundane example: if you steal someone's car and then give it back, are you satisfying a need of theirs? Not when viewed morally, legally, etc. Besides, it just makes Lilim too powerful, as I think the steam cabinet example shows. And what if the Geas/6 applied is, "Come for a daily steam bath"? I wouldn't allow such circular Geases-to-create-more- Geases, but it's not canonically illegal AFAIK. >Anyone doing that a lot will probably hit a Divine Intervention. >"Uh, gee, sorry, Lord Michael... Didn't know that you liked >health spas..." Or perhaps the Need isn't there in a way she >can fulfill! Sure, so the Lilim says oops, sorry, and talks her way out of it, teleports away, or just descends to Hell. Annoying, but no big deal. Besides, in the steam cabinet example, we're talking getting level 5 or 6 Geases! Ok, so you have a 20% chance of a bad intervention while snagging FIFTY Geas/6s. Aw...poor Lilim. Ok, so she loses 5 paying off Lilith, but then she's Free with forty-five Geas/6s and as many more as she wants to collect. This is just way too powerful. Lilim should be out there in the world struggling to make it just like any other celestial, not have easy success handed to them on a platter. IN tends to be tough on all celestials--they have a hard road between their dissonance, Superiors, and enemies. It's not consistent to let Lilim off this easily. >>The net effect of all the Lilim's actions is that the Lilim >>has *not* rendered a service. No service, no Geas. I feel the Lilim can do >>nothing to create the Need she fulfills, directly or indirectly. > >So one with "Vessel by Andre" can't walk by and sense someone's >desire to go to bed with her? I don't think that's right either: >she should be able to take advantage of Needs that her presence >calls up. The Need for sex was already there. She didn't create it. If she walked by a gay man or a straight woman, she wouldn't get it. Also, unless the Lilim rapes him--which is unlikely to be a Need of his--he can just say, "No, you're very beautiful, but I have a wife or lover already." >>Not relevant to all Lilim, but perhaps indicative of thier tone: "While in >>Lilith's service, it is dissonant to accept restraints or orders [on >>yourself or on anyone?] except as part of a freely negotiated agreement." > >On yourself, I believe. It's merely distasteful to view them on >another. But is this kind of Geas untrapment consistent with Lilith's Word? And if they aren't supporting Lilith's Word, they're headed for trouble with her. >>p. 150. Actually, maybe this *does* apply to all Lilim. Is a Lilim working >>for Kronos a Lilim of Kronos or a Lilim of Lilith in service to Kronos? IOW >>is she still subject to Lilith's dissonance conditions? It might be best if >>they were. > >They are not. Only Free Lilim access Lilith's Rites & Dissonance >conditions. If one has pledged herself to a Prince, that is >now the Word that she can access & must uphold. (I.e., she gets >the Rites, and the Dissonance for that Prince's Word.) Ok. >A Free Lilim may acquire various Band Attunements from various Princes, >but so long as she has not pledged herself to one, she is sorta-kinda >a Lilim of Freedom -- and gets those Rites and Dissonance conditions, >but no-one else's. Ok. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:20:14 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Re: ArchAngel Beth > >Kobal: "Books are so boring. Not one of them contains the Ultimate Joke." >(*SOB* "He just doesn't *get it*!") > (Not convinced -- what about Catch-22, Gulliver's Travels and any number of satires? :)) >("To: Prince Valefor of Theft. Re: Nostradamus. This work is now seven >centuries overdue. Please return it and pay the library fine. Your library >card has been revoked for five centuries now. --Archangel Beth") *grin* Thanks, very nice write up. jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:22:20 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Converting Lillim > >I doubt even Eli would give her a Bright Lilim attunement until she'd >really been hauled upstairs and exposed to the True Symphony (and either >found enough altruism in herself to be Redeemed, or been destroyed >because she couldn't let go of the selfish bits of her nature enough). > Actually, there's no such thing as a "Bright Lilim" attunement because as it says, the basic Lilim attunement can be either Bright or Dark depending in whose Service it's being employed. I think I remember reading on a few web offerings, but I'd think very carefully about allowing any specific exapnsion on the basic Lilim abilities, unless you're going to the work of balancing out all the other Bands and Choirs. It's a considerably easier route to use the method in Night Music, and just expand the Servitor Attunements instead as done with Laurence and Saminga. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:17:38 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Converting Lillim >As far as I can tell > >She retains the basic Lilim attunement [doing favours for geases]. > >She Looses all Celestial Discord if she has any but retains any Etherial >or Corporeal discords she may have. > >She only aquires the Dissonance conditions for her new Boss [In Eli's case >If your not having fun why not?] when she has gained at least 1 servitor >attunement and ridded herself of discord. [These two are the minimum for >her to be considered an Angel since Lilim have no choir attunement, until >she manages these two she is still on parole.] > > I think you're mostly right, but the reformed Angel does ore at least *should* acquire the dissonance particular to the given Archangel, and use of the rites, but no attunements (beyond applicable generic Choir) to start with. Also Eli has no Dissonance, so you can even be a stick in the mud if you want to. :), of course he grants no Distinctions either. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:32:29 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: IN> Bright Lilim and Dark Attunements > > ...and Lilim just don't go through that. A Bright Lilim is still >a Lilim, just like a Free or demonic Lilim. (Heh...diet, caffiene free, >and cherry, respectively? ) Free Lilim don't start with Attunements >because they've never worked for anyone specifically, and have to trade >for 'em... > So personally, I maintain that a Lilim working for a Demon Prince >who goes Bright keeps her Attunements. And her Rites, for that matter, >though I wouldn't highly recommend using those. (Granted, if her old >Prince catches up with her, he'll take those back, but I think that'll be >the least of her worries...) I consider it one of the reasons they're >particularly coveted, and why they're particularly hunted. While that's probably true in theory,from the point of view of the Archangel in question (probably even Eli :) A Lilim who isn't willing to give up her Dark Attunements isn't ready to go "Bright". Also, not every demon survives the realignment process. Or even if the Archangel is willing, hanging on to those Dark Attunements might lessen your survival chances considerably. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:22:30 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives (LONG) On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:00:53 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >[I think this is everything... It's actually done up mostly seriously, >be warned!] *Very nice* One of the few non-IN AAs I may actually use. >Distinctions >============ >("Distinctions? Oh, right, gonna need those. Um... Librarian.") > >There is only one Distinction of Archives: Librarian. Upon entering a >place where text is stored (or accessing a computer with that data), >a Librarian will automatically be able to access the titles, subjects and >authors of all the textual material in the area. With a successful >Perception roll, the Librarian may also get a brief summary. A Librarian >may voluntarily restrict this ability to "all books within eyesight" to >prevent brain-explosions when in Yves' Library. How about the above as Master of Librarians, plus: Vassal of the Stacks The angel can use the Celestial Song of Motion at no essence cost to teleport to the correct filing location for a book (or other information- containing item) in her hands, or back to the stacks of un-filed books. This distinction can only operate within a single library. Inter-library loan books must be returned by other means. Friend of Books Within Celestial Forces miles, the angel can detect the presence of any specific desired book (or any other infomation-containing item) in all libraries, bookstores, or any other places the book may be obtained legitimately (garage sales, conventions, etc.) She is also aware of the conditions for obtaining the book in question from each source: cost, library card fee, check out duration, etc. She may choose one of these to have a Cherubic attuning to: the attuning lasts only until she reaches the book, and she can attune to only one book at a time (unless she has other means to maintain attunings--that is, she's a Cherub or has the Corporeal Song of Attraction). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:50:42 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Lilim Trackers >>>(This from current discussion from the AA's and DP's of In Nomine...)<<< Hmmph! If I *am* a Prince, my Word is NOT "Disagreeing with Archangel Beth". My talent for disagreement is much broader than that. >:D - -David, a real Prince of a guy http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:37:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Eli is more than he appears On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Adam Canning wrote: > The only > depiction we have had of God so far has him doing Groucho Marx impressions *Where* did you get this from? > and he is described as rarely talking to Arch angels any way. The fact > thaty few of the arch angels take Eli's advice is not relevant if they do > not know he is god in disguise. Well, if they knew he was God in disguise, it would sorta defeat the purpose of having a disguise..... - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 06:33:57 -0400 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> Another take on Eli (and why the Chez Ennui campaign is 20% stranger...) True to the nature as a servitor of Malphas (I got promoted, I got promoted!), I hereby present MY take on Eli's story. Creation, like many have said, is a big thing. So big that it's scary to most angels. Most archangels, even -- even if he didn't create the universe himself, the scope of the remodeling God did is staggering. Why, the wallpaper alone... And in all of this, when God chose an Archange of Creation, the candidate for such an important job had to be well suited for it, and ironically, that meant that only a Mercurian could fill it. So very early on, Eli found himself in a very lofty position. And he served it well. But it did have the effect of, shall we say, deranging him. The magnitude and nature of his job was such that in the service of his Word, his outlook changed considerably. Much the same thing has happened to many over the ages. Gabriel has a similar derangement, evincing paranoia and a very flighty nature as part of both her choir and her Word. Druiel can also be considered another case of an angel acting strangely because of a bad choice of word. Anyway, back to Eli. On top of that, the war took its toll on Heaven and Earth, and a balance somewhere was thrown out of whack. While his servitors and those of the other archangels produced feats, the creativity demonstrated by the humans was in its own way even more impressive. Their limited capacity made their feats of engineering and production even more breathtaking than anything performed in Heaven. As if that wasn't enough, more energy was diverted from creating and producing new things and going to new ways to beat the Fallen back. Heaven just wasn't creative any more. And so it was one night that Eli snuck out and changed sides. It was then that he went to serve his Word among those who also best served his Word: the Humans. He saw it as his best course of action, both in support of the humans (who sometimes need a helping hand both with their creations and in beating back the Fallen themselves) and Heaven (supporting his Word is the best support he can give). Many of the other Archangels don't see it this way, considering what he did abandonment of his holy post. (It should be pointed out, however, that God allowed it, and that should make it okay. If only he'd come down and actually give CONFIRMATION... >:) But regardless of what he thinks, he's there and going about his business. If cornered and asked his beliefs, he'll explain it that way: that the humans are the ones doing all the creating these days, and that his best support of his word lies among them. Dominic, naturally, isn't happy about this setup. It's not like he's actually Fallen or working for Hell, but there's something not right about an archangel doing this sort of thing. He's willing to persecute it, not because it's definitely wrong, but because it's so grey that he *needs* to examine it fully to understand it. And would he be a good Archangel of Judgement if he didn't look into the suspicious matters, not just the definitely wrong ones? Contrary to what Heaven thinks, Eli is not alone in his modified service. He has a small army of relievers which go about, admiring the works of those people who have found their talents, and advising as "muses" those who need guidance. He also maintains very occasional contact with his remaining loyal servitors. Those either in his own service, or service to others. He appears in diners, in studios, in waiting rooms, on buses and trains, whereever creative people are, and he likes starting conversations with them. He's a Mercurian, after all. That's what he does. All the while, he's also working on something of his own. Nobody's ever gotten a good look at it, but those people that have had brief glimpses of it have said it's big, festooned both with engineering measurements and doodles of things to add on. And that also has some people worried. Jean isn't sure whether to be interested in it or not. As keeper of all knowledge of technological things, he'll have a copy of whatever in his own repository. Maybe. Trouble is, this is the Archangel of Creation here. It wouldn't be beyond him to create something entirely new. Many of the archangels (and princes) look at Eli as a loose cannon on deck for that reason: not clearly working for any side but the humans', and concocting a plan which could have a devastating effect on the War. Some have even likened it to that really big joke Kobal is working on. - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ No, not THAT David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:54:49 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> What's up with "The Marches"? > I got my comp copy on Friday, so distributors should have it by now, > and your local game store should have it this week or next. In > theory, it should be in the catalog web page as well, but it ain't. Oooooh, I'm just _dying_ for my comp copy! Gimme, gimme! Being able to look at the cover during Gencon was like letting someone smell the brownies, but not letting them eat any. };) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:02:03 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN>Kyriotates in Humans, Vessel=? > Sorry, I've obviously irritated you, and I didn't mean to. I wasn't > intending to hold you to the current stats, just pointing out thier > problems. Nah, I wasn't annoyed, but the question about whether the book models shotguns correctly isn't in question. We _know_ it's wrong! =) > > > An average person (stats of 3) with quite a bit of training > >in shotgun (skill 3) can't do better than 5 points (assuming the > >suggestion of +6 accuracy, -1 power). Not reasonable. > > Point taken. I just hate to add still another mechanic into the system. I fully agree! Those shotguns things I suggested were for realism, not as canon... It may be that you just use them as they are (or whatever system suits ya) and just make a vow to ignore how real-life shotguns work and go from there. Lord knows I do that a lot with many games I play. (Don't even get me started on armor and damage... the only accurate systems I've seen are woefully overburdened with rules. Right now I go for rules-light and make up the other effects!) Here's an idea that also adds a bit more complexity, but might be more suitable for some campaigns where you want a greater range of damages. For every +4 Power on an attack, roll an additional die. This increases the range with only minimal increases to complexity. So a +6 Power weapon would get d6+2 extra damage (added to the check digit) on a successful attack. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:10:49 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #329 On Sep 8, 5:01pm, Adam Canning wrote: > Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #329 > From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) > > [BTW, I was denying that anything I could say is ever wrong. > Everything in the FAQ is 100% correct. The next version will be > even _more_ correct. The ways of the FAQ-keeper are ineffable. > Fnord. Buy more bonds. The last sentence was true. The one before > that did not exist.] > < > > When did the Curia elect you? and what did you do to the dissenting > cardinals? All the electees were locked in a room until they decided which one was to be chosen and fed nothing but Bolivian short-stem Frop. Due to mild indigestion, I boiled it in a stew rather than smoking my share and this gave me the clarity of vision to realize that I must carefully side-step the selection process by bludgeoning all the other candidates and faking their signatures on the voting forms. As expected, I was risen up by unanimous acclamation and have held this office ever since then. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:13:02 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." On Sep 8, 6:14pm, Walter Milliken wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." > [johnk:] > > Seriously, though, unless overruled, skills top out > >at 6. > > Except for animals -- I seem to recall that they sometimes have high > skill levels in the box with the sample animals, to get their target > numbers to something reasonable for skills like Tracking. You are, as they say, right on the money. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:28:17 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." > > [On the other hand, I'm kinda likin' the idea that _humans_ > >can go above six... this leads to ugly problems, though. Perhaps > >we should leave well enough alone!] > > It does allow them to actually get to reasonable skill levels. Otherwise it > takes a high stat of 5 or 6 and skill/6 to get them to the super-skilled > range of a surgeon or sharpshooter. Maybe a ruling that humans can have > skills over 6 because they are integral to the symphony, but they can't > manage net stat+skill over 11 or 12 unless the skill is no more than 6? Hmmmmm.... Let's try something out and see what kind of problems it generates. If it sounds good, we might make it official. Non-canon suggestion (please comment!) - -------------------- Humans are allowed to have ONE skill above six. This represents their greatest gift and is partly because of their close ties to the Symphony. Not everyone has a skill this high... in fact most people never even bother to excel at even _one_ thing, but for those who try, there is something they are better at than nearly anyone else. This skill's limit is 9. Because the human is going far beyond what most people ever dream of for that field, training is nearly impossible to find or requires a _lot_ of experience or research. This could provide plot-hooks for GM's... "Only a master painter can do the work we need." "Try Lakadiel, he's really good." "You don't understand... we need someone _special_." - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:02:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: IN> The Marches Well, The Marches has just been released according to the newproducts announcement list and I just updated The Word accordingly. There ya go, guys; you didn't have much longer to wait after all... Oops da Ogre, looking forward to the book himself mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (personal) umabel@pyramid.sjgames.com (for email regarding the SJG IN pages) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives I will be using Beth in my campaign- I almost have to. One of the Mercurians of Yves in the party had the role of Hypatia of Alexandria for her first vessel. She is being played by my wife - an elementary school librarian. So now, I'll have a Servitor of Archives in service to Yves in the party. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Another take on Eli I like the idea of Eli serving his word among humans, those who best serve his word. However, I wonder... Is Eli actually trying to get ahold of Lilith to form a third power bloc? The word of Freedom seems to be more closely aligned to Humanity than either Heaven or Hell. Just curious, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:33:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> Superiors inflicting Discord The good Karakash wrote: >Increasing an already-existing Discord might be acceptable >for the "Bang!" method, though... If a being has already allowed >a 'crack' in their personal symphonies to develop, the Superior >is just taking advantage of that flaw... Oh, *that* I definitely agree with. Wish I'd thought of it myself. Human or angel, if you've allowed Lust to be ingrained in the fiber of your being, then you're Andre's play toy (perhaps in a disturbingly literal sense). Same with Anger and Baal/Belial, Gluttony and Haagenti, Greed and Mammon, Guilt and Asmodeus, and so forth. While there's no mechanic for the opposite situation, I suppose that a demon who'd fallen "victim" to a virtuous habit would be especially vulnerable to the influence of the Archangel under whose Word the virtue falls. Meanwhile, on the Malakite Dissonance thread, let me praise Peter Fredericks to high heaven for his recent lovely post on the subject. I *was* in favor of loose interpretations that allowed for loopholes and weaseling (esp. for the Malakim, to make them more playable), but now I find I prefer Peter's approach of handling dissonance strictly but letting "mercy" show through at the level of the characters' Superiors. I rather like the idea of a Malakite willingly undergoing the pain of dissonance while trying to Redeem, rather than kill, a demon. (He could even justify the dissonance to Dominic through creative use of Christian theology: like God in Jesus, he's satisfying Justice by taking upon *himself* the penalty of the other's sin, in hope of the other's Redemption. Dom can't very well publicly denounce *that* sentiment....) Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:26:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Eli is more than he appears On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Casca wrote: > On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Adam Canning wrote: > > > The only > > depiction we have had of God so far has him doing Groucho Marx impressions > > *Where* did you get this from? Page 45 of Pyramid #9 is where I saw it. > > and he is described as rarely talking to Arch angels any way. The fact > > thaty few of the arch angels take Eli's advice is not relevant if they do > > not know he is god in disguise. > > Well, if they knew he was God in disguise, it would sorta defeat the > purpose of having a disguise..... The king walking among his people in peasants garb? Shadowcat XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Bring me into the company of those who seek the truth... and deliver me from those who have found it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:45:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > > I will be using Beth in my campaign- I almost have to. One of the Mercurians > of Yves in the party had the role of Hypatia of Alexandria for her first > vessel. She is being played by my wife - an elementary school librarian. > So now, I'll have a Servitor of Archives in service to Yves in the party. I will also be using her, for much the same reason. Fran took one look at her, and decided to be a Servitor of Archives on loan to the ARCHDEAN. This could get fun. Also has anyone noticed that all of Archbeths realy cool "minor" ArchAngels work with or for Yves? Shadowcat QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ Being afraid of monolithic organizations, especially where they have computers, is like being afraid of really big gorillas, especially when they are on fire. - Bruce Sterling ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:38:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> ghosts On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Just shows how much Werewolf *I've* played... ("You took *how* many > flaws?" "Bald, albino, and fangless. Don't make jokes about Scooby > snacks." ) 'Course, the Glasswalkers > would like Jean... ....and would despise Vapula for the same reason. Since we're on this tangent, under which DP would 'Pollution' fall? I'm torn between Vapula and Belial. > >And speaking of Garou, I've decided that in my games they're the > >descendants of Jordi's Grigori. > > Hmmmm! Cool notion. (You've seen the Gargoyles in IN thing, right?) Actually, no. Why do you bring it up? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:44:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Trackers At 11:50 PM -0400 9/8/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>(This from current discussion from the AA's and DP's of In Nomine...)<<< > >Hmmph! If I *am* a Prince, my Word is NOT "Disagreeing with Archangel >Beth". > >My talent for disagreement is much broader than that. >:D > >-David, a real Prince of a guy Okay, everbody! Time to come up with suggestions for Prince David (not *that* David!) Edelstein! Prince of Disagreement? Prince of Devil's Advocate? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:10:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> DP Beth (was - Celestial Plane Questions) At 7:56 PM +0000 9/8/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> >You're the one with the Dominatrix button... >> >> Hey, it was at a con, I was in a weird mood. >> Besides, that's my Demon Princess button, not my Archangel button. > >Out of curiousity, what would that button be? "There is but one God, and Murphy is his prophet," probably... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:37:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superiors inflicting Discord At 11:33 AM -0400 9/9/97, Stacy Stroud wrote: >The good Karakash wrote: >>Increasing an already-existing Discord might be acceptable >>for the "Bang!" method, though... If a being has already allowed >>a 'crack' in their personal symphonies to develop, the Superior >>is just taking advantage of that flaw... > [...] >Human or angel, if you've allowed Lust to be ingrained in the fiber of your >being, then you're Andre's play toy (perhaps in a disturbingly literal >sense). > >Same with Anger and Baal/Belial, Gluttony and Haagenti, Greed and Mammon, >Guilt and Asmodeus, and so forth. > >While there's no mechanic for the opposite situation, I suppose that a >demon who'd fallen "victim" to a virtuous habit would be especially >vulnerable to the influence of the Archangel under whose Word the virtue >falls. Merciful and Novalis, perhaps? >Meanwhile, on the Malakite Dissonance thread, [...] I rather >like the idea of a Malakite willingly undergoing the pain of dissonance >while trying to Redeem, rather than kill, a demon. (He could even justify >the dissonance to Dominic through creative use of Christian theology: like >God in Jesus, he's satisfying Justice by taking upon *himself* the penalty >of the other's sin, in hope of the other's Redemption. Dom can't very well >publicly denounce *that* sentiment....) And a Malakite can also get away with it because Malakim don't Fall -- the worst that could happen is he'd get a lot of Discord. And if the demon *did* get Redeemed, it might be worth it! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:12:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Archangel of Archives At 11:04 AM -0400 9/9/97, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > >I will be using Beth in my campaign- I almost have to. One of the Mercurians >of Yves in the party had the role of Hypatia of Alexandria for her first >vessel. She is being played by my wife - an elementary school librarian. > So now, I'll have a Servitor of Archives in service to Yves in the party. That's great! Thanks! (Are you going to decide on a Choir for her?) At 3:20 AM +0200 9/9/97, Jo Hart wrote: >> >>Kobal: "Books are so boring. Not one of them contains the Ultimate Joke." >>(*SOB* "He just doesn't *get it*!") > >(Not convinced -- what about Catch-22, Gulliver's Travels and any number of >satires? :)) Kobal's gotten jaded lately. The last time a book made him grin was "A Modest Proposal," and that mostly because some people took it *seriously*. The "Good Times Virus" is probably one of his as well. >>("To: Prince Valefor of Theft. Re: Nostradamus. This work is now seven >>centuries overdue. Please return it and pay the library fine. Your library >>card has been revoked for five centuries now. --Archangel Beth") > >*grin* Thanks, very nice write up. Thank *you*! At 3:22 AM +0000 9/9/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:00:53 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy >wrote: >>[I think this is everything... It's actually done up mostly seriously, >>be warned!] > >*Very nice* One of the few non-IN AAs I may actually use. This is great... I'll put in the other Distinctions when I put it up on the INC (I gotta tend to that today...), though I might suggest they're either more Distinctions, or perhaps Servitor Attunements. (And it would, like Vapula's "Inspector," be "Librarian," I think.... The Librarians in Yves' Library just got more scary? "PUT THAT BOOK BACK! Okay, let's see your library card...") emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #331 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.