From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Sep 13 15:31:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20466 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:31:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA16462 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:17:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:17:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199709132017.PAA16462@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #340 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, September 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 340 In this digest: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo Re: IN> INRI Tattoo Re: IN> INRI Tattoo Re: IN> Superior Intervention IN> A Few Questions Re: IN> INRI Tattoo IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine Re: IN> A Few Questions IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #339 Re: IN> INRI Tattoo Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Re:IN> INRI Tattoo Re: IN> Superior Intervention Re: Re: IN> Beth of the Archives Re: Re: IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling Re: IN> INRI Tattoo Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine Re: IN> A Few Questions Re: IN> Really Bad Perception Rolls Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Re: IN> Beth of the Archives Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) Re: IN> Superior Intervention Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:05:39 -0500 From: b1gator@camalott.com Subject: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo Anyone know what INRI means? James Morrow says "I'm Not Returning Imminently" Dan Coffin b1gator@camalott.com "God be between you and harm in all the empty places you walk." - -a blessing of the 18th Egyptian Dynasty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:26:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 b1gator@camalott.com wrote: > Anyone know what INRI means? > Translates into "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" (I'm not good enough with my Latin to give the original. I do know that I and J were the same letter at the time, though) In some depictions of the crucifixion, you'll see this written on a paper over Jesus' head, left there by a Roman centurion IIRC. > James Morrow says "I'm Not Returning Imminently" > Heh. :-) Mark Kinney, Angel of Useless Trivia, Servitor of Clavin. :-) alberich@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations "Oh, we've got a bigger dressing room than the puppets? How refreshing!" -- David St. Hubbins, "This Is Spinal Tap" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:23:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 b1gator@camalott.com wrote: > Anyone know what INRI means? The initials of the phrase, "Jesus, King of the Jews" in Latin IIRC that tidbit from wayback in my childhood when forced to go to church. > Dan Coffin > b1gator@camalott.com - -- Oops da Ogre (mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) Donald G. Bixler "I need a urine sample." "Chicken or beef?" - heard at work ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:33:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Superior Intervention On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>I submit that your Word is "Contrariness", Prince Edelstein.<<< > > Actually, I'm thinking "Prince of Not Suffering Fools Gladly". I'm sure the rest of the list is flattered. > Do you want to get harsher, or do you want to drop it? Not on a polite mailing list. If your ego hasn't swollen to maximum capacity, I'm sure we can carry it over to private email. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:01:45 -0500 From: Christopher Scott Subject: IN> A Few Questions I've been lurking on the list for a little while, and thought I would take the leap and post something. Forgive me, please, if these questions have been discussed to death. First off, is it allowable to make a character who serves a word-bound celestial who is not an AA or DP? You'd be missing out on attunements (I assume only AAs and DPs can grant attunements) but you'd have a much wider range of words to serve. I'm mainly asking because I'm writing up Mihr, the Angel of Friendship, and thought he would make a neat superior for PCs; he's not powerful enough to be an AA though...perhaps he serves the Archangel of Love. (That's another question...is such a superior forthcoming from SJG?) On a related topic, are we going to see Raphael? I'm thinking he'd be the Archangel of Healing. Finally, I was wondering about the Pseudo-Dionysian choir scheme as it relates to IN...we have seraphim, cherubim, thrones, powers, virtues, and dominations. We have archangels, although not as a choir. I'm assuming the Mercurians are the plain ol' angels. So where are the principalities? 'topher Christopher Scott - iago@ozarks.net Evil Manipulator and Fake Redhead UIN 668360 - http://www.geocities.com/~topherscott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:53:29 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo At 10:05 PM 9/12/97 -0500, b1gator@camalott.com wrote: >Anyone know what INRI means? Iesu Nazeri, Rex Iudicae (Jesus of Nazereth, King of the Jews) I may have slaughtered the roman spelling of Nazereth, but I am pretty sure the rest is spelled right and in the right case. Speaks There are few situations in life that cannot be resolved promptly, and to the satisfaction of all concerned, by either suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night. -- Ernest Bramah (Kai Lung stories) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:02:41 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine >>>Andre IMHO seems to be more for *all* forms of sex, not just those forms that aren't completely accepted by society.<<< He is for all forms of sex that lead to corruption and evil. If he sees a couple sharing a wonderful, intimate, loving experience, he's not going to be happy because they're having sex...he's going to be thinking of ways to cheapen their experience or corrupt their relationship. Sex can be good or bad (contrary to the old joke about "no such thing as bad sex")-- if Andrealphus ever promotes good sex, it's only because he has a plan to turn it into bad sex. (Bad in moral/social terms, of course, not in terms of the experience.) So yes, Andrealphus is probably much happier with homosexuality being disfavored and considered a sin, because it attaches that much more shamefulness to the act, and helps foster an outcast subculture. >>>In this case, Kronos could swing either way -- and wipe that grin off your face, you know damn well what I mean! )>:) If his cause could be furthered by putting someone into an abusive relationship, homosexual or not, then he'll order it. If OTOH he can drive someone to his Fate by making him condemn someone else's relationship, consentual or not, then he'll order that.<<< Certainly. But homosexuality provides a particularly easy tool for dragging people to their Fates as long as it has stigma and sin attached to it...so for the same reason, he probably prefers to keep it stigmatized. >>>In fact, almost every angel and demon will have a fluid perspective on it. Some will find it (or anything) wrong more often than others, but there are very few absolute evils in the cosmology of In Nomine that I can see. And if you think about it, that's quite an irony.<<< Well, the point with the diabolical perspective on homosexuality is that THEY don't think it's "evil", and they don't care-- it's what HUMANS think that motivates them. If humans think homosexuality is evil, and demons can thus use it to their advantage, then it benefits them to keep homosexuality regarded as "sinful". In other words, some demons (Baal, for example) probably don't care much at all, because such issues rarely enter their plans-- but nearly every demon will regard it as better for Hell in general if homosexuality continues to be seen in a negative way by human society. - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:24:09 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> A Few Questions On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:01:45 -0500, Christopher Scott wrote: >First off, is it allowable to make a character who serves a word-bound >celestial who is not an AA or DP? You'd be missing out on attunements (I >assume only AAs and DPs can grant attunements) but you'd have a much wider >range of words to serve. Sure, and you wouldn't be missing out on Attunements because the Word-Bound would report to his AA or DP, so you'd have access to the Superior's Attunements and Rites also, though the Word-Bound might have to ask for you. Additionally, the Word-Bound might have Rites or even an Attunement himself, depending on his power. > I'm mainly asking because I'm writing up Mihr, the >Angel of Friendship, and thought he would make a neat superior for PCs; >he's not powerful enough to be an AA though...perhaps he serves the >Archangel of Love. (That's another question...is such a superior >forthcoming from SJG?) I don't know, but Novalis might work. However, Mihr's method of operation would have to be compatible with Novalis'. Another possibility is Marc: although his word is Trade, the basis of Trade is friendly relations between people. Mihr's Word might better be stated as Friendliness for Marc. A third possibility is Eli. Probably, Mihr would have to have been given his word before Eli dropped out, so that argues he would be fairly strong. Eli has no distinctions, but Mihr might have a special Attunement to give out as well as his own Rite. >On a related topic, are we going to see Raphael? I'm thinking he'd be the >Archangel of Healing. >Finally, I was wondering about the Pseudo-Dionysian choir scheme as it >relates to IN...we have seraphim, cherubim, thrones, powers, virtues, and >dominations. We have archangels, although not as a choir. I'm assuming the >Mercurians are the plain ol' angels. So where are the principalities? > >'topher >Christopher Scott - iago@ozarks.net >Evil Manipulator and Fake Redhead >UIN 668360 - http://www.geocities.com/~topherscott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:30:51 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #339 >From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) > > > >Who has the Word Evolution? Eli? > Vapula, surely. jo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:45:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo > >Anyone know what INRI means? > > Iesu Nazeri, Rex Iudicae > > (Jesus of Nazereth, King of the Jews) > > I may have slaughtered the roman spelling of Nazereth, but I am pretty sure > the rest is spelled right and in the right case. The big crucifix over my hometown Catholic church's altar had it: IESV NAZARENVS REX IVDEORVM (Note that the 'V's are, of course, really 'U's. It's a very gaudy faux-Roman... thing.) - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:20:59 +1000 From: Anthony Baxter Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... >>> IQJason@aol.com wrote > Earl Wajenberg: > "In modern terms, the black horseman might be generalized as Economic > Disaster. I can't think of a current demon prince who matches really well. > Haagenti is the only one who comes to mind, but he's really at the opposite > pole." > > That's because they haven't yet presented an opposite number for Marc yet...I > presume that Mammon would probably fit pretty well. I would have thought that the Demon of Economic Rationalism would be Marc's opposite - taking the "trade" idea too far. 'Everything has a price - what's yours?' Anthony ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:39:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: Re:IN> INRI Tattoo >> Supposedly, there is a picture of a demon with an INRI tattoo in the >> basic book, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Anybody know where >> it is? >> >I don't know about the main book, but there is such a thing (if that's a >demon, of course; you know you can't tell in this game :-) on the GMs >Screen. That's not a demon, that's a *motorcycle*. There's a picture of Anael, a Malakite of Eli, in Pyramid #23, with INRI on her left bicep, but I don't think there's *any* picture of a demon with that tattooed on their vessel anyplace. Methinks somebody's pulling your leg. The Lilim on p. 148 has "666" on her shoulder, and the Shedim's host on p. 151 has a pentacle, and the Calabite on p. 144 has a "TCB" belt buckle , and there's a demonling on p. 192 with "Bad Boy" on his upper arm. "Night Music" has a (presumed) Soldier with "128 MB of Evil" on the upper arm on p. 51, and p. 80 has a shot of (also presumably) Druiel with a tattoo of a sword with a crown and angelic-looking wings. No demons with tattoos in Pyramid #23-26... Michael I'd happily trade ten concerned citizens for one intelligent one. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:12:30 +0100 From: "cd skogsberg" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Intervention Casca wrote: > I submit that your Word is "Contrariness", Prince Edelstein. So he's the Imp of the Perverse[1], then? cd [1]: C.f. Ambrose Bierce. - -- Don't try to eff the ineffable. cd skogsberg cd@alfakonsult.se | d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:59:44 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> Beth of the Archives The newest Divine holder of the word of IN writes, of Novalis... "Hey, she's got to have *some* political savvy..." And, I agree. After all...she's managed to parley her word into a symbol of peace, reconciliation, beauty...you never see a wedding or funeral without flowers, and they're a generally recognized sign of apology. Not bad for plant parts. ;) yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:15:00 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling Kingsley Lintz: " I'm still going with the, "They can't Fall because they were BUILT on the down side" idea...got a first draft for my Bright Malakim done, but I need to clean it up a little..." Ever since that idea was first proposed, I've had this vision of the Christopher Walken-Dennis Hopper scene from True Romance. "You know...Malakim are demons. No, really..." yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:42:38 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> INRI Tattoo At 02:45 AM 9/13/97 -0400, Benjamin D. Hutchins wrote: >> >Anyone know what INRI means? >> >> Iesu Nazeri, Rex Iudicae >> >> (Jesus of Nazereth, King of the Jews) >> >> I may have slaughtered the roman spelling of Nazereth, but I am pretty sure >> the rest is spelled right and in the right case. > >The big crucifix over my hometown Catholic church's altar had it: > >IESV NAZARENVS REX IVDEORVM So maybe I did butcher Nazereth... I dont think "Iudeorum" is correct. I know that for the longest time the Latin Creed included the term "Perfidius Iudicae" refering to the Jews who handed over Jesus to Pilate. The word "Judaica" comes from the Latin "Iudica". "Iudeorum" suggests a masculine ending, which I don't think it is. Although "Iudearum" might work because the word "Jews" would be plural... I think I am spending too much bandwith on this... I'll go back to lurking... Speaks There are few situations in life that cannot be resolved promptly, and to the satisfaction of all concerned, by either suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night. -- Ernest Bramah (Kai Lung stories) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:33:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) > >From Karakash: > >It's generally accepted by most celestials that Malakim literally > >cannot Fall. There has never been an instance recorded in Heaven and > Actually in a sense Malakim ARE already fallen! If one studies the Aye...this one first occurred to me because of their Dissonance mechanics, but looking a little more, it gets strong enough I have a hard time believing it wasn't intended by the creators.. Beyond their Dissonance and your note about their selfish view of the Symphony, consider their Celestial forms...every other Choir is bright, open, and often glowing, while the Bands are dark, hidden...and the Malakim are `shadowy human figues, large black wings glinting with purple'... > Okay, but the Malakim serve Archangels and not Demon Princes. I think the whole point of Malakim Vows is to keep them on the `right side' despite their dark natures...and thinking they should appear on the Malakim's Celestial Form as dark chains crisscrossing their body. (I'm considering the idea that, where most Angels effectively `float' to Heaven, Malakim feel themselves pulled up by the chains of their Oaths...) > what would happen if a Malkite took a quite valid new vow: "Non > Serviam!" Would allow for an Outcast Malakim, at least until the others caught up with him... > This is what happened to the Archangel of Light (=Creation, "Let there > be light"), Lucifer. He /had/ to go against God! It probably happened > when he discoved the word "Not" and applied it to his greatest vow, to > serve God. That I don't see so much; Lucifer was Seraphim, so he didn't HAVE the Vows. (I still like Casca's thought - I'm pretty sure it was Casca's, anyway - that Lucifer went because Light included free will...which is essentially what you're saying here as well, but without making Lucifer a Dark Malakim.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:43:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Bonakim Confessionals, the Pure of Heart I paced madly back and forth across the room. I knew my eyes were burning with frustration, and I was beginning to twitch a bit. Alright, okay, the others had a POINT...if we just ran over and kicked down the door, she'd be dead before we got to the demons, and Val'd be hurting with the dissonance for that...but if we didn't do SOMETHING soon, I could feel a note going sour in me just for sitting on our duffs this long. That's when the door opened. I know because it interruped my train of thought when it almost smacked into my nose, and when my thoughts get going, they're hard to knock aside. I opened my mouth to swear at the idiot room service klutz who didn't see our sign, but it turned into a gape. The woman across the door from me was no room service. She was..beautiful. I've seen Andre's Lilim, and they're cute, but not beautiful. Beauty's still on our side. I couldn't describe her more than that; it just hit me that THIS is what a force of good is all about. She stepped half over the threshold and kissed my forehead. I swear. Then she smiled and said, "It's alright, friend," and left. I just went back into the room and sat down, feeling..good. I've NEVER been that relaxed. Not even hurtling through a canyon at 150. The `Bonakim', or Bright Malakim, are virtually unheard of; the rare interactions with them have left powerful impressions on those they've touched, but such contact has usually been brief - the prevailing, mistaken, opinion among those few who know enough to FORM an opinion is that they must be some unique creature of Yves. Forgiving and kind, the Bonakim give the Seraphim a definite run for `most holy'. They're the freest of the Choirs...or Bands, for that matter...and represent God's Mercy. Resonance: The Bonakim Resonance can forgive someone for an action or happening, clearing both the subject's mind and the Symphony of all guilt for their check digit in hours. The check digit also determines the import of what they can forgive. 1- Can alleviate feelings of guilt over something entirely beyond the subject's control. (eg. "If I'd only been there, this never would have happened.") 2- Can alleviate feelings of guilt over something under the subject's control, but necessary in the subject's view. (eg. "You don't understand..I HAD to do it." "Actually, I DO understand...and it's alright.") 3- May forgive Superior Dissonance (eg. an Angel of War may retreat, and one of Dominic may overlook heresy.) 4- Temporarily remove the effects of all non-Celestial Discord. They will still be visible on the subject's Celestial form, but will appear...muted. 5- May forgive Choir/Band Dissonance (eg. a Seraphim may lie for the duration, or a Cherub may betray a devotion.); or forgive a mortal for something they did wrong but have repented for. 6- Temporarily remove the effects of all Discord, including Celestial, and also remove it's visible appearance on the subject's Celestial form; or forgive a mortal before those he has wronged, in such a way that they, too, will forgive him. All must be present. Dissonance: Speaking of which... If a Bonakim fails in his Resonance roll, and the subject then commits the action anyway, the Bonakim gains Dissonance as well. Their Dissonance may NEVER be converted into Discord; instead, when they fail in a Dissonance roll, all of their current Dissonance converts immediately to an Oath, of which the first two are always the Malakim Oaths. When the Bonakim has four such chains enwrapping his soul, his Celestial Form darkens and he becomes a Malakim again - the Oaths do NOT take effect until that time, however, except to act as Celestial Discord whenever the Bonakim would regenerate Essence. Manner and Appearance: The Bonakim are graceful and beautiful, in all forms. Their Celestial forms are of a gentle glow in humanoid form, with gossamer wings shimmering faintly behind them. Their human forms usually have Charisma, but dress with a simple taste. Several of the other Choirs distrust them; all Servitors of Judgment consider them dangerous, whatever they are, while Seraphim claim to find them inherently dishonest. (Mercurian quips that Seraphim are jealous are met with cold stares.) The Bonakim don't see themselves so much as instruments, as they do repairmen, fixing the dents, tuning the strings, and tightening the skins of those who truly make the Symphony happen. And, just incidentally, they call themselves the Kapharim. {At least, I think that's right; I did enough research to get it as a term for `atonement', translating more literally to `covering over', but I can make no serious claims to knowing the language.} Game Mechanics: Their Resonance roll is Will based, minus the subject's current total Dissonance. They can use their Resonance in two ways; ahead of time, or after the fact. Granting their forgiveness ahead of time is stronger, allowing the subject to perform actions they normally couldn't without qualms, but, of course, requires knowing more or less what and when you're going to be doing something. Granting forgiveness after the fact will temporarily alleviate the effects, at least internally, of what has been done, but for a more permanent removal further steps will have to be taken. As they say, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission...but permission keeps you out of more trouble in the long run. The psychological impacts are usually more firmly alleviated by later forgiveness, especially in mortals, however. Note that removed effects return at the end of the duration; avoided ones are completely avoided. (eg. a Seraph of Michael has retreated from battle and attained a point of Dissonance; the Bonakim can forgive that for a few hours if need be, but it'll come back. If, going into an overwhelming battle, the Bonakim calms the Seraph and forgives him then, the Dissonance will never even be attained. In the story example above, the Ofanite simply won't gain Dissonance while his team spends the next few hours planning..) It's also worth keeping in mind that to most Bonakim, becoming a Malakim again is an absolutely terrifying prospect. They will be EXTREMELY unlikely to ever again risk Forgiving a person who has gained them Dissonance once. If they have failed to forgive Discord and that Discord comes up and is not successfully resisted (whether their resistance fails, or they just go with it) within the duration (5 or 6 hours) of the Bonakim's failed roll, the Bonakim also gains Dissonance. This combined with Discord's effect on their Resonance makes them particularly reluctant to Forgive those who have it, though they -DO NOT- have the automatic disdain for Angels with Discord that most have. **Special** - Bonakim may purchase, for 3 points per Level with a maximum of Level/3, a type of Charisma that applies across the board, including all Vessels and their Celestial Form. On the down side, it also functions as an Aura Discord of equal level, though not, of course, being considered `discord' for social purposes. Superior Attunements (at least, theoretically; most of the Superiors don't know these are even possible either...) Blandine: Blandine's Pure of Heart, by their nature, -cannot- be within Beleth's realm. Any Dream they enter is automatically, barring Intervention, transported to Blandine's side of the Marches, and will remain there so long as the Bonakim stays. Unfortunately, they're very easy to find; others may add the Bonakim's Ethereal Forces to any attempts to spot them. David: Can use their Resonance to Forgive the misunderstandings within a group of people for a number of hours equal to the check digit of their roll. This is essentially the opposite of Imbroglio, and the two invoked together will cancel out. Dominic: Wouldn't touch them with a ten foot Inquisitor. Eli: Eli's Bonakim have -no- Dissonance mechanics, being unbeholden to the actions of others. Gabriel: With purifying Flame, may burn out one Discord (of any Level, but only one Discord per use) from a subject; this costs both the Bonakim and the subject all of their Essence (meaning both must be `full' - and this applies to the 23-Force Angel of Munchkins just as much as any 4-Force Reliever with Discord), followed by a Will roll minus the Level of the Discord. If the roll succeeds, the Discord is gone; if it fails, the subject loses one Force, of the same type as the targeted Discord. (If the subject wishes, they may resist with their own Will roll from the beginning, but obviously, only -before- the Bonakim has made the attempt; if the resistance roll is successful, the Bonakim can't infuse them with the Flame.) This power can only be used when both are in Celestial form. Janus: Has none, which may be telling... Jean: For 1 Essence, they can create an odd device (that looks like the PKE detector from _Ghostbusters_); lasting for 1 minute per Ethereal Force, it can scan a human and determine whether their soul is currently balanced towards Heaven or Hell. The scanning takes about a minute as well. Jordi: Jordi's Bonakim have the odd attunement towards domesticated animals, of any species. They're easily the most urban of his Servitors, and usually spend more time Forgiving dogs their devotion to their Masters than they do Forgiving humans or Angels anything. Laurence: Doesn't believe in them, and would consider any rumors about `Bright Malakim' to be a personal insult. Marc: The Bonakim of Marc can spot automatically those toiling involuntarily under the yoke of another..and this includes Geases. They may break ordinary contracts by spending 1 Essence (with all dramatic effects - signatures vanish, photocopies halfway around the world fade to blank paper, etc), and may even break Geases, whether invoked or not, by spending Essence equal to the Geas Level and then making their Resonance roll. Self-imposed Geases (such as those of a Free Lilim, or otherwise taken upon oneself rather than imposed) simply cannot be broken, however. Michael: Have a special feel for the horrors of War, gaining a +2 to their Check Digit on any attempt to forgive something done in the heat of battle. (Obviously, this doesn't apply to granting Permission; "I think I'm going to get over-excited and bite his ear off" doesn't cut it.) With a Check Digit of 7 or 8, they may permanently Forgive Dissonance gained in this way. Novalis: Novalis may actually BE one of these, and not the Cherub she's usually considered. (Wouldn't David be just tickled?) Her Bonakim do NOT subtract the Level of a Discord they're Forgiving from their roll, and can, after the fact, -permanently- remove any harmful internal effects (Dissonance, guilt) engendered in pure self defence (even after the fact!), provided a full confession is made to them within one day per Ethereal Force possessed by the Bonakim. However, with that one exception, they CANNOT Forgive violence and the direct results thereof. Yves: If a confession is made to a Bonakim of Yves, they will know whether it is truly sincere or not; if it is, their Resonance roll can be counted as an automatic success with a check digit equal to their Celestial Forces. [Just for the final note - somewhere in the back of my head are bubbling the Hamadhim, the Covetors, as Malakim who have managed to break free of their Vows and join the dark side of the force...so maybe I'll get the chance to finish that thought up and propose them as well...] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:18:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) > That I don't see so much; Lucifer was Seraphim, so he didn't HAVE > the Vows. (I still like Casca's thought - I'm pretty sure it was Casca's, > anyway - that Lucifer went because Light included free will...which is > essentially what you're saying here as well, but without making Lucifer a > Dark Malakim.) The "In Nomine" version of Lucifer, inasmuch as he has been characterized at all so far, strikes me as the sort who would explain the Fall, the War and all the rest (assuming he was in a good enough mood to answer the question, rather than smiting the asker), thus: "Well... it seemed like a good idea, at the time." :) - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:02:42 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine > >What I AM going to cast asparagus [sic] upon is the stuff below... > > "Gus is the cat, by the theater door..." Sorry, sorry... > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Okay, _we_ accept your apology, but the question is, will "Old Deuteronomy, just before dawn, through a silence you feel you could cut with a knife?" tom t. {dueling song verses, anyone?} ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:10:37 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A Few Questions > First off, is it allowable to make a character who serves a word-bound celestial who is not an AA or DP? You'd be missing out on attunements (I assume only AAs and DPs can grant attunements) but you'd have a much wider range of words to serve. I'd say sure, and I doubt you'd be missing attunements. In my eyes, the only difference between and Superior and a Word-bound is the amount of autonomy they have. Now, a servator of a Word-bound will have the dissonance restrictions of both the Word-bound and it's Superior, but thats the price you pay for extra powers... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:10:37 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Really Bad Perception Rolls > A Seraph, with a Perception of *4*???? Let's keep him off used-car > lots, or he'll get laughed right out of the next Seraphim Council > meeting . > > Seriously, though, I'd have to look hard at a character that was > that obviously focused on "other stuff" for strong signs of > munchkinism. If munchkinism were the name of the game, why would they take a Seraph, and a crippled one, at that? > I'm guessing the character probably only took 2 Celestial > Forces, right? I have done that for one of my characters, as well. Yes, the lack of resonance power sucks, but it makes for a more interesting character, and one that is less capable of self-sufficiency. (In case you are wondering, the character is a Kyrio, and I am slightly screwing myself in the bargain. Fortunately she has a vessel from Mike). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:10:37 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... > >> Guess who ;> > > > >Well, Haggenti fits it best, in a cause-effect way. Or maybe some > >other unnamed Prince (who is probably a good friend of Haggenti). > > Good friend of Haagenati? > > I'd say "lunch of" Well, maybe. OTOH, Haagenati tends to cause Famine, as a side effect, so I would think the Demon holding the word (and if there isn't one now, there will be - it's too big a word to let go) would be as chummy with Haagenati as is possible. > I don't think he was a demon prince at the time that Revelations > was written. Probably not - OTOH, Yyves might have had a heavy hand in writing it (the Bible), and he has uncanny foresight. > So whomever was originally supposed to be a Horseman has since > been eaten, and now he's going to take their place. There is that possibility. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:10:37 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... > > The writers of the Bible have been wrong on a couple of things, > > from the IN perspective. Being off on a demon's Word is > > relatively small. > > Actually, I don't recall much in IN that flat-out contradicts the > Bible. IN just adds a lot of detail not found in the Bible and > contradicts a lot of traditional views that have grown up in > the monotheistic religions. Hmmm - I don't know enough of the bible to know where it ends and the rest of dogma begins. I will have to look further... > Even the idea that angels are ignorant of which theology is true > is found in one of the epistles of Paul. Very nice...can you give an exact reference? That is an interesting idea - how many of you Bible quasi- authorities can find stuff that either supports or opposes the way IN is set up? This works for the Torah and Koran, too, as well as non-Biblical dogma (Papal creed, etc). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:10:37 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Beth of the Archives > >> (Am too! Just look at my license plate: ARCNGL ! ) > > > >The fact that the car is completely white, and just the thing you > >would think to see an unassuming angel driving, fits perfectly. > > It is *NOT* a white car! It's silver. My car is silver. Your car is silver-white. I simplified. > (And the car bfore her was smooth black. Same plate.) Hmmm - unless it was one of those really badass power cars, I can't see it having the same amount of feel. > >I think Novalis was put in there to be a "goody-two-shoes", not > >because she had any real justification. > > Hey, she's got to have *some* political savvy... Nothing seems to indicate it, and her real power overlaps with Eli's too much. She won't be a AA in *my* IN, let me assure you. High ranked word-bound of Eli, at best. > >Hey, congrats! Of course, you do realize this makes you the > >automatic target of tons of email. > > This is different from my normal operations? Point taken. > >So what powers do you have, now? (I got a vague sense from Kromm > >of what a Line Editor does, but...) > > Pen-Penultimate power. Eventually, I get power over the list, > apparently, but I haven't gotten any instructions about that yet. That doesn't tell me much... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:25:52 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) I'm afraid I disagree with the idea of Malakim being already "fallen". I've recently been skimming the Old Testament, and I've been finding some evidence for the existance of the Malakim. Here's a few of my favorites from Psalms: "O Lord, you God of vengeance, you God of vengeance, shine forth!" - Psalm 94:1 "The Lord is at your right hand... He will execute judgement among the nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter heads over the wide earth." - Psalm 110:5-6 "The Lord watches over all who love him, but the wicked he shall destroy." - Psalm 145:20 Just my two cents - - - Perry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:59:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Superior Intervention > So he's the Imp of the Perverse[1], then? > > cd > [1]: C.f. Ambrose Bierce. Don't you mean Edgar Allen Poe? ;'} > cd skogsberg > cd@alfakonsult.se | d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se Ops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:04:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Brilliant. I'm using this in my game. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:04:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) > I'm afraid I disagree with the idea of Malakim being already "fallen". > I've recently been skimming the Old Testament, and I've been finding some > evidence for the existance of the Malakim. Here's a few of my favorites > from Psalms: > > > "O Lord, you God of vengeance, you God of vengeance, shine forth!" > - Psalm 94:1 > > > "The Lord is at your right hand... He will execute judgement among the > nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter heads over the wide > earth." > - Psalm 110:5-6 > > > "The Lord watches over all who love him, but the wicked he shall destroy." > - Psalm 145:20 > Actually, the violent side of God makes the Fallen Malakim argument just that much stronger. God embodies GOOD and EVIL - he did, after all, create the World, and the World isn't all fluffy bunnies or genocide. And from heaven, he executes both. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #340 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.