From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Tue Sep 16 17:15:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01059 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:15:29 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA23379 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:56:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:56:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199709162156.QAA23379@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #344 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 344 In this digest: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim are Warriors? Yes they are! Re: IN> Malakim are Warriors? Yes they are! Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #339 Re: IN> A Few Questions IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #343 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #343 Re: IN> A Few Questions Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #339 Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #343 Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) Re: IN> Malakim are Warriors? Yes they are! Re: Songfluff (Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine) Re: IN> Superior Intervention Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) IN> Evolution in Action | BOFH Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) IN> Fluff - If God was an Infocom Geek IN> Smif art ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:58:56 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:20:11 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Oh, but an AA causing all that disturbance in a subway crowd! Tsk, tsk! > >That's okay, New Yorkers see weirder things than Laurence in their >breakfast cereal. :) >>Well, the first and last were always there: the first fails to sense >>conditions for a Geas, and the last was imposing the Geas. Actually, I'd >>look at it as the second changing from a passive, resistance only thing to >>an actual Lilim action. It's still just two chances to fail, only the >>mechanics of the second have changed. > >So the Geas isn't burned unless the person resists, twice? I don't see any reason to change that, but, hey, you're the one who pronounces canon. :) >>Some points: >>1. Will+Geaslevel will let high Will=12 Lilim unconditionally Geas most >>humans. The humans will have at most a CD of 6 while the Lilim will have a >>minimum CD of Geas+1, and she can spend Essence, which she couldn't before. > >Vicious. Not much more so than originally. In fact, maybe less so because the Lilim has to put points into Will, now. >>2. It lets her have a good chance of Geasing a Celestial--maybe too good a >>chance. With the Geas plus, she'll be able to outspend another Celestial >>boosting their CDs. > >Hmmmmm.... Sounds fun... > >I could see this, as a Ye Generic Player. But I'm not sure I want >to set my mark to it as a Line Editor yet. I'll let Karakash think >about it. Sounds fair. >>The problem I'm seeing is Lilith with all her Geas/3's with no real way for >>a PC Lilim to get out from under them without her doing at least 5 major >>tasks for Lilim. That's likely to bore the rest of the group. OTOH, if the >>Lilim can get some juicy Geases Lilith would like, she can trade them to >>Lilith and get out from under Lilith's thumb without boring the PCs to >>death. I'm seeing not just a balance issue, but a campaign issue here. > >I'm actually just the opposite -- those 5 major tasks are probably made >easier if the Lilim PC can convince the other PCs to go along with her >on it. So what the GM does is string them out as plot hooks (and sometimes >sneaking them in to get a "mole" in the party!). I would anticipate that >very few Free Lilim are going to actually get all their Geases called >in during play. I don't know. The idea of having five plots based on serving Lilith seems like four too many for most campaigns. If a Lilim could get a really good Geas to give to Lilith to release her from one of her Geases, I think that would be a plus. Just thinking as a GM, if you have a Free Lilim, you have to give her a chance to advance and choose her own destiny. As long as the Lilith Geases are hanging over her, she's not going to be a comfortable player. If she has to do a Geas/3 every story for 9 sessions, the other player's will be bored. She'd be monopolizing too much of the group time. I don't like single members of the group going off on private quests while the rest of the group is bored. I see this as a nearly pure playability issue: Without having a way for Lilim to get out of those 9 Geas/3's without boring the other players, they just aren't viable PCs. >True, the Superior can also kidnap them. Basically, I'd figure that if >someone's mouthing off to a Superior, they should Regret It. Sounds right to me. >>The difference I see is that the human had a choice: he decided to Need >>something. DD is just mind control. > >If someone held a human down and injected him with heroin against >his will? He can still resist the addiction and the Need. The difference is between humans being helpless pawns and having free will. I feel this is a very important issue for game feel. IN has stated it's a game where humans have free will; that should be lived up to. I'm not sure humans shouldn't have a fat Will bonus just because God created them with free will. It should be damn hard for a Celestial to force a human to do something, not the slam dunk it is now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:09:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] > > >tools to keep the balance. As an NPC explained, without Good or Evil, the > > >humans might well just go pfft, and THEN where would everyone be? > (I should follow this with the answer, which is "probably much happier", Huh. My guess was, "At the corner ice-cream shop," but only after I ruled out "Detroit." > in his own happy fairyland. It is possible, in fact, that Lucifer is > running the whole show. No one knows, because they aren't exactly hosting > their own call in talk shows. There's an amusing thought for the upper reaches of Heaven. "Hey, I've been promoted! Wahoo! I'm going upstairs! Yeah..hey, I don't mean to criticize, but isn't it awfully, well, HOT, up here?" (What, in all these years, NO ANGEL has EVER wondered why *no one comes back*? 'Course, now I'm getting "Sweeney Godd", so I should probably cut this short.) > > >It makes perfect sense to me in sort of a twisted way. There was no need > > >for honor or vengance against evil until the Fall, because it simply > > >didn't exist. Thus, the Malakim did not exist until the Fall - a retained 'Course, I'm not sure what MOST of the Choirs do up in Heaven. (Seraphim, for example, are particularly pointless up there - you CAN'T lie in the Angelic Tongue, after all...) > system right now that the GM can take some creative license. (If I didn't > want creative license, I'd go play Vampire.) (Once in a while, you say something that makes me think, "THAT'S why we like Em so much...") > It makes a Malakim a paradoxial creature, who needs to destroy Evil to > sustain itself, but if it succeeds in destroying Evil, it will, in turn, > ultimatly end it's own continued existance. So it must exact bloody Hey, kind of like the American Cancer Society. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:14:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] > To assist game-balance and make Kapharim (which I much prefer to > "Benekim," which can only be a cross-lingual pun of BENE vs MAL in > "Malakim," which really means "kings")... Me, too, but I wasn't quite sure enough on its stability to fully run with it. (If anyone out there can confirm `Kaphar' for me, I'd be happy..) > ...anyway, I'd say the proper use of Kapharim "freelance" forgiveness > is to let an angel avoid dissonance and discord so as to be able > to pursue the "spirit of the law" when the "letter of the law" gets > in the way. It lets a seraph tell a "white lie," or lets a cherub That's exactly what I'd had in mind, at any rate... > enough to finish its job, etc. Perhaps it is dissonant to a Kapharite > to simply use its power to "cheat." ...But I was having some difficulty writing it up as a solid `mechanic', because it's an intrinsically VERY grey area, so I left that mainly to the thought that they're going to draw trouble from Superiors if they get caught cheating... > As to musical imagery, perhaps Kapharim see themselves as > "accidentals." These are notes that don't fit the key-signature > but are musically necessary to carry on the theme. I like that... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:26:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Malakim are Warriors? Yes they are! Ptr Frdrick noted; > >Kingsly wrote > > That's actually an interesting note, just on the side - most > >Malakim seem equipped to take out demons Corporeally. Which is annoying, > >but hardly permanent..and they DON'T seem particularly required to > >actually destroy Demons Celestially. (Which is a good thing, given the > They get no bonuses to combat of any kind on any Plane. Even their > resistance to Trauma is noted as being because of their greater than average > experience of it, which arguably any Celestial could acquire. Arguably; *I* like the idea, but it's specifically noted as a trait of Malakim...broadening it would suggest Malakim who don't have it, and require at least some kind of ruling on, well, just how many times a year you have to get killed to get over it... > To argue that Malakim are better at combat than any other Choir is I believe > not supportable. However, they are still Heaven's Premier Warriors because I can think of several points to it; the Trauma note being the main, followed quickly by the two mandatory Vows. (If you're going to try to kill anyone `evil' and never surrender, you either learn to back that up, or become a favorite of Kobal...) The major `canon' influence, to me, that Malakim are intrinsically combative is the note that Novalis doesn't have many because `they're too violent'... > The War is not fought always with a sword, but the attitude of the Malakim > can as easily expressed through other vocations. The reporter who follows > every lead and never lets a story be cut or watered down because it is too > sensitive or too controversial. The aid worker who gets food and medical On the other hand...this is why I really prefer the idea that those Vows are open to interpretation, depending on the Superior. Malakim of Laurence should be seriously kick-butt (but then, ANYONE of Laurence should be at least passingly familiar with a bazillion ways to kill someone..); Malakim of Novalis should work more to Redeem Evil than punch its nose in; Malakim of Marc may well work much like your suggestion there, and those of David more towards teaching others to fight Evil than wasting their time doing it themselves...(It's amazing, they can point out, just how much MORE evil you stomp out by getting 300 people to do it for you, than just going out and stomping. And if those 300 people get 300 of their friends, who...er. Sorry, Avon is definitely a demon thing.) So...aye, personally, I'm strongly in favor of the idea that "not suffering Evil to live" entails striving against myriads of evils in myriads of ways...NOT necessarily killing each individual evil they meet. (And the, "when it's his choice" aspect DOES mean that if they're busy with one way, they don't have to let it go to work on another they just noticed...so, going back to the recent Malakim of David problem, the MoD could just note that beating up every demon with an attitude problem who comes by is going to seriously detract from the work he's doing against the evils of gang violence, and ignore the twit.) Heck, given this, a Malakim becomes playable in a mixed-focus party, able to actually, honestly (and honorably, I might add) work WITH some demons against what he perceives as a greater evil... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:14:04 EST From: P Subject: Re: IN> Malakim are Warriors? Yes they are! > Heck, given this, a Malakim becomes playable in a mixed-focus .>party, able to actually, honestly (and honorably, I might add) work WITH >some demons against what he perceives as a greater evil... Yay! Playable Malaks! - -Perry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:40:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis C Hwang Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #339 On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 10:24 PM -0700 9/14/97, Dennis C Hwang wrote: > >On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Jo Hart wrote: > >>>From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) > >>> > >>>Who has the Word Evolution? Eli? > >> > >> Vapula, surely. > >> > >Umm......why? > > Simple -- the smart people stay away from Vap's stuff, and the > dumb ones don't. So the smart ones breed, which evolves the > entire race... Hmmm. Does that apply to the rest of the life forms on this planet, too? Actually, I guess it would, in many instances. So Vapula, to extend the metaphor, is in charge of the "build a better mousetrap" mentality. Not to mention the "let's use this cool new antibiotic as much as possible" (evolving dozens of strains of resistant microbes) mentality... ;) - --Dennis dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu xenopathologist at large! Deathwalker for President: for some *real* health care reform. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:37:44 +0100 From: "cd skogsberg" Subject: Re: IN> A Few Questions Nathaniel Eliot wrote: [Where are the principalities?] > > > > In Hell. (That's what a Demon Prince's domain is called...) > > I'm getting this image of Satan killing and carving up Celestial > corpses to build hell in, like the Norse creation myths. I *know* > that's not what you meant, but... Anyone remember that old, old Pyramid article that presented Him Upstairs and Lucifer as Superiors? In that, there was mentions of how Lucifer had carved the Caverns of Hell from the undying corpse of the Metatron, which was a pretty evocative passage. cd - -- cd skogsberg, Starving Freshthing @ CTH, CSc cd@alfakonsult.se | d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se ~I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:41:17 -0500 From: Christopher Scott Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #343 >>Eek. I don't live in an area where Pyramid is easily findable...can anyone >>email me a Reader's Digest version of this story? =) > >There was once a Shedite named Legion The end. Thank you, nice Archangel Person. =) >>In case anyone's interested, I might post what I've got for Mihr and for >>Anael, my idea of the Archangel of Love. > >Note that Anael is also a Malakite of Creation, in service to Fire, >from a Pyramid. Just so you know.... Argh! Pyramid strikes again. This sort of thing bugs the heck out of me. *grin* Is information "canon" or "apocryphal" if it isn't in an actual IN supplement? I son't know if I want to subscribe to a whole magazine for an occasional article. ;) >- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Christopher Scott iago@ozarks.net Evil Manipulator and Fake Redhead UIN 668360 www.geocities.com/~topherscott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:05:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #343 > > > > > > > > Argh! Pyramid strikes again. This sort of thing bugs the heck out of me. > *grin* > Is information "canon" or "apocryphal" if it isn't in an actual IN > supplement? I son't know if I want to subscribe to a whole magazine for an > occasional article. ;) > Just FYI, Pyramid tends to have at least *two* articles for In Nomine per issue. Not quite an In Nomine magazine, but the next best thing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:36:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A Few Questions At 10:40 PM +0000 9/15/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> >Finally, I was wondering about the Pseudo-Dionysian choir scheme as it >> >relates to IN...we have seraphim, cherubim, thrones, powers, virtues, and >> >dominations. We have archangels, although not as a choir. I'm assuming the >> >Mercurians are the plain ol' angels. So where are the principalities? >> >> In Hell. (That's what a Demon Prince's domain is called...) > >I'm getting this image of Satan killing and carving up Celestial >corpses to build hell in, like the Norse creation myths. I *know* >that's not what you meant, but... Hey, if the mental image is good, then go for it... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:35:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) At 5:41 PM -0400 9/15/97, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 4:08 PM -0400 9/13/97, Casca wrote: >>On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> >>> That I don't see so much; Lucifer was Seraphim, so he didn't HAVE >>> the Vows. (I still like Casca's thought - I'm pretty sure it was Casca's, >>> anyway - that Lucifer went because Light included free will...which is >>> essentially what you're saying here as well, but without making Lucifer a >>> Dark Malakim.) >> >>Yup, that was me. :) Rather proud of that post, and slightly puzzled as >>to why it hasn't made it onto AA Beth's website.....ah well. Don't try to >>eff the ineffable, and all that. ;) > > I thought it was an interesting view, and one that might >spark ideas for GMs. Excuse me. I really shouldn't answer email while my head is in the future. Light-including-free-will *is* slated to go onto the INC, and may even be sitting around waiting for me to patch it in somewhere. Now, I shall go bang my head against a wall... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:49:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) At 2:58 AM +0000 9/16/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:20:11 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy > wrote: [...] >>>Well, the first and last were always there: the first fails to sense >>>conditions for a Geas, and the last was imposing the Geas. Actually, I'd >>>look at it as the second changing from a passive, resistance only thing to >>>an actual Lilim action. It's still just two chances to fail, only the >>>mechanics of the second have changed. >> >>So the Geas isn't burned unless the person resists, twice? > >I don't see any reason to change that, but, hey, you're the one who >pronounces canon. :) I'm not pronouncing canon here, yet. I'm just kicking around some ideas to see if they bruise. And trying to see if we're reaching any sort of "we both think this". >>>Some points: >>>1. Will+Geaslevel will let high Will=12 Lilim unconditionally Geas most >>>humans. The humans will have at most a CD of 6 while the Lilim will have a >>>minimum CD of Geas+1, and she can spend Essence, which she couldn't before. >> >>Vicious. > >Not much more so than originally. In fact, maybe less so because the Lilim >has to put points into Will, now. True... >>>The problem I'm seeing is Lilith with all her Geas/3's with no real way for >>>a PC Lilim to get out from under them without her doing at least 5 major >>>tasks for Lilim. That's likely to bore the rest of the group. OTOH, if the >>>Lilim can get some juicy Geases Lilith would like, she can trade them to >>>Lilith and get out from under Lilith's thumb without boring the PCs to >>>death. I'm seeing not just a balance issue, but a campaign issue here. >> >>I'm actually just the opposite -- those 5 major tasks are probably made >>easier if the Lilim PC can convince the other PCs to go along with her >>on it. So what the GM does is string them out as plot hooks (and sometimes >>sneaking them in to get a "mole" in the party!). I would anticipate that >>very few Free Lilim are going to actually get all their Geases called >>in during play. > >I don't know. The idea of having five plots based on serving Lilith seems >like four too many for most campaigns. No more than 5 plots based on serving any of the other characters' Superiors is "too many." Besides, if the GM felt like it, all *nine* of those Geasa could wind up in the hands of somebody else, from Odin to Vapula to Jack Smith who did Lilith a good turn when she was in a giving mood. >If a Lilim could get a really good >Geas to give to Lilith to release her from one of her Geases, I think that >would be a plus. Oh, I'm sure that could work! No problem. It would be a "I want to trade you this Geas for one of the Geases on me" deal. I'm sure that Lilith might be interested. >Just thinking as a GM, if you have a Free Lilim, you have to give her a >chance to advance and choose her own destiny. As long as the Lilith Geases >are hanging over her, she's not going to be a comfortable player. One is not supposed to be a comfortable player when one is doing a Free Lilim. The Geasa are supposed to hang over one's head like a sword. It's why I love the Free Daughters so! (That's why mine has 9 Geas/6's...) >If she has to do a Geas/3 every story for 9 sessions, the other players >will be bored. She'd be monopolizing too much of the group time. I don't >like single members of the group going off on private quests while the >rest of the group is bored. I see this as a nearly pure playability >issue: Without having a way for Lilim to get out of those 9 Geas/3's >without boring the other players, they just aren't viable PCs. Well, it's roughly 9 weeks of work, generally... And you *don't* (*shouldn't*!) have to use them all up in a row! (Heck, sometimes she might get Geased to help out one of the other PCs, when that PC's Superior bought the Geas...) The main reason that the Free *have* those Geases is so that they have the same plot-hooks as everyone else. Other PCs get ordered around by their Superiors; Lilim get ordered around by Geas-holders. It's the "This Way To The Plot" mechanism. If the GM *chooses* to run too many "Get Beth's Geasa knocked down a little" adventures in a row, then that's a GMing problem. The number of "Geas called in" plots should be equal to the number of "Superior gives orders" plots. Sometimes they should be the same plot, sometimes it should be a case of the group is ordered to do something while the Lilim is ordered to sabotage it. (One of the adventure seeds on the INC has a plotline like that...) Sometimes the rest of the group is ordered and the Lilim is helping because she's trading favors (for the next time that she'll need the help!). Game-years could pass between those Geases being called in. They probably should, too. >>>The difference I see is that the human had a choice: he decided to Need >>>something. DD is just mind control. >> >>If someone held a human down and injected him with heroin against >>his will? > >He can still resist the addiction and the Need. Maybe, though it does muck with the body-chemistry. >The difference is between humans being helpless pawns and having >free will. I feel this is a very important issue for game feel. >IN has stated it's a game where humans have free will; that should >be lived up to. > >I'm not sure humans shouldn't have a fat Will bonus just because God >created them with free will. It should be damn hard for a Celestial to >force a human to do something, not the slam dunk it is now. There's a reason why a lot of stuff is "barring celestial intervention"... And celestials get free will as well -- just mostly less of it... No opinion on that one... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 12:10 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #339 >>>>Who has the Word Evolution? Eli? >>> >>> Vapula, surely. >>> >>Umm......why? > >Simple -- the smart people stay away from Vap's stuff, and the >dumb ones don't. So the smart ones breed, which evolves the >entire race... Never forget that Vapula is a Habbalite.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:50:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Malakim [Longish] At 10:09 PM -0600 9/15/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> > >It makes perfect sense to me in sort of a twisted way. There was no need >> > >for honor or vengance against evil until the Fall, because it simply >> > >didn't exist. Thus, the Malakim did not exist until the Fall - a retained > 'Course, I'm not sure what MOST of the Choirs do up in Heaven. >(Seraphim, for example, are particularly pointless up there - you CAN'T >lie in the Angelic Tongue, after all...) Go to the higher check digits -- they can know if you know the Truth, why you chose to tell what you did, if you've told the whole truth as you believe it... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:55:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #343 At 8:41 AM -0500 9/16/97, Christopher Scott wrote: >>>Eek. I don't live in an area where Pyramid is easily findable...can anyone >>>email me a Reader's Digest version of this story? =) >> >>There was once a Shedite named Legion The end. > >Thank you, nice Archangel Person. =) You're welcome! >>>In case anyone's interested, I might post what I've got for Mihr and for >>>Anael, my idea of the Archangel of Love. >> >>Note that Anael is also a Malakite of Creation, in service to Fire, >>from a Pyramid. Just so you know.... > >Argh! Pyramid strikes again. This sort of thing bugs the heck out of me. >*grin* Did I say you *couldn't* use it? I just thought you should know, so you could decide how much confusion you want to spread. (Hail, Eris!) >Is information "canon" or "apocryphal" if it isn't in an actual IN >supplement? I son't know if I want to subscribe to a whole magazine for an >occasional article. ;) Apocrypha, I think, though some of it (especially depending on author) may enhance or clarify implications in the main text. But if Derek writes something, there's a good chance that it will become canon later. (Not *automatically*, but a good chance.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:09:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Excuse me. I really shouldn't answer email while my head is in > the future. Light-including-free-will *is* slated to go onto > the INC, and may even be sitting around waiting for me to patch it > in somewhere. Coolness. If you can't find it, I'll send you my copy. Along with the "Dominic as Balseraph" and "Eli is God" posts, if you like.... > Now, I shall go bang my head against a wall... *interposes hand between head and wall* Don't do that. You'll scuff your halo. ;) - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:48:47 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Malakim are Warriors? Yes they are! > Why are Malakim regarded as Heaven's Premier Warriors? It appears that they > are, but then Michael is a Seraph. > > The Malakim Resonance does not seem to help them in any direct conflict. > They get no bonuses to combat of any kind on any Plane. Even their > resistance to Trauma is noted as being because of their greater than average > experience of it, which arguably any Celestial could acquire. > > Most Malakim I have seen tend towards a direct, combative and mostly > Corporeal style, but that is because they have been designed that way. > Change their Choir to Seraph or Cherub and you get very little game effect, > change it to Ofanim and they might even be better Corporeal fighters because > of that Choir's ability to enhance dodges. You've hit the nail right on the head without realizing it! Due to the nature of their Resonance/Dissonance, they _must_ become superb warriors, in most cases. Yes, they are designed that way, but you could have easily said that the more combative celestial spirits chose to become Malakim and continued to hone their skills to carry out their mission better. "Never suffer and evil to live" is their first oath, and the most important. This generally requires firepower of some sort... especially if you run into Demons! Malakim are 'combat monsters' not because of their Resonance, but because that's the way they _live_. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:10:49 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: Songfluff (Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 12:02 PM -0500 9/13/97, tom timberlake wrote: > >> >What I AM going to cast asparagus [sic] upon is the stuff below... > >> > >> "Gus is the cat, by the theater door..." Sorry, sorry... > > > >Okay, _we_ accept your apology, but the question is, will "Old > >Deuteronomy, just before dawn, through a silence you feel you could cut > >with a knife?" > >{dueling song verses, anyone?} > > Oh, Mystical Divinity, of Unashemed Felinity! > > (Feline, fearless, faithful and true, to others who -- do! -- what! > Jelicles can and Jelicles do!) > > Ahem. Right, right, time for me to slink away... (I own the CD, > and it has The Words. I'll take ya all on... And Phantom, and > any number of filk tapes...) [Whap]{sound of Legend of the Five Rings CCG card hitting table}---Arch Beth bends over and sees card, reads "Another Time Reaction: Play this card as a focus during a duel. When this card is revealed, the duel is cancelled. All effects of the duel are cancelled. All focused cards are discarded without effect. flavor text "He was about to deal the killing blow, but my cousins dragged him away, calling my name..."" Before we get flamed for off topic posting, Arch Beth? tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:29:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Superior Intervention On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > Do you mean perverse as in an odd or strange mind, or merely one prone > to contrariness? If you mean the latter, then I must say that that is > precisely what I am talking about. If you can find it, Poe's story, > "The Imp of the Perverse", does with a person's tendency to do such. That's exactly what I meant when I suggested the Word of Contrariness for Edelstein, but apparently he interpreted it as name-calling.... - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:54:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) At 1:09 PM -0400 9/16/97, Casca wrote: >On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Excuse me. I really shouldn't answer email while my head is in >> the future. Light-including-free-will *is* slated to go onto >> the INC, and may even be sitting around waiting for me to patch it >> in somewhere. > >Coolness. If you can't find it, I'll send you my copy. Along with the >"Dominic as Balseraph" and "Eli is God" posts, if you like.... Dommie as Balseraph, at least in part, is on the INC as of earlier today. Check and see if I left anything out? I need to get the Eli as God selection together, and the Free Will bit. Yeah, sending them along will at least reduce the amount of searching I have to do. >> Now, I shall go bang my head against a wall... > >*interposes hand between head and wall* >Don't do that. You'll scuff your halo. ;) Oh, that's okay, I use a rubber one anyway. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:47:19 +0100 From: "cd skogsberg" Subject: IN> Evolution in Action | BOFH Archangel Beth wrote: >>>>Who has the Word Evolution? Eli? >>> >>> Vapula, surely. >>> >>Umm......why? > >Simple -- the smart people stay away from Vap's stuff, and the >dumb ones don't. So the smart ones breed, which evolves the >entire race... Slightly tangential question; does anyone think that the Bastard Operator from Hell or (US mirror site) would make a nice Calabite of Vapula? (Whether you agree or not, read and laugh. Esp. "'I need more space.' 'Why don't you move to Texas?'" cd - -- cd skogsberg, Starving Freshthing @ CTH, CSc cd@alfakonsult.se | d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Malakim (was IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling) On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Dommie as Balseraph, at least in part, is on the INC as of earlier > today. Check and see if I left anything out? I got a 404 error, so there's something wrong with the link. > I need to get the Eli as God selection together, and the Free Will bit. > Yeah, sending them along will at least reduce the amount of searching I > have to do. Consider them sent. > >> Now, I shall go bang my head against a wall... > > > >*interposes hand between head and wall* > >Don't do that. You'll scuff your halo. ;) > > Oh, that's okay, I use a rubber one anyway. O:> How Kobalic. }:) - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:53:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: IN> Fluff - If God was an Infocom Geek Sorry, this is a little fluff that I got off our bulliten board, which apparently came out of an Infocom idea session. :) If God was an Infocom geek: THE CREATION Infocom interactive fiction - a very old story Copyright (c) 1985 by Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved. THE CREATION is a trademark of Infocom, Inc. Release 42 / Serial number 271828 Void All is unformed and void; and darkness is upon the face of the deep. >VERSION This is the Authorized Version of King James. >TIME It is the beginning. >WHO AM I You are that you are. >EXAMINE DARKNESS You can't see the darkness without a light! >LET THERE BE LIGHT Okay, there is light. >EXAMINE THE LIGHT It is good. >DIVIDE THE LIGHT FROM THE DARKNESS It is so. >CALL THE LIGHT "DAY" THEN CALL THE DARKNESS "NIGHT" Called. Called. >EXAMINE NIGHT AND DAY night: There is evening. day: There is morning. >TIME It is the first day. >LET THERE BE A FIRMAMENT Okay, there is a firmament. >FIRMAMENT, DIVIDE THE WATERS FROM THE WATERS [Which waters do you mean, the lower waters or the upper waters?] >LOWER [Which waters do you mean, the lower waters or the upper waters?] >UPPER It is so. >CALL THE FIRMAMENT "HEAVEN" Called. >TIME It is the second day. >GATHER TOGETHER THE LOWER WATERS UNTO ONE PLACE Gathered. >LET THERE BE DRY LAND It is so. >CALL THE DRY LAND "EARTH" THEN CALL THE GATHERED WATERS "SEAS" Called. Called. >EXAMINE ALL It is good. >EARTH, BRING FORTH GRASS AND HERB AND FRUIT TR grass: It is so. herb: It is so. fruit tree: It is so. >EXAMINE ALL It is good. >TIME It is the third day. >MAKE TWO GREAT LIGHTS Made. >GREATER LIGHT, RULE THE DAY Ruled. >LESSER LIGHT, RULE THE NIGHT Ruled. >MAKE THE STARS ALSO Made. >SET BOTH LIGHTS IN THE FIRMAMENT Set. >EXAMINE ALL It is good. >TIME It is the fourth day. >CREATE GREAT WHALES, AND ALL LIVING CREATURES IN THE WATERS, AND ALL WINGED FOWL whales: Made. goldfish: Made. sea horses: Made. ... crocs: Made. emus: Made. >EXAMINE ALL It is good. >CREATURES, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND FILL THE WATERS IN THE SEAS "Okay." >TIME It is the fifth day. >MAKE THE BEAST OF THE EARTH AND CATTLE AND ALL CREEPING THINGS beast: Made. cattle: Made. zebras: Made. yaks: Made. platypuses: Made. ... cockroaches: Made. >EXAMINE ALL It is good. >CREATE MAN AND WOMAN IN MY OWN IMAGE man: Made. woman: Made. >BLESS THEM Blessed. >THEM, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND REPLENISH THE EARTH AND SUBDUE IT "No problem." >THEM, HAVE DOMINION OVER THE FISH AND THE FOWL AND ALL LIVING THINGS "You got it." >EXAMINE ALL Behold, it is very good. >TIME It is the sixth day. >REST Time passes... >TIME It is the seventh day. >BLESS THE SEVENTH DAY Blessed. >SANCTIFY IT [Be specific: what object do you want to sanctify?] >THE SEVENTH DAY Sanctified. >QUIT Your score is 350 (total of 350 points), in 47 moves. This gives you the rank of God. Do you wish to leave the game? (Y is affirmative): >Y - - - - - - Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Applications Programmer III and Hand of God Patron Saint of ACI-1 Desktop Applications Team Medical Center Information Technology Phone: (313) 936-3576 Current Quote: I'm not manic-depressive, I'm digital. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:27:32 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Smif art Out of curiosity, does anyone know when the Dan Smith Art Auction page will be moving again with some more art? I only discovered it last month at the tail of the Ofanite bidding, and it's been sitting empty for a few weeks now. (Mind you, shipping to England.. ouch. Oh well.) - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #344 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.