From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Sep 21 23:02:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23645 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:02:35 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA22163 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:38:44 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:38:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199709220338.WAA22163@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #351 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, September 21 1997 Volume 01 : Number 351 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon Re: IN> The Marches: A review Re: IN> Malakim IN> My take on Fallen Malakim... Re: IN> Malakim Re: IN> In Nomine Canon RE: IN> Eros and Sade (longish) Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:53:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Highway Star wrote: > What is this, Callahan's Cross-Tether Saloon on Punday? Sounds good. > > Whoa. Now there's an idea. Mike Callahan - he claims to be human, but we > all know he's really a Cherubim... What are Mickey Finn, Lady Sally, Mary Calahan, and Jake Stonebender then? Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:48:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: A review In a message dated 97-09-20 01:29:52 EDT, you write: << I think it's an open skull (note the thing that looks sorta like a brain) with an open screaming mouth with a lot of jaggy teeth beneath it. Just a guess, mind you... >> Personally I liked page 72 of the Marches...the demonling trying to eat the lamp while the light shines out of his eyes. That is just sooo cool. - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:27:58 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim > Well, no, the wedgie comment was mine...MaBarry was suggesting > Kyriotates primary purpose might be the network keeping tabs on > everybody (particularly, in context, Malakim.) Then you win the "pick a fight with a KoW" contest... > > Can you think of fighting something that can literally comes from all > > sides at once? > Well, yeah. (We've had a `herdmind' in our Amber world for..years > now, to say nothing of hivemind.) All told, it's not going to be THAT > much different from fighting eight separate somethings, also literally > coming from all sides at once. Cooridination. Read the Kyriotate example given in the main book - other angels would have to work for a long time to set up something like that, and the Kyrio does it routinely. > > > line for a shot at a Fallen Malakim at this stage of things...if > > > only to tweak Lawrence. > > > > Oooh - Kobal and Vapula working over a Outcast Malakim, trying to see > > if he falls. Makes an interesting adventure seed... > > Probably the major point to that second Vow, but considering an > Outcast Malakim has probably broken a Vow or six in the past... All you have to do is warp what they think evil is. If they could be convinced that God's will was an evil tyranny, they'd rebel. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. - George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:43:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> My take on Fallen Malakim... [The following was inspired by the latest (most recent) iteration of a certain recurrent discussion. Am I high? Quite possibly. If I were you, though, I'd reserve judgment until I'd finished reading this... Oh, and apologies to David Eddings for stealing a name from his works. - - aloomis] CHANDIM - THE HOUNDS _This had not been one of Shiroel's better days. In fact, starting from the moment when his Servant's alarm clock had gone off, two hours late and just as Shiro and a Calabite were simultaneously arriving at the mortal's door, it had begun as basically shitty and gone downhill from there. It was a good thing Shiro was a Mercurian or he'd have been mad at the world and everyone in it, instead of just at the world. And to top it off, there was that damn dog again, or one of those dogs anyway. It seemed as though the black dog had been following him everywhere he went all day, but given that he'd taken shortcuts through the Symphony a number of times, that notion ranked somewhere between merely impossible and actually ludicrous. He ducked down the alley. It ought to be a shortcut to the mee- ting he was taking tonight. It wasn't. It was a dead end. As he moved toward the alley, the black dog appeared in its mouth - -- was it just a trick of the light, or were its eyes really glowing red? "Uh...nice doggy?" The dog growled. Shiro backed away nervously...and his feet went out from under him. The landing wouldn't have hurt so much if his wings had been there to cushion him. And the dog was laughing. Not just lolling its tongue out the way canines do when they laugh, but making laugh-noises like a human. "Where the hell did *you* come from, mutt?" he snapped, finally losing his patience. "Exactly," said the dog. Okay, this wasn't a corporeal dog. Just a demon in a dog ves- sel. Fine. That meant he could expiate its sorry ass with *no* guilt over possibly whacking some guy's pet. He whipped out his holy pistol, aimed right between the eyes, and pulled the trigger. The gun jammed. Shiro would have sworn blind that wasn't even possible. "What *are* you?" "The usual. Your worst nightmare." And with that, the demon went for the Mercurian's throat..._ According to Heaven's official party line, no Malakite has ever fallen; but remember, the angel who stated that presumption most succinctly -- the one who said "Malakim don't go bad" -- was a Malakite himself, *not* a Seraph. Ask Dominic or Michael sometime -- and *look* in their eyes when you ask -- and you might hear a different story. Well, probably not from Dommie, actually, but the straight-shooting Mike might well lay the Truth on you, if he thinks you can handle it. Legends from many cultures speak of what might be called "hell- hounds," evil (or at least unfriendly) spirits in the form of dogs. Some of these are Marches spirits, or demons in dog vessels. Others are much darker creatures, the true Hounds of Hell. The original Chandim were formerly a handful of Malakim whom Lucifer duped into renouncing their Oaths. Only one survived the First War, and he's long gone now, but he lasted long enough to provide a tem- plate, and now and again, a Prince will create some new ones in their image, or some Malakite will rack up enough Discord to shatter his con- nection to the Symphony. "What happens to Malakim when they go bad?" You're about to find out -- the easy way. Thank the god of your choice it's not the hard way. RESONANCE The Chandim are the Moddey Dhoo, the unlucky Black Dogs of Celtic folk- lore, or the Door Dogs of William S. Burroughs' _The Western Lands_. Using the power of their personal symphonies, they can bring bad luck to their targets. DISSONANCE Sometimes, in spite of having a Chandite dragging his luck down, a victim will manage to succeed, or simply do well, at something. When that hap- pens, the Chandite suffers dissonance. MANNER AND APPEARANCE Like their Malakite counterparts, and like most Djinn, Chandim don't worry themselves overmuch about the appearance of their vessels. Those that do, do so because they want to look as bad-assed as their opposite numbers. They get along as well with Djinn as any Band does. In fact, Chandim are often mistaken for Djinn. This tendency is heightened by their celestial forms -- black dogs, or rather, dog- shaped holes in space, with glowing red eyes and mouths. Many of them have dog vessels as well. Perhaps ironically, Chandim and Calabim get along about as well as Malakim and Ofanim. Chandim have the sense of humor that their oppo- sites lack, and they often rag on the Calabim because that Band's violent resonance is so unsubtle. Musically, the Hounds think of themselves as the thunderous sound of a kettledrum in your ear, making you jump six feet in the air, hit the ground running and promptly fall flat on your ass. GAME MECHANICS Before another character makes any d666 roll, the Chandite may use his resonance to penalize it. Before making the Will roll, he must declare whether he's penalizing the victim's target number or the check digit. Either way, the penalty he creates is equal to his own successful check digit. If he attacks the target number, the affected roll's target num- ber is reduced by the Chandite's check digit. If the victim succeeds despite this penalty, the Chandite suffers dissonance. If he attacks the check digit, he doesn't get dissonance for the victim's success, but if the victim's successful check digit is still a positive number after having the penalty applied, *that* will cause the Hound dissonance. (A victim's failed check digit will have the Chan- dite's successful check digit added to it for determining any penalties.) A Trinity roll on a Chandite's resonance roll means an automatic note of dissonance for the Hound. A Beast roll, on the other hand, will *remove* a note from the Chandite's current dissonance. BAND ATTUNEMENTS Most of the Band Attunements for Chandim add one of their categories of Forces to their resonance roll under certain circumstances. Thus, to simplify the repetition, I'll simply note the category of Forces and the circumstances in which the bonus is gained. ALAEMON: Ethereal, when using their resonance to prevent a secret from being uncovered. ANDREALPHUS: Celestial, when applying it to a victim's attempt to resist Seduction. ASMODEUS: Chandim of the Game take some of the same Roles as Djinn or Habbalah -- security guards, policemen, private detectives, and other jobs that give them an excuse to follow people around. BAAL: Corporeal, in a combat situation. BELETH: Ethereal, while in the Marches. BELIAL: Corporeal, when trying to cause destruction. FLEURITY: Ethereal, when affecting a victim's roll to resist becoming addicted to a drug or succumbing to an addiction he already has. FURFUR: Corporeal, in a generally violent situation, such as a crowded mosh pit. (At an informal meeting of the Princes of Hell shortly after Furfur's little stunt, Kobal voted the new Prince of Hard- core "Most Likely to Make His Own Chandim.") HAAGENTI: Corporeal, when using their resonance to make someone succumb to Gluttony or any other excuse for destroying resources. Also, Gluttony's Chandim aren't required to purchase Consume, but if they opt not to take it, they must buy Devour instead, and gain dissonance if they go more than (Corp) days without using the attunement. KOBAL: Chandim serving Kobal can apply their resonance simultaneously to a victim's target number *and* his check digit, but they risk double dissonance if he still succeeds with a positive check digit. They regain Essence by making humans suffer extreme instances of Murphy's Law. KRONOS: Rather than merely creating bad luck, Kronos' Hounds may generate *good* luck if they so choose. Also, when working to guide a human to his fate (as shown to them by the Fated Future attune- ment), they add their Celestial Forces to any resonance roll used for this purpose. MALPHAS: Ethereal, to check digit, when applying it to reaction rolls or any skill roll involving personal interaction (Detect Lies, Emote, Fast-Talk, Lying, Savoir-Faire or Seduction). NYBBAS: The Media didn't have much use for Chandim until fairly recent times. Now, with the glut of "reality TV" shows, the Hounds have found their place in Nybbas' ranks, commanding the people who create and host these shows about ordinary people having minor or major mishaps. They add their Celestial Forces to any use of their resonance against a victim who has appeared on the show their servant hosts. SAMINGA: Death's Chandim can use their resonance as a direct attack, as if it were the Calabite resonance, but only against a mortal target -- the victim suffers, for instance, a sudden heart attack. VALEFOR: Ethereal, to any use of their resonance that reduces someone's vigilance -- e.g. affecting a security guard's Perception roll. VAPULA: Celestial, when affecting either technology or skills that inter- act with it. Their ability to exercise *some* control over their resonance is why the Prince of Technology lets them work for him and excludes the Calabim (a fact the Hounds like to rub the Freaks' noses in). Austin George "Band attunements for the apocryphal Princes may follow if anyone care enough" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:13:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Malakim > > now, to say nothing of hivemind.) All told, it's not going to be THAT > > much different from fighting eight separate somethings, also literally > > coming from all sides at once. > Cooridination. Read the Kyriotate example given in the main book - > other angels would have to work for a long time to set up something > like that, and the Kyrio does it routinely. How long can it really take to set up, "I'll distract him, you whop him from behind"? Humans do it all the time. Now, I'm not denying the Kyriotate has some advantages to it - he won't get in his own way so much, and he has the bonus of knowing EXACTLY what each of him is doing exactly when he's doing it. But from the perspetive of the person being attacked, these are relatively minor. (Especially in game terms, since there's no mechanic to account for 'em; but even in real life, it would take a VERY skilled opponent to be significantly disadvantaged by the added coordination like that, because only someone who really knows what they're doing could reasonably try to use multiple attackers against themselves anyway.) Take the classic gangboss giving a quick nod to his cronies, two of whom grab someone so he can beat them up without trouble. This requires no particular preparation, and won't be significantly less coordinated than a powerful Kyrio in three human Hosts pulling the same move (ignoring the irrelevancy that a Kyrio who can hold three human Hosts is going to be overwhelmingly more powerful than any human in any case; that's a sidepoint. I'm just giving him the advantage because two sparrows, even backed by 4 corporeal forces, can't grab someone's arms and hold them in place.) This bit of exquisite coordination can (and has) be pulled off by a few ordinary humans who've never met before and are very drunk... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:41:27 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon Shadowcat wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Highway Star wrote: > > > What is this, Callahan's Cross-Tether Saloon on Punday? > > Sounds good. > > > > > Whoa. Now there's an idea. Mike Callahan - he claims to be human, but we > > all know he's really a Cherubim... > > What are Mickey Finn, Lady Sally, Mary Calahan, and Jake > Stonebender then? Jake Stonebender: Cherub of Novalis, just recovering from the Discord when his [or his roles'] daughter and wife, both Attuned, died in a car wreck for which he though he was responsible. Lady Sally: A Malak of Gabriel who holds the Word of Passion [fires of the heart, don't you know], who is currently tasked, at the time of the books, with keeping the world from coming apart at the hinges, hence her House's location close to the UN. Mary Calahan:With her talent for monitoring multiple threads of action at a time [thus her job in the Monitor Room] is obviously a Reliever, born of Sally and Mike, who has become a Kyriotate who started in her mom's service but now Serves Jean. Mickey Finn:After his conversion to the Human's side against his former Masters, MF is a Redeemed in Service to Jean, but I am clueless about his Choir, but any guy who doesn't need a raincoat definitely is ahead of the technological bellcurve! tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:42:02 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: RE: IN> Eros and Sade (longish) Eros and Sade... :) I like it, Karen. Good stuff, here. - -Perry "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 22:50 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list > I think canonizing some >word other than superior for an immediate supervisor would greatly improve >the clarity of future In Nomine products. I've I like "supervisor", myself. Some of my (N)PCs use "Boss" for their Superior (OK, so they're angels of Creation, and Eli's not too big on titles....) >On a completely different tack, when celestials go ethereal they have the >appearance of their last corporeal vessel. So, what does a Kyrio look like >who has never had any vessel? The analogous thing for a Kyrio would be last host, I'd say. And if the celestial had never been in the corporeal realm at all, then celestial form would do.... > Maybe, the ethereal realm being >dreams, Celestials should be able to appear however they want, just by act >of Will? Dream-shaping (celestials and ethereals using Will, or mortals with lucid dreaming ability) can change one's appearance in the Marches (see Marches, p. 85). - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #351 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.