From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Sep 23 14:37:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16008 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:37:58 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA02093 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:45:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:45:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199709231845.NAA02093@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #354 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 354 In this digest: Re: IN> Angels in the media Re: IN> The Marches: A review Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN>Undead (was: Mundane soul-trading) Re: IN> The Marches: A review Re: IN> just a thought IN> Reading Material/Resources: IN> Another weird question... Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Re: IN> The Marches: A review Re: IN> Another weird question... Re: IN> Superiors and their coffee Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! Re: IN> just a thought IN> AndCon and IN IN> Demon of Soft Drinks IN> Demon of Unsafe Sex IN> The Angel of Cloves IN> Demon of Duelling Re: IN> just a thought ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:24:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angels in the media At 11:24 PM -0400 9/22/97, Kim Foster wrote: >I was curious if they're had beeen any discussion or interest in the >depication of Angels in popular media. Recently they seem to have been >popular with several movies and a television show (Which I have never seen, >people keep telling me it good.) Has anyone looked at this in In Nomine >terms? Are there any good ideas to plageri-err... creatively extropolate in >them? If you poke around the INC character collection, you can probably find some of Edelstein's conversions. I think it's the AA of Salvation...? (Check the ones that have a "*" next to them.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:20:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: A review At 9:48 PM -0400 9/22/97, Starcrossed wrote: >> >I can't tell which is Bruton's stuff - is it the stuff with the >> >computer generated bits? >> >> That's how I feel about Perez, I think. >> p. 33 is the only one that has an "HB" on it, but I suspect p. 37, >> maybe p. 43 & 45, 60, 69, 82 & 83, 97, maybe 98, 103 (smaller one), >> 104, 109 (the wolfhead), maybe 110, and 126. > >Don't forget p. 7 (Blandine), which I found to be one of his best -- they >*really* should have had the same artist draw Beleth and Blandine, given >their histories, though. p. 7 is Scavella -- note the "SCAV" on the arm of the chair. (And Bruton's a she, BTW.) Other Scavella is, I believe... p. 12, 62, *maybe* 63, 64, maybe 86, 99, 103 (upper). >(And it should have been HB, not RS. His art >doesn't do it for me, at least not for In Nomine. Wrong feel entirely.) (Interestingly enough, the Beleth piece is one of the RS works I actually kinda like. I think it's the bulldog-lion face in the background.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:26:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's At 4:14 AM -0500 9/23/97, Donald G Bixler wrote: >> Hi, I just placed an order for In Nomine with my local RPG store and I have >> been wondering what typical adventures entail generally in this game. Also, >> I was wondering if there were any plans to publish either formal adventure >> modules or licensed fiction of any sort in the future. > [...] >For some plot ideas, check out the In >Nomine Collection(s) (now available in Original, Paul Strack, and >Elizabeth McCoy flavors). http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/adventures.html And I can send them as HTML-marked text-files, for those without web-access. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:19:24 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list > On a completely different tack, when celestials go ethereal they have the > appearance of their last corporeal vessel. So, what does a Kyrio look like > who has never had any vessel? Or for that matter, a celestial who goes > straight to the ethereal realm, never having visited the corporeal plane? > Don't you hate questions like these? Maybe, the ethereal realm being > dreams, Celestials should be able to appear however they want, just by act > of Will? If it's been so long that neither the player nor GM can remember the last corporeal vessel (or if they have never had one) just use the standard celestial appearance. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:06:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > > underling theme of the campaign, that the players are just starting to > > relies now is that the diabolical are right and are conducting a > > justified rebellion against a maniacal heavenly government ( with or > Heh...well, generally avoiding the `Biblical' basis (since that > gets into more serious theology and religious debate..) No! No! Go for the debate! *salivate* > I like the general idea; I tend to take it as given that the > demons, on the whole, at least have good MOTIVES. There're some, > especially among those who were created in Hell and didn't Fall, who are > just nasty, but Lucifer and those he brought with him rebelled against > injustice, or at least perceived injustice. [stuff] > 'Course, it's probably worth putting a lot of the rest down to > publicity. (God had his book out way ahead of time, and with Jesus's > whirlwind signing tour...er...) Eg. Asmodeus is actually more the > `tough-but-fair' type... I like the general original idea in a sort of round about way, but it's far too cut and dry for me. The original concept is like starting from ground zero, except you've just interchanged the names. I dislike such clear boundaries, and once the players figure it out, they will be clear. I come from the camp of... well, yeah. My take on it is that the Fall was an awful long time ago, and things do change. The line isn't as clearly drawn in the sand as it once was. ArchAngels and Demon Princes have come and gone. Sure, there's an old school, but there's new kids now, too, with new views on things. I also come from the school that people like Andrealphus and Saminga really did Fall because they really did deserve to get kicked out of Heaven. At one time, there was Baal and Michael, Yves and Kronos. Clear boundaries. But if you look at the book, they just aren't that clear anymore. Nybbas may be evil, but some of his technology promotes Sesame Street. (You going to tell me Bert and Ernie are EVIL? To the corner with you for four hours!) Kobal's agents are just as good at using satire to expose some of the serious problems in the world as they are at making people feel ridiculous at funerals. Vapula fights Jean, but is keeping technology from humans REALLY a good thing? Medical technology falls under that umbrella just as much as computers or automobiles. At least Asmodeus's motives are clear, while Dominic has an Inquisition, and those suck. (And Janus and Valefor are the same guy, but people push that under the rug.) It's something to ponder. I like Heaven and Hell, but I also like the idea that humans need Good and Evil to continue to be Human. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:17:16 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN>Undead (was: Mundane soul-trading) > > Egyptians created mummies that _couldn't_ be risen because > > they didn't want them walking around (Night Music somewhere). The > > egyptian gods probably know some tricks. My non-canon opinion is > > that Saminga has some rarely-granted Attunements that he may give > > to some Vampires to let them create more vampires. > > Sounds like a good idea. However, renegade Vampires would be rather > impotent. Or at least their spawn will be. Perhaps there are some > Sorcerous ways of creating undead? I haven't read the Marches yet, but > Vampire Sorcerors sounds like a good idea. I think I'll go and bug my > local gaming shop keeper now, till he decides to order The Marches :) Please do bug him! If he says that it's his distributor, send the distributors name to the SJ sales directory. If _he_ won't carry it, there's always mail order! As for undead Sorcerers, they sound like a fun idea. Go for it. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:27:41 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: A review On Sep 20, 11:48pm, Calabim@aol.com wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: A review > In a message dated 97-09-20 01:29:52 EDT, you write: > > << I think it's an open skull (note the thing that looks > sorta like a brain) with an open screaming mouth with a lot > of jaggy teeth beneath it. Just a guess, mind you... > >> > > Personally I liked page 72 of the Marches...the demonling trying to eat the > lamp while the light shines out of his eyes. > > That is just sooo cool. Oh, I agree! That would be an awesome color shot! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:00:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> just a thought On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > So go ahead and play the game backwards. Just don't complain if some > of the rules look a little wonky when you read them in the mirror. O;> But I'm Dyslexic so they allready look wonky "UNLESS" they are in a mirror. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:04:00 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> Reading Material/Resources: Here is a list of books that I have found useful in plotting my In Nomine campaign: _Inferno_ Alligheri(sp?) Dante (the only one of the _Divine_Comedy_ I've read) _Inferno_ Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle (*fun* book) _Sympathy_for_the_Devil_ Holly Lisle (Hell invades the Carolinas!) _Angels,_an_Endangered_Species_ editor/author forgotten ("Non-fiction") _The_Book_of_Enoch_ pseudoepigraphic scripture (Lots of angel names/words) _The_Revelation_of_St._John_ Holy scripture (Living Creatures, Angels, etc.) I *was* going to use the "Big Four" as portrayed by Katherine Kurtz, but Rafe's dead, Mike's lost the armies of heaven, Gabe's nuts, and Uri's been recalled to HQ. Needless to say, to avoid confusing my players, I decided to simply use the In Nomine "canon." This isn't everything that deals with our topic, just my favorites Mark (who is trying his best to keep up) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:17:35 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> Another weird question... Who is Moroni (the patron angel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/Mormonism) in IN terms? I personally have two options, one light, one dark: Lightside: Moroni is a Seraph or Elohite of Yves who was sent to Joseph Smith to create yet another "necessary" religous movement. Darkside: Moroni is a Belseaph of Kobal working with Kronos to really torque off Dominic and Laurence. Mark (This one came up during a post-game chat...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:32:59 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: Re: IN> just a thought Emily K. Dresner wrote: > No! No! Go for the debate! *salivate* > I agree a little health theology never hurt anybody > > I like the general idea; I tend to take it as given that the > > demons, on the whole, at least have good MOTIVES. There're some, > > especially among those who were created in Hell and didn't Fall, who > are > > just nasty, but Lucifer and those he brought with him rebelled > against > > injustice, or at least perceived injustice. > > [stuff] > > > 'Course, it's probably worth putting a lot of the rest down to > > > publicity. (God had his book out way ahead of time, and with > Jesus's > > whirlwind signing tour...er...) Eg. Asmodeus is actually more the > > `tough-but-fair' type... > > I like the general original idea in a sort of round about way, but > it's > far too cut and dry for me. The original concept is like starting > from > ground zero, except you've just interchanged the names. I dislike > such > clear boundaries, and once the players figure it out, they will be > clear. > > I come from the camp of... well, yeah. My take on it is that the Fall > was > an awful long time ago, and things do change. The line isn't as > clearly > drawn in the sand as it once was. ArchAngels and Demon Princes have > come > and gone. Sure, there's an old school, but there's new kids now, too, > > with new views on things. I also come from the school that people > like > Andrealphus and Saminga really did Fall because they really did > deserve to > get kicked out of Heaven. > First Saminga didn't fall he never was an anglesecond the boundaries as I have them actually set up are not that cut and dry 1) God is not perfect only extremely powerful 2) Lucifer is not evil only enlightened and more then a ittle cynical 3) #'s one and two are not common knowledge so a good # of the heavenly host actually believe they are serving a perfect GOD against a true EVIL the fanatic Christian angels fall into this trap more easily so you see even Dominic the darkest of the heavenly host is not evil just miss informed and over zealous. > At one time, there was Baal and Michael, Yves and Kronos. Clear > boundaries. But if you look at the book, they just aren't that clear > anymore. Nybbas may be evil, but some of his technology promotes > Sesame > Street. (You going to tell me Bert and Ernie are EVIL? To the corner > > with you for four hours!) Kobal's agents are just as good at using > satire > to expose some of the serious problems in the world as they are at > making > people feel ridiculous at funerals. Vapula fights Jean, but is > keeping > technology from humans REALLY a good thing? Medical technology falls > under that umbrella just as much as computers or automobiles. At > least > Asmodeus's motives are clear, while Dominic has an Inquisition, and > those > suck. (And Janus and Valefor are the same guy, but people push that > under > the rug.) > I dont personally believe even these bondries are nessasarally all > that clear either Micheal and Baal were comrades in arms befor the > fall both longe for the armagadon have you noticed how little there > idiology differes other then what side they work for > It's something to ponder. I like Heaven and Hell, but I also like the > > idea that humans need Good and Evil to continue to be Human. I agree again but as the game intentionally leaves the question of celestial free will up in the are I am forced to use my own logic if a # of angels intentionally rebelled against GOD they must have free will and I take that to mean that they have the same requirements for good and evil potentiality as humans know look at it this way as it is how it is run in my game the demons were unjustly booted from heaven for refusing to place themselves beneath man, hell is not a nice place for human souls because there just a little bitter. the angels fight for man because they were told to and the demon want to see the humans removed from heaven entirely so they can resume there rightful place to summarize the wronged demons fight the oppressive regime to establish there " rightful " place above man rather then beneath man right even good from the demons point of view and evil from the view of mankind imagine being told to give constant deference to a chimp! ( bloody talking monkeys ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:35:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis C Hwang Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Thomas Davidson wrote: > That points up an interesting question: What *is* the classical > description of Azrael? I don't have my Book of Angels or whatever handy. In Islamic tradition, Azrael has 70,000 feet and 4,000 wings, while his body is provided with as many eyes and tongues as there are men in the world. - --Dennis, aka Imago, Kyriotate of Jordi dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu xenopathologist at large! Deathwalker for President: for some *real* health care reform. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:39:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Starcrossed Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: A review > p. 7 is Scavella -- note the "SCAV" on the arm of the chair. (And > Bruton's a she, BTW.) Whoops. Didn't catch the "SCAV," and I could have sworn the facial features were drawn by the same artist as some of the ones you cited. Ah, well. > (Interestingly enough, the Beleth piece is one of the RS works I > actually kinda like. I think it's the bulldog-lion face in the > background.) It's one of the better ones, certainly, but still... *shrug* Perhaps it just didn't come close to matching the way I visualized the character. - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ...insert Foot [A] into Mouth [B]... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:28:46 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: Re: IN> Another weird question... MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > Who is Moroni (the patron angel of The Church of Jesus Christ of > Latter-day > Saints/Mormonism) in IN terms? I personally have two options, one > light, one > dark: > > Lightside: Moroni is a Seraph or Elohite of Yves who was sent to > Joseph > Smith to create yet another "necessary" religous movement. > > Darkside: Moroni is a Belseaph of Kobal working with Kronos to really > torque > off Dominic and Laurence. > > Mark (This one came up during a post-game chat...) Well he could just be a Saint ala Night Music or a very charismatic soldier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:23:01 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Superiors and their coffee Didja know that coffee was officially blessed by one of the Popes? 'S truth! People were getting so fanatical about it, that he investigated to see whether it should be banned. After one cup, he was hooked... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:09:44 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list On Sep 22, 4:04am, Walt Mazur wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing thi > On Sun, 21 Sep 97 22:50 EDT, Walter Milliken wrote: > > >> I think canonizing some > >>word other than superior for an immediate supervisor would greatly improve > >>the clarity of future In Nomine products. I've > > > >I like "supervisor", myself. Some of my (N)PCs use "Boss" for their > >Superior (OK, so they're angels of Creation, and Eli's not too big on > >titles....) > > Supervisor seems too...mundane, as if the Celestials were clerks or > assembly workers. Heh. I have a line in an upcoming piece of fiction when an angel is describing what he does and someone asks him if that's his job. He shook his head, "A job is something you _do_. This is what I _am_." - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:25:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Jason Mulligan wrote: > Hi, I just placed an order for In Nomine with my local RPG store and I have > been wondering what typical adventures entail generally in this game. Also, > I was wondering if there were any plans to publish either formal adventure > modules or licensed fiction of any sort in the future. > Hi Jason! Welcome to the list. :) You say that you are a "newbie", but I'm not sure whether you mean a newbie to roleplaying in general, or to In Nomine in particular. If the former, then the adventure seeds on the net (mentioned by others) are the way to go. If the latter, you might want to consider not giving your players an adventure *at all*. I find that simply dropping them in a setting is sufficient for ensuring that they make their own problems as the angels try to "improve" things and demons try to further the cause of evil. If I *do* plan things for the P.C.s to do, I think it is worth trying to make sure that an In Nomine adventure feels different from an adventure in other games. So pick things that are distinctive about In Nomine and play them up. The concern with morality is a good one in my humble opinion - if you can give the players temptations to overcome (or not) and genuine hard moral choices to make, it adds a lot of feel to the game. Having said all of this, a *typical* adventure usually has this form. Demon(s) x have a plan in accordance with their superior. The P.C.s discover clues about the plans unfolding and following them, eventually get to see the big picture. They then track down the demon and kill it. Careful that you don't end up playing "supers" with odd gimics! ;) Greg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:11:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 10:38 PM -0400 9/19/97, dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org wrote: > [...] > >Janus and Valefor may very well be the same entity through some elaborate > >trick. Could Hermes have been one of his alter-egos? Or did Hermes escape > >the Greek myth and land himself seats both in Heaven and Hell? > > There's a notion... > > Another option is that the Ethereal gods are actually *copies* of > the various Superiors (and lesser celestials), created by human > intrepretation of the stories told of encounters with these > beings. (Of course, this option nixes the "God is a souped-up > ethereal" idea, but whether it's true or not in your game, the PCs > will probably assume that's how it works. So Loki is the "brainchild" > of... Janus? Lucifer? This is all well and good... but I have one problem with it.... Loki is usually associated with *fire* not wind. Heck, his name is even a bastardization of the Icelandic word _loge_, which means "fire". Sorry, I'll be good now. :-) >Both conglomerated together in human imagination? > Thor and Ares/Mars all owe their existance to Michael, Aphrodite is > related to Andre and/or Eli, Athena is probably akin to Jean...) > Traditionally speaking, Thor is the most difficult of the Norse gods to classify. He's been associated with the following spheres: Thunder (his primary sphere), storm, justice, fertility, the protector of Midgard (earth), and so on. Thor wasn't considered a "war" god until modern times, and that was only because he fought so many giants and trolls. That word (Word?) was usually associated with Tyr or Odin. Thomas Davidson, who spent *way* too much time reading the Norse Myths as a child. :) tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:41:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> just a thought At 11:32 AM -0400 9/23/97, Chuck Ryan wrote: >Emily K. Dresner wrote: [...] >First Saminga didn't fall he never was an angle [Official continuity, he "was one of the first angels, small and frail, formed when the Symphony was still tuning up." (p. 19) Of course, if you're not using official continuity.... ] - --Elizabeth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:25:00 -0500 From: "Yeager, Alex" Subject: IN> AndCon and IN Anyone in the vicinity of Toledo OH can note the presence of IN at AndCon this weekend (Sept. 25-28). Myself, as your friendly neighborhood MIB, will be running introductory seminars every day, and there are three - count 'em, THREE - different people running IN scenarios. If you're attending, stop by and say hello... And, special public thanks to Nana Yaw Ofori for reviewing and improving my scenario (those damn Kyriotates of Jean!) Alex Yeager YeagerAW@Maritz.com MIB 0230/FoL/INWO Local 23 BOUNCE ALERT! Replies to my address may bounce; it IS a valid address! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:51:07 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Demon of Soft Drinks Tabaet, Demon of Soft Drinks Impudite Baron of Factions Corporeal Forces - 3 Strength 4 Agility 8 Ethereal Forces - 5 Intelligence 10 Precision 10 Celestial Forces - 6 Will 12 Perception 12 Vessels: Human Male/2 (Charisma +1) Songs: Attraction (Ethereal/6), Healing (Corporeal/3, Celestial/3), Shields (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/3) Skills: Chemistry/6, Dodge/6, Emote/6, Fighting/1, Languages (English/3, French/3, Chinese/3, Japanese/3), Lying/6, Medicine/3, Ranged Weapon(Pistol)/1, Computer Operation/1, Savoir-Faire/2 Attunements: Impudite of Factions, Habbalah of Factions, Imbroglio, Polarize, Prank Special Rites: Spark an argument about soft drink preferences, Persuade someone to switch soft drink brands Ever hear people arguing over whether Coke or Pepsi are better? This small contribution to the Word of Factions was made by Tabaet, Demon of Soft Drinks -- Tab to his friends. A quick way to get a handle on Tab is to understand that he's proud to have a much-reviled soft drink named after him. He really enjoys his work, and is especially fond of making people spill blood over something as trivial as the merits of RC Cola. It's a neverending source of amusement for him. Under Malphas' instruction, he's worked under Kobol in the past, which is where he picked up the Prank attunement. (After all, when a man murders his wife because she forgot to pick up a case of Diet Coke -- that's *funny*.) He's fond of using Prank to modify soft-drink billboards, especially when executives of the appropriate company are strolling by... - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:48:49 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Demon of Unsafe Sex Kwakabel, Demon of Unsafe Sex Shedim Baron of Dark Humor Corporeal Forces - 4 Strength 8 Agility 8 Ethereal Forces - 4 Intelligence 8 Precision 8 Celestial Forces - 6 Will 10 Perception 10 Songs: Shields (Celestial/6), Tongues (Corporeal/6), Charm (Celestial/6) Skills: Lying/6, Dodge/6, Fast-Talk/6, Emote/6, Lockpicking/1, Savoir-Faire/6, Seduction/6, Fighting/2 Attunements: Shedim of Dark Humor, Lilim of Dark Humor Special Rites: Convince someone that they don't need to use a condom, remind someone of the dangers of unsafe sex after it's too late Kwakabel, Quack to his friends, is a new rising star, having only recently been granted his own Word. Kobal made a few enemies when one of his servitors got this Word -- both Saminga and Andrealphus had contenders for this Word. Because of this, he's instructed Kwakabel to temporarily work with some servitors of Kronos. Quack assumes this is to confuse Hell's royalty even more. In the meantime, he's found that infecting someone with AIDS and then telling them what's happened to them is often a very effective way to bring a person to their Fate. He's careful to check with his partner (his demonic partner, not his sexual partner), however, before doing so -- some people can rise in the face of such adversity and meet their Destiny. Quack, like most Shedim, enjoys his work. His modus operandi is this: he finds someone with whom it would be bad to have sex with, possesses them, and makes sure that person has as much sex with as many people as possible. The look on people's faces after he tells them what just happened to them is likely to amuse him for some time to come. - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:17:10 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> The Angel of Cloves At 12:34 AM 9/20/97 PDT, you wrote: >Somebody mentioned the fact that there's no Prince of Angsty Gothness or Tragic Hipness or whatever, so I figured I might as well show you all what I've been working on lately . . . Okay, as a counterpoint to this... Mariel, Angel of Cloves Mercurian Master of Flowers Corporeal Forces - 3 Strength 4 Agility 4 Ethereal Forces - 5 Intelligence 10 Precision 10 Celestial Forces - 5 Will 9 Perception 11 Vessels: Human Woman/1 (Charisma +1) Songs: Healing (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/6, Celestial/3) Skills: Chemistry/6, Computer Operation/1, Dodge/6, Emote/6, Languages (English/3, French/3, German/3, Japanese/3), Medicine/6, Savoir-Faire/6, Singing/3 Attunements: Mercurian of Flowers, Seraph of Flowers, Crown of Joy, Transubstantiation Special Rites: Introduce someone to cloves (in any form), cause someone to appreciate beauty during a dark time Mariel, or Mary, as she prefers to be called, has recently applied for and acquired the Word of Cloves. Like many angelic Words, there is a spiritual as well as physical resonance to the Word -- in this case, Cloves resonantes with what some humans nowadays call "Goth". For this reason, Mary is also in charge of making sure that humans appreciate the beauty of and in darkness -- in particular, the beauty that is to be found even in the darkest of times. Not to revel in darkness, but to appreciate that which is good in an admittedly imperfect world. She has already become the thorn in the side of many demons of Fate. To further this part of her Word, Mary has taken the vessel of a cute little Goth girl, deliberately modeled on the DC Comics "Death" character. Her emotional impulse is definitely "perkygoff" -- she appreciates the dark and moody but it doesn't stop her from smiling. She goes from coffeehouse to occult bookstore to Goth club, smiling and smoking clove cigarettes, cheering people up. "Being Goth isn't about being upset and liking dead things," she's been known to say. "It's more... dark and elegant. A touch of wistful romance." Being a Mercurian, she is good at navigating the tangles of strange relationsips many Goths get involved in, and making sure their romantic touch doesn't dissolve into bitterness. Since part of her Word encourages people to appreciate the beauty of Creation, even in its worst elements, she recently had a surprise visitor in the form of the Archangel of Creation, who bought her some coffee and gave her the Transubstantiation attunement. ("You smell nice," he said. "Have some coffee.") - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:45:16 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Demon of Duelling Caym, Demon of Duelling Impudite Baron of War Corporeal Forces - 5 Strength 10 Agility 10 Ethereal Forces - 5 Intelligence 10 Precision 10 Celestial Forces - 4 Will 8 Perception 8 Vessels: Human Female/5 (Charisma +2), Human Male/5 (Charisma +1) Songs: Healing (Corporeal/6, Celestial/6), Shields (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/6, Celestial/3), Tongues (Corporeal/3) Skills: Acrobatics/1, Dodge/6, Emote/1, Fighting/6, Knowledge (Duelling)/6, Languages (English/3, French/3, Italian/3, German/3), Large Weapons(Sword)/6, Ranged Weapon(Pistol)/6, Small Weapon(Knife)/3, Throwing/1, Computer Operation/1, Savoir-Faire/6 Attunements: Impudite of War, Balseraph of War, Art of Combat, State of Ophis Special Rites: Successfully encourage two people to resolve their differences with a duel, win a duel with a willing opponent Caym (Kay to her friends) was once a favored servitor of War, but her Word has been on the wane for a very long time, and she isn't powerful as she used to be, but she is still a force to be recond with -- her personal power hasn't quite waned as much as her Word has. Yet. However, Kay has always been a clever demon, and her knowledge of human nature has made her creative. Caym is responsible for the recent rash of video games in the "Mortal Kombat" vein -- a form of duelling that also has enamored her to certain related demons of Media and Technology. In particular, she has been working with a number of demons of Technolgy off-and-on (mostly over the Net) to increase the number of duels in the "Man vs. Machine" vein. (Big Blue was her idea.) Also, her age-old method of getting two males to fight over her still works, she just has to be more creative about the contest and the prize. (Modern males don't usually believe that woman will just give herself to someone who wins a contest. However, challenges like "Whoever wins this chess match gets a kiss" can be remarkably effective.) Because of her creativity, Kay has been attracting some vicious young turks to her service, some of which she employs encouraging Thai kickboxing and other one-on-one bloodsports. This has given her the time to pursue some old grudges. Caym is that most annoying of all demons: An honorable opponent. She informs her enemies of her intentions before she moves against them, doesn't go back on her word, and doesn't always kill her opponents in a duel. In fact, she prefers to leave angels alive, so she might face them again. To top all this off, like all Impudites she's charming, clever, and a pleasure to be around, able to hold her own in nearly any conversational topic -- after all, debating is another form of duelling. - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> just a thought [snip. I know what I wrote.] > First Saminga didn't fall he never was an angel. Let's take this first, and give fair warning about double standards. What you are saying is that you have built two classes of Demon Princes: 1) Those who Fell but aren't "bad guys". 2) Those who never were Angels and crawled up from the sewers. I'm seeing an 'use vs them' forming, which is fine and interesting. But be careful with it. [more of my aimless ramblings] > > I agree again but as the game intentionally leaves the question of > celestial free will up in the are I am forced to use my own logic if a # > of angels intentionally rebelled against GOD they must have free will > and I take that to mean that they have the same requirements for good > and evil potentiality as humans [WARNING! AIMLESS RAMBLING AHEAD!] Not necessarily. As a matter of fact, even if they rebelled and have free will of their sort, they may have completely different requirements as humans. Humans, after all, have never rebelled against God, so the meter stick to judge against is not all there. And Demons have never lived a day as a human, so THEY don't know what it's like to be born, live a short time, and die. They only know in their greedy little hearts that it's fun to be alive. If you want to get really twisted, then one can say that humans, ultimately, HAVE NO FREE WILL. Not on a Celestial scale. Why? Because when they die and finish out their existances, Judgement happens and they go off to either Hell or the Pearly Gates or the walk through the big Reincarnation machine. The human may have chosen during their lives where they go when they die, but when they die, that's it. Game over man. We're talking a pretty good argument for Determinism in the eternal struggle to read really boring western Philosophy in the land of In Nomine. So my NPC saith: I gave in with resignation. There was no use in arguing, because I was going to lose, in a big way. I took a sip of my drink, and watched the masses move below me. "Is that all there is to it?" "To what?" "The humans. Is that all there is to it? They get born, they live, they die, they come here for a bit, and then they get born again?" So, potentially, maybe. But until humans start giving God the finger and figure out how to get out of the trap of dying and getting slotted to an afterlife, it's like how many licks it takes to get to the center of the lolly-pop, the world may never know. > know look at it this way as it is how it is run in my game the demons > were unjustly booted from heaven for refusing to place themselves > beneath man, hell is not a nice place for human souls because there just > a little bitter. > the angels fight for man because they were told to > and the demon want to see the humans removed from heaven entirely so > they can resume there rightful place to summarize > the wronged demons fight the oppressive regime to establish there " > rightful " place above man rather then beneath man > right even good from the demons point of view and evil from the view of > mankind > imagine being told to give constant deference to a chimp! > ( bloody talking monkeys ) I'm gonna wave my hands and say "It's not my GAME, man." So it's not my ruling. I sympathize with few demons, although they are fun at parties. The following is an official announcement of In My Humble Opinion: But you've justified my Heaven vs. Hell argument. I stand that it doesn't matter they're good acts or their evil acts, because in the end it all comes out in the wash. The line starts when the Celestial starts getting Selfish... and then down they go, like a stone. And with that argument, the Demons refusing to bow down showed pure Selfishness - they demanding to be ranked above an equal creation of God - and deserved to get booted out of Heaven. God isn't good, he isn't evil, he's just an equal opportunity employer. Of course, the demons have every right to believe they deserve to be in heaven. But what they believe and what IS are two different things. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #354 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.