From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 24 14:30:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13091 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:30:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA07655 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:34:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:34:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199709241834.NAA07655@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #356 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 356 In this digest: IN> Other Reading Material/Resources Re: IN> just a thought IN> The Police Chief Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Re: IN> just a thought IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 IN> The Marches: Errata and questions IN> Hello + Quick Question About Shedim Re: IN> Malakim, Lucifer. Re: IN> Other Reading Material/Resources Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted IN> typical adventures Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 Re: IN> Malakim, Lucifer. Re: IN> Demon of Duelling Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> Demon of Duelling Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions Re: IN> Other Reading Material/Resources Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions IN> just a thought Re: IN> just a thought ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:16:38 -0500 From: b1gator@camalott.com Subject: IN> Other Reading Material/Resources Add to the list the following works by James Morrow: "Only Begotten Daughter" "Towing Jehovah" "Blameless in Abaddon" "Bible Stories for Adults" As well as: "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis and: "On The Road With The Archangel" by a charming fellow whose name I've forgotten; I'll check it and post later. Everything here is worth reading in and of itself and might birth some story ideas for your games. Honest. Dan Coffin Dan Coffin b1gator@camalott.com "God be between you and harm in all the empty places you walk." - -a blessing of the 18th Egyptian Dynasty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:28:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > Perhaps they literaly meant, "he was never an ANGLE". . . or am I just being > obtuse? That's acute comment, and I think you may be on the right angle. Exit stage left dodging veggies. > Speaks Oops da Ogre, it all depends on the degree of the pun mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:55:09 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Police Chief >>>What do you think? This sounds a lot like Nybbas' propaganda to me... "You say Hell is mean?? Hey, THEY are the one who burnt those poor innocent old ladies!!". Or maybe the FBI's MIBs realized all cults are being manipulated in a sort of way and are being rightfully making sure our policemen avoid these traps...<<< Considering that everything in the excerpted segments is absolutely true, it might just be exactly what it appears to be-- the writings of a mundane discussing crime as it pertains to religion. Or it could indeed be diabolical propaganda....some diabolical propaganda just happens to be *true*.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:13:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... > > In Islamic tradition, Azrael has 70,000 feet and 4,000 wings, while his > > body is provided with as many eyes and tongues as there are men in the > > world. > Does that sound like a Kyrio, or what? At the least, I'd be boggled > if I saw that Celestial form... "Hey, wait...how can we be SURE you're the real Azrael?" "Well, I've got the 70,000 feet. Right here." "Suure...what if there're only 69,758, huh? You expect me to sit here and COUNT all those feet?" "Nah..just count the toes and divide by five." Hmm... (Okay, I stole the joke from a _Duncan and Mallory_. I confess.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:58:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's > > > Just a newbie to In Nomine (I should have my copy by the end of the week), > I've been roleplaying since the early 80's (been playing mainly Rolemaster > for the last 10 years). Cool! I really think that given this you will come up with your *own* answer as to what a typical In Nomine adventure is like. The game gives you plenty of freedom. > > I was just wondering whether the game was built around actual conflicts (ie > lots of actual combat) or not. It depends a lot on the group. In particular, the type of superior that the angels serve is likely to have a big influence on how they approach problems. Some Archangels are reasonably militant, whereas others prefer their underlings to take a more subtle approach. And, of course, whether the G.M. presents the players with problems that can be solved with a good full-frontal assault will have a big influence too. The game doesn't *push* you in any particular direction. > I'm guessing that I'll have a perfect idea > once I actually get my copy of the rules. Actually when I first heard about > this game, Ithe first thing that came into my mind was the novel 'Good > Omens' by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. You are not the first person to say that on this list... > > That is a problem sometimes. Games start to merge and just feel the same > with some differing trappings. My biggest fear for In Nomine is exactly this. But we will see. > > > Thats what I thought. Now, PC's can be demons? Oh yes indeed! Interestingly, though, playing demons is significantly less popular than playing angels. > I'm guessing you can't very > easily have a group consisting of demons and angels :) > Not *very* easily, but it is not unheard of. It would probably be easiest to achieve in a somewhat light-hearted game, or in a game where the two great factions are not quite so unified as traditional religion would have us believe. (Well, this is *already* true in In Nomine, but they would have to be even *more* strongly divided than the In Nomine book would suggest before they would reasonably start working with the other side). Having said this, there is a section in the book on running mixed parties, and the first supplement, Night Music, features a setting where the Angels and Demons have called a truce and gotten quite friendly. The truce doen't feel right to me for a serious game, but plenty of folks here on the list feel otherwise. Greg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:35:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > > 'Course, it's probably worth putting a lot of the rest down to > > publicity. (God had his book out way ahead of time, and with Jesus's > I like the general original idea in a sort of round about way, but it's > far too cut and dry for me. The original concept is like starting from > ground zero, except you've just interchanged the names. I dislike such > clear boundaries, and once the players figure it out, they will be clear. Well...okay, I have to admit, as I followed Chuck(?)'s original idea along a bit, I noticed I'd be giving the players the twist of finding out the Demons are actually the good guys, and then mucking it all up again once they explore that a little and let them find out that most of the demons are still jerks... {And won't they be confused, after all that laboring under the impression that the ANGELS are on the right side, but mostly jerks...} > and gone. Sure, there's an old school, but there's new kids now, too, > with new views on things. I also come from the school that people like Yeah...with, of course, ample sprinklings of the fact that the Old School *IS* in many ways the Outdated School...while the New School often doesn't even remember what it is they're supposed to be fighting FOR... > Andrealphus and Saminga really did Fall because they really did deserve to > get kicked out of Heaven. Aww..even poor little Belial? He just wanted a Word of his own... (Well, a Word of someone else's, really, but..) > anymore. Nybbas may be evil, but some of his technology promotes Sesame > Street. (You going to tell me Bert and Ernie are EVIL? To the corner > with you for four hours!) Kobal's agents are just as good at using satire Nybbas, particularly, I see as one of those caught up in the spirit of things without having ever quite understood (or, necessarily, cared about) the underlying reasons...he's just been on Lucifer's side since he was a gremlin, and came up with this neat idea... > people feel ridiculous at funerals. Vapula fights Jean, but is keeping > technology from humans REALLY a good thing? Medical technology falls Oooh...I don't like Jean AT ALL. Given this neat little book by Yves that gives him all the Secrets of The Universe and lets him build everything perfectly the first time, and he just sits up in his lab feeling superior and OCCASIONALLY letting one of his Angels use something neat...but Heaven forbid (heh) they show it to a human...grr... > It's something to ponder. I like Heaven and Hell, but I also like the > idea that humans need Good and Evil to continue to be Human. The more I look at it, the more I come to the conclusion that, all told, the War between Heaven and Hell is pretty much moot. They go around beating each other up, plotting and foiling and occasionally influencing actual humans, and all around them humans go on about our lives, mostly not even aware of them, and not particularly affected... {Unless, of course, Jean decides we've invented something he wanted to keep to himself for a few more years. Grr.} [Plus, his stuff doesn't always work. We had a pair of binoculars that could see auras, effectively, and last session they just stopped working. So I'm grumbling about this, of course, and he shorts out our CAR. Doesn't fix the stupid binoculars, NOOOoo..that'd be too useful. So I traded them to the dwarf, who, of course, promptly fixed 'em. Jean's probably not going to be too happy about that, but hey - if he'd fixed the stupid things, I wouldn't've considered it a paperweight. Anyway, he should really just chalk it up to one more lesson in Why Not To Have the Seraph of War Do The Negotiating...] (But, for the record, I'd like to state that I disliked Jean more than any other Archangel long before this happened.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:09:25 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 > >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:02:44 -0400 >From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" >Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves > >>We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into >>oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different >>definition of Goth ;-) > >A lot of the Goths in my part of the world (which is America, yes) smoke >clove cigarettes. Mariel is intended to be half-serious, tho I'm using her >in one of my game, to annoy/amuse one of the people in it. I was playing >around with the idea that an angelic Word often has resonances that one >might not expect. > OK, sorry. I think this is a culture thing because I've never seen clove cigarettes here (the goths I used to know smoked whatever was cheapest, and at least 60 a day(!) ). So I guess her word only covers American goths ;-) jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:09:14 -0400 From: "Jens H. Kruuse" Subject: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions I believe I've found a couple of mistakes in The Marches: p.27: The character Jahaz should have the Mercurian of Fine Attunement. p.27: Aluriel and Mordecai should have the Cherub of Destiny Attunement. p.48: Sergei Roskovich should have the Calabite of Fire Attunement. Also, he is not a valid starting character. It appears that he has received 9 points for his mandatory Calabite Discord as well as 2 points for his vessel-specific negative charisma (I believe it should be only one point). Questions for Archangel Beth: p.46: Call of the Dancing Flame "Make an opposed roll between the Demon's Celestial Forces and the Will of the target. The check digit x 2 ...". What's an opposed roll? And which check digit if it is a contest? p.46: Blackdraft "... and lasts as long as a Celestial Forces roll's check digit x 2, or until the demon releases it." Most attunements are free and work automatically, this one is expensive and requires a roll against Celestial Forces, which is hard. Shouldn't it read "... and lasts for Celestial Forces x 2 ..."? Is it seconds, combat rounds, or minutes? (I would think rounds). I hope you can help me, Jens ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:39:33 -0700 From: "Chris Eng" Subject: IN> Hello + Quick Question About Shedim Hullo, I'm new to the list and just thought I'd announce my presence. So, "Hi." And also I have a question about the Shedim. I hope they haven't been asked before. I have been going through all of the digests but there's over 350 of them (!) and it's pretty slow going. Anyway, here it is: While posessing a corpse, do Shedim of Saminga get dissonance for not making the corpse do bad things, or how does that work? Also, has anyone here read Metropol by Ted McKeever? It's an amazing comic put out about 5 years ago by Epic, all about a final battle between Angels and Devils confined to a single city. Interestingly, when humans die they emerge as agents of one side of they other (although almost overwhelmingly Infernal). I'm working on adapting it into an IN campaign. If anyone's interested, I'll share my ideas. Chris Eng ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:35:37 -0400 From: "Steven Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim, Lucifer. > Except that Lucifer is a Balseraph. Or a Seraph, depending on how screwed > up your game is. :) Er, well, I know it says that in IN on page 185, and I know the Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica says he's a fallen Seraph, and it makes a lot of sense. But, IMAO, I don't think Lucifer can indulge in the self- deception central to Balseraphs without severe consequences to Hell's ability to win the War. But I prefer Lucifer to be the corrupted Malakite who put himself above duty and honor. Without the stricture of honor, his arrogance, tyranny, and cruelty have been magnified beyond the comprehension of any Celestial (except maybe Yves). And, what Malakim has time for small talk, patience for buffonery, or an appreciation of the ridiculous? But, finally, making Lucifer a Malakim somehow satisfies me emotionally, and I like how it explains the lack of other fallen Malakim. Gazebo, Demon of Bad Alt.Religion.Kibology Posts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:37:16 +1000 From: Jason Mulligan Subject: Re: IN> Other Reading Material/Resources b1gator@camalott.com wrote: > As well as: > > "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis Hmmm...I remember reading a book by Andrew Greenley years ago that was about Angels. It was called Angel Fire I think. Anyone else read it? - -- Jason Mulligan "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd!" - Edmund Blackadder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:40:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 1:11 PM -0400 9/23/97, Thomas Davidson wrote: > [Ethereals as "reflections" of celestials, as seen by humans] > >>So Loki is the "brainchild" of... Janus? Lucifer? > > > >This is all well and good... but I have one problem with it.... > > > >Loki is usually associated with *fire* not wind. Heck, his name is even a > >bastardization of the Icelandic word _loge_, which means "fire". > > That's okay -- Janus is an Ofanite. A wheel of fire... > Heh. Forgot about that. :-) > >Sorry, I'll be good now. :-) > > Oh, why? That's no fun! > Because it was after I had written that that I realized that probably no one cared about what I had to say about something non-IN. We're changing the Judaic/Christian/Islamic myths anyway, so why not add Asatru/Norse myths, Greek, Celtic/Gaelic, etc. (I really must stop reading mythology) :) > >>Both conglomerated together in human imagination? > >> Thor and Ares/Mars all owe their existance to Michael, Aphrodite is > >> related to Andre and/or Eli, Athena is probably akin to Jean...) > > > >Traditionally speaking, Thor is the most difficult of the Norse gods to > >classify. He's been associated with the following spheres: Thunder (his > >primary sphere), storm, justice, fertility, the protector of Midgard > >(earth), and so on. Thor wasn't considered a "war" god until modern > >times, and that was only because he fought so many giants and trolls. > >That word (Word?) was usually associated with Tyr or Odin. > > Hmmmm..... Yeah, well, can't trust those humans to get anything right, > huh? Well, in IN, that's almost a given.... isn't it? But what if there's a group of humans who knows -- or perhaps suspects -- the truth about the Symphony? Maybe God *did* rewrite the Symphony "in His own image", casting Himself as Creator of all things; where He is the Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent; He is the Alpha and the Omega. > >Thomas Davidson, who spent *way* too much time reading the Norse Myths as > >a child. :) > > Naaaahhhh. > I suspected not myself. Heck the Norse myths are better than any comic book -- and less boring than some "fantasies". But that's just me. (Note: for a rip-roaring good read, try "The Norse Myths" by Kevin Crossley-Holland, which is almost a direct translation of the _Prose_Edda_.) And if you think I'm weird about this, try alt.religion.asatru... they take the Norse Myths *very* seriously. Having rambled long enough... Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: lugaid@seanet.com Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted On 1997-09-23 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com >Yeah...(strange quoting method you've got, there. not my fault... i do all of this from a 286 with dos 5.0... that leaves exactly one ppp client i can use, which quotes like it does... >Okay, here's my whole take on it: Almost every ethereal has a Word >- themselves. They thrive when people believe in them, and wither >Yahweh found that you could have a Word other than yourself, and >that by doing so, you bypassed the necessity for human belief. that works very well... i think i shall steal... err... draw inspiration from it... >He >looked around, and then took the biggest word he could see - >Conflict. Not just arguements - any conflict gives him some power. >Computer games, infection, even evolution gives him some power. hmm... sounds interesting... i'll have to think about that one, see how it fits into my own conception... >Oh, me too. I just don't see giving him that much power, because >then beating him would be almost impossible. i don't think that it is really all that much power... no one *has* to do things according to the Symphony (that's what Dissonance is all about, really), even though they are encouraged to... but, more importantly, it seems like Free Will is important to the proper flow of Essence, so God was unable to do anything about that, leaving room for a lot of alternate ideas and viewpoints... since He had to allow for Free Will, He was unable to create a completely controlled situation (though He did stack the deck quite a bit)... >> and, also, the Ethereals (some of them, anyway) know parts of the >> Truth... >Of course. Satan knows, too, but no angels believe him (Thinking he >is a Balseraph. In truth, he never was an angel...maybe.) i prefer Satan as "the First Angel, loved once above all others"... i think that he does know the True truth (and so, probably, do the Seraphim), but it is in everyone's best interests right now to keep it all under wraps... in fact, knowledge of the past may be the primary reason for Dominic's Inquisition... >> actually, i hadn't even considered _Snow Crash_ yet... >Have you read it, though? absolutely... when it first appeared in trade paper (and since then, as well)... >> i'm paying more attention to _Black Easter_, _The Day After >> Judgement_, _Magic, Inc._, _Paradise Lost_, _Inferno_ (Dante's >> *and* Niven/Pournelle's) and the rest of the Divine Comedy, the >> writings of John Dee, the poetry of Baudelaire, _The Screwtape >> Letters_, the works of William Blake, and movies like _The >> Prophecy_ (1995), _Wings of Desire_, and _The Omen_... >Ack - you have me outranked, there. I'm going with a dash of WoD, a >larger dash of Snow Crash, flavorings of Shadowrun, and touches from >the vague stew that constantly bubbles at the back of my head. that was, of course, a partial list... i have many other sources, large and small, that all boil together into my personal vision... i want to include some concepts from WoD and Kult, and those are flavoring some of the things to a certain degree, as does Nephilim... post-modernism has its distinct spice providing a high note (which is one reason i don't have a great deal of influence from Amber - even my Secret History is, very likely, not the final layer of Truth)... GURPS Voodoo's Manicheistic perspective will always flavor anything i do that involves monotheism (Kult and Voodoo are amazing attempts at "corrupted world" theology, and rise far above most gaming material... there are several modern games, including In Nomine, which rise above, actually)... one thing, though, that is not influencing me much at all is Changeling, which is an awful vision of Faerie, imh(bda)o... >> that one came from wondering about the nature of >> Falling... i have a hard time getting emotionally behind the >> "removed from God's Grace" explanation... >It's kinda hokey, but I like it, in a way. it's not that it's hokey, really... it may be a case wherein my own (very polytheistic) beliefs just don't jibe with it... i can understand it, intellectually, but emotionally it just doesn't work at all for me... >> >Again, interesting. My Heaven is just an extension of God's >> >Celestial Form, and Hell is the Celestial corpse of Metatron. >I think the Metatron idea comes from either the Bible or the Torah - >I got it off the list. could someone let me know from where this comes? >> >No - God chained them with their vows. They *couldn't* leave. >>Demons chained to Heaven... it's sick >and wrong... ;) >Yeah - fits, don't it? fits my vision, anyway... i like things dark... not so dark as, say, Kult (though even there, there is quite the ray of light, if you know where to look), but pretty darn dark... Slan agus Beannachtai, Lugaid MacRobert I am the fierceness of boars Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:45:25 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: IN> typical adventures >lots of actual combat) or not. I'm guessing that I'll have a perfect idea >once I actually get my copy of the rules. Actually when I first heard about >this game, Ithe first thing that came into my mind was the novel 'Good >Omens' by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. I am currently playing in a game based on this absolutly brilliant book. being run by a friggin evil maggot ( he's not on this list ) of a GM as well as running a much darker version myself ( you remember nazi heaven ) the two games counter each other well and both are great fun though I have to admit his sessions tend to contain alot more laughter then mine CHUCK Former Angel of pestilence " retired sometime in the 1940's mumbuling sumthing about penisilan, if only he new " ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:23:05 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 Jo Hart wrote: > >>We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into > >>oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different > >>definition of Goth ;-) > > > >A lot of the Goths in my part of the world (which is America, yes) smoke > >clove cigarettes. > OK, sorry. I think this is a culture thing because I've never seen clove > cigarettes here So I guess her word only covers American goths ;-) I think we've hit a point here - one that was still forming in my mind, but now came alive out of a sudden. It's addressed to you guys (and girl!) at SJGames: Folks, take care for IN not to get too regional. I mean, we know your version of IN is american and made by americans for americans, but you know how we're globalized nowadays... And nobody does not exclusively "for americans" anymore - it's "for the world". I'm not complaining (yet), I'm just letting myself known now so I won't need to, later. Just don't let it get too, and only, american. Take a peek all around the world. Think about the things you can get from Europe and Africa and China. Or Brazil. It will make In Nomine even richer than it is now... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:05:50 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Malakim, Lucifer. Steven Ehrbar wrote: > > Except that Lucifer is a Balseraph. Or a Seraph, depending on how > screwed > > up your game is. :) > > Er, well, I know it says that in IN on page 185, and I know the Thomas > Aquinas in Summa Theologica says he's a fallen Seraph, and it makesa lot of > sense. But, finally, making Lucifer a Malakim somehow satisfies me > emotionally, and I like how it explains the lack of other fallen Malakim. I rather liked that idea myself... Lucifer as a Malakite... Maybe, as the first Seraph, he watched the creation of every choir of angels and so he developed a deep knowledge of how they really were - what later became the Balseraph of Kronos attunement (Lucifer did meet his fate with that, as we'll see right ahead...). He figured that if he could use the powers of every angel in heaven, he could better bring the light to them all - but in doing so, pretending he was another choir, he was going against his Seraph nature and slowly gaining discord. Arrogance, for example. When his attunement led him to fake a Malakite resonance, it was then that he took his famous oath "I shall never bow to anyone, much less to a talking pile of mud" (or something like that) - and humans were created. And he fell. And in falling he became a Balseraph - but he was already pretending to be a Malakim. Conclusion: Lucifer got stuck in his own personal symphony, where he is a Malakite - one who faced God to preserve his honor. And the occasional fallen Malakim? "Well, *they* didn't stick with their vows - certainly God sent them to me for their destruction." I think it covers all, doesn't it? St. Tomas is right, Steven is emotionally satisfied and... I rather liked it! :-) Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:51:50 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Duelling David Edelstein wrote: > Note: Baal's Word is "the War", not "War". > > -David were did this come from I just got The Marches yesterday and it specifically states " Michael and baal also share a word of course" on page 19 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:27:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > Part of the point of Mariel is that her Word had that > resonance even before humans started smoking cloves. Maybe the causality works the other way -- goths like to smoke cloves *because* Mariel, the Goth Angel, is also the Angel of Cloves. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:42:27 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Duelling On Sep 24, 8:51am, Chuck Ryan wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Duelling > David Edelstein wrote: > > > Note: Baal's Word is "the War", not "War". > > > > -David > > were did this come from I just got The Marches yesterday and it > specifically states " Michael and baal also share a word of course" on > page 19 Check out the errata for The Marches. P.S. David is very, very infrequently wrong when he makes statements like this. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:41:11 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 > It's addressed to you guys (and girl!) at SJGames: Folks, take care for > IN not to get too regional. I mean, we know your version of IN is american and > made by americans for americans, but you know how we're globalized nowadays... > And nobody does not exclusively "for americans" anymore - it's "for the world". > > I'm not complaining (yet), I'm just letting myself known now so I won't > need to, later. Just don't let it get too, and only, american. Take a peek all > around the world. Think about the things you can get from Europe and Africa and > China. Or Brazil. > It will make In Nomine even richer than it is now... > From conversations with SJ, I think he would _love_ to expand to other continents. The reason Austin was chosen for NM was that it was a setting they knew _intimately_. The Marches focused on areas other than Earth altogether. The rest of the Revelations Cycle is a bit US-centric. Steve _greatly_ prefers if someone who is living (or has lived) in a city write up that city and any adventures in it. This adds a layer of versimilitude to a setting that is hard to beat. If you've got a cool idea that involves another country, please write it up and send it in! No guarantees, of course, but the outlines for the next Cycle are being drafted now. A good venue is a gaming magazine (there are several strong ones with good regional coverage). SJG also offers a co-payment plan if you can convince a major magazine to publish an article based on a SJG product (i.e. after the magazine publishes your article, SKG _also_ pays you... yum!) I, personally, would love to have an adventure in London (plus one in australia and possibly Japan.) I'll probably end up writing it (I spent some time in Japan... lovely country.) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:04:49 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions And, since the subject line's appropriate...is the statement that Lilith might owe a favor or two to Hatiphas to be read as such, or the other way 'round; isn't it usually Lilith that offers the assistance? yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:14:22 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: Re: IN> Other Reading Material/Resources Jason Mulligan wrote: > b1gator@camalott.com wrote: > > > As well as: > > > > "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis > > Hmmm...I remember reading a book by Andrew Greenley years ago that was > > about Angels. It was called Angel Fire I think. Anyone else read it? > > -- > Jason Mulligan > > "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the > devil's own > satanic herd!" > - Edmund Blackadder Any body interested in a book about angels in a completly different light is invited to check out a great book called Arch Angel sorry can't remember the author I'll send it out after I check ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:31:50 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions On Sep 24, 10:04am, IQJason@aol.com wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions > And, since the subject line's appropriate...is the statement that Lilith > might owe a favor or two to Hatiphas to be read as such, or the other way > 'round; isn't it usually Lilith that offers the assistance? While Lilith _loves_ to have people owe her favors, she not above getting into a bit of debt herself. Sometimes a future favor is worth an immediate advantage (or assistance). And sometimes you just don't have a lot of choice. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:14:07 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> The Angel of Cloves >Maybe the causality works the other way -- goths like to smoke cloves >*because* Mariel, the Goth Angel, is also the Angel of Cloves. Could be -- makes sense to me either way. The idea is that the emotional attitude that Mariel represents is what some humans call "Goth", but in Angelic, there is no Word for Goth. It's just that wistful romantic feeling. So people who feel that well might very well smoke cloves (if they have ever been exposed to them), because the way the feeling and cloves are connected in the Symphony. If they call themselves Goths, that's their perogative. Mariel's a Mercurian, and if it makes them happy, she's not going to argue. ;) Go to alt.gothic sometime and you'll find that the *human* word "Goth" is rather fluid, which is why I said *some humans* call Mariel's attitude "Goth". The Goth friend of mine who's in the game with Mariel doesn't agree with her definition of Goth, tho he says *some* Goths agree with it... -Loki (of course, his Ofanite of Jean doesn't believe in Goths -- "it's so 80s which is like a Trash-80 Trash-80s suck you need to upgrade upgrade I can help just ask here's my email email me") - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:50:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > > Oh, btw, I saw mentioned in GURPS IOU that SJ Games prints one version of > > the Principia Discordia. I don't remember having seen that for sale on the > > web page - does anyone know how much it costs? > > $9.95 US, but I'm not sure if it's still sold. That print run was... > '94, I believe. They still had copies at Gen-con, and I have seen it at a couple gaming shops in the area if anyone needs. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:49:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Highway Star wrote: > At 11:04 -0400 9/23/97, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > >Here is a list of books that I have found useful in plotting my In Nomine > >campaign: > --snip-- > > Good list - though I just have to suggest "Job: A Comedy of Justice" by > RAH. Great book, and what a fun way to run Heaven and Hell. An excellent choice. > Of course, I'm busy squeezing GURPS IOU (which I just bought yesterday, and > LOVE - good job, Archangel Beth!) and Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (I don't > have the GURPS supplement *yet*, but I've read all the books) into my game. > IOU is going to be the "dark side" of UVA (darkly illuminated), and I've > read all kinds of whacky books getting ready for this campaign. > BWAHAHAHAHAHA!:) Check out ArchBeths conversion of Iou to In Nomine. > Oh, btw, I saw mentioned in GURPS IOU that SJ Games prints one version of > the Principia Discordia. I don't remember having seen that for sale on the > web page - does anyone know how much it costs? I happen to have my copy right here. It is $9.95. Isbn 1-55634-320-5 Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:04:17 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: Errata and questions > While Lilith _loves_ to have people owe her favors, she >not above getting into a bit of debt herself. Sometimes a future >favor is worth an immediate advantage (or assistance). And >sometimes you just don't have a lot of choice. Not to mention that Lilith has some amazing and unique resources available to her, in the form of calling in other favors and creating custom Lilim, that she can use to pay any favors she owes. -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:28:51 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> just a thought >From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > Sometimes it's credited to Azazel, too. ("Shall a child of fire > bow then to a child of clay?") Okay - from what I know of the Koran, jinn (spirits) are creatures of smoke, and humans of clay. How often are Angels refered to as creatures of fire? Just toying with some more ideas... Nathaniel Eliot< Every time the creation of Angels is metioned they are Fire or light, Jinn[ Like our friend in Aladdin] are smokeless flame and man is clay or mud. However in Gabriel is responsible for this account to Mohammed.=, and we all no how stable she is when fire is mentioned. Also God has a war with an Anthill. [God is resting, he will soon be well enogh for short visits until then Groucho Marx is standing in for him. .]. Adam Canning "Hell's internet address domain code is that for the Canary Islands., not .ik". Orc Angel of Networks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:05:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis C Hwang Subject: Re: IN> just a thought On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > > Perhaps they literaly meant, "he was never an ANGLE". . . or am I just being > > obtuse? > > That's acute comment, and I think you may be on the right angle. > > Exit stage left dodging veggies. I think this thread's headed off on a tangent. - --Dennis, aka Imago, Kyriotate of Jordi dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu xenopathologist at large! Deathwalker for President: for some *real* health care reform. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #356 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.