From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Sep 25 21:36:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13784 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:36:47 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA14181 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:44:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:44:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199709260144.UAA14181@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #359 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 359 In this digest: IN> re>need for light and darkness Re: IN> re>need for light and darkness Re: IN> just a thought IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #358 Re: IN> House Rules IN> paired demon and Renegade Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #357 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #357 Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #357 Re: IN> "War" vs. "the War" Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! IN> Thor deceased? I don't think so. :) Re: IN> question re Saints Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> Angel of Housewives (Long) Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> Devil's Advocate (Slightly Off Topic) Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:11:58 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: IN> re>need for light and darkness Hrm. The idea of science as a religion is intriguing, but disturbing. I wonder if technology might be a more appropriate religion... (This, with echoes of Clarke's "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." One wonders if you could replace 'magic' with 'miracles.') 1) read dianetics by L.Rone.Huberd ( please excuse any misspelling here ) an interesting but extremely disturbing look at the faith of scientology 2) the only really difference between magic and miracles is who gets the credit I did this = magic God made this possible = miracle CHUCK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:05:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> re>need for light and darkness > Hrm. The idea of science as a religion is intriguing, but disturbing. > I wonder if technology might be a more appropriate religion... (This, > with echoes of Clarke's "Any sufficiently advanced technology is > indistinguishable from magic." One wonders if you could replace > 'magic' with 'miracles.') > > 1) read dianetics by L.Rone.Huberd ( please excuse any misspelling here > ) > an interesting but extremely disturbing look at the faith of scientology It's L. Ron Hubbard and I don't think that it's appropriate since Scientology is not strong in the science department. > CHUCK Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 13:22 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> just a thought >> Remember Jean is an Elohite, and takes the long view of things. I see >> his goal as encouraging humans to invent things on their own, not to >> hand out neat tech. Yes, this hurts people (by not helping them *now*), >> but this is what I'd consider a typical Elohite viewpoint. > >I would agree with this -- with the addition that he wants to stop the >handing out of tech by Vapula. (Particularly since Vapula's technology >tends to be not just too soon, but nasty stuff.) In fact, servants of >Jean probably spend a lot of time scurrying around to do just that. Exactly. But then, a lot of angels spend as much or more time foiling their opposite numbers as promoting their Superior's Word among humans. I view Vapula as foisting a lot of half-baked tech off on (mostly) unsuspecting humans. Partly this is because there are a lot more humans to be beta-testers, and partly this is because he's a Habbalite, and *enjoys* watching humans cope with the fallout from poorly-thought-out ideas. After all, if they trust in tech when they shouldn't, they *deserve* what they get.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:06:41 -0700 From: "Chris Eng" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #358 > On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:54:15 -0700, "Chris Eng" said: > > Just saw an ad on TV for the new movie, "Devil's Advocate," starring > > al Pacino as Satan and Keanu Reeves as the Official Opposition > > (Canadian joke). Is that the best God can do? Man, we're doomed to > > darkness for sure. (Opens October 17) > > Well, Keanu plays a human, not an angel or other "official" > representative of God, AFAIK. > 'Sides, they probably thought we were doomed to darkness when David > went after Goliath, yah? :-) > The movie's based on a book by Andrew Neiderman, BTW. And you can > check out the movie's web page at http://www.wbmovies.com/DEVILS/ > (the Links section includes several online references for Dante's > Inferno). > Hunter All right, I stand corrected (but I still think there's a difference between David and Keanu Reeves. A big difference.) And the web page does include Infernal Wallpaper, so there's a big plus, right there. Chris Eng, Impudite Servitor of Nybbas, Doomed to Monitor Only the Two Channels He Receives ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:28:46 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> House Rules On Sep 24, 11:57pm, CeIestiaI7@aol.com wrote: > Subject: IN> House Rules > Howdy all. > > I've GM'd my first two sessions of In Nomine now and have hit a few > walls. Now I like a simple system, and I think this system is as simple as > it gets. I am however wondering if anyone has a few house rules that help > out the fell of combat. What I'm looking for in particualr are initiative > rules and more realistic firearms damage. > I've tried using an agility roll, and going with the highest Check > Digit+Corp Forces for initiative. I had mixed results. The problem I had > with firearms damage is that vs. a normal human, a .44 revolver barely makes > the grade ("normal human" being 2 Corp Forces, 3-4 Str, 15-20 hits). So mote it be! (From the FAQ) It seems that even an 'average' human can take a lot of hits. The rules for calculating a mortal's hits has been changed. The new formula is [Corporeal Forces + Toughness] times Strength. Toughness is a new attribute (only purchaseable by mortals) that costs four points per level up to two levels. (Night Music, p. 31) Because a human no longer has a 'level' for determining when they die (In Nomine, p. 62), treat their level as one for that formula (i.e. a human dies when they take enough Body Hits to bring them to negative Strength). Toughness adds to this 'death point' so a human with 5 Strength and 2 Toughness needs to lose all their Body Hits, plus 7 more in order to die. So your typical human with Corporeal/2 would have 6-8 hits. Better? ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:41:09 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> paired demon and Renegade The first character here is a straight-up villian -- even demons are likely to hate his guts, though I think he'd work best as a foil to a group of demons. The second character was inspired by the first, and came about because I noticed that there are precious few non-Lilim Renegades in the In Nomine Collection's "Outcasts/Renegades" section... Jetrel, "Jet" Balseraph Servitor of Fate Corporeal Forces - 2 Strength 5 Agility 3 Ethereal Forces - 2 Intelligence 5 Precision 3 Celestial Forces - 5 Will 10 Perception 10 Vessel: none (see below) Skills: Computer Operation/1, Dodge/6, Driving/1, Escape/1, Fighting/1, Throwing/1, RW (Pistol)/1 Songs: Healing (Corporeal/6), Shields (Celestial/3) Attunements: Balseraph of Fate (Kyriotate resonance), Impudite of Fate, Fated Future Jetrel was lovingly crafted by Kronos to drive Angels of Destiny, particularly Kyriotates, absolutely mad. Kronos is, if anything, a craftsman. Jet's modus operandi when dealing with a human with a great Fate is remarkably similiar to that of a Kyriotate of Destiny -- inverted. He possesses someone close to the victim and figures out his borrowed vessel's relation to the victim with the Impudite of Fate attunement. Then, a few well-placed lies drive the victim to his fated future. Jet has even posed successfully as a Kyriotate of Destiny using this method, though when he's experiencing less hubris, he pretends to be a Kyriotate of Gabriel... When he doesn't want to reveal his Demon Prince to other demons, he pretends to be a Shedim, another guise which is easy to maintain, especially if he switches vessels often. He's especially fond of posing as a Shedim of Asmodeus, since then he doesn't have to pretend to corrupt his host. Jet, being a demon from birth, is a smiling, grinning maniac who enjoys messing with people's heads. To him, God is a petty tyrant, imposing a single objective reality on Mankind, and by sending the weaker members of the species to their Fate, he helps break God's hold on the universe. He looks forward to the day when Hell will win, and, in his vision, everyone will have their own reality to play in. He is extremely loyal to his master, and doesn't wish to fail him, though his empathy for his creator sometimes gets out of hand, making it difficult for him to even pretend to work with demons who are associated with Kobal or Valefor. Some say that Kronos endeavored to make Jet as loyal as possible to counter a smiliar Balseraph that just left his service... Hamayzod Renegade Balseraph Servitor of Fate Corporeal Forces - 1 Strength 2 Agility 2 Ethereal Forces - 4 Intelligence 8 Precision 4 Celestial Forces - 5 Will 10 Perception 10 Vessel: none (see below) Skills: Dodge/6, Escape/1, Fighting/1, Throwing/1 Songs: Healing (Corporeal/6), Shields (Celestial/6) Attunements: Balseraph of Fate (Kyriotate resonance), Impudite of Fate, Fated Future Discord: Vulnerability:Sunlight/3 Hamayzod (Ham to his friends) is a "fresh" Balseraph, a fallen Seraph, that has come full circle, looking to become Bright again. This is how it happened... Ham used to work for Yves, under Garzanal, Angel of the Criminally Insane. To support the Word of his immediate Superior, he had to work with serial killers and would-be mass murderers in an attempt to have them meet their Destiny -- or, at least, not meet their Fate. This is the sort of thing that makes Michael suspicious. Yves gives a Seraph, one of the Most Holy, and therefore least able to deal with humanity, the assignment to work with the absolute worst people humanity has to offer, not long after creating the Seraph in question. Straight from Heaven to Hell-on-Earth. It would seem nearly inevitable that Hamayzod would Fall. And Fall he did. After spending too much time talking to an Outcast Servitor of Gabriel, he came to the conclusion that one of his charges didn't *deserve* to meet his Destiny, and allowed him to slide into his Fate by spending time working on other cases. This earned him his first note of Dissonance, and soon more followed, as Ham continued to "forget" to help certain people in favor of those he found slightly more sympathetic. Kronos snapped this one right up. Ham pioneered the sort of techniques that Jetrel (see above) uses -- he requested the Kyriotate resonance specifically because he had figured out that particular way to use that angelic resonance. Ham's motivation was different, however -- he wanted to punish people for being weak, especially the insane, who he felt had "allowed" their minds to cave in so as to avoid resonsibility for their actions. Kronos usually paired him with a Habbalite, since their perspectives were so similiar. The one-two combination was usually terribly effective, and many people met their Fate with Ham's help. However, all good (or evil) things must come to an end. As a Balseraph, Ham became more and more enamoured of the human capacity for self-delusion. "It's beautiful," he'd say. "Too bad it's just a cop-out, and doesn't serve a purpose. Like the reality I builds serves a purpose." Then he met Dwight Mulgrew, aka Mulgrew, Demon Hunter (see Night Music, p. 63). And he fell in love. Head-over-heels in love. Here was a man whose insanity served a *purpose*, something that was functional both for him and for the (demonic) world-at-large. Like many people in love, Ham became flustered, as he endeavored to stay around Mulgrew and help him out. After a while he couldn't keep up with the dissonance he was racking up when he accidentally contradicted himself time and time again, trying to please both himself and Mulgrew. Not to mention he was ignoring assignments from Kronos to spend time with Mulgrew. And if that wasn't enough, the female vessels Ham was throwing at Mulgrew tended to die in his arms, which got him even more dissonance from the Kyriotate resonance. So he went Renegade, with the intention of redeeming himself, with the hope that he might be able to save Mulgrew and make him into a *real* demon hunter. Ironically, when he had firmly left the service of his Prince, Mulgrew was assigned to hunt him down, and Ham has been running from his beloved (with a couple of Ham's Habbalite ex-partners on loan to Asmodeus) ever since. The Kyriotate resonance makes him hard to track, however, which is about all he has going for him... While Ham's reasons for redeeming himself are relatively unselfish (he's willing to give up being a demon, which he greatly enjoys, in order to find a way to save Mulgrew from being an expendable tool of Asmodeus), several hurdles in the form of lingering selfish feelings are keeping him back. The first is his refusal to talk to Yves, who he (wrongly) fears will destroy him if he comes back. The second is his strong desire to return to Heaven not as a Seraph, but as a Kyriotate. He's gotten quite used to the Kyriotate resonance, and likes the sort of perspective it gives him. The few angels he's talked to so far (a couple of Servitors of Gabriel), have been confused by him -- they're not even sure if what he's requesting is *possible*. The last hurdle (and possibly the worst one) is that he still doesn't give a rat's ass for anyone *besides* Mulgrew, which is hardly angelic as far as many Superiors are concerned. (Although his appeciation for the "beauty of insanity" has the potential to blossom into something deeper.) - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 15:52 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #357 >Oops. Didn't mean to make myself seem stupid. It just seemed interesting >to me that by serving Saminga they aren't bound by their band's rules of >dissonance. Neat loophole, I suppose. That isn't the only example of a particular Superior exempting a Choir or Band from their restrictions. Kyrios of Michael can have vessels, Cherubim of Dominic (I think it is) are allowed to harm their attuned, etc. > Still, don't want to encourage that >kind of behavior in the Shedim or else they might get slack and not >encourage ANYONE to be corrupt, and then, then - I ask you - where would >Hell be? Anyway, I don't think Saminga is interested in corrupting people (other than physically), just killing them. Corrupting people to kill others is useful, of course.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:56:27 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #357 >Anyway, I don't think Saminga is interested in corrupting people (other >than physically), just killing them. Corrupting people to kill others >is useful, of course.... And Saminga's Shedim resonance certainly encourages you to kill someone before taking over their body. I know that's how the Shedim of Saminga in my demonic onw-shot viewed it... -Loki (not to mention he was sort of a "Saminga, Jr."... Jim Henson's Demon Prince Babies...) - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:58:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's At 12:36 PM +1000 9/25/97, Jason Mulligan wrote: [...] >Another thing was how the Archangels have been >detailed/presented, I sortof expected there to be much more detail on their >histories. Expansions on the various Archangels and Princes come out 2-4 to a supplement... For an unofficial example, check Maya's web-pages... (Go to my pages http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles and find a link there -- there ought to be several.) >And then there is the overall feel I get, that the came could >degenerate into Vampire: the Masquarade with different trappings quite >easily. Could, though we've found the feel to be vastly different. (Of course, we play with brightness turned up a little above medium, and contrast turned down a little.) Just make sure that not everyone they meet is a celestial, soldier, or child of the Grigori... >There was a bit less campaign material in it then I expected too, >but I guess thats what the sourcebooks are for. Definitely. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:09:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #357 At 12:01 AM -0700 9/25/97, Chris Eng wrote: >> At 11:39 PM -0700 9/23/97, Chris Eng wrote: >> >> >And also I have a question about the Shedim. While >> >posessing a corpse, do Shedim of Saminga get dissonance for not making >> >the corpse do bad things, or how does that work? >> >> Ah. >> No, no, they don't need to corrupt the corpse. It's corrupting quite >> well on its own (note the Pallid Discord...). > >Oops. Didn't mean to make myself seem stupid. No, no, I was just thinking too much about something. You started a silly train of thought that I had to kill. >It just seemed interesting to me that by serving Saminga they >aren't bound by their band's rules of dissonance. Ditto Asmodeus'! >Neat loophole, I suppose. Still, don't want to encourage that >kind of behavior in the Shedim or else they might get slack and not >encourage ANYONE to be corrupt, and then, then - I ask you - where would >Hell be? With less cheap labor from damned souls? >Chris Eng >> (Any relation to Cecilia Eng, filksinger?) > >Nope, but I can filk with the best of 'em. Good show! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:07:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> "War" vs. "the War" At 1:46 AM -0400 9/25/97, Stacy Stroud wrote: >Quoth Archbeth: > >> They do not share a Word. Baal is "the War," >> Michael is War. Says so right on their pages in the main book. >> That is probably all that saves them from the same madness that >> afflicts Gabriel and (to a less-obvious extent) Belial. > >OK, so what is the operative difference between "War" and "the War"? War is the general concept, and "the War" is the war between Heaven & Hell. Of course, both put their own spin on things, and draw power from conflicts, since the celestial-tongue translations are, by necessity, innacurate. Or some handwaving like that... I think it's close to what they consider "important." Baal sees weapons and conflict as a way to weaken humanity and Heaven, so he takes his Word more broadly than some Princes. Is that useful, or do I need to eat dinner now? >I'm sure Michael and Baal will get their expanded writeups soon, but is >there anything you could share to clarify this point? Not much, yet... >(I recall earlier drafts of the game which suggested a difference I rather >liked. Michael's Word, translated literally from Angelic, was said to be >"War and Healing," implying the promotion of war as a way of *ending* >disputes and paving the way for peace and reconciliation. Baal's Word, >OTOH, was cited as "War and Treaties," implying the promotion of continual >conflict that "ends" only temporarily, and paves the way for new and >expanded conflicts in the very act of seeming to end. Is anything of that >distinction still being retained in the current conception of the two >characters?) Interesting. I certainly hope so. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:14:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! At 4:14 AM -0400 9/25/97, Thomas Davidson wrote: >On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: [...] >Nothing... nothing at all... I would (IMC) like to get at least the Norse >Myths right. Some questions about who survived Uriel's Purge have >prevented me from doing so. I can only hope that "Marches" will answer >these questions. I don't have a copy yet, but I hope to by the end of the >week. (Money, money, money. Darnit--it never seems as though Marc is on >my side.... *sigh*) Lessee... Thor was last seen holding off six Malakim. Loki and Odin are definitely kicking around. Valkyries and Einheriar are around. Hugin, Munin, Freke, Gere & Sleipner made it. Heimdall & Hela survive. And as for the rest, "many of the Aesir" escaped. >> [...] >> >But what if there's a group of humans who knows -- or perhaps suspects -- >> >the truth about the Symphony? Maybe God *did* rewrite the Symphony "in >> >His own image", casting Himself as Creator of all things; where He is the >> >Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent; He is the Alpha and the Omega. >> >> Hrm..... Maybe they're the ones who corrupted the Grigori? > >Wow. Talk about tangents! :) Thank you. I try. >Sure.... why not? Who would it be? It would most likely be a secret >society of some sort, on the order of the Illuminati, or the Knights >Templar. And what would be their motivation for doing such a thing? Gain allies, topple the structure that an Ethereal Jehova created? >Now, wait a minute. I just had a thought (they're rare, yes; I try to >keep it to a one-a-day maximum). In Nephilim (by Chaosium), the histories >of the Nephilim and the Templars are entertwined. [...] >Perhaps their Plan is to rewrite the Symphony *yet again*, so that God, >the Demons, the Angels are all out of the picture.... > >Hmmm..... the mouth salivates.... Sparked a plot seed, did I? >> [scribbles down stuff] > >I start to sweat when an LE starts scribbling.... usually means >trouble's-a-comin'! :) (you wouldn't do that, though, would you? :) ) Who, me? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:14:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: IN> Thor deceased? I don't think so. :) (For those of you who haven't seen "The Marches", it mentions in the bit about ethereal spirits and the old pagan gods that the only major Asgardian lost in Uriel's Crusade was Thor.) Being an old fan of the Thunder God and Norse myths in general, I take exception to this, so here's my little way of rectifying it. Can be used, with a little embellishment, as an adventure seed, or simply as a rather odd NPC. - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ - ---cut--- THE TRUTH ABOUT THOR Thor is the ancient Norse god of thunder, and he's pretty ticked off. The last time anybody saw him, he was hip deep in Malakim defending the Aesir's retreat from Asgard during Uriel's War. It was a bad day and he's still in a bad mood. Truth is, he has a pretty good reason for being annoyed: he's dead. All that remains of the Thunderer now is a collection of Forces that hover, Shedim-like, around his war hammer Mjollnir, possessing anyone who manages to pick up and wield the weapon. Over the centuries, Mjollnir has bounced from hand to hand, sometimes offering the Thunder God a host, sometimes not. (Given the absurd strength level it requires of its wielder, more often "not".) Thor burns for revenge: against the Malakim for what they did to Asgard; against Uriel for instigating the war that slaughtered so many of his kind and drove the rest into exile; against the rest of the Heavenly Host, for standing aside and watching. Still, he will have no dealings with the forces of Hell; he can smell the stench of their evil and wants no part of it. Though not vengefully angry with them, he feels disdain for modern humanity, who have for the most part abandoned the old gods and thrown their lot in with these Johnny-come-lately celestials and their supposedly omnipotent God. If he encounters a human who still sincerely believes in the gods of Asgard, he will be fiercely protective of that person. If he meets an angel who can convince the Thunderer that he sincerely believes Uriel's Crusade was wrong, he may revise his opinion of the celestials in general; on the other hand, he may not. Thor is notoriously stubborn. Thor's current host is a steelworker named Sigurd Jarlsson. Brawny but none too bright, Jarlsson is a bit deranged and half-seriously believes he is the reincarnation of Thor -anyway-. SIGURD JARLSSON Steelworker CORPOREAL FORCES - 3 Strength 9 Agility 3 ETHEREAL FORCES - 1 Intelligence 2 Precision 2 CELESTIAL FORCES - 1 Will 3 Perception 1 Skills: Climbing/4, Large Weapon/2, Knowledge (Norse myths)/6, Knowledge (steelworking)/3, Throwing/3, Survival (Arctic)/2 When Thor is in possession, which is most of the time these days, his stats looks more like this: THOR IRONHAMMER Norse God of Thunder CORPOREAL FORCES - 8 Strength 12 Agility 12 ETHEREAL FORCES - 4 Intelligence 7 Precision 9 CELESTIAL FORCES - 4 Will 10 Perception 6 Skills: Acrobatics/3, Fighting/6, Large Weapon/6, Running/4, Survival (Arctic)/5, Throwing/6, Tracking/4 Songs: Form (Corporeal/4), Motion (Corporeal/3), Shields (Corporeal/6, Celestial/3), Thunder/6 ARTIFACTS: - -- MJOLLNIR (Relic/Reliquary) Mjollnir is a massive, extremely heavy iron war hammer. It can be wielded as a Large Weapon (Power +5, Accuracy -2) by anyone with a Strength of 8 or higher. It can also be thrown (Power +3, Accuracy - -1, Range 10) by anyone strong enough to wield it. If thrown, Mjollnir returns to the person who threw it. Mjollnir normally does corporeal damage, but can also do celestial damage if the wielder/thrower wishes is. Mjollnir cannot be lifted or wielded by anyone with any Discord or more than two points of dissonance, or anyone with a Strength lower than 6. Songs: Light (Corporeal/3) Lightning (Corporeal/5, Celestial/5) This song causes a bolt of lightning to strike the target of the caster's choice. The lightning bolt has a range equal to ten yards per level, gets +1 to Accuracy and does a number of hits of the appropriate type equal to the check digit of the attack roll multiplied by the amount of Essence spent If the target is wearing metal armor the Corporeal form gets +3 to Accuracy. NOTE: Mjollnir can be made to perform this Song on impact with a target it is swung or thrown at, but in such cases it does not receive the Song's Accuracy bonuses and its Range is obviously inapplicable - its damage is merely added to the regular attack's. Motion (Corporeal/2) Thunder/3 Mjollnir contains 10 Essence which may be used to power its Songs. Thor may also use Mjollnir's Essence to power his own Songs - no other wielder may do so, nor may any other wielder use his own Essence to power Mjollnir. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:33:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> question re Saints At 4:24 PM +1000 9/25/97, Karen J Davies wrote: >Having at last got a copy of Night Music I have quickly perused the section >I was hanging out on the most, Saints. > >I have a question, on p14 it tells how saints, if returning to Corperality, >are reborn as infants and "remember" their nature at some time later on. >COuld an ANgel help this re-awkening or must it happen naturally? I'd say it's a GM call. I certainly wouldn't have much problem with an angel finding some clever way to do it, though. Perhaps Celestial Song of Tongues? One of the Songs of Projection? >My main question is in regard to the saints "vessel". If they were born >human, why do they have a vessel = to CF? ("..." I was not Line Editor for that book.) Okay... Vessels are more sturdy than humans get, right? Saints, having hung around Heaven for a while and gotten 7 forces (making them the equals of many NPC demons!) are tougher than most mortals. Call it a "bennie." [I'm not sure how canon the above answer is, so don't be surprised if it gets changed someday, errated to Saints having the same stats as normal humans...] >Why even mention a ROle if they are human in body? Sometimes, when an Archangel wants them to be in a certain place, the Archangel will gift the human with a knowledge-base similar to the ones that celestials get, when they're plonked down in a Role. It helps make sure the amnesiac Saint discovers his "aptitude" for something, and moves to the correct stratigic place. >Do they still have to eat etc unlike celestial's vessels? I would suspect that they eat and sleep like normal humans. However, at the GM's option, they may require much less of both. (You know people who don't eat hardly anything, and sleep some 3 hours a night, right?) >Do they age naturally like mortals and die, to return to heaven and >possibly return back and if so, do they keep all earned skills, Songs, >attunements etc gained? Since some of Michael's Saints have been "undercover" for "centuries," aging is obviously optional. It probably depends on the Superior, the Saint, and the mission. Yes, if they die, they keep everything they acquired (unless they really screwed up, in which case the Superior might want to remove the attunements, rather than let a loose cannon roam around Heaven, bored). >Can somebody help here? You're a mean, mean person, making me think about this... I hope it's helpful... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:14:44 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted > >Okay, I see. So he can write the past, but he can't stop the future > >from being variable. > > right... He has a great deal of influence, but anyone can buck God's > will, if they want... which means that, by definition, the God of my > game cannot be omnipotent, and is probably not omniscient (though He > comes close)... Well, if he rewrote the Symphony, then he knows all the parts he authored, and can extrapolate some. > >You probably want to make his rewriting of the > >Symphony a *really* hard thing to do, so that if God goes to do it > >again, it's going to be major, and something that can be stopped by > >the PCs. > > absolutely... i do note that God has as much as said that He will be > rewriting everything again at some future point - it is all recorded in > the Revelation of St. John... though i have no idea if i want the > campaign to ever involve the Battle of Armageddon... Oh, come on - try it once, you'll love it. [I am such a contradiction - I love gritty, I love epics. The two shouldn't fit together, but in my mind, they are starting to...] > >Well, I'm looking at it one of two ways. One is that Enki was a > >vessel of Lucifer, and his rebellion included the nam-shub. The > >other is that Lucifer was a human like Yahweh, one who had gained > >True Will (in the form of two Celestial forces). But that gets a > >lot into the origin of God, too... > > if i may, i heartily recommend reading _Paradise Lost_... it is not an > easy read, but is very much worth the effort... after reading it, the > movie _The Prophecy_ (1995) has a depiction of Lucifer that is > exquisite, even though he is not the focus of the movie... I may read _Paradise_ at some point, but don't bet on it. Maybe one of my classes next year will cover it. The Prophecy is a little more doable (though from what I saw of it, it's a horror flick, which bore me to no end). > >Haven't had contact with Nephilim, though - is it worth much in it's > >own right? > > depends on what you are looking for... i think it is very well-done, > with a strange, wistful feel rather like that of many of the 19th > century Romantic poets... Hmmm - I'll skim the books next time I'm in a store. Maybe. > >Voodoo is a good source, yes. I can't say I like a subjective > >universe much, which it comes across as, a little. Lots of good > >stuff about spirits, though... > > well, for me, that very subjectivity is important... my own views come > from a faintly post-modernist perspective, and i am not very sure that > anything but a subjective perspective is actually possible (which is one > reason i'd love to run an Elohite - the idea of trying, as a life > choice, to find objectivity fascinates me... i have a soft spot for > futile causes ;)... Hmm - I'm coming from the exact opposite side, that the universe is very objective. Plus, I played with the Mage idea mentally for about two months before giving up. And almost every metaphysical game out there goes for the "spirits are a manifestation of Man's beliefs"; it was starting to grate. > >I tend to prefer gritty over dark, personally - it leaves a lot more > >room for ambiguity. > > semantics... we seem to have a similar view, and my idea of "dark" > *requires* ambiguity... to my way of thinking, if one side is absolutely > "good", the other equally "evil", there will be no reason to ever > support the "evil" side, as all of its characteristics will be specially > chosen to be unsympathetic (witness, for instance, the medieval emphasis > that demons are weak and cowardly, not mean and nasty)... When I think dark, I think White Wolf, which tries for the "everybody is bad, everything sucks" school of depressive angst. And then I think of a toilet bowl... > with ambiguity, everything grows darker, and moral choices are more > murky and difficult... there is no enemy that one cannot find common > ground with... there is no action you can take against the enemy that > won't harm you in some way... you can't just kill Asmodeus, for instance > - he acts as an important check on demonkind, keeping them from becoming > too much of a nuisance... it would be like killing all of the cats in an > area: quickly, the mice will overrun the place... This actually borders on the dark I was refering to. I go more for: "Nothing's perfect, and lots of stuff is pretty far from it, but you could make a difference if you're tough, smart, and lucky. Or you could splatter on somebodies windshield." > Freya, Goddess of Love and War: If ya can't lay 'em, slay 'em. :-> Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:11:51 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> just a thought On Thu, 25 Sep 97 13:22 EDT, Walter Milliken wrote: >I view Vapula as foisting a lot of half-baked tech off on (mostly) >unsuspecting humans. Partly this is because there are a lot more humans >to be beta-testers, and partly this is because he's a Habbalite, and >*enjoys* watching humans cope with the fallout from poorly-thought-out >ideas. After all, if they trust in tech when they shouldn't, they >*deserve* what they get.... So, we're talking MicroSquish here, right? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:41:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Housewives (Long) On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Chris Eng wrote: > Just an idea, that was mullin' and creepin' and crawlin' around in my head > and > I liked it, so I worked it out. It's not perfect, but let me know what you > think. > > Suzanne > Angel of Housewives > Cherub Friend of Fire (Snip) I like her. I would have probably given her a little charisma though (it would help her when trying to get the battered housewives to trust her- trust is usually a huge issue in abused spouses). A couple of quick questions- Does she include househusbands as well? I assume she got her word before stay-at-home dads got more common, but how does she feel now? And finally- how does she feel about abusive wives? *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:14:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > So, we're talking MicroSquish here, right? Heh. this has come up in our campaign, actually. Bill Gates had already built most of his empire and had just released Windows when he got Vapula's full attention. Vapula was impressed by his shrewd deals and amused by the number of people who flocked to the MS software despite its many flaws. Vap has told his servants to not interfere with MS's business for the moment. Vapula figures that as long as people _want_ the shoddy software, they can have just what they deserve. Gates isn't a soldier et, but Vapula's pondering it... Oops da Ogre, it's the habbalah punishment thing kicking in mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:16:07 +1000 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Devil's Advocate (Slightly Off Topic) >On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:54:15 -0700, "Chris Eng" said: > >> Just saw an ad on TV for the new movie, "Devil's Advocate," starring >> al Pacino as Satan and Keanu Reeves as the Official Opposition >> (Canadian joke). Is that the best God can do? Man, we're doomed to >> darkness for sure. (Opens October 17) > >Well, Keanu plays a human, not an angel or other "official" >representative of God, AFAIK. > >'Sides, they probably thought we were doomed to darkness when David >went after Goliath, yah? :-) I dunno. Richard Gere inspires some confidence in King David. Keanu Reeves inspires none. >Hunter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:26:03 +1000 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness >So this raises the question: Why would they ever want to leave? In >for a penny, in for a pound here. Demons who are motivated by >selfishness (that'd be just about all of them I think) aren't going >to have some kind of epiphany in Hell, look around suddenly and go, >"Wow. It's all been a big lie. Maybe God isn't so bad after all. Gee, >I'm sorry. Whoops!" And then trudge, shamefully, back to Heaven, head >bowed apolegetically. But these same selfish guys might say I'm sick of contiually being on my guard. The guys on the other side of the fence seem to play fairer. Can I come and play too? >I strongly disagree with this. You can have Dark without Light -- >it's called Darkness. :) There doesn't /have/ to be symmetry here. >Surely you can look at two "Evils" and decide if one is more "Evil" >than another. Besides, if Lucifer wins, that's it for humanity (and >on a grander scope -- the Universe? I don't really want to go here.) I don't think so. The subjective nature of such qualifications require the two ends of the scale in order to place examples somewhere on that scale. >Mark Allen -- mallen@computer.org -- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #359 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.