From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Fri Sep 26 11:09:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10362 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:09:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA12854 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:42:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:42:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199709261442.JAA12854@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #360 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, September 26 1997 Volume 01 : Number 360 In this digest: IN> Angel of Housewives (Long) IN> "War" vs. "the War" IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness (reply in bulk) Re: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness RE: IN> Angel of Housewives (Long) Re: IN> just a thought IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse IN> Mjollnir Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness (reply in bulk) IN> some more questions IN> In Nomine Live-Action IN> The Calabim Experiment -- Document Number: CVX-034-DC-003-bis Re: IN> Thor deceased? I don't think so. :) IN> The Prophecy and source materials Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) Re: IN> The Prophecy and source materials Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:32:53 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Angel of Housewives (Long) Although this list is unmoderated, I think we could do without the gratuitous profanity. Now, I don't see why Suzanne should be the "Angel of Housewives". Seems to me "Angel of Abused Women" would be far more appropriate. Most housewives aren't abused, and a lot of abused women aren't housewives. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:32:56 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> "War" vs. "the War" The difference is, as you surmised, Michael's Word encompasses ALL armed conflict. It's not that he necessarily encourages it, or thinks war is always a good thing...rather, mankind has natural aggressive instincts, it's just part of our nature. Michael sees our God-given talent for beating the snot out of each other as being just as valuable as anything else...demonstrating skill at arms, courage, and honor in battle can glorify God and his creations just as much as prayer. The trick is getting us to use that talent against people who deserve it (like people who side with demons). That's how Michael sees it, anyway. Of course Novalis would seriously disagree with most of the above.... Baal's Word is "the War". He focuses on the War between Heaven and Hell. All other warfare is secondary. Sure, he encourages wars on Earth wherever possible, but NOT just because he likes war for the sake of war. Keeping humans at war (a) keeps the level of misery and oppression high, always beneficial to Hell's long-term strategic interests, (b) keeps humans experienced in the ways of war, preparing them for Armageddon (where Baal intends to have as many humans as possible fighting on Hell's side, and ultimately destroying themselves), and (c) it brings some of the most talented human warriors to the surface....so Baal's Servitors can recruit the ones who'll make good Hellsworn, and kill the ones who won't. Also, in a violent society, it's easier to find ways to take out the enemy violently. If there weren't so many wars going on on Earth, it would be much harder for Baal to mask some of his larger-scale operations. Hell would have to rely more on subtler Princes, and Baal's importance would be greatly diminished... But the bottom line is, everything Baal does is with a view towards THE War. The essential difference between Baal and Michael is that Michael is a warrior -- Baal is a soldier. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 23:15:56 -0400 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) Previously, from the desktop of "Emily K. Dresner" >It's a lure, really, to Hell, with the belief in Free Will and the right >to do what you please, as long as its in the bounds of your Master's >belief system. You get there and it's an incredible lie. You are bound >to a Master, clutching panically for existance, who is in turn bound to >the biggest liar in existance. Who is bound to what, God? Mankind? >There is no Free Will. There is only slavery, to your Master, your peers, >and your own cracked view of the universe, from which you cannot just walk >away. Especially when many angels didn't really have to fall to achieve that Free Will. How many archangels will micromanage their servants to the point where they can take no independent actions. There's Jean, and ...? Many of them have free reign on their jobs simply to make human lives better in whatever way they see. >I don't see honor, or even a twisted sense --- mostly because I see >Lucifer being the mover and the shaker behind the entire system. It may >have been one of his MOTIVATIONS, but one (I hope!) can be honorable >without being a Malakim. (I could end up with a really strange message thread out of this...) Malakim already have a fitting counterpart in Hell -- vastly different in many ways, but in certain respects frighteningly similar. They're called *Lilim*. No, really. Think about it... The Malakim resonance basically says "I'll honor my side of the deal." The Lilim resonance says "*You* honor *your* side of the deal..." >[And somewhere in the back of my mind is an image of Lucifer, alone, >realizing that without Heaven, he has no War and cannot justify his >continuing existance. Kinda the way a Seraph feels when he verbally puts his foot in something nasty, isn't it? "We should try this thing," says the Seraph. Later, Thinks the being who until recently was a Seraph, "Oops, this was a mistake. I hate it when that happens! Better just play along until I can figure out a way to clear it up." "See? This is much better than Hell. And you believe it too," says the Balseraph. > He is the dark mirror image of what it was he >fought against, and there cannot be a Dark without the Light, for Light is >the measure against which the shades of Darkness compare. Yet his Legions >outweight those of Heavens, and the souls they keep are far more numerous >then his counterparts. In the original Fall, Lucifer got 1/3 of the boss' original workers to defect over to his new enterprise. Since then, Hell has stepped up making new demons precisely by stepping up the stripping of Essence from the souls it has acquired. So between souls and new demons, I can see Heaven being ahead, but restricted to playing by certain rules. > He knows he must keep his armies weak, rife with >infighting, paranoid, mistrustful and enslaved to maintain the War. Yet >if something ever happened to God, or the Son of God, or the Legions of >Light, he himself would fade to nothingness. He NEEDS them. Maybe God is >a big Lilim? I think it's a comfort at times that even the angels and demons have no ability to comprehend God in their context. BTW, the whole "Son of God" thing in my campaign gets a little convoluted. Nobody's quite sure what happened, but there's a rough-hewn, crennelated marble statue of Jesus in extreme pain, on the grounds outside the building of the Seraphim Council. And to the question of "What was he," my response is "Which one?" I told you the Chez Ennui campaign is a kind of strange one... >Lucifer knows that Mankind no longer needs them. He alone maintains the >furvor of the War. It is his Selfish Greed which keep the Celestial >realms from going the way of the Ethereal, and to be replaced by something >grander, science. It's not that Mankind needs Hell, but Hell feels a need to destroy or discredit Mankind in order to prove that its own system works -- another strategy that a Balseraph might employ to avoid disonance. "If the declaration doesn't fit the facts, alter the facts to fit the declaration." - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ "Gabriel doesn't HAVE hot flashes... Gabriel IS a hot flash!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:27:12 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's > >And then there is the overall feel I get, that the came could > >degenerate into Vampire: the Masquarade with different trappings quite > >easily. > > Could, though we've found the feel to be vastly different. (Of course, > we play with brightness turned up a little above medium, and contrast > turned down a little.) Geez - that's a good way of putting it... My ideas tend to put the brightness a little below medium, almost no contrast, with a screwy tint (and a twitchy vertical hold...) 8^/ Plus, I prefer the big-screen TV... > Just make sure that not everyone they meet is a celestial, soldier, > or child of the Grigori... And make sure that important things in history often happen *without* supernatural interference. If I catch the guy who wrote the Chicago Fire, the eruption of Pompei, and lots of other historical events all into the backgrounds of two fighting elder vampires... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:07:27 -0500 From: Mark Allen Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness (reply in bulk) >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:11:58 -0400 >From: "Chuck Ryan" >Subject: IN> re>need for light and darkness >1) read dianetics by L.Rone.Huberd ( please excuse any misspelling here >an interesting but extremely disturbing look at the faith of scientology Uh, no thanks. I've already read Dianetics, found it frightfully funny, and then promptly ignored it. Besides, I already purchase far more gaming books than I can afford. I don't need some brainwashing cult (*cough* RPG manufacturers?) to help me spend my money. >2) the only really difference between magic and miracles is who gets the >credit >I did this = magic >God made this possible = miracle Well, perhaps that's the only difference /for you./ If you buy into this whole "God really exists" epistemology. I remain a devoted agnostic, perfectly happy to swing in the wind; right now I'm leaning more towards the athestic side. I believe, therefore (ATM), that miracles are merely misnamed events that are not explanable by human senses. No divine intervention here, thankyouverymuch. >CHUCK >------------------------------ >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:05:14 -0500 (CDT) >From: Donald G Bixler >Subject: Re: IN> re>need for light and darkness [snip] >> 1) read dianetics by L.Rone.Huberd ( please excuse any misspelling here >> an interesting but extremely disturbing look at the faith of scientology >It's L. Ron Hubbard and I don't think that it's appropriate since >Scientology is not strong in the science department. Heh. You can say that again! >> CHUCK >mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu >----------------------------- >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:26:03 +1000 >From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) >Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness >>So this raises the question: Why would they ever want to leave? In >>for a penny, in for a pound here. Demons who are motivated by >>selfishness (that'd be just about all of them I think) aren't going >>to have some kind of epiphany in Hell, look around suddenly and go, >>"Wow. It's all been a big lie. Maybe God isn't so bad after all. Gee, >>I'm sorry. Whoops!" And then trudge, shamefully, back to Heaven, head >>bowed apolegetically. >But these same selfish guys might say I'm sick of contiually being on my >guard. The guys on the other side of the fence seem to play fairer. Can I >come and play too? They might say that. Some of them. And then that's when the Prince of the Game and his servants drag the heretics, screaming, into the fiery bowels of Hell. Mmm. That has a certain nice mental imagery, doesn't it? *content sigh* (Brain twitch: Balseraph of Asmodeous wearing a button: We keep Hell satanized for your protection. - - AND - Another brain twitch: What if Hell is really Alpha Complex? Hmmmm. Note to SJ Games: We need GURPS Paranoia.) [snipped. My assertion that one can distinguish one evil as worse than another without "good."] >I don't think so. The subjective nature of such qualifications require the >two ends of the scale in order to place examples somewhere on that scale. I still disagree. And even if you buy this whole symmetry argument, then you have to buy it both ways. You're claiming, in the converse then, that light requires darkness; again, which I don't believe. "What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?" -- Blake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:12:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org wrote: > Malakim already have a fitting counterpart in Hell -- vastly different in > many ways, but in certain respects frighteningly similar. They're called > *Lilim*. > No, really. Think about it... The Malakim resonance basically says "I'll > honor my side of the deal." The Lilim resonance says "*You* honor *your* > side of the deal..." Freaky...I like it. > BTW, the whole "Son of God" thing in my campaign gets a little > convoluted. Nobody's quite sure what happened, but there's a rough-hewn, > crennelated marble statue of Jesus in extreme pain, on the grounds > outside the building of the Seraphim Council. And to the question of > "What was he," my response is "Which one?" You've piqued my interest with this one. Would you mind going into further detail? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:53:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness > >I strongly disagree with this. You can have Dark without Light -- > >it's called Darkness. :) There doesn't /have/ to be symmetry here. > I don't think so. The subjective nature of such qualifications require the > two ends of the scale in order to place examples somewhere on that scale. I don't know..thinking about it, while I'd certainly agree that you have to have both to KNOW what you have, I don't know that you need one TO have the other. Ie. we may require both, but I don't see where they require each other... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:10:15 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: RE: IN> Angel of Housewives (Long) >Suzanne >Angel of Housewives >Cherub Friend of Fire I *really* like this. And, yes, husbands get abused, too. Also, last time I check the statistics (1996), 40% of Lesbian relationships were abusive. But, it makes me wonder, just how it is that all the abusers are getting away with this? Fisuba The Demon of Abuse Shedim Baron of Inner Torment, Knight of Restlessness "You get off the phone right now, do you hear me?!!!" "Mary, I'd better get off the..." _click_ "Bob, don't get angry, I..." *WHAM!!!* "You sorry excuse for a wife! I slave over a desk all day for you *SLAP!* and what do I get in return?! *CRACK!* I... oh, god... what have I done?!" Malphas is very pleased with Fisuba. Playing on people's frustrations, feeling of dependency and lack of empathy, as well as manipulating people's perceptions of abuse (they ask for it, they provoke it, they like it), Fisuba has mananged to warp the notion of family for about three to four million abused women (in the U.S. alone) into a strange world of guilt, isolation, denial, and most of all, fear. Fear of reporting it, fear of abuse, fear that one is responsible for the abuse one receives. And that's just the way Fisuba likes it. In fact, Fisuba has managed to generate so much fear, distrust, and pain, that Beleth has given him a distinction herself! But perhaps Fisuba's most treasured brain-child is the vicious cirle of abuse. Fisuba helps his victims along this cycle, moving them through the four general stages: Tension, Incident, Remorse, and Honeymoon. At first other demons were skepical of the Honeymoon stage, until they witnessed its ability to hold the couple together, allowing the abuse to continue and escalate, driving the victim further into passivity and hopelessness, driving the batterer further to her/his Fate. Fisuba The Demon of Abuse Shedim Baron of Inner Torment, Knight of Restlessness Corporeal Forces 5 Strength 12 Agility 8 Ethereal Forces 5 Intelligence 11 Precision 9 Celestial Forces 5 Will 12 Perception 8 Songs: Attraction (Cele/5), Dreams(Corp/4,Ethe/5,Cele/4), Entropy(Cele/4), Healing(Cele/4), Tongues(Ethe/5) Skills: Detect Lies/6, Driving/5, Fighting/5, Lying/6, Emote/6, Singing/3 Attunements: Shedim of Factions, Habbalah of Factions, Imbroglio, Polarize Special Rites * Make a non-batterer into a batterer * Convince a victim the he or she "deserves" the abuse. Well, boys and girls, I don't have the time or energy to dream up a decent adventure seed except maybe: boy meets girl, or girl meets girl, or boy meets boy... How does Fisuba look? Please, feel free to comment - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd Angel of Forgetfulness, Demon of Confabulation "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:20:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > And sometimes they're the ^%$#^% angels in the Marches who give me > some great idea *WAAAAAY* too early in the morning and I can't > get back to sleep till I've written it down. Funny...I get those from Andrealphus... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:13:39 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse Whoops, I guess I didn't use the power of the Subject heading to my advantage. My last post should have had this message's Subject heading. :) Check it out, good stuff. (I'm told, don't take MY word for it) SNAFU, SNAFU, hopping through the forest... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd Angel of Forgetfulness, Demon of Confabulation "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:17:00 GMT From: marcus.evenstar@greymatter.com (Marcus Evenstar) Subject: IN> Mjollnir On 25SEP97, Benjamin D. Hutchins gave the I-N list an idea about just what happened to Thor after he disappeared under a pile of Malakites. IMHO, this concept ROCKS! This relic will definitely be part of my upcoming campaign. However, being an old-time Marvelite, I have a minor suggestion about the qualifications for yielding Mjollnir. His current concept was as follows: BJD> Thor's current host is a steelworker named Sigurd Jarlsson. BJD> CORPOREAL FORCES - 3 Strength 9 Agility 3 BJD> ETHEREAL FORCES - 1 Intelligence 2 Precision 2 BJD> CELESTIAL FORCES - 1 Will 3 Perception 1 BJD> MJOLLNIR (Relic/Reliquary: Mjollnir cannot be lifted or wielded by BJD> anyone with any Discord or more than two points of dissonance, or BJD> anyone with a Strength lower than 6. It is my considered opinion that such a powerful relic needs more than just faith and strength to wield. The bearer should also be able to understand his place in the Symphony and, to this end, should have six Forces (naturally or by infusion). I would give Sigurd another Celestial Force, raising Will to 5 and Perception to 3. "Humans don't have dissonance or Discord as such." (NM, p.33) Further on, it is noted that Soldiers would only have "mundane" disadvantages, not the supernatural ones like Stigmata, Aura or Need. If you need six Forces to utilize Mjollnir, I would also rule that certain Discords would also be unacceptable (e.g. Cowardly, Slothful or Merciful). The maximum allowed would be Discord/2. This would allow Mjollnir to come into the possession of a certain Crippled/2 doctor... ======================================================================= | GAT3.1 d- s+:++ a+ C++ U? LU? E? W- N++ o? K++ w+ O? M V? PS+++ PE- | | Y+ PGP- t+ 5+++ X+ R+++ tv b+++ DI++ D G++ e+ h--- r+++ y++(**) | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Do not disrupt my carefully controlled pattern of hype or | | YOU WILL BE PUT IN A BOX WITH BILL GATES AND SHAKEN." | | - James "Kibo" Parry (kibo@world.std.com) | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | marcus dot evenstar at greymatter dot com | ======================================================================= * RM 1.3 02440 * God created man in his own image, without His glasses on. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:36:30 +1000 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness >> >I strongly disagree with this. You can have Dark without Light -- >> >it's called Darkness. :) There doesn't /have/ to be symmetry here. >> I don't think so. The subjective nature of such qualifications require the >> two ends of the scale in order to place examples somewhere on that scale. > I don't know..thinking about it, while I'd certainly agree that >you have to have both to KNOW what you have, I don't know that you need >one TO have the other. Ie. we may require both, but I don't see where >they require each other... Agreed. But then one without the other makes debate superfluous. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:33:04 +1000 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness (reply in bulk) >>But these same selfish guys might say I'm sick of contiually being on my >>guard. The guys on the other side of the fence seem to play fairer. Can I >>come and play too? > >They might say that. Some of them. And then that's when the Prince of the >Game and his servants drag the heretics, screaming, into the fiery bowels >of Hell. Mmm. That has a certain nice mental imagery, doesn't it? *content >sigh* > >(Brain twitch: Balseraph of Asmodeous wearing a button: We keep Hell >satanized for your protection. That's cute. >>I don't think so. The subjective nature of such qualifications require the >>two ends of the scale in order to place examples somewhere on that scale. > >I still disagree. And even if you buy this whole symmetry argument, then >you have to buy it both ways. You're claiming, in the converse then, that >light requires darkness; again, which I don't believe. Not necessarily the existence of the 'thing' but in the ability to define it. For someone who has only ever known hell and possibly evil, what's good? Or evil for that matter? >Mark Allen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:48:04 +1000 From: jumpshot@iniaccess.net.au (Karen J Davies) Subject: IN> some more questions I will be running my first In Nomine campaogn next Saturday with my experienced GURPS group. I thought to start with I would use "A Feast of Blades". but I have a couple of questions that you guys might want to help me with first. 1)In Feast of Blades, I cannot understand why Hamet would give Roberto the calling card for Landridge House. It makes no sense that he would leave such an obvious trail to such an important place. And why wouldn't Roberto head to Landridge when he ran into trouble to seek out the "fellow sorcerer"? I just thought that somebody out there may have dealt with these questions when they ran the adventure and might be able to let me know what they did with it. 2)How many ways can a Celestial be detected? I seem to recall somebaody mentioning that somebody had done a write up on this subject so maybe I could be pointed in that direction. 3)How can a mortal/Soldier/Undead tell a Celestial/Soldier/undead from a mortal? Eg, could a Demon tell that a Sodlier of Hell was actually a SOldier of God in disguise? JD - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ,~,_/\ Karen J Davies |PO Box 376 / \ Sports Journalism/Photographics |Cessnock { } jumpshot@iniaccess.net.au |NSW 2325 \_,~~,_* <-- Cessnock, NSW, Australia. |Australia v |PH: 014 425 949 http://www.odyssee.net/~alexcap/sportsreport/ - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:21:56 +1000 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) Subject: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Taken from www.sjgames.com 1998 Core Books In 1998, we plan to release The Symphony, the In Nomine Live-Action Roleplaying Game, and Relics, a book of amazing toys for the In Nomine universe. Can anyone tell me whose doing what, when and to whom? Has anyone else considered rules for live-action? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:00:03 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> The Calabim Experiment -- Document Number: CVX-034-DC-003-bis It is not in fact true that Vapula created no Calabim servants. When the laboratory complex was still relatively new there was enough of a question in the mind of its Technical Director as to staffing policy that a variety of candidate lab technicians, researchers and field-testers were trialled in various positions. Following several educational but ultimately unfortunate mishaps, culminating in the premature firing of one of the TDs pet projects, the presence of this band was.. banned, and all serving members were reassigned to the autopsy-department to be assimilated. Unsurprisingly, this diktat lead to a great deal of destructive action in the short term, the more so because the TD flew into a rare fury which so inspired his servitors that they also took their rage out on the test equipment, some of which has since proven to be irreplaceable (or at least unreproducable which amounts to the same thing). However, one sole member of that band had happened to be on earth assignment and escaped the purges long enough to send a message back to Vapula himself. It was a brief technical memo which has been lost in the local archives since the TD appointed a new librarian who redesigned the shelving systems, but its contents are said to have convinced him that there was a task which did justify the retention of one Calabite -- although he swore there would never again be more. Following the swift correspondence of several more memos between the TDs late secretary and Lucifer's private office, assignment of a word soon followed.[1] As with so many of the TDs policy decisions, this stood the test of time remarkably well and the Calabite met with such success that it soon became clear that he might require some assistance. Accordingly, since his pride prevented him from creating or adopting more Calabim, the TD shifted a significant amount of research effort into the robotics labs. Early results were promising but limited, although several found use on the mortal place, and were later improved by mortal researchers, under appropriate inspiration. More recent models have moved on in leaps and strides and the TD claims that they are a great improvement over the Calabim, although perhaps slightly less able to maintain a realistic conversation. Recent rumours that the TD has funded a project to encourage one of the new models to become redeemed, in order to see whether such a thing is possible, are of course completely groundless and without proof. Stolp, Habbalah of Technology - ------------------------------------------------------------ [1] Linda, Calabite Baron of Destructive Testing (need I say more ;-) ). The job of any test engineer is to break the object, machine or code which is under test. A successful test is one in which the object fails. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to test the subject to destruction, in order to determine its limits. There is no creature in all the planes of hell so adept at creative methods of destruction as Linda, and together with the Yaldot (lit. daughters, the robot 'calabim') she pursues her mission to prove to humanity that everything, no matter how foolproof the design, can be broken. Its a tough job, but someone has to do it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:01:53 +1000 From: Jason Mulligan Subject: Re: IN> Thor deceased? I don't think so. :) Benjamin D. Hutchins wrote: > Thor's current host is a steelworker named Sigurd Jarlsson. Brawny > but none too bright, Jarlsson is a bit deranged and half-seriously > believes he is the reincarnation of Thor -anyway-. Nice. Lucky you didnt decide to have the host called Donald Blake or say Eric Masterson :) - -- Jason Mulligan "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd!" - Edmund Blackadder ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:54:16 +1000 From: Jason Mulligan Subject: IN> The Prophecy and source materials Well, I just watched the film The Prophecy (excellent film I thought) and the scene where Thomas is searching various books to find out what tha tatoo meant at the start got me wondering about source materials. In that scene, it showed a few books that would be quite useful. So, I decided to do a search on the net for them. For the record, they were called : Hebrew Cabalist Writings (the book Thomas actually used), and 'Jewish Magic and Superstition' and 'Jewish Encyclopedia' were both referenced in some of the entries shown on screen. Amazon books had a listing for 'Jewish Magic ...', but said it is extremely hard to get. Does anyone know of any net sources that would have any info like these books seem to have? - -- Jason Mulligan "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd!" - Edmund Blackadder ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:02:56 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action On Sep 26, 7:21pm, Christopher Stevenson wrote: > Subject: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > Taken from www.sjgames.com > > 1998 Core Books > > In 1998, we plan to release The Symphony, the In Nomine Live-Action > Roleplaying Game, and Relics, a book of amazing toys for the In Nomine > universe. > > Can anyone tell me whose doing what, when and to whom? Has anyone else > considered rules for live-action? The LARP is going to be written by the same people (probably) that are writing the current batch of In Nomine supplements. It should be late in '98. OTOH, Relics is probably going to be an early release (possibly even this year, but don't hold yer breath). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: lugaid@seanet.com Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted On 1997-09-25 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com >>which means that, by definition, the >>God of my game cannot be omnipotent, and is probably not >>omniscient (though He comes close)... >Well, if he rewrote the Symphony, then he knows all the parts he >authored, and can extrapolate some. yes, that is it exactly... but, some of the players are going off on jazzy riffs that are not exactly what He intended... >> absolutely... i do note that God has as much as said that He will >>be rewriting everything again at some future point - it is all >>recorded in the Revelation of St. John... though i have no idea >>if i want the campaign to ever involve the Battle of Armageddon... >Oh, come on - try it once, you'll love it. never can tell... >[I am such a contradiction - I love gritty, I love epics. The two >shouldn't fit together, but in my mind, they are starting to...] _Beowulf_ is a gritty epic... >I may read _Paradise_ at some point, but don't bet on it. Maybe one >of my classes next year will cover it. The Prophecy is a little >more doable (though from what I saw of it, it's a horror flick, >which bore me to no end). it is, after a fashion, a horror movie, though in the sense of _The Omen_ more than, say, _Hellraiser_... it's not particularly gory, either - you might say that it is more of a tragic story than a horrific one... plus, the idea of a Second War in Heaven is really spiff... >Hmm - I'm coming from the exact opposite side, that the universe is >very objective. Plus, I played with the Mage idea mentally for >about two months before giving up. well, that may be because the people who wrote _Mage_ didn't really understand what they were doing... i like the *idea* of _Mage_, but the execution is terribly flawed... >And almost every metaphysical >game out there goes for the "spirits are a manifestation of Man's >beliefs"; it was starting to grate. well, i think that _Voodoo_ doesn't really come from this perspective, except perhaps in the interpretation that the spirits can take on forms that are meaningful to humans... but the spirits themselves are independent, free-willed creatures that don't require humans in order to exist (in my own interpretation)... >When I think dark, I think White Wolf, which tries for the >"everybody is bad, everything sucks" school of depressive angst. >And then I think of a toilet bowl... well, their problem is trying to write adult-themed games from an adolescent perspective... you'll note that all of their games come from a perspective of "coming into power" - you become a vampire, you learn about your werewolf heritage, whatever... IN is fascinating in that it takes a very different tack: you have always been a Celestial, and don't have any time that you were not... it is not a game about growing up, it is a game about being... >> with ambiguity, everything grows darker, and moral choices are >>more murky and difficult... there is no enemy that one cannot >>find common ground with... there is no action you can take >>against the enemy that won't harm you in some way... you can't >>just kill Asmodeus, for instance - he acts as an important check >>on demonkind, keeping them from becoming too much of a nuisance... >>it would be like killing all of the cats in an area: quickly, the >>mice will overrun the place... >This actually borders on the dark I was refering to. I go more for: >"Nothing's perfect, and lots of stuff is pretty far from it, but you >could make a difference if you're tough, smart, and lucky. Or you >could splatter on somebodies windshield." i said that moral choices were difficult, not that they were impossible... if you are tough, smart, and lucky, you can find a situation in which you could just kill Asmodeus, without serious repercussions to your own side in the War... chances are, though, you will splatter on someone's windshield - and, more likely still, such luck will evade even the toughest and smartest... for tone, i guess you could say that i like the feel of a Raymond Chandler novel: "Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean"... Chandler was a hero, an idealist poet masquerading as a genre hack, and that one line is perhaps one of the best ever penned in English... Chandler understood the absurdity of idealism, but never abandoned it... another example of the kind of murky, bizarre moral conundrum i enjoy is the end of _Watchmen_... i look for ways to include that sort of distressingly difficult situation in my own games... Slan agus Beannachtai, Lugaid MacRobert Happiness is being left comatose by your lovers... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:32:32 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) Daid Wood writes: > Malakim already have a fitting counterpart in Hell -- vastly > different in many ways, but in certain respects frighteningly > similar. They're called *Lilim*. I agree totally. In fact, I thought it was obvious from the symmetry built into the hierarchies. There's one choir of angels with no fallen counterpart -- Malakim -- and one band of demons that has no "native" unfallen counterpart -- Lilim. The symmetry isn't quite perfect, since there are NO fallen Malakim and there are occasional bright Lilim. But then the symmetry between good and evil is never quite perfect. And, as you remark, Lilim are based on the dark side of promises, Malakim and honor being the bright side. Also, the angelic choir Malakim find most irritating is, if I recall correctly, the Kyriotates. The Lilim can't stand the fallen Kyriotates, the fleshless Sheddim. (In general, I think, the antipathies between choirs match the antipathies between bands. Of course, I'm running on personal memory, so this could all be wrong.) Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:44:36 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Prophecy and source materials People have mentioned "The Great Divorce" by C. S. Lewis as source material. Specifically, it gives interesting ideas for scenery in Heaven and Hell. I also recommend C. S. Lewis's "Preface to Paradise Lost," especially for those who would kinda like to read Milton but aren't sure they want to put all that much energy into it. Lewis's book is much shorter, written in modern English prose (rather than antique English verse), and might just convince you to read the original. Whether it does or not, it will give you several interesting ideas about demonic psychology and the anatomy of celestial forms. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:31:27 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > > Can anyone tell me whose doing what, when and to whom? Has anyone else > > considered rules for live-action? > > The LARP is going to be written by the same people (probably) > that are writing the current batch of In Nomine supplements. It should > be late in '98. Well, I'm a sort of a "LARP fanatic" (I'm currently running three live-action's chronicles - in 11 different cities... - and I've still got plans for two more in '98) and since I grabbed IN I couldn't stop thinking how it would be perfect for a LARP game... Time is really a problem, but I try as ever as possible to do some work on it's adaptation - and I think I'm already coming up with something... I managed to preserve the Interventions, but everything would be a lot easier if we had six fingers!! :-) Anyway, If somebody want to chat on the subject, drop me a line. Soon I'll have some solid stuff to put here - for you all to disturb the Symphony *in person*... Andre ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #360 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.