From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Sep 28 00:16:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA16938 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:16:07 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA17183 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:48:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:48:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199709280448.XAA17183@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #364 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, September 27 1997 Volume 01 : Number 364 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action IN> Janus & Valefor Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) Re: IN> Gratuitous Profanity Re: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> Angel of Housewives Re: IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action IN> IN source materials IN> Re: What good are tethers? IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted IN> Re:The various goals of major demons Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:50:53 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Earl Wajenberg wrote: > "Castle Falkenstein" has a LARP dueling system using playing cards, > which can be flashed about with more panache. And the Falkenstein crowd > is very big on panache. I don't know... I think LARP games should be a lot more focused on interpretation, I mean, it's a *roleplay* game, isn't? And live-action is one of its best forms... :-) I think, thus, that we must do everything to keep the "suspension of disbelief" on. And any 'strange' objects or actions brakes it all, y'know... I do prefer the 'rock-scissors-paper' of The Masquerade. Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:58:35 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted > > >Wow. Saw it. Very good - lots of good examples on how Celestials > >work. Gabriel seemed a lot like a Habbalite of Saminga with the > >ability to make mummies, for example. > > so you just made a typo? good... ;) Yep. > yeah, it is very much *the* movie for IN players... for myself, i see > Simon as being an Elohite of Yves or Michael, probably Yves... Maybe. Or maybe Mercurian - he was fairly good with people. That angel that died at the beginning - Calabim, or what? Probably competing with Gabriel for the soul, as opposed to being on his side. > Gabriel as a Habbalite did not occur to me... i like it... and, if > Simon is an Elohite, that is particularly interesting - Habbalah > are, of course, Fallen Elohim... I mainly see him as Habbalah because he still thinks he's an angel. He didn't do very much emotional twisting (he manipulated, he may have caused Fear in his servants), and he wasn't very emotional himself. > what did you think of the strange twist of Lucifer being a major help? Interesting...I am trying to find a way to do something like that in a game. (Though he didn't strike me as Lucifer, but rather a smaller player, probably Balseraph. I doubt Lucifer Himself would be so uncouth as to bark...) > might be that Gabriel was turning/had turned renegade, and Lucifer > wanted to recover him? always fun to reinterpret a story in another > framework... Maybe, if Lucifer is a Balseraph of Game. Or they could just have been rivals, and Lucifer wanted to muck up Gabriel's plan. So what were they *really* doing with that soul? I'm thinking of writing up an interpretation for the movie, in IN terms - great plot material, there. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com 21. Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a good hot bath. - How to Be a Cultist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:58:46 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse >From: "Chris Eng" >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:14:34 -0700 > >> From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" >> Subject: IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse > >You trying to start something, huh? You got a problem? I'll meet you >outside afterschool. Yeah, by the tetherball courts. You bring your >demons and I'll bring my angels and we'll settle this - Celestials to >Celestials! > >(That showed 'im.) Why not a little one on one? Suzanne and Fisuba in a little h-t-h... 'Course, that would be three on one, wouldn't it? >:) That's the problem with Shedim... Cherub heads, cherub heads, roly-poly cherub heads... :) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd Angel of Forgetfulness, Demon of Confabulation "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:03:21 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > Oops! It *is* a coincidence!! My real name is Andre and... wait a > minute... 'most dread Prince Andre'...hmmm...I *love* it...! :-) > > Prince Andre How many Superiors do we have on list, anyway? I've seen two Davids, Andre, and of course Beth. Gabriel, Michael, Marc, Laurence, and Jean are possible, though I don't remember any off the top of my head. DPs don't seem to be as possible... Nathaniel Eliot, who used to use the handle Janus, once apon a time... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:55:52 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: IN> Janus & Valefor I know it's been said before, but Janus and Valefor are the same Celestial. For those of you interested - I put a list of everything they have in common at the end of the list. There's about five things that aren't common - part of the dissonance conditions, some of the rites, the chance of and modifiers to invocation, resonances for Malakim/Lilim, and physical description. How does he pull it off, and what is he, exactly? I don't think he's a demon, because if he was, getting into heaven might be a problem. Also, he is described as being well dressed for a Calabim, which implies that the chaos field doesn't muck up his clothes like it does others. My feeling is he looks like he does demonically as his base state, and his lower invocation as a AA is because he has to strap on fake muscles every time he appears... So, is there an official Word on this? And can we see it now, or are we going to wait until they hit a suppliment (what *is* the schedule for AAs and suppliments)? - --------------cut here------------------ Dissonance: Janus: It is dissonant for servants of Janus to stay in the same locale for more than three days. Valefor: It is dissonant for servants of Janus to stay in the same locale for more than three days... Choir Attunements: Seraphim/Balseraph: Janus: Add Celestial Forces to Fast-Talk. Valefor: Add Celestial Forces to resonance. Cherubim/Djinn: Janus: Only attune to one at a time, but attuned is servant. Valefor: Only attune to one at a time, but attuned is servant. Ofanim/Calabim: Janus: Add Ethereal Forces to break locks. Valefor: Add Ethereal Forces to break locks. Elohim/Habbalah: Janus: Predict weather Ethereal Forces days into the future. Valefor: Predict weather Ethereal Forces days into the future. Kyriotate/Shedim: Janus: Take gaseous form. Valefor: Take gaesous form. Mercurian/Impudite: Janus: Move through crowds, tell if item is stolen. Valefor: Move through crowds, tell if item is stolen. Attunements: Janus: Passage and Swipe Valefor: Passage and Swipe Distictions: Vassal/Knight: Janus: Communicate in gesture Valefor: Communicate in gesture Friend/Captain: Janus: Know if your being watched Valefor: Know if your being watched Master/Baron: Janus: Move fast and silent Valefor: Move fast and silent Rite: Janus: Spend 1 hour in 80+ mph winds Valefor: Spend 1 hour in 80+ mph winds Invocation modifiers: Janus: +1 - steal a newspaper Valefor: +1 - steal a newspaper Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com 21. Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a good hot bath. - How to Be a Cultist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:11:28 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> just a thought >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 97 11:14 EDT >From: Walter Milliken > > >>On Thu, 25 Sep 97 13:22 EDT, Walter Milliken wrote: >> >>>I view Vapula as foisting a lot of half-baked tech off on (mostly) >>>unsuspecting humans. Partly this is because there are a lot more humans >>>to be beta-testers, and partly this is because he's a Habbalite, and >>>*enjoys* watching humans cope with the fallout from poorly-thought-out >>>ideas. After all, if they trust in tech when they shouldn't, they >>>*deserve* what they get.... >> >>So, we're talking MicroSquish here, right? > >I tend to think of Bill Gates as a Soldier of Vapula who's gotten out of >control. Or maybe not... Vapula *is* a Habbalite. On the other hand, following the logic of the Habbalah, who really *do* believe that they are helping humanity, does Bill Gates really believe that he's _helping_ humanity? - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd Angel of Forgetfulness, Demon of Confabulation "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:20:23 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer & The Big Lie (was Malakim, Lucifer) >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:14:25 -0400 (EDT) >From: "Emily K. Dresner" > >I've always sort of thought this way. Mostly because they are not so much >opposites as analagous of each other. Unlike the other Bands and Choirs, >the Malakim and Lilim stand where they do not - the Grey, the fuzzy area >inbetween. > >You can be a very good Malakim. You can be a very evil Malakim. Both >attain the same goal. Yee-haw!!!! Heck, yeah! God o' Wrath o' Rama!!! > >You can be a very good Lilim (and find yourself Bright on accident - have >to watch that.) Or you can be a very evil Lilim. "Bright on accident" - that'd have to suck. Talk about reorientation... > >But either way, the majority stand in the middle, rubbing out the lines >between Heaven and Hell with their toes. I know _I've_ had this "grey area" conversation with my players, one of whom was _convinced_ that there was no way Malakim should exist, at least not as angels. I defended their position by ruling that for the most part, Malakim destroy only demons, and when they kill humans, there's *NO* disturbance in the symphony... - -sigh- - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd Angel of Forgetfulness, Demon of Confabulation "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:08:35 -0700 From: "Chris Eng" Subject: Re: IN> Gratuitous Profanity > Note: *I* was not offended by the gratuitous profanity. I use words like > that myself when sufficiently provoked. >;D But this is a public, > unmoderated list. Usually it's simply considered bad manners to use such > language in such a venue, just as it's considered bad manners to swear in > public (yes, I know a lot of people have bad manners....) All right, point taken. There was a slight knee-jerk reaction in the last post. I apologise to anyone who was offended by my choice of words, and I'll do my best to keep my colourful language in check. Chris Eng ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:30:57 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action In a message dated 9/27/97 10:20:44 AM, you wrote: >> Oops! It *is* a coincidence!! My real name is Andre and... wait a >> minute... 'most dread Prince Andre'...hmmm...I *love* it...! :-) >> >> Prince Andre > >How many Superiors do we have on list, anyway? I've seen two Davids, >Andre, and of course Beth. Gabriel, Michael, Marc, Laurence, and >Jean are possible, though I don't remember any off the top of my >head. DPs don't seem to be as possible... > > >Nathaniel Eliot, who used to use the handle Janus, once apon a >time... Hey, I'm Mark *with a "k"* Mark (N0T Marc, thank you very much) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:57:00 -0700 From: "Chris Eng" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Housewives > From: David Edelstein > Subject: IN> Angel of Housewives and Gratuitous Profanity > >>>That's not entirely true. Do you consider calling your spouse, > "Stupid," > abuse? It is. Just because it doesn't leave bruises doesn't mean it's not > damaging. There are many different kinds of abuse and the physical aspect > is only one of many.<<< > > Thank you for enlightening me, oh Sensitive Man of the 90s. > > Yes, I know verbal abuse and emotional abuse is also bad. That's good. A startling amount of men out there don't. > Though depending on the context, I would not say that calling someone "stupid" > is automatically verbal abuse. (Hmm, does Suzanne kill men who call their > wives "stupid"? Or just hang them off the balcony by their ankles until > they promise to bring roses home tomorrow evening?) I still say that most > housewives aren't abused, certainly not to a degree that would require an > angel to go around executing their husbands. Didn't say she went around executing men that call their wives "stupid". Just pointed out that it could be construed as abuse. If they said it once, then it probably wouldn't register to Suzanne, it was the repeat offenders that she deals with. Repeated emotional abuse. > >>>Incidentally, a number of a very high order (I believe it's somewhere in > the high 60%'s) of women admitted to hospital emergency rooms are there as > a result of spousal abuse.<<< > > Yes, but that does not mean that 60% of women are abused. > > Most women don't wind up in the hospital emergency room. It makes sense > that many of those who do are victims of abuse. I never said that 60% of women are abused. But don't you think that 60% of women being admitted to hospitals - 60% of all women being admitted every day - is a rather overly large figure? Don't you think 50% would be a little much? How about 40%? The point is that no matter what the figure is, a ludicrous amount of women are being admitted to emergency wards every day are there because of spousal abuse. No most women aren't admitted to emergency wards. Some go throughout their entire life never having to go to one, but a large number do, and of that many of them are abused. You also likened spousal abuse to teen suicide, and let me just say that it is FAR more common than teen suicide. Let's not forget the women who never go to the hospitals for their injuries. > You have her solely obsessed with abused housewives. So if she doesn't > particularly care about women who are raped or abused if they aren't > married (or if they are married but happen to have an outside job), perhaps > she should be the "Angel of Abused Housewives". Possibly a servant of > either the (much broader in scope) Angel of Abused Women or the Angel of > Housewives. Okay, I concede a point here. I probably shouldn't have given her a word so wide in scope. Still, to address all of your other points about housewives, I would digress beyond the point of this forum. I'm not willing or interested in doing that. I will simply direct you to Backlash by Susan Faludi which should clear up any misconceptions about they way that women are viewed and treated in our society. One of the biggest myths going today is that women are just complainers and "it's all in their mind". It's not. Chris Eng, Sensitive Man of The 90s (or maybe just some guy who isn't willing to view women in the same light that they have been for the last couple of millenia. If that makes me sensitive, then "Aw, shoot," I guess I'm sensitive. Like that's some kind of grave insult or something ...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:31:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Fisuba, The Demon of Abuse >Why not a little one on one? Suzanne and Fisuba in a little h-t-h... >'Course, that would be three on one, wouldn't it? >:) That's the >problem with Shedim... Nah, thats the problem with Kyros. :) I guess a Shedim could "tag team" jumping from body to body... there's a weird picture. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:29:08 +0100 From: "cd skogsberg" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > Oops! It *is* a coincidence!! My real name is Andre and... wait a > > minute... 'most dread Prince Andre'...hmmm...I *love* it...! :-) > > > > Prince Andre > > How many Superiors do we have on list, anyway? I've seen two > Davids, Andre, and of course Beth. Gabriel, Michael, Marc, > Laurence, and Jean are possible, though I don't remember any off the > top of my head. DPs don't seem to be as possible... Well, my name is David, but I don't consider myself an angel... cd Demon of Hunger, Servant of Haagenti. - -- "And it has come to pass that the Lord of the Woods, being ... Seven and nine, down the onyx steps ... (tri)butes to Him in the Gulf, Aza- thoth, He of Whom Thou hast taught us marv(els ..." - H. P. Lovecraft, _The Whisperer in Darkness_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:47:19 +0000 From: cgray@kirk.microsys.net Subject: IN> IN source materials > >I also recommend C. S. Lewis's "Preface to Paradise Lost," > >especially for those who would kinda like to read Milton but > >aren't sure they want to put all that much energy into it. > >Lewis's book is much shorter, written in modern English prose > >(rather than antique English verse), and might just convince > >you to read the original. Whether it does or not, it will give > >you several interesting ideas about demonic psychology and > >the anatomy of celestial forms. > > > While we're on the Inklings, Don't forget _The_Screwtape_Letters_, also by > C.S. Lewis. Letter's from a Demon's uncle, instructing him in the corruption > of a human soul. > The screwtape Letters is also a very good look at the personality of Demons. Lewis gives a very dark view of them... Don't look for any sympathetic characters in it. However, It can give a very good reason why a PC might want to redeem. Another nice thing about it is that it demonstrates that the last thing many demons want is to kill off their "patients".... at least until they feel certain that they're hell bound of course. Finally, there is an excellent series fo books by Holly Isle, showing how the best plans of Hell can often be short-circuited by the oddest acts of good will. Her demons, like Lewis's, are sadistic and utterly evil. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:10:33 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: What good are tethers? >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:52:16 -0400 (EDT) >From: Casca > >On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Emily K. Dresner wrote: > >> Worse... what I'm thinking about doing in my game, is to make some >> infernal tethers rips in the fabric of reality into the Pit from which >> the demons come and go. > >I've had a nagging question in my head for a while and I think you might >be the one to answer it, based upon what you said in your post. > >What purpose do tethers serve? I don't see any reason for their >existence. Sure, they make it easier to go to Heaven or Hell, but the >same can be done by assume Celestial form and ascending/descending. They >make it easier to summon the Superior they're consecrated to by adding, >what, a +2? Big deal. Celestials can work off dissonance at a tether, and >that's about all the use I can find for them. Hmmm...What good is a tether... Well, first, there's the obious: It's a little bit of heaven (or Hell, or The Marches) pulled down to Earth, a place where the barriers between the realms are weakened, making travel between the planes a lot easier. If you want to deploy a lot of your Angels/Demons/Spirits at one time, A tether's a good place to bring them down. And there's the Dissonance thing. Second: It's a turf marker. It says "This High-School Chemistry Lab, and the rest of its environs are the Dominion of Vapula, Demon Prince of Technology. Angels, Spirits, and Small Yapping Dogs beware." for example. Third: It's a status symbol. It says "Not only am I an Archangel, but I'm a pretty cool Archangel. My Word evokes sufficient responce on Earth that thethers can be built, and I'm powerful enough to do it." The more Tethers one has, usually, the more powerful one is. Tethers. Collect 'em, Trade 'em, Race 'em. Well, maybe not the last two. Fourth: It's a mighty fortress. Should the Host decide to break up your operation in a city, it's a place to fall back on, where, should you decide to, you can start pouring reinforcements into the corporeal world from. Fifth: It's a refuge. Should your servitors or friend's servitors bite off more than they can chew, they can high-tail it to the Tether and wait for help. Generally, the Tether's staffed by a sufficiently powerful celestial to deal with most threats, if she's inclined to. Sixth: It's a reward. Appointment as a Seneschal is a reward to the servitor who gets it. Do well, and it practically guarantees a Word. And to take the Demonic View, it will be a Word that poses no threat to your Superior's word. A Word that can never become Demon Prince Caliber. Whoever heard of a Demon Prince of the Sunken Hulk of the Titanic? Seventh: It's a cloak. Tethers make lots of Noise. Celestials go up, celestials go down. Aftereffects of Songs Sung in Heaven ripple down it. Wanna do something noisy? Do it in a tether. Gain the tether's protection, plus submerge the Disturbance among the other disturbances it's making (I think this last one is based on a Non-Canon opinion) Well, there are seven things Tethers are good for. Collect 'em, trade 'em, race 'em. Well, probably not the last two. \|=) = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. Smoking or Non? ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:02:01 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions Hi, I'm creating a Kyriotate of Jean for a forthcoming campaign, and wanted to check up on a few things: * Can you use any of the Songs of Form on a host, as opposed to a vessel? If so, combined with Numinous Corpus:Wings, you could have invisible flying toasters :-) * Similarly, can a Kyriotate of Jean possess a machine and repair it with the Corporeal song of Healing? * If you possess a machine that has been switched off, can you turn yourself on? Similarly, turn a machine off automatically? * Can you use the Corporeal song of Motion to move a machine you possess, even if it could not normally move? Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Long time the manxome foe he sought ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:10:23 -0700 (PDT) From: lugaid@seanet.com Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted On 1997-09-27 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com >Nope - The Prophecy, Christopher Walken as Gabriel (I know he was >intended to be *the* Gabriel, but he didn't strike me as Angelic, >but Habbalic). Cool examples of high powered Songs, from Celestial >Charm (reduce Will to make people listen to commands), the ability >to make Mummies, and some Song that knocks people out (Celestial >Entropy?). don't forget the ability to start fires... on people/Angels... perhaps he got the Incendiary attunement from Belial? >> _The Omen_ is good, too, but of a somewhat different nature, and >> not so conducive to Celestials' plot seeds as _The Prophecy_ >Is the Omen worth watching? Any other good ones? it is much darker in tone, mainly due to the ending... i like it, but that doesn't mean anyone else would... the demon dogs are really spiff, though... try _Wings of Desire_, Wim Wenders essay into Celestial film... it is brighter, about a couple of Angels in West Berlin who consider the idea of being mortal... it has a sequel, called _Faraway, So Close!_, which is not as good, but still worthwhile... of course, i think both are worth seeing just for Solveig Dommartin, who i first saw in Wenders' _Until the End of the World_, which is a slow, sensual, cyberpunkish love story, having nothing particularly to do with Angels... >> but Calvin-ball is really fun! and results in strange things like >> Calvinism... (ok, i'll stop with the bad religious puns... ;) >It's fun, *in Calvin & Hobbes*. Have you ever tried playing it in >real life? there's a game called Nomic which is basically Calvin-ball... you start with a list of rules, and the ability to make new rules, including rules which change the old rules... you can even change such fundamentals as how the new rules come into play, how to win, and so forth... there are some internet games of Nomic which have been going on for several years, and have changed every rule multiple times... >> i do agree with you, and i can't think of how they could execute >>it so that it would work... but the *idea* is a good one... >It would work better in a cooperative story type RPG better than one >that used any real rules. probably, but in my world, those are not really role-playing *games*, but a different, though related, creature, like improv theater... Slan agus Beannachtai, Lugaid MacRobert I am a hawk on a cliff Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:10:32 -0700 (PDT) From: lugaid@seanet.com Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted On 1997-09-27 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com >> yeah, it is very much *the* movie for IN players... for myself, i >>see Simon as being an Elohite of Yves or Michael, probably Yves... >Maybe. Or maybe Mercurian - he was fairly good with people. i thought about Mercurian, but a Mercurian would have handled Thomas much better when he was in the apartment... >That angel that died at the beginning - Calabim, or what? Probably >competing with Gabriel for the soul, as opposed to being on his >side. Uziel? i think he was a Djinn - "Prized for their dogged nature..." fits the hours-long vigil he sat outside Simon's apartment... probably of Saminga, and had attuned himself to Simon somehow... the Djinn Attunement of Saminga would allow him to kill or harm the object of his Resonance... i think that he and Gabriel were in alliance, though (even if loosely and maybe temporarily)... >> Gabriel as a Habbalite did not occur to me... i like it... and, if >> Simon is an Elohite, that is particularly interesting - Habbalah >> are, of course, Fallen Elohim... >I mainly see him as Habbalah because he still thinks he's an angel. >He didn't do very much emotional twisting (he manipulated, he may >have caused Fear in his servants), and he wasn't very emotional >himself. the Habbalah entry says, "This doesn't mean that a Habbalite is any more emotional on the surface than an Elohite." and Gabriel *was* very much ruled by his emotions (think of the interrogation/torture scene)... and he was certainly playing with the emotions of both of his undead creations, as well as the teacher ("You're right... you have *no idea* what is going on here.") also, it works really well when Simon asks him, "When did you lose your Grace?" if both were once Elohim together, and Gabriel still thinks of himself as an Angel... >> what did you think of the strange twist of Lucifer being a major >>help? >Interesting...I am trying to find a way to do something like that in >a game. (Though he didn't strike me as Lucifer, but rather a >smaller player, probably Balseraph. I doubt Lucifer Himself would >be so uncouth as to bark...) hehehe... unless maybe he was deliberately messing with her head... but, i think that you might be right, that he was a Balseraph, lying like a rug... (i still love that line, though, "I am the *first* angel, loved once above all others"...) >> might be that Gabriel was turning/had turned renegade, and Lucifer >> wanted to recover him? always fun to reinterpret a story in >>another framework... >Maybe, if Lucifer is a Balseraph of Game. Or they could just have >been rivals, and Lucifer wanted to muck up Gabriel's plan. yeah, that's probably it... a Balseraph of Asmodeus... or possibly even Asmodeus himself (though i doubt it)? >So what were they *really* doing with that soul? I'm thinking of >writing up an interpretation for the movie, in IN terms - great plot >material, there. i'm not sure, though i think that Gabriel and Uziel were both trying to reshape it into a Demon, or perhaps it *was* a Demon, part of their alliance, maybe a Shedim who came close to being a Remnant... Slan agus Beannachtai, Lugaid MacRobert "Like us, the Muppets imitate human beings. But they do it better." Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:35:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions On Sun, 28 Sep 1997, Sam Kington wrote: > * Can you use any of the Songs of Form on a host, as opposed to a > vessel? If so, combined with Numinous Corpus:Wings, you could have > invisible flying toasters :-) > * Similarly, can a Kyriotate of Jean possess a machine and repair it > with the Corporeal song of Healing? > * If you possess a machine that has been switched off, can you turn > yourself on? Similarly, turn a machine off automatically? > * Can you use the Corporeal song of Motion to move a machine you > possess, even if it could not normally move? Yes to all of these. Check the IN FAQ for more detail. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:06:21 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted > >Nope - The Prophecy, Christopher Walken as Gabriel (I know he was > >intended to be *the* Gabriel, but he didn't strike me as Angelic, > >but Habbalic). Cool examples of high powered Songs, from Celestial > >Charm (reduce Will to make people listen to commands), the ability > >to make Mummies, and some Song that knocks people out (Celestial > >Entropy?). > > don't forget the ability to start fires... on people/Angels... perhaps > he got the Incendiary attunement from Belial? Probably. > >Is the Omen worth watching? Any other good ones? > > it is much darker in tone, mainly due to the ending... i like it, but > that doesn't mean anyone else would... the demon dogs are really spiff, > though... Maybe, then... > try _Wings of Desire_, Wim Wenders essay into Celestial film... it is > brighter, about a couple of Angels in West Berlin who consider the idea > of being mortal... it has a sequel, called _Faraway, So Close!_, which > is not as good, but still worthwhile... of course, i think both are > worth seeing just for Solveig Dommartin, who i first saw in Wenders' > _Until the End of the World_, which is a slow, sensual, cyberpunkish > love story, having nothing particularly to do with Angels... I don't know how well our movie store stocks these, but I will see. > >> but Calvin-ball is really fun! and results in strange things like > >> Calvinism... (ok, i'll stop with the bad religious puns... ;) > >It's fun, *in Calvin & Hobbes*. Have you ever tried playing it in > >real life? > > there's a game called Nomic which is basically Calvin-ball... you start > with a list of rules, and the ability to make new rules, including rules > which change the old rules... you can even change such fundamentals as > how the new rules come into play, how to win, and so forth... there are > some internet games of Nomic which have been going on for several years, > and have changed every rule multiple times... Yeah, but there are rules about how rules change. It's not a "I win", "no, I win" game. > >> i do agree with you, and i can't think of how they could execute > >>it so that it would work... but the *idea* is a good one... > >It would work better in a cooperative story type RPG better than one > >that used any real rules. > > probably, but in my world, those are not really role-playing *games*, > but a different, though related, creature, like improv theater... Exactly. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com 21. Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a good hot bath. - How to Be a Cultist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons It seems like every saturday I run a game of In Nomine, and every saturday night finds me with a question-of-the-week. When I look at my campaign city (Chicago) I know what most of my princes want. Haagenti wants to turn the "City of Big Shoulders" into the "City of Big Appetites and Bulging Tummy's"- He loves the "Taste of Chicago" Festival. Kobal wants to humiliate the city, in a way that will ruin it forever. Saminga has read all the WOD material on Chicago and wants to establish a secret undead kingdom of his own... Malphas and Beleth want to turn it into a scary place...kind of Alpha complex gone gothic. Baal wants to encourage America to embrace imperialism and military adventurism, and wants Chicago to be the heart of the new war industry. Belial...well, if you know anything about Chicago's history you know what he would like to do...again. But suddenly I started wondering about Lilith. She wheels, she deals, she scoops up souls in her web of geasa. But favors tend to be a means to an end...so what would Lilith want? What is she after? I feel like this has been asked, but the question remains. - -Calabim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:37:41 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted > >> yeah, it is very much *the* movie for IN players... for myself, i > >>see Simon as being an Elohite of Yves or Michael, probably Yves... > >Maybe. Or maybe Mercurian - he was fairly good with people. > > i thought about Mercurian, but a Mercurian would have handled Thomas > much better when he was in the apartment... Maybe he was a Cherub? Wait, I have it. Cherub of Dreams, who used to be attuned to Thomas for years. Just as Thomas was being confirmed, a Servator of Fear attacked him, and Thomas saw that because of the long attunement. > >That angel that died at the beginning - Calabim, or what? Probably > >competing with Gabriel for the soul, as opposed to being on his > >side. > > Uziel? i think he was a Djinn - "Prized for their dogged nature..." fits > the hours-long vigil he sat outside Simon's apartment... Good point - I'd forgotten that. Yup, it fits. > the Djinn Attunement of Saminga would allow him to kill or harm > the object of his Resonance... i think that he and Gabriel were in > alliance, though (even if loosely and maybe temporarily)... Okay, that works. > >I mainly see him as Habbalah because he still thinks he's an angel. > >He didn't do very much emotional twisting (he manipulated, he may > >have caused Fear in his servants), and he wasn't very emotional > >himself. > > the Habbalah entry says, "This doesn't mean that a Habbalite is any more > emotional on the surface than an Elohite." and Gabriel *was* very much > ruled by his emotions (think of the interrogation/torture scene)... and > he was certainly playing with the emotions of both of his undead > creations, as well as the teacher ("You're right... you have *no idea* > what is going on here.") Yup. Okay - Habbalah of Saminga. Ethereal Discord - Delusion: I am Gabriel (backed with an attunement from Belial). Kobal loves the whole thing, probably, and is just waiting for some angel of Fire to put a beat-down on his ass. > also, it works really well when Simon asks him, "When did you lose your > Grace?" if both were once Elohim together, and Gabriel still thinks of > himself as an Angel... They don't need to both be Elohim for that; it'll work with another Choir. > >Interesting...I am trying to find a way to do something like that in > >a game. (Though he didn't strike me as Lucifer, but rather a > >smaller player, probably Balseraph. I doubt Lucifer Himself would > >be so uncouth as to bark...) > > hehehe... unless maybe he was deliberately messing with her head... but, > i think that you might be right, that he was a Balseraph, lying like a > rug... (i still love that line, though, "I am the *first* angel, loved > once above all others"...) He said that, and I thought "Yves?". Then I remembered they weren't doing IN... > >> might be that Gabriel was turning/had turned renegade, and Lucifer > >> wanted to recover him? always fun to reinterpret a story in > >>another framework... > >Maybe, if Lucifer is a Balseraph of Game. Or they could just have > >been rivals, and Lucifer wanted to muck up Gabriel's plan. > > yeah, that's probably it... a Balseraph of Asmodeus... or possibly even > Asmodeus himself (though i doubt it)? I don't think this was a Superior's thing, or else the humans wouldn't have even been involved, except as the requisite innocent bystanders. Asmodeus himself would have mopped floor with Gabe as we are looking at him right now. > >So what were they *really* doing with that soul? I'm thinking of > >writing up an interpretation for the movie, in IN terms - great plot > >material, there. > > i'm not sure, though i think that Gabriel and Uziel were both trying to > reshape it into a Demon, or perhaps it *was* a Demon, part of their > alliance, maybe a Shedim who came close to being a Remnant... Shedim of Saminga, hiding in a dead body to avoid Game? Saminga sends a servant to drag it back to Hell before Game gets to it - the creature's a Renegade, but has some useful information. Game sends a servant, to stop the Angel that's hovering between destroying the Shedim and trying to Redeem him, to stop Saminga's boys, and to recover the Shedim. In the end, after the shaman's pulled a 111 on their exorcise roll and the Shedim was not only booted but soul-killed, Lucy cut his losses and ran... So why was the Bible there, which fit the story almost exactly? Kobal, or one of his, thought it would be funny, and knew enough about every player to fashion a story that would fit their quirks - "Gabriel's" insanity and "Lucifer's" running lie, in particular. It backfired, because it ended up restoring faith to Thomas. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com 21. Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a good hot bath. - How to Be a Cultist ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #364 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.