From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Mon Sep 29 19:04:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07449 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:04:56 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA28359 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:13:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:13:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199709292313.SAA28359@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #366 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, September 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 366 In this digest: Re: IN>Chicago and Lilith and Marc Re: IN> Chez Ennui's Son-o'-God thing Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> What good are tethers? Re: IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> IN source materials Re: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons IN> Question about Shedim Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness Re: IN> Chez Ennui's Son-o'-God thing Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> LARPS - resolving actions IN> Yves, Lucifer, and Michael Re: IN> Question about Shedim IN> Saints and Bodhisattvas Re: IN> Angels on the List Re: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons (Lilith) Re: IN> What good are tethers? IN> Lilith's catch Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> Question about Shedim Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action IN> Multitasking Superiors Re: IN> LARPS - resolving actions Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> Question about Shedim IN> Re:The various goals of major demons (Lilith) Re: IN> IN source materials Re: IN> just a thought IN> Angels on the List Re: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons (Lilith) IN> Profanity & Off Topic stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:04:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN>Chicago and Lilith and Marc In a message dated 97-09-28 17:14:17 EDT, you write: << Chicago is, IMHO, no more or less important to Superiors than any other population center of its size; that is, each has at least the standard low-level hustling and jiving and conniving and politicking and such you have all over. >> Hmm...Thank you to everyone who answered questions about Lilith's goals. It helps a little. What I really need to focus on is what she wants the world to look like, and I think I'm getting a good handle on it. Many refs are inordinately fond of their home town, so I think a little explanation of my view of Chicago is in order here. It has seen better days, but taken as a country, it would be the sixteenth largest economy in the world. It's GDP outranks some fairly big name countries. It out produces a lot of places with much much higher populations. It's big money. That makes it a center of influence. It is also home to some 3 million souls. Closer to 8 if you include it's suburbs. Though I'm not so sure that money or souls are what really matter. Importance probably has more to do with how it relates to human thought. The universities probably matter a lot more than the stock exchange. Even Marc probably cares more about the business schools than the stock exchange... While I do not consider Chicago the number one all important city of the world, I think it is not a peice of real estate to be ignored. It gets a B rating in my scheme of things, where important national capitals tend to get an A rating. Yes, Chicago would be very important to Marc. I can't imagine Jordi caring. Novalis probably has fond (and bitter) memories. Regarding Lilith--- a question along the lines of "know your diabolicals". What would Lilith have to say about Marc? What would Marc have to say about Lilith? - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:51:58 -0500 From: Colin Fredericks Subject: Re: IN> Chez Ennui's Son-o'-God thing >He died on the cross and was entombed in the cave. Exit Jesus #1. All >well and good. But this is where the story gets a little bizarre. > >A demon of Saminga broke into the cave (they do that from time to time), >eliminated the old body (which process, incidentally, left the imprints >on the Shroud of Turin, but muddled the scientific data to make its >precise age indeterminable), and used the Song of Forms to make himself >up like the dead soldier. Here was Jesus #2. This is a really cool story idea. It's actually not that heretical at all when you think of it. Sure, it doesn't perfectly fit Yves' fnord personality, but what da hey. I would, however, like to point you to one obscure reference in the Illuminatus! Trilogy. The part where Malaclypse the Elder (I think it was the Elder) comes back and teaches all the apostles how to play Bingo. :) We love Malaclypse 'round these parts. Unfortunately, I can't tell you what page it's on. You're not cleared for that (and I can't remmeber). fnord Stay Cool; -Sir Colin "If you don't see the Fnord, it can't eat you." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:37:44 -0700 (PDT) From: lugaid@seanet.com Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted On 1997-09-28 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com >> oh, yes! sweet... also fits the "i was in the Church with you >>that day, i know what you saw" bit... >And it fits the fact that he did very little supernatural - he was >saving Essence for the night. one thing for sure, though - he doesn't have any Songs of Healing... either that, or that knife that Uziel used was special somehow... one more question: what about the cave? perhaps a great big Habbalite emotional trap thingie? >> i like that version... works for me... i think that i will add >>these events to my own continuity... >Thank you much. So what do you say - do we go for a final write-up >for Beth's page? sounds good to me... >And since Thomas may be a Soldier (albiet one without a mentor), >Angels are going to come talk to him at some point. If one of them >mentions working for Gabriel... >One slight sticking point - Simon does use the >name Gabriel several times. Maybe he's humoring the poor Habbalah.. probably he just knows that the guy doesn't respond to anything else, these days... and he so wants to Redeem him... Slan agus Beannachtai, Lugaid MacRobert Who gathers the divisions, enthralls the sea, Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:43:54 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action On Sep 26, 1:42pm, Starcrossed wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > > The LARP is going to be written by the same people (probably) > > that are writing the current batch of In Nomine supplements. It should > > be late in '98. OTOH, Relics is probably going to be an early release > > (possibly even this year, but don't hold yer breath). > > Just out of curiosity, how many people on that writing staff have LARP > playing/writing/GMing experience? It's a whole different animal from > tabletop, and I'm wondering what kind of perspective they'll be going into > the project with... At least a couple. If necessary, SJ will pull in other people. He knows _lots_ of people. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:30:03 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted > Nope - The Prophecy, Christopher Walken as Gabriel (I know he was > intended to be *the* Gabriel, but he didn't strike me as Angelic, but > Habbalic). Cool examples of high powered Songs, from Celestial Charm > (reduce Will to make people listen to commands), the ability to make > Mummies, and some Song that knocks people out (Celestial Entropy?). There will be a Song of Sleep in the Relics book. ;) 'Sh!' -- Gabriel, as played by Christopher Walken - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:01:31 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> What good are tethers? > What purpose do tethers serve? I don't see any reason for their > existence. Sure, they make it easier to go to Heaven or Hell, but the > same can be done by assume Celestial form and ascending/descending. They > make it easier to summon the Superior they're consecrated to by adding, > what, a +2? Big deal. Celestials can work off dissonance at a tether, and > that's about all the use I can find for them. I think you underestimate the necessity of easy troop deployment. Going celestial takes more time and isn't as certain as using a tether. Also, you don't have any choice where you end up unless you use the tether. The bonus to call a superior (+3) isn't something to be sneered at, either! If, for example, you needed to put 40 angels in the heart of Milwaukee at a specific time quietly, you'd want to use a Tether. They'd arrive fresher, quieter, and where you needed them. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:34:10 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions On Sep 28, 1:02am, Sam Kington wrote: > Subject: IN> Kyriotate of Jean questions > Hi, > > I'm creating a Kyriotate of Jean for a forthcoming campaign, and wanted > to check up on a few things: > > * Can you use any of the Songs of Form on a host, as opposed to a > vessel? If so, combined with Numinous Corpus:Wings, you could have > invisible flying toasters :-) Yes. > * Similarly, can a Kyriotate of Jean possess a machine and repair it > with the Corporeal song of Healing? Yes. (But I must point out that you don't _have_ to be in a vessel/object to use Song of Healing on it.) > * If you possess a machine that has been switched off, can you turn > yourself on? Similarly, turn a machine off automatically? Yes. > * Can you use the Corporeal song of Motion to move a machine you > possess, even if it could not normally move? Yes. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:45:46 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > > Another idea is referees with the dice (or an electronic equivalent)... > > No-no-no-no!!! Have you ever seen the Star Wars LARP?? It has a marvelous > background, of course, but it uses dice to resolve challenges. Now can you > picture Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, full dressed, in the middle of a > lightsaber fight, crouched and rolling dice?? It *is* ridiculous (I've already > seen that...)... I think we gotta use something less 'disturbing' and > hand signals, as in The Masquerade, sounds just great to me... Remember the electronic dice thingy, Dragonbone? It was almost exactly the same size as a lightsabre handle and handled all the more common rolls. Sounds perfect for SW, eh? - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:53:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN source materials cgray@kirk.microsys.net wrote: > The screwtape Letters is also a very good look at the personality of > Demons. Lewis gives a very dark view of them. As an added benny, "The Screwtape Letters" are also available on tape, read by John Cleese of "Monty Python" fame. It's a great performance. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:00:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons Calabim@aol.com wrote: > But suddenly I started wondering about Lilith. She wheels, she deals, > she scoops up souls in her web of geasa. But favors tend to be a > means to an end...so what would Lilith want? What is she after? After? She's probably after a return to the Golden Age of Machine Politics, which, I think, should still be clearly visible in her rear-view mirror. A whole city run on her methods. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:23:37 -0400 From: Dominic Braun Subject: IN> Question about Shedim This actually came to mind when I saw the Fisuba & Suzanne fight post ( bite his ear, bite his ear ! ). Can Shedim possess multiple vessels. I looked for it in the book when I was thinking about Rizeel, Demon of Slaughterhouse Films, and I could find no mention of multiple vessels, or any rules, or any reference about "see Kyrios...". Admittedly, I scan pretty fast, so can someone help me out with some hard text ( so to speak ). Thanks. Dominic ( Yes, this is my name, so we can add another superior to the list ). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:41:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Needing Light for Darkness Calabim@aol.com wrote: > I have always had a problem with the whole "you have to have evil to > have good" concept. It's a lot like saying that until something > breaks nothing can be whole. I think this is a very good analogy -- in fact, more than an analogy. Evil is a good thing broken. Selfishness is self-esteem swollen too large, etc. St. Augustine was the one who first defined evil as the lack of good, and I think this makes people think of evil in terms of a hole or a shadow. But try thinking of it as a wound. Turning to celestials, there can be ghastly symmetries between them, based on that. Both surgeons and blade-slingers use blades, but one uses scalples, the other knives. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:48:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Chez Ennui's Son-o'-God thing Colin Fredericks wrote: > This is a really cool story idea. It's actually not that heretical > at all when you think of it. Um... not that heretical in relation to what? 'Cause as a piece of Christian theology, it's pretty heretical. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:28:29 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Remember the electronic dice thingy, Dragonbone? It was > almost exactly the same size as a lightsabre handle and handled > all the more common rolls. Sounds perfect for SW, eh? Would make a good klaive handle for WWLive [Laws of the Wild]; or it would be a good flaming sword for a LARP Celestial. tom t. "what lives here, and what's stray, tell me please, what's signal and what's noise" - --Emma Bull ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:32:39 +0500 From: Daiv Barr Subject: Re: IN> LARPS - resolving actions PERRY LLOYD wrote: > > I've only been in one LARP to date; we used paper-rock-scissors to resolve > actions, usually best two outta three. Maybe this is standard for LARPs, > I don't know where it comes from. :) > > -Perry > > > > Perry M. Lloyd > Angel of Forgetfulness, Demon of Confabulation > > "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, > and it grieved his heart." > - Genesis 6:6 > .- Rock scissors paper (also known as ro shim bo) is, in fact the way that demons and angels hav always setled their drect disputes. everything form mortal combat to who picks up the check after coffee is resolved in a best two out of three... coffee, yeah. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:47:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> Yves, Lucifer, and Michael >> isn't Lucifer still the first Created Angel in IN? let me check... >> hmmm... "legend has it" that Yves was first... well, not in my world - >> Lucifer has to be the first, it's the fear of any firstborn, that s/he >> will be replaced in his/her parents' eyes when more come along... that >> is his motive for starting the Rebellion... >Works better anyway - I was just taking the "legend has it" as the >cannon answer to "who came first", subconsiously. Actually, the IN canon order seems to be Yves, Michael, Lucifer. Note in Michael's description: "first created being after the ineffable Yves," or something like that. I don't like that myself, and prefer the more traditional approach of putting Lucifer before Michael. However, Yves doesn't bother me as much, 'cause he's not so much really an angel. (Notice his description -- how he doesn't really fit any choir.) He's just this old guy who was already there when Lucifer and Michael first came to consciousness, and he's probably the one who explained God and the Symphony to them. I've always figured that Yves is some kind of aspect of God, filtering down into the lower heavens in a form that angels can comprehend. Notice that *he* gave the order to Gabriel to contact Muhammad, and that even Dominic doesn't oppose him directly (though Dom does grumble mightily). In that light, it's rather ironic that Michael has started to feel some hostility toward Yves; perhaps he, and not Gabriel, will actually be the one responsible for the Second Fall. Given that the Trinity does seem to exist in IN (the canon answer to "Do you really mean to refer to the Trinity and the Holy Spirit in the discussion of 111 intervention rolls" was something like "Yup, we do," with no further explanation), the Yves-as-God theory can be fitted in with the recently discussed Eli-as-God theory pretty easily. Yves is the lower-heaven manifestation of the Father, Eli of the Son. Candidates for the Holy Spirit are more numerous: Blandine, Janus, and Gabriel all spring to mind for various reasons. Blandine works with the minds of humanity and inspires Hope, activities traditionally attributed to the good old Ghost. The Holy Spirit is described as both Wind and Fire, giving credence to the other two candidates as well. Janus doesn't hold up as well on closer analysis, though, particularly given the whole theft thing and his tie to Valefor. After reading Gabriel's description in The Marches, which mentions that at least part of her madness is due to her role as the Divine Flame of inspiration (she is essentially mainlining the Mind of God much of the time), I tend to favor her for this role. This doesn't mean that the Archangels in question aren't individuals, by the way. The Amber-style "shadow" theory recently applied to the ethereals can come into play here; the glory of the Undivided Trinity, filtered down into the lowest heaven, resolves itself into three distinct beings. Heck, that phenomenon could even be the reason behind the whole "One God in Three Persons" concept. It's a little unorthodox, but what else in IN isn't? Or perhaps the three Archangels are individual creations like the other angels, but their Words and functions link them more tightly into the Symphony than the rest, and oblige them to act occasionally as "mouthpieces" for the Most High. Just a theory which will probably be discredited by the canon material...but I rather like it. On a slightly different topic, there's another good reason for Lucifer to have been created before Michael. The revelation (again, in The Marches) that Uriel was the first of the Malakim makes it logical that each of the other "firsts" of their choirs should have been somehow representative of their choir's resonance. Actually, that makes sense anyway, but the facts about Uriel support it. Perhaps the legendary "seven archangels" of lore are a reference to the first-born of the seven choirs (or their replacements upon Falling, as when Michael replaced Lucifer as head Seraph). So who would those angels be? Here are my suggestions. Seraph: Lucifer (Light, which metaphorically includes Truth) Cherub: Zadkiel (Protection, to be introduced in H&H) Ofanite: Gabriel (Fire, the messenger) Elohite: ??? Malakite: Uriel (Purity, confirmed) Kyriotate: ??? (perhaps the unFallen form of Legion) Mercurian: Raphael? Eli? (Raphael needs to be one of the Big Seven, and his portrayal in the Book of Tobit suggests he's either a Cherub or Mercurian. Indeed, I think the title "Friend of Man" was applied to him in the Middle Ages. But his Word in IN was Knowledge, and we don't know what choir he was.) As for the Fallen: Balseraph: Lucifer, of course. Djinn: ??? (Asmodeus?) Calabite: Almost certainly Belial (note his Word and its associations) Habbalite: ??? Lilim: Well, Lilith's not really a Lilim, but she'd be the equivalent here. Shedim: My vote's for Legion, slayer of Raphael. He's noted as Prince of Corruption (the Shedite function), and he alone figured out how to regain his multiplicity without being Redeemed Impudite: ??? (Andre?) The angelic list gives us a group of seven that includes the Big Four (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel, with Michael replacing Lucifer in the Seraph slot). The other positions may have rotated more often, since lists of the "seven archangels" always seem to differ with respect to the other three. Currently, the Seven (I envision them sitting at the head of the Seraphim Council) would be: Seraph: Michael Cherub: Zadkiel Ofanite: Gabriel (voting through her aide, whose name I don't recall) Elohite: Still ??? Who besides Jean is an Elohite? Malakite: Laurence (replacing Uriel, much to Khalid's annoyance) Kyriotate: Jordi? (He does seem the most Kyrio of Kyrios, and may be the First, as well) Mercurian: Eli (absent, but probably not replaced -- much to *Dominic's* annoyance) I also tend to envision an empty chair at the very head of the Council table. Most new saints (small "s") assume it represents God, but the Archangels will tell you (gravely) that it's Lucifer's place, set aside for him in hope of his repentance and restoration. But then, perhaps my Archangels are more sentimental than most. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:11:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Hobbes Subject: Re: IN> Question about Shedim According to Dominic Braun: > Dominic ( Yes, this is my name, so we can add another superior > to the list ). I feel left out! While Daniel was kinda cool biblically - he's no Archangel. I think I'll change my name to Asmodeus just for fun. Or maybe I'll introduce myself from now on as "Haaghenti Ozdowski" - it kinda goes... Vapula??? Dan Ozdowski - has the itching to watch _The Prophecy_ again....hmmmm wonder why? - -- Don't blame me, I voted for Sgarlata. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:57:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> Saints and Bodhisattvas Here's a nitpicky question I've had since the release of Night Music. Perhaps the esteemed Netrep or the most wise Line Editor can answer it for me. Why is the usage of "Saint" and "Bodhisattva" almost exactly reversed from the real-world usage? As I understand it, Bodhisattva (in some branches of Buddhism) are those who have earned Nirvana, but choose to remain on the Wheel of Reincarnation in order to help others achieve Enlightenment. On the other hand, Saints (in some branches of Christianity) are the souls in Heaven, particularly those who are active in interceding for those still on Earth. In IN, Bodhisattva are those who assist the angels in fighting the War from Heaven, and Saints are the subset of Bodhisattva who choose to be reborn on Earth to continue the fight. Now, I know the IN usage of the terms (especially the first one) isn't going to be fit completely with its real-world origin -- but if you're gonna use those particular terms, why *reverse* their meanings? It's possible that I'm the one who's mistaken here, especially about the description of Bodhisattva. But this is what I've read, and the IN usage therefore seems strange to me. Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:33:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Angels on the List On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org wrote: > Previously, from the desktop of in_nomine-digest... > > >> Oops! It *is* a coincidence!! My real name is Andre and... wait a > >> minute... 'most dread Prince Andre'...hmmm...I *love* it...! :-) > >> > >> Prince Andre > > >How many Superiors do we have on list, anyway? I've seen two Davids, >Andre, and of course Beth. Gabriel, Michael, Marc, Laurence, and >Jean are possible, though I don't remember any off the top of my >head. DPs don't seem to be as possible... > Well, I'm not an AA or a DP, but I am a Word-bound: Tomas the Angel of Catchy Tunes, from Night Music. And if you knew me, you would agree that Word fits my personality very well... And never mind the fact that you subtract a point or two of Charisma, throw glasses on him, make him grow a moustache, and make him gain about 75 lbs, he would look remarkably like me. (I know that sentence didn't make much sense... but it has to be better than Dave Wood's "That That David" explanation :) ). Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:42:52 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons (Lilith) >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:49:33 -0500 >From: tom timberlake > >Calabim@aol.com wrote: > > >> So flitting back to Lilith...I think I kind of like your "Dave and Buster's" >> theory. Perhaps Chicago is simply a market to do business in, like any other. >> But that still raises the "But what does she want" question. >> >> Lilith geas' mortals...but does she claim souls after death? I would think >> she would have to...to keep any power base. But then what does she do with >> them? >> >I know this is a straight steal from Wraith the Oblivion, but what do >you think those nifty Geas tokens, either pokerchips or INWO cards, are >made of, exactly? > >tom t., mandarin's butterfly to James the Stone Malak > Ahh!!!! No! No! No Wraith! No Wraith!!!! BAD!!!! BAD!!!!! Wraith BAD! Wraith BAD!!!!! Sorry. Is it just me or is the first character you make in Wraith always end up being yourself? - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "Aside from the pollution and bad hair styles, Jersey's _so_ cool." Sam Bean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:50:44 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> What good are tethers? What good are Tethers??> Tether Ball, of course!!! See, you attach the Cherub head to this rope, then you.... Ok, I'll go stand in the corner, now. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "Aside from the pollution and bad hair styles, Jersey's _so_ cool." Sam Bean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:59:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Lilith's catch The question came up, What does Lilith do with the souls she reaps, since she doesn't have a principality. The suggestion was made that she uses them as raw material for making Lilim. She might do that either by transforming a soul by her own trade-secret methods, or by breaking souls down into component forces and building Lilim from them. Here's another thing she might do with her catch of souls: Remember that the allocation of souls was worked out at the beginning by Lucifer, in a way described as totally unfair but accepted by the princes because they figure they were all screwed equally. So the princes are presumably all hungry for more souls, or for more of the right kind of souls, which they don't feel they are getting enough of. Lilith may have her minions sort souls into suitable batches and then sell them off to the other demon-princes. In return for what? Well, raw masses of Essence would be simplest, and no doubt are always welcome, but I'm sure Lilith can be MUCH more inventive than that. Tethers, unholy artifacts, *holy* artifacts, plain old mortal monies and properties (useful in their way), the loan or sale of particular servitors, special prisoners, and, of course, services. Or (silly demon) you could just "owe her a favor"... Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:54:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> just a thought At 8:08 PM +0000 9/26/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> > And sometimes they're the ^%$#^% angels in the Marches who give me >> > some great idea *WAAAAAY* too early in the morning and I can't >> > get back to sleep till I've written it down. >> >> Funny...I get those from Andrealphus... > >It's a good thing I'm lazy, or I'd work on Nifnial, Lilim of Dirty >Dreams... Oooooo! (Why not an Impudite, though?) >Which brings me to a question - can a Need satisfied in the Marches >be translated into a Corporeal world Geas? And does the fact that it >is a dream change levels any? If the need is really satisfied, then the location matters not to level or whether or not it's worth a Geas. If a need is only satisfied in the dream, but is still present upon waking, then no Geas is laid. For instance, if someone needs five hundred dollars for his rent, and you give it to him in the dream, the need is not really met. If he wants a really good sexual experience, well...maybe. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:54:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Question about Shedim Hobbes (aka Dan Ozdowski) wrote: > I feel left out! While Daniel was kinda cool biblically - he's > no Archangel. If it makes you feel any better, I once GMed a game featuring an angel named Daniel. He protected the medieval city of York and commisioned the PCs to hunt down an out-of-control diabolical artifact. This was years ago, before IN was invented -- possibly before the French originals. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:04:31 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action tom timberlake wrote: > John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > Remember the electronic dice thingy, Dragonbone? > Would make a good klaive handle for WWLive [Laws of the Wild]; or it > would be a good flaming sword for a LARP Celestial. Wow, it sounds great, but I guess it's never made its way down here... I have never seen it. :-( Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:47:42 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> Multitasking Superiors This debate about AA and DP's interests in Chicago has set my mind in motion about something, specially after I read this: "For example, in my game Andre maintains a minimal Chicago presence, but right now he's really into the california scene." How do you people handle the attention focus of Superiors? I know, God is omniscient, but are Superiors?? Can Mighty Prince Andre pay attention to Chicago *and* California at the same time, with the same degree of attention? Can Laurence perceive his surroundings in Heaven and follow a battle in Bosnia at the same time?? Can any Superior chat with a servant in Alaska *and* make an apparition to a soldier in the Marches??? Or, are Superiors multitasking? Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:01:22 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> LARPS - resolving actions PERRY LLOYD wrote: > I've only been in one LARP to date; we used paper-rock-scissors to resolve > actions, usually best two outta three. Maybe this is standard for LARPs, > I don't know where it comes from. :) Ro-shim-bo (it's jock-em-po in Brasil) came with the first edition of The Masquerade, the LARP game of Vampire. I don't know if it was the first LARP game ever (it was released in '93), but since then I've seen a couple of others and the jock-em-po system has been informally adopted by us for every one of them. I think it *is* rather standard worldwide, but I really don't know out there how people are doing... And we don't use best two out of three, we use simple test - and a retest, if your attributes are *much* better than your opponent's (at least doubled. Ex: In a combat, if you have DX 14 and he has DX 6, even losing the first test, you can recall another one). It has worked so far... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:57:53 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted > >And it fits the fact that he did very little supernatural - he was > >saving Essence for the night. > > one thing for sure, though - he doesn't have any Songs of Healing... > either that, or that knife that Uziel used was special somehow... True. Maybe he was low on Essence, and was gambling his vessel for the chance to steal and transfer the Shedim. > one more question: what about the cave? perhaps a great big Habbalite > emotional trap thingie? I don't know - a vision of Hell? The servator of Fear that had originally attacked Simon, all those years ago, making one last bid for Thomas' sanity? > >And since Thomas may be a Soldier (albiet one without a mentor), > >Angels are going to come talk to him at some point. If one of them > >mentions working for Gabriel... > > Isn't Kobal nice? > >One slight sticking point - Simon does use the > >name Gabriel several times. Maybe he's humoring the poor Habbalah.. > > probably he just knows that the guy doesn't respond to anything else, > these days... and he so wants to Redeem him... Something like that... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com 21. Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a good hot bath. - How to Be a Cultist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:57:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about Shedim At 7:23 PM -0400 9/28/97, Dominic Braun wrote: >This actually came to mind when I saw the Fisuba & Suzanne fight >post ( bite his ear, bite his ear ! ). Can Shedim possess >multiple vessels. No. p. 151, first paragraph under Resonance. "But the fallen Shedim don't have -- or cannot bear -- the selflessness that comes of controlling multiple hosts at the same time." >Dominic ( Yes, this is my name, so we can add another superior > to the list ). Uh-oh. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:24:43 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons (Lilith) > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:49:33 -0500 From: tom timberlake I know this is a straight steal from Wraith the Oblivion, but what do you think those nifty Geas tokens, either pokerchips or INWO cards, are made of, exactly?< Eve's bones. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 18:30 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN source materials > Finally, there is an excellent series fo books by Holly Isle, I think that's Lisle, not Isle.... >showing how the best plans of Hell can often be short-circuited by >the oddest acts of good will. Her demons, like Lewis's, are sadistic >and utterly evil. Mostly. But not entirely, which is part of the point of the series. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 18:28 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> just a thought >>I tend to think of Bill Gates as a Soldier of Vapula who's gotten out of >>control. Or maybe not... Vapula *is* a Habbalite. > >On the other hand, following the logic of the Habbalah, who really *do* >believe that they are helping humanity, does Bill Gates really believe that >he's _helping_ humanity? I didn't say *Gates* was a Habbalite, just that Vapula is. Habbalah are into testing people to destruction, using whatever tools come their way. This is their mandate from God, to eliminate the weak. Gates is a good tool for that.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:24:38 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Angels on the List >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 12:45:20 PDT From: "Chris Jackson" Well, my name is Christopher, so . . . Wait a minute! I don't even *have* children! Christopher B. Jackson (Not really the Archangel of Children, but I was one once. A child, I mean, not an Archangel.)< Thats all right he doesn't have any children of his own except his ofanim, and maybe his malakim and.... Adam Canning ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:34:29 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Re:The various goals of major demons (Lilith) > Sorry. Is it just me or is the first character you make in Wraith > always end up being yourself? Nah - I just killed one of my mundane characters (he was from a GURPS game that never happened...). Course, the Wraith game never happened, either, but... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com 21. Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a good hot bath. - How to Be a Cultist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:10:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Profanity & Off Topic stuff At 6:38 PM -0700 9/26/97, Chris Eng wrote: >> From: David Edelstein >> >> Although this list is unmoderated, I think we could do without the >> gratuitous profanity. > >Now, unless you have a radically different dictionary from mine, yours >should contain an entry something along the lines of, "Gratuitous: >unnecessary or unwarranted; unjustified." Calmly, all, calmly. Yes, there are instances where profanity is acceptable, and yes, maybe even on this list. However, trying to keep it clean is also a good thing. (Haven't read the piece yet, will when I get past some time-consuming Line Editing duties and can update the INC.) [Yes, I see that's handled. Is-good. Reinforcing the point for everyone, now.] One can always try to use words that are still strong, but not technically one of the "seven dirty words." One can often use insults like "scum" or the like. One can also **** or otherwise mangle the insult, which, surprisingly, *does* make a difference to some readers. (Myself included. I'd rather see a tasteful * in print.) (And a criticism of using the profanity is *not* a criticism of the themes explored in the work. Spousal abuse is quite horrible, and often subtle psychological nastiness as well. (*) We don't need to get into any flames about *THAT* on the _In Nomine_ list. FROM ANYONE. It's off-topic.) (* My "own" writeup includes a comment about being sired by a Balseraph. Draw your own conclusions.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #366 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.