From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jan 2 01:26:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA21439 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:26:02 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id BAA03361 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:21:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:21:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199801020721.BAA03361@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #542 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, January 2 1998 Volume 01 : Number 542 In this digest: Re: Re: IN> The Company in IN + question :) Re: IN> Stopping Celestials with Technology Re: IN> [STORY] "Your services will no longer be required." IN> Live Action In Nomine RE: IN> The Company in IN IN> Happy New Year's IN> Hearts IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #538 IN> Re: Kyrios of Jordi and their 22 cats IN> Short Goodbye... Re: IN> [STORY] "Your services will no longer be required." IN> Jewish IN Re: IN> Jewish IN IN> Familiars and possetion Re: IN> Grigori ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:14:49 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: Re: IN> The Company in IN + question :) >Well, for Christmas I bought myself a copy of GURPS Black Ops. I really >enjoyed it, and highly recommend it. > >1) The Grays - are they demonic? Confused angels? Human? Or actually >alien? I was thinking that they might be servants of Vapula, modified by >some demonic plastic surgery or something... > > >Well, since you want to bastardize Black Ops and IN anyway, why not go a >step further and get All the Answers! Run, do not Walk, and get Delta >Green from Pagan Publishing. It's a fantastic and BIG Call of Cthulu >supplement, is already in its second printing, and is already difficult to >find. You will get all the neccessary motivations that you need for the >Greys. yay! cool to hear that other people are on the same wavelength as me. :) i got black ops for xmas along with the APG and H&H books for IN. my main reason for getting black ops was coz of a "Conspiracy" live roleplay game called LOOM that me and a friend have been running on and off for about half a year. its basically inspired by illuminati/x-files/dark skies/invisibles/nephallim/conspiracy X with a whole pile of other stuff chucked in. i bought black ops to use as a basis for MJ12 in the LOOMiverse, but i like the idea of also having a bunch of psycho-gun-nut-MIBs chasing celestials around. would they recognise any difference between angels and demons? with the "shoot first, ask later" policy of Combat i doubt it. i'm now hooked on IN anyway, over the last few months i've made more sub- plots, npcs and adventure hooks than i'll ever have a chance to use in my games! i even convinced my friend ady to let me introduce angels to our LOOM games, though in a limited form (npcs only, not many people realise what they are, and they're not *proper* angels; basically grigori-style ones called enochians who are cursed to walk the earth forever). they mainly work through the ultra-secret society the Grail (blatantly nicked from Preacher!), a conspiracy within a conspiracy. most of the characters don't even know that magic exists, they're too busy chasing greys around. of course the greys aren't really aliens, but demonic constructs (another blatant blag here, this time from delta green). this has translated over somewhat to my IN campaign, with a real conspiracy feel in the celestial "cold war". the group is pretty disparate (they picked fairly opposing superiors, most are angels but one's a free lilim, the ofanite picked the paranoia discord!), but are held together by mutual trust in the face of npcs' hidden motives. aaaanyway, what i was wondering about was... it's made pretty clear that humans can use ONLY corporeal songs (except for dream soldiers, who have access to ethereal ones). though this makes a certain sense to me, some of the celestial songs seem to have humans in mind. in particular the celestial song of projection seems to be designed largely to allow non-celestials access to higher realms. it even mentions in the description that "humans, outcasts and renegades must be at a tether to perform this version of the song". the in-game reason given for humans being unable to cast non-corporeal songs is that they find it too confusing. in my campaign i've said that humans can learn celestial songs, but at triple the cost (similar to sorcery skills) due to the deep study and training needed. plus few celestials are willing to teach mortals songs of this type. liam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:24:30 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Stopping Celestials with Technology David wrote: : : "Yes, my message: that the United States Government is establishing a : final solution to the problem of Celestial interference on our territory, : that we have a means of protecting ourselves, and that we are in the : process of instituting a zero tolerance policy." You know, what this reminds me of is good old fashioned goetic magic, with its aim of controlling demons and angels with complex rituals and spells. This is just the same thing, dressed up with mathematics and blinkenlights. Two things come to mind, after making this observation. The less helpful one is that "classically" anti-celestial tech is impossible, since spiritual laws supersede physical laws in much the same way that physical laws supersede human laws. Only faith in God can stop a demonic possession; there are no anti-Shedim pills, not even in principle. But that's not really all that helpful, so let's assume it's possible and see what theology has to say. Now we get the observation that the people who have instituted this policy are damned, since they have set their wills in opposition to God's.[*] Lucifer is probably laughing his little red butt off at poor Trochas, who has fallen into Hell's clutches in his zeal to defeat it. Your story does do a very good job of showing how a sorcerer can lose his soul in the hereafter through an excessive focus on this world, in a way a modern reader can understand. Send it to Beth for the INC, please. [*] I am, of course, assuming here that the angels are obeying God's commands. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:36:01 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> [STORY] "Your services will no longer be required." That story rocked, thanks.. jahon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:51:48 -0500 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: IN> Live Action In Nomine Hello, My name is Brian Ward, and I'm new to the list. However, I have some interesting news to bring to the table: my live action role-playing group will be running a live action version of In Nomine at Dreamation 1998 in New Jersey. I will post more in a day or two, such as the address for my website, more info on the convention, etc. Feel free to e-mail me personally if you have any questions or comments. Do what thou wilt, but be cool... Brian Ward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 00:07:05 -0500 From: "Ehrbar" Subject: RE: IN> The Company in IN >From: "Perry M. Lloyd" >>2) Is there anyway for a human to soul-kill a celestial via technology? > >Can a celestial be soul-killed by technology? Ummm... well... >Conservative answer: No. >Liberal answer: Yes. > >I say.... Maybe. "144,000 Altar candles?" "Check." "1,000 liters holy water?" "Check." "Two gross palm leaves?" "Affirm." "Affirm?" "Er, check." "1 metric ton St. Christopher medals, bronze?" "Check." "30 kilograms ammonium nitrate?" "Check." "OK. Let's see Vapula counter *this* one." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 01:03:50 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: IN> Happy New Year's Happy New Year to everyone, I hope you had more to do than to sit here and type "Happy New Year" to this list. Jahon the lifeless ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 01:34:00 -0500 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: IN> Hearts Ok, here's a question: it says that an angel's Heart can't leave Heaven. But it says that Eli's servitors hide their Hearts where they can. There is even a reference in Revelations II to one of Eli's servitors having her Heart with here on Earth, and one of the plot suggestions is that angels have to help one of Eli's servitors keep her Heart hidden. So which is the case: can a Heart leave Heaven, or not? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:05:07 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #538 >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:58:25 -0600 >From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) >>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:15:08 -0500 >>From: Nana Yaw Ofori > >> But that's probably because of the conniptions I'd have with a 5 >>CF, Strength 8 Kyriotate of Jordi. He can already possess 22 cats >>simultaneously, every one of them capable of battering down doors or >>clawing their way through steel. Get several together and they can flip >>cars. > >> Kyrios of Jordi can be _mean._ > >Hey...I mainly serve Eli....and boy can THAT attunement be abused. :) I love >my character... Oh, heck yeah. The only thing limiting the Celestial Song of Form is the essence expenditure, and Eli lets that go. Turn all those cats into hundred-foot-tall Elvis clones, and march on Washington! (Well, if you're willing to take the Disturbance.) At least it doesn't make them any stronger... > >Oh, and don't forget the leaping of tall buildings... No. I refuse to allow you to leap tall buildings. Cats aren't that aerodynamic. Small ones, maybe, but not tall ones. You can try running up the walls, but no guarantee on that. Long drop once you lose traction... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:06:32 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Kyrios of Jordi and their 22 cats > >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:47:27 +0000 >From: Sam Kington >[snip] >> the conniptions I'd have with a 5 >> CF, Strength 8 Kyriotate of Jordi. He can already possess 22 cats >> simultaneously, > >But OTOH this is a pretty unbalanced character you have here, in many >respects. For a 9-force angel, there are only four forces left for >Ethereal and Celestial; assuming just one Ethereal Force (now that's one >dumb, MTV-attention-span bunch of cats), we've got just three Celestial >Forces left to play with. To get anything like a sensible Will, to avoid >the Kyrio bouncing off cats all day, say a Will of 8, we get a >Perception of 4, which is pretty bad for an angel. One of the >traditional advantages of possessing/controlling a large number of >animals is that you can fan them out and hear everything that's going >on; this guy won't. It's pretty good for a human (Assuming 2-2-1) The other mitigating circumstance is that the character is practically blind for an Angel, and will have an incredible amount of trouble getting its tendrils on more than six or so cats. > >This is presuming, of course, that the angel is just a combat monster - >tricky in itself, for a Kyrio. Unless you've got a *lot* of Essence, >those 22 cats will need a lot of healing: if you rush them all in at the >target, as soon as any cat gets at all hurt you've got one Dissonance. I could have sworn the Dissonance kicks in when one leaves the host, and no Kyrio in his right mind will leave a host damaged if it's his choice. In which case, with the initial calculation of 40 body, means that you've got a very mad Kyrio, in 22 cats, several of which are wounded, and all of which are _still_ coming after you. And he's not going to be Outcasted until he has to leave one of those Hosts. If he's smart, he's going to have the cats that he's got the full six days on be the ones leading the charge, as he'll have the most time to fix the damage. >Get three cats hurt, and you've already got a fair whack, and a fair >chance of tripping; get four or five hurt at more or less the same time, >and we have an Outcast. And all you need to do is mow down the horde of >cats with automatic weapon fire, or toss a grenade in the middle. > So he uses one at a time, or has them all surge in from all directions. With the standard caculation, that's still 40 hits per cat. Vicious. So there stand 20 cats, each with the damage capacity of a pickup, and able to deal out vicious damage. And not everybody's carrying around grenades and machine guns. Usually, a person who is won't be able to draw before the twenty cats come screaming in at fifty mph, and rip him several new ones. Maybe he'll be able to pick off one, or two cats, but at 40 Body, that definately won't kill one. And then they leap on him, bite that gun out of his hand, and overbear him to the ground. At which point, if he can't go celestial, and doesn't know any songs that apply, he's in deep, deep trouble. The only thing going for the victim is the -1 Prtection on cat hosts, and the -3 power they get to their attacks. On the flip side, if he'd used small dogs, they get Power -1 (As dangerous than a solid kick?), or Gods forbid, 15 Rottweilers (Power +2) And so long as the victim doesn't have any area-effect weapons, swarms are much, much worse. \|=) Anyway, my point is, while getting into a combat isn't prudent behavior for any Kyriotate, I choose to make it far less prudent behavior. Lowering the Body hits makes it more likely that a host will die, rather than just be wounded. For the average Kyrio, my method would be the difference between Body 24 and Body 6. As a result, a Kyriotate can take dissonance in an average combat, rather than days later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 10:02:34 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Short Goodbye... Over the next week I'm going to be changing accounts and getting a new computer and stuff like that, so I probably won't be posting to the list during this time. If you need to shower me with praise, send mail to neelk@alum.mit.edu, and I'll get the message eventually. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:56:45 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> [STORY] "Your services will no longer be required." - ---------- > From: David Wood > To: In Nomine > Subject: IN> [STORY] "Your services will no longer be required." > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 6:02 PM > > Quoth "" on Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:18:03 > -0500... > >At 11:43 -0500 12/30/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > >>Can a celestial be soul-killed by technology? Ummm... well... > >>Conservative answer: No. > > >Which would lead to the "Well, at least we put 'em in Trauma" solution, > >unless the bad guys are Malakim...uh, oh. > > >"We killed him! Ugh, he's back!" BLAM BLAM BLAM "We killed him! Ugh, > >he's back!" BLAM BLAM BLAM > > >>Liberal answer: Yes. > > >Which means celestials would have to tread that much more softly when on > >Earth, and not just scoff at that guy with a .38, if he's actually got > >vessel-piercing ammunition. (Or holy/unholy bullets). > > (Oh, but the questions *that* could raise for the long haul... I know > nothing about GURPS Black Ops, but the 'Company' sounds almost like > Stephen King's 'Shop,' and if that's the case, here's a little episode to > ponder:) > [snip] > (Pleasant dreams, kiddies...) > Great! Fantastic! And a great adventure seed, too! ;:; ) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 18:20:37 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Jewish IN I think I could write a version like this, but I don't know how playable it would be. The idea of the fall and the war between heaven and hell are not really Jewish in origin so.. they'd have to go ;-)And demons are more like the fae in medieval folklore. jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:19:00 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Jewish IN - ---------- > From: Jo Hart > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> Jewish IN > Date: Thursday, January 01, 1998 1:20 PM > > I think I could write a version like this, but I don't know how playable it > would be. The idea of the fall and the war between heaven and hell are not > really Jewish in origin so.. they'd have to go ;-)And demons are more like > the fae in medieval folklore. > I thought that the Qlippothic entities from Kabbalistic lore would fill in nicely for the demons. Not exactly traditional Jewish, I know... YMMV > > jo Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:15:09 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> Familiars and possetion This question came up on WEBRPG, and I thought yo all may be able to shine some light on it. A few ideas: If a Familiar has the Bound Discord, could another Celestial Possess that Familiar? Would you use the Level of Bound as a bonus to the Familiar's Willpower to avoid being Possessed? What would happen to a Bound Celestial that was somehow forced out of their "binding?" Any thoughts on this? Has anyone seen anything official on these points? How would you, as a GM, handle this situation? Thanks, O. ******************************************************************************** Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 02:13:08 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Grigori testing. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #542 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.