From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jan 7 16:37:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06885 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:37:18 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA15139 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:27:10 -0600 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:27:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199801072227.QAA15139@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #554 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 554 In this digest: Re: IN> Extinction Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles (long, long, long) Re: IN> Headaches IN> Movie Trailer: Partners Re: IN> A resonance question Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Destiny or bust! Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: Anime off-topic (Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2) Re: IN> Seed: You Go Yahweh, I'll Go My Way IN> Seraphim and Roles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:23:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Extinction At 4:38 PM -0500 1/6/98, LAstley wrote: >>Certainly evolution occurs. >>Even though In Nomine is based on religious themes, nowhere does it >>state that religious texts are conculsively correct. In fact, just >>the opposite. There's all sorts of little notes saying 'don't take me >>seriously' throughout the book. >>Evolution and natural selection are not theories, they are phenomenon. >>They can easily be reproduced in any laboratory situation. It's not >>a question of does it happen, it's a question of DID that happen, and >>in such a way as to refute the biblical story of creation. > >yeah, sure, i know all this. out of game, i'm an atheist and so believe in >evolution. but in the IN universe science is just one aspect of a magical, >physics-defying symphony. plus its been stated that god did create the human >race (ie it didn't evolve). so i was just wondering whether evolution really >had any effect in the IN world, or if its just down to god's plan (or maybe >evolution is part of god's plan) The History of the Angels (in the APG) implied, to me, that evolution sort of happened with the occasional celestial nudge here and there. And humans evolved with everything else (so are no more or less "created" than other animals; just listed to Jordi). Adam and Lilith and Eve were created, but for a purpose *other* than populating the Earth with humans... [Still dealing with non-urgent email from the 400 messages from vacation] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:44:42 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles (long, long, long) At 5:15 PM -0500 1/6/98, David Edelstein wrote: > >Sure. The Seraph can write "Fred" on a name tag and let others assume. On >the other hand, if a human walks up to him and asks "Is your name Fred?" >the Seraph can't say "Yes." > >(He could give the human a look of utter scorn, and say in a voice dripping >with sarcasm, "Did I misspell it or something?" Sarcasm can be a Seraph's >best friend. ) (But look for those nametags that have the "Hello, My Name Is" part carefully ripped off...) O;> At 9:53 AM -0500 1/6/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >David Edelstein wrote: > >> The APG brings up this very point. [...] and Seraphim don't HAVE to >> be anal-retentive stick-up-their-butts literalists...but they DO >> have to be excrutiatingly honest to a degree that would be difficult >> if not impossible for humans (and other angels). > >Okay, this plus the remark in another post to a bell-curve distribution >makes this workable. But if I were an AA, I'd send to Earth only >those seraphim who are on the more flexible side, or only send them >out on the street with a Mercurian for a keeper. Otherwise this >excruciating honesty is going to blow any attempt at cover. Any. >In fact, if a seraph can bring itself to take a human-looking vessel >and so DECEIVE every casual onlooker into believing it's human, it must >surely have enough flexibility to write "Fred" on a name tag instead >of "Pharadiel, Holy Seraph and Servant of the Most High God, Accept >No Substitutes, Servitors of Judgement Take Notice, Demons Dial >555-0111 for an Easy Target." New Seraphim do much better with keepers. (Even the Seraph in the vignette obviously was paired with another angel...) Yes, a Seraph has to very carefully reassure themselves that any forms requesting a name are looking for a Role-name. (And it should be noted that Seraphim will *never*, of their own choice, use a name that is not somehow linked to their True Name.) Their superiors and Archangels have to instruct them carefully about this sort of thing, though it's usually enough to point out that writing celestial characters (if even possible in the campaign-world) will bother humans. (You'll also note that Seraphim have a vessel preference -- some of them may consider that this is a form of being truthful. A few of them are *so* sterotyped that you can look at them and go: "A Seraph!" I suspect that Judgment and Sword Seraphim are the worst about this, personally.) [And then there's the Gray Lilim and the Seraph, discussing how to make frozen pizza. "Don't you just put it in?" "I think you need a pan or something, or it will melt all over the oven. Got any pans?" "No. Why don't they *say* it needs a pan?" "I don't know." Human kid: "Uh, why don't we order our for pizza delievery?" Celestials: "Good idea!" Celestials can be so clueless, even ones who've been around humans a lot.] At 2:02 PM -0500 1/6/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Jason Corley wrote: > >> On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David Edelstein wrote: >> >> > >>>Can a seraph consider the possibility of having more than one "name"? >> > Lots of humans have several.<<< >> > >> > Only the Seraph's true, angelic name is his *real* name, so all of the >> > others would require Seraphic evasions as described previously. Or a very, very careful explanation of the concept of "Those words don't mean what they sound like" *could* work (depending on GM). If you can convince a Seraph (use Yves' Divine Logic) that most instances of "What's your name?" actually mean "What should I call you?", then the Seraph is free and clear. Until he meets someone who actually means "What's your true name?"... I could see that. >> Waiddaminute. A Seraph's true angelic name is his -identity-. But his >> Role's name is just as much "his" as his angelic name. So saying "What's >> your name?" "Rick Roleman." is perfectly okay. And I don't consider Roles >> deceptions at all, in that they don't 'grate on the trueness of the >> Symphony' like lies do. [...] > Follow that with the logic that if an angel, >over time, maintains a dozen or so roles during his 'life', then it would >be REALLY stupid to (A) make *every one* of those roles have to be >directly drawn from the angel's real name, Oh, not really -- there are a *lot* of variations in names! (Believe me on this -- for generating names for NPCs in a Space game, I collected several thousand names and put them in a 600K Excel file.) As the APG says, "Adoration of the Crown of God" can be draw from *anything* that means "Adoration," "Crown," or if really flexible, "of God." (Ellie? Hm. No, I don't think my mother-in-law is a Seraph.) Any language, or even a combination of two -- "Adoration" in Hebrew, "Crown" in English. (Firstname, last name.) Or go for Chinese, Japanese, and Hindu names while operating in the US -- nobody (not of those cultural backgrounds) knows what they're supposed to mean most of the time anyway. >and stupider still to (B) not >even let the angel say that that *was* his name. That's part of why you *have* that -- so that they could say it and only skirt the dissonance. As pointed out, they'd otherwise have to try to reproduce it with Singing skill. (Terri-Ann Blanche -- Terian, a Seraph who loves the color white, and *is* whitescaled in celform. Ramiah (exaltation of the Lord) aka "Mia Destine" (Seraph of Destiny)...) >(A) It makes acquiring a new Role almost pointless if you have enemies out >there who knew the old one, and you'll be operating in the same area. >"Hey, Strygnax...remember that 'Johan Smith' angel we bodykilled the other >day? Well, I happened to overhear that some guy called 'Johanuss Johnson' >is in town now, working similar circles. Seraphim are sure dumb, eh? Let's >go kill him..." That *is* dumb, yes. There are more synonyms for "John" (or Johanan, "who is liberal or merciful") than just those. If I had my files, I'd start looking. Assuming it was drawn from Johanan, one could be called "Mercy"... (I *know* of someone called Mercy! Hmmmm!) >(B) My real name is Jason Levine. Some people call me Jay or Jase. (Some >also call me Pee and P.K. [yes, in real life], but since that's an >alias/nickname, I'll save that one for a later discussion.) If I introduce >myself with "I'm Jay", that's not a lie. By David's standards, if I >introduce myself as anything but "Jason Michael Levine", I am technically >lying because anything less is not my FULL name. To a Seraph, who could hear the Truth ("He does not consider himself lying; he is often known as Jay; his full name is Jason Michael Levine, and his nicknames are Jay, Jase, Pee, P.K. and (to his mother only) sweetie."), it might be a "technical lie." Though not one that most would get upset about. (I'm even more obnoxious -- I have a ^ on my birth certificate for one of my names! There's no English way for me to easily reproduce my full name!) >Like I said, I like the writeup, but this part was (IMHO) a mistake. I'm >just ignoring it and using the rest; [...] The Malakim of Archives have far better things to do than make you conform. I'm just suggesting clever name-games. But I *love* namegames. It's how I found the bible-names file in the first place, hunting names on the web for my Excel namefile. [Still dealing with non-urgent email from the 400 messages from vacation] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:11:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Headaches At 8:20 AM -0500 1/6/98, Brandon Quina wrote: >> Oh, dear. I think my "I'm Only Renegade If They Catch Me" >> Lilim would *like* him. (This *is* the Lilim who, when >> Gabriel burned down a demonically-run strip joint, said, >> "I like her style." She got a Gabriel-Rite later, too.) > > She would be alone in that regard. The only person who >really likes Messiah (what a name, huh?) is Dominic and the Malakim. >And even the Malakim agree's that he has to learn to be abit more >subtle at times.. "Subtle? Oh, who cares about subtle?" Yes, well, Ellen's been known to shock people. She's getting exceedingly brainwashed by a couple of Creationers (Elohite in service to Jean, Seraph in service to Yves), don'tcha know. (Angelic brainwashing *works*! Gets rid of all those nasty little dark spots, and smites ring around the collar! Just pour in one cup and set for the gentle cycle on the patented Yves Washing Machine of Confusion ... Blame Em for this.) >But thats just because my version of Miami is a demons-bed, so they >like to lie low mostly.. Well, there is that. Hm. She's probably admire his attitude from afar. A-very-far, since she's trying to avoid notice from the demonic sides, and he *is* noisy. >Miami, as it is in my game, is pretty much covered with demons and >other demonly things.. the Demon of Drugs even hangs out there more >often than not (he's a word-bound servitor of Haagenti) >They havnt met 'em yet, but the Demon of Overdosing is also there.. Chaaaaaarming. >archangels and princes> ( I can understand that one, aye.) >Like im convinced that there isnt a Archangel of Love-- just a angel >in the service to Novalis :) Well, whoever holds the Word had better be careful. Andre might not like people who assume his old Word... (APG, p. 9) >> >::Grins:: Disturbance is cool. Our lil Servitor of Judgement >> >ranks up quite abit of it while punishing the guilty. > >> Tsk! > >Flaming Swords of Justice and Charm Songs tend to rake up the >disturbance-- as does the few times he's had to chase the guy and >break down doors-- that kinda stuff.. Really, now, the Sword of Judgment is meant more for demons -- while you hide in some nice safe place and snicker. Chasing people? He ought to get more subtle to make sure they don't notice to run. >Once somebody got away from him, cause there was a demon downstairs (it >was in a nightclub) that heard the disturbance, and saw that it was >upstairs.. :) Bet that annoyed him no end... >> It's a GM call. The segment on disturbance in the book says that >> echoes can lead people to the place, the person, or both in >> succession, at the GM's option. Another way to work it is >> to say that the CelSong of Motion causes disturbance at *both >> ends* (leaving and arriving). And, to make it really evil, >> let it cause the Song's disturbance *PLUS* the disturbance he >> was fleeing from! (The Symphony was being warpled anyway...) > >Hmmm, I like that.. Ill be sure to slip that into everybodys next >post "From now on, blah blah blah".. It's a PBEM? Got room for a lurker? >Not that he'll stop punishing >the guilty.. but if he's causing all that ruckus, he should atleast >have to pay for it :) right? Makes sense to *me*! (Which one are you going to use? Disturbance linking to him as well, or the CelSong of Motion bringing the disturbance along with him? I'd probably do the latter, myself.) >>>Mercurian of Judgement, Elohim of Creation, Kyriotate of Michael >>>Renegade Lilim (formely of the Game), a Remnant, and Malakim of >>>Swords. >>Oooooooog! Cool. Tell me about this sometime, hm? > >Ooooooooog?? Judgment, Creation, War! And a Renegade *of the Game*, oh *that's* got a life expectancy of .001 seconds! >So far this is how its worked out-- (warning: long) [snipsnip] >The Elohite was, believe it or not, loaned so that he is in the >service of Dominic. Dominic, obviously, dosnt trust the little >creationist-- so he assigns one of his most trusted servitors, >namly the Mercurian. AHHHHH! I love it. Sure, there are Creationers in service to Judgment. They're a little creative at times, of course... Okay, so the main conflict is the Judgment-War one. >The Remnant was a Cherub who was working with the Renegade Lilim-- who >had a several fear of joining up with the host due to some rumours of >what Dominic did to members of the HOST, much less redeemed demons that >had been passed along by various demon princes.. "They're used in brothels by Malakim with whips and stuff." (Everyone knows that Malakim are violent and abusive like Calabim, right?) "They don't exist -- Hellborn, especially Hellborn Lilim, *can't* be redeemed. They crisp." "They turn into slaves of the Sword, debriefed and stuck on the front lines till they die." Not to mention that Asmodeus seems to think that every Bright Lilim belongs to *him* if he can catch one... >If you wanna know more, just email me at lore@tmgbbs.com Willdo... >> Hm. Basically, you decide that the character is ready to ask; since >> nobody in the campaign is currently serving that Superior... Probably >> have to find an associated or allied or at least friendly Superior >> (or Tether thereof) and have a message sent. *NOVALIS*? In a >> bunch of war-faction except for the Creationer??? EEEP! Hm. >> Might actually have the best luck with the Judgment, depending >> on your view of them. Whether they *like* Novalis or not, they're >> pretty fair. From their point of view. > >What do you mean by 'ready to ask'?? How do you judge when she >is ready to ask-- I mean.. I know she has to want to, but I want to >make it harder than that.. But im not sure what to require.. It's basically a roleplaying thing. When the demon starts acting selflessly (protecting others, being nice to them, doing something for nothing, falling in love if you're that deep into roleplaying, etc.), then there's a good chance it's ready. Or you could have some kind of weekly Will roll -- which has to be *failed* (possibly with some CD), at which point she gives in to these selfless urges and starts believing the angels... There aren't official game-mechanics attached, and probably never will be. There are some game-mechanic things that can *lead* to the right state of mind, but you can get there by roleplaying instead, as well. If she's doing a good roleplaying job, that might be enough -- for someone who was born in Hell, and grew up with that as the norm (especially the *Game*, of all Words!), will probably be slow to trust, assume that everything is slanted to benefit the speaker, and try to find the self-interest angle in everything. As well as acquiring Geas-hooks on people, just 'cause... If she starts trying to serve the angelic Word that she's hoping to get in with -- *without* actually being Redeemed -- that might be a good place to start. If she starts getting into it, enjoying doing good... >And I cant really stop her from wanting to get away from violence >(although I think she's just roleplaying picking an archangel who is >known for being kind-- rather than somebody she'd actually want to >serve-- but I could be wrong) Oooo, I like that concept. I like that a lot. Maybe she'll change her mind with sufficient angelic propaganda from the others. >> And what Asmodeus does to redeemed traitors he catches. > >I think the fact that this Lilim used to be one of his servitors--- >and that she has plenty of knowledge about what is going on around >here (even if not knowledge of /why/ or /to what end/ its going on) >will make her an even liklier target.. >She's very much a hunted woman.. >and she knows it.. Mine had 9 *year*-Geases on her (8, now; Jean bought one), and depresses angels because she's simply certain that she's not going to survive those 8 years to even *think* about this Bright stuff. Talk to Em and me -- that's the thing about Lilim, they *know* they can't escape their ties... And running from somebody as tight-fisted and rules-happy as Asmodeus? This Lilim, as soon as he finds her (she *did* shatter her Heart, right???), is going to live a very long time wishing she were dead. [Still dealing with non-urgent email from the 400 messages from vacation] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:29:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners Partners ======== (I'm pretty sure this is all Maya's fault.) NARRATOR: IT STARTED OUT A COP MOVIE... Standard SFX for celestial forms. A Lilim (Tryphena) leans on a desk in front of a Balseraph. The Lil has minimal Geas-bands (a few bracelets only!) and is plainly outraged. Tryphena: "You want me to *WHAT*?? With one of *THEM*??" Bal: "It's just one of those buddy movies. A pair of Hell's very own police of the Game..." Tryphena: "*You made my co-star a SHEDITE!*" NARRATOR: ...WITH THE USUAL CASTING PROBLEMS. The Lilim, the Bal, and a roiling mass of ickiness (Zaccur), on a cop-room set. Tryphena: "I'm *NOT* going to work with that thing." Bal: "'Fena, darling, it's just acting." Zaccur: "Do I get a chainsaw?" Tryphena: Bal: "'Fena, if you walk out, the Prince is not going to be amused." Tryphena: "*It dripped on me*!" Bal: "CUT!" Zaccur: "Sorry." Bal: "Zack, my man, you gotta realize that this is not that kind of movie. Try not to drip on the co-star, 'kay?" Typhena: "I want a stunt double if it turns into one of *those* kinds of movies." Zaccur: "Right, no non-consensual dripping. Can I have a chainsaw?" Tryphena, Zaccur, Bal, on the set. It's obviously supposed to be a street in Shal-Mari. Tryphena, dubiously: "So what's my motivation for this scene again?" Bal: "You're a couple of Servitors of the Game, and you're staking out the place. We're trying to get a little 'odd-couple bonding banter' in." Zaccur, hopefully: "Don't Shedim of the Game get concealed chainsaws?" NARRATOR: BUT THEN THINGS GOT INTERESTING. The Bal bursts into a makeup room where Tryphena is having her hair and face done. In the corner, Zaccur is flipping through, you guessed it, a chainsaw catalog -- or maybe a copy of _PlayShedite_, it's hard to tell. Bal, excited: "'Fena, Zack! Just got word in, we're being moved upstairs, they're changing the scripts now! Guys, we are going to *Earth*!" Tryphena: "Earth..." Tryphena is walking around a corporeal realm, obviously enthralled by her very first vessel. The Bal is in a Balseraph-type vessel, looking on, and a scruffy man (who is actually kind of cute) is poking through a script. Zaccur (the scruffy one): "They didn't add any chainsaws." Tryphena: "You're starting to get on my nerves, you know." Zaccur: NARRATOR: *REALLY* INTERESTING. Tryphena and Zaccur are doing a fire-fight thing over a low, half-demolished wall. Cameras are plainly visible from various angles, and the set is in a vacant lot between two buildings. Suddenly, one of the camera-men screams and falls over, clutching at the gunshot wound in his back. Tryphena and Zaccur look at each other, then they both scramble over the wall and cower on the other side. There are more gunshots and screaming and stuff off-camera. Tryphena: "You didn't smuggle in any non-blank ammo, did you?" Zaccur, sounding worried for the first time: "Not even a chainsaw." Tryphena, cowering as more gunshots glance off their improvised cover: "So what's going on??" Zaccur peeks over the wall, crouches back down. Zaccur: "How about guys with black wings coming down from the roofs and doing the flaming-swords thing to our director?" Tryphena shoots him a disgusted look and peeks over herself. The camera cuts to 2-4 angels (at least one a Malakite, to judge from the black NC) trashing the set, the cameras, and the Balseraph. Flaming swords are in evidence. Tryphena sinks back to the ground, looking horrified. Tryphena, somewhat in shock: "Angels. What are we going to do?" Zaccur: "I don't know about you, but I'm leaving. Now." A somewhat disheveled Tryphena and Zaccur run stealthy through a bunch of abandoned buildings and movie sets (hey, it's a low-budget flick on the Perdition side...). They look hunted, and Tryphena is outright scared. Tryphena: "Angels. Why did it have to be angels? We weren't doing anything!" Zaccur: "Well, there's that base of the Sword about a half-hour outside of town. Somebody must have tipped them off, though." Tryphena: "Who'd be dumb enough to do that??" Zaccur, seriously: "A traitor." Zaccur and Tryphena, holed up somewhere. They speak in hushed, upset tones. Tryphena: "Your role has gone to your head! We're not Gamesters, we just play them in front of the camera!" Zaccur: "Look, we're each other's alibi -- that means that if we can't give Prince Nybbas the *real* traitor, we'll *both* be blamed." Tryphena: "Well, the scripters did say they'd had the technical details checked out by a real Gamester..." NARRATOR: AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BECOME PARTNERS FOR REAL. Tryphena and Zaccur are in dark clothes, breaking into a house. Zaccur voiceover: "We should check the camera crew first -- they're only humans, one of them might have gone over." Tryphena, whispering: "I don't even play Theft on the screen!" Zaccur: "Shh, I've almost got this lock." Zaccur and Tryphena, holding a flashlight over a paper in a dark office. Zaccur: "You know what this means, don't you?" Tryphena: "They've got the traitor at their base. We're dead." Zaccur: "No, no, we just need to break him out." NARRATOR: IT'S NEVER THAT EASY, OF COURSE. Three thuggish "Demons in Black" types are in a car. Demon 1 (Balseraph, driving): "Found 'em." Demon 2 (Calabite, toying with a gun): "Think the Lilim's Renegade too?" Demon 3 (Djinn): "Does it matter?" Zaccur and Tryphena are driving along, speeding. Their windshield is in tatters. Tryphena is panicked looking, while Zaccur is grim. Tryphena, wailing: "Who are they?? Why are they shooting at us??" Zaccur: "They're some old acquaintances. I think they're after me." Tryphena: "WHAT? WHY?" Zaccur: "I expect they discovered where I went after I shattered my Heart." Tryphena: "*WHAT*?" Zaccur: "Do you suppose the Sword-angels would give us refuge from the Game, if we asked nicely?" The car is tipped over and burning in the ditch, while Tryphena and Zaccur crawl away into underbrush, frantically. Another car is on an overpass, and shots are ringing out. Tryphena: "You've made me Renegade!" Zaccur: "Well, if we get the traitor, we can always ask Prince Nybbas to forgive us. Look at it this way -- when we get to the Sword-base, these people will cause a lot of confusion for us." Tryphena: "So who are you running from, anyway?" Zaccur, looking embarassed: "Ah, well, actually... the Prince of the Game." Our Heros cowering as a car blows up in front of them. * Tryphena koshing the Calabite over the head with an Oscar statuette in an office. * Zaccur casually tripping one of the Sword-angels (from the earlier fight scene) in a hallway. * Tryphena and Zaccur accosting one of the camera crew in a bland "saferoom." Tryphena, in a rage: "So *you're* the one who betrayed us to the angels!" Zaccur, mildly: "Think you could put in a good word for us with them?" * Tryphena, hanging from a rooftop while the Calabite focuses on her, grinning evilly. * Djinn creeping up on an angelic sort while our Heros hide in the shadows behind both of them. Zaccur shrugs, then calls out, "Demon at six-o'clock!" * Zaccur casually tripping the Balseraph, in a similar hallway. * Tryphena stands over a fallen Zaccur, gun in her trembling hands. "You leave him alone! I've played a cop before, I know how these things work." * Tryphena helping a groggy Zaccur away from a room. He murmurs, "The safety was on, you know." * More explosions and running around screaming. * Some fight-scenes between various demons, angels, soldiers, whatnot... NARRATOR: BUT THEN, THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE NEVER EASY. Our Heros stand over the Calabite, who is battered unto dying. Zaccur is limping and looks much the worse for wear. Calabite, smiling: "Doesn't matter, Renegade. We left a bomb in the armory, secondary objective. Your 'proof' is going to blow sky high in another twenty minutes, and Nybbas will have you both publically executed." Zaccur, whispering: "A bomb..." Tryphena: "All those people! Half of them don't even know what's going on!" Zaccur, turning to go: "I've got to stop it." Tryphena, hurrying after him: "You can't do it alone." Zaccur, grimly: "I have to try." Tryphena: "*We* have to try." Our Heros sneaking around. * A bomb ticking away in an armory. * Seraphic sort staying his Malakite comrade from cutting down Tryphena, saying, "No, wait, she's telling the truth." * Zaccur crouched over the bomb. * The Balseraph (also bloody and battered) coming up behind somebody with a bloody big sword. * Tryphena grappling with the Balseraph for the sword. She's losing. Zaccur, commenting absently to the Seraphic fellow, "This is exciting. If I can't defuse this, there's probably going to be no one left alive here for me to possess." Seraph: "Your kind doesn't go to Limbo, do they." (It's not a question.) Zaccur: "Oh, sure we do. We just never get out. But it'd be better than what would happen to 'Fena as a 'traitor.' I'm sure she'd be executed prettily. Pity I wouldn't get to watch." Seraph: "You're terrified -- and you don't want her hurt." Zaccur: "That too. Here goes nothing." He holds a pair of wirecutters and tightens his grasp on them. The music goes dead, and we cut away to the black screen with the ScreechCaps title: IN NOMINE: PARTNERS Zaccur holding Tryphena on a rooftop, half-helping, half-pulling her away from the edge. She clutches at him and looks back. Tryphena: "You came back..." Zaccur: "I get so tired of betraying my friends sometimes." [Still dealing with non-urgent email from the 400 messages from vacation] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 05:55:36 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> A resonance question > Tell him nice try. Any failed resonance roll means you can't use it on > that subject (at least for the same purpose) for a number of hours equal to > the check digit. And on *any* failed resonance roll with a check digit of > 6, the resonance becomes useless for a period of hours! (In Nomine, p. > 56-57). I've read the rulebook three times, and I missed that... Actually, my player will be relieved - he was hoping there'd be a sensible limitation. > -David (just out of curiousity, do you have any .sig files that _aren't_ > obscene?) Well, yeah.... but where's the sport in that? (Point taken. Time to go to a less... confrontational .sig) - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I want to be a phallic symbol like the Tower of Pisa And wipe the smile off smile off the face of that bitch, the Mona Lisa I'll date Botticelli's Venus, just to tease her But unless you're hung like a Jackson Pollock You couldn't please her! DOUG ANTHONY ALLSTARS, "Fuck You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 05:14:24 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles At 23:54 06/01/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > according to the APH, malakim don't enjoy humor, they are deadpan >characters. > > >jahon > So its a very dry sense of humour that the rest of the universe just fails to get ;) There are some things which you don't joke about but I'm sure that still leaves plenty of scope for a determined psychopath to get amusing. jo - --- It seems to be much more than Art When the Art you sell is you. Be careful how you play the game, Or else the game plays you. - J.J. Walker "To the Artist" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:21:35 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Destiny or bust! At 19:20 06/01/98 +0000, you wrote: > >If I didn't have Slothful/4, I'd write up my Angel of Sorcery, who is >definitely going to be a Malakite of Blandine + Yves. My inspiration was p >11 of the Marches, under Little Dreams. I'd like to see that (what do I have to do, crack the electro-whip to get you to start writing? :) ) > "Another type of dreamer especially favoured by Blandine is the >ambitious madman - any human who dream of building an empire, making a >new nation or toppling an old one is likely, too, to be favoured with an >angelic guardian." > Does this worry anyone else? ;) What happens when one person's dream equates to a lot of other people's nightmares...? jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 04:53:45 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles At 17:15 06/01/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Sure. The Seraph can write "Fred" on a name tag and let others assume. On >the other hand, if a human walks up to him and asks "Is your name Fred?" >the Seraph can't say "Yes." I don't think he can say "No." (Won't go round this roundabout again but as he could answer "Yes, some people call me Fred." which is precisely what the questioner wants to know, I'd say he could shorten that to "Yes" in the knowledge that the asker will imply the rest. Its not a lie if you allow someone to imply something which is true. If the questioner wanted to know more, they could have asked in a more specific manner.) >>>>Evolution and natural selection are not theories, they are phenomenon. They can easily be reproduced in any laboratory situation.<<< >Really? Who's managed to evolve something in a lab? *hand up* Me, but it involved a used coffee cup that I lost and accidentally found, unwashed-up, after about a year ;-) Biologists do experiments on mutating fruit flies (and other things with heinously short life-cycles) though. jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:17:45 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: Anime off-topic (Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2) On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >And what would you call Ifurita anyway? Scary. > >Not a chance. Sylia, if anything, is a Habbalite. She's fighting for revenge. > > But she's so cool and calm and collected most of the time. It's not > just revenge, it's the right thing to do! Elohite. Elohim are neat. I like Elohim. They're my favorite Choir to NPC. But I wouldn't -trust- an Elohite with my life. (Ref. that scene where Sylia sacrifices Nene to win the game.) > >Both by Go Nagai, who also created 'Devilman,' which IMHO should be a > >'must-see' for IN players. Nagai is noted for being no-holds-barred on sex, > >violence, and slapstick. > > And breasts the size of watermelons for most of the female villians? You say this like it's a bad thing! ;;;) > >>PatLabor: Reading both the manga and watching the anime is best. > > > >Avoid the movies. Talking heads for 1:45, action for :15. TV series is fun. > > We just watched the movie 2. Very... Well, the *animation* was > UTTERLY SPECTACULAR. The talking heads. Yes, well... What, you don't like plot? I think the storyline (aka 'talking heads') is what makes these movies so great. Movie 2 is practically a textbook on how to conduct psychological warfare... > >You-sen-gai-sya, I think. "Phantom Quest Corporation." Hilarious. > > Utterly. The Spanish guitar in the opening theme is a cute touch. > >>Plastic Little is high on fan service, high on explosions, negligable > >> on plot. Worth the $1 to rent it. > >No it's not. > > Well, depends on how you feel about the fan-service, I suppose. I found it utterly unrealistic. I mean, when -I- go frolicking nude through artificial springs.... Erm. Nevermind. > >I'd recommend other anime as well, but unfortunately it would have > >absolutely zero application to IN. }:-{D > > Oh, well, true. We don't need no steeekin' relevance.... - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:59:12 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Seed: You Go Yahweh, I'll Go My Way > > different form of God entirely. (I have, in fact, come to the conclusion > > that the Lilim are a product of Greek Orthodox paradoxs, which they seem > > to love so much, but for different reasons entirely.) > > Explain this, please....you've piqued my interest. > Oh, have I now? What will you gi-, er, sorry. Been around Lilim too much lately, as you can see. Now hopefully I understand this correctly, so if I make a handful of technical errors, go with it, nod your head, and wave a hand. One of the most hotly contested debates, especially during the early years of Christianity and into the Middle Ages, was the attempt to reconcile the existance of God, whose divine form cannot be understood by mortal men, could manifest itself in the human form of Jesus Christ. If Jesus was divine, which was accepted by caveat, then he could not be truly understood, yet he died on the Cross just like a man, and he communicated in such a way as to be understood by mortals. Thus, the Incarnation, whose province was not to be understood but accepted. There are several variations on this, and which later manifested itself in the form of the Trinity, which is handed down to us, as a method of allowing man to easier commune with God. Now, Philosophers (the Faylasufs) of the Middle Ages argued this endlessly, attempting to work out the paradox of God-as-Man, but in Greek Orthodoxy, the concept of the paradox is proof of God's true divine nature. Since his Incarnation could not be understood even by Philosophers, then the paradox of his existance is proof that he cannot be understood by mortal man. This sort of mystical logic is considered holy, and it is the pondering of such mental puzzles which is to bring Holy Men closer to their God. Not being able to understand was a parable of the Truth of the Doctrine. Now what I said was a joke. Lilim have been a hot topic lately off-list, and as much as I've talked about them, I still don't understand them. Their paradox of being able to be Free within the confines of Hell, which is a Prison of sorts, gets to be confusing after a time, something that I haven't totally worked out yet, and I just decided this was proof of their semi-divine nature. :) They have this weird ability of being Free and Bound, Good and Evil simultaniously. It's enough to make yer head explode in a big greezy mess. - - Em, Ripple Blinkin' right at ya ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:14:52 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles >>>So I'm going to make my point, which I think you sort of missed. I was under the (maybe mistaken) impression that In Nomine was a *game*, and one in which several people got together to have some enjoyment every once in a while. To be frankly honest, the Seraphim PC is very difficult to play with just the normal rule book, and I have received more then a few comments and complaints from my player who chose to play one of Destiny, several of which had merit and a few of which that didn't. Most of the commentary boils down to the simple fact: if the character by nature and by rules is very difficult to play by caveat, it makes the game very difficult to play, it makes the player and GM really work to make the character involved, and it makes everyone just want to go outside and have a big bonfire courtesy of Steve Jackson Games. The game no longer becomes *fun*, which I thought was the entire point in the first place. Of course, I have been known to be wrong.<<< I see you've been given a Rite by Acerbiel. I don't know what to say to your problem, because it's simply not my experience. I've had Seraph PCs in my games (online and ftf), and none of my Seraph players have encountered this difficulty in enjoying their characters. Yes, it is sometimes a PITA to have to be Seraphically honest, but they expected that when they chose a Seraph PC. Now, you can soften the Seraph dissonance conditions as much as you feel necessary for your particular campaign and group of players. If a player is having that much trouble with the concept of a character that can't lie, twist words, or otherwise be deceptive the way *most* RPG characters are prone to do, then without any sarcasm or scorn intended, all I can say is that perhaps that player should play something other than a Seraph. >>>I know it's tempting to jump up and down and scream, "But they resonante for truth! I wrote it right there!" but there's got to be a point where the person writing the rules has to remember the human beings who actually spend the money and play the game, and there is a line between going along with canon and when the game is no longer an enjoyable experience.<<< Now, now, I very rarely jump up and down and scream. Wrinkle my nose and grumble is more like it. Seraphim *do* resonate for truth. If you have *specific* points as to how you think Seraphim as written (in the main book and in the APG) are unplayable, feel free to make them. I understand the problem with names. And to be perfectly honest, that addition wasn't originally mine. I am defending the position because it *does* make sense, but contrary to the impression you seem to have gained, I am not going to suffer dissonance or make Big Sad Beth-like Eyes at you if you all decide that a Seraph CAN say "My name is Fred" without it being a lie. The fact that so many seem to find it a problem is food for thought - -- perhaps it will be addressed in the future. But as to your other implications -- that making Seraphim follow their fundamental Choir nature makes them unfun and unplayable -- I can't conclude anything from your comments and verbal pokes other than that you and your players are having an experience that is by no means universal. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #554 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.