From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 13 08:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18960 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:56:08 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA29500 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:35:49 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:35:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199801131435.IAA29500@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #562 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 562 In this digest: Re: IN> Malakite and dissonance Re: IN> In Nomine Jewelry IN> Neat Web-page [SOL] Re: IN> Malakite and dissonance Re: AW: IN> Malakite and dissonance Re: Re: IN> In Nomine Jewelry IN> Of Vessels and Roles... IN> Malakite and dissonance IN> Seraphim and Roles Rule... IN> Rev. Jack and his Roamin' Cadillac Church Re: Re: IN> In Nomine Jewelry Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Rule... Re: IN> Malakim Humor Re: IN> Losing your wings? Re: IN> Lilim of Eris Re: IN> Malakite and dissonance Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble Re: IN> Losing your wings? Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... Re: IN> Losing your wings? Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... Re: IN> Losing your wings? Re: IN> Questions, apparently not frequently asked ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:22:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakite and dissonance At 11:58 AM +0000 1/12/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >And the Balseraph may well have developed the Detect Lies skill (though >since it is a Balseraph, maybe not) (They don't believe *they're* lying, not that others won't lie. Since they're all minorly paranoid, they may well believe that others lie by default. Probably because they can no longer *tell*. Poor things.) >to a greater extent than the Malakite >has developed his abilities at Lying. > >How do Malakites approach genuine oath-taking in any event? Okay, I've generally considered that since there are two oaths all Malakim take, that's just part of the "Malakim Theme" in the Symphony. When a Malakite is created, or when a reliever fledges as a Malakite, the first two oaths just *ARE*. They're not taken as a separate thing. They are a part of the angel from the first breath as a Virtue. The other two, I treat similarly... An Archangel will probably be the one who approves/selects the other two oaths when the angel is created. A reliever may get it that way, or the other two may be drawn from the reliever's personality and deeply held convictions -- or carefully planned and practiced choice! As the reliever is doing whatever fledging thing the GM/player likes, the notes of honor are seeping in; the concepts the reliever most adores are hardening into the form of oaths that can be expressed in simple, unyielding sentences. Additional ones... They probably involve a lot of internal ceremony, at the least. The process of taking some concept and distilling it until it is an oath... At 12:29 PM +0000 1/12/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >> >And a smart Balseraph would know this and require the Malakite to take >> >that oath, at least a one-use oath. >> >> Malakim are not Lilim!!!! They can't do one-time-oaths, last time I >> looked. Each oath a Malakite takes is FOREVER. >> >What if they stick clauses into it? The Malakite can specify a time >period within an oath. So the oath may last forever, but unless Kronos >sends them back in time it's not going to affect them again. If the GM wants to allow that, then the GM can. If some PC suggested that to me for a Malakite, I would give the player a beady eye and ask if the Malakite really wanted to have that "limited oath" on his conscience when his Superior next ran into him. >> >I often wonder about character longevity. I've avoided characters being >> >anywhere near that old. I sort of assume that if someone's that old and >> >they're not Word-bound with lots of Servitors, that they're doing >> >something wrong. >> >> That's also addressed in the APG, y'know... O;> >> >Given that the damn thing hasn't reached the shores of the Emerald Isle, >that is of absolutely no use to me. Emerald Isle? Urm? Where *is* that? (And at least you know there *is* an answer about it, right?) At 12:20 PM +0000 1/12/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: [...] >Granted. (Since Malakites don't suffer Trauma, how long does it take >their Vessel to regenerate?) Vessels don't regenerate. They are created by Superiors (or by celestials in Limbo). But the Malakite can be waiting in line to beg his Archangel for a new vessel right after he finds himself a little light-headed next to his Heart. At 2:35 PM +0100 1/12/98, Samuel Ranzato wrote: >> In reference to an earlier statement about what a Malakite would do if >> the demon he is supposed to destroy is "out of his league", Is it >> honorable to call in additional Malakim brothers and sisters (yes, I >> know angels are not supposed to have a gender ;-) to slay the evil >> creature ??? (Malakim siblings. Lovely term...) Better to call in help to destroy an evil than to attack knowing that you will fail, and leave the evil alive. Very young Malakim may not realize this at once, but after a while they ought to figure out that Dead Evil is the desired goal, not "I kilt it all by myself!" [Still dealing with non-urgent email from the 400 messages from vacation] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Jewelry > >Imagine how much fun you can have with, for example a Gabriel(tm) Action > >Figure with light-up eyes. Or, a Laurence(tm) Action Figure with a swinging > >sword arm. > > > >Itīs just an idea. > > Hey, Em, don't forget the detachable Sense Of Purpose! Ahem. This is the time I point out that the above quote has officially, finally, become Out of Context (tm). Hah. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:40:19 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: IN> Neat Web-page [SOL] Hey, y'all. We here at Earlham College just started a PBeM. It's cosed at the moment, but we'd really like it if you could check out the web-site, since the bastards won't give us more space unless we get a fair number of hits. I figure if everyone here (or most everyone) just looked at it once, we'd be set. The game is called SOL: Soldiers of Linn. It's an In Nomine soldiers game; I'm using ruls loosely based upon those usedi n Eternal Dawn (Thanks Paul!) Anyway, we got some decent art, some interesting stories (Francis Simon Christi's in really neat) and other stuff, including a link to the Steve Jackson In Nomine pages. Cool stuff: Must See: Please Do! http://www.angelfire.com/in/llloyd/ - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:08:49 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Malakite and dissonance > > >>>And a smart Balseraph would know this and require the Malakite to take > > that oath, at least a one-use oath.<<< > > > > > > Wouldn't work. Unless the Malakite already has an oath "Always keep my > > promises," he can tell the Balseraph anything he wants -- "Yes, I promise > > to let you go/Yes, I hereby take an oath that I shall let you go," but it > > doesn't have to be true. If the Balseraph is smart, he will simply make the Malakim speak the angelic tongue (either by going Celestial, using Singing skill, or if he has that one distinction of Michael or Laurence--forget which), since it cannot express a falsehood. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:10:13 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: AW: IN> Malakite and dissonance On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > Granted. (Since Malakites don't suffer Trauma, how long does it take > their Vessel to regenerate?) Their vessels *don't* regenerate. They have to petition their Superior for a new one, just like everyone else. They themselves appear instantly next to their heart, awake and ready. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:12:51 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: Re: IN> In Nomine Jewelry On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 IQJason@aol.com wrote: > "Good catch, Nathaniel. They were just posted on Friday. Yes, the choir > pins are now available. Still available are the "stylized cross" design, and > the SJG logo Eye in the Pyramid pins. Coming soon will be the Infernal Band > logos and at least one new In Nomine T-Shirt." > > Okay...here's a freebie to pass around the marketing table. > Superior backings for the pins. > > Brightly colored plastic "shields" with a hole in the center to stick the > pin-shaft of the choir/band icon in. (I'm presuming the pins are black, like > White Wolf's) That way, you can have a full description. An orange flame for > Gabriel;a television screen for Nybbas; an hourglass for Kronos...get the > picture? I've gotta second that idea! They'd be cheap to make, and if they didn't look too tacky, they'd add something...though I don't know if any celestial in their right mind would actually walk around *advertising* like that...:) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:11:34 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... >>>It is an excellent way to get spies on the Other Side. Just kill a Soldier of Lucifer (they deserve to die) then create an angel who looks and acts just like him. Of course, the angel will surely Fall if he acts too good but hey, thatīs life!<<< Well, there are other ways to try that scam (like the Celestial Song of Form). But a supposed Soldier of Hell hanging around demons will have a hard time not being discovered as a celestial eventually. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:11:32 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Malakite and dissonance >>>How do Malakites approach genuine oath-taking in any event?<<< A Malakite can take a new oath anytime he wants to. But he certainly wouldn't do it at the behest of a demon. >>>Granted. (Since Malakites don't suffer Trauma, how long does it take their Vessel to regenerate?)<<< As long as it takes their Superior to decide to give them a new one.... >>>What if they stick clauses into it? The Malakite can specify a time period within an oath. So the oath may last forever, but unless Kronos sends them back in time it's not going to affect them again.<<< That would be a weaselly kind of oath, and probably an abuse of their resonance. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 22:30:58 PST From: "bruce dykes" Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles Rule... Just a simple and elegant rule for Seraphim attempting to answer questions of identity with info from a role: Have your seraph make a dissonance roll, but let him take the level of the role as a bonus... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 23:47:45 PST From: "bruce dykes" Subject: IN> Rev. Jack and his Roamin' Cadillac Church Okay, my first character based on a song: "For the well to to do doctor, there's a home and a summer retreat, For the jet settin' banker, there's a place in the social elite, But for the poor and the hungry, all the lost souls left in the lurch, There's just Reverend Jack and his Roamin' Cadillac church." Timbuk3 Reverend Jack and his Roamin' Cadillac Church Mercurian servitor of Creation Corp 5 Str 12 Agl 8 Eth 4 Int 7 Prc 9 Cel 3 Wll 6 Per 6 Vessel/3 Role/2 Skills: Climbing 1 Driving 2 Carpentry 4 Fighting 3 Small Weapon (Hammer) 3 Songs: Form Co2 Healing Co2 Et2 Ce2 NC Foot2 Wings2 Shields Co2 Et2 Ce2 Artifact: '51 black Cadillac convertible in mint condition, add suitable features as you desire... Reverend Jack is an itinerant carpenter. He's spent the last 150 years on Earth, going from town to town, looking for construction work wherever he can find it. When he does land a job, he befriends his coworkers, and ferrets out the disaffected and apathetic ones. He doesn't actually preach, he doesn't carry a bible (though if you want him to, feel free...), but he does try to convince them that whatever little bit they do *does* make a difference, and no matter how slight, it's just as important. He doesn't officially work for Yves yet, but Yves *is* watching him closely and will likely offer him an official position soon. He doesn't quite get other angels' preoccupations with demons, since (to him) the War is all about humanity. Most angels assigned to Earth rather like him coming round, since their jobs tend to be a little bit easier when he leaves. He does attract a fair bit of attention from Kronos' servitors wherever he goes, but he has no qualms dealing out a corporeal etiquette lesson to any diabolical who bothers him and his current project. Special Rite: +1 essence for every person he convinces to participate in a charitable construction project (barn raising, Habitat for Humanity, etc) suggested uses: an antagonist for servitors of Kronos; a pet project for servitors of Yves, they need to help him realize his destiny as a servitor of Yves... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:06:29 -0500 From: The Baron Samedi Subject: Re: Re: IN> In Nomine Jewelry At 10:09 AM 1/12/98 , you wrote: >"Good catch, Nathaniel. They were just posted on Friday. Yes, the choir >pins are now available. Still available are the "stylized cross" design, and >the SJG logo Eye in the Pyramid pins. Coming soon will be the Infernal Band >logos and at least one new In Nomine T-Shirt." > >Okay...here's a freebie to pass around the marketing table. >Superior backings for the pins. > >Brightly colored plastic "shields" with a hole in the center to stick the >pin-shaft of the choir/band icon in. (I'm presuming the pins are black, like >White Wolf's) That way, you can have a full description. An orange flame for >Gabriel;a television screen for Nybbas; an hourglass for Kronos...get the >picture? > >yours, >Jason Schneiderman, Balseraph of the Media > why do I see a Have a Nice Day Face for Novialis? a Book for Yves might be nice,and I agree...andres would be interesting The Baron Samedi occasionally doubling a Cherub of Destiny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:01:32 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble Kevin Walsh wrote a LONG time ago: >> [Brandon] >> >Calabim seem to be twisted forces of entropy, who take pleasure >> >in dragging things down. The crazed. More 'serial killers' and >> >'stalkers' than the Djinn. Somewhat like the two murderers in >> >Scream. >> >> DESTRUCTION. One word, one goal, one dream, one vision. >> I like the Calabim, they're straightforward like that. >> >For good Calabite playing, remember that destruction can be metaphorical >as well. Calabites of Beleth, Kronos or Malphas are the easiest to >remember in this regard, but it's not exclusive to them. One day, I'm >going to make a Calabite of Fire around this. This is certainly true... My Calabite of Destiny (DVPBEM) "Slick", well, I like to think about him as being a destroyer of Fate. :) >Also remember that as fallen Ofanim (some of them anyway), the >destruction is a substitute for motion. They've lost the ability to be in >tune with the movement of the Universe, and they hate the Universe for >it. My Calabite of War has The Art of Combat as part of his concept (not >just as a funky power). When he's doing 4 attacks in one round and >dodging every blow aimed at him, he feels _alive_ again, until he has to >stop or run out of Essence... Hmmm... yeah, I see what you're saying. I like it. >> Vulnearability/3 (sunlight) 9pts > >I reckon vulnerability to sunlight should be worth more per level, about >5 points, because it's fairly all-pervasive. Actually, sunlight is very overrated (just kidding). Well, with heavy cloaks, sticking to shadows and lenient gamemasters, it shouldn't be so bad. "Just be home by dawn!" >> Vulnearability/3 (running water) 9pts > >For true silliness; Vulnerability to fire (extra damage), or stakes through >the heart (again, extra damage), or holy water. Oh, yes, oh yes... >> Fear/3 (fire) 9pts >> Fear/3 (sunlight) 9pts > >You left out fear of crosses. An example of how much I look to P.N. Elrods' take on vampires in her series: The Vampire Files and the "Blood" series. Good stuff, check it out. In that serious, crosses have no effect. In fact, I believe the main character of the Blood series is Christian (though my memory is faded here) >> Anger/3 (beast within) 3pts [reduced cost; only applies when character >> hasn't fed for a while] >> >> >> That gives a vampire character an extra 57pts to play with. Now, that's >> power. 'Course, it sucks to be a vampire, but this makes it more >> tolerable. >> >> Cool stuff for vampires: >> Vampiric Kiss [IN pg 179] > >With Ethereal Attraction below, it's a killer. Ooooo, hella cool. >> Shedim of Theft [IN pg 181] > >Let me guess, you played Gangrel. Heh, never played V:TM, but I I did tend to lean more towards the Gangrel, yes. ;) >> [perhaps Valefor would give his vampires an Attunement that allowed them >> to suck out a person's essence along with their blood. On the other >hand, >> a vampire sorceror could do just that, using themselves as a Reliquary >> when using Focus/2 (GM allowing) and for sure with Focus/5!! (MARCHES pp >> 61-52)] > >You know, I never even considered Vampiric Sorcerors. Hot Damn! That'd kick so much ass! Old, powerful, able to hold their own maybe... Oooo I feel a powerful villain coming on... >> Balseraph of Lust > >You have thought this out, haven't you? What? No, I just ran through the book and found the goodies. Why, what's wrong with it? :) >> Song of... >> Form(Ethereal) [just cause it's cool] > >Form(Corporeal), because you need to avoid damage very badly. This is true, especially with that sun a comin' up. >> Healing(all) [a must for any immortal] >> Fangs as well as any of the Numinous Corpus >> >Possession is cool too. >And the Incendiary and Art of Combat attunements are nice. >Prank (aargh! Ravnos) is also pretty WOD compatible. >And Consume is very very cool. AhHA! Yes, yes, yes!!! I don't remember if I got to the Servitor Attunements... >> And, yes, in my house ruls, certain soldiers have access to noncorporeal >> songs. Usually only those with a strong tie to the divine or demonic, >and >> I'd consider vampirism DEMONIC. > >It's canon for Vampires to have noncorporeal songs, to my knowledge. Errr... don't know. I ignore canon for vamps since I don't care much for the In Nomine ruls for them. I LIKE vampires. :)= >> As far as I'm concerned. Oh, wait... AFAIK, they can. Humans can have >> discord. There're people with stimata out there (AFAIK) and quite a few >> obese people; not to mention all the Geased people (IN world), and the > > phobic (Fear) and paranoid. Not to mention Greed, Gluttony and >Slothful. >> > >I gather though, that it's not Discord in the strictest sense, more along >the lines of a Flaw. Yes, as the canonizers have pointed out. :) >> >> Hmmmm... I wouldn't mind a WoD "feel" for IN. Wow... That'd be dark, eh? >> Then again, I suppose Dark Victory HAS done that pretty well. Of course, >> there aren't Mages in it. Yeah, crossing IN and WoD would be REALLY >> nice for my group at school. They're pretty heavy into WW. Man, it'd be >> awesome to bring in a few angels... he he he... >> > >Don't Celestial Chorus folk already have to deal with them? Or what they >believe are angels? Vampires in general view all malevolent spirits as >demons, and demonics and angelics can be found in the Tempest. Angels and >demons exist in the High Umbra in any event, along with all the other >"concept" spirits. Yum, I like it already. :) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:49:00 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Rule... > Just a simple and elegant rule for Seraphim attempting to answer > questions of identity with info from a role: > Have your seraph make a dissonance roll, but let him take the level of > the role as a bonus... Wouldnt do much, except prevent him from going Outcast/Falling. Afterall, even a 'passed' dissonance roll gives you a note of dissonance.. :) Nice try though.. Perhaps have the angel make a Role roll (Corporeal + Role Level, I believe?? Dont wanna look it up) to see if that counts as a 'lie' or not.. If it does, then he makes a dissonance roll. If not, then he dosnt have to make one because he didnt lie. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:11:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Humor > > Bite me - I was thinking beyond the immediate stereotype. > It would actively make a lot of sense. > > Now - who was his Superior? > I would have thought Jean, but I've never seen him conjure a microcomputer into his hand. > > Data - Seraph of Lightning (though there were probably times he > lied, but I'll ignore those on the grounds that he fits the > stereotype beautifully). > > Q - Habbalah of Kobal. > Nice. > Ensign - Severly dissonant Kyriotate of Technology. By Next > Generation, has fallen, joing the increasingly demonic crew. (Can > you tell which Gen I lost respect for Trek at?) > I never liked the original series, and looking back I dislike the first few seasons of TNG. IMO, the main problem with Star Trek was Gene Roddenberry. > Scotty - Cherub of Technology, attuned to the ship (esp the warp > core and transporters). Senschal of the Starship Enterprise. I'd > say that Geordi was another vessel of his, but Jordi just ain't as > cool... > Methinks all chief engineers are cherubs of technology, somehow. > Bones - Mercurian of Creation in Service to Technology. > > Luxana Troy (Diana's mother) - Impudite of Lust. > Lust, most certainly. Impudite, I have my doubts about. Don't forget her empathic abilities. > Wesley Crusher - Hellspawn. > Agreed. > Any guesses for Sulu, Chekov, and other original characters? > No, I really didn't watch them enough. Worf is a Malakite of War (I know it's obvious). Riker is a Mercurian of War, methinks. Picard is another Elohite, probably the only Star Trek commander who is. War seems to fit him better than the others. (Damn, I keep having to pick the same Superior.) Odo...Cherub of Judgement. Quark is a Balseraph of Greed, no question. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:17:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Losing your wings? > At 6:14 PM -0500 1/9/98, Jack of Spades wrote: > >Unfortunately, her Superior is none too happy with her right now. > > Something about that 200+ level Disturbance To The Symphony that wasn't > >necessary... she lost the Force trying to get away afterward. > > Oh, tell me about this in private Email? > Bah, that's nothing. I manipulated my Shedite friend into nuking a small French town. (Baal wanted it, mine is not to reason why.) Can you say million-point disturbance? My GM reckons the echoes should last about a year, after which he'll be able to get back to Earth without Celestial perceptions picking him up as the cause of the disturbance. It doesn't compare to the Mage game last year where New York was nuked, but I wanted it to happen this time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:19:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Lilim of Eris > >And things like Valefor's Lilim attunement. Do they have to specify the > >kind of geas they want to inflict before making the Perception roll? > > No -- that's at the invoking stage. They subtract the level of the > Geas *and* their Ethereal Forces from the victim's Will roll to > resist doing as she asks. > That's what I hoped it meant, but it was a bit unclear. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:29:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Malakite and dissonance > At 11:58 AM +0000 1/12/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: > >And the Balseraph may well have developed the Detect Lies skill (though > >since it is a Balseraph, maybe not) > > (They don't believe *they're* lying, not that others won't lie. Since > they're all minorly paranoid, they may well believe that others lie > by default. Probably because they can no longer *tell*. Poor things.) > That's more or less what I meant. Given the way they lie to themselves all the time, some of them might be incapable of suspecting that someone might tell the truth, even without the paranoia Discord. > >What if they stick clauses into it? The Malakite can specify a time > >period within an oath. So the oath may last forever, but unless Kronos > >sends them back in time it's not going to affect them again. > > If the GM wants to allow that, then the GM can. If some PC suggested > that to me for a Malakite, I would give the player a beady eye and > ask if the Malakite really wanted to have that "limited oath" on > his conscience when his Superior next ran into him. > I wasn't suggesting it as a general practice. Certainly someone who did it more than once might well suffer the fate of the chap with two points of Dissonance. > >> That's also addressed in the APG, y'know... O;> > >> > >Given that the damn thing hasn't reached the shores of the Emerald Isle, > >that is of absolutely no use to me. > > Emerald Isle? Urm? Where *is* that? An annoying, cutesy name for Ireland. Of course, it could be in other parts of Ireland, but it's not in Dublin. > (And at least you know there *is* an answer about it, right?) > I don't see a pragmatic difference between an answer existing and being written down somewhere I can't access it and that answer existing only in Yves' copies of unwritten books. > Vessels don't regenerate. They are created by Superiors (or by celestials > in Limbo). But the Malakite can be waiting in line to beg his > Archangel for a new vessel right after he finds himself a little > light-headed next to his Heart. > Can I take it that the character points spent on a Vessel are like those spent on a servant, that it's the type of Vessel the Superior assigns to you by default? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:34:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles > > Celestial Song of Form. *Much* easier than talking a Superior out > of a spare vessel... O;> > Celestial Form only lasts minutes, though. It's really only practicable for a very short period of time. > > > >There is a Song in Heaven & Hell that might cover that, I think. > >Unfortunately, I don't *own* H&H yet, and can't remember the name. > >It allows Celestials and Humans to mate, though... > > That's in the APG, and doing *that* is a good way to get bounced > to the same status as the Grigori, if you're an angel... > Can I take it that Pachadim do it the whole time? I think they should be notified. > >It is an excellent way to get spies on the Other Side. Just kill a Soldier > >of Lucifer (they deserve to die) then create an angel who looks and acts > >just like him. Of course, the angel will surely Fall if he acts too good > >but hey, that4s life! > > This is what Elohim are for. So long as they act only because the > pose requires it.... Ruthless, manipulative. Will kill those on > their own side if necessary. Cold, cold things. > The great thing about the situation is, if they do Fall, they mightn't realise that anything has changed, and continue working for you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:39:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... > >>>It is an excellent way to get spies on the Other Side. Just kill a > Soldier of Lucifer (they deserve to die) then create an angel who looks and > acts just like him. Of course, the angel will surely Fall if he acts too > good but hey, that4s life!<<< > > > Well, there are other ways to try that scam (like the Celestial Song of > Form). But a supposed Soldier of Hell hanging around demons will have a > hard time not being discovered as a celestial eventually. > There's a simple way to get around that. Don't learn any Songs. That way you won't ever be tempted to use them. Put it all into skills instead. That way the only thing they can get suspicious of is your incredible shooting, tracking, fighting, dodging, driving, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:43:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble > > >> Balseraph of Lust > > > >You have thought this out, haven't you? > > What? No, I just ran through the book and found the goodies. Why, > what's wrong with it? :) > Nothing. It's just that it resembles the description of the Kiss in V:tM so much it's uncanny. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:00:35 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Losing your wings? > Bah, that's nothing. I manipulated my Shedite friend into nuking a > small French town. (Baal wanted it, mine is not to reason why.) > Can you say million-point disturbance? My GM reckons the echoes should > last about a year, after which he'll be able to get back to Earth > without Celestial perceptions picking him up as the cause of the > disturbance. Err, if you manipulated your Shedite friend into nuking it, wouldnt he have caused the disturbance.. Not you.. Anyways, that reminds me.. What kinda disturbance would Mitrah cause if her little scheme to destroy the Catacombs goes through and she DOES destroy her tether and cause a huge earthquake?? - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:21:20 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... >> Well, there are other ways to try that scam (like the Celestial Song of >> Form). But a supposed Soldier of Hell hanging around demons will have a >> hard time not being discovered as a celestial eventually. >> >There's a simple way to get around that. Don't learn any Songs. That way >you won't ever be tempted to use them. Put it all into skills instead. >That way the only thing they can get suspicious of is your incredible >shooting, tracking, fighting, dodging, driving, etc. Might be a bit tricky when the seraph asks you who your boss is, or the mercurian decides to resonate you though ;) Unless of course you were recruited by a balseraph who told you it was an undercover angel (hey, it could happen...) jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:37:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Losing your wings? > > Bah, that's nothing. I manipulated my Shedite friend into nuking a > > small French town. (Baal wanted it, mine is not to reason why.) > > Can you say million-point disturbance? My GM reckons the echoes should > > last about a year, after which he'll be able to get back to Earth > > without Celestial perceptions picking him up as the cause of the > > disturbance. > > Err, if you manipulated your Shedite friend into nuking it, wouldnt > he have caused the disturbance.. Not you.. > Exactly, it's him the echoes track. It was really easy to do it as well. > > Anyways, that reminds me.. What kinda disturbance would Mitrah cause > if her little scheme to destroy the Catacombs goes through and she > DOES destroy her tether and cause a huge earthquake?? > Who is Mitrah? Which catacombs? Pretty substantial. One sincerely hopes she doesn't plan to do it herself. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:54:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... > >> Well, there are other ways to try that scam (like the Celestial Song of > >> Form). But a supposed Soldier of Hell hanging around demons will have a > >> hard time not being discovered as a celestial eventually. > >> > >There's a simple way to get around that. Don't learn any Songs. That way > >you won't ever be tempted to use them. Put it all into skills instead. > >That way the only thing they can get suspicious of is your incredible > >shooting, tracking, fighting, dodging, driving, etc. > > Might be a bit tricky when the seraph asks you who your boss is, or the > mercurian decides to resonate you though ;) I thought we were talking about angels infiltrating the Soldiers of Hell. You want the seraph not to kill you, surely. Unless of course you were > recruited by a balseraph who told you it was an undercover angel (hey, it > could happen...) > I think there's some confusion here. Infiltrating angels doesn't work that well if they start using resonances on you. Sooner or later even Habbalah and Balseraphs will be caught by a Seraph who gets a check digit of 5 or 6. Malakites should catch onto demons pretty quickly too, as should Mercurians. (The most ignoble thing she has done this week is to spare that pathetic weakling in order to avoid a disturbance. Hobbies...stealing Essence.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:57:56 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... On Jan 12, 4:55pm, d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Of Vessels and Roles... > Oh joy, theft-of-identity, Celestial style. I will note that bumping > > somebody off to take on their identity is definitely a demonic tactic, > > unless the human in question is such a lowlife that even angels will > > figure he deserves to die rather than have a chance at redemption. > It is an excellent way to get spies on the Other Side. Just kill a Soldier > of Lucifer (they deserve to die) then create an angel who looks and acts > just like him. Of course, the angel will surely Fall if he acts too good > but hey, thatīs life! You could always convince a Soldier of God to undergo a little 'elective surgery' to look like the dead Soldier. But the biggest problem is that when a Soldier dies, they probably show up at the gates of Hell and are eventually found out by their ultimate Superior. Hmmmm! How's this for a story seed. A Soldier of is wasted in a fight, but it's known that he has valuable information. So there's a big search on in Hell to find this guy. This can go a variety of ways, but I would take the tack that he managed to snag the attention of a servitor of Lilith while in soul-processing queue in Hell and offered to make a deal. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:12:44 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Losing your wings? > > Anyways, that reminds me.. What kinda disturbance would Mitrah > > cause if her little scheme to destroy the Catacombs goes through and > > she DOES destroy her tether and cause a huge earthquake?? > Who is Mitrah? Which catacombs? Mitrah is a Kyriotate of David who watches after the Enchanted Rock tether in Austin, Texas (Night Music, great book by the way).. The Catacombs are a Tether of Saminga manned by Fex, a Djinn of Death :) He's found this way to make very very poweful zombi's that decompose quicker than normal but are more powerful... > Pretty substantial. One sincerely hopes she doesn't plan to do it > herself. She's building a nuclear bomb, with Uranium given to her, indirectly, by Fex himself. Its useless Uranium, but she's made a plant that filters out the bad stuff and gives her the good stuff--- which she can use to build a bomb.. That would flood the catacombs.. What she dosnt know, is that it could very well cause a huge earthquake and destroy Enchanted Rock too. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:27:45 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Questions, apparently not frequently asked On Jan 9, 6:57pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Questions, apparently not frequently asked > At 6:42 PM -0500 1/8/98, York H. Dobyns wrote: > >I have some questions about In Nomine that weren't addressed by the FAQ > >that arrives when one subscribes to this list. > > Karakash, put in a link to the errata pages, eh? It's already _in_ the FAQ (right at the top!) I'm modifying the plaintext version so that the URL is listed there as well. > >3.) Why does it cost more, during character design (and, by implication, > >when spending points to improve a character in the course of play) to own > >a Talisman that grants you a skill, or a Relic that grants you a Song, > >than it costs simply to know the skill or Song yourself? > > Because you can loan your Talisman out, you can store extra essence > in your Relic to fuel the Song (useful when you're empty!), and > some other things like that. You can also, if you've put your > relic in a handy shape like a sword or something, know exactly > where you left it (on a decent Perception roll) when you need it. > > And a Talisman can boost your skill above 6. Which is a very scary > thing. Everything she said. =) Also, with the advent of the Liber Reliquarum, there are all _sorts_ of neat things you can do to modify the cost/abilities of those artifacts. > >5.) The discussion on Numinous Corpus songs mentions that two attacks, > >e.g. one with claws and one with hooves, can be performed in the same > >round, provided that one is based on Strength and the other on Agility. > >Nowhere else, in either the combat section or the skills section, is the > >notion of attacks based on Agility discussed; Fighting skill is > >identified as based on Strength. Can this be clarified? > > I thought that was in the FAQ. Perhaps it's the errata. Karakash? > (Fighting is based on Strength. Some other skills, such as Small > Weapon, are based on Precision. This may be what's meant here...) Yup, that's it. The actual entry doesn't mention 'Claws' at all. What it says is that you can attack with those neat Feet and also with your hands, at the same time. So the Strength attack would be with the Feet (fighting skill) and the Precision/Agility attack would be with the hands (Throwing, Small Weapon, etc.) Non-Canon alert: If some GM out there wanted to allow a new type of physical attack based on agility (say a martial kick or something), then you could have the Feet be Agility-based and let your hands do something Strength based. True story: Someone very high up in SJG was reading that Song to mean that you can attack with BOTH feet and BOTH hands at the same time, for a total of FOUR attacks! I won't mention his/her name (mostly because he/she has the power to squash my In Nomine position like a 2-Force Snotling) but it made for an interesting adventure, let me tell you! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #562 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.