From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 20 00:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19061 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:52:49 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA05378 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:55:00 -0600 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:55:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199801200655.AAA05378@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #576 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 20 1998 Volume 01 : Number 576 In this digest: RE: IN> New Archangel: Sophia Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament IN> Campaign Seed - A Definite Lack of Faith [VERY long] IN> Interventions IN> Loss of Superior IN> New Archangel: Sophia Re: IN> Interventions IN> Aliens Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Definitions, please Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide RE: IN> Happy New Year's Re: IN> Uriel Re: IN> Rapael and Oannes and Uriel- oh my! RE: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners Re: IN> Archangel Canon Fodder Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Raphael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:40:47 -0800 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: RE: IN> New Archangel: Sophia > >>>Is this official now? Or are you speculating?<<< > > See the APG. For those of us who are waiting patiently for our stores to make it available? Unless I'm mistaken a hundred percent, it says that Andrealphus was an Angel and had the word Love, but it never says that he was an Archangel. I'd be glad to be wrong. . .. steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:46:09 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament >Jesse wrote: > >> Okay why does everyone keep bad mouthing Crowley? It is really >> strange of everybody to see him as some force of evil running around. > >But he *wanted* to be bad-mouthed. I mean, when you go around >styling yourself "the Great Beast" and signing letters "666," and >such, you are clearly not cultivating a reputation as a pillar of >righteousness. > >Earl An eighty year old friend of mine also met the man while she was at an archaeological dig looking for Camelot. She says that Crowley was the biggest idiot that she ever had the misfortune to envounter. She's an Oxford graduate with a masters in occult studies. I think this qualifies for a good reason that I choose to bad mouth Uncle Al. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:46:09 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament >As to Jesus being one more revolutionary, the gospel stories seem to >depict someone trying to stay *out* of the political forum for much of >his career, who then makes an about-face and seems to deliberately court >disaster by annoying the authorities. > >Earl Jesus was the martyr of the cause, a tool for higher being (say, oh, Janus). The apostles then became the revolutionaries. Jesus just was their figure head. Look at one of the main bases of the Roman religion: If you die poor, then poor in the after life you will be. Only an emperor can become a god. The message of Jesus: Live in the light of God, and the kingdom of Heaven is yours. He may well have said a chicken in every pot. When the nasty Romans killed him, the usual conspiracy theorists came out, "See, they don't want us to know the truth. Why do they hide the truth of the one god?" Enter the revolution. Thus, Janus overthrows the stuffy Roman government. Just a thought, Armand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:56:38 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Campaign Seed - A Definite Lack of Faith [VERY long] CAMPAIGN SEED: A DEFINITE LACK OF FAITH This is a campaign seed, not a single adventure. These are ideas to be at work as the undercurrent to the game going on, as some long term discovery for the player characters. Disclaimer: This touches on some religious issues. If you are easily offended by this sort of discussion, please delete this post now. Nothing I write is canon, replaces canon, or is to be taken as such. If you are wielding the Mighty Hammer of Canon, and searching for a place to thump, then please delete this post now. This whole thing is very rough, and sort of comes across as one big ramble. This is because it was concocted at 3:30 am and I've had exactly 3 hours of sleep before I worked for 10 hours and read hundreds of pages of technical documentation. So if something doesn't make sense, it's because I need sleep. Go ahead and use this stuff to your heart's content. Genre: In Nomine Backwards\Dark In Nomine Suggested Play Group: Angels only. Jean, Novalis, Eli, Yves suggested. Sourcebooks: Only the original In Nomine sourcebook is used in this write up. No other Archangels or history from Revelations/APG/GM Screen are present. Source of Inspiration: "The History of God" - Karen Armstrong Some of the writings of Carl Jung, Friedrich Niezsche (Beyond Good and Evil), and my Space/Time books with Newton, Leibniz and Kant. Several poems by Wordsworth and Coleridge. "I cannot love anyone if I hate myself. That is the reason why we feel so extremely uncomfortable in the presence of people who are noted for their special virtuousness, for they radiate an atmosphere of the torture they inflict on themselves. That is not a virtue but a vice. And thus, from so-called goodness, which was once really good, something has arisen which is no longer good; it has become an evasion. Nowadays any coward can make himself respectable by going to church and loving his neighbour. But it is simply an untrue state, an artificial world." - Carl Jung BACKGROUND: Five hundred years ago, Jean began to ponder. The brilliant philosophy of the Faylasufs of the Byzantine was into it's waning hour. Sufism, an interesting twist on Islam provided by Gabriel in an attempt to inject Mysticism into her wildly popular religion of Unity, had seen it's day of Masters and Islam itself was slowly falling back into warring factions of fundamentalism. Again the Diaspora had come to the Jews by way of the Chistian monarchs of Spain, and the Sephardic fled to the Ottoman empire to give rise to their new Kabbalistic beliefs and their new false Messiah. Jean carefully watched as, from the dust and destruction of the Middle Ages, Eli brought about hope in a thin sliver of Western Europe, which would soon become the Renaissance, through influencing a few key Soldiers, and this would lead directly to the Age of Reason. Although no one knew at the time. Jean watched carefully as the fears left from the Dark Ages brought about a profound change in belief, and a profound paranoia of going into the world full of temptation without their God. Changes came, Satan bloomed in the imaginations of humans, horrors unimaginable had their day, and the Church began to fracture, more under the hand of John Calvin then Martin Luther. Copernicus discovered the old Ptolemaic model of the universe was found wanting, and Galileo underwent the Inquisition for verifying it. Mankind was no longer the center of the universe. The New World was discovered. Protestantism spread. As the 17th century was entered, the old fears were giving way to new ideas. It started with Jean's Soldier Newton, really, and his flurry of letters to Leibniz. The Divine Mechanik was the first true philosophical inspiration since Gnostic times to explain God not as above the Universe, but of it, even if the reasoning turned out to be flawed. Jean watched Mankind's first move to scientifically explain the Symphony in a rational, objective, and mathematical manner. This, Jean thought, was something he could work with. He could imagine a universe where Mankid revelled in objectivity, where they were free of the subjective evils which drove so many to the Pit. Jean concocted an experiment, in secret, without speaking to any of the other Archangels. What if he could replace Mankind's old beliefs in God and, more importantly, Satan and Hell, with objective scientific thought? Like the Ethereals before them, was the existance of the demonic hordes run entirely on the power of belief? Would Hell shrink away without the conscious fear of mankind and eternal damnation? Would Heaven become as powerful as it once was before the Fall, full of pure, uncensored thought? All he would need to do is prod things along with a few well-placed Soldiers to find out. And that he did. It was a viable experiment. At first, Man did away with the beliefs in the Angels and Devils. Then Man did away with beliefs in the Saints. Finally, Man did away with God himself. They no longer needing the objective overlord of a Big Brother, the philosophers claimed that God was no more then a construct of a collective consciousness who felt they needed some sort of justification in their universe (Hegel). God was no longer necessary to the human experience, when Science could be so much better. God was replaced with modern technology, mysticism replaced with psychiatry, poetry replaced with gadgets and toys. God, they announced victoriously, was dead. Technology supplanted God. Belief waned and twisted and changed. Jean won. But at what cost? PRESENT DAY [Campaign Time] OVERVIEW: I dreamed I saw St. Augustine, Alive as you or me, Tearing through these quarters In the utmost misery, With a blanket underneath his arm And a coat of solid gold, Searching for the very souls Whom already have been sold. - I dreamed I saw St. Augustine Bob Dylan Modern day religion is filled with everything from wild alien cults to the modern Methodist giving methodical lip service on Sundays. Everywhere is the technology that Jean sought to employ in service. God is not as necessary as it once was. What has Jean become? Has he become a new God? Has he become a new force in the Universe? Does he even know? Either way, the heavens shrink into obscurity. The souls no longer come as they once did. The angels are no longer as busy. The upper heavens are closing. God no longer speaks to his creatures, if he still in fact lives. Hell, on the other hand, is bustling with activity, as it grows and expands in new directions. Without the stringent morals, with the new looser ethics of the modern day, the lack of caring in the worth of human life twisted to become reflected in the society created out of Jean's beautiful objectivity. Hell's Principalities fill at an unprecidented rate. There are more demons then ever before, and they pour upon the earth to take advantage of a willing Humanity. The nightmares of the 15th and 16th centuries have taken root, coming to fruition. Hell is taking advantage of the loss of faith. Hell is winning. POLITICS Jean and Vapula Vapula is more then just the Demon Prince of Technology. He is the warped version of Jean, an imperfect reflection of Jean's perfect objectivity. Where Jean brings forth pure science and reflection, Vapula brings fear and uncertaintly. Where Jean brings joy in learning, Vapula brings greed and want. Be it confusing VCR instructions, broken software, or a faulty oil cap, Vapula brings a disconcerting uncertainty in the age of technology, slowly undermining mankind's belief in its ability and its science. It is inescapable, mankind Needs its toys, and is married to its trinkets and machines. Without, mankind would need to revert to it's old crutch, and that just wouldn't work. That would be unacceptable. Jean would like nothing more then to destroy Vapula and his agents. He sees him as a mar on existance, a fault in the cosmos. He stands in the way of mankind attaining it's final perfection by sowing doubt and discord in Jean's perfect flawless creations. Jean and Eli The Archangel of Creation, more then any of the others, have stood in the way of Jean's progress. While Jean felt the need to obliterate God, Eli felt the need to preserve him. Through his Soldier William Wordsworth he spoke of the receptive frame of mind that resulted in the ecstatic vision of reality: that blesed mood In which the burthen of the mystery, In which the heavy and the weary weight Of all this unintelligible world, Is lightened: that serene and blesed mood In which the affections gently lead us on, Until, the breadth of this corporeal frame And even the motion of our human blood Almost suspended, we are laid asleep In body, and become a living soul: While, with an eye made quiet by the power Of harmony, and the deep power of joy, We see into the life of things. From the inception of the Renaissance, Eli has believed that the purely analytic, the meddling intellect, could interfere with that sort of intuition. People don't need books and theories. All that was required was a certain insight into the subjective experience, although this was not necessarily ill-informed or or self-indulgent. A truth, Eli spoke through Keats, was not a truth until it was "felt upon the pulse and carried alive into the heart by passion". Nonetheless, Eli does not agree with Jean. While he is appreciative of his helpful hand in steering society, and thus helping to bring about new forms of Art and Artistic expression, Eli just can't help but to think that something is just wrong. He did the best he could, until he left heaven instead of risking a confrontation. Eli is on earth, among the masses, trying to continue the spirit of inspiration through art and experience. He hopes to counter the acts of Jean by rekinding the spirit of God among a few of Mankind through art and ecstacy. Jean and Novalis It's hard to say if Novalis really approves. Where there are people now, there are bulldozers and concrete and steel. Where distances once was a barrier between hostile peoples, communication has made war possible. Yet people are living longer, hydroponics creates more food for the needy, health care is far improved, people are more comfortable. It's undeniable, there has been progress in improving the lives of humans through Jean's scientific advances. Is it Vapula or Jean who makes things worse for the Earth? Oil spills, toxic waste, pollution, all obviously a side product of Vapula's technology, but how much as life become simpler, less full of mystery through Jean's? She opposes them both, in her own quiet way. Maybe working as a dam on their advances, sometimes sending servitors to chain themselves to toxic waste dumps in protest, she works in silence. Malphas and Communism It is doubtful that Marx's original conception of the utopian society in the Communist Manifesto looked anything like Stalin's USSR or Mao's Red China. But in the hands of Malphas, anything is possible. The drive for workers to keep up the production in a society run by industry was more important then the lack of classism that was originally attempted. Five year plans. Gulags. Classism. Deportation. Genocide. Cold War. Nuclear buildups. Global fear. No one loved the post-WWII world more then Malphas. Born out of the industrial society, the scientific inventions and eglitarian thought brought forth a slave state that persists toward the end of the twentieth century. It forbids religion, it dismisses the concept of God, it only drives the industrial machine that it has created. It is like a belief black hole, where all that exists is the State and the politics within the State. Malphas loves Communism. He couldn't have imagined a better invention of Mankind. Malphas and Religion The Protestants hate the Catholics enough that they try to kill each other. The Mormons are considered a cult. Muslims plan terrorist attacks on Jews. Wasn't there a time when we could all just get along? Maybe it was Malphas's touch which led toward secular fundamentalism. But the world is divided now. It's not obvious anymore that there's only just one God, and people have a different way of approaching it. Now people die for their views on God, just as much as any.... but people are more willing to kill, too. Abortion? Just kill the doctor, set up protests, send fear, and factionalize the Church. Is it Euthenasia? Kill the doctors, fix the votes... and factionalize, factionalize, factionalize. The news call it the 'issues which divide the nation'. Malphas calls it his Word. All in the name of the enlightened world. God is forgotten, belief is just a memory. None of it matters, as long as the right faction tries win, and that there is always a wrong faction to keep it from doing so. Andrealphus, Nybbas, and the Electronic Religion (aka the Electric Boogalo) In the rise of technology and objective thought came the Media, the electronic information machines which set the opinions, deliver the information, and raise the hemlines. In the age of technology, it's Nybbas who is giving rise to a new religion, believed through the opinions set forth through his Media machine. Sex sells. Violence sells. Politics sells. It all sells a new sort of moralless religion, built on the backs of Jean's servitors. Electromagnetism was developed through the pursuit of objective discovery, but the Media put the vacuum tube to good use. Jean's servitors perfected the printing press methods to distribute information and promote literacy, but Nybbas and Andrealphus crank out pornography magazines. The new religion comes on the back of technical marvels. Jean developes the TCP/IP protocol through the Defense Department (which is buggy, but I digress), and the new Religon puts up pornography in huge amounts on the Web, in mail, on Usenet. Morals? Ethics? Emulating Christ? Who needs all that when you can see 10,000 porn sites for $12.99 a month! A religion of sex and violence, a worship of the ideals of Hell, an electronic religion built on the work of an Archangel. Isn't the universe grand? ADVENTURE SEEDS These are some ideas just bouncing around in my head of actual adventures to run in this world. Yves and Kronos (Originally generated by Marc Renouf) The idea was presented to me: send some much elder angels to find out what the players believe is truth. Take them aside, and alternate identical Seraph of Destiny and Balseraph of Fate. Give the players, in private and in conversation with their 'superior' different versions of the truth, and try to explain to them what they are learning. One will have a different spin on it then the other, but the players should believe they are talking to the same person. Say, you have the Seraph of Destiny who gives correct information that pertains mostly to the state of Jean, while the Balseraph of Fate (with Seraph resonance, go figure) gives information which is either incorrect or pertains to Vapula and his works. As in: Seraph of Destiny: "The television is a medium for Nybbas to mind control the masses. They should be shut off to allow humans to think again." Balseraph of Fate: "The television is a medium for information and entertainment. We only need to put ratings on the shows and the viewers will know what content to watch." This strikes me as something that would be sprinkled liberally through the campaign. The Believer One idea for a prolonged quest or a longer adventure seed is to task the players via Yves with a simple mission: Find one true believer. This is not as simple as it sounds, since the GM can set up several places in which there is none to be found. The obvious places should not contain a believer. The Churches and Synagogues will be empty. The convents should be empty. A few suggestions are: * Franciscan Monks in someplace remote, like Central America. * A Nun in a convent in Europe. * A small conclaive of Jesuits. * A group of small children in a playground (this is the one I like). The idea is to bring back a true believer to Yves, to facilitate the opening of the heavens above. Give the players a superior angel to report to, who keep sending them on missions. Sort of like JOB: A Comedy of Justice - send them to Baptist revivals, to Fundamentalist rallies, to Catholic Masses, just to find the one true believer in God. CONCLUSION I am now half awake and almost dead. :) I think this is just the icing on the top - I find Superior politics to be of major importance over the long haul and the most subtle of all undercurrents to a game. Comments are welcome. Most of this is just a major brain dump. Go forth, read, use, toss out with the delete and expunge. Have fun. Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Applications Programmer III and Balseraph of the Game Desktop Applications Team - Medical Center Information Technology Current Quote: "Never look directly at the sun through a Pattern Lens." -- the LintKing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:40:13 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Interventions On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > True enough, although I just make up stuff when an intervention happens. > Randomness is fun. Randomness is happy. On that subject, anyone wanna share some interventions they've come up with on the spot? I've had a few good ones...my general rule is to make them as big as possible without taking over the scene. When the demonic PCs were infiltrating a hospital, the Shedite (in the body of a man strapped to a gurney) tried jumping into the nurse wheeling him away. The nurse rolled a 111 to resist. I decided that his golden cross was an old relic (unknown to him) given to him by his grandmother. The Shedite bounced HARD back into the host body, where I ruled he was stuck for at least an hour, and took 3d6 Soul damage. Later on in the hospital, a diversion was badly needed. The Calabite decided to explode the overhead sprinklers. Rolled a 111 (bummer). I let the sprinklers explode, but the water had been blessed by the Lord; everyone took 2d6 Body damage and 1d6 Soul damage while they fled the room screaming. On the upshot, the players have been much lucker during the current adventure (Feast of Blades). The Habbalite of Malphas (with the Polarize attunement) was being held hostage by Huzrael's gang while the Shedite was trying to free him and the Balseraph was sneaking into a sniper position. The Habby began Polarizing the four dumb ones, one pairing at a time. The Shedite was kept alive at one point solely because two of the idiots were arguing over who should shoot him (Habby got a *good* roll)...but the prize was the infernal intervention between the pair near the elevator! They began arguing, bitching, and screaming at each other (ignoring Huzrael's orders even), and it ended with the two of them fatally shooting each other! It was *very* Resivoir Dogs style... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:32:03 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Loss of Superior >>>When a superior ,such as Raphael or Legion or Uriel, is removed from play and leaves behind servitors, can they continue to follow their supperiors word? I know that the Tsayadim (Marches, 5) are a special case. They continued to purify at the cost of becoming outcasts. But could theses servitors not continue to follow their AA word, keep thier attunement, and remain within the ranks of Heaven?<<< Most likely, if someone continues to follow a lost Superior's Word, one gets to keep that Superior's attunements, but cannot gain new ones, nor perform his Rites. The vast majority of these Servitors (who are effectively Outcasts or Renegades until they join an active Superior) will eventually give up and go over to someone else. The Tsayadim are stubborn. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:32:01 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> New Archangel: Sophia >>>Though you have to admit, there is more than a bit of overlap between the words.<<< Certainly. A lot of Words could conceivably fall under the jurisdiction of more than one Superior. >>>For those of us who are waiting patiently for our stores to make it available?<<< The APG, p. 9: "Yes," replied Andrealphus, dark angel of Love, later to be Demon Prince of Lust.... (It doesn't actually state he was an Archangel here, but I am pretty sure he is so referred elsewhere. Then again, the aforementioned passage refers to a point in time immediately after the Fall, and the exact divisions between Archangels and lesser Word-bounds may not have been quite so solid then.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:22:46 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Interventions > On that subject, anyone wanna share some interventions they've come up > with on the spot? I've had a few good ones..my general rule is to > make them as big as possible without taking over the scene. My general attitude is to let the thing be pretty major. More major than a normal 'critical success' would be in another game-- to make up for the fact that their soo rare.. Anyways.. Here are afew things that have happened-- My own character, a Cherubim of Creation had just busted through a heavy iron door (he's very strong ) when tracing down one of his attunements-- a pretty redhead named Jennifer who, as it happened, was carrying the baby of somebody that Eli wanted to /be borne/.. I was warned that things were going to get ugly, but I messed up, and.. loe and behold, a calabim got his hand on the girl.. I was chasing after them, and thinking god that he hadnt just used his ressonance on them. He was just about to get away, when I pulled out my gun desperate to take one final shot (figuring that id rather take the dissonance if I missed and killed her, than let her fall into the hands of the diabolicals if they DIDNT want to just kill her) at them.. I rolled the dice.. and got a 111 :) The bullet turned to a wand of light, which engulfed them both. The demon was discorporated and sent screaming back to hell -1 force. The woman was lowered gently to the ground by a reliever who just suddenly appeared. The reliever told me that I was permanetly 'relieved' and that he would be taking over as protector of the child.. *poof* my attunement vanished-- and so did both the reliever and the woman.. I voluntarily took a note of dissonance, cause id basically failed in my divine nature of protecting the girl.. - -- The only other cool intervention that I can remember is in the same campaign. One of the other players was badly injured, and nobody who had the C song of healing had any essence to heal him. One of the flower angels (my girlfriend, btw) proceeded to bind him up and use her knowledge of first aid. She rolled a 666. The GM stopped for a second. We saw a grin on his face for abit, he took the player out of the room for abit. They came back after a minunte, and the GM said that everything was fine and all the wounds had been healed. Afew days later we found out what had happened when the person being 'healed' managed to convince his superior to let him get another vessel. (he showed up on Jeans door, thinkin he'd died in the course of duty).. Its times like that, two people claiming to be the same guy, that you wish you had a Seraph around . . . ohhhhh, there is one other time that ive got to mention.. The bad guy demons were trying to summon their superior. They rolled a 111 and ended up summoning Michael instead. A very angry michael. A very angry michael with a very big, very sharp axe.. Times like that when its good to be an angel.. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:00:18 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: IN> Aliens On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Armand wrote: > What does canon think on aliens anyway? Me, I don't know canon. Just ask my players. I'll guess anyway, though. > The first questions are they real? Sure. Why not? But define "real". In my campaign I'm using a plot I got off the In Nomine Collection, in which the Greys are etherial spirits working hand-in-hand with Hell (there's more to the plot, but I don't feel like explaining it. Go look at it. It's a good one.). They aren't "real" in the corporeal sense, any more than angels, but they exist. > 2) How do they fit in the "God created everything" universe? Well, God obviously created a lot of space, and a lot of planets. Why would He bother going to all that work and then only populate one planet? In my campaign, Earth isn't even remotly the first world God created and it won't be the last. I avoid the sticky question "what are the Archangels of other planets like?" by saying that the angels of earth work exclusivly on earth; if they want a transfer then they are out of the game. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:58:23 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament At 12:17 PM -0500 1/19/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Jesse wrote: > >> Okay why does everyone keep bad mouthing Crowley? It is really >> strange of everybody to see him as some force of evil running around. > >But he *wanted* to be bad-mouthed. I mean, when you go around >styling yourself "the Great Beast" and signing letters "666," and >such, you are clearly not cultivating a reputation as a pillar of >righteousness. I look at AC like I do Marilyn Manson. Once you get over the shock value, it's really rather boring. I don't see him as the Great Beast so much as the Great Poser. And a Great Way to Really Send Your Parents Up the Wall. The late Anton LeVay (sp?) is in the same category. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:53:56 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes >> 3) Plot broadly and never expect it all to happen. I found plotting too >> tight will not give you flexibility to keep the game, long term, on track. >> >No, you should have one predetermined track which the players aren't >allowed to wander off without suffering terminal boredom. Really. (I hope I'm not playing the straight man here but...) I agree with Em. Plot broadly. You're players are going to come up with logical problem-solving approaches that you never *dreamed* of, and there's less retro-active explanation involved in letting them go with it than in creating a reason why it won't work. There are many different GM styles, but I look at running a game like collaborating on a story. If you've already decided the options for the characters, or even greatly limited their scope of action, it isn't much of a collaboration. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:40:30 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Definitions, please >Lewis points out that the medieval mind loved to tidy up >and classify, but could never quite decide what to do with fairies. >They had many different theories about them and never settled on one. >These theories included: > > - they are a class of angel > - they are a class of demon > - they are a class of neutral celestial (in IN terms) > - they are a class of the dead (a sort of ghost or undead) > - they are a separate species of rational animal, possibly unfallen Quite right. Some explanations held that they were the jews who had rejected Christ, and were cursed to become fay. Why that was such a curse, I couldn't make out. The Protestants, of course, held that any spirit that wasn't God or an angel was a demon. Even the ghost of Samuel, summoned by the witch of Endor for King Saul, is called a demon disguised as Samuel by most protestants. In ancient celtic folklore, there is a strong association between the dead and the fay. The two are never equivalent, but they overlap to such a degree that it's hard to mark the boundaries. I recently purchased The Marches, and am considering running a fay campaign. Those guys are in quite a double bind. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:13:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Player's Guide At 7:03 AM -0500 1/16/98, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Actually, the famous Choir members was one of my favorite bits, and I >hope it survives to the Infernals Guide.<<< > >Mine too, and it will. But I certainly hope we don't make too much of a habit of it later. > >-David (oops, now my Habbalite alter-ego is manifesting...) [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:42:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Happy New Year's At 3:22 AM -0500 1/18/98, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >AA Beth writes: >>Hoppy Newt Year to y'all, too. > >AHHHHH!!!!! She said NEWT!!!! Annual Bouncy Amphibian? [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:34:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Uriel At 8:56 AM -0800 1/16/98, Querent wrote: >Your whole catholic church idea was cute too, but too much of a stretch. It's not a "idea" -- it's what Derek said he'd used that date to coincide with. (And if you're doing sarcasm, put in the blighted smilies. I'm sick. I can't decipher sarcasm.) >---David Edelstein wrote: >> In 745 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church declared that Uriel was no >longer an >> Archangel and labeled him a Saint instead. [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:22:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rapael and Oannes and Uriel- oh my! At 2:54 AM -0500 1/16/98, Ni Ke Hsin wrote: > Here's a related question: Why 745? I've searched my knowledge of >Western history and folklore for something important relating to that year, >and I can't come up with anything. (If it's too obvious, let me down easy, >okay?) What they said about that being the date that Uriel was downgraded to saint. (I am so glad that I don't have to talk for this list. My throat is a Tether to Sheol or something.) [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:41:54 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners At 2:49 AM -0500 1/18/98, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >>The Bal bursts into a makeup room where Tryphena is having her hair and >>face done. In the corner, Zaccur is flipping through, you guessed it, a >>chainsaw catalog -- or maybe a copy of _PlayShedite_, it's hard to tell. > >Oh God, you didn't. Oh, for the love of... you did. First "plucking" >and now -- PLAYSHEDITE?! That's me, Demon Princess Beth... (Hey, where do you think anime tentacle-porn comes from...?) (Well, okay, those inventive little humans. But it's still popular...) [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:18:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Canon Fodder At 12:35 PM +0000 1/16/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >> >> "Flowers" refers not just to plants, but the healing properties of plants, >> and the peace and beauty flowers represent. >> >I'm reminded of the bit in the Jurassic Park novel where whatshername the >botanist is musing on the utter inaccuracy of this perception. Flowers >are just a different means of taking part in the great evolutionary >struggle, and plants are damned violent, and often poisonous. Novalis, ruthlessly kind... O;> [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:21:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes At 1:37 PM +0000 1/16/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >> >> Deep, man. It's a good thing that I couldn't write down his on the spot >> generated fable on "Why it's good to burn sinners". I think I was just >> too afraid. >> >Here's a thought experiment. Attempt to tell the difference between a >Habbalah and any random non-Mercurian Servitor of Gabriel without knowing >who they're victimising, or using special powers to find out which is which. Lock them up for a while and see if they either Fall or start generating Discord? >How about a Habbalah of Beleth and a Malakite of Gabriel? Nooooooo thankyou. Heh. (And then there's the seriously deluded Habbalite of Fire, no, really, punishing those who deserve it, weak, cruel... Um. Mistress? Why are you looking at me like that? I'm just trying to serve your Word....) [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:33:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Raphael At 8:27 AM -0800 1/16/98, Querent wrote: >If you happen to follow canon? Canon *was* that Raph is a Cherub. >Then canon *became* Raph is an Elohite. Given that canon is at least >this maleable, I would like to see it turned BACK! Original, "off the cuff" response was Cherub. This was changed to Elohite after due and careful consideration by Those Who Know Things, and the Cherub reference was supposed to be fixed by the editor. Derek agreed to this; I discussed this with him. This slip of paper fell behind the desk, and the APG went out with the wrong information. (There are a *lot* of things that get fixed by editors... Surely you don't want to see everything exactly as it was written the very first time? Even by Derek; the guy's good, but even *he* says "a Shedim" half the time, drat him.) Something I did for the IPG, I double-checked, and found *that* slip of paper had been eaten by something, too -- last minute fix got done, thank somebody. Otherwise, you might have seen K.K. in canon, along with Kobal Kamera's Malakim Blooper Reels. (Instead, you'll see "I'm Going To Hell," prizewinning racehorse, Lilim of Mammon and Demon of Gambling Debts.) Another slip-by in the APG is the "Seraph of Dictionaries," which contradicted Heaven and Hell (the Ofanite of Dictionaries). As you can see, there was a certain amount of detail-tweaking that *should* have been fixed before the blessed thing went out the blessed door. Now, will you read my blessed posts and just trust me that we had some good and sufficient reasons to make that call, that it *needs* to be errated, and that it was a Demon of Typos who left the Cherub in? Or do I have to send my Calabim and Habbalah after you? [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #576 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.