From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jan 22 19:53:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14787 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:53:41 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA06439 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:54:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:54:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199801230154.TAA06439@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #586 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 586 In this digest: Re: IN>Lying Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> Silly rules hacks. Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> Re: Supplements I'd Like to See Re: Djinn (Re: IN> Remnants) Re: IN> Andre Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> Buddhist In Nomine Re: IN> By Any Other Name (was Re: Gluttony vs. Greed) Re: IN> Re: Gluttony vs greed Re: IN> Seven Re: IN> Gluttony vs. Greed Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> Raphael Re: IN> Gluttony vs. Greed IN> IN Fluff. Dope Pope Re: IN> Andre Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> Yrth Re: IN> A few scattered questions IN> DP of Nitpicking (Re: Raphael) Re: IN> Vessel bits ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:01:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN>Lying > According to Kevin Walsh: > > > Actually, it'd probably need a special attunement, because otherwise it's > > dissonant. Plus it's very scary. Maybe Kobal should be able to give that > > attunement to his Balseraphs instead of whatever rite they get? > > Hmm, a good disclaimer just doesn't do any good these days.... > I didn't see the disclaimer until later, or maybe I forgot about it, since I was replying to a reply. > But, I don't seem to understand why it's dissonant. A > balseraph only gets a dissonant note when he gets caught in one > of his lies or resisted in a major way, right? So if you do > this lying/not lying trick with something that the lie-ee can't > prove, or doesn't know proper stuff about, you should be safe. > > Example: > Seraph: How did you find out I was an angel? > Truth: Doug told me > Balseraph decides: I saw your halo! > Balseraph uses lying skill: Doug told me. > Seraph reads lies and gets: *He's lying* > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > And this "catching" of the lie shouldn't count for dissonance, because > it's a skill, NOT a resonance. > I would tend to rule that the Balseraph has caught himself out. If the Balseraph knows he's lying, I reckon it's just as bad. And there's another point, sort of. It says "Once a Balseraph makes his resonance roll, the Detect Lies skill will always show him to be truthful." But presumably the Balseraph didn't use his resonance to convince the Seraph that Doug told him, so the Detect Lies skill wouldn't necessarily say the Balseraph was lying. (Oh God, not another grey area around Balseraphs.) > Unless the Seraph can go ask Doug: > Hey Doug, did you tell Binky I was an angel? > > He can't catch the balseraph in his lie. No dissonance. > > I'm still not saying this should be tried (unless it's a Kobal > attunement - then you bought it or earned it fair and square) > because Balseraphs aren't supposed to have the lying skill. > But isn't it sound mechanically? > I doubt it. It says under Dissonance "A Balseraph would no more lie to you - from his perspective - than his Heavenly counterpart would." That seems fairly clear to me. > > > > It's not as bad as a Habbalah who's actually right about why she's in hell, > > though. (Yes, I have created such an NPC.) > > > > Do tell, was it an Elohite masquerading, or was it an Elohite > that God forced to Fall? Or what? Now I'm interested..... > A Disclaimer is warranted. Some of this stuff sounds remarkably like what Maya has written about Caliah (though Maya is, IMO, a better writer than I am, and it seems unlikely that Yves intervented in Caliah's case). It's entirely coincidental, though. All this stuff was in my head long before last Tuesday, which was when I read the Caliah stuff first. But read Caliah, if you have any interest in Habbalah at all. And here's the url: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/ And follow the links. And this is long. This story gets longer with each successive draft. The character is called Tahrea, a Habbalah of Yves in service to Malphas. No. Yves forced her to Fall, or rather, placed her in a position where he knew she would fall. (You should have predicted from my earlier comments about how Yves was scary in my world. He most certainly is the ultimate Elohite in my game.) In a sense, it makes no difference. This particular Habbalah views Yves as the next thing to God. The story revolves around a guy named Adrian Kennedy, a talented man, though apparently without the ability to become a Soldier. Adrian was charming, friendly, fit and physically talented. He went to a military camp, and did well. He excelled in physical violence of all kinds. And some personality quirks of his began to surface. Put plainly, he was a psychopath. Maybe he wasn't naturally thus. Maybe Servitors of Kronos or Beleth messed with his head. Maybe he was ridden by a Shed. Or then again, maybe it would have happened anyway. Adrian became undisciplined, and was finally given a dishonourable discharge. At this point, Yves assigned an Elohite named Askelon to bring him to his Destiny, though Yves wouldn't say precisely what that was, and Askelon lacked the ability to see it. Askelon found Adrian without too many problems, and used his resonance on him fairly early on in their first conversation. Never again. Askelon was repulsed by what he felt; a stew of malevolence and anger such as he had never perceived in an ordinary human being, kept under no sort of control at all. Askelon reasoned to himself that he would just have to find a way to prevent his Fate (he'd almost instantly lost hope about any sort of Destiny) without using his resonance. Surely it would be harder to steer him when having to spend so much effort hiding his revulsion. Needless to remark, it didn't work. It transpired that Adrian had more physical prowess than Askelon, maybe not inherently, but certainly in terms of training. That was certainly no way to restrain his...escapades. Askelon had always been more comfortable manipulating others anyway, and thought that he could counsel him, based on his past experience. He didn't exactly _need_ his resonance for that, did he? Time proved Askelon wrong. Adrian got on reasonably well with him (Askelon certainly didn't want to provoke him into a fight.), but he was annoyed by Askelon's attempts to pry into his private life. In desperation, Askelon used his attunement to convince Adrian that his path would lead to his own destruction. Adrian believed, but he didn't care. During all this time, Yves had not provided any guidance, and Askelon had been afraid to ask any. And something snapped inside Askelon at that point. No longer could he countenance the existence of this monster. Knowing he could do nothing to Askelon himself, and not wishing word to get back to any other Celestials, he hired a mortal hit man. At that precise moment, his Heart cracked. Unfortunately for Askelon, the hit man failed in his mission. Worse than failed, in fact. Before he died a very painful death, he revealed to Adrian who had sent him after Adrian. It pleased Adrian very much to give Askelon the most unpleasant death possible when he caught up with him. Askelon was stuck in Limbo, with many months before him to reflect on his errors. With his already-warped perspective, he concluded that his going to Limbo was a punishment from Yves for his failure, and that Yves would most likely punish him again if he found him again. However, he feared consantly that Yves would find some way to reach him there, and decided to leave as soon as he had built the strongest Vessel he could, and others besides. Brooding in the emptiness of Limbo, Askelon's soul was warped by ever-more colourful Discord, but then finally, his fear of staying outgrew his fear of entering the Corporeal Realm, and he went. It was a matter of months before Askelon was picked up by Servitors of the Game. They would almost certainly have slaughtered him outright, except that he begged on his knees to be allowed to serve Hell rather than be killed. Soon afterwards, the Habbalah in the group noticed that Askelon had just become one of his own Choir. After relaying that information to his fellow Servitors, they decided to put him up for auction. It was suspected that the end result would be the dispersal of his Forces across the Symphony, but anyone that pathetic deserved it in any case. As it turned out, no one except Kronos and Malphas showed any interest at all, and Askelon shied away from Kronos. He was still one of Yves' Servitors, after all, no matter that he had hidden from him as hard as he could. So it was into Malphas' service that he went. Malphas, of course, didn't want a Servitor in this condition, so he did some favours for Askelon. Malphas purged most of his Discord, though he left the suspicion at a managable level, and kept the fear entirely intact. And the price? A name change, to Tahrea, and also all of those vessels that Askelon had so patiently constructed were consigned to Oblivion. Instead he was given a new one, had a number of memories dumped in his head, and was sent down to Earth in the form of Lucinda Grey, a journalism student noted for her beauty far more than her indifferent writing talent. Tahrea agreed to this readily while in his presence, but once away from him, she came to the conclusion that she had been wrong about Malphas, and that he had set her up. She knew better than to let on, though, so she played her part quietly and well, always making conflict flare around her, but never letting it touch her. She didn't neglect her more mundane duties either, and gradually developed a unique writing style, and a set of favoured policies which looked impressive and concerned for the welfare of others at first sight, but on much closer inspection could be seen to contain the seeds of disaster. This change in Lucinda startled some people who had known her, but in so many ways she behaved in the same way, so eventually it was forgotten about. Dramatic political conversions are hardly unknown among journalists, at any rate. (OOC: Not in Ireland, anyway. Conor Cruise O'Brien and Eoghan Harris are probably the prime examples.) Tahrea didn't waste her time arranging protection, either. She reasoned that her true master would hardly take her back if she didn't redeem her failure, and hindsight made her angry over the weak way in which she had dealt with Adrian before. And Adrian's combat abilities would make him a useful protector as well. Maybe she would have found some other way of arranging protection, but one thing stayed her. She had been given a great gift; the ability to mold others around her. Yves would hardly have given it to her for no reason. Restraining Adrian properly had to be its intended use, and if she misused a gift that Yves had given her, the consequences would be dire. Adrian was still haunting the same places that he had before, and he was certainly attracted to her before she used her resonance at all. It was easy to bring him back to her apartment, and when the desire mounted in him to do violence, she removed it. As simple as that. And almost ten years later, the situation with Adrian appears better than ever. (It would appear that in the right hands, the Habbalah resonance can be therapeutic. It's just that it usually isn't in those hands.) Adrian is mellower these days, although his entire life has been warped around "Lucy". His devotion to her resembles that of the most guilt-ridden Cherub, and she in turn appears to love him. Of course, she doesn't love him, but her revulsion and contempt has eased over the years and, though she would never admit it, his presence has become something of a comfort. Malphas has yet to make any overt moves, and he appeared to approve of her decision to retain Adrian, but she still constantly worries about how he pushes her forward in her journalistic career. Already she has become a local hate figure in certain quarters, and she has received her fair share of death-threats and letter bombs. She also remembers that Yves, who she secretly continues to serve, didn't appreciate the bitter hatreds that she had stirred up around her so endemically, and recently she has begun to moderate these activities, though her articles remain as stridently divisive as ever. And now the bit about her being right. She may be right about Malphas setting her up, but if so, it's a very long-term thing. It would certainly cause a massive uproar if she was assassinated, which would resound to his benefit. But she's doing fine as it is. If her recent lack of enthusiasm proves chronic, however... The Game may be onto her. It's unreasonable to suggest that no one knows what Adrian was like before she got her hands on him (and probably still would be if she didn't keep her eye on him every second of the day). One fine day, someone is going to wonder about a Punisher helping someone. Tahrea's beliefs about Yves. He placed her where she was so she could look after Adrian and prevent him killing those people. This is true, as far as it goes. Sad though it is, this is probably the closest Adrian is going to get to anything resembling a destiny. Maybe he won't go to Hell if Tahrea keeps this up. Maybe. (Alternatively, Adrian does have some sort of great destiny. A great destiny would be warranted, in my opinion, considering all the harm he's done.) Yves gave her her "gift" so she could help Adrian. Undoubtedly true. Given Adrian's psychological profile, there was no other way short of killing to stop his career of serial murder/rape, etc. Yves will take notice of her good work one day and forgive her. Sort of true. Yves isn't going to have her stay a Habbalah if he can help it. But it isn't a matter of forgiving her. Yves understands her motivations perfectly, and went to some trouble to put her in a position where she could hardly help but act as she did. What Tahrea missed: Very little of this was for Adrian's benefit at all. It is, in fact, part of her own destiny. Askelon had great potential, but despite his resonance, he had little understanding of how people really worked. He depended on it overmuch, and was lost without it. (Alternatively, he was on the road to Hell in any event, and Yves helped arrange events so that his Fall would do the least damage, and possibly be aid him in reaching his Destiny.) Should Tahrea be redeemed, it is likely that she will be far wiser in the future, and do a lot of good to redress the harm she has done these past 10 years. (Fill in your interpretation of her Destiny hear. Mine is the Word of Healing the Mind, but I don't have any Calabim to send after you if you don't like the idea.) PS My interpretation of the Cowardly Discord has been shaped to an incredible extent by Stephen Donaldson's Gap Series. One of the main characters, Angus Thermopyle (a Djinn of Belial if ever I saw one, right down to the attunement), "never counted the cost of what he did to survive. Precisely because he was so afraid of dying, he took quantities of stimulants that could kill him". I'm paraphrasing, because I don't have the book with me, but faced with a choice between certain death and almost certain death, he chose almost certain death, rather than sitting there like an animal caught in the headlights of an oncoming truck. Many of Tahrea's actions, especially after the Fall, are because of the intersection of the Paranoia and Cowardly Discords. Her actions make sense to me (sort of). And that informs my view of the Yves as well. Destiny and Fate are tricky things, and Yves has to balance an infinite number of possible future destinies, not all of which coincide with one another. Some of them are going to get broken, at least if and until the world achieves its final Destiny. In any event, predicting the future isn't exact, even for Yves. There was always the chance that Askelon would manage to help Adrian and avoid Falling, and there would have been no need for me to write any of this up. Any adventure involving her should involve Seraphs of Michael, because it's so funny. In this case, having Infernal Interventions on a Seraph's resonance roll providing the truth (carefully edited, with perhaps some minor alterations) is appropriate. And other Elohim, of course. Yves and Gabriel are good candidates for this. (Watch the Elohite of Gabriel squirm about which course causes the most dissonance. She still enjoys inflicting mental anguish, she's just afraid of Yves' reaction.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:01:16 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > > All the celestials in my game eat. Not as often as humans, perhaps, but > > they rarely go more than a few days without food--it's just easier to > > debate about a strategy over a big pile of pizza. And yes, they have to > > 'go', later...I let 'em hold it for as long as they like. OBTW, I'd say > > the corpse would decay, and would not necessarily be *perfect*. > > The Malakim of Eli in my group goes around reminding other angels to eat. > Sure, they don't _need to eat, but they miss out on so much flavour... The Malakim of Eli in my group does about the same thing. He also hogs all the pretzels in the bar while sharking people at pool. The other Malakim of Michael in my group just plays a lot of Doom in his downtime, and is trying to talk our Elohim of Jean into programming him a patch that will let him wave around the heads of the various cyberdemons he kills in the game. Rich Gant Cyberdemon? Must try that out... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:07:08 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Brandon Quina wrote: > If he suspected the target might be an angel, there would be other > ways to see if he was or not. Fire an uzi at full-auto at him, if > he's more or less unhurt then he is a celestial or a mummy or some > kind of supernatural creature. > > Of course, that wouldnt work if the celestial didnt have that many > body points.. I have always assumed that vessel that loses X body points looks just as badly hurt as a human that loses X body points. I just rule that the vessels can keep functioning a *lot* longer. It gets pretty nasty looking at times, but it helps disguise the fact that vessels aren't human. (Within reason, that is.) Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:09:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Silly rules hacks. > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > You want a competition to see who can build the munchiest character? I > > think I'll pass. But 12 Will Habbalah of Hardcore is always a good > > starting point. > > Okay, I've seen this three times now...and don't have Night Music. > Someone's gotta clue me in. What do Habbalah of Furfur get?? > I'm quoting from memory here, but I believe they add their _total forces_ to the check digit of successful resonance rolls for all emotions except Love. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:11:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits > > Actually, the argument was not that you could imprison a celestial, > > but rather imprisoning them would be a way to prove they are > > celestial. > > Leaving the Corporeal realm is one way of proving the vessel is > > celestial. If anything, the argument is further substantiated here. > > Im sorry, but if I was a scientist and my subject disappeared 'he > ascended to heaven' would be the last thing I would assume happened. > Rather, I would assume that he found a way to open the door, close > it behind him, and then left without being spotted. > > > 'He was an angel' just dosnt hold any weight.. > Unless the room has been videotaped, and subsequent analysis demonstrates that the videotapes haven't been tampered with. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:23:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: Supplements I'd Like to See > > I'm less interested in Superiors and 'how to play Choir + Superior' - > I can think about that myself and don't need anyone to tell me how > to do it. What I'd like to see is > What interests me is where Dissonance conditions have been modified. What effect does something like that have on someone, to know that they are fundamentally different from those of the same Choir who serve a different Superior? Just how badly do Elohim of Dreams suffer from their resonance being continually active in the Marches? Why has there been an increase in Renegades from Beleth's forces? How do Elohim of Gabriel, in particular, walk the thin line between punishment that is necessary and punishment that is merely spiteful? Or is that covered by the bit that says that Elohim of Gabriel do not take pleasure from the punishment they inflict? What is it like to have been a demon once, and to be an angel? Or the reverse? What is left behind as a result of those experiences? Yes, I can make this up myself for a particular character, but it's hard, and takes a lot out of me. I'd like ideas put in front of me about stuff like this, which I can take or leave as I like. > 1) Historical supplements dealing with one particular period; the > Inquisition, the Crusades. How were Celestials involved? Ideas for > playing adventures then. I hope, of course, that most affairs were > done by humans (none of this 'everyone important in history must have > been a celestial/Soldier'). > Interesting. Researched reasonably well, one would hope. Better than what you'd learn in primary school in that country, one would hope. > 2) Books like Ars Magica's (or GURPS) Mythic Places, but of religiously > significant locales within the Judeo-Islamic-Christian world. More > artifacts like in the soon-to-be Liber Reliquarum. Items to build > stories around. > New artifacts annoy me more than new Songs, in some ways. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:53:56 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: Djinn (Re: IN> Remnants) >which I don't use in my own campaign. (I wrote them, but I don't agree with >them -- long story.) Do tell, if you don't mind. Off-list if you prefer. -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:01:05 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Andre >LILIM > >Andre's Lilim are his favorite servitors. He asked for a full page in >which to express their virtues (it all boils down to "if you *ever* get a >chance with one, take it.") They add their Corporeal Forces to any >seduction attempt, and anyone they have consensual sex with >*automatically* owes them a Geas/2. > >A little like Haagenti's, but that doesn't bother me one whit. I rather like this one to. Not sure if I'll change or not. Would you happen to have the link to the alternate Princes? I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:19:17 +1100 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Chris Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits >> > The vessels are very, very close to normal >> > bodies. It still hasn't been decided if there are >> > very subtle differences that can be detected by >> > intense scientific analysis. >> >> On a related note: do vessels have navels? >> >Every instinct in my mind is telling me that you know the answer to this >already, but here goes P. 48, sidebar entitled Celestial Vessels, end of >second paragraph, main rulebook... >"Also, celestially-generated vessels have navels. You don't think they'd >overlook that, do you?" I think the mythic tread would be a prettier colour without navels. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:23:58 +1100 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Chris Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name >So is ramming #2 pencil up one's nose while singing the Star Spangled >Banner. It doesn't mean it needs to be done. Ahh, but a pencil up each nostril, underpants over the head and saying 'wibble' do. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:27:02 +1100 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Chris Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name >> > It's traditional. >> So is ramming #2 pencil up one's nose while singing the Star Spangled >> Banner. It doesn't mean it needs to be done. > >Hey! I only did that once, and was cleared of all charges! You >cant prove anything... But the polaroids came out a treat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:13 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Buddhist In Nomine > I was curious if there would be any interest on the list in this > project. It would be long (25+ installments) and I probably will > not finish it before the end of February. If there is interest I > will probably print it here on the list. If not, I may post it on > the web or publish it. Hell, go for it. It sounds awful work intensive, but if you're up to it, I'm up to reading it... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:13 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name (was Re: Gluttony vs. Greed) > That reminds me; Magog's Prince of Cruelty in Final Trumpet, but > when'll we get Gog? Don't tell me someone's broken up the act... Okay, you'll have to explain this one, because my mind just isn't getting the reference. > Though why I'm bothering to defend the lifestyle choice of someone > who chooses to look like a fanged piece of toejam I'll never know. Every so often, somebody says a corker...that one got a chuckle out of me... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:13 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Re: Gluttony vs greed > >(Maybe a Habbalah is imposing a desire to believe > >everything people say on me.) > > I was thinking that balseraphs can be pretty nasty on their own but > they get a lot nastier if teamed up with a habbalah ('you're feeling > really gullible today'), The closest I'd allow to that is "you're feeling very trusting". People don't feel gullible unless they've already been tricked, and if they feel gullible, they're probably more likely to resist being tricked... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Seven > Faith - Michael ("Who is like God?") You know, I have read that translation plenty of times, but I've always wondered - is the question inherent in the name Michael, or is it just taken as such by the translators? If it's added in the translation, then I have even more proof for my "God has the word of Conflict" idea. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Gluttony vs. Greed > Gluttony is buying 300 packs of the latest CCG expansion just > because you want to make sure you have every single card. Greed is > buying 300 packs of the latest CCG expansion so you can put all the > rare ones in plastic sleeves, hold onto them, and sell them a couple > of years later at ridiculous prices to Gluttons who want to complete > their collections. So Greed is wanting money and power. Gluttony is wanting things. That makes sense, and does explain why Haagenti hasn't eaten Mammon yet - their words compliment each other, and Mammon still has a lot of power... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name > >Another Demon Prince? Is that absolutely necessary? *blink* > > I totally agree. Like, how many people are using any of the > superiors who didn't appear in the original sourcebook? I will be using Mammon (albiet, in preference to Haagenti), and I may be using Litheroy and Alaemon. I know Litheroy is somewhat common - common enough for the dreaded curse of Ophanim of Litheroy to rear it's head not once, but twice. And people though Seraphim needed keepers... > As far as the expanded superior write-ups go, they're not at all > useful if its a superior you feel you have pretty well defined in > your own game; its if the superior was one you had trouble getting a > handle on that you can really use the ideas. I particularly liked the Asmodeus and Kronos writeups, personally - Asmodeus, because I couldn't get a good handle on him, but Kronos simply because it has some interesting ideas. > I do hope Kobal's final prank is one of the things that never gets > defined in canon tho. Definately - it's a plot hook that just won't quit...until you saddle it with canon. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Raphael > Brandon, > who wouldnt mind serving the Demon Princess of Nitpicking You *want* to sign up with a superior who will find problems with every thing you do? No wonder you're a Habbalah... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Gluttony vs. Greed > >Of course, the big problem with the strategy is that the Lili has to > >obtain those cards herself, which is difficult indeed. > > Not reallt. Just grab a Soilder of Hell, take a seller outside and > *wham* *pow* *zap!* You now have all of his cards. Or better yet, get a big old geas on a seller. If the seller is a nerd, it shouldn't be *too* tough (anybody who needs more info, go bug a lilim of Andre...). Then invoke that Geas and get his cards. Hell, if you're willing to go the long route, you could be his girlfriend for a while. Most player/sellers would be happy to support a girlfriend that likes Magic, even if she "doesn't know how to trade all that well" (the standard excuse for a Geas trade). Then, when you want out, invoke the Geas for as many of his cards as you feel like trying for. Or just swipe them in the middle of the night. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:00:20 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: IN> IN Fluff. Dope Pope As a Roamin' Catholic (little Catholic humor there) I was surfing the Web and came across this site. Funny Funny Funny. Fantically Anti-Laurence Homepage. http://people.delphi.com/hammond_in/rome/vatican/popedope.html - -Jesse remember that, folks: trust your government, or skinheads will find you and kill you... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:27:52 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Andre At 3:01 PM -0500 1/22/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > >> The reason I modelled the attunements on Lust was because I was looking >> for powerful attunements, and Lust's attunements were the munchiest I'd seen. > >I never liked his Lilim attunement. It seemed so...inappropriate. The >idea is that his Lilim are his favorite servitors, raw creatures of >seduction and lust, and they get the Elohim of Yves attunement? It seemed >like a cop out...like Derek couldn't think of a suitably good one, so he >just gave them a very useful one that was bland enough to fit in anywhere. Oh, but the *results*... "Oh, he needs me to do *this*, and touch him *there*, and lick *here*, and let's let this need build up and build up and he really *needs* a little more pressure *there* but he'll need it even more if I keep going..." [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:31:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking At 12:32 PM +0000 1/22/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: [...] >Anyway, the real reason I didn't make any description of Beth is that she >could so easily nitpick it, and send her Calabim and Habbalah after me >for my gross incompetence. Wise, very wise. [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:26:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yrth At 2:02 PM -0500 1/22/98, Brandon Quina wrote: >Stupid Question, possibly.. > > > >But how would the GURPS Fantasy world of Yrth fit into an In Nomine >game?? Has anyone considered running an IN game on Yrth?? I did a crossover adventure thingy that's now on the INC, but that was a "celestials caught in the Banestorm" kind of thing, rather than rearranging the history and whatnot... [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:36:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A few scattered questions At 10:48 PM -0500 1/20/98, Raoul Duke wrote: [...] >> As soon as they get out of Trauma, the Hearted can use any spare vessels >> they had to go back down (presumably to the spot they "ascended" from -- >> where their other vessel was killed). Malakim can do this immediately. >> (Eeep!) If they're in Limbo, they have to use Essence to generate >> a new vessel, escape in that, and swap to any other preferred vessels >> afterwards. (Someone in Limbo a lot may have a mouse vessel or six >> kicking around.) >Well, see, the reason I asked was that in the Corp Death section in the >base book, it says something like, "if the celestial has another vessel >to go to *right then*, he cheats death." Body Bags, mostly. It's not clear, no. [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:31:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> DP of Nitpicking (Re: Raphael) At 10:20 AM -0500 1/21/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >>>> Something I did for the IPG, I double-checked, and found *that* >>>> slip of paper had been eaten by something, too -- last minute >>>> fix got done, thank somebody. Otherwise, you might have seen >>>> K.K. in canon, along with Kobal Kamera's Malakim Blooper Reels. >>>> (Instead, you'll see "I'm Going To Hell," prizewinning racehorse, >>>> Lilim of Mammon and Demon of Gambling Debts.) > >>>Why would this have necessarily been a bad thing? The horse does sound >>>fun tho. >> >>SJ thought K.K. was a little silly for canon In Nomine. Maybe some >>other book... > >I don't know. I think K. K. has her deep moments. She's sort of like the >entire alt.buddha.short.fat.guy newsgroup - she's sort of deep and silly >at the same time. That's scary... I didn't design her to be deep... She's just turning out that way. Not enough angst... >> Ah, but with my Line Editor hat on, I become the >>Demon Princess of Nitpicking. Djinn, of course. (And very good >>friends -- in as much as Djinn have friends -- with Asmodeus. >>He does the Game, and Demon Princess Beth makes sure the rules >>are only inconsistant when he wants them that way...) > >Aaaaaaaaaaah but I have PLANS for that hat. Many plans, varied and >multicolored. And they are all equally... pleasant. > >- Em, grinnin' like a Balseraph loon Yeah, yeah, I *know* you want that hat. No way. Mine. My hat. MINE! At 11:46 AM -0500 1/21/98, Brandon Quina wrote: >> Ah, but with my Line Editor hat on, I become the >> Demon Princess of Nitpicking. Djinn, of course. (And very good >> friends -- in as much as Djinn have friends -- with Asmodeus. >> He does the Game, and Demon Princess Beth makes sure the rules >> are only inconsistant when he wants them that way...) > >Hmmm, what kinda Attunements do you hand out to Habbaalah, and >where do I sign up?? > > >Brandon, >who wouldnt mind serving the Demon Princess of Nitpicking Hmmmmm! Servitors! Well, I'd do the writeup, but someone else did first. Hm. I'll have to check it and see if it's right... At 6:00 PM +0000 1/21/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >Compulsive Nitpicker: >This power costs 1 Essence, and allows a demon to imprint any trivial >correction upon a person's psyche. The victim may make a Will roll to >resist his urges, but if he fails, he'll have no goal except to satisfy >his desire to harp on about that nit, for a number of hours equal to the >demon's total Forces. Note that this attunement does not work upon >females, as it specifies "he" in the description. This also applies to >all other powers granted by Beth. Nor can Habbalah, Soldiers or Undead buy >any power which specifies that a demon uses it. After all, Habbalah are >angels. Yeeeessssss. I like it. >Nitpick of Death > This power permits a demon (but not a Habbalah, as noted above), by Habbalite. };> [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:52:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits At 9:47 AM -0800 1/21/98, Querent wrote: [...] Beth takes off the Line Editor hat and sits on it. >A: WHAT DOES AN AUTOPSY SHOW? Anything? With no need to eat or >drink, is any waste produced? In our games, it's been assumed that if the celestial *does* consume anything in any noticable quantity, it will be excreted normally. > Would a Celestial's corpse be noticably >clean and devoid of any waste or imperfections? Possibily... Probably depends on how the crafter of the vessel was feeling at the time... >Does a Celestial corpse decay? I think so... >B: DO CELESTIALS GET TIRED? They never need sleep, do they need to >rest? If a Celestial walks down the road, does he ever have to stop? >(other than to avoid suspicion) If the Celestial is actually exerting >himself (e.g. chasing someone on foot, lifting a heavy object, etc...) >does he get fatigued, or can he be pushed to his limits indefinitely? We've been figuring that a combo of Strength and vessel level dictates stamina. A celestial can do something "non-pushing" forever if he wants. Exerting himself... No mechanics, this is just how we handle it. (Usually when discussing a Lilim with Body by Andre and her likely stamina...) >C: DO CELESTIALS SUFFER ILL EFFECTS FROM HEAT (OR THE LACK OF HEAT)? >(I know intense heat or cold will hurt them, I'm referring to ambient >heat in given environments, not blowtorches and liquid oxygen.) Do >Celestials ever sweat? I know they *can* sweat, but if one didn't >think about it, would they? Probably. >Will a Celestial ever suffer from >dehydration as the water in his body tries to evaporate? Would it >even evaporate? Will a Celestial freeze to death or sustain >hypothermia? What if he's walking around the arctic in a T-shirt and >shorts for a month? In the arctic, he freezes -- but until it gets to *really* damaging extremes of temperature, the celestial is fine. Possibly uncomfortable, but fine. Or so we've been playing it. >D: DO THE CELESTIALS HAVE DNA IN THEIR CELLS? Can a Celestial be >cloned? Would the clone be a Celestial vessel? If so, would it >mature to the vessel's state and then cease aging, or would it not >develop at all? Would the clone be a human? If so, would the human >be ordinary, or would it have some of the divine as well? (e.g. >soldier material) We're still thinking about this... It's currently a GM call... >E: DO CELESTIALS SHED CELLS? They don't age...do their cells? Do >they shed skin and hair cells? If not, then bacteria will have >nothing to feed on, and they will never have body odor. Does oxygen >decay the cells of a vessel as it does other organics? If so, without >eating or drinking, do these cells get replenished, or does the vessel >waste away? GM calls... [running a fever after 3 days on panels at a SF Con...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #586 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.