From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jan 31 16:38:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01102 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:38:02 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA27488 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:32:59 -0600 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:32:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199801312232.QAA27488@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #605 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 605 In this digest: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) IN> Liar's Paradox (Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty) Re: IN> Relic IN> SJGames - most respected company Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) IN> Circle of Valor Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) IN> Lair's Paradox IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] IN> Dmitri (was Circle of Valor) IN> Question about the Marches Re: IN> Intervention stuff Re: IN> In Nomine: Hindu Tradition Re: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] Re: IN> Dmitri (was Circle of Valor) Re: IN> In Nomine: Hinduism and Zoroastrianism IN> In Nomine movie trailer IN> Re: IN History Re: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] Re: IN> In Nomine movie trailer Re: IN> In Nomine movie trailer Re: IN> Lair's Paradox Re: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:12:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) At 9:35 AM -0500 1/30/98, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Jan 29, 2:35pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 8:30 AM -0500 1/29/98, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >>>> Nitpicking occures in so many more areas, and is so much more >>>> insideous...) >>> ^^^^^^^^^ >>> 'insidious' >>> -john 'Demon Prince of Rules Lawyers' karakash- >> >> But you're using one of my rites.... I never said I could spell, >>though. I'm Nitpicking, not Spelling. > > <*grins*> Ah, but even though your Word isn't >spelling, me _pointing out_ the misspelling is, indeed, >nitpicking. [...] > This could lead to a very ugly situation >at times. The demon of misspelling could be causing his usual >problems and because of your word, your minions would >have to dutifully point out each and every one. Fights >between demons can be mighty mean. ;) Hmmm... Point. There's a Demon of Misspelling? Hm. Servitors, seek him out and drag him hither! That Word should be under my control! At 12:43 PM -0500 1/30/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >All I know is, at this rate, Beth is going to generate so much essence she >might explode like the aforementioned Balseraph Bomb. > >*BOOM* That's what being a Superior is for. You don't get turned into a BalBomb. - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:10:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Liar's Paradox (Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty) At 11:44 AM -0500 1/30/98, York H. Dobyns wrote: >(Incidentally -- does a Seraph generate dissonance by speaking the >Liar's Paradox, i.e. "This statement is false"? What about a Balseraph? >Can this not-true not-false assertion be framed in the angelic tongue?) In my own games, I'd say... Maybe -- it depends on if they've figured out that "words don't always mean what they say". Another Maybe for the Bal. And no. (Ahhhhh! No simple paradoxes in angelic! Best arguement for it I can think of!) I think that's the sort of thing that most (Bal)Seraphim would rather eat live rats than say, though. At 12:22 PM -0500 1/30/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >[York:] >>(Incidentally -- does a Seraph generate dissonance by speaking the >>Liar's Paradox, i.e. "This statement is false"? > >I would say no -- the statement is meta-false. If a seraph tried to say >this, I'd probably give him the Dizziness Discord.... Or the Migrane one? >> What about a Balseraph? > >Elizabeth and I were speculating on this one time. Our notion was that >Vapula got one of Kronos' Balseraphs with the Seraph resonance to say >this, trying to create a perpetual motion machine to generate Essence. >Unfortunately, the poor Bal generated so much Essence he exploded -- the >first known Balseraph Bomb. Now most Bals know better than to try.... Ah, right, I'd forgotten that. Yes, exactly. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:11:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Relic At 1:46 PM -0500 1/30/98, Jesse wrote: >So are we going to see the Holy Hand Gernade of Antioch in the Liberuim >Requirum? That would be potential copyright infringement. You'll have to use Balseraph Bombs instead... - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:05:59 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: IN> SJGames - most respected company Just FYI... Those of you who read rec.games.frp.misc may have seen the thread, "Which companies do you respect?" Well, at the last total vote count that I saw, Steve Jackson Games won, with 26 votes. The closest competitor was Chaosium, with 21. Three big reasons why they won, it seemed: * Professionalism was mentioned a number of times. * Good sourcebooks, mostly GURPS-related, that can be used with anything. And the biggest one - * Accessibility. It's so easy to talk to the employees, writers, etc. Congratulations for those of you who help make SJGames so respected! SeanMike - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:06:20 -0600 (CST) From: Bolie Williams IV Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > This could lead to a very ugly situation > >at times. The demon of misspelling could be causing his usual > >problems and because of your word, your minions would > >have to dutifully point out each and every one. Fights > >between demons can be mighty mean. ;) > > Hmmm... Point. There's a Demon of Misspelling? Hm. Servitors, seek > him out and drag him hither! That Word should be under my control! Shouldn't this be the Demon of Mispelling? Bolie IV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bolie Williams IV bolie@io.com http://www.io.com/~bolie/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:39:51 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: IN> Circle of Valor The question of angelic sewing circles having come up lately, I thought I would send this out. - --------------- The Circle of Valor - -------- This group was started by a Malakite [a Malakite social club? Is that a Paradox or an Oxymoron?] and is generally composed of those who have fought [implied: killed--you know Malakim and their Oaths] Demons on the Celestial plane. The Circle also has a few non-Malakim in it, mainly from the more militant Words--War, Stone, Fire, and Sword for the most part, especially War and Sword. And yes, these angels _do_ constitute Hell's Most Wanted: Dead, not alive List, for obvious reasons. The Valorians cross-train together, keep up on the latest demonic plots that have been exposed, and let their hair down with folks who can be counted to on to cover their backs. The AAs let the group continue without reprimand because it helps to improve the quality of their warriors AND because it makes a handy back-channel of communication for passing word to another Superiour through safe and reliable messengers. - --------------- The Go-go Gang - ------- Since Man has been racing against others, there have been angels who also have felt "the need.......the need for speed". Primarily made up of Ofanites, the GgG has set some speed records that would make the SR-71 Blackbird retire in shame to its hangar and pour sugar in its gastanks. Two restrictions on the competition: 1] no Cel. Song of Motion; and 2] no Lightning Ofanim Attunement, though Jean's Ofanim are fighting this in the Rules Committee right now. To join, all you have to do is impress the others, mostly Ofanim, with your speed and, more importantly, your Need to Speed *g* [good luck--you'll need it, trying to impress these folks!]. They are said to be waiting for Mario Andretti to die, waiting to show him the "True" speed records, but the rumor mill has it that Yves has forbidden this, fearing lest a human enroute to the Upper Heavens should lose Heart and descend to Hell, their greatest human corporeal accomplishments worthless next to the accomplishments of Heaven's Servitors. Though an Ofan of Janus holds the current LA to NYC speed record, there is a peregrine falcon-vesseled Ofan of Jordi who is planning to mount a challenge. Most of these folks can be found in the stands at Indianapolis on Memorial Day, which constitutes an informal con for the GgG. [why Go-goes? these are Angels, *not* [Infernal] Speed Demons! *g*] Any other "angelic sewing circles"? Of course! But _you_ will have to write _them_ up. *g*. tom t., mandarin's butterfly to James the Stone Malakim, who is NOT a Go-go Ganger. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:37:31 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) > Hmmm... Point. There's a Demon of Misspelling? Hm. Servitors, seek > him out and drag him hither! That Word should be under my control! Brandon, in his shiny new poodle vessel, arrives in the Corporeal Plane hot on the trail of this . . . Demon of Misspelling. Three times, he nearly corners the calabite. Three times the Calabite escapes. He endures the pricks of his constant compainion everytime the Calabite escapes, but continues to bravely go foreward seeking the demon. He tries diplomacy. He tries combat. He even tries bribery. But the vicious word bound is too smart for him, and before you know it Brandon is stuck captured by strange humans with nets who take him to a place called the 'Pound.' Brandon goes celestial quickly, and thus escapes and is back upon the trial. This time, however, it is /personal/! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:46:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) At 2:06 PM -0600 1/30/98, Bolie Williams IV wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> > This could lead to a very ugly situation >> >at times. The demon of misspelling could be causing his usual >> >problems and because of your word, your minions would >> >have to dutifully point out each and every one. Fights >> >between demons can be mighty mean. ;) >> >> Hmmm... Point. There's a Demon of Misspelling? Hm. Servitors, seek >> him out and drag him hither! That Word should be under my control! > >Shouldn't this be the Demon of Mispelling? That's one of the servitors of the Demon of Misspelling. - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:56:41 +0100 (MET) From: David Skogsberg Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > If you're lucky, I won't show up and engage your Malakite in a heated > discussion on the offensive attacks one can take up with a gratuitous fish > tie. "What a *hideous* tie!" "I only wear it as a weapon against my enemies." -- Some strange movie I saw once. cd - -- d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se | cd skogsberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:02:15 +0100 (MET) From: David Skogsberg Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF! (Re: Nitpicking Beth) On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Bolie Williams IV wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > This could lead to a very ugly situation > > >at times. The demon of misspelling could be causing his usual > > >problems and because of your word, your minions would > > >have to dutifully point out each and every one. Fights > > >between demons can be mighty mean. ;) > > > > Hmmm... Point. There's a Demon of Misspelling? Hm. Servitors, seek > > him out and drag him hither! That Word should be under my control! > > Shouldn't this be the Demon of Mispelling? ITYM "Demon of Mipselling" - and, as Beth said, he's in turn a Servant of the Demon of Misspelling. cd Ofanite of Archives, currently on a sugar and caffeine buzzzzzzzzzzz... - -- d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se | cd skogsberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:51:33 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Lair's Paradox >(Incidentally -- does a Seraph generate dissonance by speaking the >Liar's Paradox, i.e. "This statement is false"? What about a Balseraph? >Can this not-true not-false assertion be framed in the angelic tongue?) I'd give out a note of dissonance to either of them on the theory that neither God nor Lucifer likes a smartass... -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:07:43 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] G'day. Reading the threads on IN History (and some earlier threads about dinosaurs in IN) jogged my memory, and I chased down this theory... "Did God Destroy the Dinosaurs", a religious pamphlet by Damien Royce & Jason Zolot. Basic theory - Dinosaurs were _evil_, created by Satan to ruin Paradise. Not only were the dinosaurs evil monsters, but many demons took on dinosaur form in order to run amok. Satan himself was "a gigantic multi-headed winged sea dragon". The authors rely on some fairly wacky interpretations of various religions, including Christainity, Zoroastarism, unnamed 'pagan' religions and Gnostic scripture. Their science is a bit fuzzy - apparently Satan was a master of genetic engineering. How did the dinosaurs die? Well, God looked upon Satan's work, cracked His knuckles and proceeded to destroy the lot of them. Being a merciful god, he let a few jungles survive (yes, Satan created jungles), as well as some minor dino-forms like crocodiles & iguanas. Then God took on Satan in a fistfight. Yep, He chased the Bad Guy through the Solar System, kicking his butt on the Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt. Craters? Oh ye of little faith - those are the impacts of God and Satan's punchup! Satan is still around (God is too merciful to finish him off), and still working his evil genetic science. Whet else has he created? All the nasty plants and animals - poison ivy, venomous snakes, wolves - as well as viruses and bacteria. But he's still trying to recapture his old glory, and bring back the dinosaurs - witness recent experiments in Loch Ness... The pamphlet ends by bemoaning the fact that our newfound environmentalist mindset is preventing us from fighting Satan more directly - by wiping out all the evil animals right now (crocodiles, sharks, wolves etc), and clearing/levelling all jungle areas. All the above info came from 'Kooks', a big book on wacky beliefs by Donna Kossy. It has some great stuff, including info on a Hollow Earth sect that I'm trying to write a play about. ObIN: Would there be an Angel of Fringe Beliefs? A Demon? Both? Who would they work for? - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Uncle Bill will never leave a will And the tumor is as big as an egg He has a mistress, she's Puerto Rican And I heard she has a wooden leg TOM WAITS, "Cemetary Polka" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:23:00 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: IN> Dmitri (was Circle of Valor) > The question of angelic sewing circles having come up lately, I > thought I would send this out. I like it. I'll probably use the Circle of Valor somewhere... > --------------- > The Go-go Gang > --------------- This reminds me of a character I thought up a while ago, who has been lurking in the back of my head. He was actually inspired by a driving excapade of mine, in which I found that while I loved driving, I absolutely lacked the Ophanim resonance for the quickest route. I did prove that my Mazda 323 has the staying power of a Clydsedale, though... Dmitri Jorgenson Ofanim Wannabe Corporeal 2 Strength 3 Agility 5 Ethereal 3 Int 3 Precision 9 Celestial 1 Will 2 Perception 2 Skills: Driving/5 Engineering/1 Knowledge(Cars)/3 Knowledge(Highways)/2 Language(Russian)/3 Language(English)/2 Songs: Corporeal Form/6 Resources: "Le Car"/5 Dmitri came to the US from the USSR when he was five, and immediately fell in love with New York, the city where he and his family lived. Millions and millions of people, action everywhere, and (most importantly) CARS. Taxi cabs or limosines, bimbo boxes or muscle cars, it made no difference; he loved them, and knew everything about them. By ten he was fixing them for a local repair shop, and by twelve he was hauled before a judge for driving without a liscence. By the time he was 17, he had a list of offenses as long as your arm: excessive use of power, reckless endangerment, and evading arrest were top sellers. Then, in one night, his entire life changed. Cruising (if going 110 mph can be called cruising) on the highways of eastern New York, he saw the familiar blue lights behind him. He started figuring out how to get away when a car blew by him, on the right, at well over 150 mph. Dmitri was, to say the least, surprised, and slowed down to normal speeds as the cruiser chased past him. The car hit a bump, flipped end over end, and crashed in a fountain of flame. His surprise turned to amazement as the driver of the car climbed effortlessly out of the vehicle and started running. Without thinking, Dmitri pulled over and picked up the driver, and sped away. The police car chased him, but with his newfound passenger directing, he quickly made it away. His passenger, Indrael, was (as Dmitri soon learned) an Ophanim of Creation in service to Wind. Indrael had found a Soldier, Dmitri had found a hero. Since then, Dmitri has faithfully served Janus. He has never gotten a speeding ticket since that fateful night, because he has never gotten caught. Part of this is because of "Le Car", a souped up Mazerati 255I with an engine stolen from the more workable of Vapula's trade, with a top speed that nears 220 mph. But most of it is because of Dmitri; while he lacks the Ophanim resonance, he more than makes up for it in skill and innate potential. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:56:25 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Question about the Marches Yes, even I can ask questions too. :) I know that when a Celestial 'sleeps', he/she/it can, with a Will roll, ascend to the Marches. I also know that, if one goes the proper routes (through Beleth's Tower, through Blandine's Tower, walking past Gabriel's Volcano) one can enter the Marches as a full Celestial. I pulled this trick when I did a a nice land war my previous session. My question is this: can a Celestial who is physically in the Marches communicate with a Celestial who ascended there via sleep? Can they talk? Can they touch? Can they smell each other? And can I get books/line numbers with the right references, oh demons of nitpicking? - - Em, trying to formulate a story to write ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:52:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Intervention stuff Ben Bose, I don't think you get this list, but if I am wrong, it is really important that you delete this post now... On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, David Wood wrote: > Quoth "Dan Ozdowski " on 1/28/98 11:48 PM... > > >As unlikely as it would seem, what if opposing interventions > >were rolled on opposing rolls? > > And I'm not sure "unlikely" is a strong enough word for it. "Improbable" > seems better -- it will only occur once every 23,328 opposed rolls. That would be *double* the probability of a PC rolling two favourable interventions in a row then? And yet it can happen. Trust me. I had to GM the result. For the second one, I decided that the PC in question, and his girlfriend, now have a vital role to play in the Destiny of the entire world and/or Symphony. They might end up redeeming Lucifer. If it all goes wrong, they could just as easily give Hell the weapons it needs to win. In any case, I have a rather cool scene to play out in a year or so's time. Spectacular enough for everyone? I admit that it was already an idea I had begun to consider, but the double intervention kind of settled my thoughts. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:06:56 -0500 From: "Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: Hindu Tradition >From: "Perry M. Lloyd" > >I'm very wary about paralleling any of the Hindu Gods with Demons. >Hinduism is not a dualistic religion, and *I* am not going to place any >of the Hindu celestial hierarchy on that side of the line. One might make the argument that the lack of a dualistic element would in fact be an argument *for* paralleling at least a few Hindu gods with demons. Otherwise, the Demons have kept an exceptionally low profile in India while the Angels haven't. Of course, that makes an interesting plot hook -- why have the Demons gone to such trouble to hide their presence in India so well that they aren't included in the local religious beliefs? But, my suggestions for the major parallels are: God (the name Yves gave to "the Symphony's awareness", a personification of the Symphony itself) -- Brahman Yves (the Destiny of the Symphony/God, who tries to preserve the Symphony) -- Vishnu Kronos (the Fate of the Symphony/God, who tries to destroy the Symphony) -- Shiva In this campaign, then, I would turn down the hostility and contrast knobs between the two sides (ie, downplay the dualism). Other Hindu deities would be represented by Demon Princes or Archangels as appropriate, and Lucifer *would not be present*. Ah, well, my $0.25 Steve, Calabite of Paperback Books, Servitor of Haagenti ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:42:22 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] > "Did God Destroy the Dinosaurs", a religious pamphlet by Damien > Royce & Jason Zolot. Basic theory - Dinosaurs were _evil_, created by > Satan to ruin Paradise. Not only were the dinosaurs evil monsters, but > many demons took on dinosaur form in order to run amok. Satan himself > was "a gigantic multi-headed winged sea dragon". I automatically buy any theory which uses the words 'run amok'. > Then God took on Satan in a fistfight. Yeah! YEAH! GOD VS. SATAN in a No Holds Barred, Steel Cage Match! A full battle royale! Only $29.95 on Pay Per View! Order yours today! > ObIN: Would there be an Angel of Fringe Beliefs? A Demon? Both? > Who would they work for? > Oooh... an Angel of Eli, a Demon of... um... Kobal? - - Em, Getting sleepy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:52:22 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Dmitri (was Circle of Valor) > Dmitri Jorgenson > Ofanim Wannabe > > > Resources: > "Le Car"/5 Ooop - mistake. Forgot the price of a corporeal artifact. Make that /2, and up engineering by one. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:37:39 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: Hinduism and Zoroastrianism From: Earl Wajenberg >Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > >> I'm very wary about paralleling any of the Hindu Gods with Demons. >> Hinduism is not a dualistic religion, and *I* am not going to place >> any of the Hindu celestial hierarchy on that side of the line. > >Okay, but there *are* Hindu demons, though they may not be as >unambiguously evil as monotheistic demons. Hey, maybe you could >do a blend of Hinduism and the oldest Zoroastrianism you can find. >I think there are a fair number of cognate god-names. Careful there -- a fairly large fraction of the Vedic deities of Hinduism descend from the same Persian gods that got turned into the demons of Zoroastrianism. For example, I'm pretty sure that Varuna, one of the most important deities of the Rg Veda, got turned into one of the chief lieutenants of Ahriman. It's not a simple transposition though; Mitra was a lieutenant of Ahura Mazda, and he ended up as a deva in Hinduism (though I'm blanking on what the name changed to). (I think there is a strong suspicion among scholars that this Mitra *also* got turned into of the mystery-cult saviors of the Roman Empire. One of the competitors to Christianity, in fact, as too much bad fiction makes tiresomely clear.) You should also be fairly clear on which chunks of Hinduism you want to use, and be aware that you are likely to be end up with a mishmash. Of course, since the same thing has been done to Christianity/Judaism/Islam in the game already, that's not too bad. Doctrine, the holy texts, ritual practice, and folk belief all have only a tenuous connection with each other, or even with themselves, often enough. (It's one of the natural consequences of having a living religion with no central organization and a strong theological tradition, but there you go.) - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:43:40 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> In Nomine movie trailer I may have got a little carried away on this one. Ah well. - --- IN NOMINE : BUFFY GOES TO IOU - ----------------------------- Narrator : There comes a time, in every girl's life, when she must face the greatest of challenges. Buffy poses with stake, flanked by Willow, Xander, and Giles, against misty background of graveyard. Narrator : University. The Pent, on a sunny day. Buffy, Willow, and Xander stand beneath an arch with the letters IOU embossed upon it, looking froshling-like and cute. Characters from previous In Nomine films mill past them, and get paid huge fees for this brief continuity appearance. Narrator : But is University ready for her? The Team, all in sports uniform, run screaming from some unknown menace on the pitch. Narrator : She's got the best of the past... Giles eyes the ArchDean, who is in her traditional white leather miniskirt, from across the table. "Madam. We appear to have very different definitions of the duties of a librarian. My definition involves being fully clothed." He twitches his glasses, nervously. Narrator : ... and the best of the future... Buffy and Xander peer into a gleaming computer lab. Buffy : "I'm worried. Willow hasn't come out of there in two days." Xander : "Should we go in there after her?" Buffy : (pauses) "Well, we could throw in a burger and some fries from a safe distance." Narrator : ... but there's trouble in the present. A blond woman explains to a dark man, in the cafeteria, "I'm a Seraph. We don't _get_ vampire bites." She rubs at a small plaster on her neck. Buffy eyes a timetable. "Science, yeah, cheerleading, yeah, compulsory sword practice... _Giles_! Who drew up this thing?" ArchDean, in a cool fury, to a squad of fairly obvious Malakim in mufti, "I ask you to do one simple little thing. Remove the prophesied avatar of Saminga." She waves a sheaf of paper. "Should I remind you that this will go on your performance reviews? And _who_ ate my donuts?" Narrator : It's not easy, being a woman... Buffy dangles by one ankle from the hand of someone big, burly, and blond - yes, it's the Archangel David in a corporeal Vessel - and flails at him with a stake. David : "Needs work on the backhand." Willow, sitting at the computer, with a crowd of body-by-Andre Lilims leaning over her shoulders. One says, eagerly, "Look, if you can get us the latest photos of him from the Sword Website, we'll all owe you one..." Blond Seraph from earlier scene is carried off over the shoulder of a vampire, beating on its back with her fists. "I'm a Seraph of Dominic! You can't do this to me!" Narrator : ... but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. Buffy gives a blank-eyed and clutching Xander a straight uppercut. Willow : (in tones of horror) "What do you mean, Saminga's not on the Internet?" ArchDean, to Buffy, "So you want to be a Slayer. No problems there. Any particular specialisations?" Narrator : It's a countdown to midnight. Giles, in the library, waving several heavy books, "It only happens once every thousand years. All the clocks on the Clock Tower strike midnight at the same moment. The forces of Hell are unleashed, the avatar of Saminga strides forth, vampires swarm the living." One female vampire to another, in a misty graveyard : "So how many Malakim do we need for this sacrifice?" Buffy, to Malakite, "You're an angel?" Malakite, preening slightly, "It shows, doesn't it." Buffy, frowning, "Yeah. Nobody else gets _that_ retro." Narrator : And when the clock strikes twelve... Buffy acrobatically fighting a mess of vampires. Giles frantically flipping through the pages of a book, as some big squishy shadow falls across him. Xander and Willow looking confident. Xander saying to a group which clearly has several celestial participants, "We're used to handling the supernatural. Just let us take care of this." Gabrielite cheerleader practice, with green fluffy pompoms, in the gymnasium. "SMITE SMITE SMITE!" Buffy dangling from rope and pitons, halfway up the clock-tower. The hands are close to midnight on all the clocks. Narrator : ... everything stops. ArchDean, surveying class which includes a bored Buffy, Willow, and Xander. "But nothing excuses late library books." IN NOMINE : BUFFY GOES TO IOU Voiceover from Buffy : "So, what does the O stand for already?" - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:53:00 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: IN History From: Earl Wajenberg > >Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > >> :) In my game, there are many other intelligent races in the Universe. >> None of the others succumbed to temptation the way Adam and Eve did, >> though. Mankind is the only species that is fallen. >... >> It also explains the Fermi paradox -- other sentient races regard the >> prospect of contact with humanity in much the same way you or I would >> look forward to a dinner date with Charles Manson. :) > >All this sounds very reminiscent of the speculations of C. S. Lewis >in an essay from the late '50s or early '60s, entitled, I think, >"Religion and Rocketry," in which he talks about the theology of >extraterrestrial life. His general conclusion is that it is certainly >nothing to challenge Christian faith and compares modern speculation >about the theology of aliens to medieval speculation about the >theology of fairies. This isn't terribly surprising, since I have been reading truly vast amounts of Lewis for my In Nomine campaign. (Though not that essay or the Space Trilogy, just yet. Do you know an in-print collection which contains "Religion and Rocketry"?) If I can wildly oversimplify, the design principle for my In Nomine game is C.S. Lewis versus William Blake. C.S. Lewis's rationalism and caution make an excellent contrast to the esctatic mysticism and anti-rationalism of Blake. (Which is not to say that angels aren't mystical and demons can't be cold-hearted, obviously.) >> In my game, there is the archangel Jerah, angel of the Moon. She >> entered Celestial politics in 1969, after these disgusting little >> Fallen humans came and *crawled all over her lovely moon*. Sadly, >> she has no Servitors, since she has no interest in increasing her >> dealings with man. > >Also reminiscent of Lewis, this time of the angelic spirits that >steer the planets around their orbits in his Space Trilogy. Well, we probably both were inspired by the same medieval speculations. Of course, my Ofanim also keep electrons obeying wave equations in addition to keeping planets in their orbits, and race cars on the tracks. >Jerah may find it expedient to acquire/make some servitors, if >humans start setting up bases on her sphere. She hasn't had to deal, yet. Mostly she is planned as a bit of comic relief for the PCs. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:52:26 -0500 From: TOC Subject: Re: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] Emily Dresner wrote: > > > "Did God Destroy the Dinosaurs", a religious pamphlet by Damien > > Royce & Jason Zolot. Basic theory - Dinosaurs were _evil_, created by > > Satan to ruin Paradise. Not only were the dinosaurs evil monsters, but > > many demons took on dinosaur form in order to run amok. Satan himself > > was "a gigantic multi-headed winged sea dragon". > King Ghidorah! Hmmm. In Nomine: Destroy All Monsters... I'll get back to you on this one. I _must_ have this pamphlet. Does anyone know where to get it? Rev.TOC - -- The Reverend "The Other Chris" Not Subbie...Not Dommie...Just Pervy UIN # 4814586 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:10:50 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine movie trailer >IN NOMINE : BUFFY GOES TO IOU Right. This would make more sense if I knew who Buffy is. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:46:53 -0500 (EST) From: Wildcard Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine movie trailer On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Jesse wrote: > >IN NOMINE : BUFFY GOES TO IOU > > Right. This would make more sense if I knew who Buffy is. Buffy as in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"-- specifically, Buffy from the television series, not the original movie... look up "Buffy" and "Sarah Michelle Gellar" on the Web and be somewhat enlightened, I guess. :) Janice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:05:49 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Lair's Paradox At 16:51 30/01/98 -0500, you wrote: >>(Incidentally -- does a Seraph generate dissonance by speaking the >>Liar's Paradox, i.e. "This statement is false"? What about a Balseraph? >>Can this not-true not-false assertion be framed in the angelic tongue?) > >I'd give out a note of dissonance to either of them on the theory that >neither God nor Lucifer likes a smartass... > I'd let it pass, on the grounds that they perfectly well know the statement has no meaning. Then I'd send them all off to do advanced classes in predicate logic. jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:23:02 EST From: Heretic103@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> God, Satan & Dinosaurs...[FLUFF] In a message dated 98-01-30 23:44:31 EST, you write: << I automatically buy any theory which uses the words 'run amok'. >> AMOK!, AMOK!, AMOK!, AMOK! ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #605 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.