From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Oct 9 10:15:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27963 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:15:44 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA07040 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:55:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:55:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199810091455.JAA07040@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #971 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, October 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 971 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin IN> Re: IN- Mortals using Songs IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces RE: IN> Freewill, Damnation Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation IN> Re: IN- Shedites of the Game IN> New combat idea Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation IN> Tethers (Re: In Nomine Berlin) Re: IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> Re: IN- Mortals using Songs IN> IN Phoenix Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith Re: IN> IN Phoenix IN> New rules for Impudities. IN> Shedim Re: IN> Shedim Re: IN> Re: IN- Mortals using Songs Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Re: IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Re: IN> Shedim Re: IN> Shedim Re: IN> New rules for Impudities. IN> musings Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith (supplemental) Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith (supplemental) IN> Re: IN- New rules for Impudities. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:40:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin At 4:45 PM +0200 10/7/98, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I am planning on starting an angelic campaign in Berlin, Germany. I was >wondering if anyone has developed this place already? There's a Freedom-Tether, according to the material in the Lilith writeup in _Fall of the Malakim_, and its caretaker (Tahapenes, Free Lilim) is one of the sample characters. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:34:38 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Mortals using Songs >>>So, oh In Nomine canon masters, what is the philsophical reasoning behind this? Why can't any mortal learn any song of any sphere?<<< >For the same reason most mortals don't have any kind of conscious access to >the ethereal or celestial planes. Being entirely corporeal beings, they >lack the fundamental connection to the higher planes it requires to perform >Songs in those realms. It requires a Superior, altering their nature, to >grant them such a connection. > >-David Oh, yeah. Hadn't thought of that. Wait a minute... But everyone has forces of each sphere, that sounds like connection to me. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:00:21 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces > >Perry Lloyd wrote: >> Can ONLY the Impudites take essence out of someone? Couldn't a >> Celestial be able to just rip essence out of someone? > > Only impudites, in general, have that ability. >Superiors have it as well and, possibly, there are >little-known powers that Theft might grant. Maybe >a Song or Artifact as well. There's no universe-specific >reason why EVERY celestial should be able to do it, IMO. Phooey... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:11:40 -0400 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> Freewill, Damnation Hart, Joanna wonders: >It's always been left a bit fuzzy as to what the criteria are for a mortal >to end up in Hell and I'm curious as to how other people see this. Could >someone be damned as a result of something they were forced to do by a >Shedite or a Lilim? (Could be any other sort of demon too, but those are the >ones who can force someone to do something against their will that they >would never have done otherwise). > >I'm thinking that this would indeed be the default, which is one of the >reasons that the angels of final judgement need to be fairly alert to people >who were forced into evil but still retain a fair amount of good. (OTOH, I >can't believe that anyone with even the faintest spark of good will be >plucked out by those angels because if they were.. how many mortal souls >would ever get to hell? ) I'm not sure, I think this sort of thing will have to rise from each player's personal perspective. (Given that we all have different backgrounds and religious training (or lack thereof), I think for there to be Canon on going to Heaven or Hell would be a mistake.) However, my personal perspective? I'd like to think that anybody with a spark of good goes to Heaven, but I don't think that that's true in the IN world. IMC, I default towards Heaven (given my belief that humanity is fundamentally "good"), and so, I use the following rules to determine where their soul goes: (1) Destiny or Fate. (Or which did the dead guy come closer to reaching?) (2) General trend of actions during the last few years of his life (not necessarily Destiny or Fate, because Ofanim break all sorts of laws and you'll note that they don't Fall, en mass). (3) Shedite posetion. I think that so long that the person was willing to suffer through punishment at the hands of the human race, he would go to Heaven. If you just kill yourself, as the INC talks about, then IMC, you go to Hell. Hope this helps. Matt. [Angel of Weird Ideas, servant of Eli, kind of kicking it for now.] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:04:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation At 9:30 AM +0100 10/8/98, Hart, Joanna wrote: >It's always been left a bit fuzzy as to what the criteria are for a mortal >to end up in Hell and I'm curious as to how other people see this. Could >someone be damned as a result of something they were forced to do by a >Shedite or a Lilim? In both cases, the mechanics suggest not -- the human tries to resist (or doesn't!), and if they tried, then they really didn't *want* to do that. It's not selfish. From a more fuzzy view, it depends on how much the person *got into* the actions. Did they rationalize them? Did they resist them with a part of their mind screaming the whole way? Did they *enjoy* doing that? Would they do it again if not forced...? Do they TRULY repent at the last, as the Shedite leaves them dying from the police sniper's bullet...? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:16:08 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation "Hart, Joanna" wrote: > >It's always been left a bit fuzzy as to what the criteria are for a mortal >to end up in Hell and I'm curious as to how other people see this. Could >someone be damned as a result of something they were forced to do by a >Shedite or a Lilim? (Could be any other sort of demon too, but those are the >ones who can force someone to do something against their will that they >would never have done otherwise). In my game, a Lilim needs to explicitly make an offer, and the person she deals with must explicitly accept. Ergo people are guilty of any sins they commit as a result of a Geas. Shedim, OTOH, don't work that way. IMC, a Shedite who possesses a person forces them out of their body and into their dreamscape. However, the separation isn't as good as what Kyriotates can manage, and the possessed human's dreamscape is a nightmare version of whatever the Shedite happens to be perceiving. (This bleed works in both directions; it's how Shedim are able to tap the memories of the possessed.) So acts committed while possessed fall to the Shedite's account, not the victim's. But it's a rather unpleasant experience all the same, and best to be avoided. :) I haven't yet decided about the Habbalah -- it seems reasonable that they can drive someone into a homicidal rage, after all. Likewise with Balseraphs. I'm leaning towards the "you do it, you're guilty" angle, because it's much less goopy and plenty of people IRL have done evil under the influence of some ideology or passion. >I'm thinking that this would indeed be the default, which is one of the >reasons that the angels of final judgement need to be fairly alert to people >who were forced into evil but still retain a fair amount of good. (OTOH, I >can't believe that anyone with even the faintest spark of good will be >plucked out by those angels because if they were.. how many mortal souls >would ever get to hell? ) I run things a lot like Earl does, except that IMC it's still possible for a soul abandoned in the Marches to make his or her way back to Heaven. (The ballad of true Thomas is kind of what it's like.) The angels of Judgement standing at the gates of Hell are as much there to remind the Fallen that they too are subject to the omnipotent will of God as anything else. - -- Neel Krishnswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:28:41 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Shedites of the Game "Fallen" with Denzel Washington "But I'm not done having fun yet!" >>The IPG also discusses how Shedim can *ooze* from one host to the next with >>physical contact, and this makes no Symphonic disturbance. I don't know >>about everyone else, but that creeps me out to no end. > >Oh yes. Wasn't there at least one movie about this recently? I remember >the trailers, but not the title. Bart Hammerly "Time is the fire in which we burn." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:27:29 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: IN> New combat idea Without totally re-writing the In Nomine combat rules (not that I view that as a BAD idea, mind you), I tried to come up with a way to speed things along. The main sticking point seems to be the amount of body hits a celestial character can have compared the, typical, amount of damage characters can do. The three ways to get around this is to lower the hits, raise the damage, or to make hitting more likely. I'm going to fool around with the damage. Divide conflicts into three categories: Standard, Challenge, or Action. Stardard scenes use the typical In Nomine rules for damage until they slip over into a... Challenge scene. Anytime a character is _openly_ using supernatural powers (or when the GM decides to pick up the pace a bit), all CDs for damage are doubled. The characters are upping the ante for the scene. The doubling only applies to Essence controlling charactes that are willing to pull out their special abilities openly (even if they are only using mundane attacks). Pretty much you are standing up and saying, "Hey, I'm from Somewhere Else!" Muting Disturbance with Roles is not allowed. Action scenes are when the GM thinks that things need to move QUICKLY. All CDs for damage are tripled for supernatural characters. Normals get mowed down like wheat and even celestial characters are getting chewed up pretty badly. Dodges are assumed to be automatically successful with a CD equal to the TN/3 or are disallowed entirely. All doublings/triplings are before any automatic success bonuses and only affect CORPOREAL damage attacks. Only supernatural characters (angels, demons, soldiers, ethereals, etc.) qualify for the damage boost. The GM should inform the players when a scene has shifted so that the proper level of tension is achieved. ;) The way this works is that, most of the time, the standard rules apply. An angel might take down a mugger (and possibly even have some difficultly with it) limited to 'normal' abilities. Suddenly, two soldiers of Hell appear and the angel ups the ante and socks one with a Song. Suddenly, everything has gotten more tense in the alley! As Soldiers, they can do the doubled damage as well as the angel. Things are still dicey, but the angel manages to take them down just as they superior comes around the corner with an evil grin and a flaming sword made of the bones of humans who have been burnt to death. The angel wisely retreats at this point, knowing that the previously-sustained damage might be enough to tip the scales in a _serious_ conflict. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:43:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation At 1:49 PM -0400 10/8/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >>[...] the angels of final judgement need to be fairly alert to people >>who were forced into evil but still retain a fair amount of good. > >They may just be there as a contingency gesture -- the actual process by >which humans are sorted out to Heaven, Hell, and reincarnation may be >totally opaque to the Superiors. The Archangels may just be hedging >their bets that whatever mechanism is there actually works right all the >time. I have sometimes wondered if perhaps they're there on Lucifer's sufferance. He wants the numbers of damned to be known to Heaven, and he wants those damned to be there *of their own Free Will*. The angels can have the "good" ones and keep accurate count. So he can point to the tallies and say, "Well, well, well, looks like we're running 3 damned for every blessed. And you still say the little monkeys are worthwhile?" So one reason they can't be moved is that Lucifer doesn't *want* them moved... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:32:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Tethers (Re: In Nomine Berlin) At 3:48 PM +0200 10/8/98, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: >> The Tethers book (currently just ended playtest) does have a number of >> European Tethers listed, including the main angelic one at Notre Dame. > >Do you know when this will be out? It's in production. I figure at *least* 3 months or so. (It needs art and layout, to be shipped to the printers, etc.) Mind you, that's *FUZZY*. I don't know the process well enough, and there might be last minute emergencies ("What do you *mean* the shuggoth ate the cover art??") that would delay it. >How common are Tethers anyway? That's a GM call, actually. I think default tends to make at least 1-2 crop up within range of most large cities, if not more... >Do the Infernals have any major tethers? Yes. >Transylvania perhaps? I think one is mentioned as an "Other Tethers" one-sentencer. >Well, I guess most of these things will be revealed in the upcoming >product, still it would be nice to know how many tethers it would be >reasonable to find in..say Berlin. Probably at least as many as in Austin or LA? (_Night Music_ and _Fall of the Malakim_, respectively...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:21:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A couple of questions At 6:57 AM -0500 10/8/98, Eeyore wrote: >1) Is the list of Habbalite emotional effects in the core rulebook all >there is, or are they merely examples of what Habbalah can do? I'd lean >towards the latter and say that they can inflict a wide range of >emotions, except that the attunement for Habbalah of Greed is a "special >effect". They're examples, which the GM can use to determine the effects of other emotions. (Also check some of the Sophisticated Uses of Resonance in the Infernal Player's Guide...) Of course, if the GM wishes, the GM can say that they're the only ones that have any real effect. (In some fiction of mine, a Habbalite has used 'trust' to get a few seconds of someone acting sorta Impudite-charmed -- but that's fiction. However -- for more fiction, check out http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction.html and all of GR "Maya" Cogman's Caliah stories. >2) Does a celestial in a vessel suffer from physical exhaustion due to >exertion? They don't need to sleep, and the FAQ says that they do not >get tired, but it is unclear whether this means that they have no limit >to endurance. It's a little iffy right now. They certainly don't get tired as quickly as human -- I suspect that if they are doing something like walking-walking- walking, they don't get tired. If they're stressing themselves, like sprinting or lifting, they probably do. (Yes, I'm doing fuzzy canon there.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 18:47 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Mortals using Songs >> It requires a Superior, altering their nature, >to >>grant them such a connection. >> >>-David > >Oh, yeah. Hadn't thought of that. Wait a minute... But everyone has >forces of each sphere, that sounds like connection to me. Not enough of one... Humans can't go celestial, or to the celestial realm, for example, except by dying. Nor can they go to the Marches at will, and when there, they're normally stuck inside their dreamscape. The idea, I think, is that the attunement makes the other realms more of a "native" environment for humans. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:04:03 -0500 From: "James Bearse" Subject: IN> IN Phoenix As long as we're discussing campaign cities, does anyone have some ideas for tethers (both sides) in Phoenix, Arizona? jim-and-brandy@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:19:52 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith David Edelstein wrote: > >>>>(You know, what gets me is that I don't see any contradictions >between the story and the writeup... Am I really just that >convoluted?)<<< > >That's my own personal version, not the canonical one. But the canonical >Lilith in In Nomine could fit my version as well as the fluffier version. >The Lilith that's been appearing ever since is increasingly incompatible >with any campaign where the GM _doesn't_ want to make Lilith an anti-hero. That's been annoying me, too. Here's the quick description of Lilith from my campaign: "[Lilith] was Queen of the Gorgons, the Abbess of the Furies. She was Madonna of the Infernal Rivers, Matron of the City of Dis. The Goddess of Lamentation, Shadows, and Regret. Destroyer of Bloodlines, and the Sower of Poisons." (This is from Michael Marano's wonderfully overwritten _Dawn Song_, btw.) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 20:14:59 -0700 From: Gryph Clarke Subject: Re: IN> IN Phoenix I live in Tucson, so I'd do better with that city, but let me take a stab at Phoenix.... If I recall correctly, there's a big cats only "zoo" that rehabs them (called Out of Africa?)...Tether to Jordi? ASU is there as well...Sun Devils. ;) How about Sheriff Joe Arpaio's tent city at the prison? David perhaps, or Dominic. There's a sizeable swingers club up there that might make a lovely place for Andrealphus. The Superstition mountains aren't too far away, and have always been said to be haunted...that could be run with. Maybe Saminga. How about Fountain Hills? One of the world's largest fountains is there...it can be seen from miles and miles away. (My grandparents live in Payson, and on the drive up there, just outside of Apache Junction, we can see the fountain going off from the highway.) There's a bunch of little touristy shops there, a nice lake, ducks, a park, etc...Novalis might like it. Estrella Park is the site of a big SCA war every year...Baal/Michael/Lawrence? And there's a bit Ham Radio fest up on one of the mountains there (danged if I remember the name now...I think it starts with a B). Vapula might like that area, especially during the festival. If you drive southish an hour to Casa Grande, there are two huge outlet malls that Marc probably thinks are spiffy. And naturally, the Grand Canyon, multiple hours northward. Most of these probably aren't what you're looking for, quite, but I figured I'd brainstorm at you, since I'm close. :) - - Gryph James Bearse wrote: > As long as we're discussing campaign cities, does anyone have some ideas > for tethers (both sides) in Phoenix, Arizona? > > jim-and-brandy@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:54:50 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: IN> New rules for Impudities. I didn't think the rules to determine the essence of a human has remaining, in the middle of a crowd. That makes an Impudite usually find people empty of essence, or in the maximum with 2 points. I arranged a way to fix that problem, without leaving a larger probability of still to be empty. And a small one of full. And to think that a person gets his essence by noom, he will have more chaces to have at least 1 point. It is simple, roll 2d and subtract the higher from the lower, the diferece will be the amount of essence that the individual will have. Look at the comparison Chance of having essence Amount of essence Old New 0 12 in 36 6 in 36 1 6 in 36 10 in 36 2 6 in 36 8 in 36 3 none 6 in 36 4 none 4 in 36 5 none 2 in 36 Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:31:59 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: IN> Shedim Taking advantage of the debate on shedim, I would like to ask some questions: 1. In the song of possession, if the vessel is killed during the possession, the individual that is possessing suffers trauma? And the possessed? 2. Can a Shedite possess a body of a celestial? 3. Does Holy Bullets kill angels? And human beings? What would happen if a holy bullet is placed in an unholy pistol?? Can an unholy pistol be used by an angel? Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:04:57 -0700 From: Stephen Gingell Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Felipe Pereira wrote: > > Taking advantage of the debate on shedim, I would like to ask some > questions: > > 1. In the song of possession, if the vessel is killed during the > possession, the individual that is possessing suffers trauma? And the > possessed? > Not sure about that as far as cannon goes, but IMC I'd probably say both partys would be tramatised. > 2. Can a Shedite possess a body of a celestial? Nope. Here I refer you to the FAQ at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/#rule-demons-shedim-001 "Q: Can a Shedim possess a celestial or an animal? A: Shedim can only possess humans (In Nomine, p. 151)." > > 3. Does Holy Bullets kill angels? And human beings? What would happen if a > holy bullet is placed in an unholy pistol?? Can an unholy pistol be used by > an angel? > In short... Yes, only as much as a normal bullet does, nothing much, and yes. In detail... I base that off core rules page 71 (the bullet writeup is where you need to look, not the gun writeup...) Key phrases are "The ONLY difference between Holy and Unholy Bullets is that each MUST be fired from its respective kind of pistol." So yes, holy bullets kill angels just as easily as demons, matching gun to bullet is necessary, mismatches won't work, and anyone can use either be he angel, demon, mortal, or mongoose. the other key phrase being... "these bullets can damage a CELESTIALLY-GENERATED corporeal vessel" So no, they don't do the big damage against humans, just normal bullet damage. - -Stephen Gingell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:46:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Mortals using Songs I dimly recall from the IN main book that you can't use Songs until you're able to expend Essence consciously. Most mortals do so unconsciously. Soldiers can be taught to be aware of Essence expenditure; I don't know about us regular schmoes. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 13:57 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin >One more thing. You dont find heavily armed people around in Denmark. Not >all the time anyway? Yet, violence is fun. How do you find shoot-outs? Summonable corporeal artifacts (rules are in Liber Reliquarum) are good for this. They can be "pulled out of the air" only when needed, and sent back to non-existance immediately after a firefight. Lilim, in skin-tight jeans and T-shirt, "No, officer, I don't have a AK-47 hidden on me. Want to check?" Summonable corporeal artifacts cost about 5 points for level/1, if they take Essence to summon, and 8 points if they can be summoned without cost. (If I'm remembering the numbers right.... It can also vary with size, but guns aren't likely to be a problem.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 13:06 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A couple of questions >1) Is the list of Habbalite emotional effects in the core rulebook all >there is, or are they merely examples of what Habbalah can do? I've been assuming the latter. I think there may be some clarification on this in the IPG. >2) Does a celestial in a vessel suffer from physical exhaustion due to >exertion? They don't need to sleep, and the FAQ says that they do not >get tired, but it is unclear whether this means that they have no limit >to endurance. That's the way I've been playing it -- they don't get tired, period. Their bodies are sustained miraculously (hence no eating or sleeping), and this tends to imply the low-level biochemistry of fatigue would also be missing. In our games, sweating is also optional for celestials -- they don't overheat from exertion, either. As far as I know, none of this is actually canon except for the tiredness bit in the FAQ. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:01:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces At 3:00 PM -0500 10/8/98, Perry Lloyd wrote: >From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC >Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces >> >>Perry Lloyd wrote: >>> Can ONLY the Impudites take essence out of someone? Couldn't a >>> Celestial be able to just rip essence out of someone? [...] >>There's no universe-specific >>reason why EVERY celestial should be able to do it, IMO. > >Phooey... So do a house rule in your own game! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 01:45:59 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Freewill, Damnation Walter Milliken wrote: > > >It's always been left a bit fuzzy as to what the criteria are for a mortal > >to end up in Hell and I'm curious as to how other people see this. > > I think the canon answer (from the core book) is that people who reach > their Fate go to Hell, and people who reach their Destiny go to Heaven. > (For those who do both, it's probably the latest one that counts....) > > Those who reach neither are either recycled or dissipated. Not exactly, AFAIK. Those that reach their Fate or Destiny have a guaranteed destination, but those that were just generally good or evil can make it to Heaven or Hell (or reincarnate or dissipate, as you mentioned). So _few_ people reach their Fate or Destiny, IMO, both heaven and hell would be somewhat lacking in souls to process! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 01:49:12 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Walter Milliken wrote: > > >One more thing. You dont find heavily armed people around in Denmark. Not > >all the time anyway? Yet, violence is fun. How do you find shoot-outs? > > Summonable corporeal artifacts (rules are in Liber Reliquarum) are good > for this. They can be "pulled out of the air" only when needed, and > sent back to non-existance immediately after a firefight. > > Lilim, in skin-tight jeans and T-shirt, "No, officer, I don't have a > AK-47 hidden on me. Want to check?" > > Summonable corporeal artifacts cost about 5 points for level/1, if they > take Essence to summon, and 8 points if they can be summoned without > cost. (If I'm remembering the numbers right.... It can also vary with > size, but guns aren't likely to be a problem.) You got it, bwana. Summonable things are neat in general, but they were put in the book _specifically_ to make Corporeal Artifacts more fun and useful. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 02:01:14 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Felipe Pereira wrote: > > Taking advantage of the debate on shedim, I would like to ask some > questions: > > 1. In the song of possession, if the vessel is killed during the > possession, the individual that is possessing suffers trauma? And the > possessed? The possessed (if human) goes whereever the GM decides is most fitting. Due to the rather unusual nature of their death, the GM could do lots of fun stuff with them. A lost soul in the Marches? A ghost on Earth? Lots of fun stuff can be done here. If the possessed was a celestial (i.e. the body was a vessel), then they feel the loss wherever they are, but suffer no other ill effects than the loss of the vessel. The possesser, OTOH, is in a weirder state. For game balance reasons, there should be a severe penalty for this trick (cogitates at length). There are three paths open: They bounce back to their bodies, scott free. For both game balance and other reasons, I'm rejecting this one. They get discord/death for their foolish stunt. This is pretty harsh, yes, but not out of line for what their poor victim suffered! They get some other penalty. This is the one I like... about three levels of Discord (probably ethereal) assigned by the GM, plus they are trapped in the vicinity of the body in celestial form until the end of the Song. > 2. Can a Shedite possess a body of a celestial? Nope. Humans only. > > 3. Does Holy Bullets kill angels? And human beings? What would happen if a > holy bullet is placed in an unholy pistol?? Can an unholy pistol be used by > an angel? Yes, if the damage is high enough! Human beings only take normal bullet damage. The ammo has to match the gun. Angels can use unholy pistols and vice-versa. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:37:48 -0700 From: Stephen Gingell Subject: Re: IN> Shedim > Felipe Pereira wrote: > > > > Taking advantage of the debate on shedim, I would like to ask some > > questions: > > > > 1. In the song of possession, if the vessel is killed during the > > possession, the individual that is possessing suffers trauma? And the > > possessed? Just remembered something, THIS HAPPENS IN DARK DREAM! Do stories count as cannon? If so it seems that, for the possessor at least, there are no ill effects, Marcus just snapped back to his waiting body (and a nice cold brew), with no ill effects (dissonance, discord) mentioned and certainly no trauma. Doesn't say what happened to Adam though... - -Stephen Gingell, the Angel of Words in .sig Files ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:29:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> New rules for Impudities. On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Felipe Pereira wrote: > I didn't think the rules to determine the essence of a human has remaining, > in the middle of a crowd. That makes an Impudite usually find people empty > of essence, or in the maximum with 2 points. > I arranged a way to fix that problem, without leaving a larger probability > of still to be empty. And a small one of full. And to think that a person > gets his essence by noom, he will have more chaces to have at least 1 point. > > It is simple, roll 2d and subtract the higher from the lower, the diferece > will be the amount of essence that the individual will have. Hmm...yeah, I like your way better. It's a little too generous, still, but more playable than the current rule. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 03:12:07 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> musings Hey-hey! Thanks for clearing up the Shedim question. To Sam Kington - i wanna knwo more about your campaign, it sounds like my cup of tea! *Nybbas TV, eh. So that would become NTV, OMIGOD! (if you'e english you'll know wot i mean - and fear it!)* >(Sometimes it seems like there are more .uk addresses than US people here....) Heh! You've just gotta read Good Omens to find out why; british humour is so appropriate for this game! Makes me wonder what types of celestials the Young Ones would make? (Setting up another meaningless thread!) Neil - Seraph of Flowers. Mike (the cool person) - Balseraph of Lust Rik - Ofanim of Stone (the better to bring down 'the bloody tories'!) Vivian ('isn't that a girls name?') - Calabim of Belial! That was fun! If you're interested in eurostuff, London in particular, email me and ill sned you my Word file (97 format). someone here has already pasted it on his website but i cant remember his address - mayber he'll stop by and remind me! I would love info on Berlin setting, especially before the Wall came down! It always evoked such a strong atmosphere, all that cold war, spy imagery. (From Russia with Flowers!) >The Tethers book (currently just ended playtest) does have a number of >European Tethers listed, including the main angelic one at Notre Dame. Please sir, does it have anythiong specificlly for London? Now, let me share with you the scariest thing ever to come from the outh of a player...in discussing ideas for a demon character in my upcoming campaign, the player (who was interested in The Game) decided it would be 'fun' to play Asmodeus himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I proceeded to explain why (not least of all because everyone else would have no chance, and every time he blinked there would be a disturbance the size of Krakatoa!). i then said that Asmodeus' agents have very high role/status levels, joking about being Bill Gates, and how he's the antichrist! He then wanted to play Bill Gates! Then i left! Anyone else suffer similar problems - maybe we can form a support group! Marnie - playing the 'may i help you riff!' ICQ on 19005332... 'Men plan, God laughs' ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:04:38 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith >Lilith has gotten a lot of whitewashing in recent supplements. Her original >writeup in the rulebook left enough ambiguity that one could present her as >being evil and selfish and nasty, or honorable and somewhat sympathetic >with just a hint of a mean streak, whichever one prefers. >Since then, though, almost everything published referring to Lilith and her >actions and her personality has leaned heavily away from suggesting she'd >ever do anything truly evil, with all the "bad" things she's done being >blamed entirely on the fact that she simply has to maintain a certain quota >to stay in Hell's good graces. Do you not think that it's maybe inevitable that as soon as anything in a game universe gets expanded, it's likely to move away from your personal model, unless the author is on exactly the same wavelength that you are...? I mean, it'd be great if all the authors were on my wavelength (we'd be able to save time and money by just transmitting stuff to each other through the ether), and I am sure that some of them are, but I still see stuff that makes me think 'No, NIMG,' or 'No, because I have a better idea.' jo (Don't worry. I'm not going to say a word about Lilith! :) ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:28:34 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith (supplemental) >The emphasis has been on her "coolness" factor, and she's emerged as a sort >of rebellious, pro-independence and free will, pseudo-feminist icon. True, Beleth is a much better role model, you never see her apologising for being a hard bitch ;-) jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:39:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Lilith (supplemental) For yet another look at Lilith, there's the fantasy novel "Lilith" by Victorian fantasist George MacDonald. In the novel, we meet Adam and Eve as well as Lilith. We see Lilith pitted against children quite clearly. It's a very good novel, but it would be hard to In-Nominate it. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:54:14 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Re: IN- New rules for Impudities. >> I didn't think the rules to determine the essence of a human has remaining, >> in the middle of a crowd. That makes an Impudite usually find people empty >> of essence, or in the maximum with 2 points. >> I arranged a way to fix that problem, without leaving a larger probability >> of still to be empty. And a small one of full. And to think that a person >> gets his essence by noom, he will have more chaces to have at least 1 point. >> >> It is simple, roll 2d and subtract the higher from the lower, the diferece >> will be the amount of essence that the individual will have. > >Hmm...yeah, I like your way better. It's a little too generous, still, but >more playable than the current rule. Generous? It still averages out to 2 1/18 (call it 2). Besides, knowing humans as we all do, is it hard to imagine some people that don't make that extra effort? Bart Hammerly Calabim of Fire "Time is the fire in which we burn." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #971 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.